General Books/Reading Discussion

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Goody67
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Goody67 » Thu May 23, 2019 6:18 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
Post some interesting things about it when you get a chance.
I shall post about the book and other book James Q. Whitman’s “Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law“ which I was meant to post about a little while ago. I’ve just been a tad bit busy.

I’ve nearly finished the book about the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and I’m just going to read the biography of Lenin when I’m using transport so I shall read Helmut Krausnick‘s “Anatomy of the SS State“ next.
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 23, 2019 6:33 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 6:18 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 4:53 pm
Post some interesting things about it when you get a chance.
I shall post about the book and other book James Q. Whitman’s “Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law“ which I was meant to post about a little while ago. I’ve just been a tad bit busy.

I’ve nearly finished the book about the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and I’m just going to read the biography of Lenin when I’m using transport so I shall read Helmut Krausnick‘s “Anatomy of the SS State“ next.
I’m working my way through Himmler’s biography and will probably read Reitlinger’s book next.

Though I’m not sure about that, I may hold Reitlinger.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 24, 2019 3:42 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:34 pm
My library picked this up, I’ve got it on hold:
In Broad Daylight
The Secret Procedures behind the Holocaust by Bullets
by Father Patrick Desbois
What sucks is that I requested it but it didn’t go to me first.
This came in, dropping Himmler to read this.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 28, 2019 6:51 pm

Steinhart, The Holocaust and the Germanization of Ukraine, (so far) is excellent - good material on 1) the "ordinary men" debates - and support of ordinary Germans for Nazi programs in the East, 2) fascinating short description of NSKK (National Socialist Motor Corps), 3) Germanization programs and their impact on the population as a whole, 4) history of the Germans living in the East (Baltic, Volga, and Black Sea Germans) and then their responses to the occupation and to German policies, 5) some "sideways" comments relative to the Holodomor, and 6) Sonderkommando R, the VoMi organization operating in the Ukraine and Transnistria, with attention to leadership and rank and file profiles as well as individuals and relations with Romanian authorities - I highly recommend this book based on having read not quite half
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 28, 2019 6:59 pm

Have my eye on this:
Robert Gerwarth
Hitler's Hangman: The Life of Heydrich
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 28, 2019 7:49 pm

It's very good. Takes a Longerich approach to the development of the Final Solution. Much better than his book on the aftermath of WWI in my view.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:49 pm
It's very good. Takes a Longerich approach to the development of the Final Solution. Much better than his book on the aftermath of WWI in my view.

Hey!!!! I liked that one!!!!!
:lol:

I still need to finish the Himmler biography, “In Broad Daylight,” and Reitlinger’s book.... :shock:

TBH I prefer it like this, in previous years I rushed through books and had nothing by the Summer.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 28, 2019 8:32 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:49 pm
It's very good. Takes a Longerich approach to the development of the Final Solution. Much better than his book on the aftermath of WWI in my view.

Hey!!!! I liked that one!!!!!
:lol:

I still need to finish the Himmler biography, “In Broad Daylight,” and Reitlinger’s book.... :shock:

TBH I prefer it like this, in previous years I rushed through books and had nothing by the Summer.
Me too. The Unvanquished is good - but Gerwarth's Heydrich bio is really, really good :)
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 28, 2019 8:36 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:32 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:56 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:49 pm
It's very good. Takes a Longerich approach to the development of the Final Solution. Much better than his book on the aftermath of WWI in my view.

Hey!!!! I liked that one!!!!!
:lol:

I still need to finish the Himmler biography, “In Broad Daylight,” and Reitlinger’s book.... :shock:

TBH I prefer it like this, in previous years I rushed through books and had nothing by the Summer.
Me too. The Unvanquished is good - but Gerwarth's Heydrich bio is really, really good :)
There’s a bio of Arthur Greiser that I’m also considering:
Catherine Epstein
Model Nazi: Arthur Greiser and the Occupation of Western Poland (Oxford Studies in Modern European History)
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue May 28, 2019 8:43 pm

Superb book. I highly recommend it.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 pm

I think I’m going to do that one first.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Goody67 » Wed May 29, 2019 6:14 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 8:43 pm
Superb book. I highly recommend it.
I agree. I read the book a little while ago, it contains lots of information about how much the Nazis enforced the segregation of Germans and Poles and especially about the punishment for the cases of Germans and Poles being found guilty of having sexual relations with each other.
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Goody67 » Wed May 29, 2019 6:15 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 pm
I think I’m going to do that one first.
I think you’re going to finish Longerich’s Himmler biography in 2030! :D
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 29, 2019 11:00 am

LOL which isn't too bad, considering how long it is!
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 29, 2019 11:05 am

Goody67 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:15 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 pm
I think I’m going to do that one first.
I think you’re going to finish Longerich’s Himmler biography in 2030! :D
Shockingly I’m about 1/2 way through!!

I’m finding “In Broad Daylight” a bit of a chore.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 29, 2019 12:28 pm

I’m going back to Himmler.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 29, 2019 2:34 pm

Steinhart is seriously good stuff. Really learning a lot from his book and I love the way it mixes high level/contextual narrative with thick description of Sonderkommando R on the ground. It's really a strong book.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm

I’m learning what an oddball Himmler really was.......:D
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed May 29, 2019 11:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:55 pm
. . . and his discussion of conflicts between the Reich and Romania on Jewish policy (shortly after Barbarossa, the Germans refusing Antonescu's desire to shove the Jews across the Urals . . . )
Or even into the Ukraine.

In tracing how Sonderkommando R (a VoMi Kommando whose mission it was to make the region's Germans the backbone of National Socialism) became involved of mass murder of Jews in Transnistria, Steinhart raises this point - the conflict between the Germans' stubborn refusal to permit the Romanians to drive the Jews into Russia with the Romanians' not quite as persistent belief that the Germans would relent and eventually allow the Jews from Bessarabia, Bukovina, and Transnistria to be sent past the Bug into the Ukraine or further.

Steinhart says that the Romanians believed that solving the Jewish question meant driving Jews out of Romania, but that the Germans meant by solving the Jewish question the extermination of Jews on the continent. For the Romanian authorities, Transnistria was a way-station for Jews being driven into Russia; for the Germans, Transnistria was where they expected Romania to solve its Jewish problem. The Germans would not accept Jews from Romania into the very areas in which they had their hands full murdering local Jews.

In the event, the Romanians deported Jews over the Dneister into Transnistria and gathered them into makeshift ghettos and camps.

The conditions during deportation and then in Transnistria, as every author writing about Romanian Jews shows, were lethal - and Steinhart makes the spread of typhus in the ghettos and camps a major part of his argument: one of the major motivators for the mobilization of Sonderkommando R temporarily as a killing organization was the threat of typhus spreading to Volksdeutsche settlements in the region. The other motivator was a fictional security threat posed by Jews in the region.

Interestingly, Steinhart argues, as Sonderkommando R took up mass murder - liquidating Jews in Transnistria's camps and ghettos, many of them dying or ill, and then killing Jews being deported into northwest Transnistria to block further health and security risks - German authorities in Berlin were unaware. Their expectation was for the Romanians to take care of the Jews, not the joint Romanian-German operations that ensued.

But these developments raise a fundamental problem for the claims that deniers make about "resettlement," "transit," and the Russian interior: the Germans barred, by explicit agreement with the Romanian government, the deportation of Jews past the Bug, that is, into the Ukraine, let alone past the Urals. Steinhart argues that in 1941-1942 the Germans envisioned the Romanians eliminating the Jewish population of Romania (as we know from other sources, later, in the second part of 1942 the Germans tried, without success, to add Belzec to the program).

But, leaving aside for a moment all the evidence for extermination, why did the Germans block the removal of Romanian Jews to the "Russian" East, if this was where Jews were being taken? And, since the Germans barred the deportation of Romanian Jews past the Bug, what indeed did they intend to happen to Romanian Jews, both those sent to Transnistria and those still in the Old Kingdom?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Goody67 » Thu May 30, 2019 1:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm
I’m learning what an oddball Himmler really was.......:D
The failed chicken farmer who thought he could implement eugenics policies to create an Aryan master race of Nordic Germans when he himself looked like he was of Mongoloid descent. The irony of what the Nazis preached and how they looked themselves is priceless!

Even Hitler regarded Himmler’s mystic occultism stuff to be utter nonsense.

By the way, another Peter did a decent biography about Himmler too. Peter Padfield did a biography simply titled “Himmler” a few years ago and it’s definitely worth a read.
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu May 30, 2019 2:00 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm
I’m learning what an oddball Himmler really was.......:D
The failed chicken farmer who thought he could implement eugenics policies to create an Aryan master race of Nordic Germans when he himself looked like he was of Mongoloid descent. The irony of what the Nazis preached and how they looked themselves is priceless! . . .
Albert Forster: "If I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't talk about race."
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu May 30, 2019 2:03 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:36 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:55 pm
I’m learning what an oddball Himmler really was.......:D
The failed chicken farmer who thought he could implement eugenics policies to create an Aryan master race of Nordic Germans when he himself looked like he was of Mongoloid descent. The irony of what the Nazis preached and how they looked themselves is priceless!

Even Hitler regarded Himmler’s mystic occultism stuff to be utter nonsense.

By the way, another Peter did a decent biography about Himmler too. Peter Padfield did a biography simply titled “Himmler” a few years ago and it’s definitely worth a read.
Not to mention being weirdly obsessed with the sex lives of the SS and others.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Goody67 » Thu May 30, 2019 3:37 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 2:00 pm
Albert Forster: "If I looked like Himmler, I wouldn't talk about race."
Richard Tedor in his book “Hitler’s Revolution” quoted Goebbels as writing in his diary in October 1937:

“Discussed race policy with Dr. Gross. I reproached him for our flawed standards for making selections. According to them, practically every officer today would be dismissed.”

Edit: the quote in German:

"Mit Dr. Groß Rassepolitik besprochen. Ich halte ihm unsere falschen Ausleseprinzipien vor. Danach würden fast alle heutigen Führer zurückgewiesen."

Full text of "Joseph Goebbels Tagebücher 1924 1945 (vol 1 2 3 4 5)"
"We were the first country to attempt and to succeed in rolling back the frontiers of socialism, which is the first cousin to communism. Socialists don't like people to do things for themselves. Socialists like to get people dependent on the state! You never build a great society that way." - Margaret Thatcher

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:05 am
Goody67 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:15 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 9:00 pm
I think I’m going to do that one first.
I think you’re going to finish Longerich’s Himmler biography in 2030! :D
Shockingly I’m about 1/2 way through!!

I’m finding “In Broad Daylight” a bit of a chore.

I’m returning “In Broad Daylight,” it didn’t do anything for me. I’ll try “Holocaust by Bullets” some other time.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 6:28 pm

I found the material on the killing process in "In Broad Daylight" to be both compelling and informative.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:30 pm

Maybe I’m just not in the mood for it. I’m more interested in the Himmler biography.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:31 pm

I will give “Holocaust by Bullets” a try at some point and maybe revisit “In Broad Daylight.”
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm

I felt an urge to see what's new at Amazon and order me some reading, so I sorted "Holocaust books" by pub date and put the most interesting titles in my "basket," then took a look at what I'd chosen. What struck me was that the 7 books totaled over $700. Ouch. The price of specialist literature has soared - and recently. These titles are now ranging from $110 to $160. Yikes. I removed 6 of the selections from my basket, moving them into "save for later" and stared at the one remaining. Then I moved it. I went back through the recent releases and found a forthcoming selection of documents from the Oyneg Shabes archive, Ancel's comprehensive book on the Holocaust in Romania, and a book looking at American debates on the nature of Nazi Germany during the '30s and '40s . . . reloaded my basket for $91, looked at that for a bit, then exited Amazon.

FSS.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:31 pm
I will give “Holocaust by Bullets” a try at some point and maybe revisit “In Broad Daylight.”
I actually liked In Broad Daylight the better of the two, but, of course, the lure of Himmler . . . LOL
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 6:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:37 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 6:31 pm
I will give “Holocaust by Bullets” a try at some point and maybe revisit “In Broad Daylight.”
I actually liked In Broad Daylight the better of the two, but, of course, the lure of Himmler . . . LOL

He was, as they say in my neck of the woods, “a different breed of cat....” :D


The most interesting thing in “In Broad Daylight” was the description of the techniques used to measure out graves. It wasn’t the spur of the moment. Someone planned it out and the German officer measured it out with steps.

I may revisit some other time.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 8:41 pm

well, a wee bit more than that . . . starting with this post I summarized some key points from In Broad Daylight; here also is a post I made combining process information from across Desbois' book with what Bartov says about how the killings were carried out in Buczacz (and still another post on Desbois' book): they show planning, to be sure, but also the fact that Wehrmacht soldiers disobeyed some orders but not others, how the shootings impacted daily life in the affected localities - e.g., schools, weaponry used by the EGs, roles of locals in the killing process and how they were recruited/deployed, command and orders, how execution sites were chosen, the various roles and responsibilities of those deployed in shooting actions, typical sequencing of actions, logistics including how killers were fed, witnesses to the shootings, theft of Jewish belongings, reasons for witness reticence, rape, and the aftermath of shooting actions, to name some.

I think that this stuff is very detailed and useful, not least to answer/refute a lot of the supposing, assuming, just asking, and what iffing deniers do.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:41 pm
well, a wee bit more than that . . . starting with this post I summarized some key points from In Broad Daylight; here also is a post I made combining process information from across Desbois' book with what Bartov says about how the killings were carried out in Buczacz (and still another post on Desbois' book): they show planning, to be sure, but also the fact that Wehrmacht soldiers disobeyed some orders but not others, how the shootings impacted daily life in the affected localities - e.g., schools, weaponry used by the EGs, roles of locals in the killing process and how they were recruited/deployed, command and orders, how execution sites were chosen, the various roles and responsibilities of those deployed in shooting actions, typical sequencing of actions, logistics including how killers were fed, witnesses to the shootings, theft of Jewish belongings, reasons for witness reticence, rape, and the aftermath of shooting actions, to name some.

I think that this stuff is very detailed and useful, not least to answer/refute a lot of the supposing, assuming, just asking, and what iffing deniers do.
Sigh. I guess I’ll have to read the rest of the book.

LOL
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 8:46 pm

But it’s going to be awhile. I really need to finish Himmler so I’m not distracted. Then I have some other books lined up.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 9:02 pm

Plus Himmler is so cool . . . :) and, yes, Longerich's Himmler bio should IMO be a much higher reading priority . . .

But what about the friggin' prices of recent specialist books?@?!?!?!#$@!?!?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri May 31, 2019 9:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:02 pm
Plus Himmler is so cool . . . :) and, yes, Longerich's Himmler bio should IMO be a much higher reading priority . . .

But what about the friggin' prices of recent specialist books?@?!?!?!#$@!?!?
I know, trust me. There’s some things I want that are 50-75 dollars. Or more. That puts them out of my range.

I can sometimes find Kindle versions cheaper, that’s how I got Montague’s Chelmno book. That’s almost a hundred dollars while the Kindle version cost about 20.00.

What frustrates me along with the price is how some works never get translated. Berger’s book on the Reinhard Camps comes to mind.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 31, 2019 9:25 pm

I'm now reading Dumitru - not sure her thesis will hold up - more later - but wanted to reiterate my recommendation of Steinhart.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:39 pm

Dumitru's thesis is challenging to much that we've argued in this forum.

Her argument depends in part on a caution not to read Stalinist terror and reactionary nationalities policies (including ethnic cleansing in borderlands) of the late '30s, and subsequently, back into the '20s and early '30s. She argues that the earlier nationalities policy of the Soviets, with affirmative action as a centerpiece for formerly "second class" national groups; with a distinctive component for Jewish equality; and with its integrationist thrust which admitted some degree of autonomy to counteract secessionist movements - along with the regime's ideology of equality and friendship of peoples - contrasted to the situation in Romania, where the nationalist project was antithetical to minority rights in general and especially discriminatory and violent toward Jews.

As a result, she says, responses to Romanian antisemitic policies during WWII of peasants in Transnistria, which had been Soviet during the interwar period, differed dramatically to the responses of peasants in Bessarabia, who had been under the tutelage of the Romanian state, the Cuzists and to some extent the Iron Guard, all of which in their way promoted Romanian nationalism and exclusion form the Romanian polity of national minorities and especially Jews. Basically, Dumitru says, under Soviet rule, due to both incentives and punishments, Transnistrians learned to "curb" antisemitic impulses, whilst Bessarabians were encouraged under Romanian rule to give such impulses free rein.

Dumitru makes a strong case. She argues that the parts of the Ukraine in which antisemitic movements and actions, e.g., pogroms, flourished in the early years of the second world war shared the characteristic that they hadn't long been under Soviet rule. This is one piece of her thesis I need to think through and chart out, for myself.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:39 pm

And for the rest of us..... :D
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:08 pm

damn, the pressure! LOL
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 9:02 pm
Plus Himmler is so cool . . . :) and, yes, Longerich's Himmler bio should IMO be a much higher reading priority . . .

But what about the friggin' prices of recent specialist books?@?!?!?!#$@!?!?
Not recent, put out in 1992:

Messages of Murder
A Study of the Reports of the Einsatzgruppen of the Security Police and the Security Service, 1941-1943

Costs 56.00, I can get a used copy for 42.00.

No other options for purchase.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843