Where are the remains at Birkenau?

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Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Nessie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:32 am

We know where the remains are from the dead at TII, Belzec and Sobibor. So where are they at Birkenau?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:35 pm

/ Maryzilla mode on /

How many Jews were there in the first place? How can you possibly discuss Jewish dead if you don't know how many Jews lived in Europe before and after the war? Have you conducted demographic studies for all of Europe? Besides, what did "Jew" mean - who was a "Jew"? Who defined "Jew" and how? I see you've been careful not even to mention the word "Jew." And if you can't even tell us how "Jew" was defined in any population census, you really don't have any idea at all, do you? And if you can't define "Jew," you can't count Jews and you can't tell us if any are "missing."

You have to define "ausrotten," and you have to understand that under "judicial notice" postwar trials accepted any claims at all and that any witness could make any charge they wanted to. Do you know what "victors' justice" means? Have you even bothered comparing Auschwitz to Roswell? I didn't think so.

If you're trying to say that Jews went to this camp and were killed there, you have to prove how many Jews went there. Then you have to show us original documents and forensic evidence to prove that they were killed there and not put to useful work for a change or being protected from the anger of Germans for what they'd done. You can't just claim they were murdered - or, worse yet, quote a few witnesses to so-called gassings who also claim they saw UFOs.

Where did Jews go after the war? That's really what you're asking. I'd suggest looking in Miami, Tel Aviv, the Lower East Side of New York, Los Angeles, Paris, northern New Jersey, Toronto . . . Jews went where Jews are.

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Balsamo » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:24 pm

:lol:
HUMM...

We really need to get some deniers back on this forum...

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:29 pm

Doing my best . . . LOL
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:28 pm

Balsamo wrote: We really need to get some deniers back on this forum...
I'm actually enjoying a bit of a break from the deniers. Statistical can post more informative posts and that I can simply read. It's actually quite pleasant without them.

However, they will be back.... where else can they go?

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Balsamo » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:06 am

Maybe,

But if we all turn on the "denier mode", it is not all that healthy neither...
Or it could be fun...like a screenplay...Nessie playing Freddy, StatMec playing Mary...
Who is going to play David?
I keep Hannover's role for myself...

the Tide is turning...

:lol:

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:22 am

Balsamo wrote:Maybe,

But if we all turn on the "denier mode", it is not all that healthy neither...
Or it could be fun...like a screenplay...Nessie playing Freddy, StatMec playing Mary...
Who is going to play David?
I keep Hannover's role for myself...

the Tide is turning...

:lol:
LOL
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Nessie » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:33 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Balsamo wrote: We really need to get some deniers back on this forum...
I'm actually enjoying a bit of a break from the deniers. Statistical can post more informative posts and that I can simply read. It's actually quite pleasant without them.

However, they will be back.... where else can they go?
I am also enjoying the break, but since I tend to ignore David and Mary, I am more enjoying not seeing you go off one!!

On a serious note, we know where the ash and bones are at TII, Belzec and Sobibor at those respective camps. Each is also memorialised. So where are the ash and bone remains at Birkenau?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:10 pm

Balsamo wrote: Who is going to play David?
Matthew's Screen Test to play "David the holocaust denier"

"You slithering typical believers and your baby bonfire inspired lies. I am the real skeptic. You should be handing Eric Hunt, President Amadinejad, Bradley Smith and Frederick Berg medals, for pulling apart your snake pit of lies as you blindly follow Soviet Jewish propaganda. The duplicitous, tap-dancing, Sturdy Colls and her mindless ankle-licking Jewish-horde-lackeys, are simply doing what Moscow tells them to say. I know, as the President of Iran told me that.

AND I have been to Treblinka and it is only four feet by two feet wide, so the holocaust never happened! YOU TYPICAL BELIEVERS !!!!!!"



Do I get the part? I can do a couple roles if required
:D

Matthew's Screen Test to play "Mary Q Contrary"
"I'm just asking you, why you can't explain to me, why I don't know, that you know, what I don't know, which is what you know I don't know and you know that! It's that simple."

"Well as the war ended in 1946, all those people in Warsaw the capital of Germany, did have helicopters and local bus services to travel where they wanted to go. You can't tell me that you have checked all the helicopter records? Where are they? Show me or admit you are lying."
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:21 pm

Nessie wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Balsamo wrote: We really need to get some deniers back on this forum...
I'm actually enjoying a bit of a break from the deniers. Statistical can post more informative posts and that I can simply read. It's actually quite pleasant without them.

However, they will be back.... where else can they go?
I am also enjoying the break, but since I tend to ignore David and Mary, I am more enjoying not seeing you go off one!!

On a serious note, we know where the ash and bones are at TII, Belzec and Sobibor at those respective camps. Each is also memorialised. So where are the ash and bone remains at Birkenau?
I guess nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:45 pm

Mary Q Contrary, the holocaust denier wrote: I guess nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
What does the museum say on its website, Mary, about the "ash ponds"? Do you know what a museum is?
ashpitmarkers.jpg
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:48 pm

Nessie wrote:We know where the remains are from the dead at TII, Belzec and Sobibor. So where are they at Birkenau?
I did some research and found the answer for you: What does the museum say on its website, Nessie, about the "ash ponds"? Do you know what a museum is?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Balsamo » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:57 pm

Hi Nessie,

I am not an Auschwitz speciallist, i am affraid, but indeed, i don't remember this point being addressed beyond the capacity of krematorium...

As a matter of fact, 1000.000 people killed, means at least 2 or 3 thousands tons of ashes and bones to dispose of. Given the duration of the operation, it does not seem an impossible task to do, especially if there was a river nearby...or huge fields around.
Birkenau enjoyed two things the small camps- like treblinka - didn't:
better cremation system
Huge available space...
Maybe check if there was a river nearby...as i think...
Maybe there is a link with those stories about Jews being used as fertilizer...

Anyway getting rid of some ashes mixes with bones in those circumstances is not a big deal...a big hole would be enough...maybe that is why the issue has never been really raised before...
But i admit being one of those who are complaining for the lack of real and full scale archeological research.

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Balsamo » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:59 pm

Sorry Mathew...did not take care of your post while sending mine which was pending...
Glad to see you back, Mary...Statmec was getting lonely...

EDIT:
So Ash Pond ? Is that it?
Any research made on them?

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Xcalibur » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:17 am

Balsamo wrote:Sorry Mathew...did not take care of your post while sending mine which was pending...
Glad to see you back, Mary...Statmec was getting lonely...

EDIT:
So Ash Pond ? Is that it?
Any research made on them?

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschw ... -pits.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:29 am

{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor taken from Mary's buffoonery, meant that
nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
Just like with Majdanek . . . so here we go again, noting that Mary never learns.

It should also be noted that we've seen Mary go silent in topic after topic in the HD subforum so she can focus on her idiotic witness game in the UFO forums. Dodges noted . . .

Nessie, thanks for your patience, even if Mary's a little jumpy, this is not an area in which I've done significant study, so let's just start with this and begin picking at it, adding detail, etc. Focusing on the nearly 1 million Jews murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau . . . what I am posting fits well with Balsamo's reasoning:

DENTAL METALS. On the basis of a Himmler order (23 September 1940), dental gold was already being removed from the mouths of the corpses of inmates dying in KLs - in this manner, gold for dental work of SS members was accumulated. With the initial transports bringing Jews to Birkenau for murder in 1942, Office IV B 4 (Eichmann) forward to the Auschwitz command Himmler’s dentail-gold-removal order. On 19 October 1943 a WVHA order directed that henceforth such dental gold be delivered from KLs to the Reichsbank. These practices were followed also in Birkenau. The dental metals were removed from the corpses of Jews killed in the gas chambers before their corpses were incinerated in the crematoria. The Birkenau crematoria had rooms for the melting down of gold, platinum, and silver teeth. The later diversion of these dental metals to the Reichsbank was due to an oversupply to the SS resulting as of fall 1942. Teeth were extracted from corpses by “dentists” who worked as part of the Birkenau Sonderkommando, In mid-1944 40 prisoners worked as “dentists.” The dental metal was melted into bars in the SS-Revier at Auschwitz and packed into crates. Partial records on quantities of this metal exist.

HAIR. The hair of prisoners who were registered into Auschwitz was shorn at the time of their entry to the camp. In August 1942 the WVHA ordered that KL commands see that hair shorn from prisoners thenceforth be collected to “be reprocessed into felt for industrial use and spun into thread,” with the intent that “combed and cut women’s hair will be made into felt socks for submarine crews and felt hose for the railways.” By early 1943 the KLs but not Auschwitz were directed to send cut hair to the following companies: Alex Filzfabrik AG, Paul Riemann, and Färberei AG; it is possible that Auschwitz received separate, individual instructions about what to do with hair. Data have been found for hair cut from Majadnek inmates but, again, not those of Auschwitz. As to victims of mass gassings, unlike at the Einsatz Reinhard camps, at Birkenau hair was shorn from the corpses of murdered females; the collection of hair from gassed females was apparently on Himmler’s order. Hair shorn in the crematoria was dried in lofts of those structures, a task carried out by the chimney detail of the Sonderkommando. SS inspections of the dried hair were conducted. On 6 February 1943 Pohl reported to Himmler that from Majdanek and Auschwitz 3000 kilograms of “Frauenhaare” had been sent to the Economics Ministry. After the war 7000 kilograms (over 7 tons) of hair were found in warehouses in the camp (this was estimated to be hair shorn from about 140,000 people). Post-war tests were conducted on samples of this hair at the Forensic Institute of Crakow and found to have detectable amounts of prussic acid, as did objects (clips, pins, etc) found with the hair. Teppichfabrik G. Schoeffler AG, a firm near Oswiecim, was discovered to have 1,950 kilograms of hair also at the war’s end. A sample of this hair was analyzed by the Forensic Medical Department of Jagiellonian University; the hair had measurable quantities of prussic acid. It is believed that hair from Auschwitz was also sent Haaverwertungbetrieb and Bremer Wolkämmerei (Greek coins were in the bags that brought this hair to the factory). Felt, thread, haircloth, socks and hose for submarine crews, bomb fuses, hawsers and ropes for ships, and mattresses are thought to have been manufactured from the Auschwitz hair.

BONES AND ASHES. At Birkenau there were crematoria for the incineration of corpses - as well as pits for corpse burning when the capacity was required. Initially, the bodies of those gassed in the so-called little white and little red houses were buried nearby; starting fall 1942, following a visit by Himmler that summer and with assistance from Blobel, the camp SS began to exhume and cremate the corpses of these victims, burning over 100,000 corpses by the end of November. The work was executed by Sonderkommano members and the ashes were distributed into the Sola and Vistula rivers - “dropped into the river current at various points so that they would not accumulate.” (Bunker 2 - the little white house - was pressed back into service, and renamed Bunker 5, during May 1944 for the Hungarian action and new cremation pits dug at that time. For the Hungarian action, several pits were also dug near Crematoria 5, under Möll’s direction, for open-air burning to help with the large volume of dead during 1944; the famous open-pit cremation photo taken by Sonderkommando members - David Szmulewski and Stanislaw Jankowski - was from this area.) In the crematoria, quantities of bone remained after cremation. This material was collected and ground using mallets and special mortars (sledgehammers and a steel plate for the bone that was in Möll’s Crematoria 5 cremation pits). The ash/bone remains were stored temporarily in pits near each crematorium, later to be removed and discarded in various ways (ash remaining in these pits was covered over before evacuation of the camp): “buried in pits, dumped into the waters of the Sola and Vistula rivers and the fish ponds near the Birkenau camp, used to fill in low ground and marches, and spread as fertilizer on the farms belonging to the camp. . . . [H]uman remains were also used in building and repairing the roads in camp, for making walkways near the houses where the staff lived, and as insulating material in various camp buildings.” According to Höss, the intent was to disperse the evidence. Some crushed bone was sold to “Strem,” a company that delivered the remains to the Rendziny factory for use in fertilizer production. Fat from the corpses burnt in the open air was used to feed the fire in the corpse burning pits (this process was also credited to Möll). A small number of corpses was provided to SS doctors for experimentation. In fall 1944, in the vicinity of the bunkers, the “ashes were removed from the pits and the whole site was levelled.” Nevertheless, in 1965 a geological study of the area was conducted, and 303 bore holes dug - “Human ashes, bones and hair were found in 42 of the holes.”

Summarized from Chapter XII in Auschwitz: 1940-1945, vol. II, published by the Auschwitz Museum; data provided by Höss and taken from WVHA reports is provided on pp 416-418, addressing quantities and the disposition of hair and dental metals. Also pp 134-175, Vol. III; Strzelecki, The Evacuation, Dismantling, and Liberation of KL Auschwitz,, pp 51-57, 111-118, 229-232; Pressac, Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, pp 165, 179-180, 253, 389, 420, 422-424; Dwork & van Pelt, Auschwitz, pp 313-353
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor ........
That's all it was. Mary is just trolling now. The poor thing doesn't have anywhere else to go!

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor ........
That's all it was. Mary is just trolling now. The poor thing doesn't have anywhere else to go!
LOL, what a poor, lost soul. It sounds as if Mary's got nothing to reply to your post except to engage in her unfunny brand of, er, humor?

I see that I referenced the geologic study, with bore holes drilled, that Xcalibur linked to . . . thanks Xcalibur!
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:12 pm

Maryzilla is working on a reply, honestly. But she's busy right now. She will get to this in due time. Patience, people, patience.

For about 3 weeks, Mary's been buckled down working through Eric Hunt's request, which I've asked her about several times, like here, "to get as much new information about where did the Warsaw Jews go from July 22nd - September 21st 1942, specifically individuals talking about being transited during this time period ANYWHERE and surviving." If you don't know anything about Warsaw ghetto in 1942, this is a hard thing to do. So, please, let the genius work without rushing her.

Here Maryzilla was asked to explain her claim that Josef Kramer's testimony about the gas chamber at Natzweiler was "Shiite." No answer for two weeks. This one's easy, but Mary must be so busy with Warsaw that she's not gotten to it.

Natzweiler got Mary pretty worked up, in all the excitement it appears, as can be seen here, that she forgot to tell Jeff what she thinks wrong with Kramer's explanation for his changing story about the gas chamber.

Here's the 4th of four long posts using the historical method to understand the gas chamber at Natzweiler-Struthof: Mayzilla, who lectures the forum on the historical method, has yet to tell us why in the case of Natzweiler she prefers making {!#%@} up to using evidence.

And here Maryzilla was found ignoring another request to tell us where Jews from across Europe went during WWII.

Having announced that Holocaust scholars fail to use the historical method properly, Mary was asked a few times, as she was in this post, to demonstrate this failure by examining for us a number of important works on the Holocaust: busy with UFO sightings, Mary's not replied. And here is the first time Mary dodged this request.

Maryzilla has been claiming that evidence for the Holocaust is reducible to the sort of evidence given for UFOs - that is, eyewitnesses without convergent evidence of other types: here Maryzilla was reminded of the many other types of evidence we have for the Holocaust - asked specific questions about the parallels she claims this evidence has with UFO evidence (e.g., she apparently has perpetrator testimonies for UFOs) - and requested to explain is she really dumb about all this or just trolling. No reply. Yet here's where Maryzilla bothered to lie about scrmbldggs and Matthew Ellard's views on the range of evidence we have for the Holocaust, writing that "They know that eyewitnesses are all we have for both," something neither has claimed or demonstrated.

In this post Maryzilla was reminded that she'd tried switching Nessie's question about evidence for TII's being a transit/resettlement camp around to discussion of evidence for gas chambers at the camp: Jeff asked Mary a specific, related question: "As for you "Mary", what do you think the purpose was for TII?" Mary's not replied.

Finally, here is where I reminded Maryzilla that she'd failed to reply to Nick and me on her Weberian witterings on judicial notice at Nuremberg - and specifically on Treblinka and Dachau but more generally for the IMT as a whole. Instead of replying to posts that rubbished her claims, Maryzilla got huffy about what she does in the UFO forums. So . . . no reply.

Mary's in-box is jammed, folks, and Mary's simply too busy - replying to topics she's abandoned, lying about what members of the forum post and say, and working up answers to requests she's not replied to - to deal with our Birkenau posts now. Give hear a break. Ok? In the meantime, we can count on Maryzilla to let us all know else if she finds our replies to Nessie's questions - or anyone else's - to be taking too long. It's what Mary does best and, truth be told, spends her miserable existence doing: troll.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:26 pm

Perhaps she's too busy with other probing... questions.
.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:35 pm

Balsamo wrote:Sorry Mathew...did not take care of your post while sending mine which was pending...
Glad to see you back, Mary...Statmec was getting lonely...
I was never gone. I just have other things to do during the day. Also, this topic just isn't nearly as much fun now that I know the gas chambers were real.
EDIT:
So Ash Pond ? Is that it?
Yes, that's it. Eyewitnesses said that's where they were dumped. What else do you want?
Any research made on them?
Yes, extensive research has been conducted. Forensic archeologists have recently excavated four black rectangular structures near the pond, each one representing a million martyred victims. The water in the pond was tested for mineral concentrations consistent with having absorbed millions of pounds of human ash. The tests came up negative, proving that the Nazis successfully destroyed the evidence. The bottom of the pond has not been tested for doing so would violate Halachic proscriptions against bothering dead people. Besides, there's no need for scientific testing. We know what happened.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor taken from Mary's buffoonery, meant that
nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
Just like with Majdanek . . . so here we go again, noting that Mary never learns.
Thank you! I knew there was another time Nessie asked a question and you bozos ignored it until I stepped it. But I couldn't remember what it was.
It should also be noted that we've seen Mary go silent in topic after topic in the HD subforum so she can focus on her idiotic witness game in the UFO forums. Dodges noted . . .

Nessie, thanks for your patience, even if Mary's a little jumpy, this is not an area in which I've done significant study, so let's just start with this and begin picking at it, adding detail, etc. Focusing on the nearly 1 million Jews murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau . . . what I am posting fits well with Balsamo's reasoning:

DENTAL METALS. On the basis of a Himmler order (23 September 1940), dental gold was already being removed from the mouths of the corpses of inmates dying in KLs - in this manner, gold for dental work of SS members was accumulated. With the initial transports bringing Jews to Birkenau for murder in 1942, Office IV B 4 (Eichmann) forward to the Auschwitz command Himmler’s dentail-gold-removal order. On 19 October 1943 a WVHA order directed that henceforth such dental gold be delivered from KLs to the Reichsbank. These practices were followed also in Birkenau. The dental metals were removed from the corpses of Jews killed in the gas chambers before their corpses were incinerated in the crematoria. The Birkenau crematoria had rooms for the melting down of gold, platinum, and silver teeth. The later diversion of these dental metals to the Reichsbank was due to an oversupply to the SS resulting as of fall 1942. Teeth were extracted from corpses by “dentists” who worked as part of the Birkenau Sonderkommando, In mid-1944 40 prisoners worked as “dentists.” The dental metal was melted into bars in the SS-Revier at Auschwitz and packed into crates. Partial records on quantities of this metal exist.

HAIR. The hair of prisoners who were registered into Auschwitz was shorn at the time of their entry to the camp. In August 1942 the WVHA ordered that KL commands see that hair shorn from prisoners thenceforth be collected to “be reprocessed into felt for industrial use and spun into thread,” with the intent that “combed and cut women’s hair will be made into felt socks for submarine crews and felt hose for the railways.” By early 1943 the KLs but not Auschwitz were directed to send cut hair to the following companies: Alex Filzfabrik AG, Paul Riemann, and Färberei AG; it is possible that Auschwitz received separate, individual instructions about what to do with hair. Data have been found for hair cut from Majadnek inmates but, again, not those of Auschwitz. As to victims of mass gassings, unlike at the Einsatz Reinhard camps, at Birkenau hair was shorn from the corpses of murdered females; the collection of hair from gassed females was apparently on Himmler’s order. Hair shorn in the crematoria was dried in lofts of those structures, a task carried out by the chimney detail of the Sonderkommando. SS inspections of the dried hair were conducted. On 6 February 1943 Pohl reported to Himmler that from Majdanek and Auschwitz 3000 kilograms of “Frauenhaare” had been sent to the Economics Ministry. After the war 7000 kilograms (over 7 tons) of hair were found in warehouses in the camp (this was estimated to be hair shorn from about 140,000 people). Post-war tests were conducted on samples of this hair at the Forensic Institute of Crakow and found to have detectable amounts of prussic acid, as did objects (clips, pins, etc) found with the hair. Teppichfabrik G. Schoeffler AG, a firm near Oswiecim, was discovered to have 1,950 kilograms of hair also at the war’s end. A sample of this hair was analyzed by the Forensic Medical Department of Jagiellonian University; the hair had measurable quantities of prussic acid. It is believed that hair from Auschwitz was also sent Haaverwertungbetrieb and Bremer Wolkämmerei (Greek coins were in the bags that brought this hair to the factory). Felt, thread, haircloth, socks and hose for submarine crews, bomb fuses, hawsers and ropes for ships, and mattresses are thought to have been manufactured from the Auschwitz hair.

BONES AND ASHES. At Birkenau there were crematoria for the incineration of corpses - as well as pits for corpse burning when the capacity was required. Initially, the bodies of those gassed in the so-called little white and little red houses were buried nearby; starting fall 1942, following a visit by Himmler that summer and with assistance from Blobel, the camp SS began to exhume and cremate the corpses of these victims, burning over 100,000 corpses by the end of November. The work was executed by Sonderkommano members and the ashes were distributed into the Sola and Vistula rivers - “dropped into the river current at various points so that they would not accumulate.” (Bunker 2 - the little white house - was pressed back into service, and renamed Bunker 5, during May 1944 for the Hungarian action and new cremation pits dug at that time. For the Hungarian action, several pits were also dug near Crematoria 5, under Möll’s direction, for open-air burning to help with the large volume of dead during 1944; the famous open-pit cremation photo taken by Sonderkommando members - David Szmulewski and Stanislaw Jankowski - was from this area.) In the crematoria, quantities of bone remained after cremation. This material was collected and ground using mallets and special mortars (sledgehammers and a steel plate for the bone that was in Möll’s Crematoria 5 cremation pits). The ash/bone remains were stored temporarily in pits near each crematorium, later to be removed and discarded in various ways (ash remaining in these pits was covered over before evacuation of the camp): “buried in pits, dumped into the waters of the Sola and Vistula rivers and the fish ponds near the Birkenau camp, used to fill in low ground and marches, and spread as fertilizer on the farms belonging to the camp. . . . [H]uman remains were also used in building and repairing the roads in camp, for making walkways near the houses where the staff lived, and as insulating material in various camp buildings.” According to Höss, the intent was to disperse the evidence. Some crushed bone was sold to “Strem,” a company that delivered the remains to the Rendziny factory for use in fertilizer production. Fat from the corpses burnt in the open air was used to feed the fire in the corpse burning pits (this process was also credited to Möll). A small number of corpses was provided to SS doctors for experimentation. In fall 1944, in the vicinity of the bunkers, the “ashes were removed from the pits and the whole site was levelled.” Nevertheless, in 1965 a geological study of the area was conducted, and 303 bore holes dug - “Human ashes, bones and hair were found in 42 of the holes.”

Summarized from Chapter XII in Auschwitz: 1940-1945, vol. II, published by the Auschwitz Museum; data provided by Höss and taken from WVHA reports is provided on pp 416-418, addressing quantities and the disposition of hair and dental metals. Also pp 134-175, Vol. III; Strzelecki, The Evacuation, Dismantling, and Liberation of KL Auschwitz,, pp 51-57, 111-118, 229-232; Pressac, Auschwitz: The Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, pp 165, 179-180, 253, 389, 420, 422-424; Dwork & van Pelt, Auschwitz, pp 313-353
You still didn't answer the question.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:45 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor taken from Mary's buffoonery, meant that
nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
Just like with Majdanek . . . so here we go again, noting that Mary never learns.
Thank you! I knew there was another time Nessie asked a question and you bozos ignored it until I stepped it. But I couldn't remember what it was.
Didn't work out so well for you that time, either. I'm beginning to think that when Nessie asks a question, we get to see you make an idiot of yourself - as with Majdanek and here, chiding people for not answering promptly, or as with the Transit thread, stumbling around spouting lots of stuff, but not an answer to the question you've been asked.

Mary, you can count on me, so don't fuss in the future: if I have something to reply, I'll do so, on my schedule, not yours.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:You still didn't answer the question.
Sure I did. I'm tired of quoting stuff so that you {!#%@} don't get to wriggle out of things, and, FSS, the answer is quoted in your post, so I'll pass this time . . . If you mean I didn't provide dimensions, photographs, movies of the operations, that is true. But I answered the question. Of course, you may mean that I didn't claim that ashes of "millions" of the victims were disposed of in a small pond - I didn't. Because that's not what those who've looked into this question think was the case.

How you coming with the many questions, topics, points you've been dodging?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:52 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I was never gone. I just have other things to do during the day. Also, this topic just isn't nearly as much fun . . .
Mary, this comment's totally redundant: we already know. There's no need to tell us. It's obvious that you don't think much or read much about Holocaust-related topics. Painfully so.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:56 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:{!#%@}, Mary {!#%@} up again and assumed that a slight delay in a reply, and a bit of humor taken from Mary's buffoonery, meant that
nobody knows the answer or they all feel it's one of those questions that shouldn't be asked.
Just like with Majdanek . . . so here we go again, noting that Mary never learns.
Thank you! I knew there was another time Nessie asked a question and you bozos ignored it until I stepped it. But I couldn't remember what it was.
Didn't work out so well for you that time, either.
It worked out great for me both times. I got you guys focused on the question that was asked.
I'm beginning to think that when Nessie asks a question, we get to see you make an idiot of yourself - as with Majdanek and here, chiding people for not answering promptly, or as with the Transit thread, stumbling around spouting lots of stuff, but not an answer to the question you've been asked.
Nessie doesn't ask me questions. He asks the group questions.
Mary, you can count on me, so don't fuss in the future: if I have something to reply, I'll do so, on my schedule, not yours.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:You still didn't answer the question.
Sure I did. I'm tired of quoting stuff so that you {!#%@} don't get to wriggle out of things, and, FSS, the answer is quoted in your post, so I'll pass this time . . . If you mean I didn't provide dimensions, photographs, movies of the operations, that is true. But I answered the question. Of course, you may mean that I didn't claim that ashes of "millions" of the victims were disposed of in a small pond - I didn't. Because that's not what those who've looked into this question think was the case.
No you didn't claim that the ashes of millions were dumped into small ponds. Matthew Ellard did and I guess that answer is good enough for him. Your answer was the nonspecific "they scattered the ashes here and there, dumped them into rivers and ponds, fertilized some farms, paved some roads, mixed the blood with tequila on Margarita Mondays, etc."

Somebody as familiar with the topic as Nessie should know the non-specific non-answer that you gave. I thought he was looking for more detail. But if your answer is good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
How you coming with the many questions, topics, points you've been dodging?
Non-specific answers are good enough for the Holocaust but if you have questions you want me to answer you'll need to be more specific.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:26 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:It worked out great for me both times. I got you guys focused on the question that was asked.
No, you didn't - not either time. I anyway replied when I wanted to, no sooner, no later. Please don't start growing delusions of adequacy on us. You're so lost here it is actually sad. Jesus, posts can sit for a couple days whilst people focus on other things - apparently, posts asking you questions can sit for months without even acknowledgment whilst you try coming up with excuses for not replying.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
I'm beginning to think that when Nessie asks a question, we get to see you make an idiot of yourself - as with Majdanek and here, chiding people for not answering promptly, or as with the Transit thread, stumbling around spouting lots of stuff, but not an answer to the question you've been asked.
Nessie doesn't ask me questions. He asks the group questions.
Right, like I said, "I'm beginning to think that when Nessie asks a question, we get to see you make an idiot of yourself . . ." When you get overly defensive, you make a fool of yourself. Like now.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Sure I did. I'm tired of quoting stuff so that you {!#%@} don't get to wriggle out of things, and, FSS, the answer is quoted in your post, so I'll pass this time . . . If you mean I didn't provide dimensions, photographs, movies of the operations, that is true. But I answered the question. Of course, you may mean that I didn't claim that ashes of "millions" of the victims were disposed of in a small pond - I didn't. Because that's not what those who've looked into this question think was the case.
No you didn't claim that the ashes of millions were dumped into small ponds. Matthew Ellard did . . .
So what? Fact is I replied that the ashes and bones were not in a single location - and that's what people who've studied Auschwitz more than I've studied that camp have documented.

Is it really the case that all you've got is whining, carping, and complaining? Well, that's all you share.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Your answer was the nonspecific "they scattered the ashes here and there, dumped them into rivers and ponds, fertilized some farms, paved some roads, mixed the blood with tequila on Margarita Mondays, etc."
Guess again: I explained where dental metals and hair went, I explained where ashes and bone went - along with some of the background and history - and invited further discussion to get more detail and specificity. I didn't post photos or give coordinates, but I answered the question, which, come to think of it, you didn't even try to answer. As usual, you didn't bother explaining "the errors" in the sources I summarized - I guess you figure one of your obligatory attempts at a sophomoric quip is an answer.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Somebody as familiar with the topic as Nessie should know the non-specific non-answer that you gave. I thought he was looking for more detail. But if your answer is good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
I've got no idea how much Nessie knows about this - Nessie didn't tell us. If Nessie wants to get more specific, well, here we all are, and Nessie can follow up on what I wrote - "let's just start with this and begin picking at it, adding detail, etc." - and what others replied. You're awfully twitchy.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:if you have questions you want me to answer you'll need to be more specific.
Dodge noted. The chicken squawks. Everyone reading this subforum is watching the chicken squawk and dodge.

In any event, I'd love you to start with Warsaw - answering Eric Hunt's question about where so many of the ghetto's Jews went in 1942. This post gave you plenty to get you started. Weeks ago. Coward.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:38 pm

Mary Q Contrary. the holocaust denier wrote:.Thank you! I knew there was another time Nessie asked a question and you bozos ignored it until I stepped it. But I couldn't remember what it was.
Nessie : "Does Mary even know where Poland is?"
Mary, the holocaust denier : "I haven't got a clue. It's near Europe, isn't it?"

:D

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:43 pm

Mary Q Contrary, the holocaust denier wrote:.... if you have questions you want me to answer you'll need to be more specific.
Name one book you have ever read on the holocaust?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:36 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary, the holocaust denier wrote:.... if you have questions you want me to answer you'll need to be more specific.
Name one book you have ever read on the holocaust?
Mary seems to be having trouble finding anything to say about the history of the camp. Or any of the replies to Nessie. Nor is she able to come up with anything meaningful on the other topics she's been asked about. What a useless bore.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:26 pm

She's probably working hard on compiling her responses.

Or... maybe Mary's insistence in looking for answers is based purely on Mary's desire to handwave them away. Or to offer a snide comment and/or some ridicule aimed at those she loves to hate most.


Perhaps hoping her skills will impress her Alien Overlords from Dodge City.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:42 pm

Certainly more interesting to us than Mary's pathetic game of he said/she said - and very pertinent to what Nessie asked - is the defense which Moll offered at Nuremberg: Moll insisted, counter to the charge that he'd supervised the gassing process at Birkenau, that he'd only commanded the work involved with disposal of the corpses and, in the case of the bunkers, the eventual digging up and incinerating of the victims' corpses, as I mentioned when I didn't answer Nessie:
First, I was used in work in connection with the excavation of the mass graves. Hoess must know that. He is in error if he said that I worked in the buildings where the gassing was carried out. At first I was used for the excavation of the mass graves and he must remember that. Hoess, do you remember Swosten, Blank, Omen, Hatford and Garduck [sic]? Those are the people who worked in the building at the time when you alleged I worked there and I was working on excavations. Surely Hoess remembers that. . . . I was responsible to see that the corpses were burned after the people were killed. I was never responsible for the actual supervision of the killing. It was always the officers or the physicians who were present at the time. As my commandant, at the time, Hoess should be able to confirm this.
This was Moll's defense in his own words - he hadn't killed, he'd merely buried, excavated, cremated some 10s of 1000s of victims' corpses.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Nessie » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:26 pm

Mary has made one good point in this thread, which is that I do not ask her questions. Otherwise the answers I have been given have been great, thanks.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by ryu238 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:13 pm

I should point out that Mary made some points, first people were to busy mocking deniers instead of well... giving an answer. It should've been, answers first, then mocking. However, you did give specific answers in that the ashes were placed in more than one location. which Mary of course ignored but still. And she forgets that there are multiple ash beds, not just one, so she is lying her ass off here. second I have a question of my own. Were the ashash beds themselves located with ashes. I did hear that tests were made on the nearby river, and bone was found. Do you have access to these tests.
Also how would you handle the claims here: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011 ... -birkenau/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
& here: http://server2.trutube.tv/files/photos/ ... 7c95_l.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (personally I think the answer is that it's like the unknown soldier tomb)

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:16 am

ryu238 wrote:I should point out that Mary made some points, first people were to busy mocking deniers instead of well... giving an answer. It should've been, answers first, then mocking. However, you did give specific answers in that the ashes were placed in more than one location. which Mary of course ignored but still. And she forgets that there are multiple ash beds, not just one, so she is lying her ass off here. second I have a question of my own. Were the ashash beds themselves located with ashes. I did hear that tests were made on the nearby river, and bone was found. Do you have access to these tests.
Also how would you handle the claims here: https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011 ... -birkenau/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
& here: http://server2.trutube.tv/files/photos/ ... 7c95_l.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (personally I think the answer is that it's like the unknown soldier tomb)
If you read this thread instead of lying about reading it you would know that the claims made in those two links have been handled by the answers to Nessie questions. Nessie asked where the remains at Birkenau are located. The answer, which you ignore, is that the ashes were scattered here and there. Why in the world would you want access to tests made on the nearby river? Do you have any reason to believe that tests were not made on the nearby river?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by ryu238 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:57 pm

OK...can I have an answer that isn't from a trolling Holocast denier. Because I did mention that they did answer both you and Nessie, I just wanna double check things.

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:42 pm

ryu238 wrote:OK...can I have an answer that isn't from a trolling Holocast denier. Because I did mention that they did answer both you and Nessie, I just wanna double check things.
You said that Nessie's question about where the remains at Birkenau are located was specifically answered: they were placed in more than one location. What claims found on those two websites you linked to are not handled by this answer? Someone asks what happened to roughly 7,000,000 pounds of crushed bone (cremains) generated while Auschwitz was in operation and you're told that it was dumped in more than one location--ponds and rivers. What is there to double check?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:49 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:...roughly 7,000,000 pounds of crushed bone (cremains) generated while Auschwitz was in operation...
How did you arrive at that number?
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by ryu238 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:55 am

...that's a good question, how did she that number?
Also Mary, stop trolling like the denier you are.

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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:21 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:...roughly 7,000,000 pounds of crushed bone (cremains) generated while Auschwitz was in operation...
How did you arrive at that number?
Seven pounds per person.
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Re: Where are the remains at Birkenau?

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:36 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:...roughly 7,000,000 pounds of crushed bone (cremains) generated while Auschwitz was in operation...
How did you arrive at that number?
Seven pounds per person.
Why?
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