Elie Wiesel

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 21, 2017 7:51 pm

And obsessive . . .
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 21, 2017 8:05 pm

Too bad for Ian that Wiesel's identity has been fully confirmed so he is reduced to discussing the identity of the camera. Well, as long as it keeps him off the streets...

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun May 21, 2017 8:07 pm

If he keeps it up his mom is going to ground him from the wifi. Again.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 21, 2017 8:10 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:Too bad for Ian that Wiesel's identity has been fully confirmed so he is reduced to discussing the identity of the camera. Well, as long as it keeps him off the streets...
But Ian has told us that that camera is all he cares about, well, D-H's guess about it . . . such a rich life Ian leads.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Ian Hazard » Sun May 21, 2017 9:02 pm

For the umpteenth time, all I want to know is this: How do you, Denying-History, know the camera used in the making of that film was a "cheap camera". Tell us the make and model and we will decide whether it was a cheap camera or not.

Stop dodging the question.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 21, 2017 9:05 pm

He's not online right now, dumbass.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Sergey_Romanov » Sun May 21, 2017 9:06 pm

Thug life.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Denying-History » Sun May 21, 2017 10:05 pm

Ian Hazard wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Ian Hazard wrote:
Denying-History wrote: I also don't really see providing the make and model being worth my time, as all the videos which try to show Elie doesn't have a damn tattoo are shown in 360p. One of the lowest qualitys on YouTube.

I find it funny that you push that I claim to know the camera type but I don't, if you have read any of the comments I clearly say that the film quality is complete {!#%@}.
Denying-History wrote: Perhaps you missed the point of this, it was a cheap camera... This means that it was poor quality recording wise.
I'll take this as an admission you have lied to me and attempted to mislead the forum regarding the camera. You have claimed it was a cheap camera. That implies you must know the model type. Otherwise how could you have known it was a cheap camera?

What has the quality of the video on YouTube got to do with the quality the camera is actually capable of producing? Are you now compounding your original lie by suggesting this camera can only film at a maximum resolution of 360p?
Hey Ian, what model did Eric use to record his Treblinka film? What you don't know? Oh well it's totally not like you can tell the quality of the film from the upload quality. :roll:

Or could it just be that deniers perposly upload the footage in 360p?

No Ian it implies no such thing. Based on the footage deniers use its awkward angles and an over exposed shot. I have explained this before.

Now instead of dissapearing for months on end to only come back to cause issues over a dead mans tattoo. A man with hardly any impact on the actual quality of the historical research. (Why not complain about an easier target like Blaha?) Just admit the quality of the footage is shitty.

If you don't agree that the quality of this shot is dishonest, then I have nothing else to say to you.

Image

It's a shitty quality 360p reupload into a 'documentary' which is heavily saturated.

If you want to ignore all the clear quality photographs here which show a tattoo then you are just fooling yourself. Aaron's should have ended this, but for some unknown reason you wish to continue this petty issue of camera model. I don't have the camera model, but from the footage quality it's quite clear that 360p is not labeled as HD on youtube in fact it's the 3rd worst upload quality... That alone should tell you something and it implies two things.

A) Deniers are uploading shitty quality videos from the documentary on purpose.

Or

B) The camera was SHITTY.

Giving the uploader of any of the videos a benefit of the doubt, the Camera was shitty. Cause clearly when it's not a shitty camera his Tattoo appears just fine:

Image

Also the Tattoo is quite faded is you look at it. That tends to happen over a period of 60+ years.

Also mind that footage from that period is no where close to modern quality. So the assumption is quite clear here. The camera was ether {!#%@} awful or deniers are being dishonest.
Yawn!

I've told you before I am not a Holocaust revisionist. I don't care one way or the other if Elie Wiesel has a tattoo or not.
You are a revisionist, in my opinion, I saw your posts on Rodoh well before you went silent there. You were quite friendly with Fish. But this is completely irrelevant to the issue as my targeting was that giving deniers (not you) the benefit of the doubt would lead to the image quality being {!#%@}.

As for Elies Tattoo, you obviously do care considering you keep resurrecting this pointless chat about a man who died almost a year ago on July 2. Why you keep coming back to this issue if you didn't care simply proves my point from the last time you were here. You want to grave dig.
Ian Hazard wrote:For the umpteenth time all I want to know is this: How do you know the camera used in the making of that film was a "cheap camera". Tell us the make and model and we will decide whether it was a cheap camera or not.

Stop dodging the question.
I never dodged it, and have admitted relentlessly that I do not know the model, and I have never claimed to know the camera's model. But have explained my reasoning behind why the camera is {!#%@}. I left my answer above. You don't like it then you can leave.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 21, 2017 11:05 pm

Denying-History wrote:You were quite friendly with Fish.
Now that is what is called an understatement.
Denying-History wrote:I never dodged it, and have admitted relentlessly that I do not know the model, and I have never claimed to know the camera's model. But have explained my reasoning behind why the camera is {!#%@}. I left my answer above. You don't like it then you can leave.
Like Fish-Traynor, Fish-Hazard knows nothing about the history of the period we discuss here but posts nothing but insults, racist swill, self-righteous nonsense, and parodic lectures - as always, it's fun to have the fully demented Mr Albert with us.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Denying-History » Mon May 22, 2017 1:15 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:>> all I want to know is this: How do you know the camera used in the making of that film was a "cheap camera"

Big ambitions, huh? One thing I want to know, relevant to this thread, is how many times D-H must answer this same question?
My question is why does he keep return after months of solitude only to complain about a camera question I answered 5 months ago...
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Ian Hazard » Mon May 22, 2017 1:57 pm

How do you know it was a cheap camera without knowing the model type?

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 22, 2017 1:58 pm

How do we know you're a moron? Inference. Based on your posts.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Denying-History » Mon May 22, 2017 2:07 pm

Ian Hazard wrote:How do you know it was a cheap camera without knowing the model type?
If you want to ignore all the clear quality photographs here which show a tattoo then you are just fooling yourself. Aaron's should have ended this, but for some unknown reason, you wish to continue this petty issue of the camera model. I don't have the camera model, but from the footage quality it's quite clear that 360p is not labeled as HD on youtube in fact it's the 3rd worst upload quality... That alone should tell you something and it implies two things.

A) Deniers are uploading shitty quality videos from the documentary on purpose.

Or

B) The camera was SHITTY.

Giving the uploader of any of the videos a benefit of the doubt, the Camera was shitty...
All the footage I have found from the documentary is in the 360p quality... even footage uploaded by those who are not deniers. Also mind you have invented this whole claim that I "lied" about knowing the camera model when I have never made such an assertion.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:39 pm

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chron.co ... 417040.php

Alerted to this by a post on FG’s Blog, I won’t post her disrespectful attitude towards this survivor.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Balmoral95 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:19 am

The dried old cow at FG notwithstanding, the woman is dead. Doesn't matter.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:07 am

Not sure where else to put this....

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/health/w ... index.html

Rest In Peace.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Denying-History » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:33 am

Not used to this topic being revived by anyone but Ian.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:10 pm

Denying-History wrote:Not used to this topic being revived by anyone but Ian.
I didn’t want to open a new topic so I used this one.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by BRoI » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:48 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.chron.co ... 417040.php

Alerted to this by a post on FG’s Blog, I won’t post her disrespectful attitude towards this survivor.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Not sure where else to put this....

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/health/w ... index.html

Rest In Peace.
So, Anthony Acevedo, former PoW. This is from another article about his claims:
[...] Morton Goldstein, a member of Jack Vogel’s division—tried to get away but were also caught. “Goldstein’s body was returned here today for burial,” Acevedo noted in his diary. “He was shot while attempting to Re-escape. So they say but actually [he] was recaptured and shot thru the head.” Metz pulled the trigger.

https://www.amherst.edu/amherst-story/m ... fall/vogel
His diary does say that, but the final sentence was clearly added later.

Image
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/ca ... C876%2C428


During his trial, Erwin Metz admitted to killing the American PoW Morton Goldstein:
Evidence for the Prosecution: Killing [...] About a kilometer from the work camp, according to the accused, Goldstein sought to escape when the accused stopped to talk to a civilian, The accused asserted he yelled "halt", four times and then fired two shots with his pistol. Goldstein was at least 30 meters away and running at the moment of firing (R 14; P-Ex 1, p. 4). One shot entered the head and the other the back (R 48; P-Ex 4, pp. 2,3).

Deputy Judge Advocate's Office
Review and Recommendations r.e. US vs. Erwin Metz et al. [tried at Dachau 03.09.46 - 15.10.46]
Case No. 12-1836
15 September 1947
Forensic evidence presented at the trial fully supported Metz' testimony
Evidence for the Prosecution: Killing [...] A pathologist who examined the bodies of American prisoners of war at Berga found one corresponding to the description of Goldstein with a bullet wound in the head and in the back. He stated that the bullets were fired "from rather a distance" (R 62, 516, 517; P-Ex 18, p. 3). A ballistic expert stated that the bullets found in the body were fired from a distance greater than 50 feet (R 522; D-Ex 13, p,2).
The pathologist was Major Herman Bolker, of the US Army MC. He also testified at the Hadamar trial.
Careful study of autopsy results concluded that the prisoner killed in Charge 1 was shot by Metz at a distance greater than 50 feet, lending credibility to his declaration that he had to load his pistol in order to fire at the escaping prisoner. Without solid evidence to tie Metz to an illegal killing, an opportunity was provided for subsequent review boards to modify the sentences of both defendants. Metz' sentence was commuted to 15 years and Merz' to 5 years in prison.

- Wesley Vincent Hilton,The Blackest Canvas: U.S. Army Courts and the Trials Of War Criminals In Post-World War II Europe, p.250
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by BRoI » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:44 am

CNN wrote:
It was February 8, 1945, when they arrived. The camp was known as Berga an der Elster. The soldiers, Acevedo said, were given 100 grams of bread per week made of redwood sawdust, ground glass and barley. Soup was made from cats and rats.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/08/heal ... index.html
No mention of cat & rat soup or ground-glass and sawdust bread in his diary.



"Us medics went down to the SS Kitchen for our food. - On our way back we were surprised to meet a British Red Cross trucks with Red Cross Packages for our men. This was a very busy day."
21 March 1945 [image 11]

Red Cross packages still haven't been distributed to the prisoners. They're all thinking of the delicious foods they may contain, but most of the prisoners hoping they contain cigarettes.
23 March 1945 [image 12]

Packages still under lock and key. Hoping to get them ASAP to stop the prisoners dying, especially "those invalid diet"
24 March 1945 [image 12]

Going to church, it's Palm Sunday
25 March 1945 [image 13]

Packages released! "the boys are as happy as kids! I was just hoping as well as the rest of the medics not to have a big sick call the following days with stomach ache."
26 March 1945 [image 13]

"This morning us medics got together and ate scrambled eggs + sausages from our Red Cross boxes[.] Boy did we enjoy it."
27 March 1945 [image 13]

"Steve Schweitzer was made librarian and received some books from the Red Cross. We thanked God we had something decent to read." More Red Cross packages due on Easter Sunday.
28 March 1945 [image 13]

"Holy Thursday[.] Us medics still bring the chow for our men. - 3 o'clock in the morning we go for coffee or tea - at 11.00 we march out for soup hoping to it will be potato soup or oat meal and at night we go for more coffee and bread is given out + butter (margarine) + marmalade."
29 March 1945 [image 13-14]

Good Friday. Thoughts are with those back home. It's also the Feast of the Passover. Jewish comrades are also thinking of home and family.
30 March 1945 [image 15]

Holy Saturday. Lent and fasting ends at noon. But non applicable to us "we have been fasting since December 31, 1944"
31 March 1945 [image 16]

East Sunday - "Our men don't work today, thus Red Cross boxes are given out"
1 April 1945 [image 16]

Rumoured that moving soon
3 April 1945 [17]

Def. moving soon
4 April 1945 [17]

Travelled c.25 kms to another camp. Medics rode with the sick men.
6 April 1945 [17]

Frightened by the prospect of today's 25km walk.
7 April 1945 [21]

Marched 10 km today.
8 April 1945 [21]

Soup was better today. PoW Stanley Cohen purchased 500lbs of potatoes
10 April 1945 [22]

Stuck in the same place due to USAF. Bread ration cut to 10 men per loaf and 22 men to #10 can of meat
11 April 1945 [22]

Was on burning detail today. Had to hide in the woods when USAF starting strafing the roads.
12 April 1945 [22]

Prayers said for FDR's passing.
13 April 1945 [23]

Everyone's infected with body lice
14 April 1945 [23]

More marching. "drew a ration of bread[,] meat and marmalade for three days."
15 April 1945 [24]

Marched all day. "Drew one days ration of meat and marmalade"
16 April 1945 [24]

Marching. Got split up from the guards. Spent the night in a barn "the people treated us very fine. Coffee was given to us and also bread. "the next morning: hot coffee - milk and hot spuds were given to me and the fellows"
19 April 1945 [25]

At midnight on the 22nd, arrived at a barn and was given hot cooked spuds. Tea was given out in the morning. Bread and meat ration: 5 men to a loaf and 5 men to a can of meat. "by 11:30 + 12:00 pea soup was given out boy it was great while not having something to eat" "I was waiting in line for seconds in soup" when we heard US troops shooting nearby. The guards told us to move out, but the prisoners decided to stay in the barn. Some guards fled, others surrendered to the prisoners. PoW were liberated by US Army.
20, 21, 22 April 1945 [35-36]
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:53 am

BRoI wrote: During his trial, Erwin Metz admitted to killing the American PoW Morton Goldstein:
Evidence for the Prosecution: Killing [...] About a kilometer from the work camp, according to the accused, Goldstein sought to escape when the accused stopped to talk to a civilian, The accused asserted he yelled "halt", four times and then fired two shots with his pistol. Goldstein was at least 30 meters away and running at the moment of firing (R 14; P-Ex 1, p. 4). One shot entered the head and the other the back (R 48; P-Ex 4, pp. 2,3).

Forensic evidence presented at the trial fully supported Metz' testimony
Evidence for the Prosecution: Killing [...] A pathologist who examined the bodies of American prisoners of war at Berga found one corresponding to the description of Goldstein with a bullet wound in the head and in the back. He stated that the bullets were fired "from rather a distance" (R 62, 516, 517; P-Ex 18, p. 3). A ballistic expert stated that the bullets found in the body were fired from a distance greater than 50 feet (R 522; D-Ex 13, p,2).
Thanks at least for mentioning Berga. The name wasn't in my memory bank, but yesterday at the library I came across the PBS documentary with that title. So, I've brought it home to watch today, part of my continuing effort to educate myself in Holocaust Studies. I'm way behind the rest of the people on this board. I'll see what I can make of it. Meanwhile, Metz claims to have hit a running target 30 meters away with two pistol shots? Not impossible, but if it's true, the guy should have joined Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show.

And thanks also for mentioning Acevedo's diary, which I have now read in full. So, if you were keeping such a diary in a prison camp, with constant danger of discovery, you'd be sure to record every atrocity of your captors, wouldn't you? Sure you would!

You're saying Acevedo later decided to lie about the soup. There's no evidence for that. Try to remember that the absence of evidence for it in the diary is hardly proof that he was lying later on.

The line about Goldstein being shot at close range does look like it was added later. Well, don't you sometimes edit what you have written? You imply that this was added maybe years later, not the same day, after reflection. But let's discount that; if Acevedo did add it later, his memory may have been faulty.

You are curiously silent about the number of places in the diary where he records that prisoners who couldn't march were shot in cold blood, and that the Germans only stopped doing that when they were faced with the immediate prospect of being overrun by the Americans. You cherry-pick the entries where he mentions receiving Red Cross rations, but the prisoners could not have survived on just those rations, particularly as they were withheld for extended periods of time after being received at the camp. What were they fed when the Germans were feeding them?
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:10 pm

“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:06 pm

Dolfie and Elie sharing space in the infernal regions? Don't really make much sense.

Not really sure the story merits attention of the BBC.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:16 pm

good paper in the Microhistories collection (mentioned in Books thread) by Kenneth Waltzer using ITS and Shoah Foundation video archive to sketch out the fates of mostly Hungarian Jewish boys taken to Buna in 1944, then to Buchenwald in January 1945, among these boys Elie Wiesel; focus is on what the archival sources say about survival strategies and in particular pairing up of prisoners (usually with a relative or former neighbor) and small groups as source of support and strength
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:36 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Elie Wiesel passed away, today.
It's sad that we are losing survivors at an ever increasing pace.
The Revisionist Point of View.. recap
In the 1970's, the stories passed down about the WW-2 German prison camps were welded together into a narrative we now call "the Holocaust" - meaning "the burnt offering." Through telling and re-telling, the Holocaust has grown to a multi-million dollar industry, and has changed to mean something particular to Jewish history. It has been used to found a nation (Israel), and to justify many exceptions to morality.
If the Holocaust narrative is false, the ramifications are far reaching. Ethnic Germans have been slandered for decades on the basis of the Holocaust. Terrorism used in the founding of Israel was justified through it. It was even used to justify the slaughter, rape, and murder of millions of ethnic Germans after World War 2.
Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps.

The Russian Holocaust
The Holocaust in Russia refers to the Nazi crimes during the occupation of Russia (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) by National Socialist Germany. This has very little to do with the alleged Shoah with the only concern being the 30 million who perished in the "Great Patriotic War"


Auschwitz inmate Miklos Gruner, 87, says the real "Elie Wiesel" doesn't exist.
In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother and father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately gassed after their arrival in the camp.

Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where his father died six months later.

After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.
Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted by the Swedish journal Sydsvenska Dagbladet in Malmo and invited to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713. Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar.
Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos' old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "Un di Velt hot Gesvigen", meaning approximately "The World Kept Silent". Miklos Gruner
The questions of the authenticity of this person is put into serious question.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:47 pm

:yawn:
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:57 pm

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Elie Wiesel passed away, today.
It's sad that we are losing survivors at an ever increasing pace.
The Revisionist Point of View.. recap
In the 1970's, the stories passed down about the WW-2 German prison camps were welded together into a narrative we now call "the Holocaust" - meaning "the burnt offering." Through telling and re-telling, the Holocaust has grown to a multi-million dollar industry, and has changed to mean something particular to Jewish history. It has been used to found a nation (Israel), and to justify many exceptions to morality.
If the Holocaust narrative is false, the ramifications are far reaching. Ethnic Germans have been slandered for decades on the basis of the Holocaust. Terrorism used in the founding of Israel was justified through it. It was even used to justify the slaughter, rape, and murder of millions of ethnic Germans after World War 2.
Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps.

The Russian Holocaust
The Holocaust in Russia refers to the Nazi crimes during the occupation of Russia (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) by National Socialist Germany. This has very little to do with the alleged Shoah with the only concern being the 30 million who perished in the "Great Patriotic War"


Auschwitz inmate Miklos Gruner, 87, says the real "Elie Wiesel" doesn't exist.
In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother and father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately gassed after their arrival in the camp.

Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where his father died six months later.

After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.
Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted by the Swedish journal Sydsvenska Dagbladet in Malmo and invited to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713. Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar.
Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos' old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "Un di Velt hot Gesvigen", meaning approximately "The World Kept Silent". Miklos Gruner
The questions of the authenticity of this person is put into serious question.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:02 pm

montgomery wrote:
VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Elie Wiesel passed away, today.
It's sad that we are losing survivors at an ever increasing pace.
The Revisionist Point of View.. recap
In the 1970's, the stories passed down about the WW-2 German prison camps were welded together into a narrative we now call "the Holocaust" - meaning "the burnt offering." Through telling and re-telling, the Holocaust has grown to a multi-million dollar industry, and has changed to mean something particular to Jewish history. It has been used to found a nation (Israel), and to justify many exceptions to morality.
If the Holocaust narrative is false, the ramifications are far reaching. Ethnic Germans have been slandered for decades on the basis of the Holocaust. Terrorism used in the founding of Israel was justified through it. It was even used to justify the slaughter, rape, and murder of millions of ethnic Germans after World War 2.
Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps.

The Russian Holocaust
The Holocaust in Russia refers to the Nazi crimes during the occupation of Russia (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) by National Socialist Germany. This has very little to do with the alleged Shoah with the only concern being the 30 million who perished in the "Great Patriotic War"


Auschwitz inmate Miklos Gruner, 87, says the real "Elie Wiesel" doesn't exist.
In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother and father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately gassed after their arrival in the camp.

Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where his father died six months later.

After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.
Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted by the Swedish journal Sydsvenska Dagbladet in Malmo and invited to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713. Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar.
Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos' old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "Un di Velt hot Gesvigen", meaning approximately "The World Kept Silent". Miklos Gruner
The questions of the authenticity of this person is put into serious question.
Thanks for this piece you've taken the time to present here VFX. This is the sort of information that speaks loudly as evidence and should invite a decent rebuttal. But alas, eggs just continues to spam the forum. You should consider him useful to 'your' cause at least!

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:07 pm

:sleep:
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Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:23 pm

Really. Such new and interesting ideas!
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:26 pm

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Elie Wiesel passed away, today.
It's sad that we are losing survivors at an ever increasing pace.
The Revisionist Point of View.. recap
In the 1970's, the stories passed down about the WW-2 German prison camps were welded together into a narrative we now call "the Holocaust" - meaning "the burnt offering." Through telling and re-telling, the Holocaust has grown to a multi-million dollar industry, and has changed to mean something particular to Jewish history. It has been used to found a nation (Israel), and to justify many exceptions to morality.
If the Holocaust narrative is false, the ramifications are far reaching. Ethnic Germans have been slandered for decades on the basis of the Holocaust. Terrorism used in the founding of Israel was justified through it. It was even used to justify the slaughter, rape, and murder of millions of ethnic Germans after World War 2.
Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps.

The Russian Holocaust
The Holocaust in Russia refers to the Nazi crimes during the occupation of Russia (Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic) by National Socialist Germany. This has very little to do with the alleged Shoah with the only concern being the 30 million who perished in the "Great Patriotic War"


Auschwitz inmate Miklos Gruner, 87, says the real "Elie Wiesel" doesn't exist.
In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother and father as well as a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately gassed after their arrival in the camp.

Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where his father died six months later.

After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.
Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted by the Swedish journal Sydsvenska Dagbladet in Malmo and invited to meet "an old friend" named Elie Wiesel... As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713. Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar.
Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos' old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title "Un di Velt hot Gesvigen", meaning approximately "The World Kept Silent". Miklos Gruner
The questions of the authenticity of this person is put into serious question.
I can't tell if you are merely reporting these insane rantings or endorsing them. Please tell me it's the former.
"We survivors did not seek death. We did not take to the streets when our Jewish friends were taken away. We didn’t raise an outcry until we ourselves were being annihilated. We preferred to remain alive, with the flimsy though accurate excuse that our death would not have helped. We are guilty of being alive."

Karl Jaspers (1883–1968), at the re-opening of Heidelberg University, 1945

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Really. Such new and interesting ideas!
These two meatheads almost make me miss LGR. :lol:

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:31 pm

He was at least inventive.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:He was at least inventive.
The evidence balmoral and you have presented in these two last posts fail to refute VFX's post. To an interested skeptic, those two posts may actually serve to reinforce VFX's information. :oops:

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:He was at least inventive.
Indeed. And he knew basic stuff, eg, the difference between "assertion" and "evidence". :roll:

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:41 pm

But this one invented the double post (again) to get his post count up. He prolly wants to be as valued as Rizoli.* ;)




* :hmm: At least I think one of them kept harping away on the automatic status. But there were so many of like kind... :roll:
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:48 pm

VFX, in the absence of any rational rebuttal I'm inclined to accept your evidence as the facts of the issue you addressed. In fairness, I would have to do the same for Nessie. Sadly, some of the others can't accept that their bad manners aren't going to work anymore.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:49 pm

:yawn:


S/he's easy, innit.
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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:40 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
I can't tell if you are merely reporting these insane rantings or endorsing them. Please tell me it's the former.
I report these, with no bias and wait for evidence to suggest other wise. The fact that people may not like them doesn't mean that they will go away, they will not. At this moment they are not endorsed but needs discussing. I find here that many people say this is proven, that is a fact... blah blah blah, call the post an idiiot etc, but fail to give alternative information or evidence. Your reflective thoughts on this Wiesel issue would be appreciated thank you Upton.

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Re: Elie Wiesel

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:47 pm

montgomery wrote:VFX, in the absence of any rational rebuttal I'm inclined to accept your evidence as the facts of the issue you addressed. In fairness, I would have to do the same for Nessie. Sadly, some of the others can't accept that their bad manners aren't going to work anymore.
Indeed Monty, the issue is important to post at RODOH, where there will be some reflection and deep thought from people who really are interested in "real" history. As I am not biased it is not personal to me if Wiesel is a Weasel, Stoat , Ferret or what other identity it might assume. As there is no evidence to suggest that the Auschwitz inmates claims of identity theft is not credible, then the assertion that this man makes must be given the weighting it deserves. One must look at this other mans claims in more detail and weigh up why he might make up false allegations.
In the interim, the claim that Elie Wiesel is an impostor stands.