March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

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March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by BRoI » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:11 pm

The following text is take from a document in the files of the British Political Warfare Executive. It's found in a collection called "come backs", which was where the PWE recorded details of what they suspected to have been "echoes" of the fake rumours they had created and put into circulation.

A few things to bear in mind:

1. The nazis had been gassing the insane
2. The British had heard reports that the nazis were gassing the insane
3. The British were not then convinced the reports were true
4. The British had already spread at least one rumour about nazis gassing their insane

The date of this propaganda broadcast is not specified, but other items mentioned on the same document suggest that it was on or before Sunday, 23 March 1941:
Parody of B.B.C. talk from Bremen in English.

ANNOUNCER: Well, first of all we had to pave the way for the idea. We spread the rumour over the B.B.C. that the Germans were doing away with all their mental defectives by polishing them off with gas. The rumour caught on splendidly. In fact we managed to plant the idea on an obscure American paper in San Francisco. Having once started the (report?) we were able to quote the newspaper as an authority, and the Catholic Church as well. The Catholic Church, old boy. Just think of that.

NOEL BAKER: An excellent notion. Ha. Ha. Ha. A grand idea! A propaganda scoop in fact. Ha. Ha. Ha.

ANNOUNCER: And having paved the way with this scoop this is what we are finally putting over in German: "The American newspaper 'Monitor' appearing in San Francisco hes investigated the rumours for doing away with mental defectives in Germany. According to special sources of information which, owing to her world-wide influence, are accessible to the Catholic Church, the cruel extermination of mental defectives in Germany is continuing. According to reliable estimates there were some 100,000 persons said to have been killed off in this way. The excuse advanced for these measures is that these persons are a burden on the community. The first experiments were made in Graefenburg, near Noodling and in Wuerttemburg. The unfortunate victims were transported in motor-coaches, the windows of which were painted black, and then accommodated in special huts. They were exposed to poisonous gases. Such huts exist now all over Germany. It is presumed that after the murder of all mental defectives it will be the turn of the Homes for the Aged".

In the post script to the parody the atrocity stories are denied.

N.B. Since this broadcast is in the German service to England, it should not be read as ridicule of the rumour but as an attempt to discredit it in England.
- FO 898/78, p.151.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:28 pm

I think you had to be there.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Hans » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Some Nazis were scared as hell of leakage of their atrocities reaching foreign broadcasts that this contributed significantly that they refrained from systematically gassing incurable tuberculosis sick Poles:
"There can be no doubt of the intended program's being the most simple and most radical solution. If absolute secrecy could be guaranteed, all scruples, regardless of what nature, could be overcome. But I consider simply maintaining secrecy impossible. Experience has taught that this assumption is true. Should these sick persons, having been brought as planned to the old Reich supposedly to be treated or healed actually never return, the relatives of these sick persons, in spite of the greatest secrecy, would some day notice "that something was not quite right." One must take into consideration that there are many Polish workers in the old Reich who will inquire as to the where abouts of their relatives; that there are a certain number of Germans related to or allied by marriage with Poles who could in this way learn of the transports of the sick. Very soon more definite news of this program would leak out, which would be taken up by enemy propaganda. The Euthanasia Program taught in which manner this was done and which methods were used. This new program could be better used politically as it concerns persons of a subjugated nation. The church will not remain silent either. Nor will people stop at discussing this program. Certain interested circles will spread the rumor among the people that similar methods are also to be used in the future on German consumptives. Yes, that one can count on more or less all incurably ill being done away with in the future. In connection with this, I recall the recurring recent foreign broadcasts in connection with the appointment of Prof. Brandt as Commissioner General, spreading the news that he was ordered to attend as little as possible to the healing of the seriously sick, instead all the more to the healing of the less sick. And there are more than enough people who listen to illegal broadcasts."
(Letter from Kurt Blome to Arthur Greiser of 18 November 1942, NO-250)

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by blastikus » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:49 am

BRoI wrote:The following text is take from a document in the files of the British Political Warfare Executive. It's found in a collection called "come backs", which was where the PWE recorded details of what they suspected to have been "echoes" of the fake rumours they had created and put into circulation.

A few things to bear in mind:

1. The nazis had been gassing the insane
2. The British had heard reports that the nazis were gassing the insane
3. The British were not then convinced the reports were true
4. The British had already spread at least one rumour about nazis gassing their insane

The date of this propaganda broadcast is not specified, but other items mentioned on the same document suggest that it was on or before Sunday, 23 March 1941:
Parody of B.B.C. talk from Bremen in English.

ANNOUNCER: Well, first of all we had to pave the way for the idea. We spread the rumour over the B.B.C. that the Germans were doing away with all their mental defectives by polishing them off with gas. The rumour caught on splendidly. In fact we managed to plant the idea on an obscure American paper in San Francisco. Having once started the (report?) we were able to quote the newspaper as an authority, and the Catholic Church as well. The Catholic Church, old boy. Just think of that.

NOEL BAKER: An excellent notion. Ha. Ha. Ha. A grand idea! A propaganda scoop in fact. Ha. Ha. Ha.

ANNOUNCER: And having paved the way with this scoop this is what we are finally putting over in German: "The American newspaper 'Monitor' appearing in San Francisco hes investigated the rumours for doing away with mental defectives in Germany. According to special sources of information which, owing to her world-wide influence, are accessible to the Catholic Church, the cruel extermination of mental defectives in Germany is continuing. According to reliable estimates there were some 100,000 persons said to have been killed off in this way. The excuse advanced for these measures is that these persons are a burden on the community. The first experiments were made in Graefenburg, near Noodling and in Wuerttemburg. The unfortunate victims were transported in motor-coaches, the windows of which were painted black, and then accommodated in special huts. They were exposed to poisonous gases. Such huts exist now all over Germany. It is presumed that after the murder of all mental defectives it will be the turn of the Homes for the Aged".

In the post script to the parody the atrocity stories are denied.

N.B. Since this broadcast is in the German service to England, it should not be read as ridicule of the rumour but as an attempt to discredit it in England.
- FO 898/78, p.151.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:11 am

Friedrich Kellner, diarist from Laubauch, a small town in Germany north of Frankfurt, evidently was hearing rumors about T-4 "euthanasia" killings by June 1941. On the 10th he wrote about an "increase" in the "notifications about deaths in the mental care facility at Hadamar," a little over an hour west of Laubach. He had heard that incurable patients were being taken to Hadamar and that, in addition, the facility was going to build a crematorium. (p 117)

Kellner felt that the rumors of mass murder of "incurable" patients were confirmed, to his satisfaction ("The mental hospitals have become murder centers"), by late July, when, according to his diary, a family he knew of took their son from a mental institution, bringing him back home. Some time after the family did this, they "received a letter from the sanatorium informing them their son had died and his cremated ashes were being sent to them!" Kellner concluded that somehow the son's removal from the institution had not been recorded and thus his name was on the "death list": "From that oversight, the intended and premeditated murder came to light." (p 133)
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:30 pm

This is my comment so I can follow along.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:08 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Opposi ... ch_Kellner

Sadly the movie deviates from the facts as we notice in the first couple of lines from this writeup. The grandson didn't go searching for the diary, he was given it by his grandfather.

As with the Schlindler's List story, the movie becomes a work of fiction because it strays from the facts. Then somebody tries to promote the facts and they fall victim to the deniers who are sitting ready to pounce. I suspect that the error I've pointed out here is not the only one in the movie.

This entire story has taken too long to see the light of day and it's only due to Bush1's efforts we seen it now.

Hollywood, or whoever made this movie, must stick to the facts and not embellish their stories.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Denying-History » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:15 pm

No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 am

Denying-History wrote:No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
I mentioned the film and I think it matters. Embellishing holocaust claims with lied, no matter who is telling the lies, subtracts from the cedibility of the holocaust promotion side.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:30 am

montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
I mentioned the film and I think it matters. Embellishing holocaust claims with lied, no matter who is telling the lies, subtracts from the cedibility of the holocaust promotion side.
Its literally a film, not a historical work. Media of this sort is allowed some form of artistic license. Lol Like you cannot be {!#%@} serious right now... Film is a synthetic art and doesn't always follow reality or its source material on all steps. What matters is if the film works.

As for the "cedibility [sic] of the holocaust promotion side" film has no relevance unless for example it contains the interviews of SS Guards or Prisoners. Which at that point it would probably be a documentary rather then a movie.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:34 am

There is no "holocaust promotion side", D-H. How could it have said cedibility? :-P
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:50 am

Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
I mentioned the film and I think it matters. Embellishing holocaust claims with lied, no matter who is telling the lies, subtracts from the cedibility of the holocaust promotion side.
Its literally a film, not a historical work. Media of this sort is allowed some form of artistic license. Lol Like you cannot be {!#%@} serious right now... Film is a synthetic art and doesn't always follow reality or its source material on all steps. What matters is if the film works.

As for the "cedibility [sic] of the holocaust promotion side" film has no relevance unless for example it contains the interviews of SS Guards or Prisoners. Which at that point it would probably be a documentary rather then a movie.
Seems astonishing you would have to even explain that.... Welcome to the "new & improved" tenor of the subforum. :roll:

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:53 am

scrmbldggs wrote:There is no "holocaust promotion side", D-H. How could it have said cedibility? :-P

:) Scare quotes are a beautiful thing.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:55 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
I mentioned the film and I think it matters. Embellishing holocaust claims with lied, no matter who is telling the lies, subtracts from the cedibility of the holocaust promotion side.
Its literally a film, not a historical work. Media of this sort is allowed some form of artistic license. Lol Like you cannot be {!#%@} serious right now... Film is a synthetic art and doesn't always follow reality or its source material on all steps. What matters is if the film works.

As for the "cedibility [sic] of the holocaust promotion side" film has no relevance unless for example it contains the interviews of SS Guards or Prisoners. Which at that point it would probably be a documentary rather then a movie.
Seems astonishing you would have to even explain that.... Welcome to the "new & improved" tenor of the subforum. :roll:
:P Thankfully I will probably put them on ignore. Lol Like {!#%@} hell I didn't ask for another Bobbo.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:01 am

All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:12 am

Denying-History wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:No one mentioned the film... Nor does it matter.
I mentioned the film and I think it matters. Embellishing holocaust claims with lied, no matter who is telling the lies, subtracts from the cedibility of the holocaust promotion side.
Its literally a film, not a historical work. Media of this sort is allowed some form of artistic license. Lol Like you cannot be {!#%@} serious right now... Film is a synthetic art and doesn't always follow reality or its source material on all steps. What matters is if the film works.

As for the "cedibility [sic] of the holocaust promotion side" film has no relevance unless for example it contains the interviews of SS Guards or Prisoners. Which at that point it would probably be a documentary rather then a movie.
Seems astonishing you would have to even explain that.... Welcome to the "new & improved" tenor of the subforum. :roll:
:P Thankfully I will probably put them on ignore. Lol Like {!#%@} hell I didn't ask for another Bobbo.
Ignore works, mostly... reduces the chaff by about 75%. I dusted four yesterday and it makes for a more pleasant reading.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Denying-History » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:13 am

montgomery wrote:All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!
Schindlers list never advertised itself as a documentary... It was a Historical Drama.

Currently you are posting spam actually by your standards, this is unrelated to the thread.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:19 am

Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!
Schindlers list never advertised itself as a documentary... It was a Historical Drama.

Currently you are posting spam actually by your standards, this is unrelated to the thread.
This is an example of where the ignore function fails through the quote function here.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:24 am

Denying-History wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:There is no "holocaust promotion side", D-H. How could it have said cedibility? :-P

:) Scare quotes are a beautiful thing.
They didn't look very scary, they looked more "quoty". :beee:
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:21 am

Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!
Schindlers list never advertised itself as a documentary... It was a Historical Drama.

Currently you are posting spam actually by your standards, this is unrelated to the thread.
We're somehow onto Schindler's List in a thread on T-4? Holy moly!!!! A piss-poor diversionary attempt, I'd say. Anyway, for the record, I agree with your points about films - and I really disliked Schindler's List.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:28 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!
Schindlers list never advertised itself as a documentary... It was a Historical Drama.

Currently you are posting spam actually by your standards, this is unrelated to the thread.
We're somehow onto Schindler's List in a thread on T-4? Holy moly!!!! A piss-poor diversionary attempt, I'd say. Anyway, for the record, I agree with your points about films - and I really disliked Schindler's List.
It's not a film, it's a "documentary", dammit! :lol:

How they ever got to that.... used to be a biggie on usenet back in the day...

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:32 am

>> How they ever got to that.... used to be a biggie on usenet back in the day...

Also at Rodoh 1.0. So, yeah, just trot it out when it doesn't even apply! LOL
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:43 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:>> How they ever got to that.... used to be a biggie on usenet back in the day...

Also at Rodoh 1.0. So, yeah, just trot it out when it doesn't even apply! LOL
To be fair, Monty didn't exactly make the same mistake: his wording was a bit... softer... "smarmy" comes to mind.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:All films that are claimed to be documentaries matter a whole lot when they're beinig pushed as the truth. Schindler's List did irreparable damage to the truth. Thank you for at least beginning to attempt to talk about something on-topic and not just personal insults and spam!
Schindlers list never advertised itself as a documentary... It was a Historical Drama.

Currently you are posting spam actually by your standards, this is unrelated to the thread.
We're somehow onto Schindler's List in a thread on T-4? Holy moly!!!! A piss-poor diversionary attempt, I'd say. Anyway, for the record, I agree with your points about films - and I really disliked Schindler's List.
I'm not into attempting to divert any topic but at least we have found some common ground on Sch. List. The real problem is, too many people take it for the gospel truth and that sets us back instead of making any points to support the holocaust legend. As you have done, putting down the garbage, albeit in a not very forceful way, at least helps. Except that you'll never reach the millions that have been convinced of the lies and exaggerations portrayed by that film.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:56 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
To be fair, Monty didn't exactly make the same mistake: his wording was a bit... softer... "smarmy" comes to mind.
Well Xcalibur, being the medical expert that you appear to be , could you explain the lividity and flushing of the skin of people with CO and HCN inhalation and poisoning.
The thread intention states:
The following text is take from a document in the files of the British Political Warfare Executive. It's found in a collection called "come backs", which was where the PWE recorded details of what they suspected to have been "echoes" of the fake rumours they had created and put into circulation.

A few things to bear in mind:

1. The nazis had been gassing the insane
2. The British had heard reports that the nazis were gassing the insane
3. The British were not then convinced the reports were true
4. The British had already spread at least one rumour about nazis gassing their insane


Despite your ethnic affiliations could you try and be impartial. The evidence shows that the disabled were not murdered. Where is your evidence., apart from Gerstein? If CO was used which causes asphyxiation due to the fact that CO chemically is more affinitive to hemoglobin than oxygen. can you explain why the witnesses reported normal lividity rather than the flushing of the skin and then true lividity an hour or so later. If CO was used then slightly over half of the cadavars would be pinkish.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:00 am

Anti-Semitic cretin.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:02 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Anti-Semitic cretin.
Who mentioned anything about the Jews? I didn't what are you on about.?

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Pyrrho » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:11 am

Perhaps it was your statement, "Despite your ethnic affiliations..." which is irrelevant to the discussion and which could be construed as anti-semitic.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:15 am

Yes, that was exactly it.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:28 am

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
To be fair, Monty didn't exactly make the same mistake: his wording was a bit... softer... "smarmy" comes to mind.
Well Xcalibur, being the medical expert that you appear to be , could you explain the lividity and flushing of the skin of people with CO and HCN inhalation and poisoning.
The thread intention states:
The following text is take from a document in the files of the British Political Warfare Executive. It's found in a collection called "come backs", which was where the PWE recorded details of what they suspected to have been "echoes" of the fake rumours they had created and put into circulation.

A few things to bear in mind:

1. The nazis had been gassing the insane
2. The British had heard reports that the nazis were gassing the insane
3. The British were not then convinced the reports were true
4. The British had already spread at least one rumour about nazis gassing their insane


Despite your ethnic affiliations could you try and be impartial. The evidence shows that the disabled were not murdered. Where is your evidence., apart from Gerstein? If CO was used which causes asphyxiation due to the fact that CO chemically is more affinitive to hemoglobin than oxygen. can you explain why the witnesses reported normal lividity rather than the flushing of the skin and then true lividity an hour or so later. If CO was used then slightly over half of the cadavars would be pinkish.
Since it's clear you're not likely to accept anything I have to say, I suggest you hop back to Rodoh and read any of the threads by Berg on the subject.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:39 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Since it's clear you're not likely to accept anything I have to say, I suggest you hop back to Rodoh and read any of the threads by Berg on the subject.
Mr Berg gets a little confused like Nessie between the difference between lividity and inflammation. It does cause confusion which needs to be addressed so with your expertise perhaps you may help. Lets use probability here, when there is CO or HCN poisoning, the chances of say a pinkish discolouration is slightly less than .5, this is from inflammation alone. I didn't make that up. This means in 100 bodies there should be say 40 out of every 100 which would be significantly pink.

Considering the normal persons perception of dead cadavars is blue, black green, the slightly less than half of the bodies being pink and almost alive should have been in all eye witness testimonies and yet it was not. Except for one witness who reported reddish blotches (probably due to measles or something) all the others mentioned the normal expectation of how dead people should look. I find that remarkably strange. On this alone I support Friedrich Berg.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:47 am

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Since it's clear you're not likely to accept anything I have to say, I suggest you hop back to Rodoh and read any of the threads by Berg on the subject.
Mr Berg gets a little confused like Nessie between the difference between lividity and inflammation. It does cause confusion which needs to be addressed so with your expertise perhaps you may help. Lets use probability here, when there is CO or HCN poisoning, the chances of say a pinkish discolouration is slightly less than .5, this is from inflammation alone. I didn't make that up. This means in 100 bodies there should be say 40 out of every 100 which would be significantly pink.

Considering the normal persons perception of dead cadavars is blue, black green, the slightly less than half of the bodies being pink and almost alive should have been in all eye witness testimonies and yet it was not. Except for one witness who reported reddish blotches (probably due to measles or something) all the others mentioned the normal expectation of how dead people should look. I find that remarkably strange. On this alone I support Friedrich Berg.
I'll have a look at Berg first hand to see what the problem may be.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:29 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
I'll have a look at Berg first hand to see what the problem may be.
Thank you,,awesome :D

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Hans » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:31 pm

VFX wrote:
Despite your ethnic affiliations could you try and be impartial. The evidence shows that the disabled were not murdered. Where is your evidence., apart from Gerstein? If CO was used which causes asphyxiation due to the fact that CO chemically is more affinitive to hemoglobin than oxygen. can you explain why the witnesses reported normal lividity rather than the flushing of the skin and then true lividity an hour or so later. If CO was used then slightly over half of the cadavars would be pinkish.
Contemporary German Documents on Carbon Monoxide Gas and Bottles Employed for the Nazi Euthanasia

German Footage of a Homicidal Gassing with Engine Exhaust

Rebuttal of Alvarez on Gas Vans: The Rauff Letter to the Criminal Technical Institute

How many testimonies of Nazi Euthanasia witnesses have you studied so far, by the way?

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:24 pm

The Mogilev Test Gassing (warning, graphic video)

I took a chance because I'm not particulary into graphic! And then there was no graphic?
I would suggest that it's evidence of a sort, with lots of questions needing to be answered. However, it's undeniable that the setup would have been intended to gas somebody or something. Or at the very least, a setup that would illustrate an effective method of doing so.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Hans » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:29 am

montgomery wrote:The Mogilev Test Gassing (warning, graphic video)

I took a chance because I'm not particulary into graphic! And then there was no graphic?
I would suggest that it's evidence of a sort, with lots of questions needing to be answered. However, it's undeniable that the setup would have been intended to gas somebody or something. Or at the very least, a setup that would illustrate an effective method of doing so.
Do not hesitate to ask your numerous questions! (that have not been yet addressed in the linked series of postings).

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:40 am

Good luck getting this guy to read and respond to a link or anything more substantive than a quip.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by Darren Wilshak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:57 pm

I've blocked them both as time wasting trolls.

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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:05 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:I've blocked them both as time wasting trolls.
I guess Nessie is the only one who actually wants to talk to him/her/them and it's hard to believe that even he never tires of such, but, so far, he keeps plodding on...
.
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Re: March 1941: Nazis use humour to deny gassing the insane

Post by montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:28 pm

We have a list of bogus witnesses that were presented by Mattogno, and nobody is making any claims so far of any of them being credible witnesses. Is anybody yet used any of those witnesses names on this thread and attempted to present them as credible? Answers from either side of the debate would be welcome.