General Books/Reading Discussion

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by nickterry » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Interesting. I do plan to read the book, wacky as it sounds. I'm persuaded to do so knowing that Kershaw praises the book and Mommsen advised Ohler. It might also be a break of sorts from more ponderous stuff. It comes out in English I believe next March.
In two weeks (6 October), at least in the UK. Sort of the reverse of the 'Denial' film, which won't be screened over here until next March.

The German edition's table of contents is a hoot, lots of deadpan puns a la Goetz Aly (whose chapter titles never sound quite as good in English). Intro is also very good on the Kindle preview. Indeed, the Aly comparison is a good one: here is a less obvious aspect of the Third Reich to explore; Aly did it with tax policy (!), Ohler with drugs. And both know how to write.

Ohler's German publisher put out Anita Kugler's book Scherwitz a decade ago; the book is truly one of the most bizarre stories from the Holocaust imaginable (the SS officer in charge of a KL Riga sub-camp who claimed to be Jewish after the war, and was prosecuted more harshly as a result despite being otherwise a rescuer).

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:54 pm

Thanks, I do have a pipeline as it were to Amazon UK, so I will be able to read it earlier than I thought . . .
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:08 am

Could Hitlers coke and speed addictions explain his paranoia, delusions of grandeur, and bizarre manner of speech?

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:05 pm

Volker Ullrich, Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939 arrived from Amazon today; I am finishing up (translate: I've just started!) an old (2005!), rather long (nearly 1,000 page) book but will turn to Ullrich's new Hitler biography after that and let all y'all know what I think, when I do. It will take some time as I am progressing slowly with the big book and spending too much time learning Swedish.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:07 pm

For those interested in a general history of Europe that covers WW I, pre-war and WWII plus some of the aftermath I recommend To Hell and Back: Europe 1914-1949 by Ian Kershaw.
For a different look at the Holocaust I recommend Timothy Snyder's Black Earth. I actually liked this one better the second time around. I liked Bloodlands more but this is still worthwhile.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:29 pm

ralphgordon's review of "Caesani's" Final Solution at Rodoh:
IS there anyone else reading the above book which was just published this year. This is probably the most comprehensive "exterminationist" text ever published, as it covers all aspects of the alleged Holocaust", so it surely has to be taken seriously by any avowed student of the "Holocaust". The book is indeed over one thousand pages long, including footnotes and the index, and, at present, I am just over two thirds finished. AS all serious students of the "Holocaust" would know David Caesani has spent his life as a historian mostly writing about the "Holocaust", and , in my opinion, he is one of the least dogmatic of the "exterminationists", and, although in the "Final Solution" he firmly adheres to that line, in some respects he is a revisionist, strictly speaking, as, for instance, he believes that the Nazis did not originally intend to physically exterminate the Jews, but that, in accordance with their National Socialist ideology, when it became apparent they were going to be defeated, it was then that they decided to adopt an exterminationist policy, otherwise the Jews would eventually exterminate the Germans; of course, those who are "deniers" would have something to say about that, and, actually, Caesani nowhere has anything to say about "denier" contentions, which is a pity, although, as I said, the book is very long in detail, in itself. Also it is interesting to know that Caesani died just as he finished the book, before it was actually published, which is somewhat disconcerting -- perhaps that German guy who is dying of cancer will be able to debate the "Holocaust" with Caesani in "Heaven"!

As I have always said I am a "Holocaust" agnostic, and I still am, although Caesani, with his thoroughly comprehensive analysis, does certainly raise some doubts in my mind; for instance, if no Jews were exterminated in gas chambers it would be necessary for them to be warehoused somewhere (if they were not selected to be worked to death!), and this would surely have to be somewhere in the Nazi-occupied USSR; but what Caesani's analysis does is to demonstrate that there is nowhere in the USSR where they would have been left in peace, as, in Russia, the Nazis presumed that all Jews were pro-communist, especially since many were paRTISANS, AND IT DOES SEEM that many Jews were killed in Russia by the Nazis. and this is all over; therefore, what is the answer, since, surely, if the "deniers" are correct, they have to make a plausible case that the Jews not killed in gas chamber would have to warehoused somewhere. In the interests of truth, therefore, I would hope that all "deniers" would be able to take Caesani's book seriously, and come uo with a useful critical analysis.
I am not sure which book ralphgordon read, but his review is priceless.

Note ralphgordon's new concern with the resettlement argument provoked by Cesarani's book - I mean, good that he now has concerns with one of the central fictions of denial, but, Christ on a bicycle, he does confuse himself when he's on the verge of the slightest amount of understanding! (Thank goodness ralph fixed that little hiccup he had with caps lock - that's the main thing.)

Aryan Scholar, who's most likely not the former and certainly not the latter, chimes in:
1056 pages from a Jewish scholar about the fictional 6,000,000 dead body of Jews nowhere to be found.

What could be wrong?
At last, Turnagain shows up on his white stallion and lassoes the thread so he can ride it down to "Treblinka trivia."

As I've made clear, I'm high on this book. But don't take my word for it: ralphgordon urges everyone to snag and read this thing. Pronto!
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:43 pm

I am plodding through the 1000-pager I've been reading (in 6 days I'm only in the 400s! . . . grrrr) . . . "Blitzed" is arriving soon, so I plan to follow this thing with Ullrich's Hitler bio, then "Blitzed."

I am very much hoping ralphie reviews Ullch's Hitler book and "Britz!".
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:49 pm

A kindle version will be released on November 8th of "The Final Solution." I'm going to pre-order so I can get it that day.
It's on my list, up to now I could only get it through 3rd party sellers.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:55 pm

Well, keep in mind everything ralphie has said :)
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:58 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Well, keep in mind everything ralphie has said :)

Yeah, I'll print out a copy of what he said so I can take notes.

:lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:07 pm

LOL
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:44 pm

For those interested in general European history Richard Evans is putting out a new book, "The Pursuit of Power, Europe 1815-1914."
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:06 pm

Pre-ordered a copy of "Final Solution," I get it on November 8th.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:17 pm

Cool, I continue going really slowly through my current reading (German diplomatic history, 1930s) - I am so distracted by the goings on of the Fondling Fathers . . . I can't wait to read the Hitler bio and then Blitzed. Those are next up.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:23 pm

I really want to read the Evan's book, "Pursuit of Power."

I'm going through the list of books you and Nick Terry put up, see what I have missing from my library.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:51 pm

On Friday I picked up a copy of "Nazi Terror: The Gestapo, Jews and Ordinary Germans." It's a bit older, from 2000, but it looks interesting.
I've read everything else, just waiting on "Final Solution."
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:07 pm

I think I read that book when it was published; I found it interesting as heck.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think I read that book when it was published; I found it interesting as heck.
I'll let you know what I think of it. I read a little over lunch.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Cool, I continue going really slowly through my current reading (German diplomatic history, 1930s) - I am so distracted by the goings on of the Fondling Fathers . . . I can't wait to read the Hitler bio and then Blitzed. Those are next up.
What have you found in regards to Polish-German relations in the 1930's?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:24 pm

In a nutshell, situation nervous-making - but as Germany rearmed and made power plays, Hitler pursuing rapprochement to the point of restraining Forster and Greiser from going too far in Danzig to focus on German moves against Austria and Czechoslovakia, keeping Poland neutral on these moves - even encouraging Polish expectations of favorable border revisionism against Czechoslovakia - Poland freaking out about German strength and French/British weakness but Beck naive about Poland's precariousness - with every German concession or act of moderation to be scrapped when the time came (I am up to 1938, lots more to be said later).
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:24 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think I read that book when it was published; I found it interesting as heck.
I'll let you know what I think of it. I read a little over lunch.
Good, I'll be interested to hear if it stands up today . . .
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:16 pm

Anyone ever read Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust?"
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:34 pm

Yes, not worth it. Much, much better general surveys are available.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:35 pm

Thanks. I saw it today, didn't buy.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:39 am

Nora Levins book by the same title isn't to bad. It's something like 700 pages.

If you would like I could get you a copy of it Jeff.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:52 am

Denying-History wrote:Nora Levins book by the same title isn't to bad. It's something like 700 pages.

If you would like I could get you a copy of it Jeff.
Sure, that would be great.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:12 pm

I strongly, strongly recommend Friedlander, Gerlach, and Cesarani over books like Gilbert's or Levin's. Along with Longerich on Jewish politics. The latter, of course, reflect the times when they were published and don't hold up against more recent books.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:30 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I strongly, strongly recommend Friedlander, Gerlach, and Cesarani over books like Gilbert's or Levin's. Along with Longerich on Jewish politics. The latter, of course, reflect the times when they were published and don't hold up against more recent books.
I've read Friedlander and I'm waiting on Cesarani.

I wanted to add another one, I've suggested this one to Aaron:

Laurence Rees' "World War II Behind Closed Doors: Stalin, the Nazis and the West."
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:47 pm

IMO Longerich - either Holocaust or his Himmler book, which expands on Holocaust - is indispensable; also Gerlach, which is exciting reading.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:55 pm

I will give Longerich another shot, I tried reading his book on the Holocaust but couldn't get into it. Something about his writing made the book hard to get into.

I'm compiling a rather extensive list for the next few months. I found a copy of Christopher Browning's "Origins of the Final Solution." I'm reading that along with the book on the Gestapo.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I will give Longerich another shot, I tried reading his book on the Holocaust but couldn't get into it. Something about his writing made the book hard to get into.
Dull, eh? LOL it is plodding and dull, but the research is very good and the material is indispensable.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I'm compiling a rather extensive list for the next few months. I found a copy of Christopher Browning's "Origins of the Final Solution." I'm reading that along with the book on the Gestapo.
I was going to mention Browning also. I haven't read it through in years but I "consult" that book a great deal.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:28 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Dull, eh? LOL it is plodding and dull, but the research is very good and the material is indispensable.
Oh, yes. It's bad when you can take such an interesting subject and make it read like the instructions for assembling an entertainment center.
:lol:
But, I owe him another chance. I do want to read his book on Himmler.
Statistical Mechanic wrote: I was going to mention Browning also. I haven't read it through in years but I "consult" that book a great deal.
I read "Ordinary Men" a few years ago, about the same time I read "Hitler's Willing Executioners." I found a copy on-line so I mean to read OM again but I'm now officially behind on the stuff I want to read. I've got Cesarani coming in a few weeks so I want to finish "Origins" and the book on the Gestapo.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:32 pm

I'm plodding along on my foreign policy/diplomatic history reading . . . distracted by the election, my language course, and another course I'm taking (on Photoshop).
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:39 pm

I add the distraction of football season, plus the coming holidays.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:41 pm

For me it's the conclusion of the F1 season and an upcoming trip to Europe . . . :)
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:45 pm

Where in Europe?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:47 pm

Italy. I've only been there once before. This will be nearly 3 weeks. We will get to visit the city where my wife's family hails from and visit relatives. I am really looking forward to the trip.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Italy. I've only been there once before. This will be nearly 3 weeks. We will get to visit the city where my wife's family hails from and visit relatives. I am really looking forward to the trip.
That's cool. Trips to Europe will have to wait for retirement for me, I'm afraid.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:58 pm

I traveled to Europe for work a fair amount, mostly the UK and Ireland but also France a few times, Italy once.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:10 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I traveled to Europe for work a fair amount, mostly the UK and Ireland but also France a few times, Italy once.
In the late 80's I went to the former Yugoslavia. I remember watching the news after civil war broke out, it saddened me to see places I visited torn apart. I watched while Dubrovnik, an ancient city, was shelled.
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