"Chelmno book released ..."

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Roberto Muehlenkamp
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"Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Roberto Muehlenkamp » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:05 am

... is the title of a thread on the "CODOH Revisionist Forum" that features a discussion between me and a "Revisionist" who calls himself "Toshiro", which took place following my comments about Mattogno's Chelmno book on the Holocaust Controversies blog site.

The discussion was initially conducted on two different forums because I'm banned from the CODOH forum, with "Toshiro" posting on CODOH and me posting on the now extinct RODOH forum. Eventually "Toshiro" accepted my invitation to RODOH and published a post there, to which I responded. After that our discussion was unfortunately interrupted by Yuku's deletion of the RODOH forum. The only record of my posts in this discussion currently available is in "Toshiro"'s CODOH responses to my RODOH posts, the last of which responses is in his post of Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:08 am.

Last month a "Revisionist" who calls himself "borjastick" opened a thread in which he claimed that a post of mine sent to the original CODOH forum in June 2001 (11 years ago!), reproduced in a November 2011 blog discussing CODOH censorship, was my "latest calculation" of possible coke consumption in the crematoria of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

"borjastick" obviously failed to notice that I was reproducing an argument made by defense witness Van Pelt's at the Irving-Lipstadt trial, which is based on the assumption that the coke consumption calculations in Jährling's memorandum of 17.03.1943 were made having in mind the capacity figures mentioned in the Auschwitz construction office's letter to the WVHA dated 28.06.1943.

It is hardly a given that both documents can be linked to each other in the manner done by Van Pelt, already because the former document was produced more than three months before the latter and at a time when none of the new Birkenau ovens had yet been commissioned. I said just that in a later RODOH post, which is now reproduced in the blog Reconstructing "A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis ..." (2) as post # 10 from the extinct RODOH forum's thread "A message to Jonnie "Hannover" Hargis ...". This post contains a calculation of what I consider the possible average coke consumption per corpse in the Auschwitz-Birkenau cremation ovens in the period between 15 March and 25 October 1943, in which 607 tons of coke are recorded as having been delivered to Auschwitz-Birkenau and 116,800 deportees are recorded as having been gassed in the Birkenau gas chambers and their bodies cremated. It was not necessarily the actual coke consumption per corpse because there were demonstrably also open-air cremations at AB in August 1943, i.e. not all the corpses of gassing victims were cremated in the camp's crematoria. However, my calculation demonstrates that it would have been possible to cremate 116,800 corpses in the aforementioned period in the crematoria alone, using the 607 tons of coke that are recorded as having been delivered to Auschwitz-Birkenau in the same period. "borjastick" is invited to read and comment my calculations.

In the CODOH discussion following "borjastick"'s OP, "Toshiro" linked to our discussion that was interrupted by the RODOH forum's deletion - or better, to the part thereof that took place on two different forums.

In the next post on the present thread, I shall continue the interrupted discussion by commenting "Toshiro"'s post of Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:08 am. A blog shall then be posted on HC inviting "Toshiro" to come over here and continue our discussion.

Roberto Muehlenkamp
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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Roberto Muehlenkamp » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:31 am

Toshiro wrote:Reply from Roberto:
Roberto wrote: Why should the water in the fat (which is not "the fat itself") behave differently than the other water?

I don't know. I'm going by MGK's and your model. Fat was left, but no % of water. That is wrong. Either that isn't fat any more, but butyric acid and whatnot, or it is fat, but then some water needs to be added to the equation.
Mattogno, Graf and Kues, as quoted in the blog Mattogno, Graf & Kues on Aktion Reinhard(t) Cremation (2), write the following:
Assuming that the human body consists on average of 64% water, 14% fat and 15.3% proteins, a corpse of 60 kg contains 34.80 kg of water, 8.40 kg of fat, and 9.18 kg of proteins.
The fat that is in the water is obviously included in the 64 % water, not in the 14 % fat. The 14 % is the fat minus the water that is in the fat. Dehydrated fat is still fat, if you ask me. Fat may lose some or most of its moisture, thus acquiring a thicker consistency, without breaking down into fatty acids.
Toshiro wrote:Roberto wrote: So the 14 % fat is already minus the water in the fat, which is included in the 64 % water? That's just my point.
Yes, but if some % of fat is left, there will be some water left, not zero, or that isn't fat any more.
See previous comment.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: No, that was certainly not what he was suggesting. Zyklon B was a pest killer, not an anti-typhoid agent, which may have been used to keep the operators from contracting typhus.

And how do you know the people in the van were not "gassed" with this anti-typhoid agent, but CO?
Because documentary and eyewitness evidence shows the gassing in the gas vans to have been done with engine exhaust and not with Zyklon B.

Note for readers: The above comments are related to the memoirs of Heinrich May, at the time the Koło district’s forest superintendent. A translated excerpt from these memoirs is transcribed in the blog A Great Lie.
Toshiro wrote:This smell was "coming from the van."
It stands to reason that an anti-typhoid agent was applied on the van during cleanup following or even before the gassing of typhus-carrying deportees.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: What's the deal supposed to be? The measurements estimated by May are quite in line with those established by archaeologists.

I don't see it plausible why Chelmno would have several mass graves of dimensions such as: 254m x 7m, 182m x 10m, 174m x 8m, 161m x 8m, 62m x 8m, whereas there are no such pits at Treblinka, where several times more Jews died.
Personal incredulity is no argument against eyewitness and archaeological evidence, and it’s not like the mass graves at Treblinka had been smaller than those at Chełmno, on the contrary. They may not have been as long as the Chełmno graves, but they were at least as wide and much deeper – one that Polish crime investigators excavated to the bottom was 7.5 meters deep. The Chełmno graves, on the other hand, were only 3 meters deep.
Toshiro wrote:And 2 meters of earth covering it? Nonsense.
Because Toshiro says so, or for any reason worth considering? The SS may have piled up soil on top of the grave to make up for the grave’s expected sagging when the bodies decomposed. At worst May overestimated the height of the earth layer, how frightfully shocking.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Bothmann was exaggerating. The number killed at Chełmno was about 157,000. Are you trying to make any point, or do you just feel like chatting?

Why would he exaggerate?
Why not? Self-importance comes to mind as a possible reason.
Toshiro wrote:How could he not know the number? He was one of the men in charge.
A better question would be why the executor at the end of the line need have known the number.
Toshiro wrote:To say he got the number wrong for as much as 100,000 by mistake is wishful thinking.
Because Toshiro says so, or for any reason worth considering?
Toshiro wrote:And why would an SS man be telling such secrets to a lowly forester?
The "lowly forester" was the forest superintendent of the Koło district, a man on whom Chełmno depended for cremation wood supply and from whom the mass killing couldn’t be hidden anyway. So why not tell him what was going on? And why not brag a bit about one’s achievements for the benefit of Greater Germany?
Toshiro wrote:Makes perfect sense. If you believe it.
Is that supposed to be an argument? People have often in history done things that would make no "sense" to hindsight wise guys.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Why would they not mistake for a room the inside of a van's loading room, which was all they got to see of the van? Especially in their presumable state of confusion. Besides, we don't know if they did not eventually realize they were inside a van. But once they were inside the van, it was too late.

Okay, let's say it was so. How do you know they were not "gassed" with the anti-typhoid agent?
Already explained.
Toshiro wrote:How do you know everything did not "go quiet" in the van because the people realized they're not dying after all?
Because all related evidence shows otherwise.
Toshiro wrote:How could a lowly forester be witness to such an event?
Because he was the forest superintendent of the Koło district and the killing was taking place in the forest he was in charge of.
Toshiro wrote:How come May talks about canisters of CO, but Schalling, where May's report is referenced numerous times, talks about hoses being attached underneath the truck, through which the exhaust gas was piped to the back of the van?
If May talks about canisters of CO, the likely reason is that this was the method initially used, before it was decided that using the engine’s own exhaust to generate the CO was more economic and/or expedient.
Toshiro wrote:And why are the hoses attached to something underneath, and not the exhaust itself?
If the hoses were described as attached to something underneath, that something must have been the opening through which the exhaust entered the van from the hose, which was connected to the exhaust tube at its other end.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Looks more like a strangling attempt to me. What's the deal supposed to be?

Because a bra is so much more efficient than using your hands alone...
… something a desperate mother would necessarily and immediately realize, because a hindsight wisecracker claims he would in such a situation.
Toshiro wrote:The deal is the report is filled with silliness such as this.
There’s nothing in the report, actually, that is as silly as Toshiro’s incredulity arguments.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: There is no reason to assume that the soil of Treblinka is not filled with the human remains of hundreds of thousands of people who entered the place and never left it alive (which is why, among other things, "Revisionists" are to this day unable to provide the name of even a single Jew who was transited to the "Russian East" via Treblinka or any other of the extermination camps). If the surface of Treblinka is not as littered with such remains as that of Sobibór, that's just because they did some more cleaning-up at Treblinka when building the memorial.

I'll believe it when I see it.
Now that’s an argument. :-)

Got nothing better, Toshiro?

If you want to know what the Treblinka site looked like before they built the memorial, there are a few photos here and here that you may want to look at. And also descriptions of the site in official inspection reports:
With the assistance of an expert land surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact inspection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral.[…] In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay.
"The fields are dug up and rummaged through, the pits are about 10 meters deep, bones are lying around and objects of all kinds, shoes, spoons, forks, chandeliers, hair of wigs worn by Jewesses. In the air hangs the stench of decomposing corpses. … The foul smell so numbed me and my colleagues that we vomited and felt an unusual rasping in the throat. (...) Under every tree seekers of gold and gems have dug holes (...) Between the trees cavort local peasants, eager to find treasures. When we ask them 'What are you doing here?' they give no answer."
Yad Vashem also has some pre-monument Treblinka photos in its photo archive.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: What about your mummies? Doesn't their dry skin burn well?

Mummies are several hundreds or thousands years old. I believe they are a different category altogether. Comparing mummies to several months old corpses is not the same thing.
Maybe not, but the skin of this piglet in butyric fermentation also looks quite dry to me. And the same piglet’s skin in dry decay even more so.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Not necessarily a constant supply of fuel. A rapidly developing, strongly burning fire from below might also do the job, as I argued here. How did they keep the patina from forming in those succesful pyres on the Dresden Altmarkt, by the way?

With wood, straw, kerosene and clothing. In other words; fuel. You need fuel to burn flesh, whether fresh or dry.
At Treblinka et al they had no straw and clothing, but they had much more wood than at Dresden (by my calculations, not to mention those of MGK) and they also had liquid fuel. Who said that the burning was done without external fuel?
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Or very little water in them and corpses with a comparatively higher fat content (dried-out or not) below them. A correct arrangement of the pyre provided, the time comes when the corpses' water has evaporated and they continue burning without additional external fuel having to be added. It was that way in Lothes & Profe's experiments, IIRC. And it was that way on the Dresden Altmarkt.

Fischer argued dry muscle tissue will not burn on its own.
If and because that patina comes into being. But neither Lothes & Profé nor the Dresden corpse incinerators seem to have had that problem.
Toshiro wrote:Those people did not have a lot of fat on them, therefore extra fuel most certainly was necessary, because the little fat they did have, was not enough to burn the entire heap of corpses on their own.
Not on their own but with the help of a strong wood fire underneath, and if necessary with liquid fuel sprayed on the corpses. The ones of non-decomposed malnourished ghetto inhabitants would require most additional fuel, the ones of decomposed deportees from outside Poland (comparatively well-fed in life) burned best. In the blog Mattogno, Graf & Kues on Aktion Reinhard(t) Cremation (2) I established the following wood amounts for a Lothes and Profé – like cremation of various categories of corpses:
A - Decomposed/dehydrated corpses of sufficiently nourished deportees (Table 3.15). Average weight: 28.88 kg. Weight of wood required for cremation: 8.25 kg. Weight ratio: 0.29.
B – Decomposed/dehydrated corpses of malnourished deportees (Table 3.13). Average weight: 16.96 kg. Weight of wood required for cremation: 10.54 kg. Weight ratio: 0.62.
C – Non-decomposed corpses of malnourished deportees (Table 3.11). Average weight: 34 kg. Weight of wood required for cremation: 29.60 kg. Weight ratio: 0.87.
D - Non-decomposed corpses of sufficiently nourished deportees (Table 3.14). Average weight: 57 kg. Weight of wood required for cremation: 31.92 kg. Weight ratio: 0.56.
Toshiro wrote:Roberto wrote: No, there's no indication that this was meant.

I think it was. Who ever incinerates bones without any flesh on?
See the examples from Argentine and Aschaffenburg mentioned in the blog Belzec Mass Graves and Archaeology: My Response to Carlo Mattogno (4,2)
Toshiro wrote:What happened to the flesh?
In the Argentine case it rotted away. Butchery leftovers also come to mind.
Toshiro wrote:Either a whole carcass or its parts are incinerated, or old bones for whatever reason.
The bones in the Argentine case were not old. Neither are butchery leftovers.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Why, have you never seen lumps of coal left unburned or only partially burned after a bonfire goes out? I have, and it never led me to conclude that coal doesn't burn well.

Of course I have. Try making a barbecue with fresh bones alone and tell me how well that went for you. They are not very flammable, unless old and processed.
Nobody claimed that one can make a fire with bones alone. One also cannot make a fire with coal alone.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Really? I expected dry skin to be more like paper.

Maybe mummy skin.
Or the skin of that piglet …
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Did they say obese people?

Yes, the e-mail I sent them was based on this publication of theirs. I referenced this in my e-mail, and this is to what they were referring to with the ~50 kg of fat. Other than that, I don't know of any persons that have 50 kg of body fat and are not obese.
The mentioned publication is interesting for what it says about the contribution of body fat to the cremation process, not only in obese people.
Lean body weight and body fat in human remains varies with age and gender (see Table). On average, a 25-year-old female has 52% more body fat than a 25-year-old male. A 65-year old female has more fat tissue than a 65-year-old male. The 25-year-old male and the 65-year-old female are markedly different; the 65-year-old female has 89% more body fat. How does this affect cremation? Human remains make up a portion of the combustible material, or fuel, used to complete the cremation. Larger bodies represent more fuel.
Cremation equipment is designed to handle both fat tissue and lean tissue in above-average amounts. As with any machinery, when the design limits of cremation equipment are exceeded, the results may not be optimum. With large human remains, such results might take the form of visible emissions (smoke) and overheating of the cremation equipment. Why does this happen? During cremation, fat tissue releases about 20,000 BTUs per pound – 20 times more heat. The cremation chamber’s refractory lining acts as a thermal shock absorber, absorbing the energy given off by the remains. Like a sponge, it can become partially or totally saturated. When hot, the refractory lining is already partially saturated with heat energy. Cremating a large body then releases a great deal more energy into the cremation chamber. his can result in visible emissions and/or overheating. That’s why the cremation chamber’s refractory lining should be cold when a large body is cremated, so the full absorptive capacity of the refractory is available.
Emphases are mine.

It seems that women burn better than men, and that obese people can even be too much of a good thing for the oven’s operation.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Engineer Sander of Topf & Söhne thought otherwise, and he had the experience of Auschwitz-Birkenau to go by. He spoke of so-called well-nourished corpses being used to help burn other corpses once the oven had been sufficiently heated. Well-nourished is not the same as obese.

And did Sander say 3,5 kg of coal is all it takes to completely cremate a corpse?
Nobody said that. 3.5 kg is a calculated average per body in continuous cremation of large numbers of bodies, never the amount required to burn a single body. It’s not far below the possible amount that I calculated, see post # 10 of the extinct RODOH forum’s thread "A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis ...", reproduced in the blog Reconstructing "A message to Jonnie Hannover Hargis ..." (2).
Toshiro wrote:Is 3,5 kg of coal all it takes to heat up a cremation oven?
Nobody has made such claim.
Toshiro wrote:Did an average Auschwitz inmate have enough fat on himself/herself to completely evaporate all the water in the corpse and still have enough of it left to help burn the other corpses?
No, but the majority of those cremated in the ovens of Auschwitz-Birkenau never had a chance to become inmates, because they were gassed right after arrival. And the majority of these in turn were women and children. Women, as the cremation experts tell us, have a lot more fat than men.
Toshiro wrote:If they weren't fat, which they weren't, by the way, then this is complete and utter nonsense. An average human corpse does not have enough fat to burn on its own, let alone serve as the fuel source for other corpses.
The body’s own fuel contribution depends on whether the body is that of a well-fed or a badly fed person, and on whether it is that of a man or a woman. In the AB crematoria, women and children killed right after arrival made up most of the population. An except for those that came from Polish ghettos, these women and children were reasonably well fed. Their bodies must have contributed a lot more to their own cremation than those of males. Maybe they wouldn’t sustain their own cremation if burned individually, but in continuous cremation of large numbers of bodies one could expect an "economy of scales" as concerns fuel requirements.
Toshiro wrote:The only way this oven could work as described is with heaps of coal or obese corpses. 3,5 kg of coal is fantasy land.
Actually this average amount (for continuous cremation of large numbers of bodies) is not so far below the amount I calculated on the basis of Jährling's memo of 17 March 1943, whereby the AB crematoria used 15.5 kg of coke per hour in continuous operation. Add to that the fact that there were open-air cremations at Auschwitz in August 1943, and there’s no reason why the 607 tons of coke delivered to the camp between 15 March and 25 October 1943 shouldn’t have sufficed to cremate the bodies of those among the 116,800 people gassed in the Birkenau crematoria in that period, according to Danuta Czech's Calendarium, whose bodies were not disposed of in open-air cremation, using wood and liquid fuel.
Toshiro wrote: Roberto wrote: Such only happens when many corpses are burned on a continuous basis, with the oven not being cooled down for many hours after having been heated up. I don't think there's many a cremation service in the world that burns corpses in this manner. In civilian cremation the oven is usually heated up to burn just one single body, and that of course requires a lot of fuel.

Again, if they weren't fat, it didn't happen.
That was not what was stated regarding Sander’s invention, whose mechanism was based on what he had observed at AB. This is from the transcript of day 11 at the Irving-Lipstadt trial, emphases are mine:
<12> MR RAMPTON: The case sought to be made is that it explains how
<13> it was that they were able to incinerate as many corpses
<14> as they could, and also how they managed to use as little
<15> fuel a these were able to do.
<16> A. Yes, I was looking for that particular sentence, because
<17> I did not want to quote the sentence from memory.
<18> Q. I think you will find it in translation on pages 538, 539.
<19> A. This is what it says here at page 540, it says:
<20> "Pre-heating of such an oven should take at least two
<21> days. After this pre-heating the oven will not need any
<22> more fuel due to the heat produced by the corpses."
<23> Q. Read on, will you.
<24> A. "It will be able to maintain its necessary high
<25> temperature through self-heating".
<26> Q. Carry on.

. P-161
< 1> A. "But to allow it to main a constant temperature it would
< 2> have become necessary to introduce at the same time
< 3> so-called well fat and so-called emaciated corpses,
< 4> because one can only guarantee continuous high
< 5> temperatures through the emission of human fat. When only
< 6> emaciated corpses are incinerated, it will be necessary to
< 7> add heat continuously. The result of this will be that
< 8> insulation could be damaged because of the dust created
< 9> temperatures and one would expect shorter or longer break
<10> downs".

<11> Q. That document, Professor, is this right, is in its origin
<12> quite unrelated to what went on at Birkenhau?
<13> A. It is quite unrelated you say?
<14> Q. Unrelated.
<15> A. No, its origin is of the fall of 1942 and the ovens in
<16> crematoria 2 and 3 only came into operation in April
<17> 1943. However, the multi-muffle ovens were already used
<18> in crematorium No. 1 since August 1940. So the principle
<19> is the same in the ovens in crematorium 1. So clearly
<20> they are using the principle which has been the experience
<21> that has been gained in crematorium 1 in creating this <22> patent application.
Well-fed, the document says. Must be wohlgenährt in German. Well-fed is not necessarily fat.
Toshiro wrote:Unless, of course, they used a lot more coal than you people want to admit, which they would have to.
"You people" can live with 607,000÷116,800 = 5.2 kg of coke per body, or more considering that a significant part of the bodies cremated in the period in question were cremated in the open.
Toshiro wrote:Average people simply do not have enough fat on them to evaporate all the water, burn on their own and to serve as a fuel source for other corpses.
Depends on what you mean by average people. The definition of Engineer Sander and/or the colleagues commented his invention seems to have been "so-called well fed".

Here’s Tauber, as quoted in the above-mentioned transcript:
<10> MR RAMPTON: The passage from Tauber's evidence or testimony,
<11> call it what you like, is on page 535. At the top: "The
<12> corpses of wasted people with no fat burned rapidly in the
<13> side muffles and slowly in the centre one. Conversely,
<14> the corpses of people gassed directly on arrival not being
<15> wasted burnt better in the centre muffle. During the
<16> incineration of such corpses we used the coke only to
<17> light the fire of the furnace initially, for fatty corpses
<18> burn of their own accord thanks to the combustion of body
<19> fat".
It is the same opposite on the previous page in
<20> relation to crematorium 1.
<21> He actually says in relation to crematorium 2
<22> and 3: "I know from the experienced gained by observing
<23> cremation in crematoria 2 and 3 that the bodies of fat
<24> people burned very much faster. The process of
<25> incineration is accelerated by the combustion of human fat
<26> which thus produces additional heat."
Corpses that were "fat" or "fatty" (i.e. of people who had been killed while still in a comparatively well-fed state) sustained their own combustion after the furnace had been heated, according to Tauber. The Matthews page, which is based on scenarios in which the oven is heated up for just one body (and not on continuous cremation of large numbers of bodies after pre-heating) says nothing to the contrary of that.

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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Gord » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:39 am

Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:...Yuku's deletion of the RODOH forum.
Wait! Yuku?! I just read that name on a gaming forum!

http://www.thedelversdungeon.com/forums ... 8818#p8818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
grodog wrote:I'm still bitter about this wonderful post I wrote about boomtown economics and D&D over on the old PPP boards @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/top ... p-D?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that got lost during the yuku meltdown years ago. Sigh.

I have it sketched out in my journal, should go dig it up again sometime....
Who the hell was this Yuku???
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Roberto Muehlenkamp » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:47 am


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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Monster » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:58 pm

The amount of effort put into Holocaust Denial is crazy. I hope I never get involved with these unending arguments.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Roberto Muehlenkamp » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:40 pm

Gord wrote:
Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:...Yuku's deletion of the RODOH forum.
Wait! Yuku?! I just read that name on a gaming forum!

http://www.thedelversdungeon.com/forums ... 8818#p8818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
grodog wrote:I'm still bitter about this wonderful post I wrote about boomtown economics and D&D over on the old PPP boards @ http://piedpiperpublishing.yuku.com/top ... p-D?page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that got lost during the yuku meltdown years ago. Sigh.

I have it sketched out in my journal, should go dig it up again sometime....
Who the hell was this Yuku???
http://www.yuku.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: "Chelmno book released ..."

Post by Gord » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:19 pm

:oops: oh duh
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?