Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:26 am

Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.
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Matty's invisible Wall

Post by David » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:51 am

Crazy 'emptygraves and earth banks' Matty wrote:[
The Upper Camp / Extermination Area
It was completely screened from the railroad tracks by an earth bank built by a crawler excavator. The mound was elongated in shape similar to a retaining wall which is shown in a sketch produced during the 1967 trial of Treblinka II commandant Franz Stangl. On the other sides, the zone was camouflaged from new arrivals like the rest of the camp, using tree-branches woven into barbed-wire fences by the Tarnungskommando (the only work-detail led out to collect them).[1][64] From the undressing barracks there was a fenced-off path leading through the forested area directly into the gas chambers
Pretty funny. Once the actual layout of Treblinka I and II
are discussed some more "problems" with the Ugly Treblinka Tale are found!
(Thank you Mr. Hunt)
Anyone interested in the Treblinka Tales should look at the best evidence of the
Camp's layout. An aerial photograph taken in September 1944.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Treblinka I is up the diagonal road to the left. The train tracks are visible running
past T II to the busy quarry. All around the camp are open fields.

Here is a Believer map of Treblinka.
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/maps/maptreb.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Notice that the Great Wall of Treblinka is not shown?
Here is another map
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap14.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Where is Crazy Matty's Wall? Missing...just like his layer of invisible bodies!
Yankiel Wiernik's map is at
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap23.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
See your huge mound? Don't stare too hard, Crazy Matty, you will fall off your stool. :roll: :roll:
Is Crazy Matty's huge mound in the GLAZAR MAP
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/model/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No.
Aerial photographs of the Camp?
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No.
In fact the second aerial photograph shows how totally exposed the
"extermination area" of the Camp was to views from the passing trains from the
Quarry.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Everyone should look at this aerial photograph. Every train that went by
Treblinka II would have looked right at the "Top Secret" area.

Hey, Crazy Matty, do you think your amazing invisible mound will show up in Sturdy-Colls report. Just like your layer of invisible bodies?

The amazing Wall Tale is just like all the other pile of convoluted Tales you
bray out. It is contradicted by physical and photograph evidence and by all but
one of your handful of "eye witnesses."
Last edited by David on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hunt right Believer "Scholars" lie.

Post by David » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:06 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You have it bassackwards, scrm.
It is now absolutely clear that thousands of people were transferred OUT of
Treblinka II.
There is lots of evidence confirming what Mr. Hunt said.
Mr. Hunt was totally right and Arad was foolishly wrong.

The point really is how dishonest Believer "Scholars" are.
All these transfers out of an alleged "Extermination Camp" are inconvenient facts.
Believer experts have mumbled about them in the past but have swept them
under the rug. I cited all the media hype about the "Miracle 67 Survivors."
Neither the USHMM nor the Yad Vashem even mention the thousands of other
survivors. Even today, SM is trying to slither away from the evidence.
It is an astounding intellectual and historical dishonesty.



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Re: Matty's invisible Wall

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:12 am

David the quote faking holocaust denier wrote:Pretty funny.
All your posts are!
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Once the actual layout of Treblinka I and II
are discussed some more "problems" with the Ugly Treblinka Tale are found!
(Thank you Mr. Hunt).
That was the BBC. Eric complained about the BBC's reconstruction when he stole the footage. You should really watch Eric's propaganda video at least once, don't you think?
David the quote faking holocaust denier wrote:Anyone interested in the Treblinka Tales should look at the best evidence of the Camp's layout. An aerial photograph taken in September 1944.
Treblinka II was already destroyed way before that David under Sonder Aktion1005. Didn't you know?

Please try and keep up with the rest of us.

:mrgreen:

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Re: Matty's invisible Wall

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:16 am

David wrote:
Crazy 'emptygraves and earth banks' Matty wrote:[
The Upper Camp / Extermination Area
It was completely screened from the railroad tracks by an earth bank built by a crawler excavator. The mound was elongated in shape similar to a retaining wall which is shown in a sketch produced during the 1967 trial of Treblinka II commandant Franz Stangl. On the other sides, the zone was camouflaged from new arrivals like the rest of the camp, using tree-branches woven into barbed-wire fences by the Tarnungskommando (the only work-detail led out to collect them).[1][64] From the undressing barracks there was a fenced-off path leading through the forested area directly into the gas chambers


Here is a Believer map of Treblinka.
http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/maps/maptreb.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Notice that the Great Wall of Treblinka is not shown?
I'll take this one. The pink line in the legend: Earthen Wall


:lol:
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Re: Hunt right Believer "Scholars" lie.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:17 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: All these transfers out of an alleged "Extermination Camp" are inconvenient facts.
That Arad wrote about more than twenty years ago.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Believer experts have mumbled published books about them in the past but have swept them under the rug.
Arad's book is still at the library. Where's Eric's book?
:mrgreen:

So David, where should we start watching Eric's propaganda video for Eric's evidence? You have watched Eric's video.....No?
:mrgreen:

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Re: Matty's invisible Wall

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:19 am

scrmbldggs wrote: I'll take this one. The pink line in the legend: Earthen Wall
:lol:
I wish David would use a clown as his avatar. His posts would be twice as funny.

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Re: Hunt right Believer "Scholars" lie.

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:24 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You have it bassackwards, scrm.
It is now absolutely clear that thousands of people were transferred OUT of
Treblinka II.
There is lots of evidence confirming what Mr. Hunt said.
Mr. Hunt was totally right and Arad was foolishly wrong.

The point really is how dishonest Believer "Scholars" are.
All these transfers out of an alleged "Extermination Camp" are inconvenient facts.
Believer experts have mumbled about them in the past but have swept them
under the rug. I cited all the media hype about the "Miracle 67 Survivors."
Neither the USHMM nor the Yad Vashem even mention the thousands of other
survivors. Even today, SM is trying to slither away from the evidence.
It is an astounding intellectual and historical dishonesty.


Transfers within the KL system didn't yield very many survivors.


But, please, feel free to show us the evidence of the thousands you claim to exist.
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Re: Hunt right Believer "Scholars" lie.

Post by bluespaceoddity » Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:45 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You have it bassackwards, scrm...
No, "David", the sunny side is up here. Anyone who reads those materials can see that.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:It was fewer than 2400, according to Hunt's video, data sheets, and the Shoah interviews along with other sources. How many did you say it was again? And how did you get that number?
It is a reasonable request.

Show the dates, points of departure and points of arrival of the transports and show the arithmetic.
Holocaust deniers have nothing of value to contribute to the record of history.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:22 am

Andrew E Mathis wrote:
gaschamberhoax wrote:I had no criminal record, was the captain of my tennis team, features editor of my school paper, honor student, recent college graduate, Spanish honor society, International Society Club member, no history of mental illness, either.
Yeah, not so fast on the that last one, kiddo.
He would have us believe that he was a bright young guy who was too dim and naive to know accosting Wiesel might be a problem - oh well, he saw something like it on TV. I like the part where he tells us he and his lawyer put their heads together to figure out what to put over on the judge - and then where he wallows in self-pitying victimhood because he got caught and then told porkies, he says. LOL.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:24 am

scrmbldggs wrote:You mean recruiting people to do this?
gaschamberhoax wrote:I wish people like Mary wouldn't waste their time, and would rather try to contact new people, 50 to 100 a day, send them an email link to a Revisionist video.
Eric should be careful what he wished for. Maryzilla was a huge flop at this on another forum; many were convinced indeed that Maryzilla was a bigot and didn't know jack.
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Re: And I only Believe in Baby Bonfires

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:33 am

David wrote:It is rather odd to see a pack of Believers preaching faith in tales of millions of
disappearing bodies, amazing sick tales of diesel "gas chambers," pregnant women
exploding in cremation fires, a Gold Rush to find gold teeth going on and on about
how someone who does not believe their incredible tales is "crazy."
More power to crazies, then.

More to the point. these Believers are all running away from the important information
Mr. Hunt found.
I add that Mr. Hunt's basic point has been confirmed by documents and records. There is no doubt Mr. Hunt is right.
To put it simply, Mr. Hunt showed that a top "Holocaust Expert" was ridiculously wrong on an important fact, i.e.. thousands and thousands of people were TRANSFERRED OUT OF TREBLINKA II.
The idiot Believers in this thread should fall on their knees and thank Mr. Hunt!
But, like Dogs that return to their vomit the Believers cannot comprehend the
clear evidence and keep going back to the incorrect claim of Arad.
WE should add a new proverb,
The Squealing of Believers is music to a Skeptic
Actually, not really but this what is going on in this thread.
Speaking of running away, David, Eric Hunt seems content to wallow in self-pity, escalate his fantasies, and try hurling lame insults. Too busy to deal with the specific critique of his figures, methods, accuracy in this thread.

As you appear to have been, too. Maybe you can help him out:
1) Where are the criticisms of his claims incorrect?
2) How many transfer transports were there, with how many transferees each, and how do you know?
3) Have you watched Hunt's video - who is the first and last person identified in it and where was each sent?
4) Tell us your estimate of the number of Jews transferred from Treblinka to other camps (because that is where they went, to camps mostly in the KL system, not your hoped-for resettlement destinations), when they were transferred, and how you got your answer.

These are simple questions, David, for someone who claims,
The idiot Believers in this thread should fall on their knees and thank Mr. Hunt!
But, like Dogs that return to their vomit the Believers cannot comprehend the clear evidence and keep going back to the incorrect claim of Arad.
(In point of fact, we don't keep going back to Arad, whatever that means; I've cited his book, where he does mention some but not all the known transfers - but I've also cited better IMHO sources as well as shown how Hunt's own sources add up to fewer than 2,400 - not the 20,000, 200,000, or whatever claim he has cycled to by now.)
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:35 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And Mencel, Schwindt, and Berger. Sigh.
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Re: Hunt right Believer "Scholars" lie.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:41 am

David wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Post # 105, page 3, Mar 09, 2014:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So we have Poliakov, Reitlinger, the Dusseldorf court, and Kranz all discussing transfers from Treblinka no matter how much David and Eric Hunt claim no one has known about such transfers. The first statements about these transfers date to the 1950s and 1960s.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You have it bassackwards, scrm.
No, all the people mentioned by scrmbldggs as well as at least Berger, Schwindt, and Mencel, along with Harrison et al, were discussing transfers before Hunt.
David wrote:It is now absolutely clear that thousands of people were transferred OUT ofTreblinka II. There is lots of evidence confirming what Mr. Hunt said.
Again, how many 1000s? And what evidence? Specifically, not the pathetic general blether that Hunt showed it (because we destroyed his claims) or the even more loony "there's lots more to come" or whatever.
David wrote:ll these transfers out of an alleged "Extermination Camp" are inconvenient facts.
So inconvenient that various specialist scholars have been writing about these transfers for years. LOL.
David wrote:Believer experts have mumbled about them in the past but have swept them
under the rug.
By including details concerning the transfers in books and articles. LOL.
David wrote: Even today, SM is trying to slither away from the evidence.
It is an astounding intellectual and historical dishonesty.
By citing it? By calculating a reasonable estimate? By having written on another forum about the evidence before Hunt's video was ever released? (David's capacity for self-delusion seems equal to Hunt's, if his skills at self-promotion are more feeble.)

Answer the questions you've been asked, David, or admit you can't.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:07 pm

Eric Hunt still not got his wits about himself enough to return to real debate on his specious claims?
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Post by David » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Eric Hunt still not got his wits about himself enough to return to real debate on his specious claims?
Hello SM- You flatter yourself. The discussion has run its course.
Mr. Hunt is a bright lad who has noticed the prevarications on the part of you Believers.
First 10 pages or so
Mr. Hunt's presented new eye witness evidence that contradicted Believers "experts" like Arad.
Now you pretend you knew about all the transfers...but kept mum about it. :roll:
Mr. Hunt showed that that thousands of people were transferred out
of the "Extermination Camp." You have denied any number not absolutely
proven...but have been forced to admit that thousands were transferred out...
I think you choked out the figure 2,500. It was probably several times that amount.

Next 5 pages or so
When asked why or how these transfers were made you came up with the
"explanation" that the victims were pulled out of the diesel chambers because they were exceptionally useful as labor....despite the fact that the transferees were sent to camps where you claim that thousands of people were also being killed.
(Consistency is not a Believer thing)

Obviously the Germans had some organization and communication regarding transfers that is still unknown but you suggested that there was a secret
understanding (or something) between the administration of labor at other camps, the organizer of the rail transport, and the (heretofore never mentioned) selectors
on the Treblinka II platform. You show no interest in thinking about that obvious
and "forgotten" issue... "German Labor Policies at the Door of the Gas Chambers."

The discussion moved along to another topic you Believers have forgotten,
the extensive connection between Treblinka I and Treblinka II. Turns out that
there was daily large scale contact between the camps and between Treblinka I
and the outside world. No wonder you Believers forget about Treblinka I!

Mr. Hunt has brought to light many significant facts that Believers omit
from their narrative. He has shown that Believer experts are either
ignorate or liars.

Mr. Hunt has taken the measure of Believer honesty.
Do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

He has moved to a more practical gathering of primary evidence and is working
on a very interesting project.




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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:09 am

Just read post # 10 by Statistical Mechanic, Mar 05, 2014: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p393594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.
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Re:

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:39 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Eric Hunt still not got his wits about himself enough to return to real debate on his specious claims?
Hello SM- You flatter yourself. The discussion has run its course.
Translation: Hunt is so pissed at how this all went down that he's decided not to explain the problems we've shown with his claims.
David wrote:Mr. Hunt is a bright lad who has noticed the prevarications on the part of you Believers.
No examples of prevarication offered, we notice.
David wrote: First 10 pages or so
Mr. Hunt's presented new eye witness evidence that contradicted Believers "experts" like Arad.
Now you pretend you knew about all the transfers...but kept mum about it. :roll:
Not quite: I actually quoted a post I'd made earlier in another forum about the Grodno transfers (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p393594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). You claimed that the "Believer gang" ignored the very source I was using (Kranz) (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p393901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). LOL. But do tell yourself what you need to.
David wrote:Mr. Hunt showed that that thousands of people were transferred out
of the "Extermination Camp." You have denied any number not absolutely
proven...but have been forced to admit that thousands were transferred out...
I think you choked out the figure 2,500. It was probably several times that amount.
I showed that by Hunt's own sources there were fewer than 2,500 sent to other camps. I hardly "choked" out any amount; in fact, I quoted (fairly early on in the thread) a 1965 court judgment putting the figure in that range. (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p394154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Neither you nor Hunt nor Marty nor Maryzilla saw fit to deal with the critical evaluation of Hunt's numbers, which showed that 2,387 were moved from or past Treblinka to other camps - not the inflated numbers Hunt tried peddling. All you've done is stick your fingers in your ears and wail that Hunt has found huge numbers: that isn't an argument.
David wrote: Next 5 pages or so
When asked why or how these transfers were made you came up with the "explanation" that the victims were pulled out of the diesel chambers
I never mentioned diesel chambers, and you know it (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p408071" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Nor did I ever explain the transfers as taking place at the gas chambers; I expressed doubt about Zelda Gordon's testimony on that (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p394377" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Please stop lying about what people have said in this forum.
David wrote:because they were exceptionally useful as labor....
I never mentioned the transferees having special skills of any sort, and you know it. Please stop lying about what people have said in this forum. (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p393788" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
David wrote:despite the fact that the transferees were sent to camps where you claim that thousands of people were also being killed.
(Consistency is not a Believer thing)
Further liquidation of prisoners, however, is what happened in the camps to which the inmates were moved. I argued from the outset that these prisoners were simply moved into other camps like Majdanek (see my early post on Kranz) which, in the case of Majdanek, suffered later in 1943 this action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_Erntefest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Since it is what the evidence shows, I figured it worth mentioning - as opposed to engaging with you guys in fanciful speculation about trans-settlement to the East for which there isn't any evidence.
David wrote:Obviously the Germans had some organization and communication regarding transfers that is still unknown but you suggested that there was a secret understanding (or something)
No, I informed you that the Lublin camps and AR were to some extent under the same administration and that Christian Wirth, inspector of the AR camps (formal title: Abteilung Reinhard - der Inspekteur des SS-Sonderkommandos beim SS- und Polizeiführer Lublin), worked out of Lublin. (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p394482" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
David wrote:You show no interest in thinking about that obvious and "forgotten" issue... "German Labor Policies at the Door of the Gas Chambers."
You are now incoherent.
David wrote:The discussion moved along to another topic you Believers have forgotten,
the extensive connection between Treblinka I and Treblinka II. Turns out that there was daily large scale contact between the camps and between Treblinka I and the outside world. No wonder you Believers forget about Treblinka I!
There were posts about TI, to be sure, but I don't recollect that the discussion "moved" to TI, nor does existence of TI and contact between TI/TII TI explain anything about the extermination at TII, which TI prisoners were aware of, by the way.
David wrote:Mr. Hunt has brought to light many significant facts that Believers omit from their narrative. He has shown that Believer experts are either ignorate or liars.
Except that Hunt even cites "Believer" books for some of the transfers. Except that Hunt used material from a "Believer" source for his video. Except that in this thread, and others, Nick Terry and I've cited over half a dozen "Believer" sources on these transfers - all of them preceding Hunt's "findings," some by decades.

As to people who are "igrnorate," well, I for one am flummoxed. Anyway, we do get a chuckle from how you repeat long since debunked arguments, over and over, not even responding to what is posted in these threads. This approach keeps you safe in your ignorance (!) and preserves your belief system (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p402326" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).
David wrote:Mr. Hunt has taken the measure of Believer honesty.
Do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

He has moved to a more practical gathering of primary evidence and is working
on a very interesting project.
Unable to reply to the assessment in this thread of his errors and falsehoods regarding Treblinka, you mean, he is trying another topic. LOL.
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Re: Re:

Post by David » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:32 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: snip
David wrote: First 10 pages or so
Mr. Hunt's presented new eye witness evidence that contradicted Believers "experts" like Arad.
Now you pretend you knew about all the transfers...but kept mum about it. :roll:
Not quite: I actually quoted a post I'd made earlier in another forum about the Grodno transfers (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p393594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). You claimed that the "Believer gang" ignored the very source I was using (Kranz) (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p393901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). LOL. But do tell yourself what you need to.
Hello SM. "Not quite" is appropriate. You mentioned a transport of 12 people. Now the figure is at least up to 2,500.
My point is not to natter. I was surprised by the evidence Mr. Hunt found. I (naive Skeptic that I am) actually believed people like Arad who preached that no one
left Treblinka alive except the "Miracle 67."

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Re: Re:

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: snip
David wrote: First 10 pages or so
Mr. Hunt's presented new eye witness evidence that contradicted Believers "experts" like Arad.
Now you pretend you knew about all the transfers...but kept mum about it. :roll:
Not quite: I actually quoted a post I'd made earlier in another forum about the Grodno transfers (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 54#p393594" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). You claimed that the "Believer gang" ignored the very source I was using (Kranz) (http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p393901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). LOL. But do tell yourself what you need to.
Hello SM. "Not quite" is appropriate. You mentioned a transport of 12 people. Now the figure is at least up to 2,500.
My point is not to natter. I was surprised by the evidence Mr. Hunt found. I (naive Skeptic that I am) actually believed people like Arad who preached that no one left Treblinka alive except the "Miracle 67."
Doofus, the Grodno transport numbered not 12 but 104 Jews - and I mentioned that transport, not other transports, in a discussion of, er, the Grodno transport; in addition, as I've told you a number of times, I soon after cited the Dusseldorf court and its mention of "several thousand" taken on transports as an example of what has been known at least since the 1960s.

In fact, also, Arad, with whom you guys seem obsessed, in his book mentioned a transport of Warsaw Jews through Treblinka to Budzyn, and even Hunt listed this (page 127 in Arad's 1985 book) on his worksheet. Arad also mentioned February 1943 transfers of Jews from the Bialystok District, including Grodno, to Lublin. Keep ignoring what Arad actually wrote in his book: it serves your purposes to do so and is your best hope for putting across your lies.

Give it up, David, you are embarrassing yourself, and your cause, with your dishonest and repetitive posts on this topic.
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Re:

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:54 am

David wrote:Mr. Hunt is a bright lad who has noticed the prevarications on the part of you Believers.
Eric Hunt is a convicted criminal, sent to a non voluntary psychiatric facility after suffering delusions.

First 10 pages or so
David wrote:Mr. Hunt's presented new eye witness evidence that contradicted Believers "experts" like Arad.
Within a week, Skeptics transcribe the original and edited testimonies and discover that Eric Hunt has faked and edited testimonies. In the Heinz Rosenberg analysis Eric Hunt faked a quote that Rosenberg saw Steam Chambers at Treblinka. David & Mary ignore this.

BlueSpaceOddity then posts a direct quote from Arad, where Arad confirms transfers from Treblinka, thus negating Eric Hunt's claim that these are never mentioned by Arad. Eric Hunt retaliates and states that his documentary "proves 10 of thousands were transferred from Treblinka" on CODOH. David and Mary are asked where Eric proves this in his propaganda video. David & Mary refuse to answer. It then occurs to Skeptics that David and Mary haven't actually watched Eric's propaganda film. David & Mary refuse to say if they have watched it.


Next 5 pages or so
Eric Hunt joins the forum using the name Gaschamberhoax. Eric claims the Treblinka gas chambers are really showers. Skeptics point out there is no water or water pressure at Treblinka and water was rationed. Eric Hunt then claims the gas chambers at Treblinka were really air raid shelters with anti gas attack doors. Skeptics point out the showers had wooden roofs and can't be air raid shelters. Eric quits the forum.

Matthew gets himself suspended so Eric Hunt can finish his arguments in public. However, Eric Hunt gets into Private Message exchanges with a skeptic member.. Eric doesn't answer questions but instead promotes his Holocaust Hoax Museum which is back to being extremist, uncovering undefined Jewish conspiracies between British universities and American Jewish TV network owners.

Matthew goes back through Arad and find more examples of Arad discussing transfers , mostly near at the end of Treblinka. Matthew asks Mary to identify the dates at the bottom of each person's transfer date in their testimony. Mary refuses.


Where we are today
* David and Mary have never watched Eric's propaganda film.
* David, Mary & Eric cannot say where in Eric's film he proves ;10s of thousands were transferred out of Treblinka".
* David, Mary & Eric refuse to acknowledge that Eric faked testimonies ( Rosenberg)
* David & Mary refuse to acknowledge that Arad clearly states that transfers occurred and further ignore that the transfers were between camps and not to any resettlement.

Now back to David's claim and his new views

David a year ago wrote:There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho. Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average"
David today wrote: The discussion moved along to another topic you Believers have forgotten, the extensive connection between Treblinka I and Treblinka II. Turns out that there was daily large scale contact between the camps and between Treblinka I and the outside world. No wonder you Believers forget about Treblinka I!
David? Tell us exactly about the extensive connection between the two camps? It that the German use of the dragline excavators at both camps to dig the mass graves at Treblinka II? Is that the movement of sand to cover graves to hide the evidence of genocide at Treblinka II?

David wrote:He ( Eric Hunt) has moved to a more practical gathering of primary evidence and is working on a very interesting project.

Do you mean Eric Hunt's Holocaust Hoax Museum?
http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Caroline Colls fashions herself a historical dictator, refusing to respond to Revisionist emails and refusing any question of her absurd fraudulent archaeological investigation of Treblinka. Only well-funded (by Zionists) historical dictators like herself, who make propaganda presentations regurgitating Soviet Union derived psychological warfare on television stations owned by Jewish Zionist billionaire Murray Rothstein are allowed to have a say in determining real history."
Eric has gone quite mad again.
:D

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Re: Re:

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:03 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:...

Now back to David's claim and his new views

David a year ago wrote:There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho. Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry. Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average"
David today wrote: The discussion moved along to another topic you Believers have forgotten, the extensive connection between Treblinka I and Treblinka II. Turns out that there was daily large scale contact between the camps and between Treblinka I and the outside world. No wonder you Believers forget about Treblinka I!
David? Tell us exactly about the extensive connection between the two camps? It that the German use of the dragline excavators at both camps to dig the mass graves at Treblinka II? Is that the movement of sand to cover graves to hide the evidence of genocide at Treblinka II?
:D
Matthew, I think David is talking about sending a group of worn-out inmates from TI to TII for extermination and new ones to TI.

And that happened daily according to him... wow, that must have added up!
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Re:

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:20 am

scrmbldggs wrote: Matthew, I think David is talking about sending a group of worn-out inmates from TI to TII for extermination and new ones to TI.

And that happened daily according to him... wow, that must have added up!
I must admit, I just read Arad again. I obviously didn't pay attention the first time as I missed so much. I now understand how co-ordinated the three camps were. I now understand that rather than executing all the Sonderkommado every two weeks or so, that the SS converted to holding stable Sonderkommado groups ( unless you were sick and shot). I now understand that Dutch Sonderkommando from Treblinka were allowed out of the camp to collect wood, and thus there was contact and trading with the locals in stolen Jewish property and thus the belief by locals, that there was treasure at Treblinka when the camp closed.

I also have re-read how the news about the camps reached the Polish underground and I am now aware that some Polish undergrounds groups were anti Semitic themselves, which is a problem I didn't consider before.

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Re: Re:

Post by David » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Keep ignoring what Arad actually wrote in his book: it serves your purposes to do so and is your best hope for putting across your lies.
Hello SM- You are confused about the issues.
Let me help you.

Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at
Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"

The "Scholar's" answer, "Dear David Green, Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction-to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent [sic] to other camps."

What don't you understand about Arad's answer?
How do you explain that he gave that answer when he knew it was incorrect?



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Re: Re:

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:24 am

The expert "Holocaust Deniers" reach a common consensus
David on the 13th of July 2014 wrote:Mr. Hunt showed that that thousands of people were transferred out of the "Extermination Camp
Gaschamberhoax/ Eric Hunt on the 16th of March 2014 wrote:We KNOW tens upon tens of thousands of Jews were transited through Treblinka.
Marty Wintonbury on the 23rd of March 2014 wrote:Eric Hunt has proven that hundreds of thousands were transited through Treblinka
:D
David wrote:Hello SM- You are confused about the issues.
Let me help you. Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"
Questions for Eric Hunt and David, the holocaust deniers
According to Eric Hunt's propaganda video, how many Jews ever disembarked a train at Treblinka (extermination camp) then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent to other camps? Name them as they are named in Eric's video.

Where in Eric Hunt's propaganda video does he show these hundreds of tens of tens of thousands being transferred out of Treblinka the extermination camp? ( The time signatures in the video please)

Can David quote Arad's exact words about the movement of prisoners from Treblinka extermination camp to other camps or has David never read Arad?

Has David actually watched Eric Hunt's propaganda video?

:D

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Re: Re:

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:16 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Keep ignoring what Arad actually wrote in his book: it serves your purposes to do so and is your best hope for putting across your lies.
Hello SM- You are confused about the issues.
Let me help you.

Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at
Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"

The "Scholar's" answer, "Dear David Green, Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction-to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent [sic] to other camps."

What don't you understand about Arad's answer?
How do you explain that he gave that answer when he knew it was incorrect?
David,

You wrote that Arad
Arad who preached that no one left Treblinka alive except the "Miracle 67."
I told you
Not quite.
I then cited two passages in Arad's book that contradict your claim.

I wonder why you ignore Arad's scholarly work, which clearly doesn't preach what you claim, and focus on an email sent to a random {!#%@} years after that work was published . . . LOL (Arad is 88 years old - perhaps, like other 88 year olds, he's not at the height of his powers these days . . . or at least has forgotten some of what he researched and wrote in the '80s . . .)

(As an aside, note also that Eric Hunt counts people who never disembarked a train at Treblinka, as pointed out in this thread, in his total number of transferees . . . but factual accuracy doesn't interest you.)

What is your estimate for the number transported on from Treblinka, by the way? And what is the evidence you used to arrive at it? I've told you mine, repeatedly, as well as how I got it. Along with the lies in the video Matthew mentioned a few posts ago, I've shown how Hunt distorted the numbers to pass off a grossly exaggerated, dishonest estimate.

None of you guys has even tried to show where Matthew and I supposedly have it wrong - instead you've contented yourselves with repeating the debunked BS Hunt tried putting over. Just like this last post of yours, in which you pretend we haven't in this thread discussed Arad's email, his book, etc.

SM
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:01 pm

Good summary Matthew of the rubbish these guys try to pass off as fact and the to-ing and fro-ing in the Eric Hunt affair.

Is David still writing garbidge about a "miracle 67?"

I don't think David's powers are up to much for that matter. Much less the 88 year old Arad.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Re:

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:00 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Keep ignoring what Arad actually wrote in his book: it serves your purposes to do so and is your best hope for putting across your lies.
Hello SM- You are confused about the issues.
Let me help you.

Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at
Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"

The "Scholar's" answer, "Dear David Green, Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction-to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent [sic] to other camps."

What don't you understand about Arad's answer?
How do you explain that he gave that answer when he knew it was incorrect?


It's funny how these Believers lose track of the important point. Arad says Jews were sent directly to the gas chambers. He said this last year, after a lifetime of studying this topic, in response to a question by what he believed was a person interested in this topic. Why did he lie?

Not a single person has even tried to answer that question. They sputter and stumble and make fools of themselves in general. They digress, distract, dissemble and congratulate themselves for rereading thirty year old history books that have been supplanted by more recent scholarship. But answering intelligently is just too much for them. Thank you for bringing up this important point again.
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Re: Re:

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:50 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Keep ignoring what Arad actually wrote in his book: it serves your purposes to do so and is your best hope for putting across your lies.
Hello SM- You are confused about the issues.
Let me help you.

Question to Dr. Y Arad, "Approximately how many Jews ever disembarked a train at
Treblinka, then after a period of hours or days, boarded another train and were sent further on to other camps?"

The "Scholar's" answer, "Dear David Green, Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction-to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent [sic] to other camps."

What don't you understand about Arad's answer?
How do you explain that he gave that answer when he knew it was incorrect?


It's funny how these Believers lose track of the important point. Arad says Jews were sent directly to the gas chambers. He said this last year, after a lifetime of studying this topic, in response to a question by what he believed was a person interested in this topic. Why did he lie?

Not a single person has even tried to answer that question. They sputter and stumble and make fools of themselves in general. They digress, distract, dissemble and congratulate themselves for rereading thirty year old history books that have been supplanted by more recent scholarship. But answering intelligently is just too much for them. Thank you for bringing up this important point again.
LOL
Well, I gave my thoughts - Arad forgot, I guessed, at age 88. I don't effing know, of course, why he didn't rewrite his book, in all its detail, and update it with every bit of research he missed or has been done since he wrote BST, in his email . . .

Big deal - he messed up in an email. I can say this much, this little discrepancy is not an important point to understanding what happened at Treblinka. It is a sideshow, at best.

So who is digressing, dissembling, self-congratulating - except you guys who keep ignoring what Arad wrote in BST, when the research was fresh in his mind, and what other specialists have been writing through the years?

This is where you idjits come down - Arad contradicted himself, an email he wrote to anonyclown in his late 80s not matching what he wrote in his book? This is your case? Forgive me for spitting out my tea - you guys are ridiculous.
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The New Truth

Post by David » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:36 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I can say this much, this little discrepancy is not an important point to understanding what happened at Treblinka. It is a sideshow, at best.
You are missing the obvious point…SM.
No one is arguing that Arad didn't know at least some part of the real history
of transports out of Treblinka. The point is that he lied about it.
It is the same lie repeated every time the Tale of the "Miracle 67" is blatted out.

Believers have a pattern of throwing "inconvenient" facts into a memory hole.
Arad is an example of the unreliability of Believer experts.
Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.

The moral and ethical dishonesty of Believers should no surprise to any Skeptic.
Faith in amazing miracles, "eye witness" stories of devils dancing around mouth of Hell bonfires, and disappearing bodies seem to be common amongst believers of all kinds.

Appropos of this thread A clarion call to lie about the Holocaust was printed in the
New York Review of Books under the chilling title "NEW TRUTH."
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... new-truth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is the New Truth?
The author, Professor Lilla, defines the "problem."

“Every advance in research that adds a new complication to our understanding of what happened on the Nazi side, or on the victims’, can potentially threaten our moral clarity about why it happened, obscuring the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism.”

The good Professor favorably quotes Primo Levi about the need to "simply things,"
at least for the masses!

Without a profound simplification the world around us would be an infinite, undefined tangle that would defy our ability to orient ourselves and decide upon our actions…. We are compelled to reduce the knowable to a schema.

All these "complications" can just make things so confusing!


Last edited by David on Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Re:

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:38 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:It's funny how these Believers lose track of the important point. Arad says Jews were sent directly to the gas chambers. He said this last year, after a lifetime of studying this topic
No Mary. Eric Hunt posted part of an email he said he received from Arad in response to an email Eric sent him, last year. People claimed it was fake. Amazingly a copy of this email is not on Eric's new Holocaust hoax museum.
http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mary Q Contrary wrote: "Why did he (Arad) lie?" Not a single person has even tried to answer that question.
Mary, we have answered all your questions. It is you and David who refuses to answer directions. It is Eric who has been caught fabricating testimonies in his video, ie Rosenbereg, and the Arad email seems to be another of those edited fabrications and thus has disappeared.

Mary? How are you and David going with Eric's video? Have you compiled all the names of Jews transferred out of Treblinka the extermination camp in that video for us yet? No? Gosh.......why not?,,,,,,you say there are over a thousand. Can you just list the first twenty for us? Is that too hard?
(Sound FX of Mary running away)
:D

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Re: Re:

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:56 am

David wrote:Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.
David, Can you set out and directly quote, where in Eric Hunt's propaganda video, he accounts for 2,500 to 15,000 people leaving Treblinka extermination camp? You can't can you because it doesn't exist.


http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/jewish-g ... cumentary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm even going to give you a hand. Open Eric's video using the above link and fast foward to 8.13 Seconds.

(8.13sec) (Voice over Eric Hunt) : "The following witnesses from Steven Spielberg's USC Survivors of the Shoa, visual history foundation, describe being transited at Treblinka......"

Now list those from Treblinka (extermination camp), David unless, of course, you are lying again

:D

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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:29 am

David wrote:You are missing the obvious point…SM.
No one is arguing that Arad didn't know at least some part of the real history
of transports out of Treblinka. The point is that he lied about it.
It is the same lie repeated every time the Tale of the "Miracle 67" is blatted out.
How do you know Arad lied rather than having a lapse? You entitled the thread "Arad's Goof" - which is it, an error/goof or a lie? Are we debating Arad's capabilities and recall here , or what happened in TII? (Matthew and I have both stated our views about Arad's email umpteen times - I'm not entirely discounting Matthew's view by the way . . . so why do you pretend we haven't given explanations?)
David wrote:Believers have a pattern of throwing "inconvenient" facts into a memory hole.
Arad is an example of the unreliability of Believer experts.
Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.
Speaking of lies - 1) From, as scrmbldggs has pointed out to you, post #10 in this thread, and actually before this thread ever opened, I was posting about people transported from Treblinka. 2) I've made an estimate of the number transported in this thread, which is hardly a mode of ignoring them. 3) The number transported is fewer than 2,400, an estimate I've stated and supported, yet you persist in writing empty nonsense like "to 15,000." Prove it.
David wrote:The moral and ethical dishonesty of Believers should no surprise to any Skeptic.
Faith in amazing miracles, "eye witness" stories of devils dancing around mouth of Hell bonfires, and disappearing bodies seem to be common amongst believers of all kinds.
Give me an example of my faith in miracles.
David wrote:Appropos of this thread A clarion call to lie about the Holocaust was printed in the
New York Review of Books under the chilling title "NEW TRUTH."
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... new-truth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is the New Truth?
The author, Professor Lilla, defines the "problem."

“Every advance in research that adds a new complication to our understanding of what happened on the Nazi side, or on the victims’, can potentially threaten our moral clarity about why it happened, obscuring the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism.”

The good Professor favorably quotes Primo Levi about the need to "simply things,"
at least for the masses!

Without a profound simplification the world around us would be an infinite, undefined tangle that would defy our ability to orient ourselves and decide upon our actions…. We are compelled to reduce the knowable to a schema.

All these "complications" can just make things so confusing!
Silly lad. Read the whole article. The author doesn't call for ignoring details or the inconvenient. Nor does the author celebrate simplistic schemas. The author in fact ends by condemning Arendt for maintaining her view of the world in judging Eichmann and not grappling with the truth about him, concluding that von Trotta in her film, and Arendt before her, failed to grapple with
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth;
this point, the author wrote, is brought home by what is
violated when a story celebrates a thinker’s courage in defending a position we now know to be utterly indefensible.


Continuing, the author argues, directly against what you claim, that moral simplicity and maintaining her personal perspective were both weaknesses of Arendt's:
But the other impulse, to find a schema that would render the horror comprehensible and make judgment possible, in the end led her astray. Arendt was not alone in being taken in by Eichmann and his many masks, but she was taken in.
Taking Levi's concept of the gray zone, hardly a clarion call for simplicity, as a point of departure, the author writes in favor of grappling with the full range of details in an event and against letting simplistic moral judgments and schema lead one's thought:
Besides recounting the horrifying dilemmas and unspeakable cruelties imposed by the Nazis on their victims, [Levi] also gives an unvarnished account of the cruelties that privileged prisoners visited on weaker ones, and the compromises, large and small, some made to maintain those privileges and their lives. He describes how the struggle for prestige and recognition, inevitable in any human grouping, manifested itself even in the camps, producing “obscene or pathetic figures…whom it is indispensable to know if we want to know the human species.”
Your inability to understand the framing the author uses to discuss these two films is just one more hilarious thing you've posted here. You seem unable to get anything right - and constantly score own goals with your set-pieces.

It is not lost on us that you've ignored requests from Matthew and me to spell out what you think about the transports and the evidence for your position in favor of filling up the thread with diversionary chatter and more unfounded allegations.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Re:

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.
David, Can you set out and directly quote, where in Eric Hunt's propaganda video, he accounts for 2,500 to 15,000 people leaving Treblinka extermination camp? You can't can you because it doesn't exist.


http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/jewish-g ... cumentary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm even going to give you a hand. Open Eric's video using the above link and fast foward to 8.13 Seconds.

(8.13sec) (Voice over Eric Hunt) : "The following witnesses from Steven Spielberg's USC Survivors of the Shoa, visual history foundation, describe being transited at Treblinka......"

Now list those from Treblinka (extermination camp), David unless, of course, you are lying again

:D
Thanks for this.

Now, to help David - and to give him something to shoot for, here are three posts that attempted exactly what you ask him to do, the conclusions given in all three posts ignored by David, Maryzilla, and Hunt: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p395294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p395647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p395964" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Do you think David will continue to ignore all this?

It would also be interesting to read David's take on your discussion of Hunt's lying about steam chambers and the material scrmbldggs has posted about Irene Shapiro and that others of us posted about the details of the taped testimonies.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:How do you know Arad lied rather than having a lapse?
Arad is doing what all you Believers do...ditch inconvenient facts that
"obscure the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism.”

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Re: The New Truth

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Give me an example of my faith in miracles.
I was speaking of Believers generally.
But believers seem to have a thing about disappearing bodies..ascending, transmogrification, occultations...
so (again I am assuming) do you think that all the bodies of your 6,000,000
Holocaust victims have been found or have they disappeared?

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Re: The New Truth

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:18 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Give me an example of my faith in miracles.
I was speaking of Believers generally.
But believers seem to have a thing about disappearing bodies..ascending, transmogrification, occultations...
so (again I am assuming) do you think that all the bodies of your 6,000,000
Holocaust victims have been found or have they disappeared?
And here I thought "revisionists" were the most faithful. What with the great numbers transited to "Poof-and-gone-land".
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: The New Truth

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:32 pm

David wrote:I was speaking of Believers generally.
So you can't cite any examples. Glad to have that ironed out.
David wrote:But believers seem to have a thing about disappearing bodies..ascending, transmogrification, occultations...
I don't. And you're discussing this with me, not a mythical "Believer." So stop going off on tangents for what you imagine to be rhetorical victories.
David wrote:so (again I am assuming) do you think that all the bodies of your 6,000,000 Holocaust victims have been found or have they disappeared?
False dichotomy. And you know it.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:54 pm

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:How do you know Arad lied rather than having a lapse?
Arad is doing what all you Believers do...ditch inconvenient facts that
"obscure the reality and fundamental inexplicability of anti-Semitic eliminationism.”
First of all, there is nothing "inconvenient" about the transports. So I am not sure what you're getting at in Arad's case.

Second, you said Arad lied. That's what I asked you to prove. Instead, you simply reiterated the charge and applied it to me and others whom you called Believers.

But I asked for you to explain a lie, not reiterate your opinion.

So, again, how do you know Arad lied rather than misstated, blew a memory fuse, or, in your word, goofed?

After you attend to this request, we invite you to stop ignoring this one:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Your willingness to ignore 2,500 to 15,000 transferees out of Treblinka is another.
David, Can you set out and directly quote, where in Eric Hunt's propaganda video, he accounts for 2,500 to 15,000 people leaving Treblinka extermination camp? You can't can you because it doesn't exist.


http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/jewish-g ... cumentary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm even going to give you a hand. Open Eric's video using the above link and fast foward to 8.13 Seconds.

(8.13sec) (Voice over Eric Hunt) : "The following witnesses from Steven Spielberg's USC Survivors of the Shoa, visual history foundation, describe being transited at Treblinka......"

Now list those from Treblinka (extermination camp), David unless, of course, you are lying again

:D
Thanks for this.

Now, to help David - and to give him something to shoot for, here are three posts that attempted exactly what you ask him to do, the conclusions given in all three posts ignored by David, Maryzilla, and Hunt: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 20#p395294" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p395647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 00#p395964" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Do you think David will continue to ignore all this?

It would also be interesting to read David's take on your discussion of Hunt's lying about steam chambers and the material scrmbldggs has posted about Irene Shapiro and that others of us posted about the details of the taped testimonies.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The New Truth

Post by David » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Silly lad. Read the whole article. The author doesn't call for ignoring details or the inconvenient. Nor does the author celebrate simplistic schemas. The author in fact ends by condemning Arendt for maintaining her view of the world in judging Eichmann and not grappling with the truth about him, concluding that von Trotta in her film, and Arendt before her, failed to grapple with
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Hello SM- Lilla trots out a whole parade of self-praise and bashes all the usual suspects from Arendt to " left-wing radicalism." If you believe Lillia you would believe
he were the best thing since sliced bread.
But let's focus on Lilla's amazing bullsh*t about Arendt as an example.
The professor makes an amazing claim: Arendt held, “a position we now know to be utterly indefensible—as Arendt, were she alive would have to concede”. Her odious and absurd position is Arendt’s portrayal of Eichmann as “not radically evil” and her shifting “of attention from anti-Semitism to the faceless system in which he [Eichmann] worked”.

It is worth pointing out that most historians share Arendt’s view of Eichmann. As
The BBC History website reads: “He [Eichmann] adapted to fluctuating anti-Jewish policies, and endeavored to act with dedication, being motivated by unbridled careerism, concern for his status and rank, and feelings of frustration over his failure to achieve promotion, and over the disdain exhibited towards him and his inferior education.”

Professor Lilla claims his “New Truth” is supported by “a great body of evidence”, mainly accumulated over the past fifteen years. However, he produces only one quote from a book by Bettina Stangneth. Ms. Stangneth has, according to Professor Lilla’s footnote 2, also shown that Eichmann was part of “an international network of ex-Nazis who received significant support from within the Federal Republic of Germany”. Ms. Stangneth, according to Professor Lilla, recently unraveled the “confusion, intrigue, misinformation, and disinformation” which surrounded notes and tapes made by a mysterious Willem Sassen in the 1950′s."

In fact, the Sassen notes and transcripts of the tapes are not news. They have been public and the subject of discussion since 1991. Professor Lilla forgot that
"complicating detail!"

They are rambling and contradictory. How Professor Lilla cobbled together his Eichmann quote without including contradictory statements by Eichmann is not clear but seems to involve a liberal use of ellipses. The most interesting new information about Sassen raised by Ms. Stangneth is a draft letter dated 1956 and supposedly sent by Mr. Eichmann from Argentina to the West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer, proposing that Eichmann return to Germany to stand trial. If true, that is a complicating detail indeed. (but that is a different thread)

Lilla has written a whole article bashing Arendt (claiming the have a "great body of {new} evidence while actually relying just on Bettina Stangneth! It is amazing the
brazen crap piled into the article...More Bull sh*t than was on the streets of Pamplona last weekend.

So you misunderstand Lilla and his New Truth. I did not say Lilla was modest...although
he probably has much to be modest about.
He seems to forget facts, makeup quotes, fudge the Truth all the while
hew hawing out about "moral clarity."