Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:45 pm

And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:51 pm

Well, if I want to have a go I always have Twitter.

I wouldn’t mind a serious discussion from someone who actually knows something. Montgomery doesn’t qualify in that respect. I suspect he will give it up at some point.

As for me I still have books coming. I have the albatross that is my Stalin biography still hanging around my neck that I’m trying to finish before I have to turn it in. After that I have the book on the Einsatzgruppen that I want to read and then additional books on the Third Reich. There will be stuff coming after that.

Life goes on.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:02 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Well, if I want to have a go I always have Twitter.

I wouldn’t mind a serious discussion from someone who actually knows something. Montgomery doesn’t qualify in that respect. I suspect he will give it up at some point.
He gave up before he started here, my opinion.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:After that I have the book on the Einsatzgruppen that I want to read and then additional books on the Third Reich. There will be stuff coming after that.
Remind me - which EG book? (You've nicely gotten the thread back on topic btw! LOL)
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:06 pm

Hey, I try!!!!
:D

This one:
SS Terror in the East: The Einsatzgruppen on Trial.

I don’t know if it’s any good or not. I am determined to soldier through because of the documents and transcripts.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:11 pm

This one? I think I recall your mentioning it in the Books/Reading thread - and that you owe us a "book report" on it LOL
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 pm

Yes.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:12 pm

I didn’t think you read that one.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:13 pm

Oops, posted while you edited...LOL
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:13 pm

Now my turn to apologize for a simu-edit! LOL
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:13 pm

LOL, right, I haven't read it ... I think I asked you to let us know if it is worth reading ...
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:15 pm

Oh no, not another glitch in the format?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:16 pm

Yes, I do owe a reporr... :D. However some other books took me away.
I intend on reading that once I finish with Stalin and the history of the USSR. I’m going to push the library books back so I can finish “Terror in the East.” I’ll get the library books after that.

I may push them back further if it goes into Christmas due to books I’ll get at that point.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? Or would you say that they are supporters of the holocaust legend?

(My choice of a definition for 'legend': a very old story or set of stories from ancient times, or the stories, not always true, that people tell about a famous event or person.)

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:42 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? Or would you say that they are supporters of the holocaust legend?
I wouldn't say anything like either of your propositions. Both are meaningless.

Still dodging what you were asked about the EGs, I notice.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:40 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? Or would you say that they are supporters of the holocaust legend?
I wouldn't say anything like either of your propositions. Both are meaningless.

Still dodging what you were asked about the EGs, I notice.
Eventually my patience with people like you can come to an end sometimes!

We're not even close to being there yet because I know that your childish performance has to be a losing proposition. And much to your annoyance, I now have a few people considering to rise above it.

What's EG's? Whatever it is I'm sure you're right about me dodging! If I dodge a question then I have a good reason to do so. Let me know on the EG's so I can confirm it or deny it.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:25 am

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? Or would you say that they are supporters of the holocaust legend?
I wouldn't say anything like either of your propositions. Both are meaningless.

Still dodging what you were asked about the EGs, I notice.
Eventually my patience with people like you can come to an end sometimes!
Mine ended with you a long time ago, tough guy.
montgomery wrote:We're not even close to being there yet because I know that your childish performance has to be a losing proposition. And much to your annoyance, I now have a few people considering to rise above it.
You have diddly squat. Except cowardice and dodging.
montgomery wrote:What's EG's?
What's EG's? What's Wannsee? What's SS? What's SD? Or RSHA or WVHA? RuSHA? VoMi? What's IV B 4? What does it matter, really, if we're polite to Nazi apologists - or to trolls and those who ask "what's EGs?"

scrm, montgomery here claimed that this thread "stalemated," which implies that he's read it; he claims an interest in the Holocaust, too; now he asks "What's EG's?" After having decided that the thread reached a stalemate. For real. So I nominate this one, also, for a Stundie . . . I mean, "what's EG's?", FSS.
montgomery wrote:Whatever it is I'm sure you're right about me dodging!
I am. You're pig ignorant about the topic and you've been doing nothing but trolling. You can't defend the claim you made about this thread and you're a coward. Dodging is all you have left.
montgomery wrote:If I dodge a question then I have a good reason to do so.
You do: you're a pig ignorant, cowardly blowhard. I can't think of a better reason for you to dodge questions you've been asked by D-H, Nessie, and me. You won't find those of the ill-mannered ilk here dodging, btw.
montgomery wrote:Let me know on the EG's so I can confirm it or deny it.
You can answer the question or keep dodging. It's your call. If you keep dodging, I will keep pointing it out. That's how it works. It's quite simple.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And I think, perhaps, you're the only one really interested in attracting deniers here. I don't really find them interesting at all, and I've come to appreciate a venue for discussion of what we're reading without the stilted, false dynamics of "debate" with deniers about whether air contains oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? Or would you say that they are supporters of the holocaust legend?
I wouldn't say anything like either of your propositions. Both are meaningless.

Still dodging what you were asked about the EGs, I notice.
Eventually my patience with people like you can come to an end sometimes!
Mine ended with you a long time ago, tough guy.
montgomery wrote:We're not even close to being there yet because I know that your childish performance has to be a losing proposition. And much to your annoyance, I now have a few people considering to rise above it.
You have diddly squat. Except cowardice and dodging.
montgomery wrote:What's EG's?
What's EG's? What's Wannsee? What's SS? What's SD? Or RSHA or WVHA? RuSHA? VoMi? What's IV B 4? What does it matter, really, if we're polite to Nazi apologists - or to trolls and those who ask "what's EGs?"

scrm, montgomery here claimed that this thread "stalemated," which implies that he's read it; he claims an interest in the Holocaust, too; now he asks "What's EG's?" After having decided that the thread reached a stalemate. For real. So I nominate this one, also, for a Stundie . . . I mean, "what's EG's?", FSS.
montgomery wrote:Whatever it is I'm sure you're right about me dodging!
I am. You're pig ignorant about the topic and you've been doing nothing but trolling. You can't defend the claim you made about this thread and you're a coward. Dodging is all you have left.
montgomery wrote:If I dodge a question then I have a good reason to do so.
You do: you're a pig ignorant, cowardly blowhard. I can't think of a better reason for you to dodge questions you've been asked by D-H, Nessie, and me. You won't find those of the ill-mannered ilk here dodging, btw.
montgomery wrote:Let me know on the EG's so I can confirm it or deny it.
You can answer the question or keep dodging. It's your call. If you keep dodging, I will keep pointing it out. That's how it works. It's quite simple.
And so what's EG's?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:00 pm

Read the thread that you've already judged, without having read it.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:09 pm

Good grief.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:14 pm

kind of head-spinning, ain't it?
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:28 pm

It really is. I think the answer is literally glaring at him from the title of this thread.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:31 pm

He struggles with reading, we've seen this a lot: perhaps if he started sounding out the big words?
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Maybe this will help.

E
insatz
g
ruppen
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:39 pm

Ok, but where does the "s" in "EG's" come from?
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:46 pm

Now that has me a little stumped, maybe we need a rational discussion to discover it’s meaning?
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Balmoral95 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ok, but where does the "s" in "EG's" come from?
I think it's code. Zionist in origin by the look of it.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:52 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Now that has me a little stumped, maybe we need a rational discussion to discover it’s meaning?
I detect sarcasm in this reply. I cannot engage in discussion if there is sarcasm. Or irony. Or unpleasantness of any kind.

It's like a court of law: the side with the nicest, most polite lawyers always wins.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Now that has me a little stumped, maybe we need a rational discussion to discover it’s meaning?
I detect sarcasm in this reply. I cannot engage in discussion if there is sarcasm. Or irony. Or unpleasantness of any kind.

It's like a court of law: the side with the nicest, most polite lawyers always wins.
I am deeply sorry, maybe what we need is a rational discussion about the behavior of the members of this forum.
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:08 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Now that has me a little stumped, maybe we need a rational discussion to discover it’s meaning?
I detect sarcasm in this reply. I cannot engage in discussion if there is sarcasm. Or irony. Or unpleasantness of any kind.

It's like a court of law: the side with the nicest, most polite lawyers always wins.
I am deeply sorry, maybe what we need is a rational discussion about the behavior of the members of this forum.
I'd prefer a whimsical one! LOL
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:08 pm

LOL
“I noticed this morning that a group of our Landsberg friends have been given their freedom this morning. These include...Schubert, Jost and Nosske. Schubert confessed to...supervising the execution of about 800 Jews...(referring to the order to clean up Simferopol)...Schubert managed to kill all the Jews (by Christmas 1941). Nosske was the one the other defendants called the biggest bloodhound....
Noel, Noel, what the hell.”
Benjamin Ferencz in a letter to Telford Taylor, December 1951

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:18 pm

LOL...s
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:22 pm

Small things amuse ...............

If you people want to have some fun with the spamming, and if the moderator will tolerate it on this section, then why don't one of you start a thread for 'spamming' specifically? I will be more than happy to get right into it and spam away too. Maybe it will get it out of our systems? Ya think?

Phhhhhtttttt!

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:25 pm

montgomery wrote:.....
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? ....
Of course not. From the initial criminal/military investigations for Nuremberg to the historical investigations that have been carried out over the past 60 or so years to journalists revealing people who have lied about being witnesses, there have been many corrections. Examples are; no mass gassing at Dachau (possibly no gassing at all), the changing of the plaque at Auschwitz reducing the number dead, the uncovering of Joseph Hurt and his false testimony about Mengele.

The deniers can be identified as those who use arguments from ignorance and incredulity to suggest witnesses lied, exaggerated or told impossible stories. Examples are; the use of diesel engines which failed to identify the difference between actual eye witnesses and hearsay testimony, the not enough wood was used in mass pyres claim which failed to understand body fat burns as a fuel and the wick effect, the there was not enough cyanide residue in the gas chambers claim which failed to establish how much there would have been under the conditions described.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:28 pm

In point of fact, your asking - on a Holocaust forum, where you lecture Jeffk and others on the subject and how to address it, and where you declare a long thread on the Einsatzgruppen a "stalemate" - "what's EG's?" is not a small thing at all; it's a way of saying, "I haven't a clue."
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:39 pm

Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:.....
Would you say that those who corrected all the lies, exaggerations, and impossible stories are/were deniers? ....
Of course not. From the initial criminal/military investigations for Nuremberg to the historical investigations that have been carried out over the past 60 or so years to journalists revealing people who have lied about being witnesses, there have been many corrections. Examples are; no mass gassing at Dachau (possibly no gassing at all), the changing of the plaque at Auschwitz reducing the number dead, the uncovering of Joseph Hurt and his false testimony about Mengele.

The deniers can be identified as those who use arguments from ignorance and incredulity to suggest witnesses lied, exaggerated or told impossible stories. Examples are; the use of diesel engines which failed to identify the difference between actual eye witnesses and hearsay testimony, the not enough wood was used in mass pyres claim which failed to understand body fat burns as a fuel and the wick effect, the there was not enough cyanide residue in the gas chambers claim which failed to establish how much there would have been under the conditions described.
Thank you for those frank comments in what appear to be your own words! And so now, with all due respects, what are we supposed to do with that information? I've consistently said that we can't excuse it or just ignore it. Debates in real life don't work that way. It has weight and that's why I've taken the approach of having bobbo, you, or somebody suggest a link for me to read that would pertain to their own issue, then maybe JeffK could produce a link that refutes it.

So honestly and truly, where do we go now? You've made a huge all encompassing statement:
Examples are; no mass gassing at Dachau (possibly no gassing at all),........
In all honesty, it's left me bewildered and wondering what your intent was in saying that, and then, what can I say to that? Am I to now accept that the holocaust did indeed happen, sans the gas chambers?

If my thinking on what you have said has been taken out of context then all I can say is that it wasn't deliberate. I'll wait for your reply.

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:54 pm

montgomery wrote:In all honesty, it's left me bewildered and wondering what your intent was in saying that, and then, what can I say to that? Am I to now accept that the holocaust did indeed happen, sans the gas chambers?
What on earth would lead you to think such a thing, based on what Nessie wrote?
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:59 pm

montgomery wrote: if the moderator will tolerate it on this section, then why don't one of you start a thread for 'spamming' specifically?
It's your one of your main interests, and apparently your one of your few skills, so you go for it.
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:15 pm

Did I miss where montgomery finally discussed the topic of this thread and took up the question he asked was asked about his assertion?
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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by montgomery » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:17 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Did I miss where montgomery finally discussed the topic of this thread and took up the question he asked was asked about his assertion?
Shouldn't you be working on your trolling accusation?

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Re: Monstrous on the Einsatzgruppen

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:20 pm

Shouldn't you be down for your nap?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.