General Books/Reading Discussion

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:58 am

Denying-History wrote:Well... That is dependent on how long he worked there.
:hmm: Why don't you read this? :-P
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:24 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Well... That is dependent on how long he worked there.
:hmm: Why don't you read this? :-P
I didn't see anything in the wiki link didn't go into much detail. Just says he was deported on a train and rescued by the Americans. It would mean though he was in Dora for 411 days.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:51 am

:blink: K...
Rassinier was then deported to Germany, enduring a three-day rail transport that ended on 30 January 1944 at Buchenwald concentration camp. After three weeks in quarantine, he became prisoner number 44364 and was transported to Dora, where V1 and V2 rockets were built in underground tunnels. Work conditions were terrible. Hunger, disease, overwork, exhaustion and physical abuse by the S.S. and the corrupt mafia of the Häftlingsführung (camp lower administration made of prisoners themselves; see "Prisoner functionary") resulted in a catastrophic death rate.

In his first book Crossing the Line, he says several factors contributed to his survival. Beginning in April 1944, his wife mailed him food parcels, though this stopped in November. His friendship with his Block Chief resulted in his parcel being delivered directly to him without first being plundered by the prisoner government. For a time, he landed a cushy job in "Schwung" (a position somewhere between orderly and manservant) to the S.S. Oberscharführer commanding the guard dog company, and got the opportunity to observe the S.S. at close range. Also, partly as a result of his interrogation, he came down with nephritis, and spent no less than two hundred and fifty days of his imprisonment in the Revier (infirmary).

On 7 April 1945 he was evacuated from Dora on what became a death train, endlessly traveling the German rail network from one bombed-out destination to another, with no food, water, or shelter. After several days, as the train rounded a bend and in spite of his terrible physical condition, he jumped off and thanks to the angle, escaped the S.S. gunfire. American soldiers rescued him the next day...
He was transported to Dora late February 1944 and evacuated and shortly thereafter rescued in April 1945 after leaving Dora on the 7th.

While at Dora, he received unmolested food packages for 8 months and also eventually held a "cushy" job for a while besides spending 250 friggin days in the infirmary (about the duration of receiving said packages). That is according to his own words, taken from his book Crossing the Line.


ETA: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=26239&start=160#p528316
Denying-History wrote:Wow. That would make him 1 in a million... Most people didn't survive Mittelbau-Dora... I wonder if he was one of the survivors whom was lucky enough to not be trapped in the cave system. All the witnesses I have heard from that were in that camp describe mining with out picks.
"Without picks" yep, that could be him. He might have never seen a cave, let alone set foot in one?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Sat Jul 30, 2016 8:23 am

I would have to look at his book. I haven't read crossing the line cause its such an old book. I may look into it though.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:46 pm

recommended for those with an interest in the Final Solution in France, focus on Final Solution proper, German intentions and interactions of Germans with Vichy: Wolfgang Seibel, Persecution and Rescue: The Politics of the “Final Solution” in France, 1940-1944 (University of Michigan Press, 2016)
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:20 am

List of title for learning more about the Holocaust posted at ISF:

General history:
Saul Friedlander, Nazi Germany and the Jews: Volume 1: The Years of Persecution 1933-1939 and Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945: The Years of Extermination
David Cesarani, Final Solution: The Fate of the Jews 1933-1949
Christian Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews
Christopher Browning, The Origins of the Final Solution: The Evolution of Nazi Jewish Policy, September 1939-March 1942
Christopher Browning, Evidence for the Implementation of the Final Solution http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/browning.html (online)
Peter Longerich, Hitler's Role in the Persecution of the Jews by the Nazi Regime http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/pl1.html (online)
Peter Longerich, The Systematic Character of the National Socialist Policy for the Extermination of the Jews http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/pl2.html (online)
Peter Longerich, Holocaust
Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews (very expensive but this is an essential bit of reading)

For Poland:
Martin Winstone, The Dark Heart of Hitler's Europe: Nazi Rule in Poland under the General Government
Catherine Epstein, Model Nazi

For Auschwitz:
Yisrael Gutman and Michael Berenbaum, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp
Robert Jan Van Pelt, The Van Pelt Report http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/van/ii.html (online)
Jean-Claude Pressac, Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers (online)

For Aktion Reinhard:
Holocaust Controversies, https://archive.org/details/BelzecSobib ... .ACritique (download PDF here, also can be found at HC blog website)
Jules Schelvis, Sobibor: A History of a Nazi Death Camp
Michael Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide: The Operation Reinhard Death Camp Trials, 1955-1966 (expensive and hard to find - library? really excellent)

For Chelmno:
Patrick Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust: The History of Hitler's First Death Camp (expensive but indispensable, try a library?)

For the shootings in the occupied east (Einsatzgruppen, police battalions, etc):
Christopher Browning, Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland
Alex Kay, The Making of an SS Killer: The Life of Colonel Alfred Filbert
Ray Brandon and Wendy Lower, The Shoah in Ukraine: History, Testimony, Memorialization
Andrej Angrick and Peter Klein, The 'Final Solution' in Riga: Exploitation and Annihilation, 1941-1944

For the camp system:
Nicholas Wachsmann, KL
(many good books for later on individual camps)

See also Nick Terry's "citations" list here and my earlier list posted at ISF here. The titles listed above cover a lot of the basics very well. 1000s of books appear a year, on the general history of the Third Reich and Holocaust as well as on specialized topics, so these three lists omit many, many worthy books. I tried to skew this list toward recent research.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:21 pm

Patrick Montague's book on Chelmno is available in a Kindle edition that is very reasonably priced. I bought it a year ago.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:46 am

KL: A History of the Nazi Concentration Camps by Nikolaus Wachsmann was a pretty good read. It covers a lot of material and has a good number of Pages of Majdanek. :)
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:38 am

Given the purpose of the list I posted at ISF, I didn't include some titles I think people with a serious interest in the Holocaust should read. One such is Bettina Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem, sagely recommended by Jeffk_1970 in another thread.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:10 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Given the purpose of the list I posted at ISF, I didn't include some titles I think people with a serious interest in the Holocaust should read. One such is Bettina Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem, sagely recommended by Jeffk_1970 in another thread.
I enjoyed it immensely.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by NathanC » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:19 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Given the purpose of the list I posted at ISF, I didn't include some titles I think people with a serious interest in the Holocaust should read. One such is Bettina Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem, sagely recommended by Jeffk_1970 in another thread.
I enjoyed it immensely.
I just started reading Eichmann Before Jerusalem, and I am enjoying it immensely as well. Totally worth the price.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:45 am

NathanC wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Given the purpose of the list I posted at ISF, I didn't include some titles I think people with a serious interest in the Holocaust should read. One such is Bettina Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem, sagely recommended by Jeffk_1970 in another thread.
I enjoyed it immensely.
I just started reading Eichmann Before Jerusalem, and I am enjoying it immensely as well. Totally worth the price.
I don't know if you have but after EBJ I recommend you read Deborah Lipstadt's "The Eichman Trial." It is great and is a perfect ending to EBJ.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:55 am

Funny, I read the Stangneth book, then Hausner's account of the trial, then, on Nick Terry's recommendation, Lipstadt's book, which indeed was good.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:01 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Funny, I read the Stangneth book, then Hausner's account of the trial, then, on Nick Terry's recommendation, Lipstadt's book, which indeed was good.
I've never been a fan of Lipstadt. When I was first confronted by denial I read her book and was left deeply unsatisfied, her bit on Butz was the only good part of it and it was far too short. I then read Shermer's book and was more impressed, it was a far better intro into this world. I appreciate that she cleaned Irvings clock but that was more due to Evans, Longereich, Browning and especially Van Pelt than anything she did, in a ways she was merely along for the ride from a historiographical perspective.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by NathanC » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:13 am

Well, if Dr. Terry recommends it, then it must be good. Another interesting book that touches on the trial is Tom Segev's The Seventh million. Though It might be out of date, having been published in 1993 and all.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:15 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Funny, I read the Stangneth book, then Hausner's account of the trial, then, on Nick Terry's recommendation, Lipstadt's book, which indeed was good.
I've never been a fan of Lipstadt. When I was first confronted by denial I read her book and was left deeply unsatisfied, her bit on Butz was the only good part of it and it was far too short. I then read Shermer's book and was more impressed, it was a far better intro into this world. I appreciate that she cleaned Irvings clock but that was more due to Evans, Longereich, Browning and especially Van Pelt than anything she did, in a ways she was merely along for the ride from a historiographical perspective.
Frankly by the time I read Lipstadt's book on denial it was very outdated. Shermer's book was better. I do recommend her book on the Eichman Trial, it caps off Stangneth's book very well. Lipstadt captured the tension going on between the native Isrealis and the European survivors very well.

I didn't like Lucy Dawidowicz's book, The War Against the Jews. A Jewish survivor named Wolf Murmelstein recommended the book to me and I read it. I found it disappointing.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:16 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Funny, I read the Stangneth book, then Hausner's account of the trial, then, on Nick Terry's recommendation, Lipstadt's book, which indeed was good.
I've never been a fan of Lipstadt. When I was first confronted by denial I read her book and was left deeply unsatisfied, her bit on Butz was the only good part of it and it was far too short. I then read Shermer's book and was more impressed, it was a far better intro into this world. I appreciate that she cleaned Irvings clock but that was more due to Evans, Longereich, Browning and especially Van Pelt than anything she did, in a ways she was merely along for the ride from a historiographical perspective.
not an endorsement of Lipstadt, just a comment on that book . . . I didn't expect much, but I agree with Jeffk on it.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Funny, I read the Stangneth book, then Hausner's account of the trial, then, on Nick Terry's recommendation, Lipstadt's book, which indeed was good.
I've never been a fan of Lipstadt. When I was first confronted by denial I read her book and was left deeply unsatisfied, her bit on Butz was the only good part of it and it was far too short. I then read Shermer's book and was more impressed, it was a far better intro into this world. I appreciate that she cleaned Irvings clock but that was more due to Evans, Longereich, Browning and especially Van Pelt than anything she did, in a ways she was merely along for the ride from a historiographical perspective.
not an endorsement of Lipstadt, just a comment on that book . . . I didn't expect much, but I agree with Jeffk on it.
I will give it a look. The conflict between the Sabras and the Holocaust survivors is well known to anyone who has studied the history of the region.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:59 pm

Jeff_36 wrote: I will give it a look. The conflict between the Sabras and the Holocaust survivors is well known to anyone who has studied the history of the region.
Lipstadt brought up instances, even during Eichman's Trial, where one of the judges or the prosecutor would make a point of questioning a witness into describing again how little resistance there was to the SS. That did surprise me, how pointed it was. I realized there was tension but not to the degree that it came out during the trial.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by nickterry » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:01 am

Lipstadt's book on the Eichmann trial is a very succinct summary of the key issues involved - other books cover different parts of the same ground in greater depth, but she did a very good job there. Stangneth's book is amazing, but it's not so much about the trial or its reverberations.

Similarly, there are far more thorough and comprehensive treatments of the evolution of Nazi Jewish policy and the decision making process for the Final Solution in 1941/2, but Mark Roseman's short book on Wannsee is a very succinct summary of the key issues involved.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by NathanC » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:42 am

I don't know if anyone's recommended it in this thread yet, but Nikolaus Wachsmann's "KL" is really quite good.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:45 am

NathanC wrote:I don't know if anyone's recommended it in this thread yet, but Nikolaus Wachsmann's "KL" is really quite good.

It is very good. I purchased a Kindle version of it last Christmas. I highly recommend it.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:02 am

Makes three of us (it was on the list of must-read books I posted about two weeks ago)
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:48 pm

NathanC wrote:I don't know if anyone's recommended it in this thread yet, but Nikolaus Wachsmann's "KL" is really quite good.
I'm re-reading it now.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:56 pm

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this but "The Good Old Days" is also indispensable. It's a hard read...I read it in bits and pieces....but for a view from the perpatrator's view it is a very important book.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:28 pm

Some references to books on Nazi wartime camps from the Hoax thread:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Quick thoughts on KLs: Sellier's book on Dora-Mittelbau is worth reading, as are on Mauthausen-Gusen the books by David Wingeate Pike and Rudolf Haunschmied. There is also a good book on the Mauthausen trial by Tomaz Jardim. The recent book on Majdanek (Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence: The Majdanek Concentration Camp, 1942-1944) by Eiissa Mailänder is very good - it focuses on the Aufseherinnen, the female guards at the camp, and on the overall daily life in the camp, not mainly the extermination role of Majdanek (there's too much on Auschwitz to list off the top of my head!). Marc Buggeln's book Slave Labor in Nazi Concentration Camps is really about Neuengamme subcamps and useful. I thought Bella Gutterman, A Narrow Bridge to Life, on Gross-Rosen, was good. Excellent, on a lesser known but important camp, is Felicja Karay's book Death Comes in Yellow on Skarzysko-Kamienna. I also recommend Blatman's book on the death marches. I also should add Kim Wünschmann's Before Auschwitz: Jewish Prisoners in the Prewar Concentration Camps and Michael Thad Allen, The Business of Genocide: The SS, Slave Labor, and the Concentration Camps. (I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of Adler's classic book on Theresienstadt, I forget the pub date . . . )
For Ravensbrück, Suzanne Helm, Ravensbruck: Life and Death in Hitler's Concentration Camp for Women.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . main sources are Berben's official history; Distel & Jakusch, Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945; Distel et al, The Dachau Concentration Camp, 1933 to 1945 with CD; Timothy Ryback, Hitler's First Victims; Dachau Review Vol 1 (with articles by Distel, Benz and others); USHMM Encyclopedia; Wachsmann; KL; Marcuse, Legacies of Dachau; and Dillon, Dachau and the SS.
also Browning, Remembering Survival: Inside a Nazi Slave-Labor Camp on the slave-labor camps at Starachowice
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I don't know if anyone's mentioned this but "The Good Old Days" is also indispensable. It's a hard read...I read it in bits and pieces....but for a view from the perpatrator's view it is a very important book.
One of the best books I have read on this topic, if not the best period.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:35 pm

Agree. To me it seems to be less than what it is. I read it early in my study of this, and found it great but didn't grasp how great, it is an indispensable collection, as Jeffk says, that I find myself going back to time and again. It's deceptively good - and worth taking time with when reading it.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:22 pm

It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:42 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Some references to books on Nazi wartime camps from the Hoax thread:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Quick thoughts on KLs: Sellier's book on Dora-Mittelbau is worth reading, as are on Mauthausen-Gusen the books by David Wingeate Pike and Rudolf Haunschmied. There is also a good book on the Mauthausen trial by Tomaz Jardim. The recent book on Majdanek (Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence: The Majdanek Concentration Camp, 1942-1944) by Eiissa Mailänder is very good - it focuses on the Aufseherinnen, the female guards at the camp, and on the overall daily life in the camp, not mainly the extermination role of Majdanek (there's too much on Auschwitz to list off the top of my head!). Marc Buggeln's book Slave Labor in Nazi Concentration Camps is really about Neuengamme subcamps and useful. I thought Bella Gutterman, A Narrow Bridge to Life, on Gross-Rosen, was good. Excellent, on a lesser known but important camp, is Felicja Karay's book Death Comes in Yellow on Skarzysko-Kamienna. I also recommend Blatman's book on the death marches. I also should add Kim Wünschmann's Before Auschwitz: Jewish Prisoners in the Prewar Concentration Camps and Michael Thad Allen, The Business of Genocide: The SS, Slave Labor, and the Concentration Camps. (I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of Adler's classic book on Theresienstadt, I forget the pub date . . . )
For Ravensbrück, Suzanne Helm, Ravensbruck: Life and Death in Hitler's Concentration Camp for Women.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . main sources are Berben's official history; Distel & Jakusch, Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945; Distel et al, The Dachau Concentration Camp, 1933 to 1945 with CD; Timothy Ryback, Hitler's First Victims; Dachau Review Vol 1 (with articles by Distel, Benz and others); USHMM Encyclopedia; Wachsmann; KL; Marcuse, Legacies of Dachau; and Dillon, Dachau and the SS.
also Browning, Remembering Survival: Inside a Nazi Slave-Labor Camp on the slave-labor camps at Starachowice
My library has it, The Ravensbruck by Susan Helm. I can get it as an E-book, I've checked it out. I'm going to read it in the next couple of days.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:13 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:19 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
I'll see if I can track down a copy and add it to the list.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:25 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
I'll see if I can track down a copy and add it to the list.
Amazon has some copies for around $20 and I found my copy at a reuse store. (Reuse book stores are a magic key for finding books)

https://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-War-Cr ... 0803299087
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:39 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
I'll see if I can track down a copy and add it to the list.
Amazon has some copies for around $20 and I found my copy at a reuse store. (Reuse book stores are a magic key for finding books)

https://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-War-Cr ... 0803299087
I use 1/2 Price Books, I found Kershaw's two-part biography of Hitler there, the Storm of War, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken, The Coldest Winter......it's my favorite.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:56 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
I'll see if I can track down a copy and add it to the list.
Amazon has some copies for around $20 and I found my copy at a reuse store. (Reuse book stores are a magic key for finding books)

https://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-War-Cr ... 0803299087
I use 1/2 Price Books, I found Kershaw's two-part biography of Hitler there, the Storm of War, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken, The Coldest Winter......it's my favorite.
I found the Neo-Nazi Mythomania at a reuse store, I find it pretty nice cause it contains the entire Korherr report. And the book makes a good refutation to Jim's arguments since they are as old as the soil that makes up this earth.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:57 am

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:It's hard to deny something when the perpetrators themselves describe in exquisite detail the actions they took to murder Jews.
They were all Tortured! Checkmate Believer!

Oh! If you haven't read it "The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939 - 1945" by Alfred M. de Zayas is an invaluable resource.
I'll see if I can track down a copy and add it to the list.
Amazon has some copies for around $20 and I found my copy at a reuse store. (Reuse book stores are a magic key for finding books)

https://www.amazon.com/Wehrmacht-War-Cr ... 0803299087
I use 1/2 Price Books, I found Kershaw's two-part biography of Hitler there, the Storm of War, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken, The Coldest Winter......it's my favorite.
I found the Neo-Nazi Mythomania at a reuse store, I find it pretty nice cause it contains the entire Korherr report. And the book makes a good refutation to Jim's arguments since they are as old as the soil that makes up this earth.
:lol:
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:55 pm

For those interested in the history of Germany after WW II I recommend Excorcising Hitler by Frederick Taylor.

For an overall view of Europe after the war I recommend Savage Continent by Keith Lowe.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:02 pm

Blitzed (“Well, Mommsen always told me not to be mono-causal." I like that little remark. Next thing you know they'll be slandering Göring as some kind of morphine addict.)
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:11 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Blitzed (“Well, Mommsen always told me not to be mono-causal." I like that little remark. Next thing you know they'll be slandering Göring as some kind of morphine addict.)
That's interesting. Hitler's drug use is well documented, Shirer mentioned Morrel plying Hitler with drugs and his entourage being concerned about it. I didn't know Mussolini also used drugs after Hitler rescued him and I didn't know how widespread its use was in the army.

On a professional level I dealt with the epidemic of methamphetamine use (dealers and users now use the ironically named "Nazi Method" to cook it) when I worked in Child Protective Services. Nasty, nasty stuff.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:13 pm

Interesting. I do plan to read the book, wacky as it sounds. I'm persuaded to do so knowing that Kershaw praises the book and Mommsen advised Ohler. It might also be a break of sorts from more ponderous stuff. It comes out in English I believe next March.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .