Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Discussions
Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:33 pm

In which country's archives can I find the wartime documents that give us the identity of individual Jews who were sent to Treblinka? The Reichbahn kept pretty good records. A list of passengers on a specific train sent to Treblinka on a specific date should be available somewhere. I'm not talking about things like the ARC Treblinka Roll of Remembrance or the Yad Vashem Victims of the Shoah database but actual wartime documents. Where are those? Please don't tell me the Commies found them!

The reason I ask is that according to the HoloPoes, the way to disprove the Holocaust Theory of European Jewish Population Decline post-1945 is to find specific Jews who were sent to Treblinka and lived to tell about it. Lists of specific Jews who were sent to Treblinka and never seen again must exist because without that, you cannot know their fate.

For example, observing cattle cars full of Jews coming into Treblinka and from that information estimating that 2,000 Jews were killed isn't evidence that supports the Holocaust Theory. Saying there were 70,000 Jews in some Polish shtetl that aren't there anymore isn't evidence that 70,000 Jews were murdered. A telegram that says 700,000ish Jews were sent to Treblinka isn't evidence they were murdered. I think everybody will agree that at least 700,000 Jews did survive the Holocaust. Those 700,000 Jews sent to Treblinka could have been among the Jews who survived as easily as they were among those that were murdered.

So where are those? The lists of specific Jews who were put on a train with the final destination being Treblinka who were never seen again?
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:42 pm

Which Treblinka? There were two camps.

What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:51 pm

Nessie wrote:What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
Nothing, Mary is getting desperate. Unable to answer Cerdic's simple question, she's spinning and stalling and faffing about.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:46 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:The Reichbahn kept pretty good records. A list of passengers on a specific train sent to Treblinka on a specific date should be available somewhere.
Deutsche Reichsbahn didn't list Jewish "passengers" , from ghettos, by name on tickets, but by headcount, so as to receive payment. The Reichsbahn was paid the equivalent of a third class railway ticket for every prisoner transported to their destination. Thus, we know 713,555 had arrived and been executed at Treblinka before 30DEC42. As the Jews were executed upon arrival at Treblinka, they weren't individually registered there either.

Richard L. Rubenstein, John K. Roth (2003). Approaches to Auschwitz (Google Books search inside). Westminster John Knox Press.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:A telegram that says 700,000ish Jews were sent to Treblinka isn't evidence they were murdered.
Yes it is Mary. The 713,555 people never left Treblinka. Have you identified the trains that took them out of Treblinka using Zabecki's train movement records for Treblinka, kept in Siedlce? No? So how did they leave Treblinka? Helicopter? Spaceship? Husky sledge?

SS Hauptsturmführer, Stangl / Commanding Officer Treblinka
"I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager [extermination area] in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of black-blue corpses....."

"I sometimes stood on the wall and saw them in the "tube" — they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips"

User avatar
Monster
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5585
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Tarrytown, NY, USA

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Monster » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:50 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka
More fun?????? How is this fun?
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

User avatar
Kaepora Gaebora
Regular Poster
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Kaepora Gaebora » Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:16 pm

Monster wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka
More fun?????? How is this fun?
It's time out because her and her denier friends need more time and can't answer a simple question: if the Jews weren't all sent to their death, where did they go?

Marty Wintonbury
Poster
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Marty Wintonbury » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:23 pm

This is Mary's "gotchya" thread in which all the believers are huffing and puffing but unable to blow even the "straw house" of their own making down.

Do you sheeple mean to say that the German's took the trouble to cut everyone's hair before gassing, but didn't bother to jot down their names on a piece of paper? Where I come from, it takes more time at the hair stylist salon then it does with the census taker. These are the orderly and organized Germans, too. If no one knew the names of the "victims" how would we even know if they were Jews or Polynesians.

So we have no bodies and no names but 850,000 "victims" :lol:

User avatar
Cerdic
Poster
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Cerdic » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:33 pm

These are the transport records for Treblinka: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... today.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But still, my question stands. See the other thread.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:54 pm

Marty Wintonbury wrote:This is Mary's "gotchya" thread in which all the believers are huffing and puffing but unable to blow even the "straw house" of their own making down.

Do you sheeple mean to say that the German's took the trouble to cut everyone's hair before gassing, but didn't bother to jot down their names on a piece of paper? Where I come from, it takes more time at the hair stylist salon then it does with the census taker. These are the orderly and organized Germans, too. If no one knew the names of the "victims" how would we even know if they were Jews or Polynesians.

So we have no bodies and no names but 850,000 "victims" :lol:
I see thinking isn't your strength.

They already were identified as such, they were not being "styled" but shorn if they lost their hair, and why take the time to record the names of those that are destined to die anyway?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
iwh
Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by iwh » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Since when was the naming of individuals seen as definitive proof in relation to mass murder or death?

Are there lists of names of all those (700,000- 2 million) that were murdered by Mao's PRC in the 1950s?

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_t ... utionaries
For a debunking of new boy on the block John Wear see:

https://wearswarts.wordpress.com

Marty Wintonbury
Poster
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Marty Wintonbury » Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:33 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Marty Wintonbury wrote:This is Mary's "gotchya" thread in which all the believers are huffing and puffing but unable to blow even the "straw house" of their own making down.

Do you sheeple mean to say that the German's took the trouble to cut everyone's hair before gassing, but didn't bother to jot down their names on a piece of paper? Where I come from, it takes more time at the hair stylist salon then it does with the census taker. These are the orderly and organized Germans, too. If no one knew the names of the "victims" how would we even know if they were Jews or Polynesians.

So we have no bodies and no names but 850,000 "victims" :lol:
I see thinking isn't your strength.

They already were identified as such, they were not being "styled" but shorn if they lost their hair, and why take the time to record the names of those that are destined to die anyway?
This is a strawman and an extreme miscomprehension. Even a bad haircut takes time and why wouldn't the Germans keep records? If one kills anonymously one is no better than a crazy school shooter or a mall whacko gunning down strangers for kicks. The joy of bureaucratic desk killing is in order and record keeping.

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:52 pm

Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.
When people say "Treblinka" they mean the one that was established for the sole purpose of extermination.
Nessie wrote:What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
A count of a number of Jews that were deported tells us nothing about the fate of the individual Jews. Millions of Jews were deported and millions of Jews survived the war to tell the world about their experience. Even the most fanatical Holohugger acknowledges that many Jewish survivors report the experience of being deported. So among any aggregate count of Jews being deported from a specific place there will be a certain number of individual Jews that survived. If you have a source that lists a number of Jews deported from a certain place, I can tell you that all those Jews are among those who survived the war. And I doubt you have anything except your own personal incredulity to prove me wrong.
Last edited by Mary Q Contrary on Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:49 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.

What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
All those unnamed Jews survived the war. Prove otherwise.
What-ifs and could-be's do not substitute for history. Rather, they expose your paltry historical knowledge, cowardice and dodging, and your mendacity.

Some considerations regarding just the deportations from Warsaw:

- The team that would carry out the deportation of Jews from Warsaw ghetto arrived in Warsaw in mid-July 1942; the commander was SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Hermann Hofle.

- At the beginning of the action, the Germans took "prominent" Jews from the ghetto as hostages to ensure that the ghetto's inmates complied with orders.

- On the first day of the deportation (22 July 1942), Hofle's SS squad went to the Judenrat offices and gave instructions to Czerniakow and others; Czerniakow would commit suicide the night of 23 July on receipt of additional orders; Lejkin was formally appointed chief of the Jewish Order Service.

- When the Germans announced the removal of Jews from Warsaw ghetto, they exempted some categories of the population - Judenrat members and their families, Order Service members and their families, gravediggers, certain transport workers, certain workers in designated workshops owned by Germans. During the course of the German action, the line between those subject to deportation and those exempt would not be a firm one, and the categories under threat of deportation would expand.

- The collection point for deportees was the Umschlagplatz, a loading square bounded by Stawki and Dzika streets at the northern end of the ghetto and adjoining rail yards; in addition there was a collection point for young men (11,000+) to be sent from the ghetto to other work sites - this was the Durchgangslager (Dulag) located in Leszno Street.

- During the great action, the Umschlagplatz was a disorderly, chaotic place - guarded by Germans with submachine guns - where Jews waited for deportation trains; Jewish policemen, wearing armbands, helped process Jews at the Umschlagplatz and try to keep order - victims were able in some cases to bribe these helpers and escape deportation. "Conditions at the Umschlagplatz. People are dying where they are being held." (Lewin, page 138) "Sometimes there are several thousand people waiting a day or two to be transported because of a shortage of railroad cars." (Kaplan, page 384) Up to 200 Jewish policemen formed cordons through which victims passed to the trains: according to an eyewitness, "The cattle cars had no steps. Pairs of policemen detailed by Lejkin were ordered to count the people, a hundred to a car." (Engelking & Leociak, page 702)

- Notices to inform the ghetto's inmates of their deportation were pasted up around the ghetto; deportees were permitted 15kg of luggage. Yet, order breaking down, one witness wrote that by late July "About 95 percent of the people are sent away without any kind of packing, of linen or clothes." (Lewin, page 142)

- To effect the deportation, the Germans established blockades and cordoned off sections of the ghetto, working with the Order Service to remove Jews from these sections, section by section. At the outset, a Jew showing a work card (Ausweis) was generally not rounded up, whilst those without such cards were forced to the Umschlagplatz, often conveyed in carts. The first deportees were those taken from Gesia Street prison, the hospital on Leszno Street, and street beggars. Soon, groups of residents in the apartment blocks were being taken. "The ghetto has turned into an inferno. . . . people are being hunted down in the streets like animals in the forest. . . . Sometimes a blockade is made of a particular house, sometimes of a whole block of houses. In every building earmarked for destruction they begin to make the rounds of the apartments and to demand documents. Whoever has neither documents that entitle him to remain in the ghetto nor money for bribes is told to make a bundle weighing 15 kilos - and on the the transport which stands near the gate." (Kaplan, page 386) Another eyewitness described the process: the authorities "went for roundups, forming in the streets double rows or extended lines and drawing all passersby into their net and taking them to the Umschlagplatz." (Engelking & Leociak, page 710) According to another, "Old men and women, boys and girls are being dragged away. . . . Five killed in Dzielna Street in the night. Terrible scenes in the streets." (Lewin, page 137) And: "There are many murders. They kill the sick who don't go down to the courtyards." (Lewin, page 147)

- To encourage volunteers, the Germans spread the rumor that those being taken from the ghetto were headed to the East for work (the Polish underground was already reporting that the "destination of the deportees is not known, but rumors suggest the region of Malkinia and Brzesc on the Bug," Engelking & Leociak, page 713) and, on 29 July, offered (according to posters) volunteers 3kg of bread and 1kg of marmalade - to be given out at the corner of Dzika and Stawki streets. According to one witness, "Many give themselves up voluntarily. It is supposed that hunger forces them into it." (Lewin, page 138)

- On 31 July those rounding up the Jews "stopped taking any notice of labor certificates" (according to eyewitness Szpilman, in Engelking & Leociak, page 713). German and Czech Jews who'd been sent to Warsaw were described as self-organized for orderly deportation, having labeled their belongings with their names and where they came from. By the next day, an eyewitness reported that in the roundups "The German presence is more and more pronounced. All pedestrians and residents caught in the blockade - several thousand people - are chased into a street and lined up in ranks of four or six. The selection is done right there. One rank after another advances toward the SS-man: a quick glance at the papers, the face, and a flick of the crop sends each person either to the left and freedom or the right and Umschlagplatz." (Engelking & Leociak, page 715) The process on this day was described as calm even as families were split up and people taken off without any belongings.

- When in early August Janusz Korczak's orphanage was closed and its residents deported, Korczak himself walked at the head of the column guided by the police. "When the Germans saw Korczak, they asked: Who is that man?" (Engwlking & Leociak, page 717) Shortly after this, even Jews in the workshops were being pulled from places of work and deported, and a large number of Judenrat staff were fired and then deported.

- Along with calm roundups, there were wild, violent actions: "Two or three SS-men show up where the SP is conducting the roundup and terrorize the population with their yelling, their whips, and their shooting. People are killed. It all takes place at a dizzying tempo" without time even to look back at vacated apartments, etc. (Engelking & Leociak, page 720)

- On 5 September, the Germans formed the notorious Cauldron - first requiring shop workers, upon pain of being shot, to appear in the Cauldron for re-registration; those selected in this process for the workshops received cards or tin number plates ("numbers to live") allowing them to remain in the ghetto; 32,000 Jews were so selected. The remaining Jews were deprived of work-cards and were deported, unless they managed to go underground. Yes, it was those Jews remaining in the ghetto who needed identity cards and whose identities were thenceforth checked; those being deported were simply collected, herded by cart or on foot to the Umschlagplatz, and held there under armed guard until they could be shoved into rail cars. During the Cauldron action alone, over 2,500 Jews were shot and nearly 55,000 were deported. This action concluded the Great Deportation in Warsaw.

We saw above that Jewish Order Service members who were involved in loading trains counted victims. The Germans also made a count, in their case with chalk marks on the train car doors (Gutman, page 212). The two counts differ, with the German count being 253,741 taken to Treblinka and 11,580 separated out for transport to work sites by way of the Dulag.

Optimistic speculation that the Germans kept names, addresses, and personal data of those tracked down like animals, people shot in the apartment blocks, streets and courtyards, Jews of all ages carted to the Umschlagplatz and held there unceremoniously, and/or the ghetto's residents shoved into trains for deportation is just that: optimistic - unrealistic and unfounded - speculation.

So, no, you show us your sources for Germans having noted down personal information of deportees and preserved records of the deported individuals.

You ludicrous turnip-brain.

Sources:
Chaim Kaplan, Scroll of Agony: The Warsaw Diary of Chaim A. Kaplan
Abraham Lewin, A Cup of Tears: A Diary of the Warsaw Ghetto
Barbara Engelking & Jacek Leociak, The Warsaw Ghetto: A Guide to the Perished City
Yisrael Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw: 1939-1943, Ghetto, Underground, Revolt
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:19 pm

Kaepora Gaebora wrote:
Monster wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka
More fun?????? How is this fun?
It's time out because her and her denier friends need more time and can't answer a simple question: if the Jews weren't all sent to their death, where did they go?
Where did the ones who weren't sent to their death go?
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.

What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
All those unnamed Jews survived the war. Prove otherwise.
What-ifs and could-be's do not substitute for history. Rather, they expose your paltry historical knowledge, cowardice and dodging, and your mendacity.

Some considerations regarding just the deportations from Warsaw:

- The team that would carry out the deportation of Jews from Warsaw ghetto arrived in Warsaw in mid-July 1942; the commander was SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Hermann Hofle.

- At the beginning of the action, the Germans took "prominent" Jews from the ghetto as hostages to ensure that the ghetto's inmates complied with orders.

- On the first day of the deportation (22 July 1942), Hofle's SS squad went to the Judenrat offices and gave instructions to Czerniakow and others; Czerniakow would commit suicide the night of 23 July on receipt of additional orders; Lejkin was formally appointed chief of the Jewish Order Service.

- When the Germans announced the removal of Jews from Warsaw ghetto, they exempted some categories of the population - Judenrat members and their families, Order Service members and their families, gravediggers, certain transport workers, certain workers in designated workshops owned by Germans. During the course of the German action, the line between those subject to deportation and those exempt would not be a firm one, and the categories under threat of deportation would expand.

- The collection point for deportees was the Umschlagplatz, a loading square bounded by Stawki and Dzika streets at the northern end of the ghetto and adjoining rail yards; in addition there was a collection point for young men (11,000+) to be sent from the ghetto to other work sites - this was the Durchgangslager (Dulag) located in Leszno Street.

- During the great action, the Umschlagplatz was a disorderly, chaotic place - guarded by Germans with submachine guns - where Jews waited for deportation trains; Jewish policemen, wearing armbands, helped process Jews at the Umschlagplatz and try to keep order - victims were able in some cases to bribe these helpers and escape deportation. "Conditions at the Umschlagplatz. People are dying where they are being held." (Lewin, page 138) "Sometimes there are several thousand people waiting a day or two to be transported because of a shortage of railroad cars." (Kaplan, page 384) Up to 200 Jewish policemen formed cordons through which victims passed to the trains: according to an eyewitness, "The cattle cars had no steps. Pairs of policemen detailed by Lejkin were ordered to count the people, a hundred to a car." (Engelking & Leociak, page 702)

- Notices to inform the ghetto's inmates of their deportation were pasted up around the ghetto; deportees were permitted 15kg of luggage. Yet, order breaking down, one witness wrote that by late July "About 95 percent of the people are sent away without any kind of packing, of linen or clothes." (Lewin, page 142)

- To effect the deportation, the Germans established blockades and cordoned off sections of the ghetto, working with the Order Service to remove Jews from these sections, section by section. At the outset, a Jew showing a work card (Ausweis) was generally not rounded up, whilst those without such cards were forced to the Umschlagplatz, often conveyed in carts. The first deportees were those taken from Gesia Street prison, the hospital on Leszno Street, and street beggars. Soon, groups of residents in the apartment blocks were being taken. "The ghetto has turned into an inferno. . . . people are being hunted down in the streets like animals in the forest. . . . Sometimes a blockade is made of a particular house, sometimes of a whole block of houses. In every building earmarked for destruction they begin to make the rounds of the apartments and to demand documents. Whoever has neither documents that entitle him to remain in the ghetto nor money for bribes is told to make a bundle weighing 15 kilos - and on the the transport which stands near the gate." (Kaplan, page 386) Another eyewitness described the process: the authorities "went for roundups, forming in the streets double rows or extended lines and drawing all passersby into their net and taking them to the Umschlagplatz." (Engelking & Leociak, page 710) According to another, "Old men and women, boys and girls are being dragged away. . . . Five killed in Dzielna Street in the night. Terrible scenes in the streets." (Lewin, page 137) And: "There are many murders. They kill the sick who don't go down to the courtyards." (Lewin, page 147)

- To encourage volunteers, the Germans spread the rumor that those being taken from the ghetto were headed to the East for work (the Polish underground was already reporting that the "destination of the deportees is not known, but rumors suggest the region of Malkinia and Brzesc on the Bug," Engelking & Leociak, page 713) and, on 29 July, offered (according to posters) volunteers 3kg of bread and 1kg of marmalade - to be given out at the corner of Dzika and Stawki streets. According to one witness, "Many give themselves up voluntarily. It is supposed that hunger forces them into it." (Lewin, page 138)

- On 31 July those rounding up the Jews "stopped taking any notice of labor certificates" (according to eyewitness Szpilman, in Engelking & Leociak, page 713). German and Czech Jews who'd been sent to Warsaw were described as self-organized for orderly deportation, having labeled their belongings with their names and where they came from. By the next day, an eyewitness reported that in the roundups "The German presence is more and more pronounced. All pedestrians and residents caught in the blockade - several thousand people - are chased into a street and lined up in ranks of four or six. The selection is done right there. One rank after another advances toward the SS-man: a quick glance at the papers, the face, and a flick of the crop sends each person either to the left and freedom or the right and Umschlagplatz." (Engelking & Leociak, page 715) The process on this day was described as calm even as families were split up and people taken off without any belongings.

- When in early August Janusz Korczak's orphanage was closed and its residents deported, Korczak himself walked at the head of the column guided by the police. "When the Germans saw Korczak, they asked: Who is that man?" (Engwlking & Leociak, page 717) Shortly after this, even Jews in the workshops were being pulled from places of work and deported, and a large number of Judenrat staff were fired and then deported.

- Along with calm roundups, there were wild, violent actions: "Two or three SS-men show up where the SP is conducting the roundup and terrorize the population with their yelling, their whips, and their shooting. People are killed. It all takes place at a dizzying tempo" without time even to look back at vacated apartments, etc. (Engelking & Leociak, page 720)

- On 5 September, the Germans formed the notorious Cauldron - first requiring shop workers, upon pain of being shot, to appear in the Cauldron for re-registration; those selected in this process for the workshops received cards or tin number plates ("numbers to live") allowing them to remain in the ghetto; 32,000 Jews were so selected. The remaining Jews were deprived of work-cards and were deported, unless they managed to go underground. Yes, it was those Jews remaining in the ghetto who needed identity cards and whose identities were thenceforth checked; those being deported were simply collected, herded by cart or on foot to the Umschlagplatz, and held there under armed guard until they could be shoved into rail cars. During the Cauldron action alone, over 2,500 Jews were shot and nearly 55,000 were deported. This action concluded the Great Deportation in Warsaw.

We saw above that Jewish Order Service members who were involved in loading trains counted victims. The Germans also made a count, in their case with chalk marks on the train car doors (Gutman, page 212). The two counts differ, with the German count being 253,741 taken to Treblinka and 11,580 separated out for transport to work sites by way of the Dulag.

Optimistic speculation that the Germans kept names, addresses, and personal data of those tracked down like animals, people shot in the apartment blocks, streets and courtyards, Jews of all ages carted to the Umschlagplatz and held there unceremoniously, and/or the ghetto's residents shoved into trains for deportation is just that: optimistic - unrealistic and unfounded - speculation.

So, no, you show us your sources for Germans having noted down personal information of deportees and preserved records of the deported individuals.

You ludicrous turnip-brain.

Sources:
Chaim Kaplan, Scroll of Agony: The Warsaw Diary of Chaim A. Kaplan
Abraham Lewin, A Cup of Tears: A Diary of the Warsaw Ghetto
Barbara Engelking & Jacek Leociak, The Warsaw Ghetto: A Guide to the Perished City
Yisrael Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw: 1939-1943, Ghetto, Underground, Revolt
Nice attempt at derail with copious incidental factoids. Since you know so much, maybe you can tell me: where did the Jews who survived the Holocaust go?
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:25 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:Nice attempt at derail with copious incidental factoids. Since you know so much, maybe you can tell me: where did the Jews who survived the Holocaust go?
I see. Mary is stumped. We all see that Mary's stumped. But she should go ahead, if she wants details on individuals: she should tell us about the deportation records kept by the German authorities, which she thinks exist, the records listing names and dates of those deported, I'd guess, and where the individuals were taken. Also she can let us know where she found these records. You know, those meticulous Germans . . .

Ok?

While she struggles with that, she's free to use this to match up names of those in the ghetto before and after the 1942 deportations. I think it will be hard work and will take Mary a long time - and result in many, many gaps. There aren't that many names here. But by doing this exercise, she'll be able to tell us about some of those taken off - 250,000 to 300,000 of them - and who were some remaining in the shrunken ghetto.

Note 1: To these muppets, not speculating is derailing! LOL. To do history - in this case, describing what happened and how it went down - is called derailing, and describing the process at work is called presenting individual factoids. Oh my: here's one clown called Mary who credits her unrealistic hopes over evidence and sources.

Note 2: Mary grunted but didn't raise a single objection to the account I gave, which makes the likelihood of immaculate record-keeping of deported Jews and their names equivalent to zero. No wonder she huffed and puffed instead of thinking about the actual process and how it was conducted.

Note 3: Mary edited her reply to Nessie above after I made my reply to that post - we can see the difference by comparing what I quoted and Mary's edited post. We can also compare time stamps. How come Mary did that and didn't tell us?
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:16 am

So, Warsaw ghetto's population was reduced by more than 250,000 people between late July and mid-September 1942, by the process summarized above. If we can all agree on that, the next step is pretty obvious . . .
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:50 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:.Since you know so much, maybe you can tell me: where did the Jews who survived the Holocaust go?
Mary Q Contrary wrote:If you want me to be more specific, you need to be more specific. Now it is your turn.
I am going to start with the concentration camp victim LEO ROSNER who resettled in Australia.

What is the name of your first Jewish victim who was resettled in Russia after being sent to Treblinka? What? Neither you nor anyone at CODOH, can name one person to match the cult's silly claim? I have 17,000 names on my holocaust immigration list to Australia and you can't find one?


RESETTLEMENT OF HOLOCAUST REFUGEES/SURVIVORS BY COUNTRY

Australia (1933 - 1939)7,000, (1940)1,500, (1945-54) 17,000, (1954-61) 10,000

Israel (1945-48) 250,000, (1948+) 150,000

USA (1945-52) 80,000

Canada (1945-48) 8,000 (1948-55) 40,000

UK (1945-55) 2,000

South Africa (1945-55) 1,500

New Zealand (1933-45) 1,000, (1945+) <300

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:52 am

This attempt having resulted in a spectacular revisionist own-goal
Mary Q Contrary wrote:So where are those? The lists of specific Jews who were put on a train with the final destination being Treblinka who were never seen again?
Mary now switches things up and tries this
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Since you know so much, maybe you can tell me: where did the Jews who survived the Holocaust go?
After altering her own posts to make replies to them appear to be non sequiturs. Such clumsiness.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Cerdic
Poster
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Cerdic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:36 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:[. Even the most fanatical Holohugger acknowledges that many Jewish survivors report the experience of being deported.
But with exceptions that can literally be counted on two hands for each camp, none report the experience of being deported to the AR camps, and none report being transited through to the east.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

User avatar
Cerdic
Poster
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Cerdic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:22 am

Try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:T ... mp_victims" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:15 pm

Cerdic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:[. Even the most fanatical Holohugger acknowledges that many Jewish survivors report the experience of being deported.
But with exceptions that can literally be counted on two hands for each camp, none report the experience of being deported to the AR camps, and none report being transited through to the east.
And of course as everyone knows some of these people (not many, as Cerdic says) testified not only to the deportations but as to what happened in the camps, like Treblinka, to which people were deported. At Treblinka, as Mary knows, these witnesses reported that nearly all the Jews deported there were murdered and nearly all of those murdered by gas. Those who escaped during the revolt testified to the same thing. So is that what Mary is trying to tell us?
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:29 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.
When people say "Treblinka" they mean the one that was established for the sole purpose of extermination.
Nessie wrote:What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
A count of a number of Jews that were deported tells us nothing about the fate of the individual Jews. Millions of Jews were deported and millions of Jews survived the war to tell the world about their experience. Even the most fanatical Holohugger acknowledges that many Jewish survivors report the experience of being deported. So among any aggregate count of Jews being deported from a specific place there will be a certain number of individual Jews that survived. If you have a source that lists a number of Jews deported from a certain place, I can tell you that all those Jews are among those who survived the war. And I doubt you have anything except your own personal incredulity to prove me wrong.
OK, so Treblinka II. I just wanted to check as many articles fudge the two camps as if they are one and then go on about people who were transited through T I as if T II was the place.

"Millions of Jews were deported"...where? Please provide a list of all places Jews were deported to by the Nazis during WWII.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:33 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Kaepora Gaebora wrote:
Monster wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka
More fun?????? How is this fun?
It's time out because her and her denier friends need more time and can't answer a simple question: if the Jews weren't all sent to their death, where did they go?
Where did the ones who weren't sent to their death go?
Other camps and ghettos.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunda ... d=all&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945."
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:01 am

There are lots of unanswered questions in this, the thread on where were the Jews re-settled and prove Treblinka II was a transit camp thread. The present deniers are doing as badly as the past deniers who were on the forum.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:19 pm

Nessie wrote:There are lots of unanswered questions in this, the thread on where were the Jews re-settled and prove Treblinka II was a transit camp thread. The present deniers are doing as badly as the past deniers who were on the forum.
And as badly as the deniers at RODOH did with the same topic, where they rely on Mattogno, Kues, and Graf but fail to check the deceptive revisionist material out for themselves!
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
deathonacracker
Poster
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:40 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by deathonacracker » Mon Mar 03, 2014 7:41 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Nessie wrote:There are lots of unanswered questions in this, the thread on where were the Jews re-settled and prove Treblinka II was a transit camp thread. The present deniers are doing as badly as the past deniers who were on the forum.
And as badly as the deniers at RODOH did with the same topic, where they rely on Mattogno, Kues, and Graf but fail to check the deceptive revisionist material out for themselves!

Yes. Where's the challenge when one needs one. :D

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:22 am

Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.

What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
German deportation train records had not only the name
of the individuals deported but other information about them.
An example can be seen at
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... y-1.451887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And , Nessie, you forget your own Holocaust Beliefs. You are claiming
that the people on the train were sentenced to Death (by Diesel exhaust, no less.)
What happened when a train showed up missing 3 or 4 people?
Would the Germans wanted to know who had escaped them?
Of course.

And you also forget your own comment that there were two Treblinka camps!
One a penal labor camp. So a "list" that just says, "Treblinka Camp"
makes no sense and conflicts with known German practices.




User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:32 am

David wrote: German deportation train records had not only the name
of the individuals deported but other information about them.
An example can be seen at
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... y-1.451887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Your article shows artifacts from deportations of Jews from France. The process and paperwork for deportations of Jews from the Reich will also differ to what happened in Poland.

I am insulted that you take us to be so stupid as to confuse the west and the east - and to confuse how the Germans handled matters in the different parts of Europe. That said, your trick doesn't work with us.

David wrote:And , Nessie, you forget your own Holocaust Beliefs. You are claiming
that the people on the train were sentenced to Death (by Diesel exhaust, no less.)
What happened when a train showed up missing 3 or 4 people?
Would the Germans wanted to know who had escaped them?
Of course.
Your point is what? Are you going to explain how deportations from Warsaw, for example, took place?

You do agree, right, with this?
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So, Warsaw ghetto's population was reduced by more than 250,000 people between late July and mid-September 1942, by the process summarized above. If we can all agree on that, the next step is pretty obvious . . .
If so, we can move to the next step. If not, please explain why.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:33 am

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:Which Treblinka? There were two camps.
When people say "Treblinka" they mean the one that was established for the sole purpose of extermination.
Nessie wrote:What is wrong with sources which show the number of Jews being deported from Polish towns and cities and going to Treblinka but do not name them?
A count of a number of Jews that were deported tells us nothing about the fate of the individual Jews. Millions of Jews were deported and millions of Jews survived the war to tell the world about their experience. Even the most fanatical Holohugger acknowledges that many Jewish survivors report the experience of being deported. So among any aggregate count of Jews being deported from a specific place there will be a certain number of individual Jews that survived. If you have a source that lists a number of Jews deported from a certain place, I can tell you that all those Jews are among those who survived the war. And I doubt you have anything except your own personal incredulity to prove me wrong.
OK, so Treblinka II. I just wanted to check as many articles fudge the two camps as if they are one and then go on about people who were transited through T I as if T II was the place.

"Millions of Jews were deported"...where? Please provide a list of all places Jews were deported to by the Nazis during WWII.
Are you really asking me to provide proof that Jews were deported during the war? If you don't have evidence that Jews were deported to places like Treblinka or Auschwitz, how can you say that they were sent to these places and never heard from again?
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:37 am

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Kaepora Gaebora wrote:
Monster wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka
More fun?????? How is this fun?
It's time out because her and her denier friends need more time and can't answer a simple question: if the Jews weren't all sent to their death, where did they go?
Where did the ones who weren't sent to their death go?
Other camps and ghettos.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunda ... d=all&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945."
Other camps and ghettos? What about after the war? Where did they go after the war?
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:44 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Other camps and ghettos? What about after the war? Where did they go after the war?
I have given you the information now four times. Why are you such a coward?

RESETTLEMENT OF HOLOCAUST REFUGEES/SURVIVORS BY COUNTRY
Australia (1933 - 1939)7,000, (1940)1,500, (1945-54) 17,000, (1954-61) 10,000
Israel (1945-48) 250,000, (1948+) 150,000
USA (1945-52) 80,000
Canada (1945-48) 8,000 (1948-55) 40,000
UK (1945-55) 2,000
South Africa (1945-55) 1,500
New Zealand (1933-45) 1,000, (1945+) <300

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:09 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:What about after the war? Where did they go after the war?
We are talking about during the war, and that's why you and your colleagues ignore the questions I asked about 10 cities and 1,000,000 plus Jews in 1941-1942 - what does the evidence indicate happened to the Jews living in those places during the war?

It is clear why you keep shifting the question - to Jews who survived, to postwar migration: because the evidence of what became of large numbers of Jews in Poland and throughout the East is, to put it mildly, bad for denial. So deniers don't discuss that evidence: they switch topics. The way you're doing. Transparently.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Cerdic
Poster
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Cerdic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:53 pm

by Diesel exhaust, no less.
Revisionists are still pushing the "Diesel Engine" claim? :roll:
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

User avatar
deathonacracker
Poster
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:40 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by deathonacracker » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:58 pm

Cerdic wrote:
by Diesel exhaust, no less.
Revisionists are still pushing the "Diesel Engine" claim? :roll:
In what context? That's the important thing. SM might know what exactly was used at Treblinka, but I recall vaguely something about submarine engines. Probably were not diesal. I'm sorry I don't recall. I ought to look it up, but there afre any deniers of value here. :D

User avatar
Cerdic
Poster
Posts: 366
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:55 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Cerdic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:22 pm

Most reliable testimonies indicate gasoline. And that is what would make more sense.
„(...) Wenn wir irgendetwas beim Nationalsozialismus anerkennen, dann ist es die Anerkennung, daß ihm zum ersten Mal in der deutschen Politik die restlose Mobilisierung der menschlichen Dummheit gelungen ist.“ Kurt Schumacher 23. Februar 1932

Vote Your Conscience.

Mary Q Contrary
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:30 am

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:58 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:What about after the war? Where did they go after the war?
We are talking about during the war, and that's why you and your colleagues ignore the questions I asked about 10 cities and 1,000,000 plus Jews in 1941-1942 - what does the evidence indicate happened to the Jews living in those places during the war?

It is clear why you keep shifting the question - to Jews who survived, to postwar migration: because the evidence of what became of large numbers of Jews in Poland and throughout the East is, to put it mildly, bad for denial. So deniers don't discuss that evidence: they switch topics. The way you're doing. Transparently.
Read the OP. We're not talking about what happened to a million plus Jews in ten cities during 1941-1942. If you want to know what happened to those people during the war, start a new thread or do some research. I'm trying to answer the "where did they go if they weren't murdered by the Nazis?" question. We've already proven that it's impossible to answer that question on a collective basis because nobody can tell us where ANY of the survivors went on a collective basis. So we need to look at where Jews went individually. I'm looking just at Treblinka because you guys need to be focused otherwise you'll go off on any number of tangents to avoid answering any of the hard questions.

In order for you guys to say that X number of Jews were sent to Treblinka and never seen again, you have to know who these Jews were. Luckily for us historians, the Jews sent to Treblinka all went by train. So there should be passenger manifests listing all these Jews. If you don't have passenger manifests, I'm willing to accept any other piece of evidence that gives us the identity of individual Jews sent to Treblinka. I asked for passenger manifests because that's the only source of this information that I am aware of. If that information is available from a different source, tell me where to find it.

My guess is that you won't because you can't. Based in the replies thus far to this simple question, I think I've been proven correct.
Thanks from:
Abraham, Jesus, Mohammed, Satan, Tinky Winky

User avatar
deathonacracker
Poster
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:40 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by deathonacracker » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:04 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:What about after the war? Where did they go after the war?
We are talking about during the war, and that's why you and your colleagues ignore the questions I asked about 10 cities and 1,000,000 plus Jews in 1941-1942 - what does the evidence indicate happened to the Jews living in those places during the war?

It is clear why you keep shifting the question - to Jews who survived, to postwar migration: because the evidence of what became of large numbers of Jews in Poland and throughout the East is, to put it mildly, bad for denial. So deniers don't discuss that evidence: they switch topics. The way you're doing. Transparently.
Read the OP. We're not talking about what happened to a million plus Jews in ten cities during 1941-1942. If you want to know what happened to those people during the war, start a new thread or do some research. I'm trying to answer the "where did they go if they weren't murdered by the Nazis?" question. We've already proven that it's impossible to answer that question on a collective basis because nobody can tell us where ANY of the survivors went on a collective basis. So we need to look at where Jews went individually. I'm looking just at Treblinka because you guys need to be focused otherwise you'll go off on any number of tangents to avoid answering any of the hard questions.

In order for you guys to say that X number of Jews were sent to Treblinka and never seen again, you have to know who these Jews were. Luckily for us historians, the Jews sent to Treblinka all went by train. So there should be passenger manifests listing all these Jews. If you don't have passenger manifests, I'm willing to accept any other piece of evidence that gives us the identity of individual Jews sent to Treblinka. I asked for passenger manifests because that's the only source of this information that I am aware of. If that information is available from a different source, tell me where to find it.

My guess is that you won't because you can't. Based in the replies thus far to this simple question, I think I've been proven correct.
Trying to figure out where they went if they weren't murdered? LOL! Gawd, you're about as silly as BT on Rodoh 2.0.

1. You can't find examples. I can find several in Bergen-Belsen, btw.
2. The reason no one can tell us is because there are not any. Get it? They all died and never left Treblinka to name one place. Now, there was a revolt and some got away. You find out where they went. That's your job to do.

Looks like you have your work cut out for you. I wish you luck.

Carry on, Soldier.

User avatar
Kaepora Gaebora
Regular Poster
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:41 pm

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Kaepora Gaebora » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:08 pm

:talkwall:

Mary can't prove where all the Jews went because she ignores the evidence that does point to where they go.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Time Out For More Fun: Lists of Jews sent to Treblinka

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Cerdic wrote:Most reliable testimonies indicate gasoline. And that is what would make more sense.
Diesel reports were further from the source - like 2nd or 3rd hand, so gasoline. I can work on pulling the info together on that later - it might be in HC Paper on MGK.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .