denierbud auschwitz

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Nessie
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:45 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:......


People who say they saw homicidal gassings taking place or who say they participated in them are lying. We know witnessing a homicidal gassing is impossible because homicidal gassings didn't happen.

.....
Interesting hypothesis. So you say the Holocaust was a massive conspiracy?
I don't say the Holocaust is a massive conspiracy.
Who organised it?

How did they do it?

Evidence your answers please.
I don't know. You are the one who said it was a conspiracy. I guess it would work the same way the conspiracy to remove the taint of genocide from National Socialism so Nazism can take over again and finish the job is suppose to work. Nizkor likes that one. Why don't you ask them?
So you hope others will think that the whole Holocaust, all the witnesses, the documents, the physical evidence, just happened without an actual Holocaust happening at the same time?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:49 am

David wrote:
....

The claim of an amazing conspiracy is an integral part of Holocaust Belief.
Nice twist. For the Holocaust not to have taken place would need a conspiracy. Someone has to arrange all the evidence to have been planted to make people believe there was a Holocaust.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:18 pm

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:......


People who say they saw homicidal gassings taking place or who say they participated in them are lying. We know witnessing a homicidal gassing is impossible because homicidal gassings didn't happen.

.....
Interesting hypothesis. So you say the Holocaust was a massive conspiracy?
I don't say the Holocaust is a massive conspiracy.
Who organised it?

How did they do it?

Evidence your answers please.
I don't know. You are the one who said it was a conspiracy. I guess it would work the same way the conspiracy to remove the taint of genocide from National Socialism so Nazism can take over again and finish the job is suppose to work. Nizkor likes that one. Why don't you ask them?
So you hope others will think that the whole Holocaust, all the witnesses, the documents, the physical evidence, just happened without an actual Holocaust happening at the same time?
I hope others will dig just below the surface and find out that the whole Holocaust is the witnesses and that there isn't clear unequivocal documentary and no physical evidence and put the actual Holocaust in it's proper perspective. I hope but I certainly don't expect that to happen.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:04 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote: I hope others will dig just below the surface
But Mary darling....you didn't even know the graves were left open at Treblinka until I told you last week...

Mary Q Contrary wrote:and find out that the whole Holocaust is the witnesses
But Mary my cuddly little denier, you can't explain why Jewish witnesses and SS personnel eyewitness' confirm the holocaust with the same story yet holocaust deniers can't find one German who says otherwise. Even the Russians and Polish investigators saw the same thing and agree with the Jewish and German eye witnesses. Is this because you haven't actually read any of their statements?

Mary Q Contrary wrote: and that there isn't clear unequivocal documentary
The Hofle Telegram, Zabeki's train records for Treblinka, letters between SS personnel concerning execution, Topf invoices for repairing gas chambers, and so on and so on. But you haven't read these documents have you?

Mary Q Contrary wrote:and no physical evidence and put the actual Holocaust in it's proper perspective.
Justice Lukaszkiewicz's physical evidence of 2 hectares of human ash at Treblinka, Professor Andrzej Kola's excavation of Belzec, and so on..... you simply haven't read them as you are a holocaust denier.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:55 am

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:
....

The claim of an amazing conspiracy is an integral part of Holocaust Belief.
Nice twist. For the Holocaust not to have taken place would need a conspiracy. Someone has to arrange all the evidence to have been planted to make people believe there was a Holocaust.
Of course Holocaust Belief relies on a strange German conspiracy
of code words, orders too horrible to be put in writing, etc. etc.

On the other hand, general odd delusions are common in humanity.
How many people have confessed to being a witch?
How many people believed that they saw some saint?
How many wise doctors believed that bleeding a patient was "medicine?'

Yes, there was a general propaganda push to make the Germans into the
super-evil people. As is obvious, real tragedies were exaggerated with a
few black propaganda thrown in. But much of the propaganda BS stays because
it is a popular story. It is also a crime to challenge it.


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:41 am

David the half-wit holocast denier wrote:Of course Holocaust Belief relies on a strange German conspiracy of code words, orders too horrible to be put in writing, etc. etc.
WRONG It is holocaust deniers who believe in conspiracies.

So David explain to all of us how Jewish eyewitnesses and SS personnel eyewitnesses all came up with the same eye witness accounts in courts? Do you think they had a cup of tea together to get their stories right? Do you think Winston Churchill briefed everyone of them in German, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian to give the same stories? Please explain how you holocaust deniers explain this?

Then...please tell us your fabulous story of Hoess being beaten so badly to tell Winston Churchill's evil holocaust story..... and yet at the IMT there is not a mark on his face? This is an anti German conspiracy right? You are the person who posted it!

And to cap it off, explain why in 70 years holocaust deniers cannot find one SS member who says "The holocaust never happened". Did Winston Churchill beat them senseless from 1945 to the 1970's to tell fibs so they would go to gaol for longer?

Holocaust deniers are funny because they are mad as hatters


Hoess the commanding officer of Auschwitz agrees that holocaust occured
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:50 pm

So blood letting using leeches, the persecution of wise women and or a belief in saints are apparently equivalent to the Holocaust now according to you?

I would write "nice try" but it isn't.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:26 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
.....


I hope others will dig just below the surface and find out that the whole Holocaust is the witnesses and that there isn't clear unequivocal documentary and no physical evidence and put the actual Holocaust in it's proper perspective. I hope but I certainly don't expect that to happen.
Hofle Telegramme, Wannsee Protocol, Hitlers exemption orders for Jews and mischlings. That just scratches the surface for documentary evidence. Auschwitz Birkenau along deals with the physical evidence.

Your misuse of evidence is so blatant I am embarrassed for you.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:25 am

Nessie wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote:
.....


I hope others will dig just below the surface and find out that the whole Holocaust is the witnesses and that there isn't clear unequivocal documentary and no physical evidence and put the actual Holocaust in it's proper perspective. I hope but I certainly don't expect that to happen.
Hofle Telegramme, Wannsee Protocol, Hitlers exemption orders for Jews and mischlings. That just scratches the surface for documentary evidence. Auschwitz Birkenau along deals with the physical evidence.

Your misuse of evidence is so blatant I am embarrassed for you.
Ah yes, those incriminating criminal traces that somehow slipped through the censors of the top secret Nazi conspiracy to kill all the Jews: Hoefle and Wannsee. Look up the words "clear" and "unequivocal" in the dictionary and then tell me how Hoefle and Wannsee are examples of clear and unequivocal exterminationist talk. I will concede that these two documents are just about as clear and unequivocal and you're going to get when it comes to exposing the Top Secret Great Nazi Holocaust Conspiracy. But what do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring to decipher their "true" meaning? And what are these Hitler exemption orders of which you speak? Is this a sophomoric attempt at explaining how millions of Jews survived the greatest genocide in history?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:23 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: But what do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language
The Hofle Telegram is an internal SS document that states that 713,555 people were sent to Treblinka extermination camp before 30Dec1942. Although discovered in 2000 it collaborated the evidence of train record documents maintained by Treblinka's station master Franciszek Zabecki supplied to court. This collaborated with the physical evidence of a single train line to Treblinka and Zabeki's evidence " German railway workers said it was going to be an extermination camp" and "Twenty wagons were uncoupled from the train, and a shunting engine began to push them along the spur-line into the camp. A short while later it returned empty. This procedure was repeated twice more, until all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers'. Would you like to view the Treblinka train records that you said didn't exist?

The Hofle telegram in 2000 collaborated other evidence from 1946 & 1947 as to the number of Jews executed at Treblinka. Justice Lukaszkiewicz estimated 800,000 execution from his archaeological forensic excavation of Treblinka in 1946 as. Polish historian Rachel Auerbach puts it at 1,074,000 after her forensic inspection. Their figure were confirmed by the Hofle telegram.

I saw you "ran away" when I quoted Caroline Colls identifying the burial pits at Treblinka in 2011. Do all holocaust deniers "run away" from Caroline Colls? Was it only Richard Krege who changed his name and went into hiding after been caught lying?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Is this a sophomoric attempt at explaining how millions of Jews survived the greatest genocide in history?
Germany lost the war. Do you remember that? The Russian army stopped Hitler executing jews by winning the war. Did you forget this small event?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:14 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: But what do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language
The Hofle Telegram is an internal SS document that states that 713,555 people were sent to Treblinka extermination camp before 30Dec1942. Although discovered in 2000 it collaborated the evidence of train record documents maintained by Treblinka's station master Franciszek Zabecki supplied to court. This collaborated with the physical evidence of a single train line to Treblinka and Zabeki's evidence " German railway workers said it was going to be an extermination camp" and "Twenty wagons were uncoupled from the train, and a shunting engine began to push them along the spur-line into the camp. A short while later it returned empty. This procedure was repeated twice more, until all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again. Empty they returned to Warsaw for more 'settlers'. Would you like to view the Treblinka train records that you said didn't exist?

The Hofle telegram in 2000 collaborated other evidence from 1946 & 1947 as to the number of Jews executed at Treblinka. Justice Lukaszkiewicz estimated 800,000 execution from his archaeological forensic excavation of Treblinka in 1946 as. Polish historian Rachel Auerbach puts it at 1,074,000 after her forensic inspection. Their figure were confirmed by the Hofle telegram.

I saw you "ran away" when I quoted Caroline Colls identifying the burial pits at Treblinka in 2011. Do all holocaust deniers "run away" from Caroline Colls? Was it only Richard Krege who changed his name and went into hiding after been caught lying?
I think the word is 'corroborated.' Not 'collaborated.' When they were passing out brains did you think they said cattle cars full of urine drinking Kol Nidre reciting wailing crying Jews and say "sounds like a gas but I think I'll pass"? Most homophobic bigots do the same thing.

So the Hoefle telegram corroborates train records. That is, that X number of people went somewhere on a train. Let me rephrase my original question: What do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring?

I especially like how you say that Justice Lukaszkiewicz estimated 800,000 and Polish historian Rachel Auerbach puts it at 1,074,000 after her forensic inspection which is confirmed by the Hofle telegram. What's 274,000 dead Jews one way or another anyway?

I didn't run away from Caroline Suckmy-Cox. I pointed out that you said you know what her findings are in her report that she hasn't published yet. How that is, I don't know but I assume you don't really know and are simply lying. Maybe you know from listening to that stupid BBC radio program where the old-Jew-voice narrator talks about embers from a fire flying into an open grave pit at Treblinka which then burst into flames. I think it was the blood that caught fire. I laughed so hard I had to change my underwear.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:09 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: So the Hoefle (Hofle) telegram corroborates train records. That is, that X number of people went somewhere on a train.
No Mary darling. It is a telegram from SS Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle to Obersturmbannführer Franz Heim and Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann confirming the camp arrivals at Treblinka under Aktion Reinhardt. The train records kept by the Treblinka station master confirm that these people arrived. The Hofle telegram doesn't mention trains and you obviously haven't read it.

Would you like to read Adolf Eichmann's confession to mass murder? Did you forget that he also confessed?
Mary Q Contrary wrote: Let me rephrase my original question: What do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring?
There are no code words in the Hofle telegram as it was sent by Enigma. You haven't read it remember! You are making this up as you go.

What you missed is the testimony by Zabeki, the station master of Treblinka that I directly quoted. Do you understand why small numbers of carriages were separated from the Jewish transports and shunted into Treblinka? Because that was the capacity of the "new" gas chambers.

http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... bcad14.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mary Q Contrary wrote: I especially like how you say that Justice Lukaszkiewicz estimated 800,000 and Polish historian Rachel Auerbach puts it at 1,074,000 after her forensic inspection which is confirmed by the Hofle telegram. What's 274,000 dead Jews one way or another anyway?
The Polish investigations had some documents as it was 1946 and they estimated the death toll based on forensic archaeology and some documents. The Germans kept proper records and exactly stated the death toll. Obviously you haven't read the Hofle telegram.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I didn't run away from Caroline Suckmy-Cox.
Yes you did Mary darling. Did Caroline Colls state she did GPR and electromagnetic scanning and discover the burial pits including 26 meters by 17 meters by a minimum of 4metres deep? Yes or No? (Don't be a little girl and answer the question).

I enjoyed very much your comment about me supplying Colls photo from a radio program. How do you download photos from a radio program?

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:27 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the half-wit holocast denier wrote:Of course Holocaust Belief relies on a strange German conspiracy of code words, orders too horrible to be put in writing, etc. etc.
WRONG It is holocaust deniers who believe in conspiracies.

So David explain to all of us how Jewish eyewitnesses and SS personnel eyewitnesses all came up with the same eye witness accounts in courts?

??? I am a Denier and you have your head up your A** about what
I believe. The Soviet Union and other victors took real tragedies and exaggerated
them, along with throwing in fake claims for propaganda purposes. Simple.
Your screaming is only a heehawing attempt to create a strawman.

As to your brazen stupidity that the "eye witnesses" all came up with the
same accounts in court. Bull sh*t.
The first 1942 tale was the propaganda tale that people were steamed to death.
This faked tale has all the details incorporated into later stories and was published as
the Black Book of Polish Jewry
http://xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then some people eye witnesses claimed people were "dieseled to death."
Now it is gasoline engine exhausted to death.
Parts of that stupid story were dropped, parts carried forward.
Witnesses claimed bodies were burned, or buried, or turned into tarmac road! (really)
The really sick tales claimed that fat from the crematorium was used to make
sausages...I bet you love that one, Matt.

Look at the date Hoess gives for the amazing mysterious "Hitler Order"
June 1941...a belief quietly slipped under the rug by Believers

Look at Majdanek...your consistent witnesses claimed how many dead?
1,500,000. And the correct number 78,000 (still a lot) but so much for your
eye witnesses consistency.

Some "eye witnesses" claim orchestras of young women played music at
Auschwitz. At the same time and the same place (other witnesses claim) starving
inmates dropped dead at their feet.

You are so full of Sh*t, Matt, it is astounding.

In the last few years, Believer liars and spin doctors have arranged some of the
various testimonies to conceal the amazing contradictions in the stories.

That is not so much a conspiracy as simple slimy dishonesty





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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:55 am

David the stawman holocaust denier wrote:The really sick tales claimed that fat from the crematorium was used to make sausages...I bet you love that one, Matt.
I've never heard this one before. Can you link me to a jewish witness who made this claim?..........No?..........So you just made it up per normal?

Gee David, you seem to be making up stories left right and centre for the last week. Are you losing that badly?

Go on, change my font to concentration camp pink.....you know you want to.....it's all you have left as a way of responding.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:05 am

David the quote changing holocaust dnier wrote:That is not so much a conspiracy as simple slimy dishonesty
You are insane. You just got busted faking a quote in the last 24 hours! You really are quite mad and senile.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:54 pm

In the words of someone or another, do we need to keep an eye on our chimps? Part 2.

I think this Mary Q character is another one of a dwindling nazi handful (around 600) who effortlessly scale the heights of denier tedium, Saying something is, "dieseled to death" is pretty facepalm. But we also get cliche in the package with his pathetic- mumbling about "decoder rings". As if that was something original to say. All it exposes is a shocking inability to understand psychology. Which he would no doubt think is all "Jewish," anyway.

In amongst his posts one of which I noticed actually contained an unpleasant sexist allusion to Caroline Sturdy Colls. The guy actually referred to her as, "Sux Cocks," or some such equally insulting phrase.

Well whatever he thinks about it, he will never come within one million miles (dragging his knuckles as he comes) of any University archaeological department. So he is condemned to enter his middle age in ten or so years time, still posting the same kindergarten level nonsense, which does not deserve answering.

All his "points," have been answered elsewhere.

Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:19 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
....

Ah yes, those incriminating criminal traces that somehow slipped through the censors of the top secret Nazi conspiracy to kill all the Jews: Hoefle and Wannsee. Look up the words "clear" and "unequivocal" in the dictionary and then tell me how Hoefle and Wannsee are examples of clear and unequivocal exterminationist talk. I will concede that these two documents are just about as clear and unequivocal and you're going to get when it comes to exposing the Top Secret Great Nazi Holocaust Conspiracy. But what do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring to decipher their "true" meaning? And what are these Hitler exemption orders of which you speak? Is this a sophomoric attempt at explaining how millions of Jews survived the greatest genocide in history?
Unlike others I say Wannsee was not coded, its meaning was clear. For example, emigration is being replaced with the Final Solution

"Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance. These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question. Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:"

and

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)"

So emigration is being replaced with death for an expected 11 million people. But mishlings were being granted exemptions, which is also detailed at Wannsee and in this study by a Professor Rigg

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"....as many as 150,000 men of part Jewish descent, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals, fought for Nazi Germany right to the bitter end.

Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

That is about 0.14% of those expected to be subject to the Final Solution. So whilst deniers crow about the lack of a Hitler Order, there are Hitler Orders to exempt. Why would it need Hitler to exempt someone from something that according to deniers did not exist?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mary Q Contrary wrote: So the Hoefle (Hofle) telegram corroborates train records. That is, that X number of people went somewhere on a train.
No Mary darling. It is a telegram from SS Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle to Obersturmbannführer Franz Heim and Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann confirming the camp arrivals at Treblinka under Aktion Reinhardt. The train records kept by the Treblinka station master confirm that these people arrived. The Hofle telegram doesn't mention trains and you obviously haven't read it.
OK, so the people sent somewhere on a train matches the number of people arriving by train. Let me rephrase my original question: What do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring?
Would you like to read Adolf Eichmann's confession to mass murder? Did you forget that he also confessed?
Eichmann confessed? Then it must be true. I thought he refused to say anything during his chat with the Israelis so they had to let him go due to lack of evidence. Maybe that was a different Nazi who refused to confess and was released from custody. They all look alike to me.
Mary Q Contrary wrote: Let me rephrase my original question: What do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring?
There are no code words in the Hofle telegram as it was sent by Enigma. You haven't read it remember! You are making this up as you go.


So communication regarding the extermination of the Jews didn't use coded language or euphemisms if it was encrypted with Enigma? That means that there must be a whole bunch of other documents that openly speak of extermination of the Jews just like the Hoefle telegram. What do some of those other documents say?

What you missed is the testimony by Zabeki, the station master of Treblinka that I directly quoted. Do you understand why small numbers of carriages were separated from the Jewish transports and shunted into Treblinka? Because that was the capacity of the "new" gas chambers.
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... bcad14.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mary Q Contrary wrote: I especially like how you say that Justice Lukaszkiewicz estimated 800,000 and Polish historian Rachel Auerbach puts it at 1,074,000 after her forensic inspection which is confirmed by the Hofle telegram. What's 274,000 dead Jews one way or another anyway?
The Polish investigations had some documents as it was 1946 and they estimated the death toll based on forensic archaeology and some documents. The Germans kept proper records and exactly stated the death toll. Obviously you haven't read the Hofle telegram.
Oh, one was an estimate and one was an exact count and both of them collaborate with the Hoefle telegram. You still said 800,000 and a million are the same number.

Mary Q Contrary wrote:I didn't run away from Caroline Suckmy-Cox.
Yes you did Mary darling. Did Caroline Colls state she did GPR and electromagnetic scanning and discover the burial pits including 26 meters by 17 meters by a minimum of 4metres deep? Yes or No? (Don't be a little girl and answer the question).
She discovered ONE large pit. Whoop dee do.
I enjoyed very much your comment about me supplying Colls photo from a radio program. How do you download photos from a radio program?
I said nothing about you finding a picture from a radio program. I said you pretended to know what was in a report that hasn't been published yet. R U really that retarded?
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:20 am

Nessie wrote:
Unlike others I say Wannsee was not coded, its meaning was clear. For example, emigration is being replaced with the Final Solution

"Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance. These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question. Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:"

So you admit that, as of the time of the 45 minute breakfast meeting,
emigration had been the only policy. Just what Revisionists say.
If you look at the figures, most Jews had already left Germany and Austria.
From a practical point of view, the "Jewish problem" in the Reich had been
resolved. There were very few Jews left and most were old.

And, we know from train records where Austrian Jews were sent.
Only a small percentage were sent to the alleged "extermination Center
of Auschwitz."

Now a possible policy of evacuation, ie. deportation was being discussed. So, what is sinister about that?

Since Ireland, England, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Sweden were included it seems that the whole brief discussion was highly speculative.
How many Jews were deported from Bulgaria? -0-
From Finland? 4
How many French/Jewish citizens were deported from France? less than 5%



and

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
Work on Roads? Care to tell us one place were columns of
Jews built roads?


The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)"

So emigration is being replaced with death for an expected 11 million people.


Ireland, England, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain were all included in the figures. No significant deportations of citizens of France, Bulgaria, Italy, Finland, Denmark occurred. No "columns built roads." Hitler had not approved the plan. Seems that the brief breakfast discussion did not establish
any protocols.




But mishlings were being granted exemptions, which is also detailed at Wannsee and in this study by a Professor Rigg

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"....as many as 150,000 men of part Jewish descent, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals, fought for Nazi Germany right to the bitter end.

Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

That is about 0.14% of those expected to be subject to the Final Solution. So whilst deniers crow about the lack of a Hitler Order, there are Hitler Orders to exempt. Why would it need Hitler to exempt someone from something that according to deniers did not exist?
No. The exemption related to German Citizenship laws.
Please go learn what you are talking about. And read the Wannsee minutes.
As of Jan. 20, 1942 there had been no approval by Hitler.


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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:23 am

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Eichmann confessed? Then it must be true. I thought he refused to say anything during his chat with the Israelis so they had to let him go due to lack of evidence.
No he sang like a bird for the Israelis. Obviously you are also unaware he sang for Life magazine before he went to Israel. ( You don't actually know who Adolf Eichmann is, do you?)
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=0U0 ... ne&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mary Q Contrary wrote: Let me rephrase my original question: What do these documents actually say without using the Secret Nazi Language Decoder Ring?
Matthew Ellard wrote:There are no code words in the Hofle telegram as it was sent by Enigma. You haven't read it remember! You are making this up as you go.
Mary Q Contrary wrote: So communication regarding the extermination of the Jews didn't use coded language or euphemisms if it was encrypted with Enigma? That means that there must be a whole bunch of other documents that openly speak of extermination of the Jews just like the Hoefle telegram. What do some of those other documents say?
That's right there are lots of other Enigma decrypts talking about the holocaust. I'm starting to realise that you don't know anything about the holocaust.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra#Holo ... telligence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matthew Ellard wrote: The Polish investigations had some documents as it was 1946 and they estimated the death toll based on forensic archaeology and some documents. The Germans kept proper records and exactly stated the death toll. Obviously you haven't read the Hofle telegram.
Mary Q Contrary wrote:Oh, one was an estimate and one was an exact count and both of them collaborate with the Hoefle telegram. You still said 800,000 and a million are the same number.
No. You seem to be confused by the word "estimate" and you failed to read the Holfe Telegram which only confirms victims sent to Treblinka up until 30Dec1942. You still haven't actually read the Hofle Telegram!
Mary Q Contrary wrote:She discovered ONE large pit. Whoop dee do.
No she discovered many large pits including five large pits behind the gas chamber. You didn't actually read what she said as you are a holocaust denier who knows nothing about the holocaust and refuses to read anything. In other words....an idiot.

Well.... are you and David having a contest who is more stupid? You are denying documents like the Hofle telegram that you haven't actually read! Are you two auditioning for a remake of "Dumb & Dumber"

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:37 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Unlike others I say Wannsee was not coded, its meaning was clear. For example, emigration is being replaced with the Final Solution

"Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East, provided that the Führer gives the appropriate approval in advance. These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question. Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:"

So you admit that, as of the time of the 45 minute breakfast meeting,
emigration had been the only policy. Just what Revisionists say.
If you look at the figures, most Jews had already left Germany and Austria.
From a practical point of view, the "Jewish problem" in the Reich had been
resolved. There were very few Jews left and most were old.

And, we know from train records where Austrian Jews were sent.
Only a small percentage were sent to the alleged "extermination Center
of Auschwitz."

Now a possible policy of evacuation, ie. deportation was being discussed. So, what is sinister about that?

Since Ireland, England, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Sweden were included it seems that the whole brief discussion was highly speculative.
How many Jews were deported from Bulgaria? -0-
From Finland? 4
How many French/Jewish citizens were deported from France? less than 5%



and

"Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
Work on Roads? Care to tell us one place were columns of
Jews built roads?


The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)"

So emigration is being replaced with death for an expected 11 million people.


Ireland, England, Spain, Turkey, Portugal, Sweden, Switzerland, Spain were all included in the figures. No significant deportations of citizens of France, Bulgaria, Italy, Finland, Denmark occurred. No "columns built roads." Hitler had not approved the plan. Seems that the brief breakfast discussion did not establish
any protocols.




But mishlings were being granted exemptions, which is also detailed at Wannsee and in this study by a Professor Rigg

http://www.cephas-library.com/israel/Ge ... Hitler.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"....as many as 150,000 men of part Jewish descent, including decorated veterans and high-ranking officers, even generals and admirals, fought for Nazi Germany right to the bitter end.

Almost all of these 150,000 men received special exemptions and declarations of being "true Germans", many of these orders being signed by Adolf Hitler himself, in a legal provision known as the Deutschblütigkeitserklärung (or literally, the Declaration of German Blood)."

That is about 0.14% of those expected to be subject to the Final Solution. So whilst deniers crow about the lack of a Hitler Order, there are Hitler Orders to exempt. Why would it need Hitler to exempt someone from something that according to deniers did not exist?
No. The exemption related to German Citizenship laws.
Please go learn what you are talking about. And read the Wannsee minutes.
As of Jan. 20, 1942 there had been no approval by Hitler.

Now you are coming up with a coded definition of what Wannsee was about. You also fail to notice that it was a plan which failed to go to plan as the Nazis lost the War.

Denmark sent very few Jews as most were allowed/assisted to escape. Poland lost huge numbers of its Jews. So we know some occupied countries were more cooperative than others.

I have no idea what roads were built by Jews, just that that was the plan, before they die.

The exemptions are about German citizenship laws and if Mischlings could be allowed to get citizenship. I don't know if you will ever grasp the point that Hitler's approval was needed for a German with part Jewish ancestorship to get German citizenship. That is all the way to the top for approval not to be deported and subject to the Final Solution.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:17 am

Nessie wrote: Now you are coming up with a coded definition of what Wannsee was about. You also fail to notice that it was a plan which failed to go to plan as the Nazis lost the War.
The memo contains clear facts, like emigration having been to
only policy and the fact that Hitler had not approved any change in that policy.

Any ideas about what "to do" with the Jews of England or Sweden etc. etc.
or who is to be considered Jewish were all entirely speculative.

Evacuation meant just that, NO CODE WORDS

Hindsight allows us to know that evacuation was not a universal policy.

However, I want to bring the matter back from all the Believer diversions; to the point of the thread. Denierbud made an excellent video about how Krema II was not
designed or built as a gas chamber. It is a particular but very important fact.
Believers have tap danced around it



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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:19 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:Evacuation meant just that, NO CODE WORDS
My cat knows more about the holocaust than David. ......read this....

Eichmann / Trial Jerusalem District Court / April 11, 1961 / Re Wansee

Presiding Judge: "Who spoke of this topic?"

Eichmann: "I no longer remember all the particulars today, Mr. President, but I know that the gentlemen sat around together and plotted together, and there they, in very direct words - not the words I had to use in the Protocol, but in very direct words - called things as they were, with no attempt to disguise them. I would be unable to remember these things if I did not know that, at the time, I said to myself: Look at Stuckart, who people always considered to be a very scrupulous and fastidious law and order man, and now his tone and all his formulations were very unlike the letter of the law. That's about the only thing that has really stayed in my memory".

Presiding judge: What did he say about this subject?

Eichmann: "In particular, Mr. President, I would like "...

Presiding judge: "Not in particular - in general"

Eichmann: "Murder and elimination and annihilation were discussed"

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Nessie » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:29 pm

David wrote:
......Denierbud made an excellent video about how Krema II was not
designed or built as a gas chamber. It is a particular but very important fact.



......
....which in no way rules out it being converted to a gas chamber. Indeed I could easily convert any room or a vehicle to a lethal gas chamber and so long as a room is secure, one where I could gas people against their will. That is an important fact deniers like to dance around.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Mary Q Contrary » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:55 am

Darren Wilshak wrote:In the words of someone or another, do we need to keep an eye on our chimps? Part 2.

I think this Mary Q character is another one of a dwindling nazi handful (around 600) who effortlessly scale the heights of denier tedium, Saying something is, "dieseled to death" is pretty facepalm. But we also get cliche in the package with his pathetic- mumbling about "decoder rings". As if that was something original to say. All it exposes is a shocking inability to understand psychology. Which he would no doubt think is all "Jewish," anyway.
How about explaining the psychology behind whatever it is that I don't understand?
In amongst his posts one of which I noticed actually contained an unpleasant sexist allusion to Caroline Sturdy Colls. The guy actually referred to her as, "Sux Cocks," or some such equally insulting phrase.

Well whatever he thinks about it, he will never come within one million miles (dragging his knuckles as he comes) of any University archaeological department. So he is condemned to enter his middle age in ten or so years time, still posting the same kindergarten level nonsense, which does not deserve answering.
I think you mean can't be answered.
All his "points," have been answered elsewhere.
I didn't make those points elsewhere. I made them here. If you are able to respond to them, you'll need to do it here or it will just look like you can't answer them.
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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:42 am

Darren Wilshak wrote: All it exposes is a shocking inability to understand psychology. Which he would no doubt think is all "Jewish," anyway.
Mary Q Contrary wrote: How about explaining the psychology behind whatever it is that I don't understand?
1) Dunning Kruger Effect
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A classical example. As a holocaust denier you haven't actually read stock standard holocaust evidence but you deny it based on a gut feeling. You did things like post West German statute of limitations that ended in the 70s while holocaust deniers were still being prosecuted today in Germany. Because you have a low I.Q. you never connected this obvious paradox. You gave us all a big laugh and you didn't understand what you did. As I said "low I.Q."

2) Confirmation bias
Confirmation bias is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Another classical example. As a holocaust denier you focus on tiny self perceived discrepancies in eyewitness reports and scream "there was no holocaust" but simultaneously ignore that every captured German perpetrator confessed and both Germans and their Jewish eyewitnesses say the same story confirming the holocaust. You haven't got the brains to even start wondering why all the Germans, Poles, Ukrainians and all the Jewish victim give the same story....so you only look for tiny bits of evidence that matches your confirmation bias.

Where this gets really funny is when we apply "cult" psychology standard to holocaust deniers. The cult actually died more than ten years ago. (Find a more recent book with new claims by a holocaust denier) but like a "flat earth" cult member you are still "holding up a candle" to prove to yourself you haven't wasted the last twenty years believing in a lie sold to you by "get rich by publishing handbooks for idiots" senior holocaust deniers.

Have you heard of Tammy & Jimmy Baker? They went to gaol for going on TV saying "We need to raise $500,000 for African refugees". Idiots would send in 2 million and the Bakers would send the $500,000 and pocket the rest. Bradley Smith raises money from stupid holocaust deniers to book adverts advertising "revisionism". He then goes and doesn't book an advert for $67 in a college newspaper and pockets the rest. How much money have you sent him?

Remember, it's senior holocaust denier who are conning the really stupid junior holocaust deniers. "David" made the mistake of posting internal holocaust propaganda here and then watched Frederick Berg's propaganda being destroyed.

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Re: denierbud auschwitz

Post by David » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: "David" made the mistake of posting internal holocaust propaganda here and then watched Frederick Berg's propaganda being destroyed.
Hello Matt- Faking quotes doesn't destroy Mr. Berg's accurate
statements based on rationality, science and a complete knowledge of the sick
twisted tales of purple bodies that you love and worship.

If you were normal, you would be thanking Mr. Berg.
Instead you hate him for shining the light of Science onto your sick world.