Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:49 am

David wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
You are full of {!#%@}.

Draw your route.
My my Mr. D-H, you are as dumb as you are vulgar.
It would help you understand the operation of Majdanek if you looked
at the plans and the buildings as built.
I will repeat that I don't have a ''route" that arriving prisoners used to to get to
Buildings 41 and 42.
However these two buildings seem to be the entrance point for arriving prisoners.
Their design, along with the fumigation facilities and the storage buildings 43 and 44
make a complete and well thought out facility.

SM's insistence that "I draw my route" is a straw man."



David is your IQ the number of times we have requested you to draw your route? Searching "draw route" shows a figure of 13, and that's lower then Forrest Gump.

How about you read the thread considering Donat clearly said that they went down the highway, not your vague back enterance through the city which you cannot even prove was used. Your source for Lublin station says they marched the prisoners north which means toward the highway.

You argue that there was 2 enterances even though all the of witnesses whom describe entering again from the highway that we have shown you say they entered from the southern end.

So in the end it's looking like you cannot understand Majdanek or what a strawman is. Thanks for continuing to not tell us your illusive prison route in an attempt to act intelligent.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:01 am

David, reading your posts here, I ask myself how you can make so many wrong or false statements. I can only conclude you're lazy and a liar.
David wrote: The room is labeled Ankleideraum or "dressing room."
No, it is not. What room are you talking about? On what document is the southern undressing room labeled "Ankliederaum"? I know what you think, but I was not discussing the March 1942 blueprint when I replied to a point TLB made about the Polish-Soviet Commission report. The investigators from that commission in 1945 drew a schematic and inventoried the rooms. TLB claimed in his video that the report says that there was an undressing room only to the north of the bathhouses, and that this proves the flow was north to south. But he is wrong, the investigators described a room south of the showers as an undressing room. (“The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .” - Graf & Mattogno, p 122) IIRC TLB has since admitted that mistake, along with the one he made about the awning. Re-read the material on this from what I've written (for the umpteenth time).
David wrote:The final step in the disinfection process was having people put clean clothes back on.
SM.
Another of the litany of errors you keep making. Prisoners did not put "clothes back on." They left their clothes behind, to be fumigated and then re-worked/recycled. At the bathhouse, the prisoners were given striped uniforms or old clothes with paint marking them. That's what they dressed in. They did not put clothes "back on" - they were issued clothes from the camp's store of clothing. (It is clear that you haven't studied the arrival process or listened to/read prisoner or guard testimonies.)
David wrote:Undressing room is Auskleideraum. There is even a room for "dirty clothes" next to the undressing room, labeled Kleiderannahme.
The plan shows the Auskleideraum at the north end of the building next to the Registration room
(Anmeldung) and entrance Eingang shortened to Eing

SM, you have made a fool out of yourself with your nasty accusations of TLB.
Sorry, David. The Polish-Soviet Commission report is explicit that there's an undressing room south of the showers; I quoted it in several posts over the past year or so and just above in this post. I am not referring to the March 1942 plan for what became building 42 but rather to the Polish-Soviet Commission report, which is the same document which TLB was referring to when he made his erroneous claim about the undressing rooms. Have you even watched TLB's video? Did you read this?

The only fool here is you as you're now proving yourself unable to follow the discussion, exposing that you probably aren't even familiar with TLB's claims or my criticisms of them, mixing up different documents, and describing a non-existent "dressing" scenario.
David wrote:The steps in registering new arrivals were Registration and deposit of valuables
You are learning, slowly. Indeed, prisoners were registered if they were to be admitted to the camp and, whether or not they were to be admitted to the camp, their valuables were surrendered. But these two steps took place generally in the Effektenkammer, to the south of the bathhouses, not in the bathhouses. This fact alone destroys Hunt's claimed route and shows his marked aerial photos to be just plain wrong. I've quoted both prisoner and guard testimony about this process - and you've given us nothing but your unsupported opinion.
David wrote:showers, disinfection bath
Above you wrote,
David wrote:Wouldn't the disinfection bath be priorto the shower?
Which sequence is it - showers first, then bath - or bath first, then showers? How do you know? What does TLB claim? I don't think you know what TLB claimed or about any of the evidence about this sequence.
David wrote:The plans and the construction based on the plans all make sense.
But "the plans" don't match the barracks as "constructed" and found in 1945 and described by witnesses, a problem you just keep ignoring.
David wrote:Please just Watch Eric Hunt's video for a detailed photographic scan of the plans.
Not going to re-watch that junk. Time for you to respond to what we've asked you, starting with drawing the prisoners' entry path on these two maps:

Image

Image[/quote]
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:03 am

Denying-History wrote:You are full of {!#%@}.
This is what it pretty much boils down to.

He can't even follow what TLB has claimed!
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:04 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?
Am I? Quote what I have said about exiting the bathhouses.

Get busy.
Considering that you don't know the difference between an Ankleideraum
and an Auskleideraum I am not sure what goofy theory you will come up with.

Do you want to tell us?

Actually, you can't tell the difference between the March 1942 blueprint drawn by the Germans and the report of 1945 made by the Polish-Soviet Commission! And you have no clue what TLB has said about them. You've proven this in your past few posts. LOL.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:25 am

David wrote:My my Mr. D-H, you are as dumb as you are vulgar.
It would help you understand the operation of Majdanek if you looked at the plans and the buildings as built.
D-H understands all this. You don't. Otherwise your posts wouldn't be filled with errors and misunderstandings and lies.
David wrote:I will repeat that I don't have a ''route" that arriving prisoners used to to get to Buildings 41 and 42.
But now you are telling a baldfaced lie. You can "repeat" whatever you wish but months ago you wrote:
David wrote:It would help if you had visited the Camp.

Admission Procedures- The Revisionist View
Prisoners entered the camp from the West.(usually from the Lublin Train Station), walked along the road to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings 41 and 42.
And you added later:
David wrote:Do you agree with me that most incoming prisoners arrived at the Western side of the Camp, went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the Camp, just north of building 41 and 42?
No one here can read your mind to figure out what you mean by "entered "from the West," "walked along the road," “the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings,” "arrived at the Western side of the camp," and "went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp." We can understand "Lublin Train Station," and you're wrong that the station was the usual place where prisoners arrived in Lublin.

First, we don't agree with you that your words correctly describe the usual entry route.

Second, since what you've written is vague and doesn't make sense, we want you to draw on a map showing (a) where the prisoners typically arrived in Lublin, (b) what road they took to reach the Majdanek camp, (c) from what direction they entered the Majdanek camp, (d) where they went after entering the camp grounds, (e) where they were first taken, and (f) where they went next and so on.

Again, your description is wrong - but it is also not precise. We want to know precisely what you think. You know what we want, but you don't want to be pinned down and you probably now realize what you have claimed is silly.
David wrote:However these two buildings seem to be the entrance point for arriving prisoners.
And then we aren't interested in what "seems to be" but in evidence for what you claim.
David wrote:Their design, along with the fumigation facilities and the storage buildings 43 and 44 make a complete and well thought out facility.
Repeating an error (or lie) won't make it come true.
David wrote:SM's insistence that "I draw my route" is a straw man."
It is not my "insistence," it's the consensus of everyone commenting in this thread and trying to figure out what you claim.

You can choose to show us what the above quoted claims mean by marking the maps below. Or you can choose to keep playing games and dodging. If you keep playing games and dodging, everyone will know you're a liar and a coward. Your choice.

I've posted the maps again, to help you should you opt to get yourself out of your predicament. Draw for us how prisoners usually arrived in Lublin, walked along the road, arrived at the Western side of the camp, entered the camp from the west, went to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings, and went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp:

Image

Image[/quote]
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Please just look at the German Plans

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:53 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:David, reading your posts here, I ask myself how you can make so many wrong or false statements. I can only conclude you're lazy and a liar.
David wrote: The room is labeled Ankleideraum or "dressing room."
No, it is not. What room are you talking about?

[snip long drivel]

Talk about lazy, SM. All you have to do is look at the German Plans for buildings 41 and 42
shown on the video starting a minute 37.
Hunt does an excellent job of showing the German plans and walking through the existing building showing
that the Building was built according to the plans.

I suggest that you look at the evidence offered rather than insult people.

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The Soviet Commission v. the actual Plan

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:05 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Actually, you can't tell the difference between the March 1942 blueprint drawn by the Germans and the report of 1945 made by the Polish-Soviet Commission! And you have no clue what TLB has said about them. You've proven this in your past few posts. LOL.
So I get this straight, you would rely more on the Polish-Soviet Commission "Report"
than on the actual German plans from 1942 that were used to build Buildings 41 and 42?

That is the basis for the difference of opinion between us.
I suggest you look at the actual plans and not rely on just the Polish-Soviet report (or worry about
TLB so much)


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Look at the German Plans

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:18 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:Their design, along with the fumigation facilities and the storage buildings 43 and 44 make a complete and well thought out facility.
Repeating an error (or lie) won't make it come true.
You need to look at the copy of the actual German plans.
Then you need to understand that Buildings 41 and 42 were built according to the plans.
Then you need o understand that the plans were for a specific use building. The use being registering
and saving the lives of incoming detainees.
You may have other "evidence" from the Soviet Report but I am talking about the actual plans, the
actual Buildings 41, 42, the actual clothing fumigation structure, and the two storage buildings.

Your claim based on the Soviet report that there was a southern undressing room on the German plans is incorrect.


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Re: Please just look at the German Plans

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:24 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:David, reading your posts here, I ask myself how you can make so many wrong or false statements. I can only conclude you're lazy and a liar.
David wrote: The room is labeled Ankleideraum or "dressing room."
No, it is not. What room are you talking about?

[snip long drivel]

Talk about lazy, SM. All you have to do is look at the German Plans for buildings 41 and 42
What part of this do you not understand?
I was not discussing the March 1942 blueprint when I replied to a point TLB made about the Polish-Soviet Commission report.
Not the March 1942 blueprint, but the Polish-Soviet Commission report. Why would I look at a March 1942 German plan to find out what's on a Polish-Soviet Commission report from 1945?!?!??!?!
David wrote:shown on the video starting a minute 37.
Sigh, one more time: that is not what I was responding to when I answered TLB's claim about what the Polish-Soviet Commission report said.

Are you playing dumb - or are you dumb?
David wrote:Hunt does an excellent job of showing the German plans and walking through the existing building showing
that the Building was built according to the plans.
Hunt completely bollixes it up - BUT I WAS ANSWERING SOMETHING TLB SAID ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!
David wrote:I suggest that you look at the evidence offered rather than insult people.
I suggest you re-read what I posted for you and re-watch TLB's video. Then you might be able to figure out what I was referring to. Right now, you are lost.
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Re: The Soviet Commission v. the actual Plan

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:37 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Actually, you can't tell the difference between the March 1942 blueprint drawn by the Germans and the report of 1945 made by the Polish-Soviet Commission! And you have no clue what TLB has said about them. You've proven this in your past few posts. LOL.
So I get this straight, you would rely more on the Polish-Soviet Commission "Report" than on the actual German plans from 1942 that were used to build Buildings 41 and 42?
Let me help by being even more explicit, because you are incredibly obtuse and need extra help. In this post, from August 2015, I replied as follows to a claim TLB made about the Polish-Soviet Commission report, not the March 1942 blueprint. I began my reply by re-stating what TLB had claimed, the 2nd claim in his video:
Claim 2. the Polish-Soviet report stating that the undressing room was on northerly end of barrack no 42. . .
Then I explained why TLB's claim is wrong:
The Polish-Soviet report, on the other hand, lists an “Undressing Room” in both barrack 41 and 42 to the south of the shower room (e.g., as to barrack no. 42 “The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .” - Graf & Mattogno, p 122), a detail which the narrator preferred keeping to himself, as it undermines his entire argument about the flow of prisoners and his selective use of the commission report to “prove” his case. An “Undressing Room” to the south of the shower room, of course, implies a south to north flow of prisoners.
That's the point. Read this over and over until you grasp it.

I was not making a statement about which evidence I "rely more on" but rather answering a specific claim made by TLB and showing it to be false.

(And, no, I would not "rely" only on a blueprint from March 1942 for a building to understand buildings built at a different location and used at later dates. Please do not misinterpret or misstate this: I would not rely only on the March blueprint to understand the bathhouses.)
David wrote:That is the basis for the difference of opinion between us.
No it isn't.

You lied about the entry route into the camp, you refuse to spell out what you claim about the entry route, you're clueless about how prisoners were processed in the economics sector, you falsified the route they took to get to the bathhouses, you refer to very little evidence and you mischaracterize what you do refer to, you don't even understand the video TLB made or my reply to it, and much more.

The basis for differences here is your ignorance, your reading comprehension challenges, and your dishonesty.
David wrote:I suggest you look at the actual plans and not rely on just the Polish-Soviet report (or worry about TLB so much)
As you well know, I've studied the plans in depth - and the construction history insofar as we have documents and narratives about it, how the buildings were used, what prisoners and perpetrators say about this, what was found at the site on liberation, and what's there today. So, no, this isn't about the March 1942 plans - it's about my reply to a false claim made by TLB, a claim you defended when he made it but now don't want us to "worry" much about! LOL, you can run but you can't hide.

Now, if you want to agree with me that TLB was wrong and dishonest in what he claimed in his video, just say so and that will be the end of that.

In the meantime, get to work:

You can choose to show us what the above quoted claims mean by marking the maps below. Or you can choose to keep playing games and dodging. If you keep playing games and dodging, everyone will know you're a liar and a coward. Your choice.

I've posted the maps again, to help you should you opt to get yourself out of your predicament. Draw for us how prisoners usually arrived in Lublin, walked along the road, arrived at the Western side of the camp, entered the camp from the west, went to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings, and went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp:

Image

Image
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Re: Look at the German Plans

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:46 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:Their design, along with the fumigation facilities and the storage buildings 43 and 44 make a complete and well thought out facility.
Repeating an error (or lie) won't make it come true.
You need to look at the copy of the actual German plans.
Then you need to understand that Buildings 41 and 42 were built according to the plans.
Then you need o understand that the plans were for a specific use building. The use being registering
and saving the lives of incoming detainees.
You may have other "evidence" from the Soviet Report but I am talking about the actual plans, the
actual Buildings 41, 42, the actual clothing fumigation structure, and the two storage buildings.

Your claim based on the Soviet report that there was a southern undressing room on the German plans is incorrect.

David, if you'd like to take a break, I have questions in these threads I'd like answers to:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27177

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27369

Up to you, of course.
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Re: Look at the German Plans

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:48 pm

David wrote:You need to look at the copy of the actual German plans.
What is present at the site today, what was present when the camp was liberated, and what prisoners and SS men described there doesn't match the March 1942 plan. Until you deal with these points, you are just making noise.
David wrote:Then you need to understand that Buildings 41 and 42 were built according to the plans.
Show us the plan, for starters, according to which building 41 was built and explain how it matches that plan.
David wrote:Then you need o understand that the plans were for a specific use building. The use being registering
and saving the lives of incoming detainees.
More noise.
David wrote:You may have other "evidence" from the Soviet Report but I am talking about the actual plans, the
actual Buildings 41, 42, the actual clothing fumigation structure, and the two storage buildings.
No, you're not. You're talking about a plan in March 1942 for a single building at a different location and not what was built at the bathhouse-bunker site.

Prove that what was built at the bathhouse-bunker site matches the March 1942 plan. Demonstrate it, don't keep repeating a claim without showing evidence for it. A March 1942 plan for a building at a different location is not proof of what was constructed and used at this site.
David wrote:Your claim based on the Soviet report that there was a southern undressing room on the German plans is incorrect.
David, I never said that "based on the Soviet report . . . there was a southern undressing room on the German plans." The southern dressing room is in the Polish-Soviet Commission report. That report matches the building that was constructed, not the plans.

Here again is what the Polish-Soviet Commission report said as to barrack no. 42: “The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .”

Again, please stop lying about what D-H and I have written. Knock it off. Not only does it show you to be full of it, but it requires us to type out long and repetitious posts. It's boring.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Look at the German Plans

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:50 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:David, if you'd like to take a break, I have questions in these threads I'd like answers to:
Hey, he's dodged what D-H and I have asked him here! LOL Like so:

You can choose to show us what the above quoted claims mean by marking the maps below. Or you can choose to keep playing games and dodging. If you keep playing games and dodging, everyone will know you're a liar and a coward. Your choice.

I've posted the maps again, to help you should you opt to get yourself out of your predicament. Draw for us how prisoners usually arrived in Lublin, walked along the road, arrived at the Western side of the camp, entered the camp from the west, went to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings, and went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp:

Image

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:02 pm

I am not replying to anything David posts in this thread unless/until he clarifies the prisoner arrival-entry route as requested and re-requested.

I suggest that D-H and scrmbldggs and others join in this. The thread has become repetitious and tedious because David fails to understand points the first 20 times they're made, lies about what's been said, is confused beyond belief, and is determined to avoid explaining himself.

Bye bye David.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:27 pm

I will post but I refuse to reply to David further.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:36 pm

That's what I meant, yes, discussion based on evidence, with support for our arguments, amongst those willing to discuss in this manner, bring it on. Until David agrees to this simple approach, I'm not replying to him further.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:21 pm

continued from here:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:From David? :lol:
Uh........hell no!!!!
:lol:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Truth be told, when the thread started - started with Nessie "buying" Hunt's video - I had read just a bit on the Majdanek. I found it hard to believe that anyone would take Hunt seriously so I just began asking Nessie to defend what Hunt claimed. His/her failures to be able to do so got me more and more interested, so by now I've read a fair amount - 8-10 books I am guessing and a number of articles, 150-200 witness statement (from snippets to long testimonies - about 100 of these related in some way to gassing), many documents and reports, several camp guides - and I've also watched a lot of video and studied various websites. Nessie tried using an inductive or logical method, which led to all sorts of problems because the logic used the Germans was different to what Nessie thought it should be. David tries to feign knowledge about the camp - but I now know enough to see through his claims and spot errors quickly, and to know right where to go to disprove his BS.
I've learned a lot from reading what you, scrmbldggs and D-H wrote. There just isn't a lot on Majdanek on its own, Wachsman talks about it in KL, it pops up in a few other places. I know there are a couple of books on it so I'll be looking into getting those.
It's odd, the Soviets captured it practically intact in 1944 so there has to be a decent amount of information about it. I'd expect more to be written about it. From everything I've read I know it was never really completed, it never held that many prisoners (compared to Auschwitz) and it functioned much like a collection point for the Reinhard Camps.
The camp had a number of purposes, and those purposes changed over time. It was not designed or constructed in the first place for extermination of Jews. It had unique connections to Einsatz Reinhard and even a unique "governance," among the WVHA camps but also with ties to Globocnik and his murder, property, and workshop operations. The Jewish extermination at Majdanek ramped up in late fall 1942 as Bełzec ramped down. And, depending on whose estimates you go by something like 15,000-17,000, tops 20,000-ish people perished in the gas chambers at Majdanek. Vs. Birkenau or Treblinka or even Chełmno.

One factor, besides scale, compared to Auschwitz, is the virtually complete wiping out of the camp's Jewish inmates in Erntefest. Erntefest focused on the Lublin district and was not really paralleled elsewhere. Jewish survivors tend to have been in the camp, therefore, briefly before having been sent to a Radom camp, Auschwitz, or somewhere else. Unlike Auschwitz, in line with the virtually complete destruction of the camp's Jews, nearly every member of the SK was killed at Majdanek. When the camp was captured by the Red Army, the gas chambers apparently hadn't been used for 9 months or so. Many of the testimonies are thus from Polish or other prisoners, which creates quandaries for anyone wishing to go on about Lewish Jiars.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:41 pm

Responding to a subsequent post in the Hoax thread: The Polish-Soviet Commission report is heavily excerpted in Graf & Mattogno (PDF available online) as are numerous other documents. I highly recommend Elissa Mäilander's book, which, while focusing on the Aufserherinnen, gives a good history of the camp and a strong feel for its character and operations. Kranz's book is indispensable; I ordered mine from the museum, along with many other publications (the mail charge probably exceeds the prices of their books; the museum staff will answer questions readily and with solid information). To place Majdanek properly in context, Silberklang's Gates of Tears and other material on Lublin district are crucial. Some of the older books have very useful information but need to be read against more recent research. Deniers with their GC fixation narrow the scope of what can be learned about the camp, if you focus on engaging with them. Especially Polish prisoners in the camp had an underground organization and ties to the Polish underground and local (Catholic) relief and assistance groups.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:57 pm

Marszalek Says 20,000 Jews were gassed but I am not sure how he worked this out. I suspect it is based on the 25% calculation provided by Judge Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz.

Based on Judge Zdzislaws estimate 90,000 people were gassed. This number is heavily inflated.

Based on Kranz estimate with Zdzislaws 25% calculation we get 15,000 Jews gassed. So I am not really sure if this calculation works or if it is just a coincidence. I know it's a figure you have calculated before SM.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:21 pm

Definitely an area where more work is needed by researchers with access to the necessary documents.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:25 pm

I agree.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:So what I am being told here is that above is misleading. The gas chambers killed those who worked at the camps and USHMM is the most accurate of all the sources, but it is not sure of itself.
Indeed. And worse in some cases than misleading: flat out wrong. Some glaring differences to the latest stuff I've read:
- Wiki - ixnay to the tank engine ixnay; misleading to say that the camp was refurbished as a killing center in March 1942 - see Silberklang's comments on deportations during spring 1942 and Kranz's time line (gas chambers built August-September 1942); also Kranz clearly states that there was fencing around the bunker, so I'd say the jury is at least out on that
- Nizkor - appallingly bad IMHO, confusing the influence of Globocnik to mean that the camp was part of AR and like BST - it wasn't similar to the BST camps; Majdanek was never transformed into a single-purpose death camp (nor was Belzec originally a labor camp to my knowledge, there was a separate labor camp near Belzec . . . ?); unlike Belzec, Majdanek had significant industrial and manufacturing operations - including subcamps and "sister" camps; the detail on killing methods is way off; it was estimated that 1.5 million were killed at Majdanek - but that estimate was quickly rejected . . .
- USHMM - not objectionable but way cursory; as we've seen, there's detail (Kranz) about how the Jews were treated on arrival and during their time at Majdanek during fall 1942 that the author should have used (unless s/he disagrees with Kranz . . . )
- HEART - description of bunker complex ok, not sure though how the roof served as effective camouflage, detail about gate and trucks comes from same source as Kranz I'd guess or from Kranz's book

As I've said, these sorts of educational websites, while useful at some general level, need to be taken with a grain of salt. USHMM, I find, is pretty much ok but very high level. Reading these bits - and thanks for collecting and posting the snippets - I would guess that the writers are not specialists in the narrow area of these entries - and that they rely on a hodge-podge of older source books. Just my supposition. The Nizkor entry is an embarrassment!
I sort of ran across this post and I thought it would be good to point out DachauKZ. The writing is pretty (if not very) accurate to the current story for Majdanek.

http://dachaukz.blogspot.com/2014/05/ma ... -part.html

I would argue that it should be a read by anyone who does not plan to buy books on Majdanek or KL. It's a shame we didn't have it when Nessie was still posting here about the death tolls. Cause Part 8 covers it pretty well. (At least it uses Kranz Figures.)

And it sort of demonizes the figures used by the USHMM.
A twist in the research on the death toll of the concentration camp Lublin came in 1992, as Czeslaw Rajca presented new figures, by the number of those subtracted from the total amount of prisoners who were released or were transferred to other camps. He came to the conclusion that approximately 235,000 people died in Majdanek, including 110,000 Jews and 123,000 non-Jewish prisoners, mainly Poles. It should be emphasized that these findings are estimates only that can not be confirmed by archived material.
Should also be a note that Czeslaw Rajca in a way refused to use archival Materials arguing that the records were not complete.

I would agree the USHMM is accurate... but it doesn't help when they do not manage their own website to keep everything up to date. (Pretty much what you pointed out in the post I am responding to.)

Nizkor sadly isn't a very good resource for Majdanek... Their page really is only useful for its photographs. Otherwise one really can only find the Communique of the Polish-Soviet Extraordinary Commission Report (which they post twice) and a quote from the Encyclopedia of the Third Reich.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:08 pm

Herbert Stolpman posts on FG's blog on occasion.

He is an elderly German gentleman who, if I remember correctly, worked for the US Army at Dachau after the war.

He is not a Holocaust denier (as far as I can tell) and Carolyn Yeager loathes him. As far as I'm concerned that alone makes him OK in my book.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

Groening:
“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:39 pm

Agree re the Dachau KZ website, very useful overview and good information
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Re: Look at the German Plans

Post by David » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:You need to look at the copy of the actual German plans.
What is present at the site today, what was present when the camp was liberated, and what prisoners and SS men described there doesn't match the March 1942 plan. Until you deal with these points, you are just making noise.
.

The Plans show the intent of the Germans at the Time they were Drawn- March 1942 I am not saying anything more.

The Building42 plans are specifically drawn for a building only useful for saving lives of arriving inmates. Each and every room is part
of a step-by-step registration, hair cutting, undressing, showering, de-lousing, redressing plan.
The plans show that there was no intent to create a homicidal gas chamber...as of March 1942.

The construction of the Buildings 41 42 shows the intent of the Germans at the Time they were Built- November (?) 1942
But more bad news (for Believers) and good news for normal people.
Eric Hunt carefully films a walk through the building from the entrance/registration rooms, through each of the existing rooms of the Building 42
and out the exit. He carefully shows the Plan with each room.
Each room is built according to the Plan. This means that the building was built according the the non-homicidal plans.
You have to watch the video for 37 minutes on to see the each of the rooms...

Just like at Auschwitz
It is worth noting that Pressac realized that Kremas I-V at Auschwitz were not designed as homicidal gas chambers.
He felt that late in the construction (mainly in early 1943) changes were made to adapt the building for homicidal use.

Drop the Strawman BS
I am not sure why you Believer goofs are going on regarding "draw a route" of how people got into Majdanek Camp.
The only issue is that Buildings 41 an 42 were the entrance buildings. The evidence of the actual plan and the actual
construction shows only that Buildings 41 and 42 were built without any homicidal intent


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Re: Look at the German Plans

Post by David » Thu Sep 29, 2016 4:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:You need to look at the copy of the actual German plans.
What is present at the site today, what was present when the camp was liberated, and what prisoners and SS men described there doesn't match the March 1942 plan. Until you deal with these points, you are just making noise.
.

The Plans show the intent of the Germans at the Time they were Drawn- March 1942 I am not saying anything more.

The Building42 plans are specifically drawn for a building only useful for saving lives of arriving inmates. Each and every room is part
of a step-by-step registration, hair cutting, undressing, showering, de-lousing, redressing plan.
The plans show that there was no intent to create a homicidal gas chamber...as of March 1942.

The construction of the Buildings 41 42 shows the intent of the Germans at the Time they were Built- November (?) 1942
But more bad news (for Believers) and good news for normal people.
Eric Hunt carefully films a walk through the building from the entrance/registration rooms, through each of the existing rooms of the Building 42
and out the exit. He carefully shows the Plan with each room.
Each room is built according to the Plan. This means that the building was built according the the non-homicidal plans.
You have to watch the video for 37 minutes on to see the each of the rooms...

Just like at Auschwitz
It is worth noting that Pressac realized that Kremas I-V at Auschwitz were not designed as homicidal gas chambers.
He felt that late in the construction (mainly in early 1943) changes were made to adapt the buildings for homicidal use.

Drop the Strawman BS
I am not sure why you Believer goofs are going on regarding "draw a route" of how people got into Majdanek Camp.
The only issue is that Buildings 41 an 42 were the entrance buildings. The evidence of the actual plan and the actual
construction shows only that Buildings 41 and 42 were built without any homicidal intent


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:11 am

:hmm: Ya know, David, saying/posting something twice in a row doesn't make any of it any truer than it already isn't...

Did you submit your drawing yet?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Thu Sep 29, 2016 10:56 am

Lol he most likely hasn't started. I like his claim that Pressac said 4 & 5 were created as morgues even the Gas openings show up on the blueprints.

This aside, is there anything we need to cover?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:49 am

Denying-History wrote:Lol he most likely hasn't started. I like his claim that Pressac said 4 & 5 were created as morgues even the Gas openings show up on the blueprints.

This aside, is there anything we need to cover?
I don't know because I didn't read his post. I'm not replying and not reading what he posts until he does what you requested . . .

Anyway, we can feel confident that he repeated himself. Because that's what he does. We can also feel confident that he addressed none of the arguments against his repetitions, because he hasn't and can't. I wouldn't even be surprised if he's still arguing the opposite of what TLB said without realizing it! :mrgreen: David's refusal to reply to what's been posted and to explain his unsupported claims make debate with him impossible - we just end up repeating ourselves. The only way to move forward is to focus on a few of his points and get him to explain them. There's always ignore if you refuses to carry on a discussion about Majdanek. So . . .

David, you can choose to show us what the above quoted claims* mean by marking the maps below. Or you can choose to keep playing games and dodging. If you keep playing games and dodging, everyone will know you're a liar and a coward. Your choice.

I've posted the maps again, to help you should you opt to get yourself out of your predicament. Draw for us how prisoners usually arrived in Lublin, walked along the road, arrived at the Western side of the camp, entered the camp from the west, went to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings, and went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp:

Image

Image

------------

* As posted above:
David wrote:Admission Procedures- The Revisionist View
Prisoners entered the camp from the West.(usually from the Lublin Train Station), walked along the road to the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings 41 and 42.
And you added later:
David wrote:Do you agree with me that most incoming prisoners arrived at the Western side of the Camp, went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the Camp, just north of building 41 and 42?
No one here can read your mind to figure out what you mean by "entered "from the West," "walked along the road," “the open air selection area next to the two bath/delousing buildings,” "arrived at the Western side of the camp," and "went into the open field in the north-western quadrant of the camp." We can understand "Lublin Train Station," and you're wrong that the station was the usual place where prisoners arrived in Lublin.

First, we don't agree with you that your words correctly describe the usual entry route.

Second, since what you've written is vague and doesn't make sense, we want you to draw on a map showing (a) where the prisoners typically arrived in Lublin, (b) what road they took to reach the Majdanek camp, (c) from what direction they entered the Majdanek camp, (d) where they went after entering the camp grounds, (e) where they were first taken, and (f) where they went next and so on.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:09 pm

Has anyone else noticed that lately David's been double posting quite a bit? I'm guessing he's terribly rattled.

I am putting him on ignore now. Someone let me know if he finally responds to either D-H's request that he draw his entry/arrival route or to the 5 questions I asked him over a year ago, deal?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:13 pm

Yeah I have noticed that. I am not sure why, but it doesn't seem a big deal.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:33 pm

Denying-History wrote:Yeah I have noticed that. I am not sure why, but it doesn't seem a big deal.
Seems flustered to me. His recent posts are especially dumb, too.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Yeah I have noticed that. I am not sure why, but it doesn't seem a big deal.
Seems flustered to me. His recent posts are especially dumb, too.
It's still isn't as stupid as Jims argument that 6 million Jews didn't exist... Or Jims other argument that there wasn't 6 million Jews in Germany in 1939 and therefore 6 million could not have died.

This aside, Yad Vashem uploaded the photograph of the gas cylinders form Majdanek. This was on the back of the photograph.

Image
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:11 pm

Recall that in this thread a denier has claimed that registration and surrender of valuables at Majdanek took place in the bathhouses, not in the Effektenkammer before prisoners went to the bathhouse. The only support for this routine was deniers’ “logic”:
Obviously the Germans were concerned with keeping the Camp disease free. Maybe the Germans did not always enforce the rules but the admission procedures were well defined.
This incredulity that prisoners went to the Effektenkammer before being bathed and showered, not based on review of evidence, is a silly variation on the “orderly Nazi” fallacy. I replied to the fallacy in detail and with evidence from Majdanek (here, here, and here). I also have referred to prisoner-arrival processing practices in other camps that were generally similar to those used at Majdanek.

Here are some examples from other camps to support what I wrote earlier about general practices across KLs:

Max Mannheimer, witness recollection in Dachau Review, vol 1, 1988, pp 68-69, describing arriving to Birkenau, 1 February 1943:
We remain standing in front of a hut for ten minutes. Then we’re let in. From the transport of one thousand men, women, children only 155 men were chosen for work. Several prisoners sit at tables. Money and valuables are to be handed over. For anything concealed there are severe punishments. . . . The names are registered. I ask whether I should keep the identity card. The answer is no. We will get new ones. We come into the open. Then another hut. In a room we take off our clothes. We keep only shoes and belt. All our hair is cut off. And shaved off. Because of lice. We are sprayed with Cuprex, for disinfection. Come into a very warm room. Laid out in steps. Like a sauna. We’re naked and are glad of the warmth. We look outlandish. Comical. Bald heads, a belt around the bare middle and we have shoes on. . . . With blows from cudgels we are driven into an ice-cold room under showers. Ice-cold water. . . . There are no towels. Instead clothing Unfamiliar clothing. Civilian clothing with broad red stripe on the back of the jacket, a stripe on each pant leg. Looks like old paint.
Note that Mannheimer describes first registration and valuables surrender in a hut; then being moved to an open area; then enternig building for disinfection, followed by shower; then Issuance of prison clothes (details like the prisoners’ being naked but keeping belts are repeated in a number of Majdanek testimonies).

But Auschwitz, of course, had many unique elements. For comparison’s sake, here is a description of the arrival process at Mauthausen, which was built before the war, in contrast to Majdanek. These excerpts come from a composite of prisoner accounts given by prisoners arriving at Mauthausen in 1940, from David Wingeate Pike’s Spaniards in the Holocaust: Mauthausen, the horror on the Danube, p 22 explains that it would become the routine for an arriving prisoner, after being marched with his fellows in fives from the train station to Mauthausen, first to
pass[…] through the Effektenkammer on his way to the disinfection room and the quarantine block. The SS would sit behind a long row of tables, with prisoners serving as their assistants. At the table the incoming prisoners would surrender his identity cards, then at the next his money; then his ring, watch, medals, and other valuables; then the rest of the contents of his pockets, including letters and pictures, then the contents of his bags; then his clothes and shoes. . . . He had reached the end of the line, naked and bereft of everything. Next came the Scheerraum. . . . Then the showers, with the Kapos as well as the SS on hand to administer the first breaking-in. . . . The water would alternate from scalding to freezing. . . . After this he would enter the quarantine block.
Note here that, as at Majdanek, according to Pike the process had variations (see pp 44-48, where Pike describes the enormous shower room to which prisoners were taken after having passed through the Effektenkammer as well as the bathing and disinfection solutions). The process used at Mauthausen was not identical to that at Auschwitz or Majdanek but roughly similar (even down to details like being marched in ranks of 5, alternating hot/cold water in the showers, and outdoor waiting areas). Again, the Mauthausen process is entirely contrary to denier “logic” of the germ-free” camps maintained “orderly Nazi” and the claim that registration supposedly was in the bathhouse to ensure hygiene: Pike’s summary of Mauthausen evidence shows rather that prisoners undressed and registered in the Effektenkammer first - then showered in a separate area.

IIRC at Dachau and Buchenwald, camps also constructed before the war, incoming prisoners went first directly to the political section (Gestapo) for registration, and received abuse when they gathered there (Saxon salute, etc) for registration, then they went for hair-cutting, disinfection, showering, and prison uniforms. E.g., at Buchenwald Bronislaw Szeja and Teodor Miklasinski reported on the reception of Polish prisoners in 1939: they entered through the camp gate, went to tables at reception (were struck while approaching) - and “Then it was off to the bath,” after which prisoners had to wait outside and naked for issuance of clothing. (The Buchenwald Report, p 275) (OTOH Czech prisoners reported that on their arrival to the camp they did not register until after disinfection, which was contrary to the experience of most prisoners, see The Buchenwald Report, pp 44-47, 287) By 1944 SS physicians became involved at this stage to select prisoners for subcamps as they came into the main camp.

Again, despite variations in some details of the procedures, the usual sequence was for prisoners to register before disinfection.

Interestingly, at Buchenwald, prisoner-witnesses reported, “Disinfection was . . . an iron necessity. It was gradually not set up by the SS . . .” (The Buchenwald Report, p 66)

How well does Majdanek’s process line up with the arrival routines at other KLs?

Here’s some of what I presented previously in this thread:
Former inmate Alexander Donat described being brought first to the Effektenkammer and then entering directly into the bathhouse just after exiting the Effektenkammer to its south – without mentioning walking around it under the canopy roof to the north. Contrary to denier claims about where prisoners were processed, often, as Donat described, they were taken first to the Effektenkammer, not to the bathhouses; it was after processing in the Effektenkammer that arriving prisoners were taken to one of the bathhouses just north of the Effektenkammer (or to the “Rosengarten” west of the bathhouses).
And:
Another testimony paralleling Donat’s is that of Andrzej Stanisławski (I’ll return to this testimony fragment in a post explaining how BRoI confused himself about the shower room in the bathhouse): “They herded us out into the frost. From in front of the Effektenkammer we rushed naked and barefoot through the biting frost to a barracks with a sign reading ‘Bad’ or bathhouse.” This description has these prisoners coming into to the bathhouses from the south, not from the north.
And another
prisoner testimony . . . describes roughly the same entry route during 1943 as Donat – from Effektenkammer right to a nearby barrack. This is testimony of a Polish prisoner Jerzy Kwiatkowski: “Along come several SS men whose ranks I cannot recognize, and they order us into an empty barracks. There we must undress quickly and hold all our valuables and clothing in our arms. That’s the order. We stand there naked and wait. The double gates of the stable-type barracks are wide open, and we get goose bumps. . . . Finally they order us to go to the showers in groups of one hundred. Naked and barefoot we run across the frozen ground to an adjacent building, about a hundred meters away. In the cold cloakroom sit several barbers. . . .”
And:
Still another prisoner testimony describing how prisoners were taken to the Effektenkammer barrack (in this case called the “Effektenabteilung”) was given by the unnamed Slovakian Jew quoted in the testimonies collected by Rajca and Wiśniewska.
And:
Further confirmation that prisoners were often taken to the Effektenkammer comes from the testimony of SS-Obersturmführer Friedrich Ruppert, head of the camp’s technical section from September 1942 through spring 1944: “Each prisoner went to the property barracks where all his baggage, underwear, and clothing were taken away,” along with valuables (Wiśnioch, Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings, p 22).
And:
Leon Sobol, Warsaw, entered May 1943, testimony on selection of Jewish prisoners on entry to camp (Banach, Grudzińska, & Lenarczyck, The Prisoners of Majdanek, p 37): “When we arrived there, they took us to the field surrounded with barbed wires in the first place. There we were instructed to strip naked and rush to the clothes warehouse across the street. . . . At the exit of the warehouse there were five SS men standing in a line at the door, who stopped us for inspection to see whether we hadn’t hidden anything, they peered into our mouths, ears, between the legs, even into the anus. . . . The SS men herded us with whips to the second building, which turned out to be a bathhouse.”
As is clear, the general flow used at other KLs - first surrender of valuables and registration, then disinfection and showering in a room or building for this purpose - was also common practice at Majdanek. Denier logic is undone by the evidence, again.

edits: my spelling really sucks
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:22 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:14 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Yeah I have noticed that. I am not sure why, but it doesn't seem a big deal.
Seems flustered to me. His recent posts are especially dumb, too.
It's still isn't as stupid as Jims argument that 6 million Jews didn't exist...
We all pretty much agreed that the Rizolis were the dumbest deniers. Being close to, but not as quite as dumb as the Kings of Stupid, is not really a point in David's favor. This thread is a debacle - and a travesty - for him, IMO.

David's revealed/confirmed a lot in this thread: he doesn't know anything, he's too lazy to learn, he relies on a few dishonest videos and websites.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:32 am

Lol apparently David Coll said the piping that leads into the rooms of majdaneks gas chambers didn't actually go through the wall. I need to find out where he said this! :lol:
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:52 pm

Over at Rodoh, Eric Hunt is still repeating his defective, dishonest argument about Majdanek:
Cole pretends he knows it all, but he never realized tourists are forced through Majdanek's Bath and Disinfection 1 the opposite way prisoners went through the camp. Why? He never bothered to do the research and even find the preliminary plans.
Still making {!#%@} up and lying to people who don't know better.

And to put it across, Hunt pretends that a plan is the same thing as what is executed.

And he conceals from his viewers and readers evidence about the construction history of the bathhouses and bunker, the different configurations of the two bathhouses (not so much as hinted at in the March 1942 plan on which he hangs his hat), testimonies from prisoners and SS men about the arrival process to the camp (especially the ugly little problems of the use of the Effektenkammer and Rosengarten, which are at complete variance with his claims), and postwar documents like the Polish-Soviet Commission report and bathhouse schematics (which show how the construction of the bathhouses was actually carried out). (Leaving aside evidence about the bunker itself!)

Kind of what David tries doing, eh? It is possible that David, who doesn't know anything about Majdanek, simply follows Hunt like a lap dog trying to keep up with his drunken fool owner - but Hunt has to know better and is certainly lying through his teeth. As for David's "argument," it's kind of amusing that

- he's told us that prisoners entered the camp from a different place, on the western side, to where Hunt says they came in
- he has questioned, without realizing it, TLB's insistence that prisoners were showered and then disinfected
- he doesn't understand that TLB relied on a false reading of the Polish-Soviet Commission Report to defend Hunt.

David can't even absorb the dimwit nonsense purveyed by Hunt and TLB about Majdanek. Of course, when it comes to the bathhouses and arrival of prisoners to the camp, David also fails as utterly as Hunt and TLB to explain the differences between the March 1942 plan and what was eventually built at the site - all of them just keep sputtering, "B-b-b-b-ut the plan!" In short, David doesn't know anything so he posts dumbed-down versions of dumb stuff.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:03 pm

To drive a bit of a stake through the heart of this monster, for those who give a crap, we've seen Nessie (in this thread), Balsamo (here and at Rodoh), and all our deniers fall for Hunt's trickery on the backwards bathhouses - his claim that prisoners could only have entered the bathhouses from the north after arriving in the camp from the north.

To put his deceit across, as I just posted, and have posted in the past, Hunt doesn't include the Effektenkammer or Rosengarten, so prominent in prisoner and SS recollections, in his "flow." Here is how Hunt contrasts what he calls "Lies" and "Truth":

Image

It's important to realize that neither of the these views is right. The "Lies" view is mistaken, the "Truth view is a lie!

Compare Hunt's "Lies" view with what I've described, based on evidence which has been cited and quoted in this thread:

Image

As should be clear, in contrast to David’s tomfoolery, both Hunt’s view and my view have prisoners entering the camp (actually the economic sector) from the Lublin-Zamosc-Chelm highway, which runs roughly to the north. The major difference of my view to the "Lies" view, however, is the inclusion of the Effektenkammer (43, 44) and Rosengarten (R) in my view. Both are included because evidence describes how each was part of the arrival processing.

That prisoners brought to Majdanek were generally taken first to the Effektenkammer shows how erroneous is Hunt's "Truth" view and exposes the silliness of his claim that prisoners headed into the bathhouses (41, 42) from the north. Because prisoners, just before being taken to the bathhouses, were in the Effektenkammer south of the bathhouses, not on a road coming from the north. As my view shows, arriving prisoners came down the black road and through the gate, and past the guardhouse, to the east of the bathhouses and were most often taken directly to the Effektenkammer, which lay south of the bathhouses. Prisoners generally went to the bathhouses or the Rosengarten, then, from the south. They did not go directly, as Hunt claims, from the Lublin-Zamosc-Chelm highway to the bathhouses.

Hunt's view omits crucial evidence about how prisoners entered Majdanek and the role played by the Effektenkammer in registration and surrender of valuables. Hunt is simply wrong. I don't know what else to say. (I won't re-post the testimonies and other material I've posted supporting this view here; it's interesting that early in this thread Nessie cited prisoner testimony about north-to-south flow through the bathhouses but was unable to provide any.)

Hunt's wrong on another key point, too. By 1943 the SS was also using the Rosengarten, just west of barrack 42. Generally, if a transport was large, many of the arriving prisoners, after surrendering valuables, etc, in the Effektenkammer, were held for hours in the Rosengarten while the first groups went straight to the bathhouses. From the Rosengarten, some prisoners were selected for gassing and taken to the gas chambers, and some, for admittance to the camp, were taken at that time to bath and shower.

These two points wreck Hunt's claims entirely and partly explain how we know that Hunt's "Truth" view is actually the lie.

It's also important to remember that especially during 1943 the SS carried selections for gassing in the Gammelblocks (barracks for prisoners unable to work) and elsewhere in the camp. These selections were of prisoners who’d been admitted to Majdanek and had been in the camp for some time. Prisoners were taken from the camp to the bathhouse-bunker area to be gassed, and this process didn't involve the arrival issues we've been discussing.

As noted above, Hunt is engaging in chicanery and deceit with his movie and subsequent "explanations." And David can't even follow the discussion. I've decided that trying to discuss Majdanek with David is pretty much as useful as attempting to explain gravity to a chihuahua.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:07 pm

- he's told us that prisoners entered the camp from a different place, on the western side, to where Hunt says they came in
This was not mentioned in Erics Video, it was Davids claim as an attempt to dismiss the claim of burn pyres.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:29 pm

Right, David told us that prisoners entered from the west, which is different to what Hunt says (he says they came from the highway to the north, as we also say). And, yes, the western route was David's nutty idea for why cremation pits would not have been located west of the bathhouse-bunker complex. All I was pointing out was that David differed to Hunt on the entry route - without his being aware of his doing so.
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