Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:23 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:And then David needs to show the sources and evidence that he thinks prove us wrong about the route we've spelled out. :)

...
But the idea seems to confuse you Believers and distract from the fact that all arriving prisoners ended up at Building 41 and 42,
the Shower and Disinfection buildings...
This is cute. He's read/watched about three eyewitness accounts and tells the world from that that the usually dishonest but now to be believed witnesses proved his case that all newcomers/prisoners went through the showers and bunker ("...and clothing fumigation building." - he'd kill 'em all, lol.)
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:28 pm

This is the only alternative path based on Davids narrative.

Image
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:12 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:This is cute. He's read/watched about three eyewitness accounts . . .
I am guessing that this is three more than he has read or watched.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:This is cute. He's read/watched about three eyewitness accounts . . .
I am guessing that this is three more than he has read or watched.
"About" is relative.
Spoiler:
Image
:-P
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:49 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:
David wrote:But the idea seems to confuse you Believers and distract from the fact that all arriving prisoners ended up at Building 41 and 42, the Shower and Disinfection buildings . . .

You Believers agree on that?
Not 100%, as I've already posted, and recently, that some prisoners (this was especially true during the time of the Warsaw transports in spring 1943) were taken to holding areas and kept there for days. You've also described the arrival process incorrectly, which I've also explained to you, as you left out the Effektenkammer and Rosengarten. You are also confused about buildings 41, 42, and the bunker.
Not 100%? What is that supposed to mean?

Anyway, your diagram implies that arrivals came into the camp and dropped off their
belongings at buildings 44 and 43 and then went to wait in the field next to 42.

How do you claim they entered buildings 42 and 41?



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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:59 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:But the idea seems to confuse you Believers and distract from the fact that all arriving prisoners ended up at Building 41 and 42, the Shower and Disinfection buildings . . .

You Believers agree on that?
Not 100%, as I've already posted, and recently, that some prisoners (this was especially true during the time of the Warsaw transports in spring 1943) were taken to holding areas and kept there for days. You've also described the arrival process incorrectly, which I've also explained to you, as you left out the Effektenkammer and Rosengarten. You are also confused about buildings 41, 42, and the bunker.
Not 100%? What is that supposed to mean?

Anyway, your diagram implies that arrivals came into the camp and dropped off their
belongings at buildings 44 and 43 and then went to wait in the field next to 42.

How do you claim they entered buildings 42 and 41?
The Southern end, you know this already, now explain where you believe people entered the camp and show evidence for what you claim.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:26 pm

David wrote:Not 100%? What is that supposed to mean?
It means "not 100%" and then you have to read the phrases and sentences that follow to find out why not 100%. Are you a big enough boy to do that?
David wrote:Anyway, your diagram implies that arrivals came into the camp and dropped off their belongings at buildings 44 and 43 and then went to wait in the field next to 42.
I have a serious question: Can you not read?

Here, one more time, what I've already posted on this:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . In the first place, the "direction of flow" issue is silly, if you’re familiar with the camp, testimonies about arrival and bathing in the camp, and the construction/layout of the facilities. What evidence actually shows is that the bathhouses – barracks nos. 41 and 42 – were used differently at different times, depending on the makeup and size of prisoner groups brought to them, on whether the prisoners were arriving to the camp or brought from the fields, whether the gas chambers were being used, and other factors. Some prisoners, for example, recall being bathed in Lysol, others in carbolic acid. Sometimes arriving prisoners were selected in the bathhouses and sent either to the shower room, if selected for labor, or northward to the gas chambers. Other times prisoners were detained to the west of the bathhouses in the “Rosengarten,” selected there, and taken from there to the gas chambers. It’s possible prisoners entered the bathhouse from the north for bathing, but I’ve not found any testimony saying this (I know of one testimony, from a prisoner-functionary named Georg Gröner, that explains how the prisoners were selected in the Rosengarten for the gas chambers, made to go the “antechamber” of the men’s bathhouse, possibly at the north, and from there were “herded” to the gas chamber – this is not close to the path revisionists insist on – see below; three other testimonies that describe prisoners waiting in the Rosengarten are given by Danuta Brzosko-Medryk, Symcha Turkeltaub, and Jerzy Kwiatkowski).

There’s no inherent reason prisoners couldn’t have used the bathhouses entering from the north, even though the evidence I know of is either indeterminate about direction of entry or puts entry for bathing from the south. (A longer discussion of prisoner arrival and processing is found here.)

In the second place, Hunt and BRoI have simply left out two key elements of the entry and processing of arriving prisoners – the Effektenkammer, south of the bathhouses, and, as we saw above, the Rosengarten, to their west.

The type of deception Hunt and BRoI try purveying about “northern entry” was cut through as long ago as the 1980s when Józef Marszałek in his book on Majdanek wrote, “the newly arrived were subjected to the ritual of reception (Aufnahme). In [sic] consisted in a hasty bath and in issuing identifications of the status of a given prisoner (Häftling). The mode of reception of the various groups in the years 1941 to 1944 differed in some details and in the order of formalities, but the principles remained the same.”

Here is the revisionist entry route defended by BRoI in his video (the route labeled “Truth” is what deniers have recently fixed on):

Image

Note that the visual has a “Lies” version that bears no relation to what historians have concluded, to what I’ve shown throughout this thread, or to what the testimonies I will present in this post say. Let’s look, for example, at how Marszałek described the entry process in his history of Majdanek: “After passing through the camp gate, the new arrivals were directed to barrack 44, where they had to surrender all they had with them and on them. Naked – whatever the season of the year or weather or conditions – they were rushed, with shouting and beating, to the nearby bathhouse. . . .” And: “barracks 43 and 44 (Effektenkammer) contained sacks with property taken away from prisoners. In barrack 43, also the newly arrived prisoners were received (Aufnahmebarake). This was where the new arrivals were robbed of their property, registered, and given numbers and signs.” What Marszałek says is not at all similar to what these revisionists claim historians say about the prisoner arrival-processing route.

The idea that barrack design worked only one way is a red herring. Prisoners could enter these simple horse-stable structures from either direction, no matter how the original plan for barrack no. 42 had it, and the structures could be adapted as uses or procedures changed. Indeed, that’s what the evidence shows to have been the case, as outlined above. Most of the testimonies I know of are not clear as to orientation. I know of no testimonies other than Gröner’s that seem possibly to describe entering the bathhouses from the north (there may be some, but I’ve not read them). . . .

A summary view of entry procedures described in a number of testimonies looks like this:

Image

The yellow line first shows prisoners being taken to the Effektenkammer – barracks 43-44, where they were processed and their valuables were taken from them. Next, another yellow line shows prisoners exiting the Effektenkammer and going (they went naked) to either of the bathhouses (barracks 41 or 42) or to the Rosengarten (R), where some prisoners waited their turn to be put through the bathhouses or taken to the gas chambers. Selections could occur in the Rosengarten or inside the bathhouses. I’ve labeled the bunker with gas chambers north of the bathhouses with a G. From the late summer or early fall 1942, a pavilion roof stood on pole supports over the gas chambers. There were, as noted above, variations to the flow shown here – but not the variation the revisionists call “Truth.”
Got it now? Mainly from the south, with the other steps and variations noted along the way.
David wrote:How do you claim they entered buildings 42 and 41?
As above and in other posts in this thread.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Aerial Photograph of

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:33 pm

Image

Here is an aerial photograph of Majdanek
Several roads lead into the Camp off of the Lublin-Chelm highway to the north.
Roads also come from the west and east.
However, they all converge at buildings 41 and 42.


This can be seen at

Image
Please note that the caption is out of date since it was based on an earlier Tale of Majdanek gas chambers.

SM's alleged "Gas chambers" were the fumigation buildings under the cover of the canopy.

So why did the roads converge on Buildings 41 and 42?
The answer is simple. New arrivals to the Camp needed to be registered, deloused, their possessions
decontaminated and put into storage and the new arrivals moved into the camp proper.

Both Buildings 41 and 42 were planned and built with this specific function in mind. They were both entered from the
North (left in the picture)


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: In the first place, the "direction of flow" issue is silly, if you’re familiar with the camp, testimonies about arrival and bathing in the camp, and the construction/layout of the facilities.

Your claim that direction of flow is "silly" is incorrect.

It is wrong because arriving inmates went through a step-by-step admission process upon being admitted to the Camp.

The process was registration, undressing, hair cut, bath and shower, redressing,
and admission into the Camp. Clothing was deloused. Once deloused, the inmates
were sent along the roadway to the south into the barrack area. Simple.


The process was reflected in the design and construction of Building 41 and 42.
Obvious from the plans.

People would not have entered into the camp without being deloused.

You are stupidly trying to reverse the direction of the flow.

The "SM Theory" has contaminated people entering the Camp to drop off their
undecontaiminated possessions, turning around to head north back into the bath
and out into the field to the north and past the clothing fumigation building
wherein SM claims there were two homicidal gas chambers.

Just watch Eric Hunt's video and focus on the plans of Buildings 41 and 42.
The importance of direction of flow is clear in the design of the buildings.








Last edited by David on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Aerial Photograph of

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:57 pm

David wrote:Image

Here is an aerial photograph of Majdanek
Like we've not seen this before. What's you point?
David wrote:Several roads lead into the Camp off of the Lublin-Chelm highway to the north.
Brilliant.
David wrote:Roads also come from the west and east.
Astounding.
David wrote:However, they all converge at buildings 41 and 42.
Look again.

But what is your point anyway? Are you stalling so you think you don't to answer D-H's question?

D-H's question doesn't require all these windmills and water hazards and sand traps. Just a direct reply.
David wrote:This can be seen at

Image
This photo and the aerial photo are oriented differently.
David wrote:SM's alleged "Gas chambers" were the fumigation buildings under the cover of the canopy.
But earlier you posted that the gas chambers were in buildings 41 and 42. Do you now withdraw that?

Besides, where the hell are you going here?
David wrote:So why did the roads converge on Buildings 41 and 42?
Those that did - because this is the economic sector of the camp and has gate for entrance into the main sections of the camp. The gate and sentry house happen to be just east of the bathhouses. But many roads led from/to other parts of the camp, like the SS sector, etc.
David wrote:New arrivals to the Camp needed to be registered, deloused, their possessions decontaminated and put into storage and the new arrivals moved into the camp proper.
???? No one is saying that prisoners weren't generally brought to the economics sector for arrival processing.
David wrote:Both Buildings 41 and 42 were planned and built with this specific function in mind. They were both entered from the North (left in the picture)
We should take your word for it just because you can mis-read an aerial photo?

But this is why knowing about the arrival process generally at KLs and specifically at Madjanek is important, so you don't just make dumb guesses. Prisoners usually went first to the Effektenkammer, south of the bathhouses, then to the bathhouses. Eric Hunt's video and map omit this step of the procedure, TLB was ignorant of it in his video, and you can't absorb it no matter how many times we spell it out. Prisoner and other testimonies describe this process - first Effektenkammer (to the south), then the bathhouses.

So now it is time for you first to mark a map and show how prisoners generally entered Majdanek and from where and then to provide sources for your claim.

And then you need to provide evidence

- showing that both buildings 41 and 42 were planned and built as you say
- proving prisoners entered the bathhouses only from the north, not other directions; that is, how the bathhouses were used starting fall 1942
- explaining how the Effektenkammer and Rosengarten were used
- identifying the supposed errors in what D-H and I have posted

No more tangents, excursions, trips to Cloud Cuckooland - just direct answers to what you've been asked. Like we give to you.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:08 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: In the first place, the "direction of flow" issue is silly, if you’re familiar with the camp, testimonies about arrival and bathing in the camp, and the construction/layout of the facilities.

Your claim that direction of flow is "silly" is incorrect.
No, I say that the issue as presented by Hunt and TLB is silly. The direction of flow could be either way, no matter how these barracks were built.
David wrote:It is wrong because arriving inmates went through a set-by-set admission process upon being admitted to the Camp.
All of them? Always the same? At all times in the camp's history? Prove it. Cite the procedures or guidelines or testimonies that lead you to make such a stupid statement.
David wrote:The process was registration
You are omitting an important early step - surrender of valuables. Recall, some prisoners weren't registered at all.

Leaving aside your woefully inadequate understanding, where did most prisoners register and/or surrender most of their valuables?
David wrote:Once deloused, the inmates were sent along the roadway to the south into the barrack area. Simple.
Not 100%. :)
David wrote:The process was reflected in the design and construction of Building 41 and 42.
Obvious from the plans.
The two buildings have different configurations, and we only have a plan for a building not even originally meant for that location!

So how is it obvious from the plans? I've shown you how building 41 doesn't match the March 1942 plan. You've given no answer to that major problem with the argument made by Hunt and TLB. Since August 2015!
David wrote:People would not have entered into the camp without being deloused.
Do you have evidence to support this statement? Show it.
David wrote:You are stupidly trying to reverse the direction of the flow.
I am only explaining what the evidence says about how the buildings were used. You are flying without evidence. That's a no-no.
David wrote:The "SM Theory" has contaminated people entering the Camp to drop off their undecontaiminated possessions, turning around to head north back into the bath and out into the field to the north and past the clothing fumigation building
wherein SM claims there were two homicidal gas chambers.
Please do not misquote me. I said that most people on entering the camp went to the Effektenkammer where they registered and/or surrendered their valuables. Then they went to the bathhouses - or waited in the Rosengarten. Most arriving inmates. There were exceptions. In other KLs, arriving prisoners also went first to the registration/valuables building or room as well. I've quoted testimonies of prisoners coming to Majdanek that state this process. You've done nothing but speculate based on maps and aerial photos which you can't read.
David wrote:Just watch Eric Hunt's video and focus on the plans of Buildings 41 and 42.
The importance of direction of flow is clear in the design of the buildings.
Mere assertion.

Answer the questions you were asked in August 2015 and have been asked repeatedly since then. If you can't, you only prove to all of us that your case is to chant "Eric was right" and make {!#%@} up.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:13 pm

This is getting too repetitious. David keeps ignoring (or misstating) whatever he doesn't like and posting the same {!#%@}. Which leaves us no choice but the repeat what he's ignored (or misstated). Guys, any advice on how to get him to reply clearly to what D-H and I've asked him?
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Re: Aerial Photograph of

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:20 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:SM's alleged "Gas chambers" were the fumigation buildings under the cover of the canopy.

But earlier you posted that the gas chambers were in buildings 41 and 42. Do you now withdraw that?


SM, you are confused. I don't think that there were homicidal gas chambers at Majdanek.

Some Believers claim that there were inside Building 41.
However, there were clothing fumigation rooms.
There was also a clothing fumigation structure to the north of Building 41 covered by a large canopy.

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Re: Aerial Photograph of

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:29 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:SM's alleged "Gas chambers" were the fumigation buildings under the cover of the canopy.

But earlier you posted that the gas chambers were in buildings 41 and 42. Do you now withdraw that?


SM, you are confused. I don't think that there were homicidal gas chambers at Majdanek.
Gas chambers, "gas chambers," whatever. You posted this nonsense:
David wrote:Here is a quote about the secrecy of the "gas chamber."

The gas chambers are located within sight of the main road that goes past the camp. The gas chamber building is barrack Number 41 which is shown in the photo above. A sign on the building says "Bad und Desinfektion" (Bath and Disinfection), which the Museum guidebook says was "to lull the vigilance of those condemned to death." There are actually two buildings near the entrance to the camp where Zyklon-B was used. Only the building used for gassing people with Zyklon-B was shown on the tour; the other one is barrack Number 42 which was used for delousing clothing with the same Zyklon-B when the camp was in operation. Barrack Number 42 is off limits to visitors.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Ma ... nek02.html
This is utter BS.
David wrote:Some Believers claim that there were inside Building 41.
You're discussing this with D-H, scrmbldggs, and me. Not "some Believers," but us. We've made our views clear. Deal with those views and stop trying to obfuscate.
David wrote:However, there were clothing fumigation rooms.
There was also a clothing fumigation structure to the north of Building 41 covered by a large canopy.
Baby steps for baby boy David. We're first trying to establish how prisoners came to Majdanek - you are still dodging D-H's request about this - and then how the bathhouses were generally used. Stop trying to wriggle out of this by moving to new topics.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:00 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: In the first place, the "direction of flow" issue is silly, if you’re familiar with the camp, testimonies about arrival and bathing in the camp, and the construction/layout of the facilities.

Your claim that direction of flow is "silly" is incorrect.
No, I say that the issue as presented by Hunt and TLB is silly. The direction of flow could be either way, no matter how these barracks were built.
So they took a shower and then got undressed? Nice theory there SM-

And did you notice that the Plans for Building 41 and 42 have a registration area on them?


Any registration area in Buildings 43 and 44?


David wrote:It is wrong because arriving inmates went through a set-by-set admission process upon being admitted to the Camp.
All of them? Always the same? At all times in the camp's history? Prove it. Cite the procedures or guidelines or testimonies that lead you to make such a stupid statement.
The design and construction of Buildings 41 and 42 show it. Obviously the Germans were concerned with keeping the
Camp disease free. Maybe the Germans did not always enforce the rules but the admission procedures were well defined.

What is stupid is your idea that contaminated arrivals were routinely admitted into the camp to drop off their possibly contaminated possessions, be registered in the storage area, hang out waiting for a shower, and then go backwards through Buildings 41 and 42.

David wrote:The process was registration
You are omitting an important early step - surrender of valuables. Recall, some prisoners weren't registered at all.
Why wouldn't the surrender of weapons and valuable have been done at Registration?
Or are you claiming all the paperwork was done in Buildings 43 and 44...while the arrivals were still contaminated?

As to unregistered arrivals, are you making the claim that they were admitted to the camp without being decontaiminated?
I do not know who or why prisoners would not be registered.



snip drivel

David wrote:Once deloused, the inmates were sent along the roadway to the south into the barrack area. Simple.
Not 100%. :)
David wrote:The process was reflected in the design and construction of Building 41 and 42.
Obvious from the plans.
The two buildings have different configurations, and we only have a plan for a building not even originally meant for that location!
The March 1942 plan is a design for a specific step-by-step use

So how is it obvious fro the plans? I've shown you how building 41 doesn't match the March 1942 plan. You've given no answer to that major problem with the argument made by Hunt and TLB.

David wrote:People would not have entered into the camp without being deloused.
{snip drivel]
David wrote:You are stupidly trying to reverse the direction of the flow.
I am only explaining what the evidence says about how the buildings were used. You are flying without evidence. That's a no-no.
Plans and construction are very good evidence, SM.

David wrote:The "SM Theory" has contaminated people entering the Camp to drop off their undecontaiminated possessions, turning around to head north back into the bath and out into the field to the north and past the clothing fumigation building
wherein SM claims there were two homicidal gas chambers.
Please do not misquote me. I said that most people on entering the camp went to the Effektenkammer where they registered and/or surrendered their valuables. Then they went to the bathhouses - or waited in the Rosengarten.
Funny, that is exactly what I quoted you as saying. Your "theory" has contaminated arrivals wandering around the camp without
being showered or their clothing fumigated. Your theory is stupid.



Most arriving inmates. There were exceptions. In other KLs, arriving prisoners also went first to the registration/valuables building or room as well. I've quoted testimonies of prisoners coming to Majdanek that state this process. You've done nothing but speculate based on maps and aerial photos which you can't read.

Are you claiming that the "Effektenkammer" was more than buildings 43 and 44?
Do you have any plans, photographs, or physical evidence that registration went on there?


David wrote:Just watch Eric Hunt's video and focus on the plans of Buildings 41 and 42.
The importance of direction of flow is clear in the design of the buildings.
Mere assertion. This is your shower-undress theory again.

Answer the questions you were asked in August 2015 and have been asked repeatedly since then. If you can't, you only prove to all of us that your case is to chant "Eric was right" and make {!#%@} up.

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Re: Aerial Photograph of

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:SM's alleged "Gas chambers" were the fumigation buildings under the cover of the canopy.

But earlier you posted that the gas chambers were in buildings 41 and 42. Do you now withdraw that?


SM, you are confused. I don't think that there were homicidal gas chambers at Majdanek.
Gas chambers, "gas chambers," whatever. You posted this nonsense:
David wrote:Here is a quote about the secrecy of the "gas chamber."

The gas chambers are located within sight of the main road that goes past the camp. The gas chamber building is barrack Number 41 which is shown in the photo above. A sign on the building says "Bad und Desinfektion" (Bath and Disinfection), which the Museum guidebook says was "to lull the vigilance of those condemned to death." There are actually two buildings near the entrance to the camp where Zyklon-B was used. Only the building used for gassing people with Zyklon-B was shown on the tour; the other one is barrack Number 42 which was used for delousing clothing with the same Zyklon-B when the camp was in operation. Barrack Number 42 is off limits to visitors.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Ma ... nek02.html
This is utter BS.
Haha, SM you have a habit of swearing when confronted by facts you don't like.
Are you claiming that the Museum guidebook doesn't say, "to lull the vigilance of those condemned to death?"
Maybe the sign was what kept the contaminated prisoners you theorize wandered around the Camp from noticing
the "Gas Chambers." Your "theory" does have them wander right by the "gas chambers." In fact, don't
you have the still contaminated victims ( and others)hanging out in the "Rosengarten?" Wasn't this right next to Buildings 41 and 42?
Maybe you should check the aerial photographs again? :lol:

It is interesting that Building 42 is not open to the public...or do you think that Scrapbook is lying?


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:27 pm

http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map

There is an interactive Map at http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map
You can see an aerial photograph of Buildings 41-44

There is a large canopy covering the entrance area of both Building 41 and 42.
The Believer claim is that the canopy was designed to prevent aerial observation of the
"gas chamber." This claim of secrecy is absurd given that every person coming into the Camp
would walk or drive right pass the "gas chamber."

Since the canopy covers the entrance area to both Building 41 and 42 it seems logical that the
structure was designed to protect people waiting to be registered.

Another obvious use would be to provide protected space to air out clothing fumigated in the fumigation
rooms.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:41 pm

David wrote:So they took a shower and then got undressed? Nice theory there SM-
You're confusing order of steps in the process with the building configuration. I've shown that TLB was wrong about the shower room, both in how it was used and the sequence of steps (disinfection bath, shower). There is no reason inmates couldn't enter that room from the south, bath or shower first. You've not responded to my questions about this.
David wrote: And did you notice that the Plans for Building 41 and 42 have a registration area on them?
No. I never have seen any plans for building 41.

Have you noticed that TLB missed that there's an undressing room south of the showers in both bathhouses? And that TLB tried to mislead his viewers about this?
David wrote:Any registration area in Buildings 43 and 44?
Yes. I don't have a schematic of these buildings in 1942-1943, but I've posted prisoners' and guards' testimony about them. In museum publications and the testimonies you can read about the procedure used, including cards and bags used for belongings, etc.
David wrote:The design and construction of Buildings 41 and 42 show it.
No, they don't.
David wrote:Obviously the Germans were concerned with keeping the Camp disease free. Maybe the Germans did not always enforce the rules but the admission procedures were well defined.
You say so. But you refuse to provide any evidence whatsoever. Unless you do, I am going to conclude you don't know and are making things up to suit your "debating" needs. "Obviously" is a dead giveaway: you use this word because you're guessing and you don't know.

Evidence, David. Do you have any?
David wrote:What is stupid is your idea that contaminated arrivals were routinely admitted into the camp to drop off their possibly contaminated possessions, be registered in the storage area, hang out waiting for a shower, and then go backwards through Buildings 41 and 42.
This is not what I've described. Stop lying about what's been posted here. Incoming prisoners were not routinely admitted into the camp before going through the bathhouses. What I have told you is that they usually went to the Effektenkammer before they went to the bathhouses, all of which took place before they were admitted into the camp. Prisoners and SS describe this process, and it was also used at other camps.
David wrote:Why wouldn't the surrender of weapons and valuable have been done at Registration?
It was done in the Effektenkammer with final search for hidden valuables in the bathhouses. Some prisoners were not registered but they had to surrender valuables in the Effektenkammer, too.
David wrote:As to unregistered arrivals, are you making the claim that they were admitted to the camp without being decontaiminated?
Mostly they were murdered in the gas chambers.
David wrote:I do not know who or why prisoners would not be registered.
Because they were not admitted into the camp.
David wrote:The March 1942 plan is a design for a specific step-by-step use
So what? Can you prove, using evidence, that both bathhouses were built to that design? Can you prove that building 42 was used as designed?

The trouble is that we have a design for a building to be constructed at a different location - then we have 2 buildings, one of which clearly doesn't follow the design and we have testimonies that describe a different process than the design implies. You have to explain all that - simply stomping your feet and barking about the original design doesn't do so.
David wrote:Plans and construction are very good evidence, SM.
Well, a plan from March 1942 that doesn't match what was built and doesn't match witness accounts is good evidence, but not for what you think.
David wrote:Funny, that is exactly what I quoted you as saying. Your "theory" has contaminated arrivals wandering around the camp without being showered or their clothing fumigated. Your theory is stupid.
No. You wrote, "The 'SM Theory' has contaminated people entering the Camp" and now you have me saying people wandered around the camp. I didn't describe a process like that. Prisoners - other than in exceptional circumstances - were not admitted to the camp before going to the bathhouses and they didn't wander around the camp before being registered or bathed/showered. And I never said that they did.

They were marched into the Effektenkammer, most times, and then to either the bathhouse or the Rosengarten. Under armed guard. With close supervision.

When you simply make stuff up and lie about what we post, you further destroy your credibility.
David wrote:Are you claiming that the "Effektenkammer" was more than buildings 43 and 44?
No.
David wrote:This is your shower-undress theory again.
I don't even know what you're talking about. Except that again you appear to be lying about what I've written.

Answer, first, D-H's request and, second, what I asked you a year ago August so we don't have to endure any more of this inanity from you.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aerial Photograph of

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:47 pm

David wrote: Haha, SM you have a habit of swearing when confronted by facts you don't like.
Odd, they are no facts I don't like in what you posted.
David wrote: Are you claiming that the Museum guidebook doesn't say, "to lull the vigilance of those condemned to death?"
Maybe the sign was what kept the contaminated prisoners you theorize wandered around the Camp from noticing the "Gas Chambers." Your "theory" does have them wander right by the "gas chambers."
No, my objection to the passage was her attempt to place the gas chambers in the bathhouses, and ignore the bunkers.

Again, prisoners didn't wander around or wander right by the bunker. They were marched through a gate and across the area south of the bathhouses directly to the Effektenkammer. Then they were taken to the bathhouses or Rosengarten. Usually.

Why is this so hard for you? Oh, right, because you're trying to obfuscate and you are not an honest broker.
David wrote: In fact, don't you have the still contaminated victims ( and others)hanging out in the "Rosengarten?"
No, the prisoners in the Rosengarten were not "hanging out." They were under guard. They had not yet been showered or bathed. The Rosengarten was used when the number of prisoners was too large for processing at once in the bathhouses. Sometimes they remained there many hours.
David wrote: Wasn't this right next to Buildings 41 and 42?
Maybe you should check the aerial photographs again? :lol:
Why would I have to check what I've marked and shown you? You don't make any sense, David. No, the Rosengarten was directly west of building no. 42, it was not next to building no. 41.
David wrote: It is interesting that Building 42 is not open to the public...or do you think that Scrapbook is lying?
No. The museum says, and visitors to the camp can see, that building no. 42 is not open to the public.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:01 pm

David wrote:http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map

There is an interactive Map at http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map
You can see an aerial photograph of Buildings 41-44

There is a large canopy covering the entrance area of both Building 41 and 42.
Why are you introducing another, less detailed map to show what has been shown in more accurate ways a number of times?

Oh, right, anything to avoid answering what you've been asked.
David wrote:The Believer claim is that the canopy was designed to prevent aerial observation of the "gas chamber."
Source? Kranz doesn't make this argument, for example. He distinguishes, by the way, between design and eventual usage.

So now you've changed your argument and are saying that prisoners did come into the camp as we've said? Is that how we should read this? Or are you on a coulda-shoulda-woulda jag, ignoring evidence as you toss out supposed impossibilities and better practices?
David wrote:This claim of secrecy is absurd given that every person coming into the Camp would walk or drive right pass the "gas chamber."
This is another example of the pathetic denier argument that because something wasn't a best use it could not therefore be used for the purpose at all. There are actually some testimonies from prisoners - gassings were usually at night and they were not constant - about the operation of the gas chambers that they observed as they passed by the northern end of the economics sector. The Germans made use of that which they built in the camp for changing purposes - and adapted things as needed - making tradeoffs and finding work-arounds - so, no, Majdanek wasn't designed at the outset as an extermination site. Nor to hold women, nor as a place for so-called death transports or for executions of victims held in Lublin castle. But it handled these and other tasks. None of it was optimal. The camp was a calamity, a disgusting mess, rampant with disease, filth, and brutality. Constantly short of water and sanitation provisions. With crappy accommodations and at times terrible overcrowding. So what? The Germans got by. The SS bootstrapped procedures.
David wrote:Since the canopy covers the entrance area to both Building 41 and 42 it seems logical that the structure was designed to protect people waiting to be registered.
It may seem logical to you, but this is not what the evidence describes. First, there is no evidence that the canopy was designed with this in mind. Second, there is no evidence that incoming prisoners waited here for registration - they were registered on the southern side of the bathhouses, after all.
David wrote: obvious use would be to provide protected space to air out clothing fumigated in the fumigation rooms.
I think that the original purpose of the roof was to protect disinfected clothing from the elements. That is what the museum director also says, despite your claim above about what "Believers" supposedly say.

Sigh. I guess you're not going to answer what you've been asked. Coward.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:34 pm

:hmm: I think David needs a new stylist. Those colors are not only unflattering, but also all wrong.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:36 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:This is getting too repetitious. David keeps ignoring (or misstating) whatever he doesn't like and posting the same {!#%@}. Which leaves us no choice but the repeat what he's ignored (or misstated). Guys, any advice on how to get him to reply clearly to what D-H and I've asked him?
We could just continue to reply to him the Majdanek map until he draws the route on it and posts it for us.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:37 pm

Seems he hasn't mastered that technique with his crayons yet.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:47 pm

scrmbldggs wrote::hmm: I think David needs a new stylist. Those colors are not only unflattering, but also all wrong.
and his quoting skills have declined from terrible
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:51 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:This is getting too repetitious. David keeps ignoring (or misstating) whatever he doesn't like and posting the same {!#%@}. Which leaves us no choice but the repeat what he's ignored (or misstated). Guys, any advice on how to get him to reply clearly to what D-H and I've asked him?
We could just continue to reply to him the Majdanek map until he draws the route on it and posts it for us.
Good call, let's all do that.

Then next up is the five Q's from August 2015.

David, you're on. Pick up your crayon and have at it:

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:54 am

This is a better map... then we can judge the route that David draws as a whole.

Image
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:24 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: and his quoting skills have declined from terrible
He gets worse in the late afternoon. It's not just because he's drunk.

Sundowning, is a psychological phenomenon associated with increased confusion and restlessness in patients with delirium or some form of dementia. Most commonly associated with Alzheimer's disease,

I can almost tell what time sunset was in California, after David starts struggling and first posts his words "you believers" :lol:

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: and his quoting skills have declined from terrible
He gets worse in the late afternoon. It's not just because he's drunk.

Sundowning, is a psychological phenomenon associated with increased confusion and restlessness in patients with delirium or some form of dementia. Most commonly associated with Alzheimer's disease,

I can almost tell what time sunset was in California, after David starts struggling and first posts his words "you believers" :lol:

:lol:
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

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“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:52 am

Denying-History wrote:This is a better map... then we can judge the route that David draws as a whole. < snip>
Good point, he can work with both. David - use the map D-H posted to "get" the prisoners to Lublin and into the camp. For details of their route through the camp, please use the map I posted. With these two maps, you should be able to help cut down on lengthy posts and put an end to the confusion your confusion causes. :)

And don't forget to share with us the evidence you consulted . . .
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:26 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:So they took a shower and then got undressed? Nice theory there SM-
You're confusing order of steps in the process with the building configuration. I've shown that TLB was wrong about the shower room, both in how it was used and the sequence of steps (disinfection bath, shower). There is no reason inmates couldn't enter that room from the south, bath or shower first. You've not responded to my questions about this.

You are forgetting Registration and hair cutting. Wouldn't the disinfection bath be prior
to the shower?

But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would
exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:27 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:So they took a shower and then got undressed? Nice theory there SM-
You're confusing order of steps in the process with the building configuration. I've shown that TLB was wrong about the shower room, both in how it was used and the sequence of steps (disinfection bath, shower). There is no reason inmates couldn't enter that room from the south, bath or shower first. You've not responded to my questions about this.

You are forgetting Registration and hair cutting. And wouldn't the disinfection bath be prior
to the shower?

But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would
exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:30 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:So they took a shower and then got undressed? Nice theory there SM-
You're confusing order of steps in the process with the building configuration. I've shown that TLB was wrong about the shower room, both in how it was used and the sequence of steps (disinfection bath, shower). There is no reason inmates couldn't enter that room from the south, bath or shower first. You've not responded to my questions about this.

You are forgetting Registration and hair cutting. And wouldn't the disinfection bath be prior
to the shower?

But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would
exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?

Draw your route
Image
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:32 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map

There is an interactive Map at http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map
You can see an aerial photograph of Buildings 41-44

There is a large canopy covering the entrance area of both Building 41 and 42.
Why are you introducing another, less detailed map to show what has been shown in more accurate ways a number of times?

If you look at the map (instead of making snide comments)
you can see a picture of Buildings 41 and 42 taken from the north in 1944.


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:49 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map

There is an interactive Map at http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map
You can see an aerial photograph of Buildings 41-44

There is a large canopy covering the entrance area of both Building 41 and 42.
Why are you introducing another, less detailed map to show what has been shown in more accurate ways a number of times?

If you look at the map (instead of making snide comments)
you can see a picture of Buildings 41 and 42 taken from the north in 1944.

Quit avoiding it! Draw your path David! Draw it!

Image
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:57 am

David wrote:You are forgetting Registration and hair cutting.
No, I simply mentioned what TLB screwed up when he wrote about the shower room. I didn't list out the full process, nitwit. (I wrote about the two points TLB messed with in the shower room: "I've shown that TLB was wrong about the shower room, both in how it was used and the sequence of steps (disinfection bath, shower)." That's all.)
David wrote:Wouldn't the disinfection bath be priorto the shower?
You tell us. Would it? How do you know? What did TLB say? Do you even remember what TLB said? (Hint: I explained this in the posts I made explaining the 5 questions I asked you in August 2015. Will you promise to share your great discovery with TLB?)
David wrote:But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?
Am I? Quote what I have said about exiting the bathhouses.

Get busy.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:01 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map

There is an interactive Map at http://www.majdanek.eu/en/museum-map
You can see an aerial photograph of Buildings 41-44

There is a large canopy covering the entrance area of both Building 41 and 42.
Why are you introducing another, less detailed map to show what has been shown in more accurate ways a number of times?

If you look at the map (instead of making snide comments)
you can see a picture of Buildings 41 and 42 taken from the north in 1944.

So what? We've had every view anyone needs months ago. Stop stalling.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:42 am

[quote="Statistical Mechanic"]


Have you noticed that TLB missed that there's an undressing room south of the showers in both bathhouses? And that TLB tried to mislead his viewers about this?

The room is labeled Ankleideraum or "dressing room."
The final step in the disinfection process was having people put clean clothes back on.
SM.

Undressing room is Auskleideraum. There is even a room for "dirty clothes" next to the undressing room, labeled Kleiderannahme.
The plan shows the Auskleideraum at the north end of the building next to the Registration room
(Anmeldung) and entrance Eingang shortened to Eing

SM, you have made a fool out of yourself with your nasty accusations of TLB.

The steps in registering new arrivals were Registration and deposit of valuables, undressing,
haircutting (in the scheerraum), showers, disinfection bath, dressing, exit inside the Camp.
The plans and the construction based on the plans all make sense.


Please just Watch Eric Hunt's video for a detailed photographic scan of the plans.
Unless you want to watch Kate Winslet
dissing Holocaust exploitation movies... go to minute 37 and learn something

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Denying-History » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:50 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:

Have you noticed that TLB missed that there's an undressing room south of the showers in both bathhouses? And that TLB tried to mislead his viewers about this?

The room is labeled Ankleideraum or "dressing room."
The final step in the disinfection process was having people put clean clothes back on.
SM.

Undressing room is Auskleideraum.
The plan shows the Auskleideraum at the north end of the building next to the Registration room
(Anmeldung) and entrance Eingang shortened to Eing

SM, you have made a fool out of yourself with your nasty accusations of TLB.
The steps in registering new arrivals was Registration and deposit of valuables, undressing,
haircutting (in the scheerraum), disinfection bath, showers, dressing, exit inside the Camp.

Please just Watch Eric Hunt's video for a detailed photographic scan of the plans.
Unless you want to watch Kate Winslet
dissing Holocaust exploitation movies... go to minute 37 and learn something

You are full of {!#%@}.

Draw your route.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:52 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:But, again, you are claiming that the people going through the disinfection process would exit on the north side of Buildings 41 and 42?
Am I? Quote what I have said about exiting the bathhouses.

Get busy.
Considering that you don't know the difference between an Ankleideraum
and an Auskleideraum I am not sure what goofy theory you will come up with.

Do you want to tell us?


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:01 am

Denying-History wrote:
You are full of {!#%@}.

Draw your route.
My my Mr. D-H, you are as dumb as you are vulgar.
It would help you understand the operation of Majdanek if you looked
at the plans and the buildings as built.
I will repeat that I don't have a ''route" that arriving prisoners used to to get to
Buildings 41 and 42.
However these two buildings seem to be the entrance point for arriving prisoners.
Their design, along with the fumigation facilities and the storage buildings 43 and 44
make a complete and well thought out facility.

SM's insistence that "I draw my route" is a straw man."