Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:57 pm

David wrote:It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann.
I'm guessing you haven't read Cesarini's biography of Eichmann, eh.
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Re: The New Truth

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:so (again I am assuming) do you think that all the bodies of your 6,000,000 Holocaust victims have been found or have they disappeared?
False dichotomy. And you know it.
Hello SM.
It is only a "false dichotomy" from the perspective of a Believer.
You believe that 6,000,000+- "disappeared"
12er Shias believe that the 12 Imam disappeared.

The Shia has faith in his tales. You have faith in yours.
To ask you to step back a moment...don't you think that a tale of
6,000,000 disappearing bodies is rather unusual?


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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:12 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:so (again I am assuming) do you think that all the bodies of your 6,000,000 Holocaust victims have been found or have they disappeared?
False dichotomy. And you know it.
Hello SM.
It is only a "false dichotomy" from the perspective of a Believer.
You believe that 6,000,000+- "disappeared"
12er Shias believe that the 12 Imam disappeared.

The Shia has faith in his tales. You have faith in yours.
To ask you to step back a moment...don't you think that a tale of
6,000,000 disappearing bodies is rather unusual?

False analogy.

As you know.

You are pretty good a false BS today.
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Re: The New Truth

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:18 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann.
I'm guessing you haven't read Cesarini's biography of Eichmann, eh.

You are getting confused. There are many views of Eichmann.

The question you should be asking is, Did Lilla cite Cesarini to come up with the
amazing claim that "Arendt held a position we now know to be utterly indefensible?"

Did he? Or is Professor Llla's New Truth based on one quote from
Bettina Stangneth?






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Re: The New Truth

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:25 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:
The Shia has faith in his tales. You have faith in yours.
To ask you to step back a moment...don't you think that a tale of
6,000,000 disappearing bodies is rather unusual?

[/color]
False analogy.

As you know.

You are pretty good a false BS today.
You are dodging the question. and good at false BS is a
double negative...
Faith in stories...you just have the pretense of calling your stories, "history."

Anyway, here comes the Boss...so I have to get back to work.

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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:37 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann.
I'm guessing you haven't read Cesarini's biography of Eichmann, eh.
You are getting confused. There are many views of Eichmann.
You seemed to indicate that historians agreed with Arendt's viewpoint on Eichmann - and then curiously cited a BBC website rather than a historian. I cited the author of a recent biography of Eichmann who takes issue with the banality of evil concept and about which biography historian Ian Kershaw wrote
The revision of Arendt's interpretation is surely correct.
David wrote:The question you should be asking is, Did Lilla cite Cesarini to come up with the
amazing claim that "Arendt held a position we now know to be utterly indefensible?"
Why on earth should I ask myself this question? I replied to your point about what most historians conclude.

Have you read Cesarini's biography, by the way?
David wrote:Did he? Or is Professor Llla's New Truth based on one quote from Bettina Stangneth?
David, you are all over the map. Can't you think straight? You said that Lilla issued a
clarion call to lie about the Holocaust;
- the point I was replying to - but now you're confusing yourself about Eichmann and jumping all around other imagined sins committed by Lilla.

The lengths you'll go to in order to avoid dealing with this:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.
David, Can you set out and directly quote, where in Eric Hunt's propaganda video, he accounts for 2,500 to 15,000 people leaving Treblinka extermination camp? You can't can you because it doesn't exist.


http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/jewish-g ... cumentary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm even going to give you a hand. Open Eric's video using the above link and fast foward to 8.13 Seconds.

(8.13sec) (Voice over Eric Hunt) : "The following witnesses from Steven Spielberg's USC Survivors of the Shoa, visual history foundation, describe being transited at Treblinka......"

Now list those from Treblinka (extermination camp), David unless, of course, you are lying again

:D
Thanks for this.

Now, to help David - and to give him something to shoot for, here are three posts that attempted exactly what you ask him to do, the conclusions given in all three posts ignored by David, Maryzilla, and Hunt: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p395294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p395647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p395964" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Do you think David will continue to ignore all this?

It would also be interesting to read David's take on your discussion of Hunt's lying about steam chambers and the material scrmbldggs has posted about Irene Shapiro and that others of us posted about the details of the taped testimonies.
It is quite amusing, actually.
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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:45 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:
The Shia has faith in his tales. You have faith in yours.
To ask you to step back a moment...don't you think that a tale of
6,000,000 disappearing bodies is rather unusual?

[/color]
False analogy.

As you know.

You are pretty good a false BS today.
You are dodging the question. and good at false BS is a
double negative...
Faith in stories...you just have the pretense of calling your stories, "history."

Anyway, here comes the Boss...so I have to get back to work.
I'm not dodging any question. I am telling you that you're presenting a false dichotomy and using false analogies to defend your false dichotomy.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:36 pm

Post deleted. :pardon:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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the New Truth

Post by David » Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:12 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:David, you are all over the map. Can't you think straight? You said that Lilla issued a clarion call to lie about the Holocaust;
- the point I was replying to - but now you're confusing yourself about Eichmann and jumping all around other imagined sins committed by Lilla.
Hello SM- Let's review what Lilla wrote-
"Every advance in research that adds a new complication to our understanding of what happened on the Nazi side, or on the victims’, can potentially threaten our moral clarity about why it happened, obscuring the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism."

So, how does Prof. Lilla propose to deal with the new complications that threaten
his "moral clarity?" i.e.. What is his "New Truth?"

He gives his answer in the story of Chaim Rumkowski...Nothing matters
but the "the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism."

The whole reason he is bashing Arendt is because she challenged his
"moral clarity."

I raised the pathetic factual basis of Lilla's claims because it is indicative of
his regard for historical facts...very, very low. If Lilla had cited Cesarini's biography then he would not have sounded like such a fanatic.
Instead he is more than happy with a pathetic misquote from conspiracy theorist Bettina Stangneth.

And, like a true extremist, he doesn't grant Arendt's view any credit. She is
damned, an anathema.

Professor Lilla's ranting about a New Truth is a ironic echo of earlier claims of
a New Order



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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:50 am

David,

A quick question: would you care to explain the two quotations below?

From David upthread:
David wrote:The professor makes an amazing claim: Arendt held, “a position we now know to be utterly indefensible—as Arendt, were she alive would have to concede”. Her odious and absurd position is Arendt’s portrayal of Eichmann as “not radically evil” and her shifting “of attention from anti-Semitism to the faceless system in which he [Eichmann] worked”.

It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann. As
The BBC History website reads: “He [Eichmann] adapted to fluctuating anti-Jewish policies, and endeavored to act with dedication, being motivated by unbridled careerism, concern for his status and rank, and feelings of frustration over his failure to achieve promotion, and over the disdain exhibited towards him and his inferior education.”

Professor Lilla claims his “New Truth” is supported by “a great body of evidence”, mainly accumulated over the past fifteen years. However, he produces only one quote from a book by Bettina Stangneth. Ms. Stangneth has, according to Professor Lilla’s footnote 2, also shown that Eichmann was part of “an international network of ex-Nazis who received significant support from within the Federal Republic of Germany”. Ms. Stangneth, according to Professor Lilla, recently unraveled the “confusion, intrigue, misinformation, and disinformation” which surrounded notes and tapes made by a mysterious Willem Sassen in the 1950′s."
From David Merlin, CODOH - http://codohfounder.com/letter-to-the-n ... -of-books/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:
The professor makes an amazing claim: Arendt held, “a position we now know to be utterly indefensible—as Arendt, were she alive would have to concede”. This anathema is Arendt’s portrayal of Eichmann as “not radically evil” and her shifting “of attention from anti-Semitism to the faceless system in which he [Eichmann] worked”.

It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann. As
The BBC History website reads: “He [Eichmann] adapted to fluctuating anti-Jewish policies, and endeavored to act with dedication, being motivated by unbridled careerism, concern for his status and rank, and feelings of frustration over his failure to achieve promotion, and over the disdain exhibited towards him and his inferior education.”

Professor Lilla claims his “New Truth” is supported by “a great body of evidence”, mainly accumulated over the past fifteen years. However, he produces only one quote from a book by Bettina Stangneth. Ms. Stangneth has, according to Professor Lilla’s footnote 2, also shown that Eichmann was part of “an international network of ex-Nazis who received significant support from within the Federal Republic of Germany”. Ms. Stangneth, according to Professor Lilla, recently unraveled the “confusion, intrigue, misinformation, and disinformation” which surrounded notes and tapes made by a mysterious Willem Sassen in the 1950′s.
Thanks - to the anonymous person who pointed out this uncanny coincidence.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Thanks - to the anonymous person who pointed out this uncanny coincidence.
David also copies from Fred Berg's http://nazigassings.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I will point his plagiarisms in the future.

David claims to have a personal relationship with Fred Berg and once posted what was supposedly an email from Fred Berg to "Andrew" ( David's supposedly real first name). I dismissed this as another of David's fabrications.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:39 am

David,

Ouch. I didn't see that coming! Matthew concludes you copied from Merlin. That would be despicably dishonest of you. So harsh.

It's also possible that, like the monkeys who finally pecked out Shakespeare, you typed away long enough to vomit up Merlin's letter.

I don't know. There are no doubt other explanations that might account for the astonishing similarity between what Merlin penned in '13 and what you posted in SSF this week. I'm counting on you to set this straight.

(Any time you're ready to answer this http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p414159" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, which you've been avoiding for days, we're all ears, pal.)

Best, SM
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:17 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps he who types like monkey can explain this for us:
"The Treblinka A..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by GroupM Entertainment Limited.
Sorry about that.
Unless monkey-typist is still in a pout over his own little act of intellectual property "borrowing" having been called out.
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Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:46 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:David,

Ouch. I didn't see that coming! Matthew concludes you copied from Merlin.
??? Bradley Smith's blog has lots of great articles in it.
I copy huge chunks from them...But maybe you and Matty should notify Mr. Smith that you have "proof" of a copyright violation of his website? You could even do it anonymously. That would be in character for you guys.


Of course the quotes important to this discussion are all those ones from the New
York Review of Books article by Professor Lilla…

Do you want to stay on topic and tells us how does Prof. Lilla proposed to deal with the "new complications" that threaten his "moral clarity?" i.e.. What is his "New Truth?"

It is obvious, he gives his answer in the story of Chaim Rumkowski...Nothing matters
but the "the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism."
Lilla bashs Arendt is because she challenged his "moral clarity."

Lilla is a typical Believer. Rather than admit he is faking history…he proclaims
a "New Truth."
Arad is a typical Believer. He knows that lots of people were transferred out
of Treblinka…but he ignores the facts.
You are a typical Believer too-You believe in Tales of a million missing bodies at Treblinka. Rather than admit your act of Faith…you proclaim "False Dichotomy" and run away from the amazing claim of a million Missing bodies.
Fritz Berg has pointed out the Science which shows that people killed by
CO poisoning turn Cherry Red. You continue to believe the handful of
Treblinka tales of purple or blue bodies.
Mr. Hunt has found a dozen eye witnesses who transited through an
"Extermination Factory" and you believe your own little "New Truth" of
people claiming diesel death chambers.
The evidence of transfers into and out of Treblinka camps grows and
you and Mathis wave it way because you Believe in 1,000,000 dead at
Treblinka therefore a mere 2,500 know exceptions is "insignificant."





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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:23 am

David the holocaust denier wrote: Bradley Smith's blog has lots of great articles in it. I copy huge chunks from them.
As your "own work" like you just got caught doing?
:D
David the holocaust denier wrote: Lilla is a typical Believer. Rather than admit he is faking history…
No that's you David. You have been faking endless quotes on this forum and run away every time you got caught. Would you like to see the large list of your fabrications and edits?
:D
David the holocaust denier wrote: Arad is a typical Believer. He knows that lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka…but he ignores the facts.
You have never read Arad. Bluespaceoddity had to point out to you that Arad clearly discusses a transfers out of Treblinka Extermination camp and Bluespaceoddity even gave you the page numbers. This was in response to your lie where you wrote
David the holocaust denier initially lied about Arad and wrote: 'it is now clear that the Believer claim expressed by Professor Arad, that all Jewish detainees were murdered and none were transported out of the camp, is unsustainable."
David the holocaust denier wrote: You are a typical Believer too-You believe in Tales of a million missing bodies at Treblinka.
You are now lying again and making up strawman arguments that we never made. There are no missing bodies. There was human ash and body parts, some of which still remains there after 70 years.
David the holocaust denier wrote: Fritz Berg has pointed out the Science which shows that people killed by CO poisoning turn Cherry Red.
Freddy Berg, a lunatic with no qualifications, who directly lies in his propaganda videos, has been proven wrong again and again on this very forum.

Show us the medical citation that says all fatal CO poisoning victims display Cherry Red. Nessie has shown the citations that say the opposite. It's now your turn to put up or shut up.

:D

David? Is this your own work or are you copying Berg? Did Berg write this for you?
:D

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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Show us the medical citation that says all fatal CO poisoning victims display Cherry Red. Nessie has shown the citations that say the opposite. It's now your turn to put up or shut up. [/color]
:D
Really? Nessie found medical citations that say the classic cherry red color seen with CO poisoning victims is never seen with CO poisoning victims?
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Now where did all those darn bodies go?

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:There are no missing bodies.
Sigh...You are one confused Believer, Matty.
There are one million missing bodies...unless you are claiming that the
bodies are still hidden just inches under the ground and no one has
every looked in the right spot.

Perhaps you are now a devotee of Dr. Sturdy-C? She claims to have found new mass graves...almost 40 bone fragments...right there in a known grave yard.
True Believer Science at Work.



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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: You have been faking endless quotes on this forum AND[/b]
Nessie has shown the citations that say the opposite.

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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:06 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Really? Nessie found medical citations that say the classic cherry red color seen with CO poisoning victims is never seen with CO poisoning victims?
No, Nessie provided medical citations that clearly stated that cherry red is not always seen in 100% of CO poisoning, fatal cases. You didn't read them because you are a holocaust denier cult member.

You haven't read Arad. You didn't read Nessie's citations. You never watched Eric's propaganda film. You are just a moronic cult member troll.

:D

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Re: Now where did all those darn bodies go?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:20 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:There are no missing bodies. There was human ash and body parts, some of which still remains there after 70 years.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Sigh...You are one confused Believer, Matty.
Really David?
David the lying holocaust denier in his previous fabrication wrote: "Treblinka II was a camp where soviet munitions were reprocessed and 5,000 people worked there"
David the lying holocaust denier in his previous fabrication wrote:Lukaszkiewicz says 6,000"

:D
David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Perhaps you are now a devotee of Dr. Sturdy-C? She claims to have found new mass graves...almost 40 bone fragments...right there in a known grave yard.
That was Treblinka I, the labour camp David, in a Christian graveyard! You are confused with "the basics" again.
Treblinka I Graveyard.jpg
Let Mary do the talking. Mary isn't completely insane!
:D
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:27 am

Folks -

Here http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18857" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is where you all get to discuss corpse color, without benefit of anyone who knows medicine; in this thread we are discussing David's peculiar habit of "copy[ing] huge chunks" of material without setting this material off in quotations or attributing it in any way to its author. In other words, of trying to put over on us that he's written what someone else has written. And then taking almost a month to come up with something to say when sussed out.

As a side project we have also been discussing how David quotes people out of context to make it seem they've argued something they haven't.

Corpse color here - http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18857;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; David's peculiar tactics here, in this thread.

Thanks, SM
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:33 am

David,

I believe you missed this post, as you got so excited about Lilla's article: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p414159" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will help you with what it said:
Now, to help David - and to give him something to shoot for, here are three posts that attempted exactly what you ask him to do, the conclusions given in all three posts ignored by David, Maryzilla, and Hunt: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=320#p395294, viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395647, and viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=400#p395964. Do you think David will continue to ignore all this?

It would also be interesting to read David's take on [Matthew's] discussion of Hunt's lying about steam chambers and the material scrmbldggs has posted about Irene Shapiro and that others of us posted about the details of the taped testimonies.
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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:00 am

David wrote:Arad is a typical Believer. He knows that lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka…but he ignores the facts.
No, you ignore the fact that Arad "announced" two of these transfers in his book on the AR camps, published in the 1980s; you intentionally ignore Arad's scholarly conclusion in order to score cheap points and to preserve your false belief that Eric Hunt discovered transfers out of Treblinka. Anyone who doesn't believe me, please check Arad, BST, page 127 - Warsaw ghetto transferees, page 134 - Grodno transferees - you will see that I am right; in fact, check Hunt's spreadsheet where he sourced the February 1943 transfers to "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps By Yitzhak Arad p134" and quoted from Arad's book describing these. Did you miss that?

David, have you even studied Hunt's data? If you had, in fact, you'd have seen that in Hunt's own words one of the places he gets his evidence against Arad comes from, er, Arad himself! But instead of studying Hunt's data, comparing it to other sources, and lining it up against the Shoah interviews, you fall for Hunt's lies and then wallow in your ignorance, for months now.

The agenda you guys have - and the reasons for your deceit on this - are clear.
David wrote:You are a typical Believer too-You believe in Tales of a million missing bodies at Treblinka. Rather than admit your act of Faith…you proclaim "False Dichotomy" and run away from the amazing claim of a million Missing bodies.
Matthew and others have pointed out to you over and over that this is a fallacy: remains of cremated bodies have been discovered, just as one would expect given what we know. In fact, one would not expect, based on the evidence that is known, to find nearly a million bodies or anything approaching such a number at Treblinka. You're being thoroughly dishonest in order to distort the history and hang onto your cherished beliefs.
David wrote:Hunt has found a dozen eye witnesses who transited through an "Extermination Factory"
Hunt did not find these eyewitnesses - good grief; the Shoah Foundation did; a great deal of their testimony simply confirms what specialists have written about previously. Hunt himself distorts some of what they say and misunderstands some of it. He was reckless with these sources, as has been shown in a number of posts, cited above, you know, the posts that you keep ignoring.
David wrote:you believe your own little "New Truth" of people claiming diesel death chambers.
You continue to repeat this lie: I have never claimed that people were killed by diesel at Treblinka.
David wrote:The evidence of transfers into and out of Treblinka camps grows
In Hunt's fevered imagination. You have yet to deal with the specific arguments a) against his transfer coutns and b) showing that this topic and the fact of small-scale transports from/through Treblinka in 1943 have been discussed for decades, including by a German court in 1965!
David wrote:you and Mathis wave it way because you Believe in 1,000,000 dead at Treblinka therefore a mere 2,500 know exceptions is "insignificant."
"Wave it away" LOL. I brought up the transfers discussed by Kranz on another forum before I knew of Hunt's video, a point you keep refusing to acknowledge.

David, you've lost this, yet you repeat yourself like one of those crazy prophets collaring people in Central Park. Have some self-respect. Give it up.
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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:37 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:Arad is a typical Believer. He knows that lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka…but he ignores the facts.
No, you ignore the fact that Arad "announced" two of these transfers in his book on the AR camps, published in the 1980s;
What about "He knows lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka but ignores the facts" don't you understand? Go read what Arad wrote to Mr. Hunt about transfers out of Treblinka…the post you blamed on old age.
You are chasing your tail and smearing Mr. Hunt without understanding the
issue…Arad knew what he was saying just as you know that Tales of Steam Chambers
and piles of purple bodies are impossible. You are just willing to pretend that your faith in Tales of 1,000,000 disappearing bodies is something other than an act of Faith.

Lilla has accurately describe your approach to history with his The NEW TRUTH.

As to Mr. Hunt's discoveries. They were great. They have been confirmed
by lots of evidence. All you can do is smear a true scholar.



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Not Diesel!??!

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I have never claimed that people were killed by diesel at Treblinka.
Oh? I am sorry. Then you must believe in the Tale of the Treblinka Steam Chambers? For other readers, here is the Steam Chamber Tale…it was a report from secret agents inside Treblinka Camp circa late Summer 1942! It appeared in printed form and translated into English in London in November 1942. The US printing was sponsored by Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein!
I encourage people to read this Report in its entirety.

A path skirts the building and runs along its western wall finally ending at the next building near death-house No. 1. This building is at right angles to the death-house No. 2. It is a brick construction much smaller than the other. It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Along the northern wall of this house runs a corridor from which there are doors to the chambers. The outside walls of the chambers have valves (until recently doors which had been changed into valves for utility reasons). Also here a scoop in the shape of a shallow vessel is placed at the height of the valves. The steam-room is adjacent to the building. Inside the steam-room there is a large vat which produces the steam. The hot steam comes into the chambers through pipes installed there, each having the prescribed number of vents. While this machinery of death is in action, the doors and valves are hermetically closed. The floor in the chambers has a terra-cotta inlay which becomes very slippery when water is poured over it.
When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.


From the Black Book of Polish Jewery http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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Re: Running away from the "New Truth."

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:56 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:Arad is a typical Believer. He knows that lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka…but he ignores the facts.
No, you ignore the fact that Arad "announced" two of these transfers in his book on the AR camps, published in the 1980s;
What about "He knows lots of people were transferred out of Treblinka but ignores the facts" don't you understand? Go read what Arad wrote to Mr. Hunt about transfers out of Treblinka…the post you blamed on old age.
You are chasing your tail and smearing Mr. Hunt without understanding the
issue…Arad knew what he was saying just as you know that Tales of Steam Chambers
and piles of purple bodies are impossible. You are just willing to pretend that your faith in Tales of 1,000,000 disappearing bodies is something other than an act of Faith.

Lilla has accurately describe your approach to history with his The NEW TRUTH.

As to Mr. Hunt's discoveries. They were great. They have been confirmed
by lots of evidence. All you can do is smear a true scholar.


Blah blah blah. Arad's public stance, published in the 1980s, is that a small number of Jews were transported from Treblinka II to other camps; in a private email, late in his life, he "goofed." So what?

I see that you continue to ignore this:
Now, to help David - and to give him something to shoot for, here are three posts that attempted exactly what you ask him to do, the conclusions given in all three posts ignored by David, Maryzilla, and Hunt: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=320#p395294, viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395647, and viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=400#p395964. Do you think David will continue to ignore all this?

It would also be interesting to read David's take on [Matthew's] discussion of Hunt's lying about steam chambers and the material scrmbldggs has posted about Irene Shapiro and that others of us posted about the details of the taped testimonies.
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Re: Not Diesel!??!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:02 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: I have never claimed that people were killed by diesel at Treblinka.
Oh? I am sorry. Then you must believe in the Tale of the Treblinka Steam Chambers? For other readers, here is the Steam Chamber Tale…it was a report from secret agents inside Treblinka Camp circa late Summer 1942! It appeared in printed form and translated into English in London in November 1942. The US printing was sponsored by Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein!
I encourage people to read this Report in its entirety.

A path skirts the building and runs along its western wall finally ending at the next building near death-house No. 1. This building is at right angles to the death-house No. 2. It is a brick construction much smaller than the other. It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Along the northern wall of this house runs a corridor from which there are doors to the chambers. The outside walls of the chambers have valves (until recently doors which had been changed into valves for utility reasons). Also here a scoop in the shape of a shallow vessel is placed at the height of the valves. The steam-room is adjacent to the building. Inside the steam-room there is a large vat which produces the steam. The hot steam comes into the chambers through pipes installed there, each having the prescribed number of vents. While this machinery of death is in action, the doors and valves are hermetically closed. The floor in the chambers has a terra-cotta inlay which becomes very slippery when water is poured over it.
When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.


From the Black Book of Polish Jewery http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David,

This description of Treblinka is well known - even if your description of it is a bit odd. As I am aware of your dreadful performance in this thread http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I am a bit surprised you'd dredge this old gambit up again.

No, I don't "believe in" steam chambers either, but I do understand how during the war years mistakes were made figuring out what your pals the Nazis were up to.

Here's another view of the same topic and a statement my views on the issue, along with an expose of further revisionist BS concerning "steam chambers": http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1361" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by David » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:28 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I have never claimed that people were killed by diesel at Treblinka.
Statistical Mechanic wrote: No, I don't "believe in" steam chambers either.
Hmmm, Not Diesel. Not Steam.
Couldn't be something that changed the bodies bright red.
Probably not the giant electrical machines of Belzec.

Gee, SM, what is your theory about how 1,000,000 people (plus or minus 250,000)
were killed at Treblinka?


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Re: Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:21 am

David wrote:. . . Gee, SM, what is your theory about how 1,000,000 people (plus or minus 250,000)
were killed at Treblinka?
First of all, I have never given an estimate of the death toll at Treblinka as 1 million plus or minus 250,000. I gave the estimate mentioned in this post: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p394341;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; you need to stop being dishonest.

Second, I am of the view that most of the victims at Treblinka were murdered in gas chambers using petrol engines, as described in the testimony of "motorist" Nikolay Shalayev and others (and that witnesses who spoke of other methods of killing in the gas chambers were in error). In addition, some Jews were shot to death at the Lazarett and on occasion elsewhere in the camp and others died in the trains transporting them to the camp.

David, my turn:

1) Why do you continue to refuse to answer what you were asked here - and then a number of times thereafter? What are you afraid of? To help you with what Matthew and I asked you to explain, this post, written before I was through dissecting Hunt's video, gives an explanation of his errors, accounting for a number of inflated numbers described by transports and time period (later I corrected my analysis of Hunt's data and showed that even fewer Jews were, by Hunt's own data, transferred), this post drills down deeper into some specific errors Hunt made and his methodological snafus, discussing some individual cases, and this post lists some of Hunt's "transferees' who were never even in Treblinka.

2) Why do you keep writing that I believe the German killed Jews at Treblinka using diesel when I've never said this and specifically have told you that "I never mentioned diesel chambers, and you know it" and that "I have never claimed that people were killed by diesel at Treblinka"? Why are you so dishonest?
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:36 am

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Hmmm, Not Diesel. Not Steam.
Couldn't be something that changed the bodies bright red. Probably not the giant electrical machines of Belzec.
Well David. It is good to see you are as mad as ever, despite your little "Medicinal break"

You are offering your knowledge on Arad, which you haven't read,
And comparing it to Eric Hunt's film, which you have never watched,
with comments, that someone else wrote,
about Steam chambers at Treblinka, which we never claimed.


However it is good that you now acknowledge that Eric Hunt was lying and you have started to back-pedal on your claims.
David the insane holocaust denier [b]two weeks[/b] ago wrote wrote:Mr. Hunt showed that thousands of people were transferred out of the "Extermination Camp
David the insane holocaust denier [b]yesterday[/b] wrote wrote:Mr. Hunt has found a dozen eye witnesses who transited
Would you like me to tell you the actual number in Eric's video? This way you wont have to keep making up figures. I actually watched Eric's film
:D

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Re: Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:44 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: First of all, I have never given an estimate of the death toll at Treblinka as 1 million plus
Of course you didn't. David is trying to change the subject matter. He's delaying for time.

He's currently scouring Freddy Berg and Bradley Smith blogs to find something to plagiarise that is "remotely on topic".
:D

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Re: Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:48 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Would you like me to tell you the actual number in Eric's video? This way you wont have to keep making up figures. I actually watched Eric's film
:D
Yeah, here is where I told David that Hunt's claimed 1000s upon 1000s of Jews transferred actually tally to no more than 2,387, in line with the 1965 statement of the Dusseldorf court.

And here is where I asked David questions, as you have, about his views on this, other than his parroting what Hunt claims:
Speaking of running away, David, Eric Hunt seems content to wallow in self-pity, escalate his fantasies, and try hurling lame insults. Too busy to deal with the specific critique of his figures, methods, accuracy in this thread.

As you appear to have been, too. Maybe you can help him out:
1) Where are the criticisms of his claims incorrect?
2) How many transfer transports were there, with how many transferees each, and how do you know?
3) Have you watched Hunt's video - who is the first and last person identified in it and where was each sent?
4) Tell us your estimate of the number of Jews transferred from Treblinka to other camps (because that is where they went, to camps mostly in the KL system, not your hoped-for resettlement destinations), when they were transferred, and how you got your answer.

These are simple questions, David . . .
David didn’t answer.
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Re: Not Diesel!??! Not Steam!!??!

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:13 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: "3) Have you watched Hunt's video - who is the first and last person identified in it and where was each sent?"

David didn't answer.
David and Mary, never read anything about Krege's fake survey of Treblinka, but argue "Krege is right". David and Mary haven't watched Eric's propaganda video, but argue that "Eric Hunt is right".

This is text book "cult psychology". The junior cult members defer to the cult leader's "perceived meaning" to deal with outsiders, rather actually quoting what the cult leaders actually say. It's very funny to watch David do exactly this.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:18 pm

At http://cohencentrationcamp.in/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=56" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, Eric Hunt gives us as good an example of his intellectual depravity as anything he's pulled off to date. His plea there for help finding where Jews from Warsaw went from late July though September 1942 gives away that his claims on transit and resettlement come not from what he knows but what he doesn't know - that is, from his preconceived conclusions; such revisionist claims have always lacked support in evidence, as we can see in the Treblinka Transit and Central European threads here. With his appeal for team members, unwittingly Hunt reminds us how revisionists conclude a priori that Jews were resettled and/or survived despite holes in the gurus' story, the gaps that need to be plugged, admits Hunt, and how, with or without evidence, revisionists will always believe in the "Revisionist case."

Hunt is desperate - he has already doubled down on transit and for some reason it now dawns on him that about 300,000 of those taken to Treblinka were hauled there from Warsaw. You'd think Hunt might have tackled this little issue before making his insipid videos about Treblinka, but the revisionist mind works backward, Wonderland style: verdict first, trial to follow.

So what to do - if you're an intrepid lying {!#%@}? Go find some "evidence," anything that can be shoved into crappy, dishonest YouTubes that might fool people who don't know the history all that well.

Here is how Hunt words his admission that deniers proceed from idees fixes, not evidence, and that deniers grasp for ways to support preconceived notions they've already bought into:
I would like to form a team to get as much new information about where did the Warsaw Jews go from July 22nd - September 21st 1942, specifically individuals talking about being transited during this time period ANYWHERE and surviving.

This is one of the perceived holes in the Revisionist case and if we can help plug it up more than has been done by Mattogno, Graf, Kues, it will do a great service to our cause. In fact if we could get enough information it'd be all over for the Treblinka hoax.
"If we could get enough information" on something "we" already believe in firmly, regardless of evidence, and are out trying to huckster - well, FSS, then "we" might actually have something! LOL. Until then, Hunt has his "cause" and is looking for people to do "service" to the cause . . .

Note: Hunt's pathetic plea is posted at the cleverly named "cohencentration camp" web page. The page includes this bit of self-description:
You may know us as goyim, racists, White supremacists, neo-nazis and ‘nazis-who-want-to-kill-six-million-Jews’... We're much more than that. We're not your ordinary, friendly neighbourhood sturmbannführer.
Indeed, more than that - but that as well, a gathering of Nazi wannabes and more. Nicely said.

Thanks to some of the usual suspects for bringing to my attention this ugly own-goal scored by Hunt . . .
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:46 pm

I was more interested in the Cohencentrationcamp forum. I see that Eric Hunt is a moderator. The forum has 23 members. I see that this forum has it's own "project", which is Eric & Freddy's Holocaust Hoax Museum. More interestingly, it drops any pretence of not being racist and goes straight for supporting "White Power"

Link to this forum and its editorials.
http://cohencentrationcamp.in/index.php ... 1b376a3ed3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"A White Guide to the Jewish Narrative"
Whites waged a cataclysmic, fratricidal war on each other and lost. Jews were already helping blacks found the NAACP and pathologizing White racial identity."

"The Jew is the Genetic Enemy of Every People on the Planet"
"Just as the Black is a fierce warrior, having originated in the savage land of Africa, the Yellow is a diligent worker having originated in the highly organized agrarian East Asia, and the White is a contemplative creator, having originated in a frozen land which required innovation for survival, the Jew is a bloodsucking parasite."
David the holocaust denier wrote:I also think that the racists tend not to do good work as revisionists and have little actual knowledge of events.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p132229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David the holocaust denier wrote: Mr Hunt has done an excellent job and we should thank him

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:55 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I was more interested in the Cohencentrationcamp forum. I see that Eric Hunt is a moderator. The forum has 23 members. I see that this forum has it's own "project", which is Eric & Freddy's Holocaust Hoax Museum. More interestingly, it drops any pretence of not being racist and goes straight for supporting "White Power"

Link to this forum and its editorials.
http://cohencentrationcamp.in/index.php ... 1b376a3ed3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"A White Guide to the Jewish Narrative"
Whites waged a cataclysmic, fratricidal war on each other and lost. Jews were already helping blacks found the NAACP and pathologizing White racial identity."

"The Jew is the Genetic Enemy of Every People on the Planet"
"Just as the Black is a fierce warrior, having originated in the savage land of Africa, the Yellow is a diligent worker having originated in the highly organized agrarian East Asia, and the White is a contemplative creator, having originated in a frozen land which required innovation for survival, the Jew is a bloodsucking parasite."
David the holocaust denier wrote:I also think that the racists tend not to do good work as revisionists and have little actual knowledge of events.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 29#p132229" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David the holocaust denier wrote: Mr Hunt has done an excellent job and we should thank him
I think you've hit upon the "much more than that" part of what cohencentration camp offers . . . and I think that David has little actual knowledge full stop.
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1,000,000 plus or minus

Post by David » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:First of all, I have never given an estimate of the death toll at Treblinka as 1 million plus or minus 250,000. I gave the estimate mentioned in this post: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=120#p394341; you need to stop being dishonest.
You're pretty funny, SM.
Believer figures are all over the map with their various "body counts."
For Treblinka the claims run up into the millions. Revisionists have a saying,
"What's a few million bodies to a Holocaust Believer?"
Here you are trying to peddle your "estimate" as something other than a wild guess
based not on physical and scientific evidence but on goofy tales by Zabecki or Wiernik.



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Not Steam!?

Post by David » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Second, I am of the view that most of the victims at Treblinka were murdered in gas chambers using petrol engines, as described in the testimony of "motorist" Nikolay Shalayev and others (and that witnesses who spoke of other methods of killing in the gas chambers were in error). In addition, some Jews were shot to death at the Lazarett and on occasion elsewhere in the camp and others died in the trains transporting them to the camp.
We are not talking about your "view." We are talking about your statement "during the war years mistakes…" to "explain away the Tales of Steam Chambers of Death.
You are obviously wrong. Obviously they were as much part of the "Treblinka Tales"
as your "view."

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Re: 1,000,000 plus or minus

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:01 pm

David wrote:goofy tales by Zabecki or Wiernik.
Goofy tales. Goofy?!

David, may you never find yourself in a situation where what those people lived through and survived looms on your horizon as the faintest of all possibilities.
.
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Re: 1,000,000 plus or minus

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:09 pm

David wrote:You're pretty funny, SM.
Believer figures are all over the map with their various "body counts."
Mine aren't. You're talking to me.
David wrote:For Treblinka the claims run up into the millions.
Mine doesn't. You're talking to me.

Please list the claims you are referring to in the chronological order in which they were made, explaining the methodology used for each estimate. Thank you.
David wrote:Revisionists have a saying,
"What's a few million bodies to a Holocaust Believer?"
This is neither an argument nor interesting in any way.
David wrote:Here you are trying to peddle your "estimate" as something other than a wild guess
based not on physical and scientific evidence but on goofy tales by Zabecki or Wiernik.
Guess again. And, please, stop making up BS about what I think.
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