Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:22 pm

montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:.....
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? ....
Of course not. From the initial criminal/military investigations for Nuremberg to the historical investigations that have been carried out over the past 60 or so years to journalists revealing people who have lied about being witnesses, there have been many corrections. Examples are; no mass gassing at Dachau (possibly no gassing at all), the changing of the plaque at Auschwitz reducing the number dead, the uncovering of Joseph Hurt and his false testimony about Mengele.

The deniers can be identified as those who use arguments from ignorance and incredulity to suggest witnesses lied, exaggerated or told impossible stories. Examples are; the use of diesel engines which failed to identify the difference between actual eye witnesses and hearsay testimony, the not enough wood was used in mass pyres claim which failed to understand body fat burns as a fuel and the wick effect, the there was not enough cyanide residue in the gas chambers claim which failed to establish how much there would have been under the conditions described.
Thank you for those frank comments in what appear to be your own words! And so now, with all due respects, what are we supposed to do with that information?
You should now know the difference between genuine historical, evidenced based enquiry into the Holocaust, which does identify genuine errors, lies and exaggerations and the denier opinion and fallacy based enquiry which is riddled with errors.
I've consistently said that we can't excuse it or just ignore it. Debates in real life don't work that way. It has weight and that's why I've taken the approach of having bobbo, you, or somebody suggest a link for me to read that would pertain to their own issue, then maybe JeffK could produce a link that refutes it.

So honestly and truly, where do we go now? You've made a huge all encompassing statement:
Examples are; no mass gassing at Dachau (possibly no gassing at all),........
In all honesty, it's left me bewildered and wondering what your intent was in saying that, and then, what can I say to that? Am I to now accept that the holocaust did indeed happen, sans the gas chambers?

If my thinking on what you have said has been taken out of context then all I can say is that it wasn't deliberate. I'll wait for your reply.
That comment was only in relation to Dachau. The gas chambers were either used for a few gassings or they were not used at all. There is a split in opinion about that.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:28 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Did I miss where montgomery finally discussed the topic of this thread and took up the question he asked was asked about his assertion?
Shouldn't you be working on your trolling accusation?
Still dodging . . . you were challenged like so:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . you've already stated that this thread reached a "stalemate." How on earth did you decide this if you still need, as you so quaintly and ineptly put it, "to examine each piece of evidence on how it can or cannot stand alone." Yes, assessing and understanding this topic takes time, but no one is rushing you. The simple fact is that you've made claims, which one expects to be based on your conclusions about the evidence, but now you won't defend what you've asserted. We know why: you blurted out crap that sounds good to you, but you haven't done your homework.

You also say that "There is a lot of factual evidence and a lot of lies and exaggerations concerning the holocaust."

You are, after all, being asked what are the lies and exaggerations you keep mentioning. How can you know these exist, in Roberto's report or in what people have posted in this thread, if you have yet to "examine" the evidence? . . .
I get why you keep avoiding the challenge.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:32 pm

It's because there's evidence involved, innit. Seems something the little one "is allergic to".
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:39 pm

Reading, evidence, coherence, focus, research, thought, knowledge . . . yeah.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Reading, evidence, coherence, focus, research, thought, knowledge . . . yeah.
According to him he has been invited to join both CODOH and RODOH. As a "scholar in residence" perhaps ?" :lol:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:32 am

Perhaps lost in the distractions, keep an eye out for more outside material on the Einsatzgruppen . . . will post links when available.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Perhaps lost in the distractions, keep an eye out for more outside material on the Einsatzgruppen . . . will post links when available.
I get why you keep avoiding the challenge.


And I get why you're continuously challenging. You desperately need me to be a holocaust denier because you fear any close examination of your established views. And I'm making sure that you don't get any satisfaction from me.

In any case, you've said you're going to ignore me if I don't stick to the topics you want to talk about. I'm very comfortable with that approach because it's all I've wanted from the beginning.

If you have balanced your reading and have a knowledge of the subject both pro and con, do you have any recommendations on hard copy books?

At this stage of the game, I'm a lot interested in testing others on their level of knowledge of the holocaust. Those who are truly educated and openminded on the topic will have equal knowledge from both sides. I would consider those that don't have that, have nothing worth trusting.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:29 pm

Friedrich Kellner, from his diary, 28 October 1941:
A soldier on leave said he personally witnessed a terrible atrocity in the occupied part of Poland. He watched as naked Jewish men and women were placed in front of a long ditch and, upon the order of the SS, were shot by Ukrainians in the back of their heads, and they fell into the ditch. Then the ditch was filled in as screams kept coming from it! . . . [E]ven the Ukrainians used for the manual labor suffered nervous breakdowns.
Kellner's disgusted judgment: "Ninety-nine percent of the German people, directly or indirectly, carry the guilt for the present situation." (p 145)
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:41 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Friedrich Kellner, from his diary, 28 October 1941:
A soldier on leave said he personally witnessed a terrible atrocity in the occupied part of Poland. He watched as naked Jewish men and women were placed in front of a long ditch and, upon the order of the SS, were shot by Ukrainians in the back of their heads, and they fell into the ditch. Then the ditch was filled in as screams kept coming from it! . . . [E]ven the Ukrainians used for the manual labor suffered nervous breakdowns.
Kellner's disgusted judgment: "Ninety-nine percent of the German people, directly or indirectly, carry the guilt for the present situation." (p 145)
A little unusual that people who have been shot in the head would be screaming? Even those who were missed or received glancing bullet wounds may not be in any condition to scream? However, it's still possilbe, but not all that plausible. It deserves some closer scrutiny before a skeptic would be able to form an opinion. Can you provide any more information that would bolster your story?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:43 am

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There've been documented cases where a bullet entered a head at just the right angle to simply go for a round inside without doing serious/fatal damage. But go ahead, say it. We know you're itching to: There wouldn't have been any screaming survivors buried alive if members of the Herrenrasse had done the shooting themselves.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:54 am

If I guess correctly why you posted that, Monty owes me a C-note?

(Promise I won't look at what he said) :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:57 am

Hope my edit doesn't ruin your surefire bet. :lol:
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:00 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Hope my edit doesn't ruin your surefire bet. :lol:
Easy come, easy go... :mrgreen:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:13 am

Boy wonder should go read on the subject of small caliber weapons and ballistic head wounds before spouting off here.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:14 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Boy wonder should go read on the subject of small caliber weapons and ballistic head wounds before spouting off here.
It's not about about the hard-won level of ignorance, it's all about the spouting off.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:20 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Boy wonder should go read on the subject of small caliber weapons and ballistic head wounds before spouting off here.
It's not about about the hard-won level of ignorance, it's all about the spouting off.
We're "new &improved".

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:27 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Boy wonder should go read on the subject of small caliber weapons and ballistic head wounds before spouting off here.
It's not about about the hard-won level of ignorance, it's all about the spouting off.
We're "new &improved".
And like all such things, this, too, shall pass. :lol:
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:54 am

Balmoral95 wrote:If I guess correctly why you posted that, Monty owes me a C-note?

(Promise I won't look at what he said) :lol: :lol: :lol:
montgomery is yapping and barking in this thread now?
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:55 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:If I guess correctly why you posted that, Monty owes me a C-note?

(Promise I won't look at what he said) :lol: :lol: :lol:
montgomery is yapping and barking in this thread now?
I might too sounds interesting.

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Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:05 am

montgomery wrote:
A little unusual that people who have been shot in the head would be screaming? Even those who were missed or received glancing bullet wounds may not be in any condition to scream? However, it's still possilbe, but not all that plausible. It deserves some closer scrutiny before a skeptic would be able to form an opinion. Can you provide any more information that would bolster your story?
While the brain is made up of 3 basic layers there are no pain receptors within it to send signals to itself. There would be no sensation of pain: this is why brain surgery is done while the patient is awake so they can report sensations to do with smell, hearing, sight etc, even emotion.
Awake Brain Surgery. Surgery while you're awake reduces the risk of damaging critical brain areas that control speech and other skills. Awake brain surgery, also called awake craniotomy, is a type of procedure performed on the brain while you are awake and alert. source
Image

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:09 am

VFX wrote:
montgomery wrote:
A little unusual that people who have been shot in the head would be screaming? Even those who were missed or received glancing bullet wounds may not be in any condition to scream? However, it's still possilbe, but not all that plausible. It deserves some closer scrutiny before a skeptic would be able to form an opinion. Can you provide any more information that would bolster your story?
While the brain is made up of 3 basic layers there are no pain receptors within it to send signals to itself. There would be no sensation of pain: this is why brain surgery is done while the patient is awake so they can report sensations to do with smell, hearing, sight etc, even emotion.
Awake Brain Surgery. Surgery while you're awake reduces the risk of damaging critical brain areas that control speech and other skills. Awake brain surgery, also called awake craniotomy, is a type of procedure performed on the brain while you are awake and alert. source
Image
Try re-reading the witness statement. Clue: Who is screaming?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:14 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Try re-reading the witness statement. Clue: Who is screaming?
I do not remember replying to you but to Montgomery on his assertion and suporting this. You may need to bring up that screaming business with him. He can do with the evidence I give him as he wishes; that is his call.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:15 am

ROFL, also, try understanding that the statement was nothing more than a record of a statement made by a German soldier who - according to the statement - was shocked enough by what he'd witnessed that he felt that "the German people should already be trembling in their shoes for the coming retribution" for what was being done to Jews in the East.

The mere existence of this entry, in a diary kept during the war years by a minor German official in a small town near Frankfurt, is problematic for the central claim of the OP in this thread, "The obvioud explanation is, of course, that the Soviets forged the documents," referring to the EG reports (I hope we all know now what EG stands for) in particular and documents on the mass murder in the occupied east in general. But leave it to the Rodoh scholars and fellow trolls to miss the point entirely.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:17 am

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Try re-reading the witness statement. Clue: Who is screaming?
I do not remember replying to you but to Montgomery on his assertion and suporting this. You may need to bring up that screaming business with him. He can do with the evidence I give him as he wishes; that is his call.
So he is your superior?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:19 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
So he is your superior?
This is off the topic thread. Please stick to the topic and not try and derail.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:42 am

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
So he is your superior?
This is off the topic thread. Please stick to the topic and not try and derail.
:nuts:
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:45 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
So he is your superior?
This is off the topic thread. Please stick to the topic and not try and derail.
:nuts:
I feel like I'm interviewing Otto Moll....

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:48 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
I feel like I'm interviewing Otto Moll....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:49 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote: :nuts:
:offtopic:

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:50 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
So he is your superior?
This is off the topic thread. Please stick to the topic and not try and derail.
:nuts:
I feel like I'm interviewing Otto Moll....
He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:52 am

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote: :nuts:
:offtopic:
:senile:
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by VFX » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:54 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
Well any 5th columnist Partisan behind the army had to be dealt with just the same way and the US deal with modern day terrorists. The fact that most of them were Jude is of no concern. Yep they were just thrown in pits to rot. No one is disputing this. They were the terrorists of the day.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:55 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
So he is your superior?
This is off the topic thread. Please stick to the topic and not try and derail.
:nuts:
I feel like I'm interviewing Otto Moll....
He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
Prolly wasn't laughing much either...

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:06 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
Well any 5th columnist Partisan behind the army had to be dealt with just the same way and the US deal with modern day terrorists. The fact that most of them were Jude is of no concern. Yep they were just thrown in pits to rot. No one is disputing this. They were the terrorists of the day.
Did Monty tell you that?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:20 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
Well any 5th columnist Partisan behind the army had to be dealt with just the same way and the US deal with modern day terrorists. The fact that most of them were Jude is of no concern. Yep they were just thrown in pits to rot. No one is disputing this. They were the terrorists of the day.
Did Monty tell you that?
The imbecile thinks Otto Moll was in the occupied USSR with the shooting squads?

And he's clearly not read through the thread he's commenting in, where this crap was refuted time and again, so much so that Monstrous and Mary Q finally gave up.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 10, 2018 3:46 pm

Part 5(2) of Roberto Muehlenkamp’s series at HC: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... 0.html?m=1

No one has even tried to challenge Muehlenkamp’s series.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: He'd at least tell you how the corpses were disposed of, even if he split hairs and tried to convince you his participation didn't make him a party to it.
Well any 5th columnist Partisan behind the army had to be dealt with just the same way and the US deal with modern day terrorists. The fact that most of them were Jude is of no concern. Yep they were just thrown in pits to rot. No one is disputing this. They were the terrorists of the day.
Did Monty tell you that?
The imbecile thinks Otto Moll was in the occupied USSR with the shooting squads?

And he's clearly not read through the thread he's commenting in, where this crap was refuted time and again, so much so that Monstrous and Mary Q finally gave up.
Nothing you present can be judged as credible until you stop the namecalling. You know how you can change that.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Part 5(2) of Roberto Muehlenkamp’s series at HC: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... 0.html?m=1

No one has even tried to challenge Muehlenkamp’s series.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:29 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Part 5(2) of Roberto Muehlenkamp’s series at HC: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... 0.html?m=1

No one has even tried to challenge Muehlenkamp’s series.
He's going to have to reform himself and you are too. You both know how to behave properly.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:55 pm

crickets, embarrassing really for these newbies, afraid of this thread for some reason . . . and because of they cowardice, all this stands without even an attempt to refute it . . .
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"