My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Discussions
WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:59 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:So, I held my nose and actually looked at both nafcash and the HH Chelmno by Mattogno. This breaks my longstanding vow NOT to ever read or even look at another "Holocaust Handbook."

What is of some interest is the map found on page 168:
http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/23-c.pdf


Per Muehlenkamp (see link above):
"The fifth grave: It is not one single grave but rather a line of pits filled with ashes. The total length of these 11 pits, located 2-3 m from one another, equals 161 m. The dimensions of the pits vary from 9x7.5 m to 15.50x8.50 m. They are filled with gray soil with a significant mixture of burn waste and crushed human bones. In the southern (SE) part of the grave the bones found in the pits used to be ground; those in further parts crushed. The archaeologist refers to judge Bednarz, according to whom the depth of the pits was about 4 m and their width 8-10 m. Even now the flora on the pits is more luxuriant, making this stretch more visible on the surface."

So, this is the series of smaller pits described by WendyO. Basically these are the 11 pits which equal the "fifth grave."
These pits are filled crushed human bones and burn waste.
Jeff, I'd like to thank you for all your time and effort, but I cannot say, based on what I just read and saw in the link you directed me to, that those graves have been proven to be filled with crushed human bone and burn waste.
Do these graves exist only because years ago some judge named Bednarz said they do? Or am I missing something here?
No, this is what the archeologists found.

I'm not sure how much clearer this can be.

What we have are three converging points that show this was an extermination camp:

What the archeologists found.

Documents pertaining to gas vans:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150325081 ... zialwagen/

Witness statements:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1

There is more, of course, but that's enough to start with.

I'm not sure where you are coming from, WendyO. Maybe you could be clearer? Are you disputing graves? The camp's function? Please, let me know.
Of course I'm not disputing graves or the camps function, but I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. Mabe if we looked at another grave things will get clearer for me, because I am missing something here. How about we look at grave number 3 / 36, since it is the subject of this thread? It currently contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies which is at least 52.20 metric tons of remains. I'm not disputing that ok, but I have yet to see the proof of it. Can you show me the proof Jeff?

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:09 am

Jeff, thanks for all your time, but I have to call it a night. I'd like to leave you with one question: Did Mr. Muehlenkamp prove that Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies and at least 52.20 metric tons of human remains?

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:23 am

WendyO wrote:Jeff, thanks for all your time, but I have to call it a night. I'd like to leave you with one question: Did Mr. Muehlenkamp prove that Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies and at least 52.20 metric tons of human remains?
Sure. His calculations look fine to me.

Keep in mind, none of this is in dispute for me. This is history, the fact is those graves and their contents are expected based upon what we know about this camp.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Jeffk, how many graves were there again? I'd like to spend days or weeks on this question. If you answer, I will wait a bit, then ask again. Ok?
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:Jeff, thanks for all your time, but I have to call it a night. I'd like to leave you with one question: Did Mr. Muehlenkamp prove that Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies and at least 52.20 metric tons of human remains?
Sure. His calculations look fine to me.

Keep in mind, none of this is in dispute for me. This is history, the fact is those graves and their contents are expected based upon what we know about this camp.
Thanks Jeff, and good morning to you.

Ok, so you believe that Mr. Muehlenkamp proved that there are the remains of at least 15,353 bodies in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. What standard of proof would you call that?

Also, Mr. Muehlenkamp stated in his presentation that crushed human bones were found in Chelmno grave #3 / 36. I can't seem to find any proof of that anywhere. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please direct me to a source where I can read more about the archaeological investigation of this mass grave? Thanks again for your time. Talk to you again soon.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:28 pm

I had a go at the NAFH challenge on RODOH, but the more questions I answered, the more were added to the challenge. A CWhite on CODOH is having a go at trying to get me do it again, but it is clear CWhite is Gerdes again and so the more questions I answer the more will be added.

I actually agree with some denialists who say that a deep ground GPR to map exactly what the ground disturbances are down to the point where there is no ground disturbance, plus modern forensic analysis of bones and ash to say if it is human or not, should be done. I am sure a few will cry foul when the results come out not in their favour, but so what?

Showing large areas of disturbed ground that roughly match where the mass graves were reported to be (with maybe some signs of straight edges from the original graves) and that they do contain human remains will mean this stupid challenge can be laid to rest.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:39 pm

Then deniers will just challenge the results or, becoming sudden technical experts, they will decry issues with GPR in general. Further physical studies of sites are certainly welcome but not to shut deniers up - because they won't - rather to clarify and refine what the totality of the evidence about these sites tells us. But far more interesting and necessary is further explication of the role of Chelmno in how the Warthegau was governed, the roles ascribed population groups there, responses of Poles and Jews to German rule in the region, and how events in the Warthegau figured in the development of the Final Solution.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:47 pm

A denialist excuse not to believe is that no GPR scans have been published by Staffs Uni regarding TII for some reason. But I would like to see them as well. Full GPR scans for all of the camps with mass grave sites, plus massacre sites would be invaluable research.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:29 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Then deniers will just challenge the results or, becoming sudden technical experts, they will decry issues with GPR in general. Further physical studies of sites are certainly welcome but not to shut deniers up - because they won't - rather to clarify and refine what the totality of the evidence about these sites tells us. But far more interesting and necessary is further explication of the role of Chelmno in how the Warthegau was governed, the roles ascribed population groups there, responses of Poles and Jews to German rule in the region, and how events in the Warthegau figured in the development of the Final Solution.
One of the things I hear is that deniers want these investigations to take place but only by an "unbiased" team under the supervision of "unbiased" observers. So, there is a built in excuse if the results aren't to their liking, the researchers were "biased" and cooked the results.

My answer to this is, no one else thinks any of this is controversial except for deniers.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:31 pm

Nessie wrote:A denialist excuse not to believe is that no GPR scans have been published by Staffs Uni regarding TII for some reason. But I would like to see them as well. Full GPR scans for all of the camps with mass grave sites, plus massacre sites would be invaluable research.
I agree. We are all waiting around for Carolyn Colls to release her findings for Treblinka.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:56 pm

WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:Jeff, thanks for all your time, but I have to call it a night. I'd like to leave you with one question: Did Mr. Muehlenkamp prove that Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies and at least 52.20 metric tons of human remains?
Sure. His calculations look fine to me.

Keep in mind, none of this is in dispute for me. This is history, the fact is those graves and their contents are expected based upon what we know about this camp.
Thanks Jeff, and good morning to you.

Ok, so you believe that Mr. Muehlenkamp proved that there are the remains of at least 15,353 bodies in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. What standard of proof would you call that?

Also, Mr. Muehlenkamp stated in his presentation that crushed human bones were found in Chelmno grave #3 / 36. I can't seem to find any proof of that anywhere. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please direct me to a source where I can read more about the archaeological investigation of this mass grave? Thanks again for your time. Talk to you again soon.
Here is some information:

http://holocaustcontroversies.yuku.com/ ... -Extermina
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:48 pm

Nessie wrote:A denialist excuse not to believe is that no GPR scans have been published by Staffs Uni regarding TII for some reason. But I would like to see them as well. Full GPR scans for all of the camps with mass grave sites, plus massacre sites would be invaluable research.
CSC's research goals differs to what you seem to be looking for. Even archaeologists, with a focus on physical studies, don't conform to the terms of "HD" debate.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:00 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Nessie wrote:A denialist excuse not to believe is that no GPR scans have been published by Staffs Uni regarding TII for some reason. But I would like to see them as well. Full GPR scans for all of the camps with mass grave sites, plus massacre sites would be invaluable research.
I agree. We are all waiting around for Carolyn Colls to release her findings for Treblinka.
Not me. :)

Sturdy Colls' online vita lists her catalogue for the "Finding Treblinka" exhibit that was published in 2014 and then lists a book, also entitled Finding Treblinka, due to be published in 2014 (the book is still unpublished; on other of her webpages, Sturdy Colls states a 2015 pub date for this book). The exhibit currently in London at the Wiener Library, through October, will be a permanent exhibit at the Museum of Struggle and Martyrdom at Treblinka.

In August 2016 Sturdy Colls was awarded the European Archaeological Heritage Prize for "outstanding contribution to the protection and presentation of the European archaeological heritage”. This came in recognition of her work on Holocaust sites ("her research concerning Nazi-German terror in camps and at massacre sites across Europe").

Also, Sturdy Colls has recently completed a survey of the Jewish cemetery in Oscwieçim. This effort, which also included restoration work, is part of a major research project exploring "exploring cultural and physical genocide in Jewish cemeteries" and involved Sturdy Colls (Staffordshire - UK), The Matzevah Foundation (US) and Fundacja Zapomniane (Poland). The work in Oscieçim is "part of the 'Recording Cultural Genocide and Killing Sites in Jewish Cemeteries Project' which is funded by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. . . . The project will run for two years. The results of the survey in Oświęcim will be available in the spring of 2017."

Her lab at Staffordshire has received a Euro EU Marie Sklodowska-Curie grant for 182,000 euros to "develop and apply novel digital recording methods from archaeology and games technology to complex criminal investigations," with Sturdy Colls as project leader. A description of the lab's work in this area is found here.

The two Treblinka webpages at her university site, which describe preliminary findings, have not been updated best I can tell since '13, so they still promise additional investigation at Treblinka and forthcoming publications. However, the European Archaeological Heritage Prize announcement notes that "In September 2016, Dr Sturdy Colls will be the Fred and Maria Devinki Memorial Fellow, at the Jack, Joseph and Morton Mandel Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. During this fellowship, she will undertake research for a monograph focused on her work at Treblinka extermination and labour camps to date." This sounds like further work - the announcement says "research," not writing - on the Finding Treblinka book promised since 2013. So this could mean completing the long-promised book.

Despite references to an ongoing Treblinka project, I can't find any statement in all this of Sturdy Colls' concrete plans for further archaeological work at the camp. It does appear that a scholarly publication on the work done through '12 is still in the works, for completion and publication sometime.

This is pretty much in line with Roberto's comment at HC from October 2015 that, contrast to the work at Sobibór, at "Treblinka, where Caroline Sturdy-Colls seems to have made no further progress since she published her finds of a number of burial areas - which were obviously but a fraction of the total - back in 2012. . . . [W]hat seems to be at work here is the lady's ego, which has led her to make a big fuss about preliminary discoveries with a book about the prospects of Holocaust archaeology and a program on Smithsonian Channel, instead of devoting all her energy to what matters here, which is identifying and mapping Treblinka's mass graves in their entirety. I was hoping that she would produce more results in 2014 or 2015, but so far nothing." In addition to ego gratification, I'd suggest that Sturdy Colls is trying to garner grant monies and parlay her work into career success, which are understandable goals but not necessarily aligned with our "needs" on denial forums.

Here is an overview of the staff at the Centre of Archaeology at Staffordshire University, which Sturdy Colls directs. A list of the Centre's projects - five of the nine focus on Holocaust sites - is found here.

Recent updates suggest that Sturdy Colls has a large number of projects and research areas, including consulting work on forensic techniques and services for crimes investigators, and that rather than a strong focus on Treblinka, her work covers a broad sweep of issues, gaining her recognition in the media and with heritage organizations. Completing her Treblinka work doesn't seem to have been her priority.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:19 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:Jeff, thanks for all your time, but I have to call it a night. I'd like to leave you with one question: Did Mr. Muehlenkamp prove that Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains the remains of at least 15,353 human bodies and at least 52.20 metric tons of human remains?
Sure. His calculations look fine to me.

Keep in mind, none of this is in dispute for me. This is history, the fact is those graves and their contents are expected based upon what we know about this camp.
Thanks Jeff, and good morning to you.

Ok, so you believe that Mr. Muehlenkamp proved that there are the remains of at least 15,353 bodies in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. What standard of proof would you call that?

Also, Mr. Muehlenkamp stated in his presentation that crushed human bones were found in Chelmno grave #3 / 36. I can't seem to find any proof of that anywhere. Could you (or anyone else reading this) please direct me to a source where I can read more about the archaeological investigation of this mass grave? Thanks again for your time. Talk to you again soon.
Here is some information:

http://holocaustcontroversies.yuku.com/ ... -Extermina
Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:06 pm

I'm beginning to wonder if this one's for real. I can't recall a dumber entry into this forum. Usually they possess at least basic literacy skills.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Nessie » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:13 pm

Details of the excavation and archaeological work undertaken at Chelmno by Lucja Pawlicka Nowak from the Chelmno Museum site

http://www.muzeum.com.pl/en/chelmno.htm

and a graphic of where excavations took place, followed by photographic evidence of the archaeological work;

Image

Image

Image
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:18 pm

Which website was cited in this earlier post. Tedious little game this one's playing.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:20 pm

WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:22 pm

Hide and seek?
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:28 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
My level of knowledge of Chelmno is this: I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 15,353 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 19 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains any human remains at all, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 has ever been excavated, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 even exists, and I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 ever existed. I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:37 pm

WendyO wrote:I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Let's cut to the chase. Please list what reports or books you actually have read, in your investigations, concerning Chelmno? This may speed up referencing.

Then, while accounting for all forms of evidence, tell us what your working hypothesis is and how you systematically reached that hypothesis?

User avatar
Denying-History
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2148
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Denying-History » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:48 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
WendyO wrote:I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Let's cut to the chase. Please list what reports or books you actually have read, in your investigations, concerning Chelmno? This may speed up referencing.

Then, while accounting for all forms of evidence, tell us what your working hypothesis is and how you systematically reached that hypothesis?
:lol: This is clearly one of those situations where the denier is demanding education that they will completely dismiss.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27455
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hide and seek?
Just look for a little snowy white lamb bumbling around, for everywhere that "Wendy" goes that lamb is sure to go...
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:07 am

Lol

She is trying to see for how long Jeffk will play her nonsensical game. That's the only goal I can discern in what she's posted.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:51 am

WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
My level of knowledge of Chelmno is this: I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 15,353 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 19 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains any human remains at all, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 has ever been excavated, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 even exists, and I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 ever existed. I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Oh, good, not tip toeing around anymore, are we?

So, let's recap:

You are questioning the existence of a grave at Chelmno but you have no knowledge of the camp and it's function.

You don't want us to know your level of general knowledge about the subject.

You randomly pop in as a new member and pick THIS post to discuss.

So, what is your purpose on this forum? If you are a Holocaust denier we don't really mind, it gives us someone new to play with. Our resident long-term deniers do not come around that much anymore.
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:07 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
My level of knowledge of Chelmno is this: I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 15,353 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 19 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains any human remains at all, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 has ever been excavated, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 even exists, and I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 ever existed. I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Oh, good, not tip toeing around anymore, are we?

So, let's recap:

You are questioning the existence of a grave at Chelmno but you have no knowledge of the camp and it's function.

You don't want us to know your level of general knowledge about the subject.

You randomly pop in as a new member and pick THIS post to discuss.

So, what is your purpose on this forum? If you are a Holocaust denier we don't really mind, it gives us someone new to play with. Our resident long-term deniers do not come around that much anymore.
Can you show me the proof Jeff?

And can you tell me the proven volume of this grave?

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27455
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Lol

She is trying to see for how long Jeffk will play her nonsensical game. That's the only goal I can discern in what she's posted.
Looks like she gave up on Michael Shermer and is now focusing solely on Roberto Muehlencamp...
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 11868
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:52 am

WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
My level of knowledge of Chelmno is this: I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 15,353 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 19 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains any human remains at all, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 has ever been excavated, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 even exists, and I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 ever existed. I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Oh, good, not tip toeing around anymore, are we?

So, let's recap:

You are questioning the existence of a grave at Chelmno but you have no knowledge of the camp and it's function.

You don't want us to know your level of general knowledge about the subject.

You randomly pop in as a new member and pick THIS post to discuss.

So, what is your purpose on this forum? If you are a Holocaust denier we don't really mind, it gives us someone new to play with. Our resident long-term deniers do not come around that much anymore.
Can you show me the proof Jeff?

And can you tell me the proven volume of this grave?
You don't want proof, WendyO. No matter what I show you it will never be enough. You will continue to ask for more and more until I run out of patience....which is starting to happen.

I'm done with answering questions. Now you can answer mine.

What is your level of knowledge regarding Chelmno? What is your level of knowledge of the Holocaust in general?
What books have you read? Articles?
A sober appraisal would put Himmler himself in the racially average band, or to some extent even below it: his face was round rather than oval, his nose more broad than slim, his normal bearing more ‘sagging’ than erect...
Longerich: Himmler

Hhhhhhhmmmmmm, is it possible that Carlo Mattogno is the greatest scholar the world has ever known?
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=31585&p=713843#p713843

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:35 am

I'm curious as to why she is not capable of reading Roberto's posts and the links provided and making comments on issues in the posts and links. Well, to a degree ... a small degree ...
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:56 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
WendyO wrote: Thanks for that Jeff. Again, I appreciate your time and effort. However, I saw nothing in that link that proves there are currently the remains of at least 15,353 people in Chelmno grave # 3 / 36. I haven't even seen any proof that there are the remains of 19 people. In fact, I've yet to see any proof that this grave has ever been investigated by archaeologists.

I'm beginning to wonder if this grave even exists. Which leads me to this question: Has the exact volume of this grave ever been proven?
I think what I need to know now is your level of knowledge of Chelmno in particular and the Holocaust in general. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
My level of knowledge of Chelmno is this: I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 15,353 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains the crushed bones of at least 19 people, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 contains any human remains at all, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 has ever been excavated, I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 even exists, and I have seen no proof that grave # 3 / 36 ever existed. I have seen no proof on this thread or in any of the links in any of the posts.
Oh, good, not tip toeing around anymore, are we?

So, let's recap:

You are questioning the existence of a grave at Chelmno but you have no knowledge of the camp and it's function.

You don't want us to know your level of general knowledge about the subject.

You randomly pop in as a new member and pick THIS post to discuss.

So, what is your purpose on this forum? If you are a Holocaust denier we don't really mind, it gives us someone new to play with. Our resident long-term deniers do not come around that much anymore.
Can you show me the proof Jeff?

And can you tell me the proven volume of this grave?
You don't want proof, WendyO. No matter what I show you it will never be enough. You will continue to ask for more and more until I run out of patience....which is starting to happen.

I'm done with answering questions. Now you can answer mine.

What is your level of knowledge regarding Chelmno? What is your level of knowledge of the Holocaust in general?
What books have you read? Articles?
Jeff, I know you don't believe that Mr. M has proven Chelmno grave # 3 / 36 contains at least 52.20 metric tons of crushed bone. You can't even prove that it exists.

Jeff, what is the proven volume of Chelmno grave # 3 / 36?

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:57 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I'm curious as to why she is not capable of reading Roberto's posts and the links provided and making comments on issues in the posts and links. Well, to a degree ... a small degree ...
I'll give it a shot then.

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:03 am

Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:
Ponderer wrote:Roberto Muehlenkamp has not been honest with Mr. Shermer.

I contacted the NAFH and learned that Muehlenkamp has not been complying with the NAFH's official posting rules and has been ineligible for 17 of the 18 reward submittals that he has posted here.
Hi there, chimp.

Who do you think you are fooling with your "Ponderer" alias, when you stink of Greg Gerdes miles away?

If you have again changed your cowardly and imbecilic posting rules, just send me the latest version to my e-mail address (you know which it is), and I'll post the next submission in compliance with the latest version of your cowardly and imbecilic posting rules next 15 September.

What are you waiting for?

As we're at it, I see that your "Anders" handle has been banned from VNN, where you had earlier been restricted to the "Tard Corral". Looks like even your fellow "White" specimens want to see nothing of you.
So the man who falsely claims to have met the challenge wasn't even eligible for the reward from the get go?

WendyO
BANNED
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by WendyO » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:06 am

And he even admitted his deceit:
Ponderer wrote:Roberto Muehlenkamp has not been honest with Mr. Shermer.

I contacted the NAFH and learned that Muehlenkamp has not been complying with the NAFH's official posting rules and has been ineligible for 17 of the 18 reward submittals that he has posted here.

These are the rules that I recieved from the NAFH:
The National Association of Forensic Historians TM

OFFICIAL - N.A.F.H. - C.S.I. - POSTING RULES

* The following posting rules MUST be complied with TO THE LETTER *

* NOTE: You must post using your real / legal name *

* Thread Titles:

Each thread title for each fraudulently alleged “mass grave” MUST read like this (Fraudulently alleged Chelmno “grave” # 5 / 38 will be used as an example.):


My Chelmno Grave # 5 / 38 Proofs

NOTE: All posted information MUST coincide with the grave numbering system used by the N.A.F.H., which can be seen in this webpage here: http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p= ... count=2629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


* Opening statement:

Each opening statement for each thread MUST read like this (Fraudulently alleged Chelmno “grave” # 5 / 38 will be used as an example.):

Opening statement:

The following information is being presented as proof that alleged - Chelmno grave # 5 / 38 - contains the remains of at least 19 bodies, in accordance with - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM grave numbering system, which can be seen in this webpage here: http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p= ... count=2629" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


NOTE: There MUST NOT be anything appearing before the opening statement and all links MUST work.

* Closing statement:

Each closing statement for each thread MUST read like this (Fraudulently alleged Chelmno “grave” # 5 / 38 will be used as an example.):

Closing statement:

The preceding information was presented as proof that alleged - Chelmno grave # 5 / 38 - contains the remains of at least 19 bodies in my attempt to lay claim to - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - N.A.F.H. - Crime Scene Investigation Challenge TM - $1,000.00 reward for said grave.

Michael Shermer now has 2 months from today - INSERT POSTING DATE HERE - to explicitly and legally certify that he endorses said posted proof. Michael Shermer can explicitly and legally endorse said posted proof by contacting, via email, Greg Gerdes, President of - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM (Contact information can be found at the bottom of their website: http://www.nafcash.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) and making the following statement to Greg Gerdes:

I, Michael Shermer, acting as sole appointed arbiter of - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - N.A.F.H. - Crime Scene Investigation Challenge TM, do hereby explicitly and legally certify that I categorically endorse the information in - INSERT POSTER’S / CLAIMANT’S NAME HERE - My Chelmno Grave # 5 / 38 Proofs - thread on the Skeptics Society’s forum, as meeting my own, Skeptic Magazine’s and the Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof, and that - Chelmno grave # 5 / 38 - does in fact contain the remains of at least 19 bodies. Furthermore, I will publish this certification / endorsement in the next issue of Skeptic Magazine.

Note: What is to be explicitly and legally certified / endorsed by Michael Shermer is not just all the information that is sandwiched between my opening and closing statements, but also my answers to - The N.A.F.H.’s - C.S.I. / Alleged “Mass Graves” Questionnaire - for this alleged “mass grave.” (Said questionnaire can be found here: http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php? ... ost1383403" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
And my answers for this alleged “mass grave” are: A - ? B - ? C - ? D - ? E - ? F - ? G - ? H - ? I - ? J - ? K - ? L - ? M - ? N - ? O - ? P - ? by ? Q - ? R - ? S - ? T - ? U - ? V - ? W - ? X - ? Y - ? Z - ?
FYI - This is my __?__ “buried remains / mass grave proof” submitted to Michael Shermer for his endorsement. To date, __?__ of my submittals have been deemed ineligible for a reward due to my noncompliance with the official posting rules that I received from the N.A.F.H. prior to posting my alleged “proofs.” Regardless of eligibility status, __?__ of my submittals have been endorsed by Michael Shermer as meeting his own, Skeptic Magazine’s and the Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof.

* * * * *

* NOTE: There are two - PREREQUISITES - that - MUST - be completed - BEFORE - any potential claimant can even attempt to lay claim to any of the rewards offered by the N.A.F.H., and those prerequisites are:

* PREREQUISITE # 1: You - MUST - email Michael Shermer the following question - VERBATIM and IN TOTO - the email MUST contain nothing more and nothing less:

Hello Michael,
You wrote in your book - Denying History - that your reasons for visiting Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka and other camps was to - “see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps” and to “take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims” and to “apply the tools of science.” You also wrote that your investigations were conducted “like criminologists solving a crime” using “the same techniques used by geologists, paleontologists and archaeologists” and that the purpose for writing your book was to “show precisely, with solid evidence, how we know the holocaust happened.” Further, you wrote - “we think it is time to move beyond name calling and present the evidence” and “it is our belief that truth will always win out when the evidence is made available for all to see.” And most importantly, you wrote - “we must be forthright and honest about what we know and do not know about the holocaust” and “it is the duty of informed experts on a subject to share their knowledge” and “we cannot remain silent anymore.”
So Michael, would you please tell me: How many of the alleged “mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka can you prove contain the remains of at least 19 bodies?

* NOTE: You - MUST - forward your emailed question to the N.A.F.H. for verification.

* PREREQUISITE # 2: You - MUST - UNEQUIVOCALLY - complete the - ENTIRE - N.A.F.H. - C.S.I. / Alleged “Mass Graves” Questionnaire - which can be found here: http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php? ... ost1383403" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - according to the instructions.

* NOTE: Providing any information other than what the questionnaire asks for is contrary to the explicitly specified instructions for completing said questionnaire and doing so will be deemed as providing an unequivocal answer. Also note that questions - B, G, J, M and the first half of P - MUST - be answered numerically to be considered unequivocal. Also - BE AWARE - that any question that is responded to by a potential claimant with a lie may result in the liar being disqualified from consideration for a reward. (This rule will be enforced at the N.A.F.H.‘s discretion.)

* NOTE: Failure to abide by the official posting rules - TO THE LETTER - will automatically disqualify any potential claimant from consideration for a reward. Only individuals may attempt to lay claim to the rewards and - only one attempt / posting per month is allowed. No payments will be made to any claimant unless and until Shermer’s certification / endorsement is published in Skeptic Magazine. All submittals - MUST - be confined to the ONE initial post and the opening and closing statements - MUST - sandwich all the initial posted “proof.” Failure to provide UNEQUIVOCAL answers to any and all questions that require answers in the submittal will also automatically disqualify any potential claimant from consideration for a reward. (Please note that potential claimants are entitled to contact the N.A.F.H. prior to posting their submittal and ask for an official determination on what answers are deemed “unequivocal” or not - and it is highly recommended that they do.) No editing is allowed. All potential claimants - MUST - contact the N.A.F.H. - via email - and inform the N.A.F.H. that they have posted their alleged “buried remains proofs” on Shermers forum - on the same day that the post is made.

* NOTE: Any aspersion made by a claimant - IN ANY POST - ANYWHERE IN THE SKEPTIC’S SOCIETY FORUM - regarding the N.A.F.H., the C.S.I. Challenge, its executor or its supporters that are not substantiated with verifiable facts when challenged to do so by the executor of the N.A.F.H.’s C.S.I. Challenge, will result in the offending claimant being deemed ineligible to recieve - ANY - reward amount offered by - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - unless and until the facts are presented that substantiate said challenged aspersion or a retraction is made in the same thread that the offending aspersion was posted. (After all, for a person to attempt to lay claim to a reward while simultaneously making aspersions about the reward they’re trying to claim and those who offer it - is the ultimate in cowardice and hypocrisy.)

* NOTE: On only one day of each month - the 15th - will any attempts at laying claim to - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - N.A.F.H. Crime Scene Investigation Challenge TM - posted on Shermer’s so-called “Skeptics” Society forum be considered eligible for the reward money. Any other claim / post submitted on any day other than the 15th of each month will automatically be invalid / disqualified and WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED ELIGIBLE - AND - only ONE submittal per month per claimant is allowed - AND - only ONE claim per month - The first qualified one posted on the 15th - will be eligible for a reward.

Muehlenkamp has even admitted his deceit here:

http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=1401 ... count=2773" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:20 am

WendyO wrote:
Roberto Muehlenkamp wrote:
Ponderer wrote:Roberto Muehlenkamp has not been honest with Mr. Shermer.

I contacted the NAFH and learned that Muehlenkamp has not been complying with the NAFH's official posting rules and has been ineligible for 17 of the 18 reward submittals that he has posted here.
Hi there, chimp.

Who do you think you are fooling with your "Ponderer" alias, when you stink of Greg Gerdes miles away?

If you have again changed your cowardly and imbecilic posting rules, just send me the latest version to my e-mail address (you know which it is), and I'll post the next submission in compliance with the latest version of your cowardly and imbecilic posting rules next 15 September.

What are you waiting for?

As we're at it, I see that your "Anders" handle has been banned from VNN, where you had earlier been restricted to the "Tard Corral". Looks like even your fellow "White" specimens want to see nothing of you.
So the man who falsely claims to have met the challenge wasn't even eligible for the reward from the get go?
ROFL
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:43 am

Greg Gerdes wrote: "I, Michael Shermer, acting as sole appointed arbiter of - The National Association of Forensic Historians TM - N.A.F.H. - Crime Scene Investigation Challenge TM, do hereby explicitly and legally certify that I categorically endorse the information in - INSERT POSTER’S / CLAIMANT’S NAME HERE -"

WendyO wrote:So the man who falsely claims to have met the challenge wasn't even eligible for the reward from the get go?
No dear. It's the other way around. Before offering a Challenge where Michael Shermer is the judge......it is sort of required to contact Michael Shermer and ask him if he is interested in being the judge, in the first place.

Why don't you ring up Greg Gerdes and ask him why he forgot to do this?
:lol:
wendy o williams.jpg
Wendy O Williams of the Plasmatics sings "Butcher Baby"
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
NathanC
Regular Poster
Posts: 599
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:19 am

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by NathanC » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:33 am

Is "Wendy" another of Greg Gerdes' disguises? If so, I'd like to apologize. I mistook the Rizolis for Gerdes when they were still here. They make Gerdes look sane by comparison.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:17 am

NathanC wrote:Is "Wendy" another of Greg Gerdes' disguises?
I don't know. David the holocaust denier has a regular meme "Baby bonfires". Wendy O Williams is a USA artist from the 80's which matches his age. It does seem to be someone who has been here before. However it doesn't really matter. Until Wendy O states her alternative hypothesis and how all the evidence systematically points to that conclusion, this thread isn't going to go anywhere.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:22 am

I immediately thought of Wendy O Williams (and the Plasmatics) too, but she committed suicide in something like '98.

Our WendyO doesn't seem to want to tell us her objections to Roberto's arguments. It is funny (as in odd, not as in ha-ha) how this little lambie answers questions about Roberto's discussion of Chełmno mass graves with drivel parroting Gerdes' rules of "competition." As though anyone here except Mary Q gives a rat's ass concerning Gerdes' wittering about Shermer's role etc.

update: yes, WOW died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound in April 1998 per Wikipedia, which I should think rules her out as our new/old member
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3073
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Nessie » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:53 am

First request -

WendyO, you have been linked to details about the archaeology twice now. You respond that you cannot see. What is it that you expect to see? What is that you need as evidence you can see? Please go into some detail in your reply.

A lot of work has been done at Chelmno, excavations, articles recovered, probing surveys to establish what is under the ground. The conclusion is that burnt human remains are buried there. Are you saying that conclusion is wrong? If so, why?
Last edited by Nessie on Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26342
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: My Chelmno Grave # 3 / 36 Proofs

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:19 am

Nessie wrote:The conclusion is that burnt human remains are buried there. Are you saying that conclusion is wrong? If so, why?
Also personal objects left behind by the murder victims, some of which point to the locations from which the victims originated, providing confirmation of the fate of central and western European Jews brought first to Łódź ghetto, then starting in May 1942 to Chełmno: the excavations, on which WendyO carefully refuses to comment, found objects brought to the mansion by Reich Jews as they were processed there for murder in a gassing van, and discarded near the granary and former sorting tent. This physical evidence fits with other evidence showing that these Jews - from Germany, Austria and the Protectorate; also even Luxembourg - were brought not to the White Sea or chimerical settlements in Eric Hunt's head but to Chełmno. There's no trace of them after their presence at Chełmno.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .