Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

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Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:12 pm

One of the Believers in this group reasonably asked for the evidence of
Jewish detainees being transferred OUT of Treblinka II. I am sorry but it took
a bit of time since this breakthrough evidence is being organized as part of a
video. That video is just now online.

There is no need to expand on the importance of evidence presented in this film except to note that Believer "Expert" Yitzhak Arad is entirely WRONG on the matter and
the Revisionists are now proven to be correct.

The video is at http://gaschamberhoax.com with testimonies starting around 13 minutes in.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Cerdic » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:27 pm

Let me guess - it's Gordon, and transports WEST from Bialystok.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:07 pm

Cerdic wrote:Let me guess - it's Gordon, and transports WEST from Bialystok.




I can see the Believer is already trying to down play the evidence.
Why guess, Believer?
Watch the video.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by deathonacracker » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:09 pm

David wrote:
Cerdic wrote:Let me guess - it's Gordon, and transports WEST from Bialystok.




I can see the Believer is already trying to down play the evidence.
Why guess, Believer?
Watch the video.


One reason is that we are busy and if it is the Gordon junk again, there is no freaking reason to watch it.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Cerdic » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:14 pm

Yes I am busy - doing some work currently and only briefly looked at RODOH and SSF.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:24 pm

deathonacracker wrote:
David wrote:
Cerdic wrote:Let me guess - it's Gordon, and transports WEST from Bialystok.




I can see the Believer is already trying to down play the evidence.
Why guess, Believer?
Watch the video.


One reason is that we are busy and if it is the Gordon junk again, there is no freaking reason to watch it.


Two busy little Believer bees. Cute! Working on indoctrination programs for
first graders? Maybe new laws to restrict free speech and discussion?
Anyway, The case of Harry Gordon is not "junk." It is a tragic story that you Believers can't explain.

Anyway (2) , the video is far more than one testimony and back with some documentation. As I said, it is solid evidence of hundreds of Jewish detainees being transported through Treblinka II.

It is also clear evidence about how incompetent the Believer "experts" like
Professor Arad are.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:11 pm

Transfers of small numbers of Jews covered here:
Nessie wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:Then there is no record, evidence or contemporary report of any Jew being transited on from TII.

Absolutes are troublesome when dealing with such large numbers and such complex events. Read about "Zelda Gordon" starting with this post, Nessie.

This information doesn't change our conclusion about what happened to the great number of Jews sent to Treblinka but rather forms a kind of parallel case to that of Jules Schelvis at Sobibor: that is, a minor exception to the rule.


As you said in the linked post

"..... what I want to know is how in your opinion the shipment of Gordon and 100 other young girls from Treblinka south to Majdanek and eventually, according to her ......., west to Bergen-Belsen proves a thing about resettlement of Jews to the East, as you also described the program of resettlement in the Wannsee thread."

Will watch this video this evening, although I prefer transcripts to having to play videos . . . I can never find my headphones, my wife can't stand listening to this material, and it proceeds to slowly . . .
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Transfers of small numbers of Jews covered here:
Nessie wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:Then there is no record, evidence or contemporary report of any Jew being transited on from TII.

Absolutes are troublesome when dealing with such large numbers and such complex events. Read about "Zelda Gordon" starting with this post, Nessie.

This information doesn't change our conclusion about what happened to the great number of Jews sent to Treblinka but rather forms a kind of parallel case to that of Jules Schelvis at Sobibor: that is, a minor exception to the rule.


As you said in the linked post

"..... what I want to know is how in your opinion the shipment of Gordon and 100 other young girls from Treblinka south to Majdanek and eventually, according to her ......., west to Bergen-Belsen proves a thing about resettlement of Jews to the East, as you also described the program of resettlement in the Wannsee thread."

Will watch this video this evening, although I prefer transcripts to having to play videos . . . I can never find my headphones, my wife can't stand listening to this material, and it proceeds to slowly . . .


There are several points of disagreement relative to Treblinka.
Revisionists may not be entirely correct on all our points but it is now clear that
the Believer claim expressed by Professor Arad, that all Jewish detainees
were murdered and none were transported out of the camp, is unsustainable.

The truth that hundreds or thousands of detainees spent hours or days
at Treblinka II prior to being transferred out, must have an impact on any honest Holocaust Believer.
Anyway, watch the video. Please notice what all the witnesses admit to NOT seeing.


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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:42 am

So let's review "David's holocaust denial youtube video"

The closing credits (46.30)
A film by "Eric Hunt" ( A well known holocaust denier)
Produced by "Frederick Berg and Anonymous Revisionist" (Well know holocaust deniers)
A "Twentieth Century Hoax Production (An Anglo-American-Jewish -Soviet Production)"

Citations listed for "evidence" presented in the film (46.40)
Gaschamberhoax.com ( Frederick Berg website)
Nazigassing.com ( Frederick Berg website)
CODOH.com ( The holocaust deniers forum)
VHO.com ( A defunct holocaust denial website)


Names of people who appeared in Speilberg's testimonies ( that were edited and illegally cut into this holocaust denial propaganda video) (46.57)
Irene Zisblatt, Zelda Gordon, Helen Schwartz, Eddie Bachner, Beno Bursztynski, Adam Frydman, Riva Kremer, Sam Kulaway, Runia Lunski, Curt Parker, Jean Raynor, Sol Silberweig, David Silver, Thaddeas Stabholz, Joseph Sarjman, Menachem Szkarlz, Joseph Tekulsky, Henoch Szajnberg, Jacob Rosmaryn,

Opening
The film opens to edited footage stolen from Speilbergs Shoah documentary, of holocaust victims talking about the holocaust. They are not identified individually and the names in the credit do not all appear in this propaganda, as they simply copied the closing credits from Shoah.

Voice over starts (2.05)
"It is the greatest hoax of the 20th Century and you were brainwashed to believe in it since the day you were born" "Six million Jews falsely claim to have been murdered mostly in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms"
(How do six million dead people make this claim if they are dead? However the lies start coming on rapidly)

"There are no mass graves of dead Jews"
(Oddly Caroline Colls is currently excavating the empty mass graves at Treblinka. The idiot doing the voice over doesn't know that the bodies were cremated in Sonderaktion 1005 by the Germans to hide the evidence)

"There is controlled Jewish media promoting this myth"
I'll tell Rupert Murdoch, an Aussie atheist, at the next shareholders meeting. Rupert owns 20th Century Fox.


More opening Credits
(For some odd reason we now have totally different credits)
"The German Innocence Project presents"
"The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax"

(I checked. There is no such organisation as The German Innocence Project". Eric Hunt is lying)

The lies come thick & fast (3.180
"There has never been an archaeological investigation of Treblinka"
(There have been two. The most recent in 2013 found further mass graves to those found in 1945 by the Polish State Prosecutor investigation. They don't mention Richard Krege's "investigation" because they know that was a fabrication by holocaust deniers)

"Gaudy monuments at Treblinka block future investigations"
( Staffordshire university had no problem at all using ground penetrating radar near the monuments and excavating everywhere else)

"We are meant to take the Soviet Union's word that it was an extermination camp"
The Germans commanding officers stated it was an extermination camp. So did many other German, Polish and Jewish eyewitnesses. Eric Hunt forgot this on purpose, just like our David)

"According to the hoax, he bodies were all dug back up and cremated"
(So why did this idiot say we can't show him mass graves full of bodies if he knows they were cremated?)

"Diesel Engines are not an efficient method of killing people"
The video shows one man in a modern German diesel car running a hose through the window as "evidence". It doesn't show 400 people in small airtight room being gassed with a tank engine tweaked to produce high levels of carbon monoxide replacing the reducing air, being breathed by 400 people before they died.

"The Jews were given real showers at Treblinka to keep them alive before they traveled on" This is hilarious. The idiot agrees that there were bathhouses ( gas chambers) at Treblinka but never thought to ask where the water to shower 4,000 people a day came from. Treblinka had one camp well.

"There is evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp' (8.04)
The evidence is, according to this idiot, that there are no mass graves at Treblinka, when in fact, we know they exist and have been measured.

"The Jewish eyewitnesses from Speilberg's Shoah directly say they were transited from Treblinka"
This is fun. All the actual eyewitness footage stolen from Shoah has them saying exactly the opposite. There is a voice recording of one man saying he traveled from Treblinka on 17September 1943. He is not identified at all. He states he was given a uniform at Treblinka. Treblinka was closed in October 1943 and never had prisoner uniforms as they were executed.

Other footage of eyewitness testimonies, stolen from Shoah, are then shown where they talk about food and showers and uniforms at other camps. It is edited to suggest they are talking about Treblinka extermination camp.

There is a carpenter who is removed from the Jews to be executed at Treblinka to be a camp carpenter. He is transferred to another camp. He directly says the remaining 700,000 were never seen again and executed.

There are another five doctors who are also send to another camp. There are two loads of 100 people also sent from Treblinka to Majdanek concentration camp as specialised slave laborers with uniforms. However this may be Treblinka I, the forced labour camp, which had uniforms and not Treblinka II the extermination camp which had no uniforms. Indeed the eyewitness talks about driving on roads at Treblinka which indicate Treblinka train station or forced labour camp.


The voice over continues
"Thus there is evidence that thousands and thousands left Treblinka"
No. There is evidence presented that 205 people were put back on trains at one of the Treblinkas, the railway station, the labour camp or the extermination camp.

"Because the man and women were separated they assumed that the others were gassed" No, It would be Stangl or Franz, the commanding officers of Treblinka, confessing after the war that they executed the Jews, that confirms their suspicions. They didn't know that then. They found out when they walked into the gas chamber themselves.

Victim Colour (29.38)
As this video is from Berg, the voice over person spends time claiming that the bodies should all be bright pink and no one noticed. He does not mention that the bodies putrefy and turn blue black and that the German commanding officer did notice this. "I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of black-blue corpses"

More Evidence that the holocaust is a hoax (34.04)
This is just funny. The voice over narrator says one of the Jewish eyewitnesses is obviously a paid stooge because he went on to become an actor in the 1950s. That's their evidence.

In Conclusion
This is poorly produced propaganda. The producers are unaware of the 1945 Polish forensic investigation and the 2013 & 2014 English forensic investigation that both found human remains and the empty mass graves. The producer do not mention any real evidence at all. They fail to mention.
*The confessions by both camp commanding officers and their men
* The forensic evidence of human ash covering 20,000,000 square metres photographed by the Polish investigation
* The mass burial pits discovered and excavated in 1945
* Eyewitness testimony by both Germans, Poles and Jews as to the mass executions.

This video is aimed at really stupid holocaust deniers who are unaware that Staffordshire University has finished excavating the old gas chamber and found more empty burial pits near the tree line.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:So let's review "David's holocaust denial youtube video"

There are two loads of 100 people also sent from Treblinka to Majdanek concentration camp as specialised slave laborers with uniforms. However this may be Treblinka I, the forced labour camp, which had uniforms and not Treblinka II the extermination camp which had no uniforms. Indeed the eyewitness talks about driving on roads at Treblinka which indicate Treblinka train station or forced labour camp. [/color]

The voice over continues
"Thus there is evidence that thousands and thousands left Treblinka"
No. There is evidence presented that 205 people were put back on trains at one of the Treblinkas, the railway station, the labour camp or the extermination camp.
First, thanks Matthew, for saving me the time and domestic embarrassment of playing Nazi crap on the my laptop.

Second, the Majdanek transport is making the rounds among the brain-damaged - a bit like Kues's half dozen or so Lodz Jews in Lithuania - as a supposed challenge to the "Hoax" and "proof" of resettlement. Here is a link to near the beginning of discussion of this at RODOH, when this came up a couple weeks ago there (I've heard that Berg's peddling it again just this week): Zelda Gordon started going, er, south for been-there with this post. Starting there in the thread will give some material on this Majdanek transport, and Zelda Gordon, but in case you're not up for reading through it, here is a bit I wrote:
Been-there, I have to say that Zelda Gordon's testimony is dodgy. To call her confused is to be charitable. Nevertheless, you wrote (unaware as you were writing, it would seem, that Zelda Gordon did not claim to have been sent "FURTHER EAST") about Zelda Gordon in the context of an eastern resettlement:
If people were actually resettled FURTHER EAST, evidence of what happened to them will be in other Eastern European languages and personal records that came under SOVIET control. And we all now how open they have been since the end of WW2 with records that are witnes to their OWN crimes.
But anyway, here was "one" already provided of a Treblinka survivor: Zelda GORDON and the other ONE HUNDRED! . . .
Please, can any defender of the currently accepted-H-narratives, reply to this case of these Treblinka survivors in good faith, without ridicule, insult or sarcasm.

You conflated
Treblinka survivor

with 100s of 1000s of resettled Jews, as has been pointed out. And you also wrote that
the question being answered actually was to supply "an eyewitness or two among the transitted, the administrators and the staff members of this ressettlement program who could give testimony regarding the details of this "resettlement.".
That was done. Zelda GORDON and the other ONE HUNDRED passed through a 'transit camp' and ended up somewhere else.

Of course, that Gordon and 100 others were sent through a camp to another camp is neither evidence of a resettlement program - certainly not one involving 100s of 1000s of Jews - nor that the camp they were sent on from was a "transit camp."

But what I am also struggling with is this: In the OP, "Revs" were asked not whether inmates were sometimes shipped this way or that - as is well documented that some number were - but
According to Revisionism, these Jews were on their way to the east i.e the occupied Soviet Union. What evidence is there that so many hundreds of thousands of Jews all ended up in the east?

The evidence requested was for 100s of 1000s of Jews sent east - not 100 Jews, or whatever other small number of exceptions we can list, sent to various points.

So, taking that you believe Zelda Gordon's testimony about where she was taken but not what happened in each place (e.g., gas chambers in Treblinka), what I want to know is how in your opinion the shipment of Gordon and 100 other young girls from Treblinka south to Majdanek and eventually, according to her (http://www.1939club.com/LiberationStories.htm), west to Bergen-Belsen proves a thing about resettlement of Jews to the East, as you also described the program of resettlement in the Wannsee thread.

I wonder how, in your opinion, the shipment of 100 Jews from Treblinka to the KL system supports a thesis that 100s of 1000s of Jews were resettled into areas in Russia, as Buehler described the policy of the Germans at the IMT.

I wonder how, by your accounting, 100 Jews shipped anywhere explains the fates of 100s of 1000s of Jews.

And I wonder why you think that movement of Jews amongst the various Nazi camps is news and thus a challenge to the evidence that the AR camps were designed, built, and used as death centers. Here is what Tomas Kranz wrote about this, in The Extermination of Jews at Majdanek Concentration Camp (2010) (page 24):
On 28 February [1943], 104 Jewish women were transferred from the death camp in Treblinka, to which they had originally been deported from Bialystok and Grodno. Similar cases occurred in March.

That is a clear statement, I think, and it shows that the lead historian of the Majdanek camp has indeed documented the very transport on which Gordon seems to claim she left Treblinka. (I also wonder, in the same vein, if you've ever heard of Jules Schelvis - http://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/nederlandse-overlevenden/jules-schelvis; Schelvis is a well-known survivor of Sobibor, whose wrote best study of the camp, and who has explained that, after his deportation to Sobibor, he was one of a few of those arriving selected for labor at the work-camp Dorohucza. Kranz and Schelvis explain that a small number of other Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor were transferred from the death camp to Majdanek as well.) How, in any event, is "discovery" of a transport known to historians, like the Grodno-Bialystok transport discussed by Kranz, a challenge to historians' knowledge?

FP Berg includes this bit of dissembling and presumptuous certitude on his website:
Treblinka was indeed a “transit camp” as revisionists have always claimed and NOT an extermination camp.  Many people, including Jews, arrived from various places, and after a brief stay—which included a shower, a medical exam, a change into clean lice-free clothes, and a meal—departed for other places such as Lublin and Maidanek to the south where they worked like normal people usually do, even during wartime.
http://nazigassings.com/

This description, despite acknowledging Majdanek as a destination (but prettifying that camp beyond recognition), is a thorough-going deception: a very small number of Jews sent to the AR camps were selected for labor - some within the camps themselves, some for other camps under Nazi control. This shuffling of prisoners does not a resettlement program make. And a greater number of prisoners were transferred out of Auschwitz to other labor sites, but in neither case does this fact change the larger purpose and use of the camp. And, to the point of this thread, transfers of 100s or even 1000s Jews from death camps to other camps don't provide evidence of a "resettlement program" to the East.

Note: Gordon's videotaped description, including her account of her brief time in Treblinka and how the Majdanek transfer came about, is very confused and not a good source, IMHO. That said, Kranz has discussed such a transport at roughly the same time in winter 1943.

And
Quickly then re Gordon testimony;- she places the transport of the 100 in the wrong month (did she hear about it and report something she heard?); her descriptions of the arrival and killing process are outliers. Finally her account of how the 100+ came to be sent to Majdanek doesn't match testimony I am familiar with and is internally inconsistent. Thus dubious.

Selections like the ones described by Krantz were for labor squads.

And
. . . shuffling Jewish inmates around the camps system is not resettlement, and it is not a challenge to the historiography. All this is well known - right down to discussion of the precise transport you cite as a challenge!
The thread does spiral off into a discussion of Warsaw ghetto . . .
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David shows a video from "Clown school"

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:02 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:First, thanks Matthew, for saving me the time and domestic embarrassment of playing Nazi crap on the my laptop.


It was too easy. Once I realised the video was from the Frederich Berg clown school of holocaust denial I knew exactly the lies that would be made. Secondly, I knew what real evidence would be never mentioned. I wrote my lists and slowly watched the video and additionally looked for all the editing tricks. The lies started immediately. The footage is both stolen and badly edited.

Let's ask "David" the holocaust denier to explain.
David? Do you agree with Frederick Berg that there has never been any forensic investigation into Treblinka?

David? Do you agree with Frederick Berg that no evidence of mass graves has ever been found at Treblinka?

David? Why doesn't the video mention the confessions of Stangl and Franz, the commanding officers of Treblinka who confessed to the crime?

David? Why doesn't the video mention the train records that indicate the crime that are sitting in Seildice and copies in Warsaw, where they remain to this day?

David? Do you agree with Frederick Berg, that a specialised slave labour worker transferred from Treblinka to Majdanek, two weeks before the camp closed is good evidence that that person was resettled in the Russia, when the Russian front line was already in Poland?

(Did the Germans ask the Russians to stop fighting so they could drive him through the front lines after they sneaked him out of Majdanek? Or did you work out that the man was liberated from Majdanek extermination camp in Poland by the Russians and not from a Russian village.)

:D

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Re: David shows a video from "Clown school"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:First, thanks Matthew, for saving me the time and domestic embarrassment of playing Nazi crap on the my laptop.


It was too easy. Once I realised the video was from the Frederich Berg clown school of holocaust denial I knew exactly the lies that would be made. Secondly, I knew what real evidence would be never mentioned. I wrote my lists and slowly watched the video and additionally looked for all the editing tricks. The lies started immediately. The footage is both stolen and badly edited. < snip >
:D
It is so often playing one version or another of Denier BS Bingo. Cerdic also nailed it by just reading the OP. LOL.

You make two other good points: 1) These guys are thieves. 2) They can't construct intelligible, coherent, consistent arguments.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by deathonacracker » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:33 pm

I posted the link of at RODOH 2,.0 to make Berg scream. What fun!

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by gaschamberhoax » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:31 pm

Matthew Ellard is attributing quotes to me that I never said, even writing them inside quotation marks.

What's the point of refuting his libel?

Not much, other than to show others how it's done - but I'll just debunk one specific example of his false quote attribution (followed by calling me an idiot).

A simple example of this is this - which is what he wrote -
"There are no mass graves of dead Jews"
(Oddly Caroline Colls is currently excavating the empty mass graves at Treblinka. The idiot doing the voice over doesn't know that the bodies were cremated in Sonderaktion 1005 by the Germans to hide the evidence)


I never said that, what I said is "there are no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews."

This guy's a joke considering I have a description of exactly what "Sonderaktion" is claimed to have done about 15 seconds after I say that.

I specifically said REMAINS multiple times, not bodies. Most of the REMAINS of 1 million - ashes, bone, etc., should still be in the ground. But they're not, because most were transited through to other camps.

I and other Revisionists such as Mattogno don't deny that there are mass graves there, after all, you can hear in the testimony about Jews that died on the train on the way there- they had to be buried somewhere. So there are likely mass graves there.

Mass Graves with the remains of 1 million Jews? Show us. He lies again saying Colls is "excavating the empty mass graves at Treblinka" . - but they are empty. It should be incredibly easy to show the massive pits containing the remains of 1 million Jews, but they can't because they weren't gassed and burned there as all the witnesses you see who describe being transited prove.

She has mostly not disturbed the ground or done excavation of these alleged mass graves, except on a small scale as I show in a picture of her at the beginning of the video, and I believe that was at Treblinka 2, and she's found a handful of remains, as were found at the Sobibor excavation.

The rest of his post is "shoot the messenger" namecalling.

He's a liar and attributing quotes to me which I never said is libel.

The liars need to make up quotes from their old talking points they can refute, not my real quotes or evidence.

This project has steamrolled over all their old talking points.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Nessie » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:42 pm

David wrote:........

Anyway (2) , the video is far more than one testimony and back with some documentation. As I said, it is solid evidence of hundreds of Jewish detainees being transported through Treblinka II.

.........


Please pin point the evidence in the video or summarise it. I cannot find it.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by gaschamberhoax » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:45 pm

One more refutation of the libelous liar Matthew Ellard, just for fun -

The voice over continues
"Thus there is evidence that thousands and thousands left Treblinka"
No. There is evidence presented that 205 people were put back on trains at one of the Treblinkas, the railway station, the labour camp or the extermination camp.

Liar, liar, liar.
Where the hell are you pulling the 205 from, out of your ass?

The documentation describes one single transport of 256 Jews, perhaps this is what you're referring to, backed up by a witness I show.

But the many other transports you deliberately ignore - unless you call all those Jews liars.

If you want to call the other Jews shown talking about being transited, at different times, on different trains, along with hundreds and thousands of others (you can CLEARLY listen to them say 100, 200, 500, and entire trainloads full of Jews) liars, go ahead! Call them Holocaust deniers, even better!

Add the Jews up that Mathew refuses to acknowledge - according to their own "testimony" this evidence is proof of nearly 10,000 transited through Treblinka.

Not the 205 liar Mathew Ellard wants to pull out of thin air. Par for the course for these liars.

Will he print a retraction? A revision? An apology. Don't expect it.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Maybe the Lancasters swooped in and carried it away.


Edit: ^This was written in response to Nessie's post #15 "Please pin point the evidence in the video or summarise it. I cannot find it."
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:03 pm

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:........

Anyway (2) , the video is far more than one testimony and back with some documentation. As I said, it is solid evidence of hundreds of Jewish detainees being transported through Treblinka II.

.........


Please pin point the evidence in the video or summarise it. I cannot find it.

Whoah, hundreds! Hundreds . . . so, out of 700,000+ David wants us to be focused on 100s . . . talk about a tiny tail wagging a Great Dane . . .
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:14 am

gaschamberhoax wrote: I never said that, what I said is "there are no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews."
No you complete freak. Your stupid propaganda video failed to mention once that empty mass graves were found in 1945 by Lukaszkiewicz's team and again in 2013 and 2014 by Coll's team.

You directly said that "they were cremated" at (3.18) and then argue that the holocaust didn't happen because there were no mass graves, when you knew they were there. You lied.


gaschamberhoax wrote:I and other Revisionists such as Mattogno don't deny that there are mass graves there
You just don't mention them in your video because your video is propaganda. This is the same reason you lied and said there were no investigations at Treblinka when you knew Lukaszkiewicz's team did exactly that in 1945.

gaschamberhoax wrote:Colls is "excavating the empty mass graves at Treblinka" . - but they are empty.
Most empty graves are empty. Are you confused and bewildered by this fact?

gaschamberhoax wrote:She has mostly not disturbed the ground
Colls has ground penetrating radar. Lukaszkiewicz didn't. Here is Coll's excavation of the Old gas chamber from which she obtained the floor and wall tiles.
152_TREB4-150x150.jpg


gaschamberhoax wrote: He's a liar and attributing quotes to me which I never said is libel.
Sue me. You will explain to the court the damage your name "Gaschamberhoax" has suffered. When everyone stops laughing you can argue your case.

gaschamberhoax wrote:This project has steamrolled over all their old talking points.
This comedy propaganda video failed to mention the confessions by the commanding officers Franz & Stangl, the excavation of empty mass burial pits by Lukaszkiewicz, the 20,000 square metres of ( forensically confirmed) human ash, the current excavation by Colls etc etc etc...

You said "In fact they took real disinfectant showers to keep them alive" (6.54) How do you shower 4,000 people a day from Treblinka solitary ground well? Did you really think you would get away with that lie?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: No. There is evidence presented that 205 people were put back on trains at one of the Treblinkas, the railway station, the labour camp or the extermination camp.
gaschamberhoax wrote:Liar, liar, liar.
Nice try, my little holocaust denier friend.

Write out the transcripts for your stolen edited eyewitnesses footage "getting back on the train" and show me where they all say or identify it as Treblinka II. As you are aware trains stopped at Treblinka Railway station for extended periods. You also gave a carpenter "getting on a train to Majdanek as evidence but forgot to mention that Treblinka was closed 21 days later and the camp staff was being shipped out. Your lies are just pathetic.


gaschamberhoax wrote: CLEARLY listen to them say 100, 200, 500, and entire trainloads full of Jews) liars, go ahead!
Isn't it good news then, that you are going to set out the names of each person and a transcript of what they said and how they identified they were at Treblinka II. You see two people talking about being shipped out with a 100 people are talking about the same 100 people. That's why you will refuse to offer transcripts so I can compare with their full unedited statements in Shoa and their real histories.

gaschamberhoax wrote: Will he print a retraction? A revision? An apology. Don't expect it.
No. I'm going to hunt you down to explain why you didn't mention
* the commanding officer confessions,
* the empty mass burial pits discovered,
* the investigations by Lukaszkiewicz and Colls,
* the 20,000 square metres of human ash,
* the body parts and piles of human ash in 1945 photographs,
* the lack of any train records leaving Treblinka II with settlers but records of the trains arriving with settlers,

However, as you are a coward you don't use your real name. Are you Eric Hunt?

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:44 am

Wouldn't gaschamberhoax make him Berg? You know, the guy who won a Stundie at JREF for his gas-chamber-breath-holding post . . .
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Wouldn't gaschamberhoax make him Berg? You know, the guy who won a Stundie at JREF for his gas-chamber-breath-holding post . . .


It probably is Berg. I don't have my "The "Holocaust denier" spotting guide for lovers of insane idiots" Berg is pretty comical and passed his "use by date". "David" quotes Berg quite a lot, which makes it easy for us. I don't know much about Eric Hunt who claims to have made the propaganda video.

However it is fun to know that the holocaust deniers are reading this forum. I wonder what they think about David's ongoing lies and errors.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Wouldn't gaschamberhoax make him Berg? You know, the guy who won a Stundie at JREF for his gas-chamber-breath-holding post . . .


It probably is Berg. I don't have my "The "Holocaust denier" spotting guide for lovers of insane idiots"

Me neither. I remembered that you'd posted this:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Citations listed for "evidence" presented in the film (46.40)
Gaschamberhoax.com ( Frederick Berg website)
Nazigassing.com ( Frederick Berg website)
CODOH.com ( The holocaust deniers forum)
VHO.com ( A defunct holocaust denial website)[/i]

There are no gaudy graphics and insane typography - so maybe not. LOL

Matthew Ellard wrote:Berg is pretty comical and passed his "use by date".

Well, I doubt he'll post the transcript.

Matthew Ellard wrote:"David" quotes Berg quite a lot, which makes it easy for us. I don't know much about Eric Hunt who claims to have made the propaganda video.
This Eric Hunt? http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Jury-convicts-man-in-attack-on-Elie-Wiesel-3276032.php

Matthew Ellard wrote:However it is fun to know that the holocaust deniers are reading this forum. I wonder what they think about David's ongoing lies and errors.

David and Mary do need help, but from Berg? Hunt?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:21 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Wouldn't gaschamberhoax make him Berg? You know, the guy who won a Stundie at JREF for his gas-chamber-breath-holding post . . .


It probably is Berg. I don't have my "The "Holocaust denier" spotting guide for lovers of insane idiots"

Me neither. Ii remembered that you'd posted this:


The credits in the film don't really make sense.
"A film by Eric Hunt" suggests he is the director and scriptwriter. "Produced by Frederick Berg" may mean he funded it or paid for Eric Hunt to direct it. However under any scenario is can not be screened as it contains stolen copyright footage, it hasn't cleared the soundtrack music, and so on.


Statistical Mechanic wrote:This Eric Hunt?

Eric Hunt.jpg
"- a man who an expert said was delusional at the time"
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:24 am

sorry for edit while you replied, cleaned up typo . . . "delusional at the time" could be their motto!
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:30 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:
David wrote:........

Anyway (2) , the video is far more than one testimony and back with some documentation. As I said, it is solid evidence of hundreds of Jewish detainees being transported through Treblinka II.

.........


Please pin point the evidence in the video or summarise it. I cannot find it.

Whoah, hundreds! Hundreds . . . so, out of 700,000+ David wants us to be focused on 100s . . . talk about a tiny tail wagging a Great Dane . . .


The evidence is12 people testifying about having been transported through Treblinka "Death Camp." They testify to having been put on trains with hundreds of other people. For example Vivian Chaikin testifies to being on a train
with 104 women and 3 males doctors.
David Silver testifies to being transported out of Treblinka on a train with 100 males. Moshe Zylberberg testifies to being on a train with 300 young people.
Sam Kulawy testifies to there being "hundreds in each car, Men, women and children."
It starts about 13 minutes in.

I can see that Statistical Mechanic is far happier "focusing" on testimony of
people claim to have seen of vast piles of naked bodies rather than on testimony
of people transported out of Treblinka.

But, whether concerning hundreds of people or thousands,
this newly discovered evidence clearly contradicts Professor Arad's
claim that, "Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction- to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent to other camps."

If you are truly concerned with studying the Holocaust, then this new evidence should be very interesting. For example, it indicates that selection processes were happening
at Treblinka. That is a new fact.
It indicates that some sort of decision making process was going on allocating and
directing that different groups of detainees to different locations.

But, if you are a Believer fanatic, you will try and slither away from the evidence.

Statistical Mechanic, there is a dark little hole over that way for you and Crazy Matty
to slither into.

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:49 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:[The evidence is 12 people testifying about having been transported through Treblinka "Death Camp."
No. You are lying again. Read the transcripts when they are supplied. The slave labour carpenters were simply being transferred to another camp as Treblinka was closing.

The film is propaganda, contains lies and left out all the real evidence. I have asked you directly, do you agree with Berg & Hunt there have been no investigations at Treblinka?


David the lying holocaust denier wrote:For example, it indicates that selection processes were happening at Treblinka. That is a new fact.
You are lying again Let's us read about Treblinka together.....

http://www.jewishgen.org/forgottencamps ... kaeng.html
"Prisoners were then moved through a selection process in which women and children were separated from the men"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_ ... ation_camp
"Only the strongest men were selected from new arrivals daily to obtain the necessary replacements"

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... d=15060841
Victims arriving by train were told that their stay at Treblinka would be temporary, but they had to shower and be deloused in order to prevent disease. Then the selection process began

David? do you know anything about the holocaust at all?

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:53 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:
David wrote:........

Anyway (2) , the video is far more than one testimony and back with some documentation. As I said, it is solid evidence of hundreds of Jewish detainees being transported through Treblinka II.

.........


Please pin point the evidence in the video or summarise it. I cannot find it.

Whoah, hundreds! Hundreds . . . so, out of 700,000+ David wants us to be focused on 100s . . . talk about a tiny tail wagging a Great Dane . . .


The evidence is12 people testifying about having been transported through Treblinka "Death Camp." They testify to having been put on trains with hundreds of other people. For example Vivian Chaikin testifies to being on a train
with 104 women and 3 males doctors.
David Silver testifies to being transported out of Treblinka on a train with 100 males. Moshe Zylberberg testifies to being on a train with 300 young people.
Sam Kulawy testifies to there being "hundreds in each car, Men, women and children."
It starts about 13 minutes in.

Any more details you want to share - such as when these transports were assembled, whether the people interviewed were on many different transports or the same few, where the transports went, what other evidence there is for these transports?

Note that you're still talking about a claim of 100s, not even 1000s. And your gurus have stooped to recycling Zisblatt. And pretending that there's some kind of historical consensus that the gassing engines were diesel.

And, as I've already posted (twice I believe), small transports - I know of 2 that went to Majdanek in early 1943 - from Treblinka are documented and not news at all.

David wrote:I can see that Statistical Mechanic is far happier "focusing" on testimony of
people claim to have seen of vast piles of naked bodies rather than on testimony
of people transported out of Treblinka.

I am not sure what you're referring to. In the first place, I posted a reference to transports from Treblinka to Majdanek - as well as snippets I'd posted elsewhere about such transports and their significance.

Second, I don't recall being happy to focus on people claiming to see vast piles of naked bodies in Treblinka or elsewhere. I've made references to escapees from the camp who reported the murders there. Is that what you mean? If so, I wasn't happy about it.

David wrote:If you are truly concerned with studying the Holocaust, then this new evidence should be very interesting. For example, it indicates that selection processes were happening
at Treblinka. That is a new fact.

Except of course Kranz documented this "new fact" years ago - here http://books.google.com/books/about/Extermination_of_Jews_at_the_Majdanek_Co.html?id=RvwhAQAAIAAJ; I've written about these transports at new RODOH and copied from those posts in SSF. So, no, this discussion is not exactly blowing my mind.

According to the captions in the video, the transports I know about the Majdanek figure prominently in the so-called resettlement. "A place called Majdanek, which was another death camp." A number of those interviewed refer to transport from Treblinka following the uprising in the camp and during its final days.

In the case of the Jews sent to Majdaenk, some were probably sent on to other camps. Those who weren't would most likely have been "resettled" during the murders carried out in Majdanek during Aktion Erntefest. Is that your argument about resettlement?

David wrote:It indicates that some sort of decision making process was going on allocating and
directing that different groups of detainees to different locations.

There was a much more significant selection process at work, as opposed to these small selections like the ones for Majdanek or the one at Sobibor in which Jules Schelvis was taken to a labor squad, in many of the ghettos from which Jews were deported to AR camps. For example, 10s of 1000s of Jews were held back from Treblinka to serve as forced laborers in Warsaw ghetto's workshops.

There was of course another selection process inside Treblinka, in which arriving Jews were sometimes selected for the various work squads in the camp - and assigned to different jobs necessary to running the camp and/or providing services to camp guards. Arad (and many other writers) cover this.

None of this is news, David. Maybe to you, but not to people who are familiar with the evidence and with the works of historians on AR.

David wrote:But, if you are a Believer fanatic, you will try and slither away from the evidence.

Well, the evidence is what i keep telling you and Mary about, so you will have to agree that I am not a "Believer fanatic," whatever that is.

Why, speaking of fanatics, do you ignore what is posted in this forum, pretending that arguments haven't been made against your rubbish and neglecting to answer specific points argued against your claims?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:59 am

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:21 am

Worthless discussion among BRoI and a few Nutzis- but featuring Matthew's posts from this forum and reminding the cretins we'd already been through the Majdanek transports - here at RODOH, kicked off by Fritz "Hold Your Breath" Berg.

Due to the way RODOH is run, I no longer post there - and feel that for anyone to post there is simply encouraging the cretins.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by gaschamberhoax » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:15 am

I have to correct myself, it was 356 not 256 Jews.

Mathew is a liar, look back to his made up 205 figure!

"Thus there is evidence that thousands and thousands left Treblinka"
No. There is evidence presented that 205 people were put back on trains at one of the Treblinkas, the railway station, the labour camp or the extermination camp.


Where the hell does he get the 205 figure. Where's the retraction, liar?

Ever single one of the Shoah videos with the exception of Diskin describes being transited within a period of hours, overnight, or short days. But this is YET another false direct quote.

How can this guy be allowed to continue to write quotes attributed to me inside quotation marks, as if they are direct quotes? He writes something based on what he wants to have heard, puts it inside quotation marks, and then "debunks it" - what a joke. As I wrote, this is libel but par for the course for these liars.

I never said that, what I said is "there are no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews."
No you complete freak. Your stupid propaganda video failed to mention once that empty mass graves were found in 1945 by Lukaszkiewicz's team and again in 2013 and 2014 by Coll's team.

You directly said that "they were cremated" at (3.18) and then argue that the holocaust didn't happen because there were no mass graves, when you knew they were there. You lied.


You have problems actually looking at the entire quote, and want to attribute an easily refutable false quote to me, add some name calling too.

I said there were "no mass graves containing the remains of almost a million Jews."

Apparently you would agree because you're telling me about "empty mass graves" like that somehow proves the exterminationist point!

I didn't say there were no mass graves at all, in fact I'm saying there were / are. How many bodies of non-gassed victims are there? Nowhere near 1 million, or even 100,000 because the gas chamber / pure extermination camp story is a lie.

The remains of 1 million aren't there, even though they are claimed to be.

Ground penetrating radar doesn't prove anything but that the ground was disturbed - as underneath the ground there are not the massive remains 1 million would leave - claimed to have been reburied there after cremation. That's the official story. That the remains were reburied there.

So "empty mass graves" - don't even know what the hell that means - proves the denial pov. The official story is that the remains were reburied. Period. So the remains of 1 million should be there and easy to show.

"The bones were crushed and together with the ashes were re-buried in the mass graves."

The remains are claimed to be buried there. "Empty "mass graves"" proves the denial argument and I have no problem including any technical information Colls wants to publish about "empty mass graves" in version 2.0 of the video.

Other than the Nazis, there were others who disturbed the ground after the Nazis as the Soviet investigations and the "Treblinka Gold Rush" article proves, locals did it themselves, after the war, and in fact there were garbage and refuse pits there too.

I'm not saying everyone took a shower and you can clearly hear from Jews themselves who were taken off of one train, waited around, and were put back on another train after it was cleared and don't mention showers. In fact in the video I wrote that "many" took a shower because some don't mention taking a shower, but simply waiting around to be loaded onto the trains after they are cleaned out (dead bodies taken out and probably put in mass graves, which I acknowledge exist but don't hold anywhere near the remains of 1 million Jews.

Another lie -

The slave labour carpenters were simply being transferred to another camp as Treblinka was closing.


Huh? I guess he wants to call the Jews in the video liars. Just like the others, they were taken off of trains, and put on different trains within hours. They were not at Treblinka for any long period to be transferred to another camp, they were transited within hours. But this has nothing to do with carpenters, because according to this NEW information entire trainloads of completely unskilled men, women, and children were transited through Treblinka to other camps too. They should have been prime candidates to be "selected" to be immediately gassed, according to the Arads and Mathew Ellards of the world - after all, that's exactly what we're told they were sent there for - one way ticket to the gas chambers - but the gas chambers didn't exist and the Germans transited them, fed them and kept them alive.

I have no problem posting the full "testimonies", the editing was necessary for time, and to prove the points I want to make obviously (free of the mostly post-war hearsay about gas chambers / shooting which I also show and debunk) - and I will upload the full testimonies, actually, because liars like you can't make your lies up so easily anymore.

But talk about "emtpy mass graves" aside, there are no remains of 1 million Jews there, because most were transited thorugh, just like the approximately 10,000 in the video proves.

Ellard is a liar, he is denying what these Jews said - that they were transferred within hours or short days with hundreds and even entire trainloads (thousands) of men women, and children. How dare you call those Jews liars!

He is also falsely attributing quotes to these Jews too to suit the old "Holocaust" narrative. But it simply won't work. They are obviously talking about being transited within a period or hours or days or I wouldn't have included them in the project.

Is there no moderator here or does he still want to continue falsely attributing direct quotes to me about "no mass graves."

Ellard clearly can't understand a nuanced stance and has to jump to attribute "absolutes" to me that I never even said or believe.

Until Ellard retracts his "205" completely made up number and posts my full quotes instead of some false quotes he made up, I'm done replying to him.

If there are no moderators here he can continue lying and write whatever fake direct quotes he wants, and then refute the fake quote, and add some name calling.

Forums such as CODOH.com are moderated and don't allow falsely attributing direct quotes, name calling, not sticking to the points made, etc. That's the point of a moderator.

Feel free to join the discussion there, because it is senseless to continue here, as this liar will just make up numbers (205), quotes, etc. at will.

Just watch the video for yourself people of the approximately 10,000 Jewish men, women, and children transited through Treblinka on different trains all throughout the camp's existence direct from the Jew's mouths - and feel free to go to Spielberg's archives yourself until I can post the full "testimonies".

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Nessie » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:51 am

David wrote:......

The evidence is12 people testifying about having been transported through Treblinka "Death Camp." They testify to having been put on trains with hundreds of other people. For example Vivian Chaikin testifies to being on a train with 104 women and 3 males doctors.
David Silver testifies to being transported out of Treblinka on a train with 100 males. Moshe Zylberberg testifies to being on a train with 300 young people.
Sam Kulawy testifies to there being "hundreds in each car, Men, women and children."
It starts about 13 minutes in.

I can see that Statistical Mechanic is far happier "focusing" on testimony of
people claim to have seen of vast piles of naked bodies rather than on testimony
of people transported out of Treblinka.

But, whether concerning hundreds of people or thousands,
this newly discovered evidence clearly contradicts Professor Arad's
claim that, "Jews who arrived by train to Treblinka disembarked, were sent in one direction- to the gas chambers. They never boarded other trains and sent to other camps."

If you are truly concerned with studying the Holocaust, then this new evidence should be very interesting. For example, it indicates that selection processes were happening at Treblinka. That is a new fact.
It indicates that some sort of decision making process was going on allocating and
directing that different groups of detainees to different locations.

But, if you are a Believer fanatic, you will try and slither away from the evidence.

......


Looking at that evidence, there is doubt as to which Treblinka camp is being referred to. I have read revisionist/denier articles which continually refer to Treblinka, but never make it clear which camp they mean. I see you do that above in your post. There is no evidence to say for sure people were transited out of TII.

That there is a selection process is part of the Holocaust narrative and would be expected when there are two camps and people are selected to work or die straight away.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Nessie » Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:54 am

gaschamberhoax wrote:.........

But this has nothing to do with carpenters, because according to this NEW information entire trainloads of completely unskilled men, women, and children were transited through Treblinka to other camps too.

.........

Just watch the video for yourself people of the approximately 10,000 Jewish men, women, and children transited through Treblinka on different trains all throughout the camp's existence direct from the Jew's mouths - and feel free to go to Spielberg's archives yourself until I can post the full "testimonies".



Which Treblinka?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:34 am

gaschamberhoax wrote:I have to correct myself, it was 356 not 256 Jews.

Mathew is a liar, look back to his made up 205 figure! < snip >

Will you be posting a transcript here to facilitate close study of this most important piece of work?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:05 am

gaschamberhoax wrote:. . . t this has nothing to do with carpenters, because according to this NEW information entire trainloads of completely unskilled men, women, and children were transited through Treblinka to other camps too. They should have been prime candidates to be "selected" to be immediately gassed, according to the Arads and Mathew Ellards of the world

Why should we trust anything that gaschamberhoax guy claims when he is busted for posting blatant distortions of his own evidence in this forum? Do we have to parse and check out every word he says or writes to find out the truth?

Why does GCH guy try making it sound improbable, wittering about skills, that the Jews taken to Majdanek, for example, were selected for labor - when "his" interviews - and his "producer," Fritz Berg - make clear that the Jews were taken for labor?

Zelda Gordon - see above - is one of the confused survivors GCH guy features in his video and whom Fritz Berg has advertised at RODOH as the new Irene Zisblatt. Her testimony, like that that of Zisblatt and that of the bewildered man in Hunt's video who thinks he saw frozen bodies stacked when he marched into Treblinka, is very dodgy, to say the least. Still, Zelda Gordon is recorded explaining just what GCH guy now tries making into a mystery. In her Spielberg interview, she claims that she was sent to the camp at Lublin from Majdanek after just a few days at Majdanek (at about 10:25 here): she continues
the work that women did in that camp was to sort out all the things that were taken off from the people in Majdanek, in other words there were a lot of garages and places where they put bundles of the things that people left in Majdanek, and it was packed with clothes and shoes and whatever, and the people of Lublin, the women and - there was also a camp for men - were sorting it out and putting it into bundles of ten or twelve dozens, mostly, of everything, shirts, pants, whatever, underwear, and it was sent, we packaged that, it was sent it to Berlin.

(Or close to this, as I am not a perfect transcriber - I've given the link and timing so you can listen for yourself to the part of Zelda Gordon's testimony that GCH guy suppresses. Note: Frtiz Berg was pre-selling the 20th Century Hoax video a few weeks ago on his website and at RODOH with this post, where he emphasized the point which GCH guy disputes, that
Many people, including Jews, arrived from various places, and after a brief stay . . . departed for other places such as Lublin and Maidanek to the south where they worked like normal people usually do, even during wartime.
boldface added. "Including Jews"? LOL.)

So . . . unskilled Jews were chosen for unskilled labor, is that the problem GCH guy is trying to manufacture?

Why such shenanigans and lack of forthright discussion of what these people say?

Funny business.
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Cerdic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:02 pm

So Berg himself is now present on the forum? Things are heating up. :D
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:55 pm

Cerdic wrote:So Berg himself is now present on the forum? Things are heating up. :D

Or Hunt.

So . . . stepping back – and ignoring the boldface and self-congratulatory hyperbole – what Berg-Hunt are arguing is a new definition for “resettlement.”

Our previous understanding of this concept was that the 100s of 1000s of Jews deported in AR and related Aktionen were supposedly taken to somewhere – as yet undocumented – in the east, perhaps northern Russia, as Joseph Buehler claimed was the Nazi plan at Nuremberg, or to other parts of the Russian interior.

Now we have a new argument: that the Jews deported in AR were taken to other, known, documented camps of the Third Reich’s extant KL system. The proponents haven’t set down a coherent, complete statement of the argument, but we’ve seen that, like Kranz, historian of Majdanek, they specify 100s of Jews sent from Treblinka to Majdanek. They also mention Lublin and a few other camps – and shuffling around within the system with prisoners ending up in places like Bergen-Belsen. Unlike Kranz, however, Berg-Hunt extrapolate from recent testimonies in the Spielberg collection about 100s of transferred Jews that 1000s upon 1000s were thus transited and that these transfers explain the “missing” Jews of AR.

The camps in the Third Reich’s KL system, to which the new revisionist thesis has AR Jews going, were not, according to known research about the system, specifically places to hold Jews; the KLs interned many different kinds of prisoners – Poles, POWs, Roma, political prisoners such as people taken in Nacht und Nebel roundups, Jehovah’s witnesses, Catholics, ordinary criminals, homosexual men, asocials, Jews, and others made up the KL population.

By January 1945, there were over 700,000 inmates in the Germans’ KL system to which the new resettlement theory suggests AR deportees were sent. A total of about 1.6 million people passed through the KLs during their entire life span (1933-1945) – and about 1.1 million died in these camps. (data from Blatman, The Death Marches: The Final Phase of Nazi Genocide).

As we know, nearly 800,000 Jews were deported to just Treblinka. Another 175,000 were sent to Sobibor and 435,000 to Belzec. This means that about 1.4 million Jews were deported to the AR camps.

According to the new revisionist argument, then, extrapolating from the Spielberg interviewees used by Berg-Hunt, something on the order of 1 million plus AR Jews wound up in the KL system. That is, almost every KL prisoner during the war years was a Jew transited through an AR camp.

Thus, according to this argument, the records for the KL system should show, in contrast to what historians studying the KL system have shown, that in 1942-1943 the KL system was overwhelmed with AR transportees, that the KL inmate population was not diverse, and that KL prisoners were not drawn from the Reich and around Europe but almost homogeneously made up of Polish and other Jews seized in AR.

What Berg-Hunt will be doing next, then, one assumes, is showing us, using KL documents, that the KL system was practically filled with AR transportees, not with Poles, POWs, Roma, political prisoners such as people taken in Nacht und Nebel roundups, Jehovah’s witnesses, Catholics, ordinary criminals, homosexual men, asocials, Jews, and others. One wonders, in fact, why Berg-Hunt hesitated to present this new history of the KLs and its documentation as part of their video expose, its necessity as proof for their argument being so obvious.

The alternative understanding of these “new” findings is that the findings are not new at all but simply a hyperbolic re-statement of what we have known for a long time. Poliakov and Reitlinger were already discussing the spring 1943 transfers via Treblinka to Majdanek in 1951 and 1953 respectively. The new revisionist argument, therefore, runs behind the existing record/literature a cool 61 to 63 years. As already discussed here, Kranz and Schelvis have also documented that a very small number of those deported in AR, in comparison to the total number deported, were selected at the AR camps for labor assignments and, according to Kranz (along with Poliakov and Reitlinger) were sent into the KL system or, as with Schelvis and Sobibor, taken off to other work sites for such assignments.

What's the big deal here?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by deathonacracker » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:43 pm

Cerdic wrote:So Berg himself is now present on the forum? Things are heating up. :D


Well, I posted the link here on Rodoh in front of Mr. Berg's face. :D

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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by Cerdic » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Cerdic wrote:So Berg himself is now present on the forum? Things are heating up. :D

Or Hunt.

Looking at the way he writes, I think it's Berg. :?
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Re: Transfers OUT of Treblinka II and Arad's Goof

Post by David » Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:03 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Or Hunt.

So . . . stepping back – and ignoring the boldface and self-congratulatory hyperbole – what Berg-Hunt are arguing is a new definition for “resettlement.”


What a bunch of lying Believer idiots you three are.
There is some very interesting evidence presented in the video.
We have Crazy Matty whose first reaction is to lie about the number of
people who left Treblinka II quickly followed by a exhaustive smear rant and
a lengthy off topic tapdance

The only Believer here who asks reasonable questions about the evidence is Nessie.
Why do we think that these people were sent to and out of Treblinka II Camp and not
Treblinka I?

They arrived and left in trains- I don't think that trains ran all the way to the Treblinka
labor camp.