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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:08 pm

I’m thinking about making this mandatory reading for anyone thinking to post in the HD subforum:

Image
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:24 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Waiting on "Weimar and Nazi Germany 1918-39."
It was taking too long for this to become available. The library did have both volumes of Stephen Kotkin’s Stalin biography available. So, I checked out both at the same time which means I’ll be reading like a mad bastard during any free time I have for the next couple of weeks.

See ya later.... :D
Alright, so about 100 pages left in the first volume.

It’s a bit wordy but there’s a lot of useful information. Kotkin tracks (in very painstaking detail) how Stalin took advantage of situations that came up to drive out rivals. The main rival being Trotsky, of course.


What I found interesting is that Kotkin doubts the authenticity of Lenin’s testament. He notes that it was released at a time when Lenin’s health declined rapidly and the testament itself was allegedly written a few months before. This would’ve prevented Lenin from repudiating it.

I doubt I will even start the 2nd volume before it has to go back, I will set it up to check out again.
So, finished. I set up an automated checkout for the second volume and will start on it when it arrives.

Final verdict:

It's worth a read of you want to know more about Stalin's early life and the inner workings of the Bolsheviks. It's very detailed regarding Stalin's maneuvers to eliminate his rivals (and his friends) as threats to his power. The most interesting revelation to me is Kotkin's doubts about the Lenin Testament that argued for the removal of Stalin regarding his rude behavior.

I doubt I will buy it though I will read the third volume when it is available. I find I am looking forward to the second volume that details the period from 1929-1941. I think this volume will be more focused due to the smaller time frame.
I checked out the second volume again and hope to finish it this time.
Yes, just checked this out again.

Seriously going to finish it this time...LOL
Slowly crawling toward the finish line.... :D

I have less than 100 pages left.

It really is good, I just wasn’t in the mood. I will actually check it out again to pull something together about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. After that it’s “Terror in the East.”
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:58 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Waiting on "Weimar and Nazi Germany 1918-39."
It was taking too long for this to become available. The library did have both volumes of Stephen Kotkin’s Stalin biography available. So, I checked out both at the same time which means I’ll be reading like a mad bastard during any free time I have for the next couple of weeks.

See ya later.... :D
Alright, so about 100 pages left in the first volume.

It’s a bit wordy but there’s a lot of useful information. Kotkin tracks (in very painstaking detail) how Stalin took advantage of situations that came up to drive out rivals. The main rival being Trotsky, of course.


What I found interesting is that Kotkin doubts the authenticity of Lenin’s testament. He notes that it was released at a time when Lenin’s health declined rapidly and the testament itself was allegedly written a few months before. This would’ve prevented Lenin from repudiating it.

I doubt I will even start the 2nd volume before it has to go back, I will set it up to check out again.
So, finished. I set up an automated checkout for the second volume and will start on it when it arrives.

Final verdict:

It's worth a read of you want to know more about Stalin's early life and the inner workings of the Bolsheviks. It's very detailed regarding Stalin's maneuvers to eliminate his rivals (and his friends) as threats to his power. The most interesting revelation to me is Kotkin's doubts about the Lenin Testament that argued for the removal of Stalin regarding his rude behavior.

I doubt I will buy it though I will read the third volume when it is available. I find I am looking forward to the second volume that details the period from 1929-1941. I think this volume will be more focused due to the smaller time frame.
I checked out the second volume again and hope to finish it this time.
Yes, just checked this out again.

Seriously going to finish it this time...LOL
Slowly crawling toward the finish line.... :D

I have less than 100 pages left.

It really is good, I just wasn’t in the mood. I will actually check it out again to pull something together about the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. After that it’s “Terror in the East.”
Alright, so, finally finished.

I look forward to the third volume and I changed my mind about purchasing. That will wait until the third volume drops.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:32 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote: I look forward to the third volume and I changed my mind about purchasing. That will wait until the third volume drops.
I read the second volume last summer, and heartily agree that the detail involved is what makes it so valuable (as an analogy, it's something like reading Proust, which I also do with great gusto). About 900 pages of text to cover 12 years. That's a little more than a page devoted to each week of Stalin's life during this time. Man, that's detail! How Kotkin ever kept it all in his head, I can't imagine. It would be far beyond my poor aged, fuddled brain.

As to reading, today was the big sale at the public library. For $10, I got three books: Leni Yahil's weighty 1990 book The Holocaust, Daniel Goldhagen's 1996 Hitler's Willing Executioners, and The Case Against Eichmann, edited by Henry Zeiger and published after Eichmann was captured, but before the trial. As I'm barely started on the Stangneth book Eichmann Before Jerusalem, but finding it extremely engrossing, I'm going to be doing a lot of reading over the next couple of weeks. My wife has a meeting in Boston during some of that time. I'm going with her and will spend the time in the hotel room or the lobby reading up. I'm deliberately avoiding learning anything about debates internal to the community of Holocaust scholars. I can get into that later, after I've read enough to make a mature judgment. Right now, I need to approach everything I read neutrally, without any pre-conceived opinions.

And I'll still be miles behind the experts posting here...
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:12 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Daniel Goldhagen's 1996 Hitler's Willing Executioners
From memory, a number of reviews really cut at that book.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:07 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:Daniel Goldhagen's 1996 Hitler's Willing Executioners,
This one has some worth with the eyewitness testimonies and Goldhagen’s chapter on the death marches at the end of the war. I disagree with his conclusions on why the Germans attempted to destroy Europe’s Jews. I won’t go into more detail but open something here and we can talk about it when you are done.

I do suggest Christopher Browning’s Ordinary Men, he released an updated version a couple of years ago. Goldhagen’s book is a response to Ordinary Men.
and The As I'm barely started on the Stangneth book Eichmann Before Jerusalem, but finding it extremely engrossing,


That is a good one, I liked it as well.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:08 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Daniel Goldhagen's 1996 Hitler's Willing Executioners
From memory, a number of reviews really cut at that book.
Yes, I had heard that. As I said, I want to go into this with an open mind. But I'll be skeptical, as I always am.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Picked this up yesterday:

In Those Nightmarish Days: The Ghetto Reportage of Peretz Opoczynski and Josef Zelkowicz

I doubt I will get to it anytime soon but I wanted to grab it for the future.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:30 pm

Starting “SS Terror in the East: The Einsatzgruppen on Trial.”
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:49 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Starting “SS Terror in the East: The Einsatzgruppen on Trial.”
So first impression:

The format is difficult, it’s essentially a trial transcript (mentioned previously).

OTOH when it comes to Count One of the indictment it goes into very specific detail on dates and numbers (which is to be expected). I suspect I’ll be tracking these back to reports listed.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:36 pm

You’re going to want to read Hilary Earl’s book on the trial I have a feeling ....
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:40 pm

Probably. I need to reset my reading list.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:26 pm

Sort of took a detour, eating lunch in my office and happened upon “The Chronicle of the Łódź Ghetto.” I bought this some time ago, brought it in and never started it. I’m doing that now.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by nickterry » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Just got hold of Andrej Angrick's definitive study of 'Aktion 1005' today, on Kindle Print Replica. In German, alas, and given its length likely to stay that way. Might seem expensive at north of $70/£50 but it's actually 2 volumes in print; 1,381 pages, 4,205 footnotes, and covers everything from the camps to all of the regions affected by 1005. The maps included are very detailed and allow for a clear visualisation of where the 1005-visited sited were.
https://www.amazon.com/Aktion-1005-Spur ... dpSrc=srch

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Thanks, Nick. That is one I wish I could read, I am sure ralphie will read it.

I'm not going to do a review of Litvak & Webman, From Empathy to Denial, except to say that the picture painted is complex with crude denial employed by some Arab opinion-makers as a method of attacking Israel's legitimacy and for getting at the enemy; the authors make some judgments about Israel and Palestine which I found irritating (coming close at times to equating any recognition of the dispossession of Palestinians with Holocaust minimization or denial; ditto with what I consider crimes against humanity committed by western counties in wars, colonization, etc); and the authors also make some pretty nifty gaffes. One we all should enjoy goes as follows:
Such [more Holocaust denial] was the case of Egyptian journalist Hasan Rajab, who remained unconvinced that six million Jews were gassed, even after his trip to Auschwitz . . .
(p 375) Ouch.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:16 am

Packages from Mr Bezos on my arrival home included the following:

* Roger Griffin, Fascism [important to my reading right now]
* Z Ornea, The Romanian Extreme Right [D-H’s recommendation]
* E Barkan et al eds, Shared Memory - Divided Memory. Jews and Others in Soviet-Occupied Poland, 1939-1941 [looks killer, final paper is C Dieckmann on the Kaunas pogrom of June 1941]
* L Sullam, The Italian Executioners: The Genocide of the Jews of Italy
* A Kay & D Stahel eds, Mass Violence in Nazi Occupied Europe [with papers by Martin Dean, Dan Michman, Dovid Kotz (I’ve corresponded with him), and - ducking for cover - Waitman Beorn]
* A Beevor, The Second World War
* A Beevor, The Fall of Berlin 1945 [glad to see it ended this way]
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:20 am

These have now gone from probable to definite:

Götz Aly
Cleansing the Fatherland: Nazi Medicine and Racial Hygiene

Architects of Annihilation: Auschwitz and the Logic of Destruction 1St edition by Aly, Götz, Heim, Susanne
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:58 pm

Can anyone say which of David Irving's books is the best choice for reading the alternative view to H. Promotion?

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:34 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Packages from Mr Bezos on my arrival home included the following:
[..]
* A Beevor, The Second World War
* A Beevor, The Fall of Berlin 1945 [glad to see it ended this way]
Really don't recommend Beevor. He is documented to have lied in his books for publicity and political matters. TIK here documents some of his more recent lies:


Overall he's good at writing his books into stories, but they contain crucial lies, like his estimation of 100,000 rapes in Berlin. Hi is correct that rape was rampant with regard to the Soviet army, but the Soviets themselves took measures to try and crack down on this in 1945. (Recommended source for evidence: Norman Naimark's "The Russians in Germany")
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:36 am

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Packages from Mr Bezos on my arrival home included the following:
[..]
* A Beevor, The Second World War
* A Beevor, The Fall of Berlin 1945 [glad to see it ended this way]
Really don't recommend Beevor. He is documented to have lied in his books for publicity and political matters. TIK here documents some of his more recent lies:


Overall he's good at writing his books into stories, but they contain crucial lies, like his estimation of 100,000 rapes in Berlin. Hi is correct that rape was rampant with regard to the Soviet army, but the Soviets themselves took measures to try and crack down on this in 1945. (Recommended source for evidence: Norman Naimark's "The Russians in Germany")
The extent of the rapes is very difficult to judge, but it sounds like Beevor's source must be (I conjecture), The Reader's Digest or its equivalent. (Does it still exist? I haven't seen one for decades, but when I was growing up, every farm house in America had the last six months of this right-wing rag on the coffee table. It fed the McCarthy hysteria greedily. If I remember correctly, it also reported large numbers of rapes in Vienna while the Red Army was there.)

I don't have any numbers, so I won't attempt to compare the numbers committed by the Red Army with the numbers committed by the American Army. Certainly, one is too many. A genuine Hungarian fascist I used to know claimed that 8-year-old girls got raped by the Red Army. He never said how he knew that, though. The only information I have comes from Solzhenitsyn, who, after his arrest in 1944, was put in a cell with some soldiers who were accused of rape. If I remember correctly, he said the informal rule was that it was OK to rape Jewish, German, or Polish girls. Russian girls were not to be raped, but you could strip them naked and chase them around, "что тоже забавно" ("which is also fun"). His cellmates had got drunk and raped a girl who turned out to be not just "anybody's" but the mistress of their commanding officer. I can't find the exact passage right now. If I do, I'll see how many details that I've just given are correct.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:14 am

I don't need protection from mistakes or exaggerations in Beevor; I plan to read his books at some point and compare what he says to what other authors write.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Balmoral95 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:53 am

Reader's Digest is still around :lol:

And despite its editorial bent, it was the first mass market publication to take on the connection between cigarette smoking and major health problems about a decade before the US Surgeon General's Reporr of 1964.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:11 pm

In 2015, in contrast to my approach, the Ministry of Education for the Ykaterinburg region of Russia ordered Beevor's books withdrawn from schools and colleges.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Balmoral95 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:In 2015, in contrast to my approach, the Ministry of Education for the Ykaterinburg region of Russia ordered Beevor's books withdrawn from schools and colleges.
Agreed, look at Beevor as a broad brush. Plenty of other to fill in detail, add to, correct controversy. enjoy.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:52 am

I think my real reason for choosing Beevor's books are 1) a novelistic read in contrast to my usual fare and 2) Berlin 1945 - a kind of happy-sad victory parade - I always love it when Dolfy and his droogs go down.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think my real reason for choosing Beevor's books are 1) a novelistic read in contrast to my usual fare and 2) Berlin 1945 - a kind of happy-sad victory parade - I always love it when Dolfy and his droogs go down.
I enjoyed his writing style. Sometimes historians write like they are giving you instructions on how to set up stereo (cough, Longerich).
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:23 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:I think my real reason for choosing Beevor's books are 1) a novelistic read in contrast to my usual fare and 2) Berlin 1945 - a kind of happy-sad victory parade - I always love it when Dolfy and his droogs go down.
I enjoyed his writing style. Sometimes historians write like they are giving you instructions on how to set up stereo (cough, Longerich).
Longerich's writing lacks the sizzle and surprise of the latest Sonos set-up manual I read and falls far short of the instructions for my favorite camera in terms of suspense, action, and personality.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:25 am

Of course I say that but still intend to pick up his biography of Himmler.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:50 am

I think Longerich's work, including that bio and Goebbels' bio, along with The Unwritten Order and Holocaust (of which the Himmler bio is very repetitive), is really fine, despite the plodding and ponderous writing style.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:39 pm

BTW for those who are interested Kotkin’s third volume of his Stalin biography is due to be released in October of 2019.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:49 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Reader's Digest is still around :lol:

And despite its editorial bent, it was the first mass market publication to take on the connection between cigarette smoking and major health problems about a decade before the US Surgeon General's Reporr of 1964.
Yes, I remember that. That was a time when RD accepted no advertising, so it could afford to defy the powerful tobacco lobby. I don't know when it started accepting advertising. There was a whole midwestern culture that I grew up in, where my grandfather listened to Gabriel Heater every night at 6:15 during the Korean War, and J. Edgar Hoover was a much-admired man who had the whole country convinced that its biggest danger was Communist subversion, so everybody had to be on the lookout. I remember my mother writing to me when I was in college, warning me of the clever wiles of those Commies, who would try to get young men like me recruited into their sinister organizations. RD fed into that narrative perfectly.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:50 am

My father was a commie, so I was warned not to peruse Reader's Digest. LOL
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by VFX » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:54 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My father was a commie, so I was warned not to peruse Reader's Digest. LOL
My father was not a great fan of Communists. He reckoned they were good street fighters. In the end it was triumph of good over evil I guess.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:56 am

I just finished Bettina Stangneth's book Eichmann before Jerusalem, and I'm overawed by the quality of the scholarship it contains. She did an extremely valuable service, sifting through the Sassen documents, which were spread over a number of archives and in a terribly disordered state. I had not known before how Eichmann tried to dismiss all this incontrovertible evidence of his guilt during his trial. He claimed Sassen had provoked him into saying and writing all those Nazi doctrines. (Reminds me of Mark Fuhrmann's claim that the racist tape he was caught on during the OJ Simpson trial was done at the behest of a reporter who asked him to pretend to be a racist.) Even more, his dismissal of it sounds like Trump's claim that the Access Hollywood tape was "locker-room talk." And his attempts to be the judge ruling on its admissibility sound exactly like a claim that it was all "fake news" and couldn't be seriously used. It wasn't needed for the purpose of the trial, but still the prosecutor Gideon Hausner was deprived of what would have been his best evidence.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My father was a commie, so I was warned not to peruse Reader's Digest. LOL
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:03 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:I just finished Bettina Stangneth's book Eichmann before Jerusalem, and I'm overawed by the quality of the scholarship it contains. She did an extremely valuable service, sifting through the Sassen documents, which were spread over a number of archives and in a terribly disordered state. I had not known before how Eichmann tried to dismiss all this incontrovertible evidence of his guilt during his trial. He claimed Sassen had provoked him into saying and writing all those Nazi doctrines. (Reminds me of Mark Fuhrmann's claim that the racist tape he was caught on during the OJ Simpson trial was done at the behest of a reporter who asked him to pretend to be a racist.) Even more, his dismissal of it sounds like Trump's claim that the Access Hollywood tape was "locker-room talk." And his attempts to be the judge ruling on its admissibility sound exactly like a claim that it was all "fake news" and couldn't be seriously used. It wasn't needed for the purpose of the trial, but still the prosecutor Gideon Hausner was deprived of what would have been his best evidence.
Glad you liked it. I think it is one of the most important books on our painful topic recently published. When it came out, I read, along with it, Hausner's big book, Lipstadt's short book on the trial (surprisingly good), large swaths of the trial proceedings and testimonies, some of Eichmann's writings, Lozowick's book on Eichmann's office's activities in western Europe as seen in documents, and Less' interrogations of Eichmann, I didn't re-read Arendt, Safrian, Rabinovici, or Cesarani - but looked back at them a bit. Eichmann was really a repulsive person.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Upton_O_Goode wrote:I just finished Bettina Stangneth's book Eichmann before Jerusalem, and I'm overawed by the quality of the scholarship it contains. She did an extremely valuable service, sifting through the Sassen documents, which were spread over a number of archives and in a terribly disordered state. I had not known before how Eichmann tried to dismiss all this incontrovertible evidence of his guilt during his trial. He claimed Sassen had provoked him into saying and writing all those Nazi doctrines. (Reminds me of Mark Fuhrmann's claim that the racist tape he was caught on during the OJ Simpson trial was done at the behest of a reporter who asked him to pretend to be a racist.) Even more, his dismissal of it sounds like Trump's claim that the Access Hollywood tape was "locker-room talk." And his attempts to be the judge ruling on its admissibility sound exactly like a claim that it was all "fake news" and couldn't be seriously used. It wasn't needed for the purpose of the trial, but still the prosecutor Gideon Hausner was deprived of what would have been his best evidence.
Glad you liked it. I think it is one of the most important books on our painful topic recently published. When it came out, I read, along with it, Hausner's big book, Lipstadt's short book on the trial (surprisingly good), large swaths of the trial proceedings and testimonies, some of Eichmann's writings, Lozowick's book on Eichmann's office's activities in western Europe as seen in documents, and Less' interrogations of Eichmann, I didn't re-read Arendt, Safrian, Rabinovici, or Cesarani - but looked back at them a bit. Eichmann was really a repulsive person.
This too is all about the promotion of yourself. You need to do that in so many examples of your behavior and we're going to eventually find out why that is. Sorry, but you all had a chance to straighten up, but you chose not to. Not to say that you can't now. It's never too late.

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:32 pm

OK, let's start with these, BT.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:12 pm

List from Nick Terry, it’s probably a duplicate but anyway:

Poliakov, Harvest of Hate 1951 481 notes
Reitlinger, The Final Solution 1953 1660 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1961 1st edition) 1961 3413 notes
Levin, The Holocaust 1970 693 notes
Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 1975 598 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1985 2nd edition) 1985 4329 notes
Gilbert, The Holocaust 1986 2097 notes
Yahil, The Holocaust 1990 1784 notes
Friedlander, Years of Persecution 1997 1147 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition) 2003 4711 notes
Friedlander, Years of Extermination 2006/7 2431 notes
Bloxham, The Final Solution 2009 557 notes
Longerich, Holocaust 2010 2263 notes
Goda, The Holocaust: Europe, the Jews and the World 2013 1440 notes
Cesarani, Final Solution 2016 1604 notes
Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016 2404 notes
Aly, Europa gegen die Juden 1880-1945 2016 473 notes
Rees, The Holocaust: A New History 2017 1176 notes
16 books (25,519 notes)

And here are 392 specialist monographs tackling thematic aspects of the Holocaust or Nazi regime that would be considered important; 211 in English, the rest in German, French, Polish and the occasional Russian title. Obviously only a fraction of the total research, but these titles would include many works regarded as essential. Only a few books listed are regarded as superseded (mostly titles before the 1990s - although some still stand up, like Trunk's Judenrat) or are seen as seriously flawed (eg Goldhagen).

1. Breitman, The Architect of Genocide 1991 936 notes
2. Longerich, Himmler 2008 (2012) 3509 notes
3. Zelle, Hitlers zweifelnde Elite 2010 1192 notes
4. Longerich, Hitler: Biographie 2015 4800 notes
5. Pyta, Hitler. Der Künstler als Politiker und Feldherr 2015 2928 notes
6. Kaplan, Between Dignity and Despair 1998 539 notes
7. Wildt, Hitler’s Volksgemeinschaft 2007 (2011) 858 notes
8. Steinweis, Kristallnacht 2009 411 notes
9. Ahlheim, ‘Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Juden!’ 2011 1540 notes
10. Essner, Nürnberger Gesetze 2002 1749 notes
11. Jasch, Staatssekretär Wilhelm Stuckart und die Judenpolitik 2012
12. Reuth, Goebbels 1990 (2013) 3157 notes
13. Barth, Goebbels und die Juden 2003 1347 notes
14. Meyer zu Uptrup, Kampf gegen die “jüdische Weltverschwörung” 2003 1488 notes
15. Piper, Alfred Rosenberg: Hitlers Chefideologe 2005 (2015) 2361 notes
16. Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006 842 notes
17. Longerich, Goebbels: A Biography 2012 (2015) 4235 notes
18. Roos, Julius Streicher und Der Stürmer 2014 2465 notes
19. Trunk, Judenrat (English) 1972 2029 notes
20. Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos 2002 2162 notes
21. Michman, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust 2011 392 notes
22. Kogon et al, Nazi Mass Murder with Poison Gas 1983 551 notes
23. Schneppen, Walter Rauff 2011 411 notes
24. Morsch/Perz (eds), Neue Studien 2011 1249 notes
25. Adam, Judenpolitik im Dritten Reich 1972 1834 notes
26. Friedman, Roads to Extinction 1980 1174 notes
27. Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution 1982 (1994) 445 notes
28. L’Allemagne nazie et le genocide juif 1985 1408 notes
29. Jäckel/Rohwehr (eds), Der Mord an den europäischen Juden 1985 321 notes
30. Benz (ed), Dimension des Völkermordes 1991 2703 notes
31. Cesarani (ed) The Final Solution 1994 850 notes
32. Manoschek, “Serbien ist judenfrei” 1995 791 notes
33. Goldhagen, Hitler’s Willing Executioners 1996
34. Jansen, Der Madagaskar Plan 1997 833 notes
35. Brechtken, “Madagaskar für die Juden” 1998 1316 notes
36. Berenbaum/Peck (eds), The Holocaust and History 1998 2036 notes
37. Herbert (ed), National Socialist Extermination Policies 1998/2000 817 notes
38. Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers 2000 586 notes
39. Longerich, The Unwritten Order 2001 456 notes
40. Bankier/Gutman (eds), Nazi Europe and the Final Solution 2003 1205 notes
41. Browning, Origins of the Final Solution 2004 1853 notes
42. Brayard, La “solution finale de la question juive” 2004 2434 notes
43. Rupnow, Vernichten und Erinnern 2005
44. Zimmermann (ed), On Germans and Jews under the Nazi Regime 2006 886 notes
45. Berkowitz, The Crime of My Very Existence 2007 820 notes
46. Hoffmann, ‘Das kann man nicht erzählen’ (1005) 2008 1135 notes
47. Gigliotti, The Train Journey 2009 634 notes
48. Brayard, Auschwitz, enquête sur un complot nazi 2012 1198 notes
49. Confino, A World Without Jews 2014 418 notes
50. Angrick, ‘Aktion 1005’ 2018 4205 notes
51. Mallmann/Paul (eds), Karrieren der Gewalt 2004
52. Cüppers, Wegbereiter des Shoahs 2005 1719 notes
53. Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions 2005 1166 notes
54. Welzer, Täter 2005 569 notes
55. Klemp, Nicht ermittelt 2005/2011 1497 notes
56. Schneider, Auswärts eingesetzt: Bremer Polizeibataillone 2011
57. Lower, Hitler’s Furies 2013
58. Kipp, ‘Grossreinmachen im Osten’ 2014
59. Kühl, Ganz normale Organisationen 2014
60. Black, Kaltenbrunner 1984 717 notes
61. Paul/Mallmann (eds), Die Gestapo im Zweiten Weltkrieg 2000
62. Herbert, Best 2001 1426 notes
63. Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation 2002 2389 notes
64. Husson, Heydrich et la solution finale 2008/2012 1331 notes
65. Ingrao, Believe and Destroy 2010 (2013) 1179 notes
66. Gerwarth, Hitler’s Hangman 2011 1208 notes
67. Gafke, Heydrichs Ostmärker 2015
68. Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries 2005 997 notes
69. Dean, Robbing the Jews 2008 1429 notes
70. Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis 2006 1290 notes
71. Tooze, Wages of Destruction 2006 2088 notes
72. Linne/Dierl (eds), Arbeitskräfte als Kriegsbeute 2011
73. Hensel//Lehnstaedt (eds) Arbeit in den nationalsozialistischen Ghettos 2013
74. Roseman, The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting 2003 357 notes
75. Kampe/Klein (eds), Die Wannsee-Konferenz 2013 1150 notes
76. Longerich, Wannseekonferenz 2016 389 notes
77. Aly/Heim, Architects of Annihilation 1991 (2002) 987 notes
78. Aly, Final Solution 1995 982 notes
79. Heinemann, Rasse, Siedlung, deutsches Blut 2003 1612 notes
80. Petersen, Bevölkerungsökonomie - Ostforschung – Politik (Seraphim) 2006
81. Wolf, Ideologie und Herrschaftsrationalität 2012 1268 notes
82. Ingrao, La promesse de l’Est 2016 662 notes
83. Sabrow/Frei (eds), Die Geburt des Zeitzeugen nach 1945 2012 908 notes
84. Taft, From Victim to Survivor 2013 714 notes
85. Taubitz, Holocaust Oral History und das lange Ende… 2016 904 notes
86. Michman, Holocaust Historiography 2003 1177 notes
87. Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust 2004 1822 notes
88. Bankier/Michman (eds), Holocaust Historiography in Context 2008 1284 notes
89. Engel, Historians of the Jews and the Holocaust 2009 916 notes
90. Lawson, Debates on the Holocaust 2010 953 notes
91. Stone, Histories of the Holocaust 2010 926 notes
92. Stone (ed), The Holocaust and Historical Methodology 2013 865 notes
93. Laqueur, The Terrible Secret 1980 280 notes
94. Gilbert, Auschwitz and the Allies 1981 833 notes
95. Rubinstein, The Myth of Rescue 1997 (2000) 626 notes
96. Breitman, Official Secrets 1998 752 notes
97. Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred 2002 620 notes
98. Bankier (ed), Secret Intelligence and the Holocaust 2006 789 notes
99. Hamerow, Why We Watched 2008 442 notes
100. Caestecker/Moore (eds), Refugees from Nazi Germany 2010 995 notes
101. Plesch, America, Hitler and the UN 2011 383 notes
102. Gorny, The Jewish Press and the Holocaust 2012 624 notes
103. Segev, World Jewish Congress and Holocaust 2014 474 notes
104. Porat, The Blue and Yellow Stars of David 1986 (1990) 538 notes
105. Ofer, Escaping the Holocaust 1988 (1990) 868 notes
106. Friling, Arrows in the Dark 1998 (2005) 2047 notes
107. Koblik, The Stones Cry Out 1988 306 notes
108. Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust 1988 (1999) 565 notes
109. Haas, Wenn man gewusst hätte 1994 (1997) 593 notes
110. Levine, From Indifference to Activism 1996 (1998) 859 notes
111. Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust 2000 969 notes
112. Zuccotti, Under His Very Windows 2002 1061 notes
113. Mächler, Hilfe und Ohnmacht 2005 608 notes
114. Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe 1979 1135 notes
115. Kushner, The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination 1990 750 notes
116. Bolchover, British Jewry and the Holocaust 1993 (2003) 635 notes
117. Sompolinsky, Britain and the Holocaust 1999 988 notes
118. London, Whitehall and the Jews 2000 925 notes
119. Cohen, Rescue the Perishing 2010 1029 notes
120. Bankier, The Germans and the Final Solution 1992 609 notes
121. Longerich, ‘Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!’ 2006 1233 notes
122. Bajohr/Pohl, Massenmord und schlechtes Gewissen 2006 306 notes
123. Dörner, Die Deutschen und der Holocaust 2007 2265 notes
124. Berkhoff, Motherland in Danger 2012 955 notes
125. Lanicek, Czechs, Slovaks and the Jews 2013 1145 notes
126. Lanicek/Jordan (eds), Governments-in-Exile and the Jews 2013 650 notes
127. Feingold, The Politics of Rescue 1970 966 notes
128. Ross, So It Was True 1980 752 notes
129. Bauer, American Jewry and the Holocaust 1981 739 notes
130. Penkower, The Jews Were Expendable 1983 770 notes
131. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews 1984 1281 notes
132. Lookstein, Were We Our Brothers’ Keepers? 1985 623 notes
133. Lipstadt, Beyond Belief 1986 879 notes
134. Feingold, Bearing Witness to the Holocaust 1995 482 notes
135. Leff, Buried By The Times 2005 876 notes
136. Hurwitz, Jews Without Power 2011 (2015) 1053 notes
137. Wallance, America’s Soul in the Balance 2012 482 notes
138. Breitman/Lichtman, FDR and the Jews 2013 868 notes
139. Medoff, FDR and the Holocaust 2013 314 notes
140. Medoff, The Anguish of a Jewish Leader 2015 336 notes
141. Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz 1987 911 notes
142. Engel, Facing a Holocaust 1993 903 notes
143. Stola, Nadzieja i zaglada 1995 1140 notes
144. Puławski, W obliczu Zagłady 2009 2386 notes
145. Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015 2067 notes
146. Bloxham, Genocide on Trial 2001 989 notes
147. Douglas, The Memory of Judgment 2001 465 notes
148. Weinke, Die Verfolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland 2002 1499 notes
149. Weindling, Nazi Medicine and the Nuremberg Trials 2004 2189 notes
150. Hasian, Rhetorical Vectors of Memory 2006 986 notes
151. Heberer/Matthäus (eds), Atrocities on Trial 2008 886 notes
152. Weinke, Eine Gesellschaft ermittelt gegen sich selbst 2008 728 notes
153. Mallmann/Angrick (eds), Die Gestapo nach 1945 2009
154. Hebert, Hitler’s Generals on Trial 2010 870 notes
155. Segev, Simon Wiesenthal 2010 1026 notes
156. Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011 2400 notes
157. Eichmüller, Keine Generalamnestie 2012 1352 notes
158. Raim, Justiz zwischen Diktatur und Demokratie 2013 5422 notes
159. Tisseron, La France et le process de Nuremberg 2014 749 notes
160. Jockusch/Finder (eds), Jewish Honor Courts 2015 1107 notes
161. Klee, “Euthanasie” im NS-Staat 1983 1606 notes
162. Burleigh, Death and Deliverance 1994 972 notes
163. Riess, Die Anfänge der Vernichtung ‘lebensunwertes Lebens’ 1994
164. Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide 1995 1745 notes
165. Bryant, Confronting the Good Death 2005
166. Schmidt, Karl Brandt: The Nazi Doctor 2007 1955 notes
167. Aly, Die Belasteten 2013 454 notes
168. Krausnick/Wilhelm, Truppen des Weltanschauungskrieges 1981 2107 notes
169. Headland, Messages of Mass Murder 1992 1168 notes
170. Ogorreck, Die Einsatzgruppen und die ‘Genesis der Endlösung’ 1996 780 notes
171. Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial 2009 1352 notes
172. Heer/Naumann (eds), Vernichtungskrieg 1995 1482 notes
173. Manoschek (ed), Die Wehrmacht im Rassenkrieg 1996 412 notes
174. Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust 2000 1019 notes
175. Altman, Zhertvy nenavisti 2002
176. Curilla, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust 2006 8270 notes
177. Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006 953 notes
178. Huerter, Hitlers Heerfuehrer 2007 2594 notes
179. Pohl, Die Herrschaft der Wehrmacht 2008 1404 notes
180. Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union 2009 1747 notes
181. Bauer, The Death of the Shtetl 2009 328 notes
182. Hasenclever, Wehrmacht und Besatzungspolitik 2010 3107 notes
183. Kay/Rutherford/Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941 2012 1053 notes
184. Streit, Keine Kameraden 1978/1991 1780 notes
185. Römer, Der Kommissarbefehl 2008 2175 notes
186. Keller, Sowjetische Kriegsgefangene im Deutschen Reich 1941/42 2011 1591 notes
187. Shneyer, Pariahs Among Pariahs 2016
188. Spector, Holocaust of Volhynian Jewry 1986 (1990) 750 notes
189. Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair 2004 1620 notes
190. Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews 2005 1508 notes
191. Lower, Nazi Empire-Building 2005 756 notes
192. Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine 2008 1105 notes
193. Christ, Die Dynamik des Tötens 2011 616 notes
194. Burds, The Holocaust in Rovno 2013 222 notes
195. Angrick, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord 2003 1933 notes
196. Oldenburg, Ideologie und militärische Kalkül 2004 1299 notes
197. Kunz, Die Krim unter deutscher Herrschaft 1941-1944 2005 ?
198. Wrochem, von, Erich von Manstein: Vernichtungskrieg 2006 (2009) 1795 notes
199. Feferman, The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus 2016 1887 notes
200. Cholawsky, The Jews of Bielorussia during World War II 1982 (1998) 576 notes
201. Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde 1999 6309 notes
202. Shepherd, War in the Wild East 2004 704 notes
203. Epstein, The Minsk Ghetto 2008 389 notes
204. Hartmann, Wehrmacht im Ostkrieg 2009 4871 notes
205. Brakel, Unter Rotem Stern und Hakenkreuz 2009 2020 notes
206. Quinkert, Propaganda und Terror 2009 1920 notes
207. Rentrop, Tatorte der ‘Endloesung’ 2011 969 notes
208. Rein, The Kings and the Pawns 2011 1472 notes
209. Cohen, Smolensk under the Nazis 2013 1223 notes
210. Beorn, Marching into Darkness 2014 1055 notes
211. Pieper, Fegelein’s Horsemen 2014 811 notes
212. Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016 896 notes
213. Kugler, Scherwitz 2004 908 notes
214. Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006 1282 notes
215. Birn, Die Sicherheitspolizei in Estland 2006
216. Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred 2009 1339 notes
217. Schneppen, Ghettokommandant in Riga 2009 836 notes
218. Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 2011 6712 notes
219. Reichelt, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944 2011 1270 notes
220. Wette, Karl Jäger 2011 586 notes
221. Kilian, Wehrmacht und Besatzungsherrschaft im Nordwesten 2012 2854 notes
222. Plath, Zwischen Schonung und Menschenjagd 2012 1786 notes
223. Tauber, Arbeit als Hoffnung: Jüdische Ghettos in Litauen 1941-1944 2015 3020 notes
224. Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania 2000 1378 notes
225. Solonari, Purifying the Nation 2010 1268 notes
226. Baum, Varianten des Terrors 2011 2595 notes
227. Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania 2011 1909 notes
228. Steinhart, The Holocaust and the Germanization of Ukraine 2015 933 notes
229. Dumitru, The state, antisemitism and collaboration in the Holocaust 2016 1019 notes
230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes
239. Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw 1982 698 notes
240. Paulsson, Secret City 2002 547 notes
241. Levin, Walls Around 2003 (2004) 411 notes
242. Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007 1193 notes
243. Engelking/Leociak (eds), Prowincja noc 2007 1986 notes
244. Libionka/Weinbaum, Bohaterowie, hochsztaplerzy, opisywacze 2011 1512 notes
245. Klemp, Vernichtung 2013 590 notes
246. Roth/Schmidt, Judenmord in Ostrów Mazowiecka 2013 332 notes
247. Karay, Death Comes in Yellow 1996
248. Seidel, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Polen 2006 2032 notes
249. Mlynarczyk, Judenmord in Zentralpolen 2007 1338 notes
250. Browning, Remembering Survival 2010 1449 notes
251. Crowe, Oskar Schindler 2004 1836 notes
252. Grabowski, Hunt for the Jews 2011 (2013) 505 notes
253. Hembera, Die Shoah im Distrikt Krakau (Tarnow) 2016 1548 notes
254. Browning, Ordinary Men 1992 511 notes
255. Pohl, Von der “Judenpolitik” zum Judenmord 1993 863 notes
256. Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung 1999 1384 notes
257. Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013 748 notes
258. Pohl, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1996 2153 notes
259. Sandkühler, “Endlösung” in Galizien 1996 1050 notes
260. Redlich, Together and Apart in Brzezany 2002 371 notes
261. Bartov, Erased 2007 190 notes
262. Struve, Deutsche Herrschaft 2015
263. Bender, The Jews of Bialystok 1997 (2008) 1018 notes
264. Gross, Neighbors 2000 (2001) 169 notes
265. Zbikowski, U genezy Jedwabnego 2006 940 notes
266. Stoll, Die Herstellung der Wahrheit 2012 2041 notes
267. Schwindt, Majdanek 2005 1475 notes
268. Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2009 (2015) 1408 notes
269. Lenarcyzk/Libionka (eds), Erntefest 2009 1518 notes
270. Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland 2003 1100 notes
271. Böhler, Auftakt zum Vernichtungskrieg 2006 1110 notes
272. Wardzyńska, Był rok 1939 2009 277 notes
273. Majer, “Non-Germans” Under the Third Reich 1981 (2013) 3935 notes
274. Krakowski, The War of the Doomed 1984 565 notes
275. Tomaszewski/Werbowski, Code Name: Zegota 1994 (2010) 74 notes
276. Housden, Hans Frank and Lebensraum 2003 1411 notes
277. Jockheck, Propaganda im Generalgouvernement 2006 1116 notes
278. Schenk, Hans Frank 2006 1442 notes
279. Loose, Kredite für NS-Verbrechen 2007 2023 notes
280. Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution 2007 744 notes
281. Roth, Herrenmenschen 2009 1233 notes
282. Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen 2011 8405 notes
283. Gross, Golden Harvest 2011 (2012) 180 notes
284. Żbikowski, Karski 2011 375 notes
285. Medykowski, W cieniu gigantow 2012 686 notes
286. Böhler/Lehnstaedt (eds), Gewalt und Alltag im besetzten Polen 2012
287. Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka 1987 688 notes
288. Schelvis, Sobibor 1998/2003 662 notes
289. Musial (ed), Aktion Reinhard 2004 1296 notes
290. Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik 2004 463 notes
291. Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps 2007 551 notes
292. Kuwalek, Das Vernichtungslager Belzec 2011/2013 713 notes
293. Berger, Experten der Vernichtung 2013 1698 notes
294. Rashke, Useful Enemies 2013 542 notes
295. Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014 667 notes
296. Benz, Handlager der SS 2015 1185 notes
297. Wienert, Das Lager vorstellen 2015
298. Safrian, Eichmann’s Men 1993 (2010) 1109 notes
299. Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2000 (2002) 787 notes
300. Yablonka, The State of Israel vs Adolf Eichmann 2001 (2004) 843 notes
301. Wojak, Eichmanns Memoiren 2001
302. Cesarani, Eichmann 2004 1024 notes
303. Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2011 (2014) 1406 notes
304. Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office 1978 811 notes
305. Döscher, Das Auswärtige Amt im Dritten Reich 1987 1085 notes
306. Weitkamp, Braune Diplomaten 2008 2112 notes
307. Conzeet al, Das Amt und die Vergangenheit 2010
308. Adler, The Jews of Paris and the Final Solution 1985 (1987) 924 notes
309. Poznanski, Jews in France during World War II 1997 (2001) 2446 notes
310. Lafitte, Un engrenage fatal 2003 913 notes
311. Brunner, Die Frankreich-Komplex 2004 1257 notes
312. Meyer, Täter im Verhör 2005 1,599 notes
313. Lieb, Konventioneller Krieg oder NS-Weltanschauungskrieg? 2007
314. Seibel, Persecution and Rescue 2010 (2016) 944 notes
315. Wieviorka/Lafitte, A l’intérieur du camp de Drancy 2012 490 notes
316. Semelin, Persecutions et entraides dans la France occupee 2013
317. Michman (ed), Belgium and the Holocaust 1998 1143 notes
318. Van Doorslaer (ed), La Belgique docile 2007 4252 notes
319. Meinen, Die Shoah in Belgien 2012 552 notes
320. Meinen/Meyer, Verfolgt von Land zu Land 2013 660 notes
321. Moore, Victims and Survivors 1997 914 notes
322. Ritz, Schreibtischtäter vor Gericht 2012 743 notes
323. Steinberg, All or Nothing 1990 799 notes
324. Mazower, Inside Hitler’s Greece 1993 807 notes
325. Guttstadt, Die Türkei, die Juden und der Holocaust 2008
326. Bowman, The Agony of Greek Jewry 2009 760 notes
327. Moore, Survivors 2010 1508 notes
328. Meyer, Das Wissen um Auschwitz 2010 556 notes
329. Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz 2012 873 notes
330. Korb, Im Schatten des Weltkrieges 2013
331. Rabinovici, Eichmann’s Jews 2000 (2011) 735 notes
332. Rothkirchen, The Jews of Bohemia & Moravia 2005 1440 notes
333. Gottwaldt/Schulle, Die Judendeportationen aus dem deutschen Reich 2005
334. Osterloh, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung im Sudetenland 2006
335. Meyer, A Fatal Balancing Act 2011 (2013) 1513 notes
336. Jah, Die Deportation der Juden aus Berlin 2013
337. Kuller, Bürokratie und Verbrechen 2013
338. Gruner, Die Judenverfolgung im Protektorat 2016 1823 notes
339. Ben-Tov, Facing the Holocaust in Budapest 1988 690 notes
340. Kranzler, The Man Who Stopped The Trains to Auschwitz 2000 864 notes
341. Gerlach/Aly, Das letzte Kapitel 2002 1870 notes
342. Cole, Holocaust City 2003 788 notes
343. Levine, Raul Wallenberg in Budapest 2010 951 notes
344. Bogdanor, Kasztner’s Crime 2016 790 notes
345. Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz 1994 318 notes
346. Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz 1994 1160 notes
347. Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 1995/2000 3286 notes
348. Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz 1996 679 notes
349. Wagner, IG Auschwitz 2000 1308 notes
350. Steinbacher, ‘Musterstadt’ Auschwitz 2000 1632 notes
351. Pelt, van, The Case for Auschwitz 2002 931 notes
352. Friedler/Siebert/Kilian, Zeugen aus der Todeszone 2002 895 notes
353. Zürcher, Wir machten die schwarzen Arbeit des Holocaust 2004 839 notes
354. Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial 2006 1227 notes
355. Dirks, “Die Verbrechen der anderen” 2006 1275 notes
356. Knopp, Wir lebten mitten im Tod 2009 380 notes
357. Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust 2010 1301 notes
358. Lang, Die Frauen von Block 10 2011 713 notes
359. Stengel, Hermann Langbein 2012 2219 notes
360. Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014 847 notes
361. Greif/Levin, Aufstand in Auschwitz 2015 446 notes
362. Dobosiewicz, Vernichtungslager Gusen 1977 (2007) 347 notes
363. Pingel, Häftlinge unter SS-Herrschaft 1978 578 notes
364. Herbert/Dieckmann/Orth (eds), Die nationalsozialistischen KL 1998
365. Orth, Das System der nationalsozialistischen KL 1999 1234 notes
366. Wenck, Zwischen Menschenhandel und “Endlösung” 2000 1461 notes
367. Orth, Die Konzentrationslager-SS 2000
368. Lotfi, KZ der Gestapo 2000
369. Schulte, Zwangsarbeit und Vernichtung 2001 1778 notes
370. Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002 726 notes
371. Strebel, Das KZ Ravensbrück 2003 2625 notes
372. Kaienburg, Die Wirtschaft der SS 2003 3688 notes
373. Steegman, Natzweiler 2005 (2010) 1985 notes
374. Kaienburg, Der Militär- und Wirtschaftskomplex Oranienburg 2006 1208 notes
375. Gutternan, A Narrow Bridge to Life 2008 725 notes
376. Buggeln, Arbeit & Gewalt (translated as Slave Labor) 2009 1976 notes
377. Schalm, Überleben durch Arbeit? 2009
378. Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany 2010 675 notes
379. Blatman, The Death Marches 2011 1836 notes
380. Weigelt, Judenmord im Reichsgebiet 2011 2388 notes
381. Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012 616 notes
382. Adam, Die Arbeiterfrage soll mot Hilfe von KZ-Häftlingen gelöst w.. 2013 1890 notes
383. Rudorff, Frauen in den Aussenlagern des KL Gross-Rosen 2014 1640 notes
384. Scheck, Zwangsarbeit und Massensterben 2014 942 notes
385. Weindling, Victims and Survivors of Nazi Human Expts 2015 1042 notes
386. Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015 510 notes
387. Wachsmann, KL 2015 3423 notes
388. Wünschmann, Before Auschwitz 2015 1069 notes
389. Stone, The Liberation of the Camps 2015 739 notes
390. Hördler, Ordnung und Inferno 2015 2086 notes
391. Dillon, Dachau and the SS 2015 1439 notes
392. Keller, Volksgemeinschaft am Ende 2013

How it works: on any given topic, all recent titles that explored relevant source bases, regardless of language = what one should read. To give the example of Chelmno, while Montague's book on Chelmno is the most recent study, it did not use the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records which contain innumerable contemporary documents about SS-Sonderkommando Kulmhof; these are discussed by Alberti and Klein. One would realistically expect someone to read at least one of Epstein, Horwitz, Loew, or Trunk re the Lodz ghetto/Warthegau.

230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes

Fortunately for non-German readers as well as cheapskates/lazybones who don't want to go to bookstores or libraries, Hans Metzner at HC has been blogging about Chelmno for some time, presenting translations of key sources as well as facsimiles, including from the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records.

It would be impossible to take seriously anyone who has not absorbed, at least via the secondary literature, the significance of the GVL sources for our knowledge and understanding of Chelmno, just as it would be impossible to take seriously anyone who ignored the 1945 Polish investigation or the early 1960s West German investigation of Chelmno.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:20 pm

BTW I guess I’m a cheapskate but damn...some of these books cost serious dough and I’m a freakin’ civil servant....

:lol:

I did find some books from the library, others at used bookstores and others have cheaper Kindle versions that are often a fraction of the cost of a physical copy (Montague’s book on Chelmno cost 80.00 for a physical copy vs. 19.99 for a Kindle version.)

At other times I simply bit the bullet and absorbed the cost of a physical copy.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951