denierbud auschwitz

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Hans
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Hans » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:18 am

David wrote:
However the date of construction and alleged conversion also plays havoc with the
alleged "schedule" of the Holocaust. If you recall, at Nuremberg Hoess testified
that he was told in June 1941 to make Auschwitz the center of extermination of
the Jews...yet Believers admit that Krema II could not have been used as a gas chamber before March 1943. Why the delay?
David,

you are beating a dead horse. Leaving aside Pressac (1993), historians Robert Van Pelt (1996) and Kathrin Orth (1997) have already established that Höß' dating of the order by Himmler was incorrect.

Hence you cannot use the date for any argument, except to point out that Höß may have got some dates and context wrong in his various accounts.

It's a bit ironic that it is you who is trying to maintain the outdated picture the extermination of Jews in Auschwitz was ordered in summer 1941 for us, which was already revised and dismissed at least 16 years ago by historians. That's exactly why Revisionism isn't.

The lack of holes on the roof is another necessary change that was not
made.
While you mention it, the holes were actually made into the roof when the concrete was poured:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... gs-at.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:16 pm

Hans wrote:
David wrote:
However the date of construction and alleged conversion also plays havoc with the
alleged "schedule" of the Holocaust. If you recall, at Nuremberg Hoess testified
that he was told in June 1941 to make Auschwitz the center of extermination of
the Jews...yet Believers admit that Krema II could not have been used as a gas chamber before March 1943. Why the delay?
David,

you are beating a dead horse. Leaving aside Pressac (1993), historians Robert Van Pelt (1996) and Kathrin Orth (1997) have already established that Höß' dating of the order by Himmler was incorrect.

Hence you cannot use the date for any argument, except to point out that Höß may have got some dates and context wrong in his various accounts.
"May have got some dates wrong??" :lol: :lol:

Yes, poor Hoess forgot his birthday, the year he graduated from high school,
the year he was called to Berlin and ordered to commit mass murder.

Of course you can use Hoess' giving a wrong date for arguments, lots of arguments.
Hoess was carefully questioned for the Nuremberg Tribunal and had plenty of
time to reflect on the correct "answer." The Nuremberg Tribunal
specifically cited the date in their findings. Why Hoess was so wrong on so
many things is a different topic...

So... please keep track of the topic. The Revisionist view that Hoess's
"confessions" are unreliable has long been accepted by almost all Believers.
I was not bringing Hoess up to "beat a dead horse" but to show how
Denierbud's raises excellent video raises havoc with Believer theories
of the timing of the Holocaust.




It's a bit ironic that it is you who is trying to maintain the outdated picture the extermination of Jews in Auschwitz was ordered in summer 1941 for us, which was already revised and dismissed at least 16 years ago by historians. That's exactly why Revisionism isn't.

Hans, you are so determined to make a nasty remark that you
bite yourself in the butt. Revisionists have said for decades Hoess was unreliable.
It just took you Believers 45 years to figure it out.

But to help you stay on track, what does Denierbud/Pressac's point about Krema II
being built with underground Leichenkeller in 1943 mean to your theories
of the organization of the "Holocaust?"

The lack of holes on the roof is another necessary change that was not
made.
While you mention it, the holes were actually made into the roof when the concrete was poured:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... gs-at.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:32 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:No one believes in "magically disappearing bodies" either. This is an utter strawman, it has been repeatedly demonstrated (forget that guy Berg, he's an out and out lunatic crank) that it is entirely possible to gas to death and afterward cremate large numbers of people. There is no magic involved. The only magic in the whole scene as far as I can tell is how 600 flatly contradictory obscure cranks can continue to keep this offensive crap going.

??? How or where has it "been repeatedly demonstrated" that it is possible kill 3,000 people at a time in an underground room?

And where do you claim the 1,100,000-4,000,000 bodies went?

Fritz Berg may be a crank, but he is absolutely correct that it would have been
impossible to kill people using an unloaded diesel engine as Believers claim.

Darren, you seem pretty good at throwing made up "crap" on the table.
Denierbud's video politely but skeptically looks at wild unsubstatiated claims that
people like you make and weighs the ugly tales against science and logic.


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:45 pm

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Hans, you are so determined to make a nasty remark that you bite yourself in the butt. Revisionists have said for decades Hoess was unreliable. It just took you Believers 45 years to figure it out.
The judges knew that Hoess didn't take notes during the actual trial. You are pretending to forget this yet again. You are simply trying to spread holocaust denier propaganda by repeating debunked lies.

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Hans, you are so determined to make a nasty remark that you bite yourself in the butt. Revisionists have said for decades Hoess was unreliable. It just took you Believers 45 years to figure it out.
The judges knew that Hoess didn't take notes during the actual trial. You are pretending to forget this yet again. You are simply trying to spread holocaust denier propaganda by repeating debunked lies.

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
?? We are discussing a different Hoess "mistake," the date of his seemingly unmemorable trip to Berlin to meet Himmler to be given the "secret Hitler Order" to launch a program of mass murder.

Just like you Believers have slowly realized that Hoess' various and conflicting
"confessions" were wrong regarding the date of his alleged meeting, Believers
now admit that Revisionists were also right that ALL of Hoess various and conflicting
confessions on death tolls were millions and millions of victims wrong.

The Nuremberg Show trial was somewhere between 1,500,000 to 3,000,000 victims off regarding Auschwitz and 1,425,000 off regarding Majdanek.


Of course, you are too stupid/dishonest to admit that Hoess merely confessed to the
figures and dates that his interrogators wanted



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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:37 am

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]
David wrote: Just like you Believers have slowly realized that Hoess' various and conflicting "confessions" were wrong regarding the date of his alleged meeting, Believers
No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession.

Hoess confessed and you are one "really out of date" holocaust denier desperate to get attention for a dead cult.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:35 am

David wrote:......
Darren, you seem pretty good at throwing made up "crap" on the table.
Denierbud's video politely but skeptically looks at wild unsubstatiated claims that
people like you make and weighs the ugly tales against science and logic.

.....
No Denierbud's video is a critique of a version of how Krema II functioned. Even if that version is flawed, all Denierbud shows is how Krema II could have easily functioned as a gas chamber, with fewer people going through it than some figures suggest did.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:.......
No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession. ......
David, yet again you fail to reconcile how witnesses actually behave in the real world with what was really said.

I would love to see you as a witness. By your standard you are a liar unless you have perfect recollection which agees with your own version of events.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:54 am

"David" I was actually making a general point for your benefit mystified that you continue this utter nonsense. If your need for denial now stretches so far that you'll imply that I was stating that 3 million people could be gassed and disposed of in ONE chamber, you must think that everyone is a stupid and offensive as you, I guess.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by berty48 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:40 pm

I am not sure why anyone bothers to debate David and his silly slobber about Hoess's veracity. No one needs to worry about Hoess's figures or dates because vast numbers of Nazis who worked at these death camps all corroborated the basic narrative with no exceptions. Furthermore, in the past 70 years, no descendant, spouse or family member of any of these perpetrators has ever taken issue with the narrative, no surviving Nazi has ever written a deathbed memoir taking issue with the narrative, and it is crystal clear that the network of individuals having knowledge of the insider details of the Nazi estermination machine must number in the tens of thousands. Why would Judge Konrad Morgan have testified at Nuremberg to having heard the intimate details of the AR camps from the AR CEO, Christian Wirth? Morgan also testified to seeing the wealth stolen from the AR victims and to witnessing the extermination process at Auschwitz.

Fools like David sometimes cite Morgan's SS investigations as supporting their b*llsh*t notions.

Do any of these cranks really argue that not one single SS witness ever told his second cousin or a member of his bowling team that he wished to come clean? "Hey, dude, I worked at Belzec for the whole time of its operation and I know for a fact that there was NO gas chambers there."

The idea that huge numbers of people, first hand, second hand, hearsay, all agreed, with NO exceptions, that these places operated exactly as we have been told, should tell anyone with a nominal set of wits that the Holocaust narrative, in its basic structure cannot be reasonably disputed.

The fact that Gustav Munsberger lived with his son for years, and that his son was absolutely convinced that his father drove Jews into gas chambers with a whip, should tell a nominally brain-endowed thinker that there can be no doubt that Gustav Munsberger did exactly what prosecutors said he did. If Munsberger's son had doubts, he would have been on the phone to Faurisson asking for help. Can anyone with an IQ in even double digits believe that Gustav Munsberger, charged with beating women and children into gas chambers on a daily basis, would have allowed his son to believe this over the years of sharing the same roof, if there were no gas chambers at Treblinka?

The unanimous agreement of those exposed to these acts and perpetrators makes David's slobber into contempable hate speech. David is either vicious or stupid, and should be ignored. One is not going to reason with this fool. He'll die first.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:22 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:"David" I was actually making a general point for your benefit mystified that you continue this utter nonsense. If your need for denial now stretches so far that you'll imply that I was stating that 3 million people could be gassed and disposed of in ONE chamber, you must think that everyone is a stupid and offensive as you, I guess.
Hello Darren- You seem confused. I wrote,
"How or where has it "been repeatedly demonstrated" that it is possible kill 3,000 people at a time in an underground room?"

The Believer claim regarding Leichenkeller 1 of Krema II, the subject of Denier's
video, is that 3,000 people were gassed in the room at a time, often several groups
a day.
I think it is utter nonsense to believe that it is possible.
But being a curious sort of person, I wondered if you had any evidence to back up your claim,

"it has been repeatedly demonstrated ...that it is entirely possible to gas to death and afterward cremate large numbers of people."

Do you?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:40 am

[quote="Matthew Ellard"] No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession.


Matt- Of course the judges knew that Hoess testimony was flawed...pretty obvious since the figures he gave varied by 1,500,000!!
That is the point!

Why did the Tribunal allow a witness they knew was confused testify, let alone use him as the star witness regarding the date of the mysterious "Hitler Order?'

In its Judgment, the Tribunal relied on Hoess for its finding that,
"In the summer of 1941, however, plans were made for the " final solution" of the Jewish question in all of Europe."
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/judwarcr.asp#persecution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even YOU know that is very wrong.
Looks like the Tribunal was as confused as the battered Mr. Hoess...or happy with whatever faked off the wall crap that they could use to promote their propaganda.

Last edited by David on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:07 am

Nessie wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:.......
No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession. ......
David, yet again you fail to reconcile how witnesses actually behave in the real world with what was really said.

I would love to see you as a witness. By your standard you are a liar unless you have perfect recollection which agees with your own version of events.
Nessie, are you being stupid for a reason?
Obviously, people forget things all the time. However, there are certain things
that you don't forget...like the year you graduated from High school.
Here, Hoess claims to be called to Berlin to meet Himmler and start a program
of mass murder. Not only that but he had plenty of time to think about it...
let's see, the war with Russia just started, etc.

On the otherhand, Hoess remembers other dates (that can be confirmed) like the
day he left command of Auschwitz.
"I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 to 1 May, 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz. l commanded Auschwitz until 1 December,1943,"
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1946Hoess.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So why can he accurately remember real dates but "forget" the day, month
and even the year that he was called to Berlin to meet Himmler?


The answer is quite simple...if Hoess gave a particular day that he met Himmler
in Berlin, it could be checked.
Can't have that!


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession.
David the holocaust denier wrote:Matt- Of course the judges knew that Hoess testimony was flawed...pretty obvious since the figures he gave varied by 1,500,000!! That is the point!
Wrong again. Court evidence is corroborative. Hoess may make some mistakes, but his testimony is still read into the court as evidence where it coincides with other evidence. He confessed to mass executions and you can't wiggle your way out of that. Nice try holocaust denier. Your own pin-up boy said he did it.

Tsk tsk tsk, no big kisses from David for his Hoess pin-up boy poster tonight!

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:11 am

David wrote:
....

Nessie, are you being stupid for a reason?
Obviously, people forget things all the time. However, there are certain things
that you don't forget...like the year you graduated from High school.
.......


You present that as a guaranteed fact. Yet go to a court and see how people fluff or have to think about even the simplest of questions like, how old are you?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:49 pm

Nessie wrote: You present that as a guaranteed fact. Yet go to a court and see how people fluff or have to think about even the simplest of questions like, how old are you?
Ask me that outside of court in a congenial setting, I still have to think about it for a bit. And it's not because I'm old as father time either. Luckily my birthday is in a round year, so I can quickly calculate it. :)

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:28 pm

Yes there is ample evidence, not from cranks like Berg or Gerdes or Rudolf or Mattogno however where I think you get your ideas from and from White Nazi nutcases . Perhaps you get some of them from those guys or from people like Berty 48.

But from whichever trash bin you fish them out of I think it is your problem.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession.
David the holocaust denier wrote:Matt- Of course the judges knew that Hoess testimony was flawed...pretty obvious since the figures he gave varied by 1,500,000!! That is the point!
Wrong again. Court evidence is corroborative. Hoess may make some mistakes, but his testimony is still read into the court as evidence where it coincides with other evidence. He confessed to mass executions and you can't wiggle your way out of that. Nice try holocaust denier. Your own pin-up boy said he did it.

Tsk tsk tsk, no big kisses from David for his Hoess pin-up boy poster tonight!
Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the
Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941? How about the 1,400,000 dead at
Majdanek? How about the 3,000,000 dead at Auschwitz? Do tell.
Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus



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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:39 am

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:
....

Nessie, are you being stupid for a reason?
Obviously, people forget things all the time. However, there are certain things
that you don't forget...like the year you graduated from High school.
.......


You present that as a guaranteed fact. Yet go to a court and see how people fluff or have to think about even the simplest of questions like, how old are you?

Hello Nessie
You ignore the fact that Hoess did NOT fluff anything except those matters relating to theclaimed extermination. Seriously, how could he have gotten the YEAR wrong?
But let's put Hoess the goofy witness aside for the moment because the wacky testimony of Hoess needs to looked at in the context of the whole operation of the Nuremberg Tribunal.
Step back for a second and think about the actions of the Prosecution team.
It is obvious and unargued now that Hoess was very wrong in his "summer of 1941"
meeting with Himmler.
Do you think that the Prosecution team didn't know it?
The prosecution team had spent a huge amount of time trying to figure out
the nature of the "crime." ie. when and where it happened.
They already had the train records.
They had already questioned all the other top Nazis,
They already had all the records of the camps. Right?
All this evidence clearly shows that the "Order" had not been given in
June 1941. It also showed that 3,000,000 had NOT been killed at Auschwitz.

The Prosecution team must have been aware of the vast amount of evidence
which proved Hoess wrong.

In fact all the defendants MUST have known Hoess was wrong too. Correct?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:51 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:Yes there is ample evidence, not from cranks like Berg or Gerdes or Rudolf or Mattogno however where I think you get your ideas from and from White Nazi nutcases . Perhaps you get some of them from those guys or from people like Berty 48.

But from whichever trash bin you fish them out of I think it is your problem.

Denierbud makes a good presentation that it would have been impossible
to gas 3,000 people in Leichenkeller 1 Krema 2

Darren, you keep claiming you know of "ample evidence" to the refute him.

So far all you have done is evade the question and smear
people who express contrary views as "cranks" and "nutcases."

So, to be clear, what evidence do you have that it is possible to gas
3,000 people in an underground room?

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David is gay?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:53 am

David wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: No David. The judges knew that Hoess's memory was flawed. That's why Dr Kautffmann asked the question. But you already knew that....... Hans has simply noted the Hoess got figures and dates wrong in his confession.
David the holocaust denier wrote:Matt- Of course the judges knew that Hoess testimony was flawed...pretty obvious since the figures he gave varied by 1,500,000!! That is the point!
Wrong again. Court evidence is corroborative. Hoess may make some mistakes, but his testimony is still read into the court as evidence where it coincides with other evidence. He confessed to mass executions and you can't wiggle your way out of that. Nice try holocaust denier. Your own pin-up boy said he did it.

Tsk tsk tsk, no big kisses from David for his Hoess pin-up boy poster tonight!
So David, you, again, went through the effort of changing my font to pink. I really really hope you have both hands on the keyboard when you read my posts. What is going on here? Do you sort of get aroused when you read my words and get all dreamy about me or is it the photos of young boys in tight fitting Nazi uniform,around your basement, exciting you when you when posting?

I am thrilled that you make such an effort for me but can't get your format right for any of your other responses to other people. I assume you "blow your load" changing my font to pink and then share a cigarette with your hand when responding to others. Is this about right? I just don't date gay holocaust deniers. Sorry mate.

Better luck with the German rent boys.
:D

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:16 am

David the holocaust denier wrote: Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941?
The start of the Holocaust is often given as June 1941. Almost immediately after the start of the German invasion of the Soviet Union mobile death squads started to operate in the areas occupied by German army.
Any other questions? Would you like me to give you the date that Germany invaded Russia?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:56 pm

David, here's a tip. Cranks and nutcases is pretty much what you all are, there is no point in fighting against it. There is no smear involved, for it is the truth. Your own oddly obsessive behaviour here as "David" is a case in point. Now I'm not playing stupid numbers games with you.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:10 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:David, here's a tip. Cranks and nutcases is pretty much what you all are, there is no point in fighting against it. There is no smear involved, for it is the truth. Your own oddly obsessive behaviour here as "David" is a case in point. Now I'm not playing stupid numbers games with you.
So you are simply lying that you had "evidence" that it was possible to gas
3,000 in an underground room.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:55 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:David, here's a tip. Cranks and nutcases is pretty much what you all are, there is no point in fighting against it. There is no smear involved, for it is the truth. Your own oddly obsessive behaviour here as "David" is a case in point. Now I'm not playing stupid numbers games with you.
Don't worry about David. He's senile.

I try to push any holocaust deniers that post here to the JREF's anti holocaust denial thread. There are a couple of university historians there and other members who make short work of holocaust denial rubbish. David can't post there as the senior holocaust deniers can't stand him because he makes up stuff and then goes nutty and makes senior holocaust deniers look dumber than they already are. Even on the JREF sub forum, there have only been two new holocaust deniers in the last year and sometimes there are no posts for a week. It's a dead cult that took money, to spread Iranian propaganda, from Ahmadinejad in 2006.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:12 pm

David wrote:....... Correct?
No. Way too much conjecture and not where near enough evidence.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:17 pm

David wrote:..... Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the
Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941? How about the 1,400,000 dead at
Majdanek? How about the 3,000,000 dead at Auschwitz? Do tell.
Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus


.....
Corroboration comes with Hitler being personally responsible for granting exemptions of certain Jews and mixed race

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

Why did Hitler himself sign so many of the exemptions? So there is no signed Hitler order to kill Jews, but there are many not to.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:45 pm

berty48 wrote:I am not sure why anyone bothers to debate David and his silly slobber about Hoess's veracity. No one needs to worry about Hoess's figures or dates because vast numbers of Nazis who worked at these death camps all corroborated the basic narrative with no exceptions. Furthermore, in the past 70 years, no descendant, spouse or family member of any of these perpetrators has ever taken issue with the narrative, no surviving Nazi has ever written a deathbed memoir taking issue with the narrative, and it is crystal clear that the network of individuals having knowledge of the insider details of the Nazi estermination machine must number in the tens of thousands. Why would Judge Konrad Morgan have testified at Nuremberg to having heard the intimate details of the AR camps from the AR CEO, Christian Wirth? Morgan also testified to seeing the wealth stolen from the AR victims and to witnessing the extermination process at Auschwitz.

Fools like David sometimes cite Morgan's SS investigations as supporting their b*llsh*t notions.

Do any of these cranks really argue that not one single SS witness ever told his second cousin or a member of his bowling team that he wished to come clean? "Hey, dude, I worked at Belzec for the whole time of its operation and I know for a fact that there was NO gas chambers there."

The idea that huge numbers of people, first hand, second hand, hearsay, all agreed, with NO exceptions, that these places operated exactly as we have been told, should tell anyone with a nominal set of wits that the Holocaust narrative, in its basic structure cannot be reasonably disputed.

The fact that Gustav Munsberger lived with his son for years, and that his son was absolutely convinced that his father drove Jews into gas chambers with a whip, should tell a nominally brain-endowed thinker that there can be no doubt that Gustav Munsberger did exactly what prosecutors said he did. If Munsberger's son had doubts, he would have been on the phone to Faurisson asking for help. Can anyone with an IQ in even double digits believe that Gustav Munsberger, charged with beating women and children into gas chambers on a daily basis, would have allowed his son to believe this over the years of sharing the same roof, if there were no gas chambers at Treblinka?

The unanimous agreement of those exposed to these acts and perpetrators makes David's slobber into contempable hate speech. David is either vicious or stupid, and should be ignored. One is not going to reason with this fool. He'll die first.
If the statute of limitatations for German war crimes had been allowed to expire on December 31, 1979 and it was not illegal to minimize the crimes of Nazi Germany in the countries where most European WW2 veterans have resided, the implications you read into the fact that no former Nazi has ever denied the crimes of the Nazis might be a good point. Alas, the current legal environment makes it exceedingly unlikely that any former Nazi would be willing to speak out against the status quo. Look at what happened to Staglich and Christopherson when they tried. You're making an argument akin to a man who duct tapes a woman's mouth shut before raping her and uses the fact then she did not once say "stop" as his defense.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:43 pm

If I could gather together any worries about David they might be about his continuing to post crazy rubbish that has been fished out of the dustbin of failed thought known as, "Holocaust Revisionism."

If I could be bothered with concerning myself with an aging sixty something Nazi that is. Presumably he has been in hospital and had a hip operation or gall bladder out or something for he has been absent from Skeptic denying for a few months now.

But I do have a few points before I leave him. Many people, nice people I imagine, have given him some sound and friendly and entirely consistent advice to recognise his denial as madness. I know full well that such frank observations like "you are a crank" trigger defensive adverse reactions in our ,erm, "chimps" - I believe is the word amongst the cognoscenti. But they are still cranks for that no matter how they object. By the fact that they are bugged by this crankery. Attention-seeking thoughts about there not being a Holocaust seem to bubble up within them as a matter of course and force them out onto the Internet to post their crazy ideas. This can of course (as you have said) in some cases with the more dishonest of them lead to having to resort to lying upon message boards to win anything Matthew. I'm not surprised that you mention this shameful behaviour in connection with the resident denier, "David."

Behaving like the obnoxious human equivalent of a scratched record or of a drunken pest you might wish to avoid in the street is about the level I have come to expect from some revisionists. If you think of the vomit reflex we all have when confronted with rotten stinking fish say and how our bodies react if the cadaver of a putrescent dead mammal is shoved under our noses, you won't be too far off my feelings on the matter of teh dead dog that is Holocaust denial. With very few exceptions...What more though than this bizarre repetitive nonsense can be expected from presumably low horizon obsessive Internet zeroes with their lonely dreams of Adolf Hitler? When attention hinges upon whether you can argue with someone satisfactorily and seriously about

Can 3,000 people be gassed in a chamber.

How about 300?

30?

3?

Something must be wrong with the motivation somewhere, Now "David," it is quite tedious as a creative human being for me to communicate with you about this. I regret initiating it now for whatever I write will make no difference whatsoever to your unshakable belief. With very few exceptions again, it has become my unhappy experience to learn that Holocaust denial is just an unfunny long winded peculiar Internet joke. It really belongs in the future museum of aberrant philosophies. You mentioned University historians Matthew though and yes that is exactly how it should be. These threads should really be about the books that deniers have read and have ordered and eagerly wish to read, not about denierbud though. Actually lets get real here, what am I saying?!??? Lol, it should be about the books that deniers haven't read. And never will read or even glance at in fact. It strikes me as unfair. Serious students of History who engage with deniers all have to read their books. It doesn't necessarily follow that any denier will properly read any of ours though and yet still they pontificate that there was no Holocaust.

Why bother? Debating with them can never ascend above the level of gaschambers and mass graves anyway. For that is all they are I seriously believe capable of discussing. Oh noes, we also have Elie Wiesel and diesel. They like those topics. I have seen that the day to day basic things one does in History such as corroborating and carrying out proper pain-staking research have never been a denier strong suit though. If you do not accept this as a fact, then you just take a look at what people who do know have said about Carlo Mattogno's shoddy writings! His peers who have access to things he doesn't even know exist and yet he claims the authority. And worst of all he is supposed to be the best denial has?!?

I would be ashamed if I was him.

Watching deniers argue with another is of course about the most sport you can have with them and this time wasting scene. At least I think it is Though winding them up by pretending to be a denier yourself - which I have heard some people do - is quite good too.

We also have the treat of watching them consistently display their howling utter ignorance of History. I will say that the level of panic that ensued at codoh forum when the deniers realised that denierbud's server was down and not serving out free denier crack or "videos" was hilarious. It is fair to say that the contents of these, "master-works" have been exhaustively debunked elsewhere. Why should any one bother to rehash these solid refutations with people who are for the most part deeply deluded about History? To most people (who know anything about it really and who aren't lobotomised) denierbud has been satisfactorily dealt with. A few years ago now I believe.

Bud himself recently said that he was leaving Holocaust denial because there was "no money in it." LOL. In that case the codoh members should just put their faith money into his bank and fund his belief game for him. After all, they have valued his work as somehow worthy. It is not, its only worth is as an exhibit in the future museum of aberrant thought. There is not any other value to be ascribed to it. Though deniers for some peculiar reason never seem to grasp this fact. Each to their own. Some at codoh seemed upset and panicky when they found out that denierbud's website was down. In my opinion it is a source of trashy denier propaganda so I couldn't care less. In order to rectify this hole in the Interweb though the doh coterie of codoh offered to share denierbud's downloaded treasured lovingly saved to disk, thumb drive and DVD erm, AMONGST THEMSELVES! I really had a good facepalm.

What an unrecoverable mess denial is in!

Goodbye David
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:03 am

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:..... Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the
Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941? How about the 1,400,000 dead at
Majdanek? How about the 3,000,000 dead at Auschwitz? Do tell.
Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus


.....
Corroboration comes with Hitler being personally responsible for granting exemptions of certain Jews and mixed race

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

Why did Hitler himself sign so many of the exemptions? So there is no signed Hitler order to kill Jews, but there are many not to.
Nessie, you really are a goofball.
You are conflating the huge number of exceptions to the Nuremberg laws on citizenship with some weird fantastic "order Not to Kill"
Proves just the opposite of what wacky Believers preach.


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:11 am

Darren Wilshak wrote: [snip div]
When attention hinges upon whether you can argue with someone satisfactorily and seriously about

Can 3,000 people be gassed in a chamber.
Of course it does. That was the point of Denier's very good video; It would have been impossible in Krema II.
You lied when you claimed"it has been repeatedly demonstrated" etc, etc.
Your ugly tale is impossible.
You lie about have "evidence" and slide into hysterical personal attacks.







Something must be wrong with the motivation somewhere, Now "David," it is quite tedious as a creative human being for me to communicate with you about this. I regret initiating it now for whatever I write will make no difference whatsoever to your unshakable belief. With very few exceptions again, it has become my unhappy experience to learn that Holocaust denial is just an unfunny long winded peculiar Internet joke. It really belongs in the future museum of aberrant philosophies. You mentioned University historians Matthew though and yes that is exactly how it should be. These threads should really be about the books that deniers have read and have ordered and eagerly wish to read, not about denierbud though. Actually lets get real here, what am I saying?!??? Lol, it should be about the books that deniers haven't read. And never will read or even glance at in fact. It strikes me as unfair. Serious students of History who engage with deniers all have to read their books. It doesn't necessarily follow that any denier will properly read any of ours though and yet still they pontificate that there was no Holocaust.

Why bother? Debating with them can never ascend above the level of gaschambers and mass graves anyway. For that is all they are I seriously believe capable of discussing. Oh noes, we also have Elie Wiesel and diesel. They like those topics. I have seen that the day to day basic things one does in History such as corroborating and carrying out proper pain-staking research have never been a denier strong suit though. If you do not accept this as a fact, then you just take a look at what people who do know have said about Carlo Mattogno's shoddy writings! His peers who have access to things he doesn't even know exist and yet he claims the authority. And worst of all he is supposed to be the best denial has?!?

I would be ashamed if I was him.

Watching deniers argue with another is of course about the most sport you can have with them and this time wasting scene. At least I think it is Though winding them up by pretending to be a denier yourself - which I have heard some people do - is quite good too.

We also have the treat of watching them consistently display their howling utter ignorance of History. I will say that the level of panic that ensued at codoh forum when the deniers realised that denierbud's server was down and not serving out free denier crack or "videos" was hilarious. It is fair to say that the contents of these, "master-works" have been exhaustively debunked elsewhere. Why should any one bother to rehash these solid refutations with people who are for the most part deeply deluded about History? To most people (who know anything about it really and who aren't lobotomised) denierbud has been satisfactorily dealt with. A few years ago now I believe.

Bud himself recently said that he was leaving Holocaust denial because there was "no money in it." LOL. In that case the codoh members should just put their faith money into his bank and fund his belief game for him. After all, they have valued his work as somehow worthy. It is not, its only worth is as an exhibit in the future museum of aberrant thought. There is not any other value to be ascribed to it. Though deniers for some peculiar reason never seem to grasp this fact. Each to their own. Some at codoh seemed upset and panicky when they found out that denierbud's website was down. In my opinion it is a source of trashy denier propaganda so I couldn't care less. In order to rectify this hole in the Interweb though the doh coterie of codoh offered to share denierbud's downloaded treasured lovingly saved to disk, thumb drive and DVD erm, AMONGST THEMSELVES! I really had a good facepalm.

What an unrecoverable mess denial is in!

Goodbye David

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:04 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the holocaust denier wrote: Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941?
The start of the Holocaust is often given as June 1941. Almost immediately after the start of the German invasion of the Soviet Union mobile death squads started to operate in the areas occupied by German army.
Any other questions? Would you like me to give you the date that Germany invaded Russia?
You are squirming, Matt. The keystone claim for Holocaust
Belief is that there was a unified program of mass murder of all Jews pursuant to a
Order from Hitler. The Nuremberg date of June, or Summer 1941 is now admitted by all but Believer fanatics to have been very wrong.

"Often given" doesn't cut it as corroborating evidence.
You and Darren have something in common...you both lie about
having "evidence" to support your ugly theories.


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David the gay holocaust denier

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:05 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the holocaust denier wrote: Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941?
The start of the Holocaust is often given as June 1941. Almost immediately after the start of the German invasion of the Soviet Union mobile death squads started to operate in the areas occupied by German army.
Any other questions? Would you like me to give you the date that Germany invaded Russia?
David the gay holocaust denier wrote:You are squirming, Matt.
I see you are still getting very excited and spending even more time changing my font into pink. I know the KKK asked you to leave after you started wearing a pink pointy KKK outfit and asking young boys to accompany you into the bushes.......but really David......I just don't date gay holocaust deniers. Sorry mate. Better luck with Bradley's hand!

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:17 am

David the holocaust denier wrote:You are squirming, Matt. The keystone claim for Holocaust Belief is that there was a unified program of mass murder of all Jews pursuant to a Order from Hitler. The Nuremberg date of June, or Summer 1941.
No my little sad holocaust denier. The keystone claim for the holocaust is the overwhelming evidence, the eyewitness, the confessions by German COs, German documents, archaeological evidence, the camps, the photos, the remaining human ash, the missing Jews, Hitlers & Himmler's own words and so on and so on.

You are just a lonely little man, on his last legs trying to justify his life wasted supporting a cult that no longer exists. You will pass away unnoticed and in ten years a couple of research students will read your posts on a wayback machine and think "What a sicko!". Those will be the last words anyone says in connection to your insignificant life. Is that about right?



(edited to fix typo)
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:20 am

Sorry "David" but it is totally impossible for me to take yet another aging Neo Nazi Internet crank seriously... I can't be bothered with your moronic defeated assertions and sweeping generalisations.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by angawawa » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:34 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:Sorry "David" but it is totally impossible for me to take yet another aging Neo Nazi Internet crank seriously... I can't be bothered with your moronic defeated assertions and sweeping generalisations.
C'mon, Darren, let's leave together. That vomit reflex you were talking about has kicked in, and I wouldn't want to get puke on Davids lovely pink letters.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:07 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote:
David wrote:..... Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the
Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941? How about the 1,400,000 dead at
Majdanek? How about the 3,000,000 dead at Auschwitz? Do tell.
Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus


.....
Corroboration comes with Hitler being personally responsible for granting exemptions of certain Jews and mixed race

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

Why did Hitler himself sign so many of the exemptions? So there is no signed Hitler order to kill Jews, but there are many not to.
Nessie, you really are a goofball.
You are conflating the huge number of exceptions to the Nuremberg laws on citizenship with some weird fantastic "order Not to Kill"
Proves just the opposite of what wacky Believers preach.

Why was Hitler's approval needed for exemptions? Answer the question please.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:42 pm

Well it might be amusing to see "David" try and debate Nazi policy for the umpteenth time but as the guy clearly doesn't have properly a clue about that either...

I'll tell you now Nessie, if he does, he only knows to the extent of using it to lie and trot out stupid attention-seeking arguments in the hope to trip you up so that he can fanny about whitewashing his imaginary heroes. I was reading Saul Friedlander today.

Friedlander "David", not watching a gong-show level losers video.

I'm sure it's been beaten because as far as I'm concerned anything denierbud said about the Holocaust was a fantastical load of Revisionist crap.

Conclusion: only one.

You've been had "David."

Big Time.

By Nazis.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:14 pm

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:
Nessie wrote:
David wrote:..... Oh? So there was other evidence that corroborated the
Hitler gave the mysterious "Order" in June 1941? How about the 1,400,000 dead at
Majdanek? How about the 3,000,000 dead at Auschwitz? Do tell.
Falsum in uno, falsum in omnibus


.....
Corroboration comes with Hitler being personally responsible for granting exemptions of certain Jews and mixed race

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

Why did Hitler himself sign so many of the exemptions? So there is no signed Hitler order to kill Jews, but there are many not to.
Nessie, you really are a goofball.
You are conflating the huge number of exceptions to the Nuremberg laws on citizenship with some weird fantastic "order Not to Kill"
Proves just the opposite of what wacky Believers preach.

Why was Hitler's approval needed for exemptions? Answer the question please.
The Nuremberg laws on Citizenship classified someone with 3 Jewish grandparents
as Jewish as a matter of law. A "loop hole" was granted allowing an administrative
ruling. It was, actually, as if David Cameron could hand out citizenship
to illegal immigrants in England.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:27 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:Well it might be amusing to see "David" try and debate Nazi policy for the umpteenth time but as the guy clearly doesn't have properly a clue about that either...

I'll tell you now Nessie, if he does, he only knows to the extent of using it to lie and trot out stupid attention-seeking arguments in the hope to trip you up so that he can fanny about whitewashing his imaginary heroes. I was reading Saul Friedlander today.

Friedlander "David", not watching a gong-show level losers video.

I'm sure it's been beaten because as far as I'm concerned anything denierbud said about the Holocaust was a fantastical load of Revisionist crap.

Conclusion: only one.

You've been had "David."

Big Time.

By Nazis.
Darren, The one(s) who have been had are the ones who still believe that 3,000 people at a time could have been killed in a small underground room
at Krema II. Seems pretty clearly IMPOSSIBLE to me. Pressac also admits this
but posits that "something" must have been done to make it possible. But the records
show that nothing was done.

So, that story we are told that 3,000 people were gassed in Leichenkeller 1 of
Krema II is, like tales of witches, devils, flying pigs, impossible.

Lying that you have "evidence" that it is possible doesn't change anything.

It is pretty simple.

You just really really want to believe.