Trump will win!

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Balsamo
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balsamo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm

Statmec wrote:
I think the major debate among the Dems will be about Israel.
Which makes perfect sense in the context of a US presidential election. :ahoy: :
if Bernie should somehow win the nomination (he won't ... but play along ... ) then the centrists will pout and elect Trump.
Funny you are saying that. It was not obvious back in 2016.
But i agree, the new campàign by Sanders is a mistake, and i don't believe the "Bernie's magic" would repeat itself.
On the other hand, i don't see why you think centrists would elect Trump just because of him.

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:56 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
if Bernie should somehow win the nomination (he won't ... but play along ... ) then the centrists will pout and elect Trump.
Funny you are saying that. It was not obvious back in 2016.
Now that you raise the point, I have to say that I think that same thing would have happened in '16.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
But i agree, the new campàign by Sanders is a mistake, and i don't believe the "Bernie's magic" would repeat itself.
On the other hand, i don't see why you think centrists would elect Trump just because of him.
It's what they did in '72. And they are hopping mad this time, burn the house down mad about Omar, Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib, Sanders, and others. I'm not saying that it would be an explicit, organized movement or policy - just a lot of professionals and others sitting on their hands, talking Sanders down, etc. Many of these folks are as wed to big tech's money, to neoliberal market ideas (deregulation, low taxes, almost libertarian individualism), to business donors, and to serious limitations being put on the welfare state as Republicans are. They see Sanders (and even Warren) as socialists who will {!#%@} up their good thing.

I have a very good friend, for example, who cannot bring himself to talk coherently about Sanders - because in his view Sanders cost Clinton the election in '16. He doesn't believe Sanders should even be allowed to run this time. He would simply not vote if Sanders were the nominee. And urge his friends not to vote either. That is a fairly widespread sentiment among the conservative/Clinton Democrats.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by MikeN » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:32 pm

Bernie could have won the nomination in 2016, if he had wanted to. He was not interested in winning, just to push issues.
If he had been like Trump, he could have won the nomination. What if like Donald Trump, he had threatened to run third party, and sow chaos and rioting at the convention if he is denied?

This time around, Bernie is looking at how successful he was last time, and is just looking to make money off the donations, selling his donor list to the party.

The Wikileaks found an e-mail where Team Hillary is saying Bernie is violating the 'arrangement'. Will anyone ask him about this?

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:50 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:56 pm

I have a very good friend, for example, who cannot bring himself to talk coherently about Sanders - because in his view Sanders cost Clinton the election in '16. He doesn't believe Sanders should even be allowed to run this time. He would simply not vote if Sanders were the nominee. And urge his friends not to vote either. That is a fairly widespread sentiment among the conservative/Clinton Democrats.
Then they are {!#%@} morons and you can quote that to them from me.

Look, this is essentially handing Trump the presidency for a second term if this becomes widespread. Is this what they want? Trump appointees controlling the judiciary, up to the Supreme Court? Widespread tacit approval for WN? What do they think will happen?
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balsamo » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:56 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
if Bernie should somehow win the nomination (he won't ... but play along ... ) then the centrists will pout and elect Trump.
Funny you are saying that. It was not obvious back in 2016.
Now that you raise the point, I have to say that I think that same thing would have happened in '16.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
But i agree, the new campàign by Sanders is a mistake, and i don't believe the "Bernie's magic" would repeat itself.
On the other hand, i don't see why you think centrists would elect Trump just because of him.
It's what they did in '72. And they are hopping mad this time, burn the house down mad about Omar, Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib, Sanders, and others. I'm not saying that it would be an explicit, organized movement or policy - just a lot of professionals and others sitting on their hands, talking Sanders down, etc. Many of these folks are as wed to big tech's money, to neoliberal market ideas (deregulation, low taxes, almost libertarian individualism), to business donors, and to serious limitations being put on the welfare state as Republicans are. They see Sanders (and even Warren) as socialists who will {!#%@} up their good thing.

I have a very good friend, for example, who cannot even talk about Sanders - because in his view Sanders cost Clinton the election in '16. He doesn't believe Sanders should even be allowed to run this time. He would simply not vote if Sanders were the nominee. And urge his friends not to vote either. That is a fairly widespread sentiment among the conservative/Clinton Democrats.
Well i am not convinced.
I am pretty sure that some of those "allergic to socialism" would not have voted at all, but i still doubt they would have vote for his Orangeness.
But i agree, the "experts" would have given him a hard time. But those same "experts" failed to prevent Donny getting elected.

What i mean is that we are no longer in 1972.
Today, all across the Western Liberal World, the current "political- economical- sociological" model is contested because it went at the limits of its very own logic. The world youth are just rejecting it all together, with good faith and hopes of a ecological change that would manage to create a more viable model. Of course, they cannot figure out how it would look like, but the conviction is that it cannot be worse.
Now, the sad thing is that Europe failed to respond to socialist aspirations, and the elected socialists just failed or submitted to the liberal system. Hence, the temptation to go to the other side.

The USA don't even know what social democracy is, and i agree that most are suspicious, assimilating it to socialism. But today, who still really believes in the concept of the "American dreams" open to everyone?
I do remember the full support to Bernie Sanders by the young american, the millennial or whatever they are called. It did not come as a surprised to me, as it is basically the same rejection all around the western world.

In 2016, Trump got elected but not because of his quality or for what he said, but because some voters did not want another Clinton, but in fine, what kind of "change" did they got? Is America "greater" than it was?

Those 18-24 years who fully supported Sanders will only be 22-28 years old, probably reinforced by those who were only 14-18 and could not vote. I really believe there is an opportunity of real change in the USA, because of that. All it needed back in 2016, and all it would be needed in 2020, is that the political pundits (headquarters) start actually listen to what the majority want.

Our fellow Jeff36 is not the majority (thanks god).

But unfortunately, all of this does not erase the chances of Trump being reelected.

PS: to MikeN.
I kind of agree with that. He could have killed her during the debates, if only on those emails stuff. He was way too gentle, but it is hard to determine if this gentleness was not precisely one of the reasons of his popularity. One thing i am convinced of is that Trump got support because of his brutality.
As i said back in 2016, Clinton was the worst choice for the Democrats, but they chose to stick with the witch, and they lost because of their complaisance.

Regarding Bernie's campaign today, well i am not optimistic because he failed the last time, and there is a "loser tag" effect. And he is 4 years older, although he was already looking old back in 2016.
But what the {!#%@}, i am still happy he is running, because 3 years ago, he was not even considered worth being spoken about in the European Media. I hope this time his message will be heard.

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:57 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:50 pm
Then they are {!#%@} morons and you can quote that to them from me.
LOL
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:50 pm
Look, this is essentially handing Trump the presidency for a second term if this becomes widespread. Is this what they want? Trump appointees controlling the judiciary, up to the Supreme Court? Widespread tacit approval for WN? What do they think will happen?
It is funny. Not ha-ha funny but ironic funny. The so-called centrists revile "the left" for its purity and its litmus tests and its refusal to "get along"; yet millions of Sanders supporters in '16 backed a candidate for president whom they really, really did not like. For the larger good. I think I read somewhere that about the same % of Sanders' supporters voted for Clinton in November as Clintons' supporters voted for Obama. And yet . . .

I don't think I am wrong about this. I think if Sanders pulled off a miracle and won the nomination, the general election would be {!#%@}.

(Where Clinton really fell short in '16, according to post-election data IIRC, was in so-called rust belt cities and with a lack of turnout among African Americans; I don't think it was overt rejection so much as a lack of attraction, engagement and actual voting. She is, after all, "the cooler." OTOH Trump got unprecedentedly large turnouts in rural and conservative - white - areas. Bingo: there's your Trump presidency.)
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:03 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
Well i am not convinced.
That's fine :)
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
I am pretty sure that some of those "allergic to socialism" would not have voted at all, but i still doubt they would have vote for his Orangeness.
I wrote no such thing. Of course they won't vote for Trump. But they will not rally to support a Sanders-led ticket, either.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
What i mean is that we are no longer in 1972.
LOL of course not.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
Today, all across the Western Liberal World, the current "political- economical- sociological" model is contested because it went at the limits of its very own logic. The world youth are just rejecting it all together, with good faith and hopes of a ecological change that would manage to create a more viable model. Of course, they cannot figure out how it would look like, but the conviction is that it cannot be worse.
But I am talking about those who aren't in revolt or who aren't alienated from the system . . . I'm talking about "centrist" Democrats, who are really the neoliberal groups in the party. They made up the bulk of Clinton's vote. If you think the Democrats can win without them, that is fine. But they can't as they are now constituted. In some ways, the Democrats have become the party of the elites, the meritocracy, the affluent and the successful. Which fed Clinton's hubris, btw. But it's what they are and what they somehow have to navigate to beat Trump in '20.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
Those 18-24 years who fully supported Sanders will only be 22-28 years old, probably reinforced by those who were only 14-18 and could not vote. I really believe there is an opportunity of real change in the USA, because of that. All it needed back in 2016, and all it would be needed in 2020, is that the political pundits (headquarters) start actually listen to what the majority want.
I was not referring to these voters. Not at all.
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:52 pm
Regarding Bernie's campaign today, well i am not optimistic because he failed the last time, and there is a "loser tag" effect. And he is 4 years older, although he was already looking old back in 2016.
But what the {!#%@}, i am still happy he is running, because 3 years ago, he was not even considered worth being spoken about in the European Media. I hope this time his message will be heard.
I think it is less the loser tag than what I am saying: he is very unpopular with large parts of the Democratic party - is a divisive figure in that sense - and they will not get over it.

MikeN's post is more conspiraloonacy, not worth a reply . . . Bernie lost the nomination, life goes on.
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Re: Trump will whine!

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:30 pm

“The Radical Left Democrats, working closely with their beloved partner, the Fake News Media, is using every trick in the book to SILENCE a majority of our Country,”

Fox News Pulled Jeanine Pirro’s Show After Her Islamophobic Comments. Trump Wants It Back On.


I guess that's an Islamophobic majority then?
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:32 pm

But I am talking about those who aren't in revolt or who aren't alienated from the system . . . I'm talking about "centrist" Democrats, who are really the neoliberal groups in the party. They made up the bulk of Clinton's vote. If you think the Democrats can win without them, that is fine. But they can't as they are now constituted. In some ways, the Democrats have become the party of the elites, the meritocracy, the affluent and the successful. Which fed Clinton's hubris, btw. But it's what they are and what they somehow have to navigate to beat Trump in '20.
And that's exactly what the problem will be in the 5 surrounding counties of Philly come '20....

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 pm

:hmm: They, too, like those new tax laws, eh...
.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:49 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 pm
:hmm: They, too, like those new tax laws, eh...
Not enough to vote for Chunky or reverse House changes of '18.... but enough to make them very wary of Bernie...

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balsamo » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:19 am

Statmec:
But I am talking about those who aren't in revolt or who aren't alienated from the system . . . I'm talking about "centrist" Democrats, who are really the neoliberal groups in the party. They made up the bulk of Clinton's vote. If you think the Democrats can win without them, that is fine. But they can't as they are now constituted. In some ways, the Democrats have become the party of the elites, the meritocracy, the affluent and the successful. Which fed Clinton's hubris, btw. But it's what they are and what they somehow have to navigate to beat Trump in '20.
I understand perfectly, and it is not like i am disagreeing with your diagnosis, it is just that as far as i know, in the presidential election, only votes count.
Even if a part of those "neoliberal" democrats would choose to stay home, it is not going to hurt a Sanders ticket, unless they got crazy enough to vote for Trump in a "Everyone but Bernie" spirit. just don't see this happen. They would choose to stay home.
The funny part is that those "Neoliberals" Democrats just discovered that they could not win without the "Bernie's" side of the same Party.
Fact is, fair play and union will be the key for the Democrats, if they want to win the white house back.

But i do think that many independents - you know this unknown crowd who do not recognize itself in Trump or Clinton - would have voted Bernie in 2016. I am pretty sure Bernie would have won the 2016 elections, because no way the "Dust Belt" States would have rejected him as they rejected Clinton. Bernie won all the primaries up there. Actually, and i noticed that back then, Bernie was winning the Blue States, Clinton the Red ones. And California would never have voted Trump anyway.
Clinton lost because she just chose to ignore Bernie's voters.
And most of all, Trump won because no one took him seriously.

Now that his Orangeness has become a reality and that his Orange thinking is cutting down every pillars on which stands the power of the USA, i do think that if the democrats do play the election in a fair way - they really should let down this "super-delegate" things, they will win.
But if the Party is not united behind whoever fairly wins the primaries, then the result will be another 4 years drinking orange juice.

I was not referring to these voters. Not at all.
Well unless they have all been brainwashed during those 2.5 years, they will still be there, and as i said, probably reinforced by the next generation.
So, yes, i did refer to them. They are gonna be a key player.
I think it is less the loser tag than what I am saying: he is very unpopular with large parts of the Democratic party - is a divisive figure in that sense - and they will not get over it.
Well, i do not say you're wrong.
I just hope that those {!#%@} divided Democrats will get together around the future candidate who'll win the primaries fairly. But if the party would choose to play the game the way it did in 2016, it will be a...DISASTER.
You would at least acknowledge that Trump is even more "divisive" character in this game.
I would love to see an election confronting the two extremes in the game.
Just for one reason. It is no longer a time for centrists. If one wants changes, one needs to take some risks and follow real new paths.

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:34 am

Balsamo wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:19 am
They would choose to stay home.
That was one of the issues in 2016....voters didn’t turn out enough to counteract the Republican bloc from the rural counties. Trump won by very slim margins...helped by lower voter turnout and “protest” votes that went to third-party candidates.
I just hope that those {!#%@} divided Democrats will get together around the future candidate who'll win the primaries fairly.
Amen to that (sez the atheist..... :D).

No whining, get out and vote FFS. Realize that the stakes are higher than personal animus towards a particular candidate.

I honestly have no stake in any of the Democratic candidates. I will decide when it gets closer...and then I won’t pout if the candidate I prefer doesn’t make it.
But if the party would choose to play the game the way it did in 2016, it will be a...DISASTER.
Agreed.
You would at least acknowledge that Trump is even more "divisive" character in this game.
Agreed again but if voters out there can’t figure this out then we will get 4 more years.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:06 am

Balsamo:
I understand perfectly, and it is not like i am disagreeing with your diagnosis, it is just that as far as i know, in the presidential election, only votes count.
Not sure what you mean?

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:13 am

as to the two extremes pitted against each other in the next election, sorry, can’t happen ... we have just one extreme, the right ... in electoral politics we have no extreme to oppose them ... we have a very moderate left ... and the right is well supported with networks of organizations, activists, media outlets and donors that the moderate left would die for ... be careful what you wish for
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:20 am

@Balsamo - Trump is not a divisive figure in the Democratic party. He is perhaps one of their main points of unity.

But, no it is not ’72, but as happened in ’72 if the primaries were to give the party Bernie, then the affluent, the techies, the centrists would go on a sitdown strike of sorts.

I don’t know what you mean about superdelegates - they were a nonfactor in ’16. They could play a role this year though.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:50 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:20 am
@Balsamo - Trump is not a divisive figure in the Democratic party. He is perhaps one of their main points of unity.

But, no it is not ’72, but as happened in ’72 if the primaries were to give the party Bernie, then the affluent, the techies, the centrists would go on a sitdown strike of sorts.

I don’t know what you mean about superdelegates - they were a nonfactor in ’16. They could play a role this year though.

And, as above, that's the reality on the ground here at the moment...

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:00 am

One more data point: in January, Gallup asked Democrats and voters who lean Democratic whether they'd prefer that the Democratic party become more moderate or liberal (remember what these words mean in the US context). And Gallup asked Republicans and voters who lean Republican whether they'd prefer that the Republican party become more conservative (again, think of the US context) or moderate.

Over half the "Democratic" respondents said that they'd prefer that the Democratic party be a more moderate party.

And well over half the "Republicans" said that they'd prefer that the Republican party be a more conservative party.

This is not surprising to me.

And this is also where Howard Schultz's quixotic campaign is weird: the US already has a centrist party, and it is the Democratic party.

If, in Balsamo's words, "Even ... a part of those 'neoliberal' democrats would choose to stay home," which is what would happen with a Sanders ticket, it would mean an easier Republican victory in 2020. The Democrats can't win without different wings of the party supporting the candidate: hell, in '16 they couldn't win with different wings of the party supporting the candidate. To say of mass centrist defections that "it is not going to hurt a Sanders ticket, unless they got crazy enough to vote for Trump" is to ignore the makeup of the Democratic party, how the Democrats win - and the party's organizational and other weaknesses.

"The funny part is that those 'Neoliberals' Democrats just discovered that they could not win without the 'Bernie's' side of the same Party." Not really, they would blame the "left" for their defeat, as my friend magically does for Clinton's defeat in '16.

I'm with Balmoral on this one. I mean, it isn't even in doubt IMO. Moral of the story: Democratic prinary voters best not give Sanders enough delegates to win the nomination.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by MikeN » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:50 am

" MikeN's post is more conspiraloonacy, not worth a reply . . . Bernie lost the nomination, life goes on."

My bad It wasn't an 'arrangement'. It was an 'agreement.'
From Wikileaks:
"
This isn't in keeping w the agreement. Since we clearly have some leverage, would be good to flag this for him. I could send a signal via Welch--or did you establish a direct line w him?
"
(search Wikileaks for 'agreement leverage Sanders Mook')

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:17 am

Why would I search for old "news" I am well familiar with?!?!? It was conspiracy thinking then, it is conspiracy pandering now.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:50 am

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Re: Trump will whine!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:52 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:30 pm
“The Radical Left Democrats, working closely with their beloved partner, the Fake News Media, is using every trick in the book to SILENCE a majority of our Country,”

Fox News Pulled Jeanine Pirro’s Show After Her Islamophobic Comments. Trump Wants It Back On.


I guess that's an Islamophobic majority then?
And one that thinks rape is a joke. The so-called president also tweeted, "Keep fighting for Tucker." I think that FOX's only problem, despite some calculated rhetoric, with Pirro and Tucker concerns advertising revenue.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:56 am

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:56 am

"Well, I am not a crook." - Richard Nixon, 17 November 1973

“The president is not a white supremacist.” - White House acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, 17 March 2019
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:57 am

His biography, which I've spent some time with, is quite sad. OTOH he does have an opinion: that sons of privilege are born to run for president. He shared this with us last week.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:59 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:34 am
From an email this morning:

"Apt and commendable criticality from the Washington Post today on Au being a safe place of festering white thought and a horrific record of that (hello white Australia policy). People glamourise or romantize Au sans awareness..."
The Grauniad, too:
There has been extensive, international discussion about the role of the online subculture of the far right in these events – the codes, memes and signals of internet-mediated white supremacy.

There’s been less reflection on the fact that any 28-year-old in Australia has grown up in a period when racism, xenophobia and a hostility to Muslims in particular, were quickly ratcheting up in the country’s public culture.

In the period of the country’s enthusiastic participation in the War on Terror, Islam and Muslims have frequently been treated as public enemies, and hate speech against them has inexorably been normalised.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:21 pm

useful background on "the Mueller report(s)": Why there may be much less — and much more — to the Mueller report than people expect, in which, IMO unfortunately, the author pulls his punches, so to speak, or is strangely charitable toward the Barr appointment - point 3 ("The counterintelligence briefing to the Intelligence Committees") is one that many commentators overlook
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:35 pm

Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by OutOfBreath » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:38 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
Statmec wrote:
I think the major debate among the Dems will be about Israel.
Which makes perfect sense in the context of a US presidential election. :ahoy: :
Well, it's how it works with some people. I remember a couple elections back in local elections in Norway. The right-populists had made a good election, and some voters from my home municipality were interviewed to what they voted and why. They basically said, "you know, because of Israel". You know that local municipal politicians in a municipality outside a minor Norwegian city have much international clout, or Norway in the world for that matter.

(The populists were fishing for the christian right and blustered about always supporting Israel no matter what (conveniently opposing scary muslims as well as the always do.) Anywho)

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:48 pm

Michael Calderone: "Donna Brazile has joined Fox News as a contributor." They deserve each other.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:55 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:38 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
Statmec wrote:
I think the major debate among the Dems will be about Israel.
Which makes perfect sense in the context of a US presidential election. :ahoy: :
Well, it's how it works with some people. I remember a couple elections back in local elections in Norway. The right-populists had made a good election, and some voters from my home municipality were interviewed to what they voted and why. They basically said, "you know, because of Israel". You know that local municipal politicians in a municipality outside a minor Norwegian city have much international clout, or Norway in the world for that matter.

(The populists were fishing for the christian right and blustered about always supporting Israel no matter what (conveniently opposing scary muslims as well as the always do.) Anywho)

Peace
Dan
relevant, in terms of Democratic party politics: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 5e1eec2e1d
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:02 pm

This is the product of a strangely sick mind:
Democrat UAW Local 1112 President David Green ought to get his act together and produce. G.M. let our Country down, but other much better car companies are coming into the U.S. in droves,. I want action on Lordstown fast. Stop complaining and get the job done! 3.8% Unemployment!
Especially in the light of the facts that the Lordstown plant was closed, according to GM at the time, due to product mix business issues (where GM, not the UAW, wants to produce different kinds of vehicles in a time of market flux); that the UAW gave substantial concessions to GM (such as agreeing to a two-tier wage structure) to keep the plant operating; and that it was Trump himself, counting on GM, who advised Lordstown workers not to sell their houses because their economic future would be so bright under the GM-Trump presidency.

It sounds as though Trump is saying that GM needs more concessions from the UAW and Lordstown workers and lower wages/benefits in its plants in order to further the president's reelection campaign. Which is so confusing. This can't be so, not from the populist leader and workingman's hero, Donald Trump. But sure as hell that is what the tweet says.
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Re: Trump won't win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:17 pm

GM also needs to produce more heavy polluters, since environmentally conscious vehicles are a bane on this administration society.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:20 pm

Interesting (as much as a poll can be interesting at this point) polling from Wisconsin:

https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.c ... l-election

* "Biden is Trump’s strongest opponent, with a 54% to 46% lead over Trump. This matchup is the only one that is outside the margin of error. Sanders and Warren both lead Trump with a 52% to 48% split, and Harris and Klobuchar are tied with Trump - all within the margin of error."

* On the Democratic side, with "Sanders holding a strong lead with 39% of the vote, followed by Joe Biden at 24%. In third place, Elizabeth Warren, the only other candidate in double digits, is at 14%." O'Rourke, Klobuchar, and Harris within margin of error around 4-6%.
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Re: Trump won't win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:20 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:17 pm
GM also needs to produce more heavy polluters, since environmentally conscious vehicles are a bane on this administration society.
I believe many people are saying that this is the UAW's responsibility.
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:25 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:55 pm
OutOfBreath wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:38 pm
Balsamo wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 pm
Statmec wrote:
I think the major debate among the Dems will be about Israel.
Which makes perfect sense in the context of a US presidential election. :ahoy: :
Well, it's how it works with some people. I remember a couple elections back in local elections in Norway. The right-populists had made a good election, and some voters from my home municipality were interviewed to what they voted and why. They basically said, "you know, because of Israel". You know that local municipal politicians in a municipality outside a minor Norwegian city have much international clout, or Norway in the world for that matter.

(The populists were fishing for the christian right and blustered about always supporting Israel no matter what (conveniently opposing scary muslims as well as the always do.) Anywho)

Peace
Dan
relevant, in terms of Democratic party politics: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 5e1eec2e1d
This it?

https://forward.com/fast-forward/421018 ... -congress/
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:56 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:56 am
"Well, I am not a crook." - Richard Nixon, 17 November 1973

“The president is not a white supremacist.” - White House acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, 17 March 2019
...and he added, "I'm not sure how many times we have to say that." - And that doesn't give him/them pause?


(...and keep in mind it's normal, everyday people asking that pesky question, not the conspiraloons...)
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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:48 pm
Michael Calderone: "Donna Brazile has joined Fox News as a contributor." They deserve each other.
Agreed... What an arsehole....

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:05 am

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Trump will win!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:12 am

some fine Christian gentlemen and women here
. . . all right we are two nations . . .