Full steam ahead for Treblinka

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:11 pm

David chickened out. Instead of discussing his claims about "steam chambers" in a focused manner in this thread, he's continued to drop drive-by slogans in other threads.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:39 pm

Wasn't "Treblinka steam" one of David's pet tricks?
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:04 pm

That, shrunken heads and the vanishing dead at Majdanek.

Oh, and soap. Can't forget soap. Brave deniers getting tossed into jail.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:15 pm

And Hollywood.

But, David, erm, STEAM dude, let's go . . .
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:34 pm

I think David has found his calling assisting Anglin in his fight against the eternal enemy, the Jew.
I guess we'll have to find other ways to amuse ourselves. On the bright side I've started reading Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939. It's very good, Ulrich is expanding on Hitler's war time experiences which is very interesting. I don't remember Kershaw doing this.

I sense a topic or two but I'll want to consult Rees and Kershaw before I do this.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:07 pm

And I will join in, just having read the book and posted some comments on it :)

STEAM, come on David, STEAM!!!!!!
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:52 pm

I am 100% certain that after going on and on about steam for several years, David never so much as replied in this thread. Brave revisionist hero that he is.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:56 pm

I've given up on David.

We need some new deniers.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:54 pm

in case David makes an appearance, he needs to say, since last I know he still harps on his "steam claim," why he's not open to discussing the articles linked to starting in the OP . . .
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:59 pm

I'm a bit disappointed, David disappeared for over a month and we only got a single reply on the Anne Frank thread.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:20 am

bump for David or maybe Mary the Moron
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:42 pm

David - bwawk bwawk bwawk
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:32 pm

ROTFL
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:00 pm

On contemporary knowledge of Treblinka, this one from Engelking's book caught my attention:

According to postwar testimony of Kalman Krawiec, from the Siemiatycze area (about 75km southwest of Malkinia), during the war a peasant in the locale had murdered a family of Jews in hiding and thrown their bodies into a well. Neighbors were aware of the killing and said of the peasant-murderer that "he had Treblinka in the house." (p 269)
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:48 pm

In the same vein:

After the war two brothers - Józef and Aleksander Hryć - from Piaski-Chojewo, in the Brańsk region (~70km due east of Malkinia), were accused by a number of Jews of murdering, for their property, Jews who had been in hiding in the area. Many of the witnesses testified in a Bialystok court during the late 1940s about the notorious "Rycz" brothers who had, with an accomplice named Jan Kamiński, a local official, perpetrated numerous murders of Jews during the war. In 1948, Kamiński was convicted of murder and sentenced to life imprisonment. The Hryć brothers, claiming among other things mistaken identity, were never convicted.

During the 1940s proceedings, one witness, Jankiel Rubin, testified about Hryćs and Kamiński that it "was the general opinion of local residents that the Hryć [brothers] and Kamiński took part in murdering and robbing of Jews, so much that their farmsteads were nicknamed 'Second Treblinka' because so many Jews perished there." (p 282)
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:49 pm

This blew my mind tonight, posted in March of this year at HC, as a comment on the first section of my blog article on Rabinowicz, Krzepicki and Treblinka:
Unknown said...
I just found this site. My uncle is Yakov Rabinowicz that Seidman writes about in his Warsaw Diaries. I am reeling in shock that someone would think he made it all up. He appears in Guta Sternbuch's book and also in Adam Boren's. His 75th yahreit is the first night of Passover, the first night of The Uprising. He was fighting back, a rifle in his hands.

Any attempt to diminish this young, brave Hasid, brother of the Admor of Munkacs, son of the Parcever Rebbe, a descendant of the Holy Jew, Der Yid Hakodesh... is beyond words.
Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:47:00 pm
This also clarifies for me a point I'd either never resolved or forgotten: both Krzepicki and Rabinowicz died in the Warsaw ghetto uprising. I wish I could speak with the person who left the comment, as I have a great interest in Rabinowicz. I cannot agree more that Jansson's claims about Rabinowicz and those of some commenting at HC are shocking.

I tried to purchase the books the anonymous commenter referenced but only Boren's is available. I do hope that I didn't screw up anything badly in the blog article.

In "montgomery terms," both Rabinowicz and Krzepicki were dead by 1943.
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:49 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:49 pm
This blew my mind tonight, posted in March of this year at HC, as a comment on the first section of my blog article on Rabinowicz, Krzepicki and Treblinka:
Unknown said...
I just found this site. My uncle is Yakov Rabinowicz that Seidman writes about in his Warsaw Diaries. I am reeling in shock that someone would think he made it all up. He appears in Guta Sternbuch's book and also in Adam Boren's. His 75th yahreit is the first night of Passover, the first night of The Uprising. He was fighting back, a rifle in his hands.

Any attempt to diminish this young, brave Hasid, brother of the Admor of Munkacs, son of the Parcever Rebbe, a descendant of the Holy Jew, Der Yid Hakodesh... is beyond words.
Wednesday, March 21, 2018 9:47:00 pm
This also clarifies for me a point I'd either never resolved or forgotten: both Krzepicki and Rabinowicz died in the Warsaw ghetto uprising. I wish I could speak with the person who left the comment, as I have a great interest in Rabinowicz. I cannot agree more that Jansson's claims about Rabinowicz and those of some commenting at HC are shocking.

I tried to purchase the books the anonymous commenter referenced but only Boren's is available. I do hope that I didn't screw up anything badly in the blog article.

In "montgomery terms," both Rabinowicz and Krzepicki were dead by 1943.
You didn't mess up the blog article, at least as far as I could tell. I would have been the first to call attention to that :lol: :lol:

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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:52 am

I know you would have been, I know . . . LOL
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Re: Full steam ahead for Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:57 am

Adam Boren fled Warsaw to the east when the Germans invaded, then returned there toward the end of 1941. He later wrote a memoir in which he recalls events during August and September 1942, at the time of the Great Deportation. Boren wrote of hearing rumors about letters and postcards arriving in the Warsaw ghetto in which deportees told of their relocation to eastern Poland (a topic been-there screwed up on at Rodoh; the letters were phony).

"In the second half of August," Boren recalled,
we learned that everyone was being deported to the extermination camp Treblinka, where they were gassed and burned. . . . Some of the reports came from eyewitnesses who escaped from the transport trains near Treblinka and from escapees from the extermination camp. The stories of their escape were unbelievable. I heard them from my Uncle Sojnek, who spoke to one of the escapees. The man, a Hasid, son of the Pazerver Rebbe, Yaakov Rabinowicz, Uncle Sojnek told me, was near nervous collapse. He could nearly speak, choking and breaking out in tears as he described the process of mass killing in Treblinka. He escaped from Treblinka by hiding in a railroad wagon packed with clothing of the murdered Jews.
Boren describes how he, like other Jewish young people, was moved by the news from Treblinka to join the ghetto resistance movement (ZOB). From fighters in ZOB Boren would learn later in the fall that over 300,000 Jews had been deported from Warsaw to Treblinka and murdered there.

Certainly, as Boren's memoir was written decades after the war, it may "telescope" later learnings into what he presents as contemporary knowledge (e.g., the number of murdered Jews; possibly - but maybe not - the use of gas at Treblinka). That said, Boren's memory of Rabinowicz and how he heard about his testimony seems to another confirming memory of the young escapee. Like Boren, others who heard from Rabinowicz described him as a religious person and, in the words of Lewin, “Rabinowicz . . . , a relative of Rabinowicz’s” and Seidman “Yaakov Rabinowicz, the Parczewer Rebbe’s son and the brother of the young Munkatcher Rebbe.” As Boren recalled being told, Rabinowicz had escaped the camp hiding among clothes in a boxcar (in one of his testimonies, Rabinowicz said that he'd been forced to load the boxcar with clothes was able to hide himself in a heap of clothing and ride in train on its return to the outskirts of Warsaw). Bear in mind that Siedman wrote down that Rabinowicz told him that the Germans were killing Jews at Treblinka using gas; perhaps Boren did hear this from his uncle, and later remember, the detail.

What Boren briefly describes being told about most likely would have occurred in early September, as Hillel Siedman's interview with Rabinowicz took place on 2 September, shortly after this escape from Treblinka. Seidman's account, obtained first hand and captured in real time, is much longer as he wrote down what he heard immediately after hearing from Rabinowicz. "Uncle Sojnek" is, then, along with Seidman, Wasser, Lewin, whoever told Ringelblum about Rabinowicz's report, and, according to Esther Farbstein, Rabinowicz's brother, another person to whom Rabinowicz talked about what he saw and heard in Treblinka.

A few words about Uncle Sojnek: this man was Boren's favorite uncle. Sojnek at one point cautioned Boren about leaping to conclusions (in this case that the Germans had executed Boren's father and brother) and told Boren that through his connections with Gancwajch, and by using a bribe, he could get inside information. Gancwajch, you will recall, was the head of The Thirteen, the Jewish Gestapo in Warsaw ghetto. Sojnek's effort to pry information from Gancwajch did not succeed as Gancwajch simply kept raising the cost of the bribes, without imparting any information. Sojnek, who had joined the Jewish underground early, before the deportations to Warsaw began; Sojnek was prompted to take this step after he heard news reaching Warsaw about the mass murder of Jews at Chełmno. Boren mentions "escaped witnesses" from Chełmno, likely one of them Winer, and that it was mainly young Jews in Warsaw ghetto who believed the news.

Boren, Journey through the Inferno (2004), pp 74-75, 79-80, 85-88
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