denierbud auschwitz

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Darren Wilshak
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:03 am

Please don't try and conflate medieval folklore with the Holocaust. How long have you been doing this. Still this bullflop? You really must think people are as stupid as you.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:04 am

Or are you going to trot out Leuchter again. LOL
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:06 am

Anyway that's your lot David, no more numbers games, you make me physically sick.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:03 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Anyway that's your lot David, no more numbers games, you make me physically sick.
Gee, do you get sick every time you loose an argument?
Or is it just your Holocaust Belief?

Do you realize what a weirdo you are...getting sick because someone doesn't believe you sick impossible story of 3,000 people being gassed in an underground trick shower?




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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:43 am

David the senile holocaust denier wrote: Gee, do you get sick every time you loose an argument? Or is it just your Holocaust Belief?
I just watched the denierbud video. David hasn't.

Here is the arithmetic for a single Krematorium, number II: Five furnaces, each with three muffles, each muffle capable of holding two to three corpses simultaneously (call it two) and burning them in half an hour, could reduce 1440 bodies to ash in twenty-four working hours. 5 times 3 times 2, divided by one-half, times 24, equals 1440.

A captured memo dated June 28, 1943, sent to SS General Kammler in Berlin, cites the number of bodies that can be disposed of in one day, at Auschwitz-Birkenau, as 4,756. This is apparently based on a 24-hour working day using the above figures, as it cites the capacity of Krema II as 1440.

What are your exact counter arguments David, the holocaust denier? You may not simply link to You tube but use your own words.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:10 pm

"David" look up what the phrase "to blank someone" means. Also ,"attention-seeking."
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:56 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the senile holocaust denier wrote: Gee, do you get sick every time you loose an argument? Or is it just your Holocaust Belief?
I just watched the denierbud video. David hasn't.

Here is the arithmetic for a single Krematorium, number II: Five furnaces, each with three muffles, each muffle capable of holding two to three corpses simultaneously (call it two) and burning them in half an hour, could reduce 1440 bodies to ash in twenty-four working hours. 5 times 3 times 2, divided by one-half, times 24, equals 1440.

A captured memo dated June 28, 1943, sent to SS General Kammler in Berlin, cites the number of bodies that can be disposed of in one day, at Auschwitz-Birkenau, as 4,756. This is apparently based on a 24-hour working day using the above figures, as it cites the capacity of Krema II as 1440.

What are your exact counter arguments David, the holocaust denier? You may not simply link to You tube but use your own words.
/quote]


Easy. Pressac himself wonders about the "captured memo"
since it includes the decommissioned Krema I, as an example of the
many oddities of the Memo.

However, to address the issue of capacity in a 24-hour working day.
The cremation ovens could not work for 24 hours straight nor were they
designed to work days on end.

They were to work in conjunction with the MORGUES.
The morgues were built for a reason...to store bodies.

The greatest energy consumption in the furnaces was raising them to
operating temperature. The plan was to store bodies in the Leichenkeller
for several days until enough had accumulated to fire up the cremation
ovens. Then, utilizing the multi-muffle design 15 bodies at a time could
be cremated. After a 12 hour period 200-400 bodies would have been
cremated in Krema II.

Together the large storage capacity of the underground morgues and the capacity of the multimuffle lead to savings.

Simple, obvious, ignored by Believers.



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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:29 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: A captured memo dated June 28, 1943, sent to SS General Kammler in Berlin, cites the number of bodies that can be disposed of in one day, at Auschwitz-Birkenau, as 4,756. This is apparently based on a 24-hour working day using the above figures, as it cites the capacity of Krema II as 1440.
So here we have an actual SS general saying what the capacity for body disposal is. Let's see what stupid excuse a senile holocaust denier can make up........
David the senile holocaust denier wrote: However, to address the issue of capacity in a 24-hour working day. The cremation ovens could not work for 24 hours straight nor were they designed to work days on end.
And what document are you basing this fact on? Your imagination? If you are going to make stuff up at least make a bit of effort.

It is interesting to note that the instructions for both the Gusen and Auschwitz ovens suggest that continued use at an even temperature will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: A captured memo dated June 28, 1943, sent to SS General Kammler in Berlin, cites the number of bodies that can be disposed of in one day, at Auschwitz-Birkenau, as 4,756. This is apparently based on a 24-hour working day using the above figures, as it cites the capacity of Krema II as 1440.
So here we have an actual SS general saying what the capacity for body disposal is. Let's see what stupid excuse a senile holocaust denier can make up........

As Senile and stupid as I may be, I am still smart enough to
see that it was NOT "actual SS general" saying anything. Kammler was the recipient :lol: :lol:



David the senile holocaust denier wrote: However, to address the issue of capacity in a 24-hour working day. The cremation ovens could not work for 24 hours straight nor were they designed to work days on end.
And what document are you basing this fact on? Your imagination? If you are going to make stuff up at least make a bit of effort.

It is interesting to note that the instructions for both the Gusen and Auschwitz ovens suggest that continued use at an even temperature will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
First, let's quote Pressac on your "big proof."
This “official” figure, coolly doubled when explaining operations to high ranking visitors (cf. SS Major Franke Gricksch’s report above, giving a figure of 10,000 in 24 hours), had no basis in practice, and probably has to be divided by two or three to arrive at the true figure. Technique page 244

As to "even temperature," of course, too rapid heating or cooling created the
damaging strains. That is why there was a morgue system of "Store and Burn"
not your goofball idea of Burn and burn.

All this underscores the IMPORTANCE of whether the ovens could run 24/7
or whether they needed to be shut down after a period of operation.






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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:36 am

David the senile holocaust denier wrote: However, to address the issue of capacity in a 24-hour working day. The cremation ovens could not work for 24 hours straight nor were they designed to work days on end.
Matthew Ellard wrote: It is interesting to note that the instructions for both the Gusen and Auschwitz ovens suggest that continued use at an even temperature will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David, you just got caught out lying. You made up a story on the spot that the muffles could not work for 24 hours. The manufacturer say continued use will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens. You can't help yourself. You make up stuff all the time. You are senile, lying holocaust denier spreading false pro-Nazi propaganda. When you get caught lying you change my font into pink as that is the only comeback you think you have! Pathetic!

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by angawawa » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:25 pm

David, what the f#*% goes on your head? You are arguing about how many people could be murdered and then burned to ash. They were {!#%@} murdered in heinous ways, they were starved, tortured, raped, experimented upon and then BURNED, their bodies reduced to ash to be disposed of like garbage. And you are actually arguing that only a lesser number could have been murdered and burned at one time. How sad that must make you. It would have been so much more glorious for you if they COULD have burned 3,000 homosexuals, Jews, gypsies, mentally ill, mentally retarded, Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, and Polish citizens every single day. The glee you exhibit is horrible and frightening. My Catholic great-grandparents came to America from Poland in 1925, not fleeing anything, just trying to make a better life. If they had waited just a few years, I might not be here today. There are times in my life when I really wish I did believe in god. There are times when the idea of hell seems like a damn good one. I am leaving these posts and not returning. Thank you to everyone who spent time refuting Davids claims.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:47 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the senile holocaust denier wrote: However, to address the issue of capacity in a 24-hour working day. The cremation ovens could not work for 24 hours straight nor were they designed to work days on end.
Matthew Ellard wrote: It is interesting to note that the instructions for both the Gusen and Auschwitz ovens suggest that continued use at an even temperature will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... -disposal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David, you just got caught out lying. You made up a story on the spot that the muffles could not work for 24 hours. The manufacturer say continued use will actually prolong the useful life of the ovens. You can't help yourself. You make up stuff all the time. You are senile, lying holocaust denier spreading false pro-Nazi propaganda. When you get caught lying you change my font into pink as that is the only comeback you think you have! Pathetic!
So in your Holocaust Fantasy the ovens work 24 hours a day? Ovens working 24 hours a day will prolong the life of the ovens? How many hours can the ovens operate before they need to be shut down? 48? 72? 6,000,000? Do they ever need to be shut down or can they just continuously burn corpses theoretically forever?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:So in your Holocaust Fantasy the ovens work 24 hours a day?
"Mary", read the manufacturer's recommendation in my link. Your personal opinion as a holocaust denier is simply worthless rubbish. We already have one senile holocaust denier here telling lies. We don't need two.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:34 pm

angawawa wrote:David, what the f#*% goes on your head? You are arguing about how many people could be murdered and then burned to ash. They were {!#%@} murdered in heinous ways, they were starved, tortured, raped, experimented upon and then BURNED, their bodies reduced to ash to be disposed of like garbage. And you are actually arguing that only a lesser number could have been murdered and burned at one time. How sad that must make you. It would have been so much more glorious for you if they COULD have burned 3,000 homosexuals, Jews, gypsies, mentally ill, mentally retarded, Catholics, Jehovah's witnesses, and Polish citizens every single day. The glee you exhibit is horrible and frightening. My Catholic great-grandparents came to America from Poland in 1925, not fleeing anything, just trying to make a better life. If they had waited just a few years, I might not be here today. There are times in my life when I really wish I did believe in god. There are times when the idea of hell seems like a damn good one. I am leaving these posts and not returning. Thank you to everyone who spent time refuting Davids claims.
My goodness...Believer fanatics sure go nuts when someone doubts
part of their weird beliefs.
Actually, denierbud's video shows that Krema II was not designed as a
"gas chamber" (something everyone now agrees on)

Denier just connects the dots and notes that it was impossible to
use the underground morgue as a mass gas chamber.


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:So in your Holocaust Fantasy the ovens work 24 hours a day?
"Mary", read the manufacturer's recommendation in my link. Your personal opinion as a holocaust denier is simply worthless rubbish. We already have one senile holocaust denier here telling lies. We don't need two.
Your stupid screaming only shows how worthless your claims
are, Matt. You are conflating instruction for a slow cooling with a continuous firing.
Cremation ovens could not be heated or cooled too quickly without creating
strains on the equipment from expansion/contraction.

OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS FOR COKE-FIRED TOPF
DOUBLE-MUFFLE INCINERATION FURNACE
which require that "Every evening, the furnace fire bars must be cleaned of clinker and the cinders removed." So servicing and cleaning needed to be done every 8-12
hours.

Here is question you have slithered away from by the way.
The Germans built expensive underground Leichenkeller...to
store bodies. That would have been unnecessary if they had intended to operate
cremation ovens 24/7.


They did this to save fuel...lots of fuel.
The coal consumption economics of multimuffle ovens is given
at http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is why the Germans built the morgue/multimuffle system.

Again, there is no argument that is what was built....morgues.

Back to your absurd Believer tales...
The idea that you can just stuff lots of bodies into a cremation oven is fantasy.
The most reasonable and relevant information are cremation rates at
other camps based on actual performance
...not dubious tales of 3-6 people
being stuffed into the small muffles based on "post war interrogations."
Here-
"A furnace of the same model had already been ordered by KL Mauthausen from Topf in November 1940 for the Gusen subcamp. It cost 9,003 RM and entered service in January 1941. Its throughput is known from notes made by the prisoners in November 1941, when 600 corpses were cremated in a period of 12 days. This gives an average of exactly 50 corpses a day for the furnace, or 25 corpses per muffle, a rate of roughly one corpse per muffle per hour. Pressac Technique.

Your claims that the same ovens at Auschwitz operated at 5 or 10 times the per
muffle capacity as those at Mauthausen is stupid even for you.


These rates mean that Krema II had the capacity to cremate 15 bodies an hour.
In a 12 hour burn, 180 bodies could be cremated.
That would be 3 or 4 days "normal" death rate at the camp...bodies which had
been stored in the morgue.

The German plan was an organized unified plan, Store and burn


But, again, Matt is trying to dodge what was ACTUALLY built...morgues




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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:34 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:So in your Holocaust Fantasy the ovens work 24 hours a day? Ovens working 24 hours a day will prolong the life of the ovens? How many hours can the ovens operate before they need to be shut down? 48? 72? 6,000,000? Do they ever need to be shut down or can they just continuously burn corpses theoretically forever?
There's nothing weird about that 24 hour shift. That's how it is working on furnaces making aluminum for instance. I know a bit about that since there's a big aluminum factory in my home county.

Why do they work 24 hours round shifts? Well, for one thing it is easier to get the temp up and maintain it, than starting the machinery up and down all the time. Takes a while to get it back to the right temp as well, so the bother is not worth it. Secondly, the most stressful force for materials is various heating and cooling. That puts a much higher strain on materials then mere high temperature that the furnaces are designed to contain anyway. Constant heat it can handle is better than heating/cooling. That heat/cold interaction is a major force of erosion. You can also see the effect at home if you put a still hot pan from the stove, and put it under running cold water. Yuo get an impressive reaction, and eventually, an unusable pan since the material starts to peel off.

So that is not at all weird. Whether they burned bodies for 24 hours straight is another matter, but I suspect they did if the bodies piled up. Not like they had to worry about workforce regulations or anything...

Now, the question is why did they need ever-burning furnaces like that?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:54 pm

David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:So in your Holocaust Fantasy the ovens work 24 hours a day?
"Mary", read the manufacturer's recommendation in my link. Your personal opinion as a holocaust denier is simply worthless rubbish. We already have one senile holocaust denier here telling lies. We don't need two.
Thank you for sharing. I could not help but notice that you didn't answer the question. The manufacturer's recommendations do not seem to recommend operating the ovens continuously forever. How many hours can they operate before they must be shut down?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:11 am

OutOfBreath wrote: There's nothing weird about that 24 hour shift. That's how it is working on furnaces making aluminum for instance. I know a bit about that since there's a big aluminum factory in my home county.
Dan
Shades of Sarah Palin: She knew all about foreign affairs 'cuz
Russia was visible from Alaska! Anyway Believers need to claim that
the capacity of the 5 ovens at Krema II was amazingly high.
Part of the idea is that lots of bodies got stuffed into the muffles.

Another part is that the cremation oven could work 24/7.

I do not know the correct answer but, based on the manual cited, on the
operation of other similar cremation ovens at other camps, and on the idea that the crematoria needed to be emptied of ash and cleaned, I doubt it.

However, the point Denier makes is that the Germans also built morgues.
Believers ignore this...and focus on half the equation.
They claim impossibly rates for the cremation ovens and then ask
"Why?!?"
The real "why" is the why did the Germans build the morgues.
If Believer claims of 24/7 crematoria use were correct, there would be
NO NEED FOR A MORGUE.

Last edited by David on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:49 am

Nessie wrote:David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
To give you a quick uncited answer- morgues and multimuffles


The system the Germans built was a combination morgue and multimuffle
oven system.
If you only look at the "big Kremas" and ignore the morgue, then you get the wrong idea.
Believers ignore the morgues.

The idea was to store several days of bodies and burn them all at once in
one oven with three muffles. This was a significant energy savings.

There is more to the history of the Auschwitz Kremas.
In Spring 1942 the Germans reduced the number of cremation muffles
at Auschwitz. The records of three months are missing, dixit Pressac.
After the typhus outbreak of summer of 1942 the final number of cremation
facilities is established. Pressac states that this is due to the salesmanship
of Pruefer.

Part of the equation is that Krema I was slated to be abandoned.
Part of the equation is that Krema IV and V were shut down and one abandoned...
indicating that capacity was OVER built.

As to your question, "Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale"
I am not enough educated on the subject to give you a complete answer.
Other camps did have multimuffle cremation ovens but Pressac looks at
the number of muffles per number of inmates
Compared to other camps Auschwitz has a higher muffle inmate ratio.
Pressac takes this as an indication of a sinister plan.

Like so many other issues, there are different ways to look at the question.
For example what was the expected population of Auschwitz?
Pressac tends to think that the camp was not going to grow.
Revisionists note that the "Mexico" area was under construction and Birkenau
could have had a population of 150,000.
Another issue is that Birkenau was supposed to be the central cremation point
for the surrounding sub-camps. There were 49 of these.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_su ... _Auschwitz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Including these inmates in the numbers shifts the inmate/muffle ratio toward
a "normal" figure.

The plan to centralize cremation facilitiess was abandoned in 1944 and Kori "pocket" cremation ovens were used to serve the subcamps. Believers ignore all this.


So My semi-educated understanding is that the morgue/multimuffle plan, ie
store and burn, did not work but seems, if you ignore the morgues,
to suggest a higher cremation capacity that was actually planned or needed.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:19 am

Nessie wrote:David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
The idiot holocaust deniers are stating that the Krema could neither handle the capacity not could operate for 24 hours for more that a week. They are both lying. Here is German evidence.

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler
estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours
in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 20 1943
[Pressac, p. 247]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1.) Crematorium I
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3 x 2 muffles 340 persons

2.) Crematorium II
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons

3.) Crematorium III
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons

4.) Crematorium IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 muffles 768 persons

5.) Crematorium V
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 muffles 768 persons


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, Germany, March 5, 1946. Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993:

Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?

A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.

Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?

A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn 1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because there were not enough workers.

Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?

A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time. I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages, which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and came to the conclusion that the furnaces were working well.

Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?

A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took place the liquidation of innocent human beings?

A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.

Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?

A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; and he installed them.

Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?

A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal.


Remember.....Holocaust deniers are really really stupid and lie through their teeth. They are like child perverts and will tell any story to get attention.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:46 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote:David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
To give you a quick uncited answer- morgues and multimuffles


The system the Germans built was a combination morgue and multimuffle
oven system.
If you only look at the "big Kremas" and ignore the morgue, then you get the wrong idea.
Believers ignore the morgues.

The idea was to store several days of bodies and burn them all at once in
one oven with three muffles. This was a significant energy savings.

There is more to the history of the Auschwitz Kremas.
In Spring 1942 the Germans reduced the number of cremation muffles
at Auschwitz. The records of three months are missing, dixit Pressac.
After the typhus outbreak of summer of 1942 the final number of cremation
facilities is established. Pressac states that this is due to the salesmanship
of Pruefer.

Part of the equation is that Krema I was slated to be abandoned.
Part of the equation is that Krema IV and V were shut down and one abandoned...
indicating that capacity was OVER built.

As to your question, "Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale"
I am not enough educated on the subject to give you a complete answer.
Other camps did have multimuffle cremation ovens but Pressac looks at
the number of muffles per number of inmates
Compared to other camps Auschwitz has a higher muffle inmate ratio.
Pressac takes this as an indication of a sinister plan.

Like so many other issues, there are different ways to look at the question.
For example what was the expected population of Auschwitz?
Pressac tends to think that the camp was not going to grow.
Revisionists note that the "Mexico" area was under construction and Birkenau
could have had a population of 150,000.
Another issue is that Birkenau was supposed to be the central cremation point
for the surrounding sub-camps. There were 49 of these.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_su ... _Auschwitz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Including these inmates in the numbers shifts the inmate/muffle ratio toward
a "normal" figure.

The plan to centralize cremation facilitiess was abandoned in 1944 and Kori "pocket" cremation ovens were used to serve the subcamps. Believers ignore all this.


So My semi-educated understanding is that the morgue/multimuffle plan, ie
store and burn, did not work but seems, if you ignore the morgues,
to suggest a higher cremation capacity that was actually planned or needed.
My cited response to that is "Compared to other camps Auschwitz has a higher muffle inmate ratio. Pressac takes this as an indication of a sinister plan.". I agree, as does this analysis

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschw ... lysis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Clearly, as we can see, the incineration capacity of the Kremas was enourmous. Far in excess for incinerating 48,000- or even 480,000 -people. In fact, using the 48,000 number of "natural deaths" and the incineration capacity of 1,018,350 bodies for this period we see that the Kremas had a capacity of just over 21 times the "natural" death rate! Such "overkill" simply boggles the mind. There is no rational reason why such a incineration capacity is required. A _single_ crematorium such as Krema V (with lesser capacity than Kremas II or III) had a monthly capacity of 37,000 bodies per month and was excessive. If simply handling the bodies from "natural causes" was all that was _really_ intended, even the old crematorium, Krema I, would have easily sufficed with its cpacity of about 10,000 bodies a month! (Even then it would _still_ have had twice the required capacity!)"

Let us say there were only morgues and not gas chambers. That still makes Birkenau a death camp as planned at Wannsee as the minutes record

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution
the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East.
Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in
large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the
course of which action doubtless a large portion will be
eliminated by natural causes.

The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly
consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated
accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and
would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival
(see the experience of history.)"

I contend that even if no gassings took place in the Krema buildings utilising their morgues as gas chambers, there was still a planned extermination of the Jews happening.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:46 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Nessie wrote:David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
The idiot holocaust deniers are stating that the Krema could neither handle the capacity not could operate for 24 hours for more that a week. They are both lying. Here is German evidence.

Yawn...you are preaching an impossibility, Matt. Screaming
stupidities does not improve your case.

The Cremation furnaces at Auschwitz were just like those installed at other camps or even the Kori furnaces used at sub-camps. And we know their capacity;
about one body per hour. Waiving around a post-War interrogation is weak evidence compared to real figures and common sense.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:51 pm

Nessie wrote: I contend that even if no gassings took place in the Krema buildings utilising their morgues as gas chambers, there was still a planned extermination of the Jews happening.
Hello Nessie- Obviously the Germans were planning for a large number of deaths
but it is also obvious that they did not plan or use Krema II as a "gas chamber."

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Nessie wrote:David, why did Birkenau need such big Kremas? Did any other camps have Kremas on such a scale?
The idiot holocaust deniers are stating that the Krema could neither handle the capacity not could operate for 24 hours for more that a week. They are both lying. Here is German evidence.

Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler
estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours
in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 20 1943
[Pressac, p. 247]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1.) Crematorium I
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3 x 2 muffles 340 persons

2.) Crematorium II
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons

3.) Crematorium III
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
5 x 3 muffles 1440 persons

4.) Crematorium IV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 muffles 768 persons

5.) Crematorium V
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8 muffles 768 persons


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, Germany, March 5, 1946. Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993:


Given a choice, I would rather see the interrogation transcripts instead of quotes taken from the transcripts that were published in the New York Times in 1993.

Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?

A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas" [crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.

Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?

A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn 1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because there were not enough workers.

Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?

A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time. I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages, which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and came to the conclusion that the furnaces were working well.

Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?

A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.


What was this "connecting structure" that he described? I thought the gas chamber was below the crematorium and a lift was used to bring the bodies up to be cremated.

Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took place the liquidation of innocent human beings?

A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.

Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?

A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers; and he installed them.

Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?

A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal.
I thought the furnaces could operate continuously indefinitely. What gives?
Remember.....Holocaust deniers are really really stupid and lie through their teeth. They are like child perverts and will tell any story to get attention.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Here is German evidence.
David the senile holocaust denier wrote: Yawn...you are preaching an impossibility, Matt. Screaming stupidities does not improve your case.
So the man who built Krema II at Auschwitz confesses that he saw the liquidations of Jews at Auschwitz. The commanding officer of Auschwitz, Hoess confesses that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. We have eyewitnesses, documentary evidence and so on that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz

However our two neo Nazis, David the senile holocaust denier and his side kick Mary, change fonts to pink and take girls names as their best rebuttal. Fantastic, we now have gay holocaust deniers. No wonder David Irving and David Cole recanted with Mary and David pinching their arses all the time.

Hey David if you like little boys, change my font to pink again as an indication. :mrgreen:

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:59 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: What was this "connecting structure" that he described? I thought the gas chamber was below the crematorium and a lift was used to bring the bodies up to be cremated.
A lift is a connecting structure. It connects one level with another. Now for your next really stupid question......
Mary Q Contrary wrote: I thought the furnaces could operate continuously indefinitely. What gives?
What did the man who built the Kremas say in his own words?......"The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal".

I know holocaust deniers are stupid but if either of you watched the denierbud video you would have noticed he stole the footage from a conventional history project that clearly shows the lift. Poor senile David can't actually say in words why it is impossible but he's very good at changing font colours.

Crematorium II at Auschwitz-Birkenau
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:34 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote: I contend that even if no gassings took place in the Krema buildings utilising their morgues as gas chambers, there was still a planned extermination of the Jews happening.
Hello Nessie- Obviously the Germans were planning for a large number of deaths
but it is also obvious that they did not plan or use Krema II as a "gas chamber."
Good, you admit the plan was for large number of deaths. So do you accept that there was ethnic cleansing and genocide by the Nazis against the Jews and other groups in Germany and the occupied territories during WWII?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:37 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: What was this "connecting structure" that he described? I thought the gas chamber was below the crematorium and a lift was used to bring the bodies up to be cremated.
A lift is a connecting structure. It connects one level with another. Now for your next really stupid question......
Isn't there a German word for "lift" or "elevator" or something a little more specific than a "connecting structure?" You ever heard a lift described as a connecting structure? No matter because he wasn't talking about the lift anyway. He said the connecting structure was between the gas chamber and the crematorium, which a lift isn't. His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.
Mary Q Contrary wrote: I thought the furnaces could operate continuously indefinitely. What gives?
What did the man who built the Kremas say in his own words?......"The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the furnaces was colossal".
Then why'd you say the furnaces could operate continuously indefinitely? Turning off the furnaces and letting them cool down and then heating them back up again is what caused damage. Just keep 'em going 24/7 and they'll last forever. You should write down what you say so you don't constantly contradict yourself.

I know holocaust deniers are stupid but if either of you watched the denierbud video you would have noticed he stole the footage from a conventional history project that clearly shows the lift. Poor senile David can't actually say in words why it is impossible but he's very good at changing font colours.

Crematorium II at Auschwitz-Birkenau
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: Here is German evidence.
David the senile holocaust denier wrote: Yawn...you are preaching an impossibility, Matt. Screaming stupidities does not improve your case.
So the man who built Krema II at Auschwitz confesses that he saw the liquidations of Jews at Auschwitz. The commanding officer of Auschwitz, Hoess confesses that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. We have eyewitnesses, documentary evidence and so on that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz

However our two neo Nazis, David the senile holocaust denier and his side kick Mary, change fonts to pink and take girls names as their best rebuttal. Fantastic, we now have gay holocaust deniers. No wonder David Irving and David Cole recanted with Mary and David pinching their arses all the time.

Hey David if you like little boys, change my font to pink again as an indication. :mrgreen:
And they say Holocaust denial is hate speech?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:15 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: And they say Holocaust denial is hate speech?
Yes I hate holocaust deniers and neo-nazis. Who doesn't?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:33 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
...... His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.

......
The problem with that claim is revisionist/deniers ignore the huge amount of study of witnesses who suffer PTSD from the events they witnessed.

You cannot rule that out as an explanation for they way witnesses to the Holocaust recount their testimony.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:23 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
...... His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.

......
The problem with that claim is revisionist/deniers ignore the huge amount of study of witnesses who suffer PTSD from the events they witnessed.

You cannot rule that out as an explanation for they way witnesses to the Holocaust recount their testimony.
If the "horrors" they witnessed makes their testimony unreliable, it is still unreliable. But we're talking about the testimony of one of the perpetrators anyway.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:12 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
...... His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.

......
The problem with that claim is revisionist/deniers ignore the huge amount of study of witnesses who suffer PTSD from the events they witnessed.

You cannot rule that out as an explanation for they way witnesses to the Holocaust recount their testimony.
If the "horrors" they witnessed makes their testimony unreliable, it is still unreliable. But we're talking about the testimony of one of the perpetrators anyway.
You need to do some reading before you right off witnesses testimony like that. Make sure you are correct to do so with proper evidence. You also need to show why a perpetrator would not also have PTSD. You have a lot of work to do to rule out PTSD as a reason for the issues revisionist/deniers have with witness testimony.

Bet you that you will not do any of that. The problem for you is any evidence which explains why the witnesses are behaving as they do and that their testimony is not unreliable ruins a major revisionist/denier belief. That some how all Holocaust witnesses are unreliable and or lying.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:47 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
...... His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.

......
The problem with that claim is revisionist/deniers ignore the huge amount of study of witnesses who suffer PTSD from the events they witnessed.

You cannot rule that out as an explanation for they way witnesses to the Holocaust recount their testimony.
If the "horrors" they witnessed makes their testimony unreliable, it is still unreliable. But we're talking about the testimony of one of the perpetrators anyway.
You need to do some reading before you right off witnesses testimony like that. Make sure you are correct to do so with proper evidence. You also need to show why a perpetrator would not also have PTSD. You have a lot of work to do to rule out PTSD as a reason for the issues revisionist/deniers have with witness testimony.

Bet you that you will not do any of that. The problem for you is any evidence which explains why the witnesses are behaving as they do and that their testimony is not unreliable ruins a major revisionist/denier belief. That some how all Holocaust witnesses are unreliable and or lying.
You need to learn critical thinking skills so you don't continue making a fool of yourself. I write off all unreliable testimony. You are the person who advanced the PTSD theory to explain why some Holocaust "survivor" is shatbit crazy. Whether their crazy talk is result of PTSD or a result of being contemptible liars doesn't matter to me at all. If the testimony is unreliable, it is unreliable. Period Full stop. If you think that testimony that is unreliable can still be useful to scholars, well then I guess you must be a Holocaust historian.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by nickterry » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:50 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
...... His interrogation has the fuzziness we've grown accustomed to seeing with Holocaustianity. It's typical of somebody confessing to a crime when they don't have any idea what they're talking about.

......
The problem with that claim is revisionist/deniers ignore the huge amount of study of witnesses who suffer PTSD from the events they witnessed.

You cannot rule that out as an explanation for they way witnesses to the Holocaust recount their testimony.
If the "horrors" they witnessed makes their testimony unreliable, it is still unreliable. But we're talking about the testimony of one of the perpetrators anyway.
You need to do some reading before you right off witnesses testimony like that. Make sure you are correct to do so with proper evidence. You also need to show why a perpetrator would not also have PTSD. You have a lot of work to do to rule out PTSD as a reason for the issues revisionist/deniers have with witness testimony.

Bet you that you will not do any of that. The problem for you is any evidence which explains why the witnesses are behaving as they do and that their testimony is not unreliable ruins a major revisionist/denier belief. That some how all Holocaust witnesses are unreliable and or lying.
You need to learn critical thinking skills so you don't continue making a fool of yourself. I write off all unreliable testimony. You are the person who advanced the PTSD theory to explain why some Holocaust "survivor" is shatbit crazy. Whether their crazy talk is result of PTSD or a result of being contemptible liars doesn't matter to me at all. If the testimony is unreliable, it is unreliable. Period Full stop. If you think that testimony that is unreliable can still be useful to scholars, well then I guess you must be a Holocaust historian.
You seem to have a very black-and-white view of reliability. ALL historians have to deal with sources that are less than perfectly reliable. So do all lawyers, judges and juries and also journalists. There is no such thing as the perfect witness, because human beings do not always express themselves with perfect clarity, nor do they have perfect memories.

In the above case, you're looking at a translation of an interrogation conducted in German, which was then translated into Russian and thence into English, and objecting to the source because the words 'connecting structure' sound weird to you.

That is completely frakking ridiculous, because you have no idea what words were originally used.

But, even after being garbled through TWO languages, it's actually fairly clear that Pruefer was referrring to KREMATORIUM IV OR V which was built entirely above ground with gas chambers at one end, a vestibule in the middle and then the oven room. The vestibule would very much be a 'connecting structure'. The choice of words would point to Krema IV or V and not Krema II or III.

Now because there were two types of crematorium, it's easy to see how in a discussion of the Birkenau crematoria, someone might mix them up unless they are asked specifically about one or the other type.

Understanding what a source - any source - is saying invariably requires a great deal of background knowledge to spot the references, allusions and decipher what might seem to be vague references at first glance. This is a good example. You're so hung up on the basement crematoria you seem to have forgotten entirely about the other type. That's a honking great fail.

We also know, by the way, that Kremas IV and V broke down in the summer of 1943 and were mothballed for the autumn and winter of 1943-44, only being reactivated in the early summer of 1944, at which point one of them promptly broke down again entirely. There was also damage to Krema II (IIRC) which was successfully repaired. All this left a fair old paper trail. So Pruefer's remarks about damage to the brick lining fit with what is known from documents. Indeed, because the Soviet interrogators had access to the documents, they asked him a lot of questions based on the documents. Pruefer undoubtedly knew this - especially when being asked to comment directly on documents, which he did in other portions of these interrogations not quoted above..

Literally every single witness who set foot inside the Birkenau crematoria reports the presence of gas chambers, no matter who interrogated them or to whom they gave testimony or whether they just wrote it down in a manuscript that was buried onsite and recovered after the war, or if they recalled their experiences later. And no matter if they were Polish, Russian, Jewish or German, whether they were a camp inmate, an SS man or a civilian contractor like Pruefer.

Collectively, there must be 100s of 1000s of words of description of the Birkenau crematoria and gas chambers available. They are on the whole quite detailed. Certainly detailed enough to be correlated and matched to the blueprints and construction documents over and over and over and over again. Undoubtedly, being human, each witness was unclear on this or that point. Collectively they are perfectly clear.

You're welcome to prove otherwise, but that would require demonstrating each and every witness is "unreliable" through and through. Not on cherrypicking a single point in a single witness which you don't quite understand or which was sloppily expressed. There are good workable models in how to assess collective witness reliability in various disciplines, including psychology, and this cohort of witnesses would ace those tests, far better than a group of witnesses to a drive by shooting.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: And they say Holocaust denial is hate speech?
Yes I hate holocaust deniers and neo-nazis. Who doesn't?
And everyone has concerns about Believer fanatic pederasts who conflate facts!

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:16 am

nickterry wrote:
You seem to have a very black-and-white view of reliability. ALL historians have to deal with sources that are less than perfectly reliable. So do all lawyers, judges and juries and also journalists. There is no such thing as the perfect witness, because human beings do not always express themselves with perfect clarity, nor do they have perfect memories.
There are also totally sucky witnesses who claim to have seen witches, devils, angels and flying saucers. Nick spends a huge amount of his
time trying to figure out "excuses" for wacky inaccurate testimony.
Steam chambers and diesel chambers all become something that could
"arguable" work to kill people.



In the above case, you're looking at a translation of an interrogation conducted in German, which was then translated into Russian and thence into English, and objecting to the source because the words 'connecting structure' sound weird to you.

That is completely frakking ridiculous, because you have no idea what words were originally used.

Or, more likely, the witness didn't know what the fig to say.

But, even after being garbled through TWO languages, it's actually fairly clear that Pruefer was referrring to KREMATORIUM IV OR V which was built entirely above ground with gas chambers at one end, a vestibule in the middle and then the oven room. The vestibule would very much be a 'connecting structure'. The choice of words would point to Krema IV or V and not Krema II or III.

Now because there were two types of crematorium, it's easy to see how in a discussion of the Birkenau crematoria, someone might mix them up unless they are asked specifically about one or the other type.
Gawd, what a lame dishonest "explanation."
Even if Pruefer were such a rambling goof all you have to do is look at a
picture of Krema IV or V and see that the the crematoria and the
alleged undressing room were part of the same building. There was
no "connecting structure" since they were part of the same building!
To see the brazen dishonesty of Nick see
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aus ... -photo.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




Understanding what a source - any source - is saying invariably requires a great deal of background knowledge to spot the references, allusions and decipher what might seem to be vague references at first glance. This is a good example. You're so hung up on the basement crematoria you seem to have forgotten entirely about the other type. That's a honking great fail.

Not as stupid and dishonest as pretending that one building
is "really" partly a "connecting structure"

[Snip drivel]
On the other hand not one witness testified to seeing the striking cherry red color
which occurs when people die from carbon monoxide poisoning.

Of course, this striking effect is very esoteric knowledge so the
eye witnesses all "forgot" they saw it.

Rather than engage in absurd contortions putting together disparate and conflicting
"eye witnessing" explain why all your "diesel and gasoline engine" deaths
miss this absolutely necessary element?

[/color]



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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:30 am

Talk to homophobic Matthew. He said the connecting structure was a lift. You guys can't agree on anything. No wonder the Holocaust will one day be erased from the pages of history.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:14 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:Talk to homophobic Matthew. He said the connecting structure was a lift. You guys can't agree on anything. No wonder the Holocaust will one day be erased from the pages of history.
What is amazing to me is the extent that these Believer
experts will go to come up with crackpot "explanations" for the contradictory
tales. Look at the stupidities with the Prufer quote

"Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?

A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and the crematorium there was a connecting structure.

Nickterry claims that Prufer is talking about Krema IV and V...
Why did he talk Prufer speak of "the crematorium?" He should have
said " 'two crematorium' had gas chambers next to them"
We have seen that the comment about "connecting structure" is bogus.
It was one building.
See http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aus ... an-1678.jp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But the alleged "gas chamber" of Krema IV and V consisted of several
rooms.