Hunts Majdanek film.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:16 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:I guess that answers my earlier question: tourists.

Well then, to learn something new, supported with photographic and documentary evidence - who needs scholars and actual research...
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by TazKa » Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:33 pm

I cannot believe someone went ahead and made a youtube video to answer StatMec. Wouldn't it be easier to just join here and answer :lol: :lol: i am just hoping this guy is not BROI [ytube][/ytube] It sound like a right knob :P
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:00 pm

TazKa wrote:I cannot believe someone went ahead and made a youtube video to answer StatMec. Wouldn't it be easier to just join here and answer :lol: :lol: i am just hoping this guy is not BROI [ytube][/ytube] It sound like a right knob :P
Neither can I. It appears that some knob was trying to rescue David by finding evidence – long after the “wrongway gas chambers” claims were made – finally to support the claims.

I enjoyed the video quite a bit – well, I was flattered by all the effort. I can only think that someone has been rattled quite badly by the discussion in our little junior forum. And also more than a little embarrassed by David’s inability to give a reply to the simplest of questions . . . but the video didn't answer the question I'd asked about how these guys are supposed to know that the gas chambers are the wrong way. It just recycled some stuff we've discussed about the original plans from half a year before the gassings started, showed us a photo from a couple months before when the gas chamber under the roof was built, mixed up the disinfection process, and cherrypicked the Polish-Soviet reports. You'd think if hippity-hop cared so much, he'd get his butt here instead of making a YouTube video, for crissakes!
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Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by TazKa » Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:44 pm

That works both ways StatMec. You could have smashed BROI's claims in RODOH if you think you are right :) I would have paid good money to read you guys debate in any subject...
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:09 pm

TazKa wrote:That works both ways StatMec. You could have smashed BROI's claims in RODOH if you think you are right :) I would have paid good money to read you guys debate in any subject...
TazKa, I left RODOH when a moderator posted a member's personal information. I won't post there under such conditions. The "good" folks there are well aware of that. The discussion evolved here - and anyone has been welcome to join it. Someone apparently prefers commenting from afar. - SM
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:09 pm

TazKa wrote:I cannot believe someone went ahead and made a youtube video to answer StatMec. Wouldn't it be easier to just join here and answer :lol: :lol: i am just hoping this guy is not BROI [ytube][/ytube] It sound like a right knob :P
Hello Taz-
He has probably observed the stupid responses of Believers in the thread and figured it was useless to bandy words with ignorant fanatics.
Far more people have already watched the very informative video.

And, speaking of " stupid responses," you didn't address any of the powerful documentary and photographic evidence presented.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I was flattered by all the effort. I can only think that someone has been rattled quite badly by the discussion in our little junior forum. And also more than a little embarrassed by David’s inability to give a reply to the simplest of questions . . . but the video didn't answer the question I'd asked about how these guys are supposed to know that the gas chambers are the wrong way. It just recycled some stuff we've discussed about the original plans from half a year before the gassings started, showed us a photo from a couple months before when the gas chamber under the roof was built, mixed up the disinfection process, and cherrypicked the Polish-Soviet reports. You'd think if hippity-hop cared so much, he'd get his butt here instead of making a YouTube video, for crissakes!

Hello SM- You were "flattered by all the effort?"
The guy has correctly observed that you are...how can I put this politely?...so fu*k'n stupid that he has put the information in a video
to help you out.
As he wryly comments, Plans of how the building was built "doesn't constitute evidence to Statistical M..." so he has photographs from
1944 and later. It was a Great job and will help out all the people who think your aggressive ranting means anything.

If you don't understand that the Majdanek Tale has be revised from the 1944 propaganda - death figures have dropped from 2,000,000 and SIX gas chambers to the still horrible but "normal" 78,000 deaths and NO gas chambers then
please drop your copy of Maus and watch the video.


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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:33 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: I was flattered by all the effort. I can only think that someone has been rattled quite badly by the discussion in our little junior forum. And also more than a little embarrassed by David’s inability to give a reply to the simplest of questions . . . but the video didn't answer the question I'd asked about how these guys are supposed to know that the gas chambers are the wrong way. It just recycled some stuff we've discussed about the original plans from half a year before the gassings started, showed us a photo from a couple months before when the gas chamber under the roof was built, mixed up the disinfection process, and cherrypicked the Polish-Soviet reports. You'd think if hippity-hop cared so much, he'd get his butt here instead of making a YouTube video, for crissakes!

Hello SM- You were "flattered by all the effort?"
The guy has correctly observed that you are...how can I put this politely?...so fu*k'n stupid that he has put the information in a video
to help you out.
As he wryly comments, Plans of how the building was built "doesn't constitute evidence to Statistical M..." so he has photographs from
1944 and later. It was a Great job and will help out all the people who think your aggressive ranting means anything.

If you don't understand that the Majdanek Tale has be revised from the 1944 propaganda - death figures have dropped from 2,000,000 and SIX gas chambers to the still horrible but "normal" 78,000 deaths and NO gas chambers then
please drop your copy of Maus and watch the video.

Your quotes are a bit confusing, David. Who is it that has photos from 1944 and later you say?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:02 pm

David is still on ignore - but, uh, the video had not one piece of evidence suggesting north-south routing of prisoners during the period which we have been discussing, starting in October 1942 - and, no, a plan from March 1942 (which we've already discussed in the forum!) doesn't tell me, David, or anyone else how the building was used months later, when the bunker had been added to the site and the three buildings there now had a new purpose - ditto a photo taken before the bunker was added. It's a non-starter. I was asking for actual evidence of how the barracks were used when the gas chamber was present - not when the gas chamber hadn't been built yet. If David phones headquarters to come up with something, and finally has an answer, I'm sure someone will let me know.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:33 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Your quotes are a bit confusing, David. Who is it that has photos from 1944 and later you say?
The maker of the video.

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SM

Post by David » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:00 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:David is still on ignore - but, uh, the video had not one piece of evidence suggesting north-south routing of prisoners during the period which we have been discussing, starting in October 1942 - and, no, a plan from March 1942 (which we've already discussed in the forum!) doesn't tell me, David, or anyone else how the building was used months later, when the bunker had been added to the site and the three buildings there now had a new purpose - ditto a photo taken before the bunker was added. It's a non-starter. I was asking for actual evidence of how the barracks were used when the gas chamber was present - not when the gas chamber hadn't been built yet. If David phones headquarters to come up with something, and finally has an answer, I'm sure someone will let me know.
My goodness, SM, do you understand that the building was built according to the plans?
Why do you think it was located right at the entrance to the Camp?
So people would come in the entrance, as shown on the plans and as built, and go out the exit into the Camp.


Here are some more ridiculous tales for you to declare your Faith in.

A sign in the shower room says that prisoners were given a shower before gassing to "quite (sic) them down." The tour guide explained that the victims were given a hot shower so they would die more quickly in the gas chamber because the Nazis found that the heat of the bodies caused the gas to work faster.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... anek2.html

As has been pointed out to you, the number of deaths at Majdanek has dropped from the 2,000,000 propaganda tales of
1944 being killed in 6 gas chambers to a "normal" level of 78,000-

Out of curiosity, How many people do you claim were gassed in the alleged gas chambers?

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Xcalibur » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:41 am

Well, when you stop blathering about soap and wasting people's time over it, perhaps you'll be worthy of a response on Majdanek.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:48 am

Xcalibur wrote:Well, when you stop blathering about soap and wasting people's time over it, perhaps you'll be worthy of a response on Majdanek.
LOL he has to work himself off ignore - he can do that only if he stops being a dickhead. That means answering questions he's asked, no more dodging, no more mindless repetition. I don't think he can bring it off.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:08 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Your quotes are a bit confusing, David. Who is it that has photos from 1944 and later you say?
The maker of the video.
Ah. Thanks.
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Re: Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:11 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:David is still on ignore - but, uh, the video had not one piece of evidence suggesting north-south routing of prisoners during the period which we have been discussing, starting in October 1942 - and, no, a plan from March 1942 (which we've already discussed in the forum!) doesn't tell me, David, or anyone else how the building was used months later, when the bunker had been added to the site and the three buildings there now had a new purpose - ditto a photo taken before the bunker was added. It's a non-starter. I was asking for actual evidence of how the barracks were used when the gas chamber was present - not when the gas chamber hadn't been built yet. If David phones headquarters to come up with something, and finally has an answer, I'm sure someone will let me know.
My goodness, SM, do you understand that the building was built according to the plans?
Why do you think it was located right at the entrance to the Camp?
So people would come in the entrance, as shown on the plans and as built, and go out the exit into the Camp.


Here are some more ridiculous tales for you to declare your Faith in.

A sign in the shower room says that prisoners were given a shower before gassing to "quite (sic) them down." The tour guide explained that the victims were given a hot shower so they would die more quickly in the gas chamber because the Nazis found that the heat of the bodies caused the gas to work faster.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... anek2.html

As has been pointed out to you, the number of deaths at Majdanek has dropped from the 2,000,000 propaganda tales of
1944 being killed in 6 gas chambers to a "normal" level of 78,000-

Out of curiosity, How many people do you claim were gassed in the alleged gas chambers?
(Emphasis mine)

I think there was another reason to have them naked in the bath: inspection for selections.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:29 am

Still no evidence for the claim I asked David about? Apparently not, just more of David's confusing his opinion with actual evidence - and he now asks that I repeat what I've written earlier in this thread about the number of deaths by which method at KL Lublin. Lots of stuff being repeated by our revs . . . what a silly little man David is. He stays on ignore . . .
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:57 am

Several days ago Google search turned up this video about our Majdanek thread and my posts in this thread:

On the whole I was reminded of a remark made by the Greek playwright Terence, "Here is someone who with great effort is going to say something very silly.”

The narrator seems to suffer from the misunderstanding that the discussion in SSF concerned the design of the bathhouses before the bunker and gas chambers were added. My request, on the other hand, was for evidence for how the bathhouses and bunker were used after the bunker under the canopy was built (August-October 1942) and not before. Aside from a couple of points that don't add up, and some selective use of various sources, the hard evidence in the video pertains to March 1942 (the original blueprint for barrack no. 42) and summer 1942 (by way of an apparent photo of prisoners waiting outside either barrack 41 or 42) – in other words, before there were gas chambers in a bunker under a pavilion roof at the site. And before prisoners were being gassed in the bunker. So I'm still waiting for evidence for a "wrongway” gas chambers-bathhouse complex.

Focusing on the 4 "proofs" the narrator of the video claims, then, and adding in his claim about my misrepresenting Kranz, I’ve got a few comments:

Claim 1. the original German plan for barrack no. 42 clearly states that prisoners entered through the northern end of the bathhouses and exited to the south

The original German plan was from March 1942, months before the decision was taken to use the bathhouses in gassing operations and before the addition of a gas chambers bunker and pavilion roof north of the bathhouses. The plan does not clearly state that prisoners “entered” from the north: it is actually a preliminary design for a disinfection and shower facility dated March 1942 that would have prisoners enter from the north, but it is not evidence for what actually occurred starting fall 1942 when the bathhouse-bunker facility was first used for gassing (the bunker construction began in August 1942, according to Kranz, and was completed that fall).

It is curious that the narrator fails to mention that the original blueprint shown in the video dated from March 1942 before there was any plan for the bunker and pavilion to the north. This timing is a crucial piece of the argument I made in my SSF posts. By omitting this detail, the narrator makes sure that viewers do not understand that the blueprint dates to months before the complex was altered with the bunker added to the north of barrack no. 41.

Claim 2. the Polish-Soviet report stating that the undressing room was on northerly end of barrack no 42

The bathhouse which was reconfigured after the war, with the enclosure joining bathhouse to bunker, is barrack no. 41. The postwar Polish-Soviet Commission report on Majdanek says of this barrack - which Hunt claims has been maintained as reconstructed to deceive - that access to the pavilion-bunker area came from its northern end (which the report erroneously described as gas chamber IV, an installation for killing people). What the report called an access point to the pavilion could be an entry or exit - there's no way to tell from just the report itself. As to barrack no. 42, indeed, the commission's report first described the northernmost room leading to the pavilion-bunker as an undressing room – without mentioning flow of prisoners; the assumption could well have been made by the commission that prisoners undressed there before exiting to the pavilion area or that the prisoners undressed there after entering the bathhouse from the pavilion area – we don’t know from what was stated in the report. On the other hand, this northernmost room is described as a “dressing room” elsewhere in the report (quoted in Graf & Mattogno, Concentration Camp Majdanek: A Historical and Technical Study, p 123), making its function, at least based on the report, uncertain - rather than certain as the narrator says.

Further, the Polish-Soviet Commission report is explicit about the rooms in the barracks, especially in barrack no. 41. It has no mention of the “vestibule,” which seems odd – the report says precisely that “The pole-support roof is only accessible through said gate or through the immediately adjacent Undressing Room of Barrack No. 42 and the gas chamber of Barrack No. 41 / see Diagram 1 /.” Not a word about access through a “vestibule.” Nor do the Polish-Soviet diagrams reprinted in Graf & Mattogno show a “vestibule” protruding at the northern end of either barrack.

It is a bit amusing to see the narrator torture and parse the commission report on such a detail when it contains so many errors, e.g., describing the northern rooms of barrack no. 41 as a gas chamberfor murder. The Polish-Soviet report, on the other hand, lists an “Undressing Room” in both barrack 41 and 42 to the south of the shower room (e.g., as to barrack no. 42 “The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .” - Graf & Mattogno, p 122), a detail which the narrator preferred keeping to himself, as it undermines his entire argument about the flow of prisoners and his selective use of the commission report to “prove” his case. An “Undressing Room” to the south of the shower room, of course, implies a south to north flow of prisoners.

Claim 3. position of delousing baths

The position of the delousing baths could accommodate the flow of prisoners through barrack no. 42 in either direction. The baths were located to the south end of a large room in the middle of the barrack, a room which also contained the showers; prisoners needn’t have passed from one room to the next to reach the delousing baths or the showers. In that the delousing baths and showers were together in a single space, there's nothing definitive here about flow of prisoners, despite the narrator’s excitement.

According to the narrator, the processing of prisoners through the bathhouses could only have gone as follows: “the location of the baths is consistent with the prisoners proceeding through these barracks in a southerly direction: they would have undressed, had their hair cut, showered, dunked in the delousing fluid, and finally dressed. Statistical Mechanic would probably have us believe that prisoners dunked in the bath with the delousing fluid and then went under the showers washing it all off.” But I know of two post-war testimonies that state that prisoners were disinfected first, then showered, precisely the sequence that the narrator scoffs at. Here, for example, is testimony given by Zofia Pawlowska (teacher from Kolomyja) concerning the bathhouses during 1943: “. . . In the anteroom of the bathhouse we packed our clothes in paper sacks, we were inspected and had our heads disinfected, and then we washed in the showers under streams of hot and cold water. After the showers we marched to the room with clothes . . .” (Wisnioch, Majdanek: A Guide to the Historical Buildings, pp 15-16) This sequence, of course, is the one that the narrator scoffs at.

Also, we have testimony from Czeslaw Skoraczynski (clerical worker from Lwow, political prisoner, entered KL Lublin in February 1943): “Upon running into the bathhouse barracks we entered directly into a small changing room filled with prisoners from our transport (...) Here, the barbers went to work on us, shaving our heads and all the hairy parts of our bodies. Thus prepared, we went to the showers. Just inside the door there was a small concrete container full of some kind of repulsive disinfectant fluid. Each of us had to get in and immerse ourselves up to our heads in that liquid. The SS men struck us all the while with their canes and tried to hold our heads under. Then we had to line up under the showers and we were doused first with hot water, and then with cold.” (Wisnioch, p 15) Skoraczynski describes, in detail, prisoners bathing in the disinfectant, then showering, like Pawlowska. This testimony also describes the prisoners coming upon the baths, at the southern end of the room, “just inside the door” as prisoners presumably passed from south to north (rather than across the room, as the baths would be encountered passing in the narrator’s claimed direction of north to south). Surely the narrator, an expert who’s after all been to Majdanek, is aware of these testimonies (he showed the cover of the book with these quotations in his the video) - raising the question why he kept them from his viewers.

The narrator might want to straighten out "revisionist" Scott Smith on the sole proper delousing sequence, as Scott Smith has commented approvingly on a 1917 “Scientific American article [that] outlines the procedure for the delousing of the prisoners of war in the German camps: "The prisoners, soldiers, or civilians queue up to be shaved and their hair shorn by a barber. Their bodies are scrubbed with grease and treated with creasol--a strong disinfectant that kills the lice and nits and germs. The creasol is similar to the familiar commercial cleaning product Lysol, and it is far less toxic than phenol or formaldehyde, which might also be used to treat surfaces and equipment during this disinfection process. The Prisoners shower and scrub with soap, shampoo, and then thoroughly rinse with hot water and are toweled dry."

In this regard, relative to Auschwitz’s central sauna, Pressac (A:TAOGC, p 79) shows photographs and quotes from a former Czech prisoner to describe the process prisoners went through in the sauna: "Three views of the shallow bath situated at the entrance to the showers, filled with water and hydrocyanic acid in which the prisoners' body hair was disinfested just before the shower."

Claim 4. the photo of prisoners going into barrack 41 or 42 through the northerly end

The photo in the video, assuming that the narrator is correct that the “vestibule” was constructed as early as spring-summer 1942, does not show prisoners entering the barracks as part of the gassing process and is irrelevant to the gassing procedure at Majdanek for the simple reason that the photo was taken months before gas chambers existed.

The narrator identifies this photo as showing prisoners entering barrack no. 41 or 42 and says that the photo has to have been from summer 1942, before the bunker and pavilion were added at the northern end of the bathhouses (that is, in my view, before the complex was finally adapted for gassing of prisoners). In summer 1942, the gas chambers in the bunker had not yet been built; they were not part of the original design at all. According to Graf & Mattogno, construction on the bathhouses continued through the summer (these barracks were not complete until the fall, they suggest). In fact, the narrator describes the state of the “vestibule” at the time as “ramshackle,” a description that might well fit the barracks themselves. According to a camp construction report, by July the barracks were no more than 40% complete.

There is a testimony about this period which states that the barracks were used for delousing and showering well before their completion. The first barrack was pressed into service during its construction, to process arriving prisoners including Slovakian Jews, in spring 1942. The incoming prisoners were taken to the unfinished barrack to have their hair cut, to be bathed, and for delousing, according to Tadeusz Kosibowicz (a physician and political prisoner from Radom). Kosibowicz described a "skeleton of a building" (having no doors, windows, or flooring) that existed during spring 1942 - ”a few barrels filled with stinking cold water containing lysol" stood in the rubble there for prisoners to bathe in, he said. (Wisnioch, p 13) During this time, before the buildings were completed - and before the gas chambers-bunker was added, it appears that improvised processes were used, whatever the original design.

Claim 5. it’s said that I made false claims, such as that Kranz discusses the original blueprint for the bunkers

Speaking of my SSF posts, the narrator states, “His claim that Majdanek museum director Tomasz Kranz has written that the plans for this facility changed in August-September 1942 is utter rubbish. Kranz does not even mention this document [original plan from March 1942] in his book.” I have searched the SSF thread in vain trying find where I made any claim that Kranz discussed the original blueprint. I’ve not found any instance of my making such a claim. The video has a still displaying part of one of my posts stating generally that Kranz discussed changes to the purpose of and plans for the complex - a post made before the blueprint for bathhouse no. 42 was shown in the thread! What I actually wrote in my very first reply after being shown the blueprint is this: “. . . The provisional blueprint according to M/G is dated March 1942 - that is, it was drawn months before the Germans decided to use the complex for homicide - and thus before the adjustments to the plan for the gas chambers, etc, construction on the gas chambers starting, according to Kranz, in August and running through the fall - and which adjustments surely might have meant changes for the layout and flow planned in the barracks in March, agreed?. . .” The narrator must have overlooked this post.

Conclusion

Hunt, David and the narrator are certain that there was a single flow of prisoners through the Bad und Desinfektion barracks throughout the life of the Majdanek camp. I’ve written at length in the thread about evidence that suggests a number of different selection and gassing procedures – none of them specifying a single north to south flow of prisoners through barrack no 41 - nor, for that matter, do the testimonies specify a single, definitive south to north flow. Some of that evidence is witness testimony; some of the evidence concerns construction time lines and other details of the camp’s history.

In any event, evidence for the path taken by prisoners before the facility was re-worked for murder of prisoners in the bunker to the north is not evidence for how the facility was actually used after the bunker was added. All that the video accomplishes is to add another possible element suggesting that the original design of the facility – before gas chambers were added to it – was as the March blueprint had it, a point not being contested. That is, the video gives an answer to a question that wasn’t asked.

What I’ve argued in the thread is that Hunt, Nessie, and David have not produced definitive evidence for north to south routing of prisoners through barrack no. 41 during the months when gassing operations took place in Majdanek. This video doesn’t provide any of evidence for this routing either: its key claims date from months before the gassing phase. Thus I'm left where I was in December - wondering on what basis Hunt made a firm declaration that the route through the complex was from the north through barrack no. 41 to the south.

Now, I have some questions about this silly video for David I guess, since Hippity-Hop seems allergic to actual debate:

1. In what way does a plan from March 1942 prove how the bathhouses were used from fall 1942 to fall 1943 – after the bunker and gas chambers were added and the purpose of the facility was updated?

2. Why didn’t the narrator mention the undressing rooms to the south of the showers listed for both barracks in the Polish-Soviet commission report – was this “oversight” because the southern location of the undressing rooms undermines his claim that the prisoners must have undressed to the north of the showers?

3. How does the position of the delousing baths within the shower room prove which way prisoners passed through the barrack?

4. In what way does a photo from summer 1942 provide evidence for how the bathhouse and bunker were used starting around October 1942? Why is the protruding “vestibule” discovered by the narrator not described in either the text or on the diagrams of the Polish-Soviet Commission report (August 1944, as reproduced in Graf & Mattogno)?

5. What are the supposed lies in my SSF posts?
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:21 pm

Great post to a tempest in a crackpot, StatMech.


Some thoughts I'd like to add are that the March 1942 blueprint posted in this thread doesn't show any orientation (or designation as to which building, AFAIK) and, essentially, it could have been planned to be built anywhere in the camp. There even is an old sketch where apparently a bath was drawn in approximately the area/row where the Effektenkammer is situated.

This is just musing on my part, but if the direction of the building in the March 1942 blueprint would have been placed as the buildings along that row, what is now considered to be the drawn in northern entrance would actually have been a western one - and from the area considered to have been the Rosengarten.

Also the actual building itself was the basic design used over and over again and the inner layout could be changed around as needed.



But back to your post, I'm sure it will get a response...




Edits: Wording - and one spawns others. Also changed "directions" to "orientation". Thanks, Balsamo. :)
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:39 pm

The video has a still displaying part of one of my posts stating generally that Kranz discussed changes to the purpose of and plans for the complex - a post made before the blueprint for bathhouse no. 42 was shown in the thread! What I actually wrote in my very first reply after being shown the blueprint is this: “. . . The provisional blueprint according to M/G is dated March 1942 - that is, it was drawn months before the Germans decided to use the complex for homicide - and thus before the adjustments to the plan for the gas chambers, etc, construction on the gas chambers starting, according to Kranz, in August and running through the fall - and which adjustments surely might have meant changes for the layout and flow planned in the barracks in March, agreed?. . .” The narrator must have overlooked this post.
A nice mixture of dishonesty, misunderstanding, and misinterpretation on part of the Daft Rodent. He was either scanning the posts roughly or grasping at straws in an attempt to prove his articles of faith.
e Polish-Soviet report, on the other hand, lists an “Undressing Room” in both barrack 41 and 42 to the south of the shower room (e.g., as to barrack no. 42 “The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .” - Graf & Mattogno, p 122), a detail which the narrator preferred keeping to himself, as it undermines his entire argument about the flow of prisoners and his selective use of the commission report to “prove” his case. An “Undressing Room” to the south of the shower room, of course, implies a south to north flow of prisoners.
See above. Nitpicking and selective citing at it's best.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Xcalibur » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:25 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
The video has a still displaying part of one of my posts stating generally that Kranz discussed changes to the purpose of and plans for the complex - a post made before the blueprint for bathhouse no. 42 was shown in the thread! What I actually wrote in my very first reply after being shown the blueprint is this: “. . . The provisional blueprint according to M/G is dated March 1942 - that is, it was drawn months before the Germans decided to use the complex for homicide - and thus before the adjustments to the plan for the gas chambers, etc, construction on the gas chambers starting, according to Kranz, in August and running through the fall - and which adjustments surely might have meant changes for the layout and flow planned in the barracks in March, agreed?. . .” The narrator must have overlooked this post.
A nice mixture of dishonesty, misunderstanding, and misinterpretation on part of the Daft Rodent. He was either scanning the posts roughly or grasping at straws in an attempt to prove his articles of faith.
e Polish-Soviet report, on the other hand, lists an “Undressing Room” in both barrack 41 and 42 to the south of the shower room (e.g., as to barrack no. 42 “The Shower is set up as follows: on the southern side is the Undressing Room . . .” - Graf & Mattogno, p 122), a detail which the narrator preferred keeping to himself, as it undermines his entire argument about the flow of prisoners and his selective use of the commission report to “prove” his case. An “Undressing Room” to the south of the shower room, of course, implies a south to north flow of prisoners.
See above. Nitpicking and selective citing at it's best.

Indeed, the Lesser Rabbit hath proven and revealed with this video not only his low-born status amongst British subjects, but also the deceitful nature of his innate character and his misplaced, self-serving contempt for the intelligence of his audience.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:41 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Several days ago Google search turned up this video about our Majdanek thread and my posts in this thread:
Thank you for this information. I watched the video and read you rebuttal in full. It is annoying that you have to waste your time responding to "one way only" You-tube videos. The video maker should join this forum and enter a proper "two way" discussion.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:44 am

He got smacked pretty hard by Hans in the comment section of a recent HC article. He either lied about what Hans wrote or did not pay attention.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:50 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Several days ago Google search turned up this video about our Majdanek thread and my posts in this thread:
Thank you for this information. I watched the video and read you rebuttal in full. It is annoying that you have to waste your time responding to "one way only" You-tube videos. The video maker should join this forum and enter a proper "two way" discussion.
The narrator is the "Black Rabbit of Inle" arguably the most prominent online denier and the star of the Rodoh circus. He frequently trolls HC articles with abusive and sophistic comments. I have gotten into it with him a couple of times and basically tried to get him to post here, implying he was not man enough. He begged off, citing "biased mods". I then explained to him that if the mod here allowed Hunt to go on for twenty pages spewing racist hateful garbage then he would certainly not run into any trouble. He did not reply..... :roll:

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:14 am

Jeff_36 wrote:The narrator is the "Black Rabbit of Inle" arguably the most prominent online denier and the star of the Rodoh circus.
Thank you for that explanation. I read RODOH but do not post on that forum.

I guess the "Rabbit" theme for the deniers "Little grey rabbit" and "Black rabbit of Inle" is related to myxomatosis, a virus used in Australia to wipe out rabbits.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:52 am

TDR gets his from a 1978 animated movie called watership down. Probably one of the weirdest, trippiest movies out there. The book it was based on was fairly acclaimed, but rather sexist.
Last edited by Jeff_36 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Xcalibur » Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:14 am

>"The narrator is the "Black Rabbit of Inle" arguably the most prominent online denier..."

Which is like saying, "He's the biggest fly on a mountain of {!#%@}.".

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Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by TazKa » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:15 am

I have to disagree with you Xcalibur and Jeff_36. I don't think BROI denies anything. As far as i know and read from what he wrote (probably a year and half i follow the both forums) He is against the propaganda, lies and exaggeration about the Holocaust and it looks like he knows his stuff very well...
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:16 pm

He denies everything. Trust me. He is the lead denier at rodoh.

He knows very little actually. He quotes out of context and spins great yarns about nothing. SM has basically demonstrated that The Daft Rabbit's video is based on the March 1942 blueprints, which are of course irrelevant to any discussion of the KLL extermination period.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Balsamo » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:31 pm

scram,
Some thoughts I'd like to add are that the March 1942 blueprint posted in this thread doesn't show any directions
Actually, on the right you have EING (eingang = entrance) and on the left AUSG (ausgang= exit). My eyes are too bad to read the other words.

Glad to see StatMec becoming a internet video star... :D

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:47 pm

Balsamo wrote:scram,
Some thoughts I'd like to add are that the March 1942 blueprint posted in this thread doesn't show any directions
Actually, on the right you have EING (eingang = entrance) and on the left AUSG (ausgang= exit). My eyes are too bad to read the other words.
I probably should have used "orientation"... I meant an arrow to north or something of the kind. :-P
Glad to see StatMec becoming a internet video star... :D
:lol:
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Xcalibur » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:10 am

TazKa wrote:I have to disagree with you Xcalibur and Jeff_36. I don't think BROI denies anything. As far as i know and read from what he wrote (probably a year and half i follow the both forums) He is against the propaganda, lies and exaggeration about the Holocaust and it looks like he knows his stuff very well...

That you may wish to disagree with any here present is your right.

That you think him knowledgeable is a fair barometer of your own sufficiency or deficiency of knowledge regarding the matter depending on how others see the Rabbit's work. So pray do tell us on which points of "propaganda, lies and exaggeration" you find the Rabbit in accordance with your own views and what research you have personally done which informs those views.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:57 am

Xcalibur wrote:Well, when you stop blathering about soap and wasting people's time over it, perhaps you'll be worthy of a response on Majdanek.
Hello X-
Sounds like you crawled in from another thread on the Ugly Soap Tale...something you Believers have a
hard time coming clean on. You are too dishonest to admit the Tales of Human Soap were propaganda lies
and not dumb enough to believe them.

As to SM telling us how many people he claims were gassed in the shower building at the entrance to the camp,
the crackpot Believer is desperately clinging to an ugly lie created as part of the Soviet 2,000,000 Majdanek deaths.
He seems franticly unhappy that the Soviet propaganda was 1,922,000 people off.
To the point of the "Last Gas Chamber of Majdanek", you Believers have so many sick stupid tales you demand normal
people to believe in that you tie yourselves in logical knots.

Anyway, let's see if SM runs away or tells us about his Majdanek "Backward Gas chamber."

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The Last Gas Chamber at Majdanek

Post by David » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:22 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Xcalibur wrote:Well, when you stop blathering about soap and wasting people's time over it, perhaps you'll be worthy of a response on Majdanek.
LOL he has to work himself off ignore - he can do that only if he stops being a dickhead. That means answering questions he's asked, no more dodging, no more mindless repetition. I don't think he can bring it off.
Jeff_36 wrote: He knows very little actually. He quotes out of context and spins great yarns about nothing. SM has basically demonstrated that The Daft Rabbit's video is based on the March 1942 blueprints, which are of course irrelevant to any discussion of the KLL extermination period.
So we have some ardent Believers in the Last Gas Chamber at Majdanek.

Hey, Jeff- You are insulting Mr. Rabbit for "knowing very little."
Care to tell us HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE GASSED IN THE GAS CHAMBER?"
AND as specific a set of dates for when you claim the building was used to gas people.
Any other information such as the standard number of victims etc. would be most helpful.
Where were the bodies taken after they were gassed?

My view is that when you Believers were telling us that 2,000,000 people were killed at Majdanek
you NEEDED the six Gas Chambers and the huge shooting pits.
You even invented "Aktion Erntefest "...a horrible story of 18,000 killed in a single day.

Since recent revisions have lowered the figures to a horrible but "normal" 78,000 I am wondering why
you are clinging to the stories of gas chambers.

Anyway, you and SM can share your stories with us.
thank you.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Jeff_36 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 3:14 pm

David, those questions have all been answered in this thread.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p439770'
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p439852
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p450139
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p469244

The gas chamber, it's nature, purpose, low death toll, and body disposal have all been accounted for in thus thread at least several times. Did you even read our prior posts?

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Balsamo » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:57 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Balsamo wrote:scram,
Some thoughts I'd like to add are that the March 1942 blueprint posted in this thread doesn't show any directions
Actually, on the right you have EING (eingang = entrance) and on the left AUSG (ausgang= exit). My eyes are too bad to read the other words.
I probably should have used "orientation"... I meant an arrow to north or something of the kind. :-P
Glad to see StatMec becoming a internet video star... :D
:lol:
What a discussion.
I could not follow it, so I basically only read the posts between Nessie and Statmec.

Now, it is a funny situation as for once I know close to nothing about specifics of the Majdanek camp, which allows me to be in the position of a common member of the broad public. I have not watched Hunt's video (one is enough) and i can only guess that it contains many "life saving devices" as he seems to be fond of them, rather useless given the death toll of the camp with or without gas chamber, and i cannot stand his voice anyway, so I have no intention to waste 1 and half hour, because I cannot afford it anyway.

But I must confess that I tend to share most of Nessie feelings about this case, and that after 7 pages of discussion, well I am still confused.
As I don't have the time to participate to any real serious discussion right now, I will only reply to scram.

Orientation is given by the position of the bath tube, south of the shower room. So the plan is correctly orientated.
Now I have read that those plan were only provisional plans, but this is usual in any construction, but does not imply that big changed bad been made, basically because well the building stands there as in the plan. there is nothing that shows that those blueprints have been modified substantially.

It also happened that I own a food processing plant. So Hygienic measures are tough. The main spirit of sanitizing and delousing is to avoid crossing of potentially contaminated - in this case people and cloth - with sterilized ones.
The logic would be that when those inmates enter the camp, they use the first available door, obviously the one in the north, eingang on the plan, and get out to the south sanitized and with new cloths and with their hair shaved, and exit the plant to enter the camp free of lice.

Now the south north model would ruined this logic, as the inmates would enter the camps in their dirty cloth and somehow re-exit the camp through the delousing process and then go back the same way they used when they still had their dirty cloth and hair. I am not sure I am clear on that one, but it would be a hygienic non sense, as that would be a typical forbidden crossing, that is a sanitized product using the same path of a un-sanitized one, ruining the whole process as people could be re-contaminated by taking the same route of contaminated people.
If I watch a photo available on page 3, the process of delousing people would made a circle or an even stranger path.

just my 2 cents

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:44 pm

Balsamo wrote:Orientation is given by the position of the bath tube, south of the shower room. So the plan is correctly orientated.
Hate to be a nitpicker on this but we "know" that only because the actual/current layout seems to have one there. Someone said that blueprint pertained to bath/building 42. The blueprint itself has no such description, AFAIK, nor does it show in what direction the building drawn itself was oriented. Blueprints/drafts usually show somewhere where North is. Most plans/maps/blueprints also are drawn with north to the upper part/half of the pages (look, for example, at the blueprints* and locations of A-B Kremas IV and V. I think they are so oriented. Plz, correct me if I'm wrong.)

There is no way to discern any of such here since, AFAIK, all that information is missing - perhaps the image is cropped from a larger page, or it's on a page that accompanied others - but if, hypothetically, the upper part of the page were to denote a northerly direction as the orientation of the text, hypothetically, could imply, what we assume to be north and south could be east and west.


* more images: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschw ... nails.html
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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by Balsamo » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:17 pm

Hi scram,

I don't know this detail, but I have built 3 houses in the last 7 years or so, and indeed I have put the orientation, but only on one of the plan, which was to locate the house on the land, and logically its orientation, but never on the blueprints of the structure of the house.
I am new, very new in this discussion, so forgive my naiveté, but the building is still there, right? And the bath is located south, or am I wrong?

I think I saw one pic in a discussion about Sturdy Colls...the picture was heading north to the undressing room with the bath on the rear, pretending showing ( in the description of the pics) the gas chamber ( or the direction of it), and the gas chamber was north. In addition, as the Black Rabbit of Inlé mentioned that it was the wrong way, I deducted that the bath were indeed south from the northern entrance, which gives a clue of the orientation of the blueprint.

As I added, it would also be the logical thing, that is to go North to South, and not the opposite, the main camp being south and the entrance North.
But I understand what you meant, now :D

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:49 pm

Balsamo wrote:As I added, it would also be the logical thing, that is to go North to South, and not the opposite, the main camp being south and the entrance North.
As would be an entrance from what is commonly known as the "Rosengarten" location. Without any directions given, the orientation could be anything (as you mentioned, "provisional". Apparently they were in the planning phase). However, if the top of the page actually were north (which we can't ascertain), the blueprint would then be showing an eastern entrance.

But I understand what you meant, now :D
That's all that mattered. Thanks!
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42 deaths a day-

Post by David » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:42 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:David, those questions have all been answered in this thread.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p439770'
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p439852
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p450139
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p469244

The gas chamber, it's nature, purpose, low death toll, and body disposal have all been accounted for in thus thread at least several times. Did you even read our prior posts?
Jeff, your evasions are noted but you miss the point.
You need to weight the logic of Bath Building 1 being a "gas chamber" against the confused propaganda Tales that SM has regurgitated.
" During its existence Majdanek had seven gas chambers, two wooden gallows, a small crematorium and, from 1943, a larger crematorium.
http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks ... dJn2Vxa_8s


1. Take body disposal. The large crematoria were clear across camp from Bath Building 1. Does that make sense? Obviously not
yet SM is spreading stories like 'Hauptscharführer Klein instructed Muhsfeldt on operation of the overns; witnesses (survivor Wanda Bialas, for example) describe observing from the nearby laundry corpses arriving at the crematorium on carts, as described upthread; according to Muhsfeldt's testimony, "With round-the-clock operation, each oven could incinerate about 100 bodies per day," not a number that could keep up with the camp's production of dead bodies


2. Bath Building 1 was at the entrance to the Camp and right off the Lublin highway...makes perfect sense as a site for admitting detainees into
the Camp and totally ridiculous for a "gas chamber."
Here is a Map....
http://www.theholocaustexplained.org/ks ... dJn2Vxa_8s

2 B. While you are looking at it, please note that it is from a Believer site that still preaches that
"The camp opened in September 1941, initially for Soviet prisoners of war, and was liberated by the Soviet Army in July 1944. During this time approximately 360,000 victims died or were murdered at Majdanek, 120,000 of them Jews.
Any Believers in this forum bothered to correct that gross exaggeration? Doubt it

3. What would have been the capacity of Bath Building 1 as a "Gas Chamber?"
Size of alleged gas chamber rooms- All this Believer squirming and screeching is confusing.
Why convert the useful bath and shower building into a "gas chamber" if no one was going to be killed in it?
Building 41 was great as a shower for large numbers of people....something that was needed at Majdanek.

so how many people could have been gassed in it?

We need to compare the capacity of the alleged gas chamber with what we know is the REAL Majdanek Death Toll...78,000.

But, take this crazed sick Tale SM is preaching...
The "big day" and big logistical nightmare at Majdanek came 3 November 1943, when 18,400 Jews were shot behind Field V. People attempting escape. Gunfire. Screams. Music playing from loudspeakers to drown out the noise. Prisoners hauled from the airfield to the killing sites. Police and SS Wiking division firing squads blasting away. Bodies shoved into trenches. A semi-public spectacle with major corpse-disposal problems - on a much larger scale than the regular gassings. Let me share with you one remark from Silberklang's discussion of this, p 406:
During the moments that the records were changed to play more music, the rat-a-tat of the shooting could be heard by the other Majdanek prisoners and by Poles in Lublin (many of whom watched the scene from their rooftops.


So, if 18,400 inmates were shot in one day, then the remaining "Death Toll" for 4 years was 60,000!

Do the numbers...it works out to 42 deaths at Majdanek per day. If you ignore the fantastic Tale of Aktion Erntefest
then the daily death rate is 55!

Would have a 1,000 person a day "gas chamber" fit into the REALITY of the KNOWN deaths?
Obviously not.

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Re: Hunts Majdanek film.

Post by David » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:03 am

scrmbldggs wrote: As would be an entrance from what is commonly known as the "Rosengarten" location. Without any directions given, the orientation could be anything (as you mentioned, "provisional". Apparently they were in the planning phase). However, if the top of the page actually were north (which we can't ascertain), the blueprint would then be showing an eastern entrance.

The building were built according to the plans. The entrance was on the North side on both Bath 1 and Bath 2.