New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Crematoria

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New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Crematoria

Post by Hans » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:52 pm

Recall that numerous evidence supports that the gas pellets were introduced into the gas chambers of crematoria 2 and 3 in Auschwitz-Birkenau via four openings in the roof leading into wire mesh columns. At least 15 witnesses have specifically testified that the gas columns consisted of perforated metal/wire mesh:
Spoiler:
Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höß described it was “fenced around with a grating”, SS investigator Konrad Morgen remembered it as “grilled shaft” and the SS officer Josef Erber explained it consisted of “four iron bars...encased by steel wire mesh".

The Polish prisoner Michal Kula described them as "columns of wire netting" made of "3 mm iron wire stretched over angle irons", the Soviet prisoner Ananij Petko and Vladimir Pegov as "lattice-work columns", the Jewish prisoner Henryk Tauber as “made of grills of thick steel wire”, the Jewish prisoner Paul Bendel as "mesh tubes", the Jewish prisoner Miklos Nyszli as "sheet-iron pipes, the sides of which contained many perforations", the Jewish prisoner Filip Müller as "hollow columns...surrounded by perforated sheet", the Jewish prisoner Josef Sackar as "pillars with cages around them", the Jewish prisoner Shaul Chasan as "latticework shaft...made of perforated metal", the Jewish prisoner Yehuda Bacon as "steel bars surrounded by thick fence wire", the prisoner Michel Scheckter as "latticework chimney-like structures" and the Jewish prisoner David Olere draw them as four bars surrounded by wire mesh.
And indeed, according to documents cited by Carlo Mattogno in Auschwitz - The Case for Sanity p. 134-135, for crematorium 2 the construction office seems to have ordered "four pieces complete devices" of the following:
ZBL crematorium II BW 30: Object: 1 pc. suspension device as per sketch, - 1 pc. angle-iron guide-rail as per sketch - 1 pc. framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage as per sketch. Material requirements to be calculated and transmitted immediately. Delivery: begin and finish immediately. Bauleitung order no. 78 dated 11.3.43. / Expenses to be coordinated with administration KL. / Execution by Mirek, Dyntar. Finished: 25.3.43.
And the following for crematorium 3:
Crematorium III. BW 30a: Object: 4 pcs. suspension devices as per sketch, – 4 pcs. angle-iron guide-rail as per sketch, – 1 pc. framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage as per sketch. Make exactly like already done before with order of 11.3.43. Sketch now available at detainee metal workshop. Delivery: begin and finish immediately. / Expenses to be coordinated with administration KL Au. / Bauleitung order no. 161 dated 9.4.43. / Execution by Mirek, Dyntar. Finished: 28.4.43.
Interestingly, the bill for these devices was directly paid by the camp administration - unlike other orders for the crematoria and their equipment.

The most reasonable explanation is that the "framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage" was the actual wire mesh column and was mounted with the "suspension device" at the roof. The exact function of "angle-iron guide-rail" still needs to be figured out.

That only one wire mesh frame work was ordered for crematorium 3 (but four of the other two items) may be a typo (either by Mattogno or in the file he used), since equal number of items were ordered for crematorium 2.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:53 pm

Aw geez, not the Kula columns. So Hans, Zyklon B has an outgassing time of hours. It supposedly only took minutes to kill the people in the gas chamber. What did the Germans do with all of the still outgassing Zyklon? Just give it the old heave ho? What did they do?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:34 am

Turnagain wrote:What did the Germans do with all of the still outgassing Zyklon? Just give it the old heave ho? What did they do?
I don't think Hoess cared about the Jewish slave workers who died.

12 August 1942
Auschwitz Concentration Camp
Kommandantur
Special Order

A case of indisposition with slight symptoms of poisoning by hydrocyanic acid gas which occurred today makes it necessary to warn all those participating in the gassings and all other SS members that in particular on opening rooms used for gassing SS not wearing masks must wait at least five hours and keep a distance of at least 15 metres from the chamber. In addition, particular attention should be paid to the wind direction.

The gas being used at present contains less odorous warning agent and is therefore especially dangerous.

The SS garrison doctor declines all responsibility for any accident that should occur in the case when these directives have not been complied with by SS members.

Signed: Hoess
SS Lieutenant-Colonel and Commandant"


Even stranger, Hoess issued this letter before you claim he was tortured to confess to mass executions. Can you explain this massive hole in holocaust denier's bizarre claim?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:07 am

Easy to explain. There were lots of gas chambers at Auschwitz/Berkenau, just no homicidal gas chambers. You can tell which buildings were gas chambers by the blue color of the walls. The Germans even had a gas chamber that would gas trains. The US had gas chambers for trains too. Had them down on the border of Texas and Mexico. What's your point?

Hoess didn't care if Jewish workers died? What the hell does that mean? Are you saying that the Germans simply dumped batches of outgassing cyanide willy nilly around the camp?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:11 am

Turnagain wrote:Easy to explain. What's your point?
Would you like me to explain it to you using hand puppets?

Holocaust deniers claim Hoess was tortured in 1945 to force him to say there was gas chambers. Here is a 1942 letter from Hoess talking about gas chambers.
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:21 am

Really? You're claiming that Hoess wrote a letter about homicidal gas chambers? My, fancy that. Care to show us the unaltered original?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:42 am

Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote:Really?
Yes Really :D
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Care to show us the unaltered original?
Now let me think. Should I teach you how to look things up and stop faking stories
:D
Turnagain the holocaust denier wrote:Geezus H, can't you believers manage even the most rudimentary research on your own?
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: They didn't use petrol at Treblinka
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the Nuremberg trials
Mary, can you look this up for your junior holocaust denier buddy. He's struggling at the moment.
:D

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:57 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote:Really?
Yes Really Yes I really had the letter but my dog ate it so I can't show it to you. Hey, this is fun. Just like being a teenager again :D
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Care to show us the unaltered original?
Now let me think. How am I going to dodge those questions about the holyhoax that I'm too dumb to answer.
:D
Turnagain the holocaust denier wrote:Geezus H, can't you believers manage even the most rudimentary research on your own?
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: They didn't use petrol at Treblinka
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the Nuremberg trials
Mary, can you look this up for your junior holocaust denier buddy. He's got me over a barrel and I don't have a thing to say.
:D
So, you have the letter but you just don't want to show it. How original. Did the dog eat your homework, too? Nope, they didn't use petrol as a cremation fuel. Here's a quote about your favorite cremation expert, Herbert Floss.
"He refused gasoline and sent for wood. His demonstration was going to be perfect. The wood was arranged under the grill of the pyre in little piles which resembled camp fires. The moment of truth had come. He was solemnly handed a box of matches. He bent down, lit the first fire, then the others..." I thought that Floss was your buddy. So, did you watch the dragline videos? So how did those mass graves get dug since the little dragline(s) couldn't do it? Did you watch how a clamshell bucket works? Care to explain how the bodies were picked up by their arms and legs after being cut to pieces by the bucket closing? Care to explain how that little bucket picked up 3000 cadavers at a time?

You need to get past your adolescence before you attempt a conversation with adults. BTW, did you find Wiernik's claim about 500 people fitting into the 5x5 gas chambers? It's in chapter 5, paragraph 9 of "A Year in Treblinka." Did you look for it? Do you still claim that he's lying? How was gravity and the angle of repose for excavated material overcome at Treblinka? Got any ideas how to overcome gravity, Matty?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by David » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:12 am

Hans wrote:At least 15 witnesses have specifically testified that the gas columns consisted of perforated metal/wire mesh:
Spoiler:
Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höß described it was “fenced around with a grating”, SS investigator Konrad Morgen remembered it as “grilled shaft” and the SS officer Josef Erber explained it consisted of “four iron bars...encased by steel wire mesh".

The Polish prisoner Michal Kula described them as "columns of wire netting" made of "3 mm iron wire stretched over angle irons", the Soviet prisoner Ananij Petko and Vladimir Pegov as "lattice-work columns", the Jewish prisoner Henryk Tauber as “made of grills of thick steel wire”, the Jewish prisoner Paul Bendel as "mesh tubes", the Jewish prisoner Miklos Nyszli as "sheet-iron pipes, the sides of which contained many perforations", the Jewish prisoner Filip Müller as "hollow columns...surrounded by perforated sheet", the Jewish prisoner Josef Sackar as "pillars with cages around them", the Jewish prisoner Shaul Chasan as "latticework shaft...made of perforated metal", the Jewish prisoner Yehuda Bacon as "steel bars surrounded by thick fence wire", the prisoner Michel Scheckter as "latticework chimney-like structures" and the Jewish prisoner David Olere draw them as four bars surrounded by wire mesh.
And indeed, according to documents cited by Carlo Mattogno in Auschwitz - The Case for Sanity p. 134-135, for crematorium 2 the construction office seems to have ordered "four pieces complete devices" of the following:
ZBL crematorium II BW 30: Object: 1 pc. suspension device as per sketch, - 1 pc. angle-iron guide-rail as per sketch - 1 pc. framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage as per sketch. Material requirements to be calculated and transmitted immediately. Delivery: begin and finish immediately. Bauleitung order no. 78 dated 11.3.43. / Expenses to be coordinated with administration KL. / Execution by Mirek, Dyntar. Finished: 25.3.43.
And the following for crematorium 3:
Crematorium III. BW 30a: Object: 4 pcs. suspension devices as per sketch, – 4 pcs. angle-iron guide-rail as per sketch, – 1 pc. framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage as per sketch. Make exactly like already done before with order of 11.3.43. Sketch now available at detainee metal workshop. Delivery: begin and finish immediately. / Expenses to be coordinated with administration KL Au. / Bauleitung order no. 161 dated 9.4.43. / Execution by Mirek, Dyntar. Finished: 28.4.43.
Interestingly, the bill for these devices was directly paid by the camp administration - unlike other orders for the crematoria and their equipment.

The most reasonable explanation is that the "framework of narrow-gauge rail with wire-mesh cage" was the actual wire mesh column and was mounted with the "suspension device" at the roof. The exact function of "angle-iron guide-rail" still needs to be figured out.

That only one wire mesh frame work was ordered for crematorium 3 (but four of the other two items) may be a typo (either by Mattogno or in the file he used), since equal number of items were ordered for crematorium 2.
Then you must be telling us that Hoess, Josef Sackar, Filip Müller, and Michel Scheckter are wrong in their description?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:16 am

Turnagain wrote:So, you have the letter but you just don't want to show it.
I'm waiting for you to tell me what day Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the IMT. Did you forget again? ( That's normally David's problem)
Turnagain three days ago wrote: Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the Nuremberg trials
Early Alzheimer's?
Turnagain wrote:Nope, they didn't use petrol as a cremation fuel.
Wiernik directly says the Germans did. SS-Scharführer Heinrich Matthes confirms they continued to use petrol. Did you forget the quote and citation for Matthes? (That's David's trick, pretending to forget. You really shouldn't copy David's tricks. David has an IQ of 70.)

SS-Scharführer Heinrich Matthes / Treblinka
An SS-Oberscharführer or Hauptscharführer Floss arrived at this time [November 1942], who, so I presume, must previously have been in another camp. He then had the installation built for burning the corpses. The incineration was carried out by placing railroad rails on blocks of concrete. The corpses were then piled up on these rails. Brush wood was placed under the rails. The wood was drenched with gasoline. Not only the newly obtained corpses were burnt in this way, but also those exhumed from the ditches

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Zyclon at Auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:22 am

Turnagain wrote:Easy to explain. There were lots of gas chambers at Auschwitz/Berkenau, just no homicidal gas chambers. You can tell which buildings were gas chambers by the blue color of the walls. The Germans even had a gas chamber that would gas trains. The US had gas chambers for trains too. Had them down on the border of Texas and Mexico. What's your point?

Hoess didn't care if Jewish workers died? What the hell does that mean? Are you saying that the Germans simply dumped batches of outgassing cyanide willy nilly around the camp?
Excellent point, Turnagain, although probably lost on poor Crazy Matty. In fact, Zyclon was used regularly to fumigate buildings as well as clothes.
The use of Zyclon as a life saving measure is outlined by Pressac in
Technique and Operation-
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0015.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; et seq.
Pressac writes,"Ignorance and confusion were fueled by the publication after the war of books such as Camps de concentration! Konzentrationslager by Eugène Aroneau [Office Français d'Edition 1946; Arbeitsgemeinschaft Das Licht, undated in German], which can now be considered a historical monstrosity....
Confusion reinforced by the fact that Zyklon-B was, above all, the regulation pest control agent used by the Wehrmacht, used to delouse effects and combat insects and rodents in premises. During the trials that were held after the war, the tons of Zyklon-B ordered by the camps were attributed to homicidal use without any verification."

Crazy Matty still ignorantly parrots the post-War propaganda.


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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by David » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:28 am

Matthew wrote:I'm waiting for you to tell me what day Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the IMT. Did you forget again? ( That's normally David's problem)
{snip rest of Matty's crazy drivel]

Matty, you are off topic, off thread, and off on your normal crazy
rant. The simple fact is that you made a fool of yourself (again) with your
ignorant braying about zyclon poisoning. If you had any decency you would simply
thank Turnagain for trying to educate you.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Cerdic » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:39 am

Image

Here it is.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:53 am

Turnagain wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote:Really?
Yes Really Yes I really had the letter but my dog ate it so I can't show it to you. Hey, this is fun. Just like being a teenager again :D
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Care to show us the unaltered original?
Now let me think. How am I going to dodge those questions about the holyhoax that I'm too dumb to answer.
:D
Turnagain the holocaust denier wrote:Geezus H, can't you believers manage even the most rudimentary research on your own?
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: They didn't use petrol at Treblinka
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the Nuremberg trials
Mary, can you look this up for your junior holocaust denier buddy. He's got me over a barrel and I don't have a thing to say.
:D
So, you have the letter but you just don't want to show it. How original. Did the dog eat your homework, too? Nope, they didn't use petrol as a cremation fuel. Here's a quote about your favorite cremation expert, Herbert Floss.
"He refused gasoline and sent for wood. His demonstration was going to be perfect. The wood was arranged under the grill of the pyre in little piles which resembled camp fires. The moment of truth had come. He was solemnly handed a box of matches. He bent down, lit the first fire, then the others..." I thought that Floss was your buddy. So, did you watch the dragline videos? So how did those mass graves get dug since the little dragline(s) couldn't do it? Did you watch how a clamshell bucket works? Care to explain how the bodies were picked up by their arms and legs after being cut to pieces by the bucket closing? Care to explain how that little bucket picked up 3000 cadavers at a time?

You need to get past your adolescence before you attempt a conversation with adults. BTW, did you find Wiernik's claim about 500 people fitting into the 5x5 gas chambers? It's in chapter 5, paragraph 9 of "A Year in Treblinka." Did you look for it? Do you still claim that he's lying? How was gravity and the angle of repose for excavated material overcome at Treblinka? Got any ideas how to overcome gravity, Matty?
Monomania is indeed hard to hide...this is about introduction columns not some obsessive chimp slobber from Greg Gerdes.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:02 am

David wrote:
Matthew wrote:I'm waiting for you to tell me what day Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the IMT. Did you forget again? ( That's normally David's problem)
{snip rest of Matty's crazy drivel]

Matty, you are off topic, off thread, and off on your normal crazy
rant. The simple fact is that you made a fool of yourself (again) with your
ignorant braying about zyclon poisoning. If you had any decency you would simply
thank Turnagain for trying to educate you.
I did say that Lukaszkiewicz testified at one of the war crimes tribunals but truly don't remember my source. In any event, I don't understand the importance of whether or not Lukaszkiewicz gave sworn testimony at the post war kangaroo courts. Even our chief justice of the SCOTUS during that time called those tribunals nothing but a high grade lynching. Oh well. It apparently trips little Matty's trigger.

At any rate, both Germany and the US had 'gas chambers' to fumigate trains. They both used Zyklon-B. The actual warning letter from Hoess was no doubt written as a result of the wartime shortage of the odorizing agent for the cyanide. Of course the hoaxers claim that the (evil) Germans deliberately removed the odorizing agent as a ruse to make it 'easier' or 'sneakier' to gas Jews (or some such nonsense).

I still can't understand how anyone can believe that the (evil) Germans would open one or more containers of Zyklon-B, pour it into the Kula columns, let it outgas long enough to kill everyone in the "gas chamber" then withdraw the still outgassing cyanide and...do what with it? Even if there were a viable means of disposal why would the (evil) Germans just throw away a desperately needed pesticide and disinfestation agent? It simply doesn't make any sense. Well, the whole damned holyhoax fairy tale doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Zyclon at Auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:07 am

Turnagain wrote:Easy to explain. There were lots of gas chambers at Auschwitz/Berkenau, just no homicidal gas chambers. You can tell which buildings were gas chambers by the blue color of the walls
....or read the confession of the C.O. Hoess and eyewitness statements about gassing humans.
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: The Germans even had a gas chamber that would gas trains.
And this was at Auschwitz was it? Do you need a map? :D

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote:Excellent point, Turnagain, although probably lost on poor Crazy Matty.
David, the insane holocaust denier last year wrote: There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho. Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average"
David? Can you explain to Turnagain how the soviet ammunition at Treblinka II was processed? Where did these 5,000 workers sleep?

(Sound Effect: David, the holocaust denier, running away very quickly)
David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Crazy Matty still ignorantly parrots the post-War propaganda.
....and you got your information about Soviet munitions at Treblinka II from?????????

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:14 am

Matthew wrote:I'm waiting for you to tell me what day Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the IMT. Did you forget again? ( That's normally David's problem)
David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Matty, you are off topic
David? It is Turnagain who made this post in the first place.

You're not very bright are you David? You change my posts to pink to impress homophobic Eric Hunt, because that's all you can do.
:D

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:21 am

Turnagain wrote: I did say that Lukaszkiewicz testified at one of the war crimes tribunals but truly don't remember my source.
It's the same source that told you no petrol was used at cremations at Treblinka II. It's called fabricating evidence. David does it all the time, just like you.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Lukaszkiewicz says 6,000
David can't remember his source either.......funny about holocaust deniers and bad memories.....
Turnagain wrote:In any event, I don't understand..........
Let's leave you two deniers contemplating your next fabrications......
:D

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:30 am

Hey, Matty, who told you that gravity didn't have to work at Treblinka? Why do you believe that? Who told you that the pitiful little antique dragline(s) at Treblinka were actually magic draglines? Why do you believe that? Yeah, you tell us, Matty. While you're at it, tell us what the (evil) Germans did with all that out gassing Zyklon-B after the people in the gas chamber were dead? Did they just dump it? How did the (evil) Germans keep it from killing other people? Did they sack it up and ship it off to the railroad gas chambers? What did they do with it, Matty?

BTW, Matty, it was Wiernik who said that trying to cremate cadavers with gasoline was a bust and didn't work. Are you calling him a liar about that, too? You know, like you said that he lied about how many people were pushed into the gas chambers.
Last edited by Turnagain on Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote:Really?
Yes Really :D
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Care to show us the unaltered original?
Now let me think. Should I teach you how to look things up and stop faking stories
:D
Turnagain the holocaust denier wrote:Geezus H, can't you believers manage even the most rudimentary research on your own?
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: They didn't use petrol at Treblinka
Turnagain, the holocaust denier wrote: Lukaszkiewicz gave testimony at the Nuremberg trials
Mary, can you look this up for your junior holocaust denier buddy. He's struggling at the moment.
:D
Struggling? He's kicking your judeophobic butt to the left and to the right.
Thanks from:
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:38 am

Turnagain wrote:Hey, Matty, who told you that gravity didn't have to work at Treblinka?
No one. Where did I say that? Are you lying again. tsk tsk tsk....

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:45 am

Say, Mary, have you ever heard of an even remotely reasonable explanation for what the Germans did with the Zyklon-B from the Kula columns while the alleged gas chambers were being emptied? There were supposedly 2000 or so victims in every batch and the only way to move them was with that little man-lift that could only handle 4 or 5 cadavers at a time so they had to do something with it.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:46 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Struggling? He's kicking your judeophobic butt to the left and to the right.
Mary. there is no such word as judeophobic. When you leave school you should buy a dictionary.

The only arses getting kicked here are the comedy team of holocaust deniers.
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:50 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Turnagain wrote:Hey, Matty, who told you that gravity didn't have to work at Treblinka?
No one. Where did I say that? Are you lying again. tsk tsk tsk....
Geez, Matty, are you saying that poor old Yankel is lying again? His model plainly shows that gravity and the angle of repose for the stockpile aren't working? Don't you believe that?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: Struggling? He's kicking your judeophobic butt to the left and to the right.
Mary. there is no such word as judeophobic. When you leave school you should buy a dictionary.

The only arses getting kicked here are the comedy team of holocaust deniers.
The four Stooges.jpg
Well, Matty, when you're not so busy "kicking arse" how about telling us what the (evil) Germans did with all that leftover Zyklon-B? They had to do something with it, you know. Have any ideas?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:11 am

Yes I have one, put you and your stupid questions on ignore and that's one less obnoxious Holocaust denier to read...We established a long time ago that none of you use history for anything but to rehabilitate Nazism, hence this sarcastic "evil" Germans BS. You want to provide an online alibi for Hitler's Germany. You do this by provoking people into responding to your BS interminable rubbish games. But what really lies behind all this tedious dehumanising content in online youtube and forum crap about being in thrall to Scientific methods and getting SS angels to dance on pinheads is this. Real trolling snarling pinheads like you you have only ever been interested in denying the Holocaust anyway possible. That's the truth of it. You and your friends contribute nothing toward the further understanding of it, nothing but BS, lies and conjecture dressed up as half worked out responses and theories..

Bugging people to answer stupid questions all the time working from your half arsed thick premiss that there was no Holocaust does not represent any sort of crystallisation of a proper grasp of the analysis of history worth while in the understanding of. But most damning of all, one cannot "help you out," to understand anything as you have passed the point where anyone could reach out to help you out with anything in this at all but in the assent to continue this farcical BS you find in the content of the posts made by your denier friends.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:59 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Yes I have one, put you and your stupid questions on ignore and that's one less obnoxious Holocaust denier to read...We established a long time ago that none of you use history for anything but to rehabilitate Nazism, hence this sarcastic "evil" Germans BS. You want to provide an online alibi for Hitler's Germany. You do this by provoking people into responding to your BS interminable rubbish games. But what really lies behind all this tedious dehumanising content in online youtube and forum crap about being in thrall to Scientific methods and getting SS angels to dance on pinheads is this. Real trolling snarling pinheads like you you have only ever been interested in denying the Holocaust anyway possible. That's the truth of it. You and your friends contribute nothing toward the further understanding of it, nothing but BS, lies and conjecture dressed up as half worked out responses and theories..

Bugging people to answer stupid questions all the time working from your half arsed thick premiss that there was no Holocaust does not represent any sort of crystallisation of a proper grasp of the analysis of history worth while in the understanding of. But most damning of all, one cannot "help you out," to understand anything as you have passed the point where anyone could reach out to help you out with anything in this at all but in the assent to continue this farcical BS you find in the content of the posts made by your denier friends.
Ooh, you sound really angry, Darren. Gee, I just asked some questions. You know, just curious about a few practicalities, well, a few impossibilities, about your holyhoax. Sorry, Darren, but you can jump up and down and stamp your little feetsies and call it 'farcical BS' all you want but bottom line, you won't answer any questions because you CAN'T. There is NO answer to the perfectly reasonable question of what happened to the leftover Zyklon-B? It allegedly took only too a few minutes to kill everyone in the gas chamber so it would continue to out gas cyanide for hours. It was an EXTREMELY toxic material and couldn't just be thrown into the nearest trashcan. That is "farcical BS?" I call horse frocky.

Yankel Wiernik, the eyewitness, claimed that the mass graves were excavated and the material stockpiled with that pitiful little dragline(s). On it's face, that is so obviously impossible that it can't even be considered. "Farcical BS?" No, it's just more holyhoax horse frocky. The notion that you're "outraged" by anyone who dares to question any facet of your multi billion dollar extortion is a matter of utter indifference to me. Get over it Like the heliocentric astronomers of the 16th century who overcame church dogma, the revisionists will eventually expose your hoax.

BTW, you misspelled 'premise' and ended the sentence with a preposition. Illiterate dunce.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:19 am

You haven't managed yet Gerdes to expose any hoax, I do not have possession of any hoax, I was not around when I think your apparent visible to you hoax was being formed. Its actually really your hoax though Greg, not mine. You and your denier chums. Lets have a review of what have you achieved, pretty much the dislike of a lot of people I think - that's about it really oh and a fearsome reputation for asking stupid questions and becoming weirdly obsessed over small pieces of information and terms. Currently its, "horse frocky," "Wiernik," and um excavators. Where has the questionnaire gone and the power point presentation?

None of this deals in a wider sense with the panorama of history and all of which are just mean little Nazi side issues of no interest to anyone but opportunistic lunatics. Why should anyone have all the answers Greg? You clowns certainly don't ever give proper answers to questions evoking the wider vistas, I've seen your performance, never dealing with all the evidence. Deniers are terrified of wider vistas. If you were interested in history you might get some good responses but you aren't in the slightest interested in it.

So I think it rich that you want still more answers. Like some insatiable addict. For instance interestingly enough Wiernik arrives at Treblinka around the end of Eberl's command. And we all know what conditions under Dr Eberl were like don't we, Mr historian of backhoe operations? Except you have no interest in history, so why bother with you really? That's the real question. Why Bother?
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Balsamo » Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:51 pm

Turnagain wrote:Easy to explain. There were lots of gas chambers at Auschwitz/Berkenau, just no homicidal gas chambers. You can tell which buildings were gas chambers by the blue color of the walls. The Germans even had a gas chamber that would gas trains. The US had gas chambers for trains too. Had them down on the border of Texas and Mexico. What's your point?

Hoess didn't care if Jewish workers died? What the hell does that mean? Are you saying that the Germans simply dumped batches of outgassing cyanide willy nilly around the camp?

Is that your explanation of the letter posted by Cerdic?
So in your opinion, it was the SS who were in charge of delousing clothes and mattresses?
And of course, there were so dumb that by 1942 they were still not able to handle the delousing process safely!
Or maybe they only started to delouse two years after recieving their first prisoners...Does that make sense to you?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:02 pm

By the way Greg Gerdes, premises are entirely different to a premiss. And I'm like, I am not impressed that Jed, "Greg Gerdes" Clampett knows what a proposition is.

I had a proposition for you Greg yes it was one that also ended in a proposition. A well known phrase...but I've bowdlerised it for you.

_ surf off

to this site:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/premiss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:42 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Turnagain wrote:Easy to explain. There were lots of gas chambers at Auschwitz/Berkenau, just no homicidal gas chambers. You can tell which buildings were gas chambers by the blue color of the walls. The Germans even had a gas chamber that would gas trains. The US had gas chambers for trains too. Had them down on the border of Texas and Mexico. What's your point?

Hoess didn't care if Jewish workers died? What the hell does that mean? Are you saying that the Germans simply dumped batches of outgassing cyanide willy nilly around the camp?

Is that your explanation of the letter posted by Cerdic?
So in your opinion, it was the SS who were in charge of delousing clothes and mattresses?
And of course, there were so dumb that by 1942 they were still not able to handle the delousing process safely!
Or maybe they only started to delouse two years after recieving their first prisoners...Does that make sense to you?
It took trained personnel to handle a substance as toxic as Zyklon-B so are you saying that the (evil) Germans simply picked inmates at random to perform the delousing operations? Are you saying that it's impossible for accidents to happen when people, even trained personnel, are working with highly toxic materials? Well, I suppose that would make sense to you hoaxers since the (evil) Germans were just going to gas the prisoners anyway. All four million of them. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot, that holyhoax lie is no longer "operable."
Oh well, we now have an official memo addressing safety issues for personnel handling a dangerous material to prove that, if not four million, at least a whole bunch of people were murdered with a pesticide at Auschwitz. Hell, it says right in the letter that the (evil) German gassers had to be careful with the Zyklon-B when they were gassing Jews. Uh-huh, they had to be careful until the Jews were dead and then they took it out of the Kula columns and pitched it...well...somewhere.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Balsamo » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:36 pm

So if i understand you well,
- Hoess chose his trained personnel among the SS which thus was responsable for the delousing of the camp...Is that what you are saying?

If yes
Those specially trained SS-men - if trained they should have constituted a team of specialists - were by 1942 not aware that they should wear gas masks, although Zyklon B when used for delousing is used in very large and dangerous quantity. And that is in the third year of the camp?
And this sounds logic to you?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:53 pm

Didn't you read the effing memo? Hoess was warning to take more care with the Zyklon-B due to the wartime shortage of odorizing agent and the increased risk in handling it. There had also been some near fatal accidents. That leads to a real question. What happened to the leftover Zyklon-B after it was extracted from the gas chambers? The stuff outgasses cyanide for hours so how did they dispose of all that lethally toxic waste? Did the (evil) Germans recycle it? If so, how did they do that? Have any answers, Balsamo?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Balsamo » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:04 am

It was established that the quanity of Zyklon B to kill a concentration of humans was minimal compared to what was needed to kill lice.
Now if we forget the homicide gaz chamber for a minute, we still have a procedure that should have been usual for three years. And the zyklon necessary to delouse and kill lice is much more important and therefore OBVIOUSLY dangerous. " The SS staff - formed to delouse the inmates clothes and mattresses " should have been aware of the job, with or without a smell, they should have known that gas mask was an vital obligation.

Every workers working on an oil rafinery knows that you cannot/should not smoke...they don't need a memo.
On the other hand, people who are filling their tank at a gas station sometimes are stupid enough to smoke.

A memo dated August 1942 would thus more logically have been addressed to the second cathegory of people, that is SS men who were not used to handle huge quantity of a known lethal product, handling only a small quantity of this product and therefore unaware of the consequences of their exposition.

What i am expecting from you is to explain the logic of the memo according to YOUR theory which is that we are dealing with a delousing kammer handled by SS men.

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:06 am

Balsamo wrote:Those specially trained SS-men - if trained they should have constituted a team of specialists - were by 1942 not aware that they should wear gas masks, although Zyklon B when used for delousing is used in very large and dangerous quantity. And that is in the third year of the camp? And this sounds logic to you?
Turnagain makes no sense at all. Every German soldier (The Heer & Waffen SS) was issued and trained to use a M30/M38 gas mask at basic training. Germans were the only soldiers who all carried gas masks in their full field kit.
gasmask German 1.jpg
Standard Kit Heer.jpg
.
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:26 am

Cerdic wrote:Image

Here it is.
This letter sounds like sounds like it pertains to delousing prisoners clothing, not exterminating Jews. For one thing, it references gassing openly. The Germans were very careful to not refer to gassing Jews openly like that. They always spoke in euphemism.

Also, it's a warning to SS personnel about the importance of safety procedures. When gassing Jews, the Nazis weren't concerned about any safety procedures. The SS didn't worry about safety procedures because it was the Jews who did all the really dangerous work. And they were all expendable.

Also, what's all that stuff under the Verteiler near the bottom? Are those the departments that this memo was distributed to? Or generic personnel? It seems unlikely that a memo referring to homicidal gassings would be distributed to so many different people.

Finally, this memo refers to the zyklon b being particular dangerous because it contains lower levels of the warning agent. The zyklon b that was used to gas the Jews was the stuff that had the warning agent removed entirely.

The one thing you have in favor of a sinister interpretation is that it is a "Special Order"

So I guess the important questions are:

Has this been submitted by the prosecution as evidence in any war crimes trial?

Who was on trial?

Was he convicted?

Was this document believed to be authentic by the prosecution when the prosecution entered it into evidence?

Did the judge accept it as an authentic document if it was accepted into evidence?

What role did this document play as an aggravating or mitigating factor in determining the defendant's guilt and sentencing?
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Turnagain » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Balsamo wrote:Those specially trained SS-men - if trained they should have constituted a team of specialists - were by 1942 not aware that they should wear gas masks, although Zyklon B when used for delousing is used in very large and dangerous quantity. And that is in the third year of the camp? And this sounds logic to you?
Turnagain makes no sense at all. Every German soldier (The Heer & Waffen SS) was issued and trained to use a M30/M38 gas mask at basic training. Germans were the only soldiers who all carried gas masks in their full field kit.
gasmask German 1.jpg
Standard Kit Heer.jpg
.
So here's Matty and another pointless post about a non-question. Gee, what a surprise. Pssst! Matty! Did you know that I, too, was trained to used a gas mask while I was in the Army? So, what has that have to do with soldiers NOT WEARING A GAS MASK staying away from fumigated rooms for five hours or maintaining a distance of 15 meters from them? How come the cyanide didn't affect the sondercommandos without gas masks who started removing the cadavers only minutes after they had been gassed?

Now how about the question of what did those (evil) Germans do with all that leftover Zyklon-B after it was removed from the Kula columns? Did they just pitch it into the nearest garbage can? Did they do that because all of the Germans had gas masks? Say, how come those guards, those guys with a KAR 98 slung over their shoulder who are in the photos of trains being unloaded at the camps aren't carrying gas masks? How come they're just standing around instead of beating the crap out of people with whips and their rifle butts? Let's not forget those huge 12,500 cubic meter graves that Miss Sturdy-Colls couldn't find with her GPR. Where did they go? Do you think that they just buggered off? Scarpered?

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:53 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:When gassing Jews, the Nazis weren't concerned about any safety procedures. The SS didn't worry about safety procedures because it was the Jews who did all the really dangerous work. And they were all expendable.
So you now admit that the Germans considered Jewish slave workers as expendable. Well that's a start.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Also, what's all that stuff under the Verteiler near the bottom? Are those the departments that this memo was distributed to?
Yes Mary that's what Verteiler means......for distribution to The SS main barracks , Special work group control, to Storage, to normal labour control, to the guards barracks, land management and so on. Did you see Gesundheitspflege or Sanierung? Why do you think they are missing?
Turnagain the holocaust denier wrote:So, you have the letter but you just don't want to show it. Thats original
Cedric showed you. Sadly, this was before before you backed up your false claim about Lukaszkiewicz giving testimony at the Nuremberg trials, which was our deal.
:D

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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:16 am

Turnagain wrote:Say, Mary, have you ever heard of an even remotely reasonable explanation for what the Germans did with the Zyklon-B from the Kula columns while the alleged gas chambers were being emptied? There were supposedly 2000 or so victims in every batch and the only way to move them was with that little man-lift that could only handle 4 or 5 cadavers at a time so they had to do something with it.
Absolutely nothing. I don't know if I've ever heard any explanation, reasonable or unreasonable, for what they did with the pellets that continued outgassing for about two hours. I know Skeptics have asked Believers about this but nobody even tries to tackle it. Their problem is that they haven't been told what to think about it because it's not addressed by any of the Holocaust scholars. I cannot recall reading any testimony by any Germans or any Jews that talks about removing the pellets. But neither is there any testimony about sitting around for two hours waiting for the pellets to outgas before the ventilation fan is turned on to clear the gas before the Jews go in and remove the dead bodies.

Somehow somebody had to remove the whole middle column through the roof of the gas chamber with the pellets still outgassing and then carry this three meter long column somewhere where it wouldn't pose a threat to any Germans.

Maybe we should start a thread addressing this specifically.
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Re: New Documents on the Gas Columns of the Auschwitz Cremat

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:09 am

Turnagain wrote:Say, Mary, have you ever heard of an even remotely reasonable explanation for what the Germans did with the Zyklon-B from the Kula columns while the alleged gas chambers were being emptied? .
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Absolutely nothing.


Holocaust deniers and Alzheimer's / Is there a cure?
12 August 1942
Auschwitz Concentration Camp
Kommandantur
Special Order

A case of indisposition with slight symptoms of poisoning by hydrocyanic acid gas which occurred today makes it necessary to warn all those participating in the gassings and all other SS members that in particular on opening rooms used for gassing SS not wearing masks must wait at least five hours and keep a distance of at least 15 metres from the chamber. In addition, particular attention should be paid to the wind direction.

The gas being used at present contains less odorous warning agent and is therefore especially dangerous.

The SS garrison doctor declines all responsibility for any accident that should occur in the case when these directives have not been complied with by SS members.

Signed: Hoess
SS Lieutenant-Colonel and Commandant"