Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by bluespaceoddity » Thu May 29, 2014 6:28 am

Nessie wrote:Well done to Eric for pointing out how Arad's response in an e-mail was not accurate and for improving my knowledge that there were some who arrived at TII and were not gassed but moved onwards to other camps.

The scale of Eric's achievement is embarrassingly small and the way denier's crow about it shows how little they have to crow about.

Nessie, sorry to bother you again on this but, when did you say you read Yitzak Arad's Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 29, 2014 6:48 am

Here is the quote from Arad . page 127 Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps.

"The Jewish response to this deportation was the big uprising there. From one of the transports that arrived in Treblinka late in April 1943, some 220 young men were selected and sent to a labour camp in Budzyn, near Lubin".

Eric Hunt, who edited and forged fake eyewitness reports in his propaganda video claims that he received an email from Arad in 2014, in response to a fake email he sent to Arad under the name David Green. I think we should now review that email as another forgery by Eric Hunt. Considering David the holocaust denier has posted three forged quotes in this thread alone, suggests all holocaust deniers are forging and faking documents at the moment.

Eric Hunt has already spend time in a non voluntary psychiatric facility after pleading insanity for his last offence.

:D

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu May 29, 2014 3:58 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Here is the quote from Arad . page 127 Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps.

"The Jewish response to this deportation was the big uprising there. From one of the transports that arrived in Treblinka late in April 1943, some 220 young men were selected and sent to a labour camp in Budzyn, near Lubin".


Arad's book is quite a few years old now. Much of the information is somewhat out of date. You cannot rely on something Arad wrote thirty years ago as representative of the latest Holocaust paradigm. Please catch up on the latest research by tracking down articles about Treblinka that have been produced by no-name scholars attached to virtually unknown institutions and published in obscure peer-reviewed journals that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Eric Hunt, who edited and forged fake eyewitness reports in his propaganda video claims that he received an email from Arad in 2014, in response to a fake email he sent to Arad under the name David Green. I think we should now review that email as another forgery by Eric Hunt. Considering David the holocaust denier has posted three forged quotes in this thread alone, suggests all holocaust deniers are forging and faking documents at the moment.


Yes, I agree with you. Because shrunken heads and Jew fat soap were accepted as evidence in the Nuremberg trials we can dismiss all the evidence from those trials. That makes perfect sense. Your problem now is proving that the email from Arad to Mr. Hunt is a forgery or that David has faked quotes and documents. Thus far you have failed miserably at showing us that.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu May 29, 2014 4:33 pm

Here's a clear example of how Hunt deliberately misquoted, in this very thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395540
gaschamberhoax wrote:Here's another sidestep -

...

But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop. The transports were sent to other camps and they went via Treblinka in transit.
On 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka.
On 24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
On 8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,
and on 17 September, transport “PJ 1025" (50 wagons) of Jews from Minsk Litewski was sent to Chelm (in fact to Sobibor).
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html


...



"But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop." correctly reads: "But the action to annihilate the Jews did not stop." http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Nessie » Thu May 29, 2014 6:25 pm

David wrote:.......

After reading BS's bullsh*t about "genuine scholars of these camps" I went back and looked at what one of these "genuine scholars" wrote:

Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at
Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"


The "Scholar's" answer, "Dear David Green, Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction-to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent [sic] to other camps."

Looks like BS can't read very well and Nessie isn't the only one educated by
Mr. Hunt's efforts.

So, that is a question for you,bluespaceoddity,
Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at Treblinka II, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent to other camps or were?"

Can you do any better than Dr. Arad?


A brief, incorrect email to one person is all you have. That is it. To go on and claim Hunt has made some major achievement about the history of TII is an utter nonsense.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Nessie » Thu May 29, 2014 6:27 pm

bluespaceoddity wrote:
Nessie wrote:Well done to Eric for pointing out how Arad's response in an e-mail was not accurate and for improving my knowledge that there were some who arrived at TII and were not gassed but moved onwards to other camps.

The scale of Eric's achievement is embarrassingly small and the way denier's crow about it shows how little they have to crow about.

Nessie, sorry to bother you again on this but, when did you say you read Yitzak Arad's Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps?


I have already said I had not read it

viewtopic.php?p=407988#p407988
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu May 29, 2014 10:43 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:. . . articles about Treblinka that have been produced by no-name scholars attached to virtually unknown institutions and published in obscure peer-reviewed journals that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands.
Like Polish?
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Arad's Goof and false history

Post by David » Thu May 29, 2014 10:47 pm

Nessie wrote:
A brief, incorrect email to one person is all you have. That is it. To go on and claim Hunt has made some major achievement about the history of TII is an utter nonsense.



Hello Nessie.
First, the Tale that no one left Treblinka alive but the Escapees during the so-called
Revolt is very common.
"Only 67 people survived Treblinka. As of March 2014, only two remain alive."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... linka.html

"The Treblinka 'death factory' was located in occupied Poland but was destroyed by the Nazis at the end of the war as they tried to cover their tracks.
Less than 70 Treblinka prisoners survived the war – they were a small part of the slave-labour prisoners who attacked guards and escaped the camp."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3396nxgDt

Only 67 prisoners are known to have survived the camp, fleeing in 1943 shortly before Treblinka was destroyed.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life- ... es-1248242

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is mum on the matter.
So is the Yad Vashem.

So, the fact that thousands of deportees were transferred OUT of Treblinka seems to
be a "secret story" of Holocaust Belief and the tale that "only 67 people are known to
have survived the Camp" is widely promulgated by various Believer websites and
the media.
Of course, I am sure that Statistical Mechanic has written to these papers and
websites to correct the incorrect information. :lol:
He does have such a concern for accuracy! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

As to the meaning of these transfers out of Treblinka. They are an obviously important
indication that the current theories of German policies are incorrect.
For all the arm-waiving and supercilious screaming of Statistical Mechanic and other
Believers, they have offered no reasonable explanation for these transfers, let alone
any evidence.

So, Mr. Hunt has found a very interesting piece of information.
The Believer experts will try to ignore it, like they have in the past.




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Arad's Goof

Post by David » Thu May 29, 2014 10:59 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Here's a clear example of how Hunt deliberately misquoted, in this very thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395540
gaschamberhoax wrote:Here's another sidestep -

...

But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop. The transports were sent to other camps and they went via Treblinka in transit.
On 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka.
On 24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
On 8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,
and on 17 September, transport “PJ 1025" (50 wagons) of Jews from Minsk Litewski was sent to Chelm (in fact to Sobibor).
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html


...



"But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop." correctly reads: "But the action to annihilate the Jews did not stop." http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html

Hello scrmbldggs- Excuse me but I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went.
The number keeps getting bigger

For example, turns out that hundreds of people went from Treblinka II to Treblinka I.
That is another "Untold Tale of the Holocaust" out of the Extermination Factory into the labor camp.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 29, 2014 11:50 pm

Mary Q Contrary the holocaust denier wrote: You cannot rely on something Arad wrote thirty years ago as representative of the latest Holocaust paradigm.
So David and Eric Hunt, the holocaust deniers, were simply lying about "Arad's Goof" because Arad did state a small number of people were transferred from Treblinka II to other camps as it was closing. Thanks for the update.
:D

So where exactly does Eric Hunt calculate his new 10,000 figure from, in his video?........please tells us....unless, of course, you already know Eric is lying.

Do you now agree that Eric Hunt is quite mad and made that figure up?

:D

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu May 29, 2014 11:56 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:. . . articles about Treblinka that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Like Polish?


Now that was funny. How dare those Polish people talking about Polish genocide write articles in Polish for Polish judicial commissions. They should only make English language 46 minute TV show that Mary the holocaust denier, can watch on History Channel.

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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 12:07 am

Eric Hunt on CODOH forum wrote:"(My) documentary shows proof that approximately 10,000 Jews were transited"
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Excuse me but I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went.
Really?, well let's start with Eric Hunt's video. Eric Hunt claims his video lists 10,000 people. Have you watched it? Who is the first and last person identified in Eric's films and where was he sent?
:mrgreen:

(As I warned you.....Eric Hunt is going to be the new "Richard Krege". I can't stop laughing. You idiot holocaust deniers gave money to a delusional person from a psychiatric hospital, to make a video and told everyone how wonderful his evidence is, yet none of you actually watched his video. Holocaust deniers are really really stupid.)

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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 30, 2014 12:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Eric Hunt on CODOH forum wrote:"(My) documentary shows proof that approximately 10,000 Jews were transited"
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Excuse me but I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went.
Really?, well let's start with Eric Hunt's video. Eric Hunt claims his video lists 10,000 people. Have you watched it? Who is the first and last person identified in Eric's films and where was he sent?
:mrgreen:

(As I warned you.....Eric Hunt is going to be the new "Richard Krege". I can't stop laughing. You idiot holocaust deniers gave money to a delusional person from a psychiatric hospital, to make a video and told everyone how wonderful his evidence is, yet none of you actually watched his video. Holocaust deniers are really really stupid.)
Do they want us to re-run this entire thread so that we can see again how Hunt distorts testimonies, is careless to the point of deceit with places, counts the same people multiple times to inflate his number, misleads people about what historians have found, butchers the camp's chronology, and so on?
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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri May 30, 2014 12:33 am

David wrote:. . . So, the fact that thousands of deportees were transferred OUT of Treblinka seems to
be a "secret story" of Holocaust Belief and the tale that "only 67 people are known to
have survived the Camp" is widely promulgated by various Believer websites and
the media.
Of course, I am sure that Statistical Mechanic has written to these papers and
websites to correct the incorrect information. :lol:
He does have such a concern for accuracy! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . . .
Are you ok? Remember that in '65 already 1000s of transferees were mentioned in the Dusseldorf court judgment? Does it really bother you so much to be shown wrong that you bring out the smiley faces as a security blanket? Now, seriously, why do you ignore everything posted in this long thread?

Anyway, please answer Matthew's question - and then tell us your estimate of the number of Jews transferred from Treblinka to other camps (because that is where the small number went, to camps mostly in the KL system, not your hoped-for resettlement destinations), when they were transferred, and how you got your answer.
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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 12:58 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Do they want us to re-run this entire thread so that we can see again how Hunt distorts testimonies,
I think it is more a case of how fast they back-pedal away from any association with Eric Hunt. David and Mary are really stupid, but a couple of holocaust deniers on CODOH are already "Asking Eric questions" that Eric cannot answer.

I imagine this will follow the same storyline as "Richard Krege". Eric Hunt will disappear and in three years Bradley Smith will make a low key announcement how disappointed they were, that Eric lied like Richard ...and ask for more donations..

Richard Krege wrote:I found no soil disturbances at Treblinka II
Treblinka human Ash .jpg

Eric Hunt on CODOH forum wrote:"(My) documentary shows proof that approximately 10,000 Jews were transited"
Eric Hunt on CODOH forum in April wrote: I'll trace 10,000 more within two months, a total of 20,000 will be proven transited through the two camps
Eric Hunt on CODOH forum wrote: One of the reasons I didn't just add up the numbers on screen which add up to approximately 10,000.....
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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 30, 2014 1:02 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Here's a clear example of how Hunt deliberately misquoted, in this very thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395540
gaschamberhoax wrote:Here's another sidestep -

...

But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop. The transports were sent to other camps and they went via Treblinka in transit.
On 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka.
On 24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
On 8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,
and on 17 September, transport “PJ 1025" (50 wagons) of Jews from Minsk Litewski was sent to Chelm (in fact to Sobibor).
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html


...



"But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop." correctly reads: "But the action to annihilate the Jews did not stop." http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html

Hello scrmbldggs- Excuse me but I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went.
The number keeps getting bigger

For example, turns out that hundreds of people went from Treblinka II to Treblinka I.
That is another "Untold Tale of the Holocaust" out of the Extermination Factory into the labor camp.


So what, they also didn't survive...

Abraham Krzepicki wrote:The next day, the following incident occurred: several hundred men from a transport had been selected and sent somewhere out­side the camp. As I watched the people being selected, I didn’t know whether this would be good or bad, for us, and so I passed up the opportunity to mingle with them. About an hour later, a horde of tattered, worn-out, starving and beaten young men arrived at the camp on foot. They were immediately taken to the “showers” with the next shift of men. This had been a sort of exchange be­tween Treblinka I and Treblinka 2. The Jews over there also were put through selection. New human material was taken from our group and we received the rejects from the penal camp, who were ready to be turned into “scrap,” as the saying went.
.
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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 1:12 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: that is where the small number went, to camps mostly in the KL system


Hello SM- You are an odd fellow: I ask, "...I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went." and you demand that I present a thesis on all the people transferred out of Treblinka.

You write that "Remember that in '65 already 1000s of transferees were mentioned in the Dusseldorf court judgment?" and then babble on about the "small number."

Thousands of people is a significant number of people. You have made one stupid flop of an "explanation." Something like Zelda was sent to Majdanek for the value of her
labor skills. :roll: :roll:

Obviously, Mr. Hunt was much closer to correct than the various articles and websites which claimed that " "Only 67 people survived Treblinka."
Mr. Hunt was also more open and honest than either the Yad Vashem or the
US Holocaust Memorial Museum which avoids the subject of all these thousands of
people.

Now you begrudgingly admit, 1,000s of people were transferred out
of Treblinka.

And Hundreds were transferred out of Treblinka II to Treblinka I btw.

So Mr. Hunt, for all your attacks and smears, cared enough to try and correct the record.

Have you done anything to correct those media outlets or websites that
mistakenly overlook the 1,000s of people were transferred out of Treblinka?
I bet not.
I bet that you are a typical Believer who is happy to let misinformation spread.


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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 1:20 am

scrmbldggs wrote:For example, turns out that hundreds of people went from Treblinka II to Treblinka I.
That is another "Untold Tale of the Holocaust" out of the Extermination Factory into the labor camp.
[/color]


So what, they also didn't survive...

Abraham Krzepicki wrote:The next day, the following incident occurred: several hundred men from a transport had been selected and sent somewhere out­side the camp. As I watched the people being selected, I didn’t know whether this would be good or bad, for us, and so I passed up the opportunity to mingle with them. About an hour later, a horde of tattered, worn-out, starving and beaten young men arrived at the camp on foot. They were immediately taken to the “showers” with the next shift of men. This had been a sort of exchange be­tween Treblinka I and Treblinka 2. The Jews over there also were put through selection. New human material was taken from our group and we received the rejects from the penal camp, who were ready to be turned into “scrap,” as the saying went.
[/quote]

Why do you say that people sent to Treblinka I did not survive?
Other than it allows you to ignore these transfers out of Treblinka II.
My impression is that there were various escapes and transfers out of Treblinka I.
Further, TI inmates worked at the Quarry and loaded all the trains at the Quarry.
Abraham Krzepicki's quote shows that communication between TI and TII was
common.


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Treblinka I

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 1:25 am

The following quote, regarding the Treblinka I camp, is from Martin Gilbert's book entitled "The Holocaust":

The Jewish and Polish prisoners living there (Treblinka) were employed loading slag, cleaning drains and leveling the ground in and around the engine shed at Malkinia Junction, on the main Warsaw-Bialystok line. Later they were put to work repairing and strengthening the embankment along the Bug river.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... ction.html


Sounds like the security around Treblinka I was less than Believers admit.


Also, apropos of all the Denial of the number of transfers out of Treblinka and
SM "explanation" of selections for labor.
"There were no "selections" made at the three Operation Reinhard camps, nor at the Chelmno camp. All the Jews who were sent to these camps, with the exception of a few who escaped, were immediately killed in gas chambers. There were no records kept of their deaths.

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Re: Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 30, 2014 1:48 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:For example, turns out that hundreds of people went from Treblinka II to Treblinka I.
That is another "Untold Tale of the Holocaust" out of the Extermination Factory into the labor camp.
[/color]


So what, they also didn't survive...

Abraham Krzepicki wrote:The next day, the following incident occurred: several hundred men from a transport had been selected and sent somewhere out­side the camp. As I watched the people being selected, I didn’t know whether this would be good or bad, for us, and so I passed up the opportunity to mingle with them. About an hour later, a horde of tattered, worn-out, starving and beaten young men arrived at the camp on foot. They were immediately taken to the “showers” with the next shift of men. This had been a sort of exchange be­tween Treblinka I and Treblinka 2. The Jews over there also were put through selection. New human material was taken from our group and we received the rejects from the penal camp, who were ready to be turned into “scrap,” as the saying went.


Why do you say that people sent to Treblinka I did not survive?
Other than it allows you to ignore these transfers out of Treblinka II.


Do you know what this sentence means: "This had been a sort of exchange be­tween Treblinka I and Treblinka 2. The Jews over there also were put through selection. "New human material was taken from our group and we received the rejects from the penal camp, who were ready to be turned into “scrap,” as the saying went."
And this one: "They were immediately taken to the “showers” with the next shift of men." ?


David wrote:My impression is that there were various escapes and transfers out of Treblinka I.


Got any evidence of "various escapes and transfers out of Treblinka I"? Beyond the Jewish ones condemned to death I just quoted, of course.


David wrote:Further, TI inmates worked at the Quarry and loaded all the trains at the Quarry.
Abraham Krzepicki's quote shows that communication between TI and TII was
common.



So what. Some TI workers (red patches) also worked at TII. What's so surprising about using slave labor as needed within the system?

TI was a large penal facility that not only worked the quarry. It also held Polish prisoners (and others, AFAIK) but kept them and the Jewish prison population mostly separate.
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri May 30, 2014 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 1:49 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Hello SM- You are an odd fellow: I ask, "...I am more interested in trying to learn the number of people and transports that left Treblinka and where the people went." and you demand that I present a thesis on all the people transferred out of Treblinka.
You have presented Eric Hunt's film as evidence. Why can't you quote from Eric's film?
:D

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Obviously, Mr. Hunt was much closer to correct than the various articles and websites which claimed that " "Only 67 people survived Treblinka."
And where is that in Eric's film David? Eric claim he found 10,0000. Are you saying you can't find one example in Eric's film?

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:So Mr. Hunt, for all your attacks and smears, cared enough to try and correct the record.
And where is that in Eric's film David? Eric claim he found 10,0000. Are you saying you can't find one example in Eric's film?

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:I bet that you are a typical Believer who is happy to let misinformation spread.
So when are you going to show us the evidence in Eric Hunt's film? You have seen Eric's film haven't you? :mrgreen:

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri May 30, 2014 6:07 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:. . . articles about Treblinka that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Like Polish?


Now that was funny. How dare those Polish people talking about Polish genocide write articles in Polish for Polish judicial commissions. They should only make English language 46 minute TV show that Mary the holocaust denier, can watch on History Channel.


And here we have SM and Ellard the Retard saying that Polish is an obscure language. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by bluespaceoddity » Fri May 30, 2014 6:14 am

Nessie wrote:Well done to Eric for pointing out how Arad's response in an e-mail was not accurate and for improving my knowledge that there were some who arrived at TII and were not gassed but moved onwards to other camps.

The scale of Eric's achievement is embarrassingly small and the way denier's crow about it shows how little they have to crow about.

Nessie, there appears to be a slight misunderstanding at work here. I asked about two different publications. First I inquired if you had read "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard A Critique of the Falsehoods of Mattogno, Graf and Kues" by Jonathan Harrison, Roberto Muehlenkamp, Jason Myers, Sergey Romanov and Nicholas Terry. I followed up by asking if you had read Yitzhak Arad's book Yitzak Arad's "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps"? It doesn't matter that much, because - with all due respect - you don't matter that much. Not as a source of information, that is. Neither do I. We don't fill libraries. We're the comment section in the paper. Litter box liners of the twenty first century. Does paper still have some utility after all? Neither does Eric Hunt, matter. I think it is reasonable to evaluate his output on a slightly higher standard than yours, or mine for that matter. To disavow him of that pretence.

Eric Hunt would not have released his first Treblinka related video if Eric Hunt had been as familiar with the existing literature of Treblinka as Statistical Mechanic and Nick Terry. Had Eric Hunt been as honest a person as he likes to present himself he certainly would not have released his second video - incorporating the same material.

Arguably it is unreasonable to expect someone just reading along on a forum to be up to speed with the existing scholarship, in any language. Arguably it helps to get informed while a thread unfolds but as someone already pointed out this is an open forum. Anyone can post who manages the registration process. Hardly any quality control. I think it can be said, however, that it is a prerequisite for someone trying to advance a novel interpretation of history. Eric Hunt fancies himself a bit of a scholar. You are aware that Friedrich Paul Berg has recommended Eric Hunt for an honorary Ph. D., presumably for contributions to the field of historical science. At the YouTube academy there are some peers who seem quite eager to bestow the honour. They have such disdain for academia but such longing to be recognised at the same time.

Based on Hunt's video, his Word doc tables and his commentary on message boards and in interviews, Eric Hunt had no grasp of the dates on which people were transported. The people whose statements are the central core of his scholarly videos. That happens, I think. Especially, if one is truly advancing a field. Working in the gaps. Shrinking them by making new ones on either side. Gaps that can never be quite filled, for "True Skeptics".

The core of videos for which Hunt couldn't write a footnoted summary even if his livelihood depended on it. That does not happen. Eric Hunt fancies himself the curator of a virtual museum of an alternate universe - it will rival anything in existence, particularly in production values. Eric Hunt operates on the slogan that any press is good press. Judging by his reaction to attention from the ADL, Eric Hunt works according to the Hollywood principle that it doesn't matter what they say about you as long as they are talking about you.

"Six million killed in gas chambers, eehhr m.mostly in gas chambers ... and then, eehhr, some random, you know, eerhrhh, shootings" -- That's an excerpt from Eric Hunt's radio address the other day. He's like a modern day Churchill, speaking directly to the people. He said that while giving a brief but slightly longer summary of the existing record during an interview. Part of his promotional fund raising tour for his scholarly videos. And I couldn't help thinking, "What a pity Hilary Earl wasn't available for that broadcast" - if only to do the intro about what really happened in the East. Then I felt ashamed. Why would I want to subject Hilary Earl to something like that? Immediately it dawned on me how much more excruciating the experience of interaction between Hilary Earl and Eric Hunt would have been for Eric Hunt. But would it have been, was my next thought? Eric Hunt doesn't appear too phased by spouting nonsense like that. He gets invited back to radio shows and receives praise from his supporters. All critics dismissed as Jews. No supporter able to correct his mistakes. Was that really why Eric Hunt got into the business? I wonder.

Since I asked you questions about your past reading it is perhaps only fair that I'll say that I have the luxury of hindsight, the benefit of coming to this thread after it had already been figured out that Eric Hunt had not properly understood the information he was presenting, let's be charitable. Transfers out of Treblinka and trains passing it by were not news to me but correlating all the interviews in Hunt's first video with specific trains would have been beyond me.

That was beyond Eric Hunt as well. He must admit. At some point. If only to himself. He's a genocide tourist with a camera and editing tools but no impact on the narrative he presumes to revise. I've never made a secret of the fact that I live vicariously through the much greater knowledge and bigger libraries of particularly those two gentlemen mentioned at the top. Statistical Mechanic and Nick Terry. They can't be Eric Hunt's target audience. He says over and over again that he makes his videos as truthful as he can. Once again with all due respect, he can't even convince you of that. So what does that say about his actual supporters? Please repeat what you said before, Nessie, if you don't mind. Can that really be satisfying for someone like Eric Hunt? He must know just enough to have figured out that what he produces is inaccurate. He must know that he can't replace libraries. Dead tree or electronic. He must know that you will read those texts, at some point, and realise even the few things you give him credit for weren't innovations.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 6:17 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: "articles about Treblinka that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands."


Mary Q Contrary wrote: And here we have SM and Ellard the Retard saying that Polish is an obscure language. :lol: :lol: :lol:
No, that was you darling. What other obscure language in documents were you referring to? Are you saying Russian is an obscure language? I speak Russian. What language are you referring to? Cant remember?
:mrgreen:

Perhaps you are reading Jurgen Graf's anti Jewish propaganda which written in Persian? :D

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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri May 30, 2014 6:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
David wrote:. . . So, the fact that thousands of deportees were transferred OUT of Treblinka seems to
be a "secret story" of Holocaust Belief and the tale that "only 67 people are known to
have survived the Camp" is widely promulgated by various Believer websites and
the media.
Of course, I am sure that Statistical Mechanic has written to these papers and
websites to correct the incorrect information. :lol:
He does have such a concern for accuracy! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . . .
Are you ok? Remember that in '65 already 1000s of transferees were mentioned in the Dusseldorf court judgment? Does it really bother you so much to be shown wrong that you bring out the smiley faces as a security blanket? Now, seriously, why do you ignore everything posted in this long thread?

Anyway, please answer Matthew's question - and then tell us your estimate of the number of Jews transferred from Treblinka to other camps (because that is where the small number went, to camps mostly in the KL system, not your hoped-for resettlement destinations), when they were transferred, and how you got your answer.


So everybody has known about thousands of Jews transiting through Treblinka since at least 1965 and Yad Vashem and USHMM big wigs are telling the general public that Treblinka was an extermination camp as recently as 2014? How stupid are these people?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri May 30, 2014 6:31 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: "articles about Treblinka that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands."


Mary Q Contrary wrote: And here we have SM and Ellard the Retard saying that Polish is an obscure language. :lol: :lol: :lol:
No, that was you darling. What other obscure language in documents were you referring to? Are you saying Russian is an obscure language? I speak Russian. What language are you referring to? Cant remember?
:mrgreen:

Perhaps you are reading Jurgen Graf's anti Jewish propaganda which written in Persian? :D


Yes, I was thinking Statistical Mechanic probably thinks Russian is an obscure language as well.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri May 30, 2014 6:37 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Here is the quote from Arad . page 127 Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: The Operation Reinhard Death Camps.

"The Jewish response to this deportation was the big uprising there. From one of the transports that arrived in Treblinka late in April 1943, some 220 young men were selected and sent to a labour camp in Budzyn, near Lubin".

Eric Hunt, who edited and forged fake eyewitness reports in his propaganda video claims that he received an email from Arad in 2014, in response to a fake email he sent to Arad under the name David Green. I think we should now review that email as another forgery by Eric Hunt. Considering David the holocaust denier has posted three forged quotes in this thread alone, suggests all holocaust deniers are forging and faking documents at the moment.

Eric Hunt has already spend time in a non voluntary psychiatric facility after pleading insanity for his last offence.

:D


And here Matthew Ellard is saying the Jews giving testimony for the Survivors of the Shoah project are fake!! :lol: :lol: They don't really exist!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 30, 2014 6:40 am

Miss Comprehension?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by bluespaceoddity » Fri May 30, 2014 6:59 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Miscomprehension?

Let's be charitable.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 30, 2014 7:00 am

Better? :-P
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 7:04 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: "articles about Treblinka that are written in nearly extinct eastern European languages that nobody understands."


Mary? You ran away again. What is the obscure language you are referring to? Did you just make this up like David does?

Cant remember?

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri May 30, 2014 7:10 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Eric Hunt, who edited and forged fake eyewitness reports in his propaganda video......
Mary Q Contrary wrote:And here Matthew Ellard is saying the Jews giving testimony for the Survivors of the Shoah project are fake!! :lol: :lol: They don't really exist!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Mary, Mary, Mary....Are you having a bad hair day today Mary? You seem challenged by simple English comprehension.

David has had a couple of bad strokes. What's your excuse?

:D

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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by bluespaceoddity » Fri May 30, 2014 8:58 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:So everybody has known about thousands of Jews transiting through Treblinka since at least 1965 and Yad Vashem and USHMM big wigs are telling the general public that Treblinka was an extermination camp as recently as 2014?
There is no reason not to. The people who knew are not stupid. That's what Treblinka was after all. People were gassed in gas chambers at Treblinka 2 and shot in its fake Lazarett while selected slave labourers received some treatment in the sickroom (To use the word Yitzhak Arad used) in Treblinka 2 as well.
People were hanged at Treblinka 1 within walking distance from the pool there.

"Everybody" - USHMM at a minimum- has known about pre-selection in Warsaw too, yet Eric Hunt apparently thought it conflicted with his production values to mention that properly in his videos as well.

There are people who only consider Ursula Stern and Selma Wijnberg survivors of Sobibor from the Westerbork transports because they remained in the camp until the revolt in that extermination camp. To them Jules Schelvis is not a Sobibor survivor, even though he was selected there upon arrival. I don't agree with such a distinction but I can at least understand it.
To Eric Hunt, the journey west by Jules Schelvis is proof of resettlement in the East. That makes no sense to me at all.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri May 30, 2014 4:17 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Here's a clear example of how Hunt deliberately misquoted, in this very thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395540
gaschamberhoax wrote:Here's another sidestep -

...

But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop. The transports were sent to other camps and they went via Treblinka in transit.
On 18 August 1943, a transport of Jews “PJ 201" (32 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the transport “PJ 203" (40 wagons) went to Lublin from Bialystok via Treblinka.
On 19 August, the last transport of Jews from Bialystok, “PJ 204" (39 wagons), arrived at Treblinka.
On 24 August, transport “PJ 209" (9 wagons) went to Lublin via Treblinka.
On 8 September, transport “PJ 211" (31 wagons) was sent to Lublin,
and on 17 September, transport “PJ 1025" (50 wagons) of Jews from Minsk Litewski was sent to Chelm (in fact to Sobibor).
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html


...



"But the action to TRANSIT the Jews did not stop." correctly reads: "But the action to annihilate the Jews did not stop." http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/zabeckirevolt.html


You're really getting desperate. I'm sorry if Eric Hunt's snark confused you. Can you come up with something truly dishonest? Look to Matthew Ellard for guidance. Just about everything he says is a lie.
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Re: Arad's Goof and false history

Post by Nessie » Fri May 30, 2014 4:21 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote:
A brief, incorrect email to one person is all you have. That is it. To go on and claim Hunt has made some major achievement about the history of TII is an utter nonsense.



Hello Nessie.
First, the Tale that no one left Treblinka alive but the Escapees during the so-called
Revolt is very common.
"Only 67 people survived Treblinka. As of March 2014, only two remain alive."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... linka.html

"The Treblinka 'death factory' was located in occupied Poland but was destroyed by the Nazis at the end of the war as they tried to cover their tracks.
Less than 70 Treblinka prisoners survived the war – they were a small part of the slave-labour prisoners who attacked guards and escaped the camp."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3396nxgDt

Only 67 prisoners are known to have survived the camp, fleeing in 1943 shortly before Treblinka was destroyed.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life- ... es-1248242

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is mum on the matter.
So is the Yad Vashem.

So, the fact that thousands of deportees were transferred OUT of Treblinka seems to
be a "secret story" of Holocaust Belief and the tale that "only 67 people are known to
have survived the Camp" is widely promulgated by various Believer websites and
the media.
Of course, I am sure that Statistical Mechanic has written to these papers and
websites to correct the incorrect information. :lol:
He does have such a concern for accuracy! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

As to the meaning of these transfers out of Treblinka. They are an obviously important
indication that the current theories of German policies are incorrect.
For all the arm-waiving and supercilious screaming of Statistical Mechanic and other
Believers, they have offered no reasonable explanation for these transfers, let alone
any evidence.

So, Mr. Hunt has found a very interesting piece of information.
The Believer experts will try to ignore it, like they have in the past.





Those linked to reports are accurate. They are about escapes and other survivors from inside TII. The transits involved people who under went a selection on arrival and then continued on. You and Hunt are trying to make out those transits mean people arrived at TII, entered, were medicalled or showered or processed in some way, they stayed within the camp for some time and then went on. But you cannot evidence that. The evidence shows selections outside and either back on the train or stay in the carriage. No showers, no medical, no nothing.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri May 30, 2014 4:57 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:...I'm sorry if Eric Hunt's snark confused you. Can you come up with something truly dishonest?

Thanks for demonstrating what your problem is.


gaschamberhoax wrote:...
I replaced that "ANNIHILATE" lie with the truth - transit - ...
...
Look at what the power of ONE WORD is - they came to the conclusion that they were "annihilated" when there is clearly no proof of that!
...
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=22854&start=360#p395659



Since the gas chambers had not been destroyed in the revolt, they continued to function and the last victims from Bialystok were gassed on 21 August 1943.
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... linka.html
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Being a Skeptic and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 10:24 pm

Nessie wrote:


Those linked to reports are accurate. They are about escapes and other survivors from inside TII. The transits involved people who under went a selection on arrival and then continued on. You and Hunt are trying to make out those transits mean people arrived at TII, entered, were medicalled or showered or processed in some way, they stayed within the camp for some time and then went on. But you cannot evidence that. The evidence shows selections outside and either back on the train or stay in the carriage. No showers, no medical, no nothing.[/quote]

Hello Nessie. I am not trying to do anything except point out that
all those Believers honking about the "Miracle 67, the ONLY Survivors of Treblinka," are wrong….now everyone has to admit that thousands went through Treblinka.
That Arad would lie about it and that various Holocaust Museums play mum, isn't anything even worth comment, is it? Why should Believer scholars be interested in telling the Truth?
As bluespaceoddity says, "The people who knew are not stupid. " No need to
confuse the public with the Facts. :roll: :roll:

As to what these thousands of tranportees did or where they stayed; I don't know the answer. They seemed to spend hours or days at Treblinka II. Some seemed to be inside the so-called Lower Camp. I think it is an interesting question but SM does consider a mere 3,000 people even worth thinking about. Why think about confusing facts?


We have BS writing, ""Everybody" - USHMM at a minimum- has known about pre-selection in Warsaw too,"
Excuse me, but you wrote "The evidence shows selections outside…"
That seems to conflict with BS's claims of "pre-selections"
Or do you think there were multiple selections?
1. Who made the selections?
2. What was the specific criteria for selections? Skilled labor? Amazing gardening skills
worth being transported across Europe for?
3. Who determined the criteria?
4. How was the criteria sent to the "Doctor on the…well, wherever you think the
selections were made ( you write, " back on the train") Do you think selections
were made inside a train?

I sorry to ask questions.
If you want to follow Statistical Mechanics lead, accept stupid "explanations and move along, that is much easier intellectually.
As bluespaceoddity says,
"The people who knew are not stupid."

Just follow the "expert scholars" like Arad.



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And when Arad lies?

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 10:57 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
gaschamberhoax wrote:...
I replaced that "ANNIHILATE" lie with the truth - transit - ...
...
Look at what the power of ONE WORD is - they came to the conclusion that they were "annihilated" when there is clearly no proof of that!
...


Hello scrmbldggs- What do you think of an
expert-scholar who intentionally distorts the evidence?



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Visit the Death Camp then go to work in Malkinia

Post by David » Fri May 30, 2014 11:35 pm

[quote="scrmbldggs"][
Do you know what this sentence means: "This had been a sort of exchange be­tween Treblinka I and Treblinka 2. The Jews over there also were put through selection. "New human material was taken from our group and we received the rejects from the penal camp, who were ready to be turned into “scrap,” as the saying went."
And this one: "They were immediately taken to the “showers” with the next shift of men." ?

And do you know what, "New human material was taken from our group" means? It means people were transferred from Treblinka II to Treblinka labor Camp. It means people from the "Top Secret Extermination Camp" mingled with Polish and other prisoners and Labor camp laborers were sent into the surrounding areas to work.
Again I quote,
The Jewish and Polish prisoners living there (Treblinka) were employed loading slag, cleaning drains and leveling the ground in and around the engine shed at Malkinia Junction, on the main Warsaw-Bialystok line. Later they were put to work repairing and strengthening the embankment along the Bug river.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... ction.html

So, do you have an explanation for these inconvenient facts?
Or do you need me to explain why they conflict with the idea that Treblinka II was
a "top secret" facility?
No wonder Arad avoided telling the truth!




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Re: Being a Skeptic and Arad's Goof

Post by bluespaceoddity » Sat May 31, 2014 4:05 am

David wrote: ... this comment has been edited further ...
We have Bluespaceoddity writing, ""Everybody" - USHMM at a minimum- has known about pre-selection in Warsaw too,"
Excuse me, but you [Nessie] wrote "The evidence shows selections outside…"
That seems to conflict with Bluespaceoddity's claims of "pre-selections"
Or do you think there were multiple selections?

Just follow the "expert scholars" like Arad.

Are the words: "and, also, as well as, in addition to, etc " broken in the obscure language you all employ or are they too difficult for you to understand?

Is "Nessie" your target audience, "David"? "Nessie" doesn't read books about Treblinka and until "Nessie" reads about those places, "Nessie" may not be able to answer your question - but "Nessie" isn't stupid either.

There is not a single "bible-like" book for the complex history of these camps. You can't conflate simplified summaries with specialised books and insinuate that you can attack the one to defuse the other. The only element from your collection of disjointed clippings from our latest comments that is worth preserving is the last sentence, without the sneer quotes. Just follow the expert scholars like Arad.

The answers will be in this thread - read forwards from the OP or backwards from the latest message. Either in the comments between those two or in the referenced texts. The answers can't be found in Eric Hunt's video.
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