Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

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Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Aaron Richards » Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:06 pm

Had an exchange with a denier on youtube who switched topic and dropped the following on me:

"The Soviets sent roughly a million people from Poland to Siberia. According to Norman Davies, almost half had died by the time the Sikorski-Mayski Agreement had been signed in 1941. Around 55% of the deportees to Siberia and Soviet Central Asia were Polish women.

Go ahead write this up on your cute little blog."

First I thought this might be a James Baque type character but Davies is a respected historian. I hadnt heard about this claim before, has it been discussed here already? Would like some more info if possible, thanks.
Last edited by Aaron Richards on Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:01 pm

Norman Davies is a well respected author and historian, Aaron. His history on Europe is first rate.

The number seems somewhat high.....

I'm not home right now but I can check when I get home.

My book on Europe is at work but I've got some other sources.

The Soviets did deport large numbers of people before and after the German invasion. Frankly they were much better at it than the Germans.

Can't friggin' spell tonight, third edit.
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:04 pm

Aaron Richards wrote: According to Norman Davies...
Did this person give his source, what book of Davies he pulled this from?
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Aaron Richards » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:42 pm

nope, no source, no book, no page number as is usual for them on youtube. I've replied to him and will let you know if he brings forth anything more substantial.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:52 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:nope, no source, no book, no page number as is usual for them on youtube. I've replied to him and will let you know if he brings forth anything more substantial.
YouTube deniers are Rizoli-level stupid.....:lol:

You can tell them that with my compliments. :P

At the gym, be home in a bit.

I have two books that should have some numbers.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:00 am

Yosef Litvak, ""Jewish Refugees from Poland in the USSR, 1939-1946," in Zvi Gitelman, ed, Bitter Legacy: Confronting the Holocaust in the USSR, covers this; Litvak concluded that about half a million Polish Jews found refuge in the USSR between 1939 and 1941 - IIRC many were sent to camps (not sure about Siberia) followed by gradual release of prisoners pursuant to the Polish-Soviet agreement of mid 1941. Again, with the book not handy, I recall something like half surviving the war. Davies numbers seem high all around. Did "your denier" give a citation? If you can get your hands on Gitelman's book, it should help - I recall Litvak's paper being decent.

PS - interested in seeing Jeffk's numbers. And of course there is no citation . . . my notes on this more or less suck!
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Denying-History » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:10 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:nope, no source, no book, no page number as is usual for them on youtube. I've replied to him and will let you know if he brings forth anything more substantial.
YouTube deniers are Rizoli-level stupid.....:lol:

You can tell them that with my compliments. :P

At the gym, be home in a bit.

I have two books that should have some numbers.
I think you mean Joe level...
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:18 am

Ok, Aaron, I couldn't find one of the books I was looking for so I'm just going to give you what I can find in Timothy Snyder's "Bloodlands."
This is from the chapter "Molotov-Ribbentrop Europe."
According to Snyder, the NKVD deported 139,794 Polish citizens in February of 1940, 60,667 Polish citizens in April of 1940 (these were the relatives of the Polish officers shot and buried at places like Katyn), 78,339 people deported in June of 1940 (most of these were Jews that refused the internal Soviet passport), 11,328 in May of 1941 (ethnic Ukrainians living in the former part of Eastern Poland) and 22,353 on June 19th, 1941. Sadly the Germans bombed this last transport, killing 2,000.

I didn't add all of this up but Snyder did, coming to 315,000 deported between February of 1940 to June 1941. Snyder estimates that about 25,000 died in captivity with an additional 30,000 executed. He also stated that 110,000 were arrested but not deported.

I can't find my copy of Laurence Rees' "WW II Behind Closed Doors," I believe he also talked about the Polish deportations.

I'll check my copy of Norman Davies' "Europe" and see if he says anything about this but this will have to be tomorrow.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Denying-History » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:45 am

Well from what I know according to Snyder 111,901 poles were executed in the NKVD operations.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:00 am

Whoopsie, I misread the OP, who knows why, thinking it was about Polish Jews. Never miiiiiind.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:18 am

Denying-History wrote:Well from what I know according to Snyder 111,901 poles were executed in the NKVD operations.
I looked at the period up until 1941.

I can go back through it again but it'll be tomorrow.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by nickterry » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:50 am

Snyder is citing indirectly from archival data; the scale of deportations in 1939-41 from eastern Poland is indeed not much over 300,000, including Poles *and* Jews.

Jonathan Harrison covered this in his Sanning series, and received data from a Polish demographer breaking down the transports town by town.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... art-5.html

Until the end of the Cold War, claims of 1 million deportees from eastern Poland were standard, and some historians such as Norman Davies continue to repeat them, but specialist historians - Gurianov in Russia for one - saw the actual Soviet documents. Ergo professors such as Timothy Snyder cite the lower, better sourced figures. Yitzhak Arad lazily defaulted back to higher figures in The Holocaust in the Soviet Union.

It'd help if someone who has Snyder dug into the endnotes to highlight the source Snyder is citing; because it's never good to have a duel of unsupported assertions.

References *I* would use:

Gurianov, A.E. (ed), Repressii protiv poliakov i pol’skikh grazhdan. Moscow, Zven’ia, 1997
Gurjanov, Aleksander, ‘Cztery deportacje 1940–1941’, KARTA, 12, 1994, pp. 114–136
Polian, Pavel, Against Their Will: The History and Geography of Forced Migrations in the USSR (New York: Centraul European University Press, 2004). Russian original: Ne po svoey vole..., Moscow, O.G.I.-Memorial, 2001

Basically anything before Gurianov 1997 is unreliable, as is anything published after 1997 that fails to cite the new data.

Litvak's work is not going to be fully reliable re numbers, sorry.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by nickterry » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:51 am

Denying-History wrote:Well from what I know according to Snyder 111,901 poles were executed in the NKVD operations.
In 1937-1938, inside the prewar borders of the USSR, so not relevant here.

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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:47 pm

Nickterry wrote: It'd help if someone who has Snyder dug into the endnotes to highlight the source Snyder is citing; because it's never good to have a duel of unsupported assertions.
I'll do that tonight unless DH can today.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:53 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Whoopsie, I misread the OP, who knows why, thinking it was about Polish Jews. Never miiiiiind.
It's because you are a "true believer." You only think about Jews because you fell for the Jedi/Jew mind trick.

:lol:
:lol:

Thanks for those numbers, BTW. It's interesting to see how many possible refugees actually found their way to Soviet territory before June 1941.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:24 pm

Lol but as Nick warned caution with Litvak!
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:41 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Had an exchange with a denier on youtube who switched topic and dropped the following on me:

"The Soviets sent roughly a million people from Poland to Siberia. According to Norman Davies, almost half had died by the time the Sikorski-Mayski Agreement had been signed in 1941. Around 55% of the deportees to Siberia and Soviet Central Asia were Polish women.

Go ahead write this up on your cute little blog."

First I thought this might be a James Baque type character but Davies is a respected historian. I hadnt heard about this claim before, has it been discussed here already? Would like some more info if possible, thanks.
Ok, Aaron, I checked what Davies has to say:
Europe, A History:
Pg. 1002-1003, Chapter-Europe in Eclipse:
"By the Summer of 1941 between 1 and 2 million had been transported either to the Arctic Camps or to forced exile in Central Asia."

That's it, the only thing he says about the Soviet deportations of Polish citizens.

His footnote on this, 73, lists works only up to 1991. This makes sense as he wrote this book in 1996.

So, in a sense, your goofy denier is somewhat right, however, according to Nick Terry recent scholarship is much more conservative and more accurate (post 1997).

I'd take Snyder's numbers over Davies. This doesn't diminish how I feel about Davies but it does make me more cautious about his numbers, especially from a book 20 years old.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Aaron Richards » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:01 pm

Thanks all, I know I can always depend on you guys for setting the record straight. Many thanks. In the mean time, still no reply from that denier when I asked him to provide book and page number. The denier in question was a youtuber ironically called "Erwache"
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:07 pm

I do recommend "Bloodlands" by Timothy Snyder and Rees "WW II Behind Closed Doors."

Check out the "General Books/Reading Discusions" for book suggestions.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Aaron Richards » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:19 pm

Bloodlands looks like an interesting book because it indeed covers an area that saw an incredible amount of death in a very short time. Lots of 5 star ratings, so I considered buying it on amazon, but then I came across the only 1 star review by one Anatoly Klarov (might be Russian, hence biased), but he does raise some interesting points. Thoughts?
Snyder’s book, a worldwide sales success, in few words is – or should be – an exceptionally bad book. I say “should”, because, unfortunately, in the field of Soviet studies, terrible, un-scientific, sensationalist and fraudulent books are hardly an exception. The question how a book that disregards and violates about every rule of scientific research, which is rejected by all serious scholars on Soviet history, can be such a success, can be answered with one word only: Anti-communism. Had Snyder written his book on the life of, say, Peter the Great or Cardinal Richelieu and used the “methods” he has used in his “bloodlands”, he probably wouldn’t even have found a publisher ready to sully his name with such nonsense.
But none of this applies when one writes about the Soviet Union. Virtually everything is welcome, as long as it is anti-communist and serves the political goals of right-wing historiography.
Snyder’s view on Soviet history is deeply flawed, simply because he allows his political affiliations (his apparent sympathies for Polish and West-Ukrainian nationalism) to cloud his judgment on about every aspect of Eastern European history. Snyder defends the long-debunked myth of the “Holodomor”, the alleged “hunger holocaust”, inflicted by Stalin upon Ukrainian peasants. It has been demonstrated by numerous scholars that there is not the slightest shred of evidence for this claim. Rather, as Prof. Mark Tauger convincingly demonstrated, the 1932-33 Soviet famine was mainly a consequence of a rare coincidence of natural disasters, not of wrong policies, let alone deliberate genocide. The “holodomor” myth, invented by the Nazis as anti-bolshevik propaganda, is now defended mainly by Ukrainian ultra-nationalist and fascist circles. So, once again: If you write about the Soviet Union, anything goes, as long as it is anti-communist. You can even adopt the views of the Nazis and present them as historical truths, as long as it serves your political aim: To slander every aspect of the Soviet Union, communism, and, of course, Stalin. You do not have to be a communist or pro-Stalin in order to reject this kind of distortion of historical truth.
Similarly, Snyder’s account of the Polish “Home Army” (AK) and the Warsaw Uprising is completely one-sided and from the point of view taken by Polish anti-Russian and anti-communist nationalism. He never mentions ethnic cleansing and war crimes committed by the AK, he denies their virulent anti-Semitism that led the AK to wage war against “Jewish bandits” (Jewish fugitives who dared to oppose the Nazis in armed resistance), massacred Jews and Ukrainians and refused any substantial help to the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943. He also absurdly blames the failure of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 – which was arguably one of the most irresponsible military adventures of the 20th century – exclusively on the Red Army, although it is well-known that the Soviets, even if they had wanted to support the uprising which was actually directed more against the USSR than against Nazi Germany, could not have simply supported the AK, since their troops were stuck at the other bank of the Vistula. Of course, Snyder also “forgets” to mention the substantial support deliveries that were actually delivered by Red Army aircraft.
But Snyder is not always so generous: While ignoring horrible war crimes committed by the AK and UPA (Ukrainian fascists led by Stepan Bandera), groups that arguably contributed to the “bloodlands” to a large extent, he consistently interprets the whole history of pro-communist resistance in the worst possible way: Everything the AK did was good, everything Polish communists or Soviet partisans, led alone the Red Army or the Soviet leadership did, was bad. That said it is hardly a surprise that Snyder’s book has become a popular reference for right-wing nationalist and fascist groups all over Eastern Europe who apparently quite well understand the political purpose of Snyder’s own far-right historical revisionism: To roll back the achievements of historical science of recent decades (represented by the works of excellent scholars such as Getty, Thurston, Fitzpatrick, Tauger, Zemskov, Naumov, Roberts and many others), to return to the “totalitarian” paradigm of historiography and exonerate, if not the Nazis themselves, at least Eastern European ultra-nationalism and the bloody trail it left behind.
The book of Snyder is in fact so fraudulent from the first to the last page, so dishonest in its use of sources and evidence that scholar Grover Furr has dedicated a whole book to refute Snyder’s numerous false claims. This book, arguably much more recommendable than Snyder’s “bloodlands” itself, is called “blood lies”. Also, check out this article on Snyder’s lies: (...)
“Blood lies” demonstrates plausibly that Snyder’s book is nothing but a manifest of falsehoods. For this, of course, it can only receive the lowest possible rating.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:39 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Bloodlands looks like an interesting book because it indeed covers an area that saw an incredible amount of death in a very short time. Lots of 5 star ratings, so I considered buying it on amazon, but then I came across the only 1 star review by one Anatoly Klarov (might be Russian, hence biased), but he does raise some interesting points. Thoughts?
Snyder’s book, a worldwide sales success, in few words is – or should be – an exceptionally bad book. I say “should”, because, unfortunately, in the field of Soviet studies, terrible, un-scientific, sensationalist and fraudulent books are hardly an exception. The question how a book that disregards and violates about every rule of scientific research, which is rejected by all serious scholars on Soviet history, can be such a success, can be answered with one word only: Anti-communism. Had Snyder written his book on the life of, say, Peter the Great or Cardinal Richelieu and used the “methods” he has used in his “bloodlands”, he probably wouldn’t even have found a publisher ready to sully his name with such nonsense.
But none of this applies when one writes about the Soviet Union. Virtually everything is welcome, as long as it is anti-communist and serves the political goals of right-wing historiography.
Snyder’s view on Soviet history is deeply flawed, simply because he allows his political affiliations (his apparent sympathies for Polish and West-Ukrainian nationalism) to cloud his judgment on about every aspect of Eastern European history. Snyder defends the long-debunked myth of the “Holodomor”, the alleged “hunger holocaust”, inflicted by Stalin upon Ukrainian peasants. It has been demonstrated by numerous scholars that there is not the slightest shred of evidence for this claim. Rather, as Prof. Mark Tauger convincingly demonstrated, the 1932-33 Soviet famine was mainly a consequence of a rare coincidence of natural disasters, not of wrong policies, let alone deliberate genocide. The “holodomor” myth, invented by the Nazis as anti-bolshevik propaganda, is now defended mainly by Ukrainian ultra-nationalist and fascist circles. So, once again: If you write about the Soviet Union, anything goes, as long as it is anti-communist. You can even adopt the views of the Nazis and present them as historical truths, as long as it serves your political aim: To slander every aspect of the Soviet Union, communism, and, of course, Stalin. You do not have to be a communist or pro-Stalin in order to reject this kind of distortion of historical truth.
Similarly, Snyder’s account of the Polish “Home Army” (AK) and the Warsaw Uprising is completely one-sided and from the point of view taken by Polish anti-Russian and anti-communist nationalism. He never mentions ethnic cleansing and war crimes committed by the AK, he denies their virulent anti-Semitism that led the AK to wage war against “Jewish bandits” (Jewish fugitives who dared to oppose the Nazis in armed resistance), massacred Jews and Ukrainians and refused any substantial help to the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943. He also absurdly blames the failure of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 – which was arguably one of the most irresponsible military adventures of the 20th century – exclusively on the Red Army, although it is well-known that the Soviets, even if they had wanted to support the uprising which was actually directed more against the USSR than against Nazi Germany, could not have simply supported the AK, since their troops were stuck at the other bank of the Vistula. Of course, Snyder also “forgets” to mention the substantial support deliveries that were actually delivered by Red Army aircraft.
But Snyder is not always so generous: While ignoring horrible war crimes committed by the AK and UPA (Ukrainian fascists led by Stepan Bandera), groups that arguably contributed to the “bloodlands” to a large extent, he consistently interprets the whole history of pro-communist resistance in the worst possible way: Everything the AK did was good, everything Polish communists or Soviet partisans, led alone the Red Army or the Soviet leadership did, was bad. That said it is hardly a surprise that Snyder’s book has become a popular reference for right-wing nationalist and fascist groups all over Eastern Europe who apparently quite well understand the political purpose of Snyder’s own far-right historical revisionism: To roll back the achievements of historical science of recent decades (represented by the works of excellent scholars such as Getty, Thurston, Fitzpatrick, Tauger, Zemskov, Naumov, Roberts and many others), to return to the “totalitarian” paradigm of historiography and exonerate, if not the Nazis themselves, at least Eastern European ultra-nationalism and the bloody trail it left behind.
The book of Snyder is in fact so fraudulent from the first to the last page, so dishonest in its use of sources and evidence that scholar Grover Furr has dedicated a whole book to refute Snyder’s numerous false claims. This book, arguably much more recommendable than Snyder’s “bloodlands” itself, is called “blood lies”. Also, check out this article on Snyder’s lies: (...)
“Blood lies” demonstrates plausibly that Snyder’s book is nothing but a manifest of falsehoods. For this, of course, it can only receive the lowest possible rating.

D-H knows more about Holdomor Denial than I do but I believe Tauger is a leading proponent of Holdomor Denial.

Aaron, I once read a Jewish historian who shredded this book for the reason that Snyder pointed out there were a lot of Jews in the NKVD and the Communist Party.

Well, there were....but there were a lot of ethnic Poles, Belorussians, Ukrainians, Germans, whatever in the NKVD as well. The Communists in the early 20's, led by Lenin, encouraged nationalism and ethnicity. The Communist Party itself regarded itself as inclusive and wanted minority participation. Tragically Stalin later flipped it on its head and actively persecuted ethnic minorities starting in the 1930's. Snyder pointed out all that I just wrote yet I didn't see any Polish historians whining about it.

Nobody is ever going to absolutely love anyone's work, Aaron. I recommend the book as a very good introduction to the history of the region. I have my complaints as well, I wish he had spent more time on the Baltic countries and extended his definition to include Greece and Yugoslavia during WW II. But it's very good otherwise (but, fair warning, it is graphic. Snyder pulls no punches on his descriptions of the conditions in the areas he covers).

If you are hesitant to buy it you can probably find it in a library somewhere.
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Re: Claims of Soviets leading Poles to their deaths into Siberia?

Post by Denying-History » Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:36 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:Bloodlands looks like an interesting book because it indeed covers an area that saw an incredible amount of death in a very short time. Lots of 5 star ratings, so I considered buying it on amazon, but then I came across the only 1 star review by one Anatoly Klarov (might be Russian, hence biased), but he does raise some interesting points. Thoughts?
Snyder’s book, a worldwide sales success, in few words is – or should be – an exceptionally bad book. I say “should”, because, unfortunately, in the field of Soviet studies, terrible, un-scientific, sensationalist and fraudulent books are hardly an exception. The question how a book that disregards and violates about every rule of scientific research, which is rejected by all serious scholars on Soviet history, can be such a success, can be answered with one word only: Anti-communism. Had Snyder written his book on the life of, say, Peter the Great or Cardinal Richelieu and used the “methods” he has used in his “bloodlands”, he probably wouldn’t even have found a publisher ready to sully his name with such nonsense.
But none of this applies when one writes about the Soviet Union. Virtually everything is welcome, as long as it is anti-communist and serves the political goals of right-wing historiography.
Snyder’s view on Soviet history is deeply flawed, simply because he allows his political affiliations (his apparent sympathies for Polish and West-Ukrainian nationalism) to cloud his judgment on about every aspect of Eastern European history. Snyder defends the long-debunked myth of the “Holodomor”, the alleged “hunger holocaust”, inflicted by Stalin upon Ukrainian peasants. It has been demonstrated by numerous scholars that there is not the slightest shred of evidence for this claim. Rather, as Prof. Mark Tauger convincingly demonstrated, the 1932-33 Soviet famine was mainly a consequence of a rare coincidence of natural disasters, not of wrong policies, let alone deliberate genocide. The “holodomor” myth, invented by the Nazis as anti-bolshevik propaganda, is now defended mainly by Ukrainian ultra-nationalist and fascist circles. So, once again: If you write about the Soviet Union, anything goes, as long as it is anti-communist. You can even adopt the views of the Nazis and present them as historical truths, as long as it serves your political aim: To slander every aspect of the Soviet Union, communism, and, of course, Stalin. You do not have to be a communist or pro-Stalin in order to reject this kind of distortion of historical truth.
Similarly, Snyder’s account of the Polish “Home Army” (AK) and the Warsaw Uprising is completely one-sided and from the point of view taken by Polish anti-Russian and anti-communist nationalism. He never mentions ethnic cleansing and war crimes committed by the AK, he denies their virulent anti-Semitism that led the AK to wage war against “Jewish bandits” (Jewish fugitives who dared to oppose the Nazis in armed resistance), massacred Jews and Ukrainians and refused any substantial help to the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943. He also absurdly blames the failure of the Warsaw Uprising of 1944 – which was arguably one of the most irresponsible military adventures of the 20th century – exclusively on the Red Army, although it is well-known that the Soviets, even if they had wanted to support the uprising which was actually directed more against the USSR than against Nazi Germany, could not have simply supported the AK, since their troops were stuck at the other bank of the Vistula. Of course, Snyder also “forgets” to mention the substantial support deliveries that were actually delivered by Red Army aircraft.
But Snyder is not always so generous: While ignoring horrible war crimes committed by the AK and UPA (Ukrainian fascists led by Stepan Bandera), groups that arguably contributed to the “bloodlands” to a large extent, he consistently interprets the whole history of pro-communist resistance in the worst possible way: Everything the AK did was good, everything Polish communists or Soviet partisans, led alone the Red Army or the Soviet leadership did, was bad. That said it is hardly a surprise that Snyder’s book has become a popular reference for right-wing nationalist and fascist groups all over Eastern Europe who apparently quite well understand the political purpose of Snyder’s own far-right historical revisionism: To roll back the achievements of historical science of recent decades (represented by the works of excellent scholars such as Getty, Thurston, Fitzpatrick, Tauger, Zemskov, Naumov, Roberts and many others), to return to the “totalitarian” paradigm of historiography and exonerate, if not the Nazis themselves, at least Eastern European ultra-nationalism and the bloody trail it left behind.
The book of Snyder is in fact so fraudulent from the first to the last page, so dishonest in its use of sources and evidence that scholar Grover Furr has dedicated a whole book to refute Snyder’s numerous false claims. This book, arguably much more recommendable than Snyder’s “bloodlands” itself, is called “blood lies”. Also, check out this article on Snyder’s lies: (...)
“Blood lies” demonstrates plausibly that Snyder’s book is nothing but a manifest of falsehoods. For this, of course, it can only receive the lowest possible rating.

D-H knows more about Holdomor Denial than I do but I believe Tauger is a leading proponent of Holdomor Denial.

Aaron, I once read a Jewish historian who shredded this book for the reason that Snyder pointed out there were a lot of Jews in the NKVD and the Communist Party.

Well, there were....but there were a lot of ethnic Poles, Belorussians, Ukrainians, Germans, whatever in the NKVD as well. The Communists in the early 20's, led by Lenin, encouraged nationalism and ethnicity. The Communist Party itself regarded itself as inclusive and wanted minority participation. Tragically Stalin later flipped it on its head and actively persecuted ethnic minorities starting in the 1930's. Snyder pointed out all that I just wrote yet I didn't see any Polish historians whining about it.

Nobody is ever going to absolutely love anyone's work, Aaron. I recommend the book as a very good introduction to the history of the region. I have my complaints as well, I wish he had spent more time on the Baltic countries and extended his definition to include Greece and Yugoslavia during WW II. But it's very good otherwise (but, fair warning, it is graphic. Snyder pulls no punches on his descriptions of the conditions in the areas he covers).

If you are hesitant to buy it you can probably find it in a library somewhere.
Tauger is not a Denier of anything... He could be argued controversial history professor, but he really is part of the opposite radical thought as Wheatcroft states. While historians like Snyder and Robert Conquest (to an extent) would be polar opposites to Tauger (whom believes the famine itself was caused completely by weather), despite some holes in his logic. Tauger as well seems to have some dishonest tactics to his work such as dismissal of witness testimony. I agree with a large portion of mace's case against him. As well no Russian or Ukrainian Historian whom has studied the topic takes Taugers argument seriously. I have made a few comments about Tauger on my YT channel. Anyone interested can view it here:

https://youtu.be/iPC4o-xJxSE?t=78

I personally stand that it was a crime against humanity and possibly a genocide. Sort of where Conquest stands. My opinion aside though, the only person which a good impact that I could think up that actually denies the famine altogether would be Douglas Tottle a Canadian trade union activist. He is the writer of the book Fraud, Famine, and Fascism (can be read here) Other then Tottle I can only think of one other person and that would be Walter Duranty, but he is dead now.

The quote Aaron has provided is from Grover Furr... A Stalin apologist who is known for using highly questionable sources. He is also well known for saying:

1) The Germans were the shooters at Katyn.

2) That Leon Trotsky is a Nazi collaborator

And also using Purge show trials as actual evidence. Another note on Grover Furr is that he is not a Historian, but an professor in an unrelated field of English.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies