The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Thu May 26, 2016 4:19 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:Jeff:

>"Stop talking about switching trains. You've lost on that one."

Indeed, but the over-arching question of this thread is that the Jews went somewhere by train from the B,S,T "transit camps"... so, Monstrous, where did these Jewish trains go? And "Jews went where Jews are" is an unacceptable answer as is the "White Sea region".
With proof. Not a link to CODOH or whatever but a description of the evidence (yes, with citations) for wherever Monstrous believes Jews went and an explanation of how it supports his belief.
we are liberal on citations. He just has to explain where he got his info from and post a link if necessary - AFTER he explains his thesis. Preferably no links to denier sites. No metapedia. And no insane, imbecilic speculation like we saw in this thread.
Well, since the Allies destroyed the outbound trains records, exactly where is not easy to answer.

Oh,
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_demographics
The allies did no such thing. You have failed to provide the slightest proof for such an act.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Thu May 26, 2016 4:21 pm

And I said no metapedia

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu May 26, 2016 4:29 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:And I said no metapedia
D-H said it exactly right: he needs to stop spamming links to whatever, and instead provide an argument citing support for it.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Thu May 26, 2016 4:36 pm

is he gonna actually argue something or is he just going to bitch about whatever?

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Denying-History » Thu May 26, 2016 4:47 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:is he gonna actually argue something or is he just going to bitch about whatever?
He's just going to bitch.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:40 pm

"Vernichtung the evil rumor that Monstrous does not read books!!!"

Monstrous need to read real books, not books only useful to line bird cages.

Why is it when I read your posts I think of the Cookie Monster?

You are right about one thing. The SS did collect the valuables and clothes from the Jews at the Action Reinhard Camps and sent them back to the West.
After all, the Nazis didn't like the Jews but they did like their valuables and really, dead people don't need clothes or family heirlooms.

Mary Q Contrary:
"If nobody is going to even look for evidence that hundreds of thousands of bodies were buried in the camps at one time, we can safely assume that hundreds of thousands of Jews weren't killed at these camps."

You are incorrect. The Poles investigated the sites after the war and found ash, body parts, bones, etc. There were archeological digs at Belzec in the late 90's that used probes to determine the location of mass graves and there are on-going investigations at Sobibor and Treblinka.
A simple google search will confirm what I am saying.

Another avenue of research for you and Monstrous to explore if you really believe these were transit camps is the existence of correspondence between the Wehrmacht and the SS. In order to move that amount of people East you would need the coordination between the transports and the military.
Also, I think if any of this were true you would find personnel records detailing the assignment of guards and commanders.
See, I just helped you out. Naturally these camps were death camps, not transit camps. But I did give you avanues for you to explore.
Let us know the results of your research.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:54 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:"Vernichtung the evil rumor that Monstrous does not read books!!!"

Monstrous need to read real books, not books only useful to line bird cages.

Why is it when I read your posts I think of the Cookie Monster?

You are right about one thing. The SS did collect the valuables and clothes from the Jews at the Action Reinhard Camps and sent them back to the West.
After all, the Nazis didn't like the Jews but they did like their valuables and really, dead people don't need clothes or family heirlooms.
And they liked counting the loot and bragging about what they stole:
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.mazal. ... 59-000.htm
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.mazal. ... 57-000.htm
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.mazal. ... 60-000.htm
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.mazal. ... 55-000.htm
http://www.phdn.org/archives/www.mazal. ... 61-000.htm
http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/arloot.htm

Somehow Monstrous believes that stealing from people what they need to live on is incompatible with killing them. If he thinks Globocnik and others despoiling the Jews is news to us, he might want to read an old post like this one.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Mary Q Contrary:
"If nobody is going to even look for evidence that hundreds of thousands of bodies were buried in the camps at one time, we can safely assume that hundreds of thousands of Jews weren't killed at these camps."

You are incorrect. The Poles investigated the sites after the war and found ash, body parts, bones, etc. There were archeological digs at Belzec in the late 90's that used probes to determine the location of mass graves and there are on-going investigations at Sobibor and Treblinka.
A simple google search will confirm what I am saying.
Mary has read enough posts on this to have learned how to ignore whatever is shown here contrary to her beliefs.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Another avenue of research for you and Monstrous to explore if you really believe these were transit camps is the existence of correspondence between the Wehrmacht and the SS. In order to move that amount of people East you would need the coordination between the transports and the military.
Also, I think if any of this were true you would find personnel records detailing the assignment of guards and commanders.
See, I just helped you out. Naturally these camps were death camps, not transit camps. But I did give you avanues for you to explore.
Let us know the results of your research.
Good thought - I hope Monstrous will take you up on this.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Monstrous » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:22 pm

"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:25 pm

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset


1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:32 pm)

All the departure lists have just been either destroyed or hidden by the industry, it's all pretty basic stuff.
Top
Yup, that's what happened.

:lol:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Nessie » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:10 pm

Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f ... =45#p77856

"Why would the Germans have released the Jews transferred to Far Eastern Europe? To strenghten the aid to the Partisans in their warfare against Germany? Makes no sense. Seems logical those Jews were transferred to guarded ghettos and camps until the end of the war. The word 'resettlement' doesn't imply release. One can resettle a group of people in a detention area, at least temporarily. The Madagascar Plan provided for nothing else but a mass resettlement in a large detention area on a permanent basis."

So the claim is they were resettled in ghettos and camps in the east. But there is no evidence of nearly 3 million extra people arriving at Majdanek, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Maly Trostenets or any other camp from Sobibor, Belzec, Chelmno and TII. Nor is there evidence from those camp populations that they ever held that amount of people. Then, to stop all those people falling into Soviet hands to assist their war effort, we would expect evidence of millions being transited back west, but there is none.

Meanwhile the ghettos in the east, such as Riga, Minsk, Bialystok, Lvov, Warsaw and Lublin saw their populations decrease as the war went on. So the extra Jews were not there.

Not at the camps, not at the ghettos, deniers may as well claim they did go to Madagascar, for all the evidence they have.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:30 pm

Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OUTBOUND TRAINS!!! DID YOU SEE THE RECORDS I POSTED!??!?!?!

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:12 pm

LOL
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:43 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL
apologies, I was just a little frazzled.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:04 am

Point made, point clear, exasperation warranted :)
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Point made, point clear, exasperation warranted :)
I mean it was right here among other places.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Xcalibur » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:31 am

Hold the phone... used to be the twats argued the big H never happened because the Hun did't have the rolling stock or fuel to pull it off... so now the Hun is shipping Jews another few hundred miles into the Russian east without proper basic logistics? i'll be really happy when just two of these chimps gets on the same page.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:08 am

Xcalibur wrote:Hold the phone... used to be the twats argued the big H never happened because the Hun did't have the rolling stock or fuel to pull it off... so now the Hun is shipping Jews another few hundred miles into the Russian east without proper basic logistics? i'll be really happy when just two of these chimps gets on the same page.
a mid-air chimp collision lol

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:09 am

Xcalibur wrote:Hold the phone... used to be the twats argued the big H never happened because the Hun did't have the rolling stock or fuel to pull it off... so now the Hun is shipping Jews another few hundred miles into the Russian east without proper basic logistics? i'll be really happy when just two of these chimps gets on the same page.
I'm sure the German military was thrilled by a bunch of Jews suddenly being dropped into their laps. Jews they considered to be partisans or the force behind partisans.
Naturally it's nonsense, deniers don't want us to look too closely at the whole "transit camp" theory, it's why they get so testy about it.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:03 pm

I think we've actually looked at the "resettlement" claim more closely than chimps have. They've got almost nothing to say about it.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Monstrous » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:07 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OUTBOUND TRAINS!!! DID YOU SEE THE RECORDS I POSTED!??!?!?!
What records? What post? As real as the outbound records...

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:22 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OUTBOUND TRAINS!!! DID YOU SEE THE RECORDS I POSTED!??!?!?!
What records? What post? As real as the outbound records...
That's right. No outbound records because they were death camps, not transit camps.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Monstrous » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OUTBOUND TRAINS!!! DID YOU SEE THE RECORDS I POSTED!??!?!?!
What records? What post? As real as the outbound records...
That's right. No outbound records because they were death camps, not transit camps.
So what happened to the inbound trains that never left the camps? Were they also buried in magically disappearing mass grave pits?

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:37 pm

It's been posted upthread. Jeff_36 even linked to one such post.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Monstrous » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:06 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:OTOH there is positive evidence that the deportations trains didn’t continue east or to the White Sea or to Madagascar from Treblinka:

Ganzenmüller To Wolff reference their phone call of 7 July 1942: “a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka”

Karl’s 12 April 1943 work report on “Escorting the Jewish Transports”: “final destination, Treblinka (the camp),
Fahrplanordnungen, including no. 548 (YVA P26/126): “From 6 August 1942 runs daily until further still, a special train with evacuees from Warsaw to Treblinka Danz Bf and empty train back as follows” with also a handwritten note reading “Return empty “
A non-German source is stationmaster Zabecki: “all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers’”
No evidence for that they were killed at Treblinka here. May as well have changed trains at Treblinka and continued on east or even back into the GG.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:15 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:OTOH there is positive evidence that the deportations trains didn’t continue east or to the White Sea or to Madagascar from Treblinka:

Ganzenmüller To Wolff reference their phone call of 7 July 1942: “a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka”

Karl’s 12 April 1943 work report on “Escorting the Jewish Transports”: “final destination, Treblinka (the camp),
Fahrplanordnungen, including no. 548 (YVA P26/126): “From 6 August 1942 runs daily until further still, a special train with evacuees from Warsaw to Treblinka Danz Bf and empty train back as follows” with also a handwritten note reading “Return empty “
A non-German source is stationmaster Zabecki: “all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers’”
No evidence for that they were killed at Treblinka here. May as well have changed trains at Treblinka and continued on east or even back into the GG.
I....:lol:
What?????
So, the Germans sent the Jews to Treblinka, changed their minds and then sent them back?????

:lol:

Monstrous, you do realize there was a war going on, right? You do realize that out of all the goofy things that deniers say the idea that the Jews were sent "to the east" is the goofiest????

I've already detailed why, I'm not going to repeat myself.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:18 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:OTOH there is positive evidence that the deportations trains didn’t continue east or to the White Sea or to Madagascar from Treblinka:

Ganzenmüller To Wolff reference their phone call of 7 July 1942: “a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka”

Karl’s 12 April 1943 work report on “Escorting the Jewish Transports”: “final destination, Treblinka (the camp),
Fahrplanordnungen, including no. 548 (YVA P26/126): “From 6 August 1942 runs daily until further still, a special train with evacuees from Warsaw to Treblinka Danz Bf and empty train back as follows” with also a handwritten note reading “Return empty “
A non-German source is stationmaster Zabecki: “all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers’”
No evidence for that they were killed at Treblinka here. May as well have changed trains at Treblinka and continued on east or even back into the GG.
LOL I didn't post this as conclusive evidence anyone was killed at Treblinka. I posted it to refute your crap about railways. Stop trying to dodge by changing the subject.

This evidence does however raise the little problem that trainloads of Jews (in their 100s of 1000s as we know from still other evidence) were brought to Treblinka, the trains returned empty - so additional evidence is necessary (and we've discussed it in detail) to determine conclusively just what happened to the Jews left at Treblinka.

Anyway, I take your dodge attempt to mean you've given up your silly train argument.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:50 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Monstrous wrote:"Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?"
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2355
BECAUSE THERE WERE NO OUTBOUND TRAINS!!! DID YOU SEE THE RECORDS I POSTED!??!?!?!
What records? What post? As real as the outbound records...
That's right. No outbound records because they were death camps, not transit camps.
So what happened to the inbound trains that never left the camps? Were they also buried in magically disappearing mass grave pits?
They left the camps and returned to Warsaw or their place of origin. This has been explicitly set out in railway records, including those provided by the manager of the Treblinka railway station.

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Re: The Trains to Nowhere -- The Mystery of the Missing Outbound Train Records

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:53 pm

Monstrous wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:OTOH there is positive evidence that the deportations trains didn’t continue east or to the White Sea or to Madagascar from Treblinka:

Ganzenmüller To Wolff reference their phone call of 7 July 1942: “a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka”

Karl’s 12 April 1943 work report on “Escorting the Jewish Transports”: “final destination, Treblinka (the camp),
Fahrplanordnungen, including no. 548 (YVA P26/126): “From 6 August 1942 runs daily until further still, a special train with evacuees from Warsaw to Treblinka Danz Bf and empty train back as follows” with also a handwritten note reading “Return empty “
A non-German source is stationmaster Zabecki: “all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers’”
No evidence for that they were killed at Treblinka here. May as well have changed trains at Treblinka and continued on east or even back into the GG.
We have discussed and dismissed the possibility of train switching being conducted at Treblinka. No such swaps were conducted at any of the transit camps that the transports passed through (including Izbica and Trawikni). There were also no such swaps conducted on actual German transports to the Russian east, like the deportations of German Jews to Minsk and Riga in the winter of 1941-42. The railway platforms at all of the AR camps were not fit to handle multiple trains at once, and the camps were not large enough to accommodate the Jews on the transports if they were to have been made to wait for another train.