Tauber's Tall Tail #1

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:26 pm

Chester you are wrong to attack me on this point

"The shrunken heads are STILL used as evidence of Nazi atrocities. Look in some books or do a web search, I did. Was it 25,800 or 28,500 hits on 'shrunken heads buchenwald.' When you click on these sites most of them claim the pictures are of Jewish shrunken heads. The same goes for the soap tales and gas spewing shower heads. You do live in Nessie land or you would have realized this fact."

I have spoken out about the mis-captioning of photos and how I see that as a far greater problem than alleged faking of photos.

I recognise stories such as human soap have wrongly captured the public's imagination by being promoted on the internet and that such damage the proper study of the Holocaust.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:30 am

Nessie wrote:Your flippant responses are noted and tell me that you really do not know how to deal properly with either witnesses or physical evidence. Where you have not been flippant......

Oh and the one you keep dodging......

Please name a witness you do believe and why.
And, to repeat a pertinent question, what is one to make of the numbers of witnesses to the same actions and events, some of them differing in the details they recall or stated, but many of them reporting the same main elements of the actions and events?

And, to repeat another pertinent question, Tauber, Mueller, the Dragons, and others all testified to being SK workers at Birkenau: in Chester's view, were they in Birkenau, what did they actually do there, what did they witness - and how does Chester know this?

These are questions which Chester continues, as Nessie notes, dodge.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:53 am

Nessie wrote:Chester you are wrong to attack me on this point

"The shrunken heads are STILL used as evidence of Nazi atrocities. Look in some books or do a web search, I did. Was it 25,800 or 28,500 hits on 'shrunken heads buchenwald.' When you click on these sites most of them claim the pictures are of Jewish shrunken heads. The same goes for the soap tales and gas spewing shower heads. You do live in Nessie land or you would have realized this fact."

I have spoken out about the mis-captioning of photos and how I see that as a far greater problem than alleged faking of photos.

I recognise stories such as human soap have wrongly captured the public's imagination by being promoted on the internet and that such damage the proper study of the Holocaust.
Deniers use a tactic of conflating popularizations, which, often (whether dealing with the Holocaust or other historical topics) use dramatic and attention-grabbing devices (much as Chester says he tries to do with his posts in this forum) and sometimes are riddled with errors and inaccuracies with the work done by scholars.

I am not familiar with a single recent scholarly study that promotes these kinds of "horror stories": rather, the work of historian Joachim Neander on "Nazi soap" and on Irene Zisblatt is an example of their outright rejection. Neander studies how folk myths develop and come to be believed, so these topics are ones he researches and deals with; other historians, with different areas of focus, mention these things in passing at most.

Will Chester offer us anything besides popular treatments from people with dubious qualifications on this topic? What, after all, does it prove that some unqualified people, thinking that they're doing good, make common kinds of errors with complex material? Or that a few charlatans and frauds try piggybacking on the Holocaust the way charlatans and frauds try piggybacking on the war in Vietnam?

(Note: miscaptioning is another issue entirely, and, as photos are often an afterthought and used to illustrate points in the interests of enlivening text, mistakes are often made; again, I'm not thinking of the Holocaust but generally - the situation is exacerbated by the circulation of "easy to find and grab" images on the Web, many of them without context, good provenance, and other issues we've discussed.)
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Lemmy Caution » Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:05 pm

Nessie wrote:Chester you are wrong to attack me on this point

"The shrunken heads are STILL used as evidence of Nazi atrocities. Look in some books or do a web search, I did. Was it 25,800 or 28,500 hits on 'shrunken heads buchenwald.' When you click on these sites most of them claim the pictures are of Jewish shrunken heads. The same goes for the soap tales and gas spewing shower heads. You do live in Nessie land or you would have realized this fact."

I have spoken out about the mis-captioning of photos and how I see that as a far greater problem than alleged faking of photos.

I recognise stories such as human soap have wrongly captured the public's imagination by being promoted on the internet and that such damage the proper study of the Holocaust.
I googled "shrunken heads buchenwald" as advised and got just 9 results in 0.16 seconds. The first is a completely stupid thread from CODOH in which "prisoners" is transmogrified into "Jews" lickety split. (I made a screen shot of the results return but don't know how to post that here . . . )

Searching without quotation marks returned about 32,000 results in 0.29 seconds. The first is a jewishgen.org entry that states, not that the heads were taken from Jewish victims but that the head was "A 'souvenir' made by the SS: the shrunken head of a Russian POW..." (this description is new to me, as I've always heard that the heads were taken from Polish victims). Next is an entry from the denier site, scrapbookpages.com, which is agnostic on the origins of the heads and claims about them. Third is from The Straight Dope - the heads are not claimed to be Jewish here either - and the author concludes, "Absent compelling evidence to the contrary, I tend to the view that appalled liberation forces heard the survivors' tales, found the tattooed-skin souvenirs, and thought: Whoa, lampshades. In short, the story may be a legend. Deniers will now claim: That proves the Holocaust didn't happen! No, it doesn't, losers. All it means is that, even in a gamy business like this, it's still possible to separate fiction from fact." Next up is Wikipedia's article on shrunken heads, which this morning states, "After World War II, shrunken heads were found at the Buchenwald concentration camp that were alleged to have been of prisoners.[3] One of them was subsequently presented as evidence at the Nuremberg Trials by U.S. Executive Trial Counsel Thomas J. Dodd even though none of the accused was specifically charged with shrinking these heads." This is followed by 3 hits for sites promoting Holocaust denial videos - the first offering a text version of saga of the Buchenwald shrunken heads; although this webpage sees Jews promoting lies, it doesn't specifically, as far as I could tell, describe the shrunken heads as claimed to have been from Jewish victims. Then comes a similar treatment on whale.to, which is followed by denier Black Rabbit of Inle's blog (here the BRoI quotes from documents stating that the Buchenwald heads came from Polish victims). The first page of hits is wrapped up with Lawrence Douglas's JSTOR article, referenced here http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p285140" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

At this point, not having found a single hit referring to a claim that the heads were taken from Jewish victims or were presented as evidence of crimes against Jews, I gave up checking the hits. Chester (the quoted bit is from him, right?) may be right that "most of them claim the pictures are of Jewish shrunken heads" - did Chester count every one of these hits and tally how they discussed these heads? Still, the first page of hits, which most people searching would focus on, has not a single example of what Chester claims.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:40 pm

Interesting shrunken head info.: http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php ... =110#watch Watch this vid

A student doing holo-research might go here for reliable info:http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/chap_11.asp

One more example of this pathological phase of Nazi culture, another Nazi trophy, is a human head with the skull bone removed, shrunken, stuffed, and preserved. (This was offered by the prosecution as a physical exhibit.) This head probably belonged to a foreign worker, kidnapped by Sauckel to work in Speer's armament industry. The Nazis had one of their many victims decapitated after having had him hanged for fraternizing with a German woman; they fashioned this ornament from his head. This represents the end product of the Nazi system, representing both the degradation of the Nazi "master" and the anguish of his victim. The official U. S. Army report attached to this exhibit deals with the manner in which this exhibit was acquired. It reads in part:

"There I also saw the shrunken heads of two young Poles who had been hanged for having relations with German girls. The heads were the size of a fist, and the hair and the marks of the rope were still there." (3423-PS)

-----------------
This is from a Military History site:http://suite101.com/article/ilse-koch-s ... s-a156147
Harvesting Tattoos, Shrunken Heads and Human Lampshades

"The pathology lab in Buchenwald produced several shrunken heads in the course of their research during Koch's time as commandant. Ilse became enamored with these artifacts and acquired a collection of them in her home."

---------------

An interested person may go to this well regarded web site:http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_fi.php?MediaId=159

"Historical Film Footage

Liberation of Buchenwald
Germany, April 1945
[Silent, 0:59]

US forces liberated the Buchenwald concentration camp on April 11, 1945. This footage records examples of Nazi atrocities (shrunken head, pieces of tattooed human skin, preserved skull and organs) discovered by the liberating troops
."
---------------------

IMHO, websites perpetuating the shrunken heads/lampshades should be notified they are spreading false information. Or, should revisionists do it for you.

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:58 pm

IMHO, if you are concerned about incorrect information on websites, the onus is on you 1) to be specific about what is wrong and summarize it in a cohesive and coherent way, 2) to explain how to correct the identified deficiencies, 3) to present a case for the level of importance of the errors, and 4) to take action.

I am not optimistic given your various performances in this forum - your hopping from claim to claim, your demonstrated inability to follow through on anything, your frequent resort to unexplained posts of what you feel should be obvious to everyone, your excuse-making and dodging, and finally the extent of your confusion, for example, your concluding that shrunken heads said to be those of Polish prisoners at Buchenwald are significantly germane to the evidence base for the Holocaust.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:08 pm

It is yet another example of mis-captioning and you could e-mail the various sites to complain.

BTW, have you got an answer yet to my question is there any witness you believe and why?
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:22 pm

Nessie wrote:It is yet another example of mis-captioning and you could e-mail the various sites to complain.

I really think that is a job for exterminationists. Notify all the websites to delete to old and add the revised information. That way your side can save a little face. If revos do it, it might not be such a pretty sight seeing websites ordered to remove false information.

BTW, have you got an answer yet to my question is there any witness you believe and why?
When I find a witness that deserves credibility - you'll be the first to know. Until then, quit repeating yourself. Thank you.

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:32 pm

Lemmy Caution wrote:IMHO, if you are concerned about incorrect information on websites, the onus is on you 1) to be specific about what is wrong and summarize it in a cohesive and coherent way, 2) to explain how to correct the identified deficiencies, 3) to present a case for the level of importance of the errors, and 4) to take action.

Thanks for the advise. I'll continue to do things my way since I know what works for me.

I am not optimistic given your various performances in this forum -your hopping from claim to claim, your demonstrated inability to follow through on anything, your frequent resort to unexplained posts of what you feel should be obvious to everyone, your excuse-making and dodging, and finally the extent of your confusion, for example, your concluding that shrunken heads said to be those of Polish prisoners at Buchenwald are significantly germane to the evidence base for the Holocaust.

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:34 pm

Finally an answer, thankyou.

So if you say there is yet to be a credible witness does that mean you think the Holocaust was an organised conspiracy between all the witnesses who say it did happen?
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Lemmy Caution » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:57 pm

Chester wrote:
Lemmy Caution wrote:IMHO, if you are concerned about incorrect information on websites, the onus is on you 1) to be specific about what is wrong and summarize it in a cohesive and coherent way, 2) to explain how to correct the identified deficiencies, 3) to present a case for the level of importance of the errors, and 4) to take action.

Thanks for the advise. I'll continue to do things my way since I know what works for me.

I am not optimistic given your various performances in this forum -your hopping from claim to claim, your demonstrated inability to follow through on anything, your frequent resort to unexplained posts of what you feel should be obvious to everyone, your excuse-making and dodging, and finally the extent of your confusion, for example, your concluding that shrunken heads said to be those of Polish prisoners at Buchenwald are significantly germane to the evidence base for the Holocaust.
It wasn't advice. It was an itemization of that which if you do not do it you have failed to meet the minimal obligations for someone who wants to be a revisionist. If you can't specify why the issue is important, how it connects to the Holocaust, what the errors are in a particular account, and what a correct account would look like, how on earth can you expect anyone to fix the supposed problem - and "exterminationists" to take up the battle? LOL
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:08 pm

Nessie wrote:Finally an answer, thankyou.

So if you say there is yet to be a credible witness does that mean you think the Holocaust was an organised conspiracy between all the witnesses who say it did happen?
Of course not! It's more like a game of telephone. Truth in one end garbage out the other.

Do you think the Gremlins were stupid? Tauber claimed the victims destroyed the equipment.

“The people going to be gassed and those in the gas chamber damaged the
electrical installations, tearing the cables out and damaging the ventilation
equipment.”[J.-C. Pressac, pp. 483f]

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Another Tauber Lie

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:17 pm

Here's another pinocchio from Tauber:

The ladling of boiling human fat from open cremation ditches

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:45 pm

Chester wrote:
Nessie wrote:Finally an answer, thankyou.

So if you say there is yet to be a credible witness does that mean you think the Holocaust was an organised conspiracy between all the witnesses who say it did happen?
Of course not! It's more like a game of telephone. Truth in one end garbage out the other.

Do you think the Gremlins were stupid? Tauber claimed the victims destroyed the equipment.

“The people going to be gassed and those in the gas chamber damaged the
electrical installations, tearing the cables out and damaging the ventilation
equipment.”[J.-C. Pressac, pp. 483f]
I think there is a chance it was garbage in one end and garbage out the other.

Let us say that there were no gassings at Auschwitz, anywhere. The garbage came in from the SS guards to the likes of British POWs as they claimed to them Jews were being gassed. Now you wonder why people think Jews were gassed there. Did the Nazis shoot themselves in the foot? Even if the Nazis did not start the gassing story, I see examples of them continuing it and nothing in the way of denial.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:09 pm

Nessie wrote:
I think there is a chance it was garbage in one end and garbage out the other.

You know the game telephone? One person tells a short story to the first person. That person then relates the same story to the second person, etc. Then the last person relates to the group what he heard.

Let us say that there were no gassings at Auschwitz, anywhere. The garbage came in from the SS guards to the likes of British POWs as they claimed to them Jews were being gassed.

Hold it right there,bubba. :shock: Are you telling me the Gremlins started the gassing stories? Good point, though. What date was that? Cite please. Not that I don't believe you, but it's the right thing to do.

Now you wonder why people think Jews were gassed there.
I know why. It was hearsay.


Did the Nazis shoot themselves in the foot?
No.

Even if the Nazis did not start the gassing story,
Make up you mind. Did they or didn't they?

I see examples of them continuing it and nothing in the way of denial.
Excuse me?


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Spontaneous Human Combustion

Post by Chester » Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:26 pm

Auschwitz - the only place on earth where the laws of physics change to suit the teller. In this case - Tauber
They lie and you guys back them up.


“During the incineration of such [not emaciated] corpses, we used the coke
only to light the fire of the furnace initially, for fatty corpses burned of their
own accord thanks to the combustion of the body fat. On occasion, when
coke was in short supply, we would put some straw and wool in the ash bins
under the muffles, and once the fat of the corpse began to burn the other
corpses would catch light themselves. […] Later on, as cremations succeeded
one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by
the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the
fires were generally extinguished.”

-------
"It was technically possible since it took place."
Naquet

Ever wonder why we :lol: at you?

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:53 am

"The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion."

Any questions ? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:34 am

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Any questions ? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Jerzy, generally you are meant to write down words to explain why you don't understand something. I assume you are simply saying the above quote is funny as you don't understand it. I gather this is a common problem for you, from your Polish posts on the pro-holocaust denial forum at http://www.polskawalczaca.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and your posts on CODOH.

Oh and don't pretend you are not anti-Jewish...
how many Iranian missiles can the Zionist entity take 10,000? 20,000? 50,000? 100,000? 150,000 or more?” I hope the Israhell will go for “more” :) Jerzy Ulicki-Rek


I did enjoy you writing to yourself, as "George Ulicki-Rek", when you got arrested for harrasing a jewish woman in Australia.
http://amphiktyon-foreign.blogspot.com. ... orced.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Only several hours later it dawned on me that the whole story had one aim: to provoke me into doing something I could be charged with. They don't want to touch me (yet) for my 'holocaust' writings, but, rather, they want to present this 'holocaust denier' as a "petty woman-basher" - that would be just perfect. Didn't work.
That's Australia for you, fellows - 2011.
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
"

Oh and Jerzy......it is best if you remove your discussions of pre-teenage porn from your "holocaust denial" forum before mentioning it to other people.
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=jerzy ... x=52&ty=73" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:00 am

My dear friend:)
I'm immune to holo-fanatics slander:)
Don't waste you time on me but concentrate on the crap provided by mr.Tauber" What do you say? :)
What do you think about his statement?
Let me refresh your memory:
""The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion."

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:34 pm

Nice to see this codoh clown resurrecting some of Trollo's execrable rubbish.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:33 pm

What, this guy isn't another Poe?
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:28 pm

Seemingly not, though in a dichotomous moment between choosing to read Jerzy seriously and washing my feet, the feet win every time.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:37 pm

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: What do you think about his statement?

You seem to have a problem reading this thread. It is Tauber's statement of what he did. That's why I posted Tauber's full quote in the second post as Chester the holocaust denier, edited it in his opening post. You haven't actually said why you have a problem with him burning the bodies of victims.

Are you pretending there were no Kremas? Are you a Krema denier?

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: What do you think about his statement?

You seem to have a problem reading this thread. It is Tauber's statement of what he did. That's why I posted Tauber's full quote in the second post as Chester the holocaust denier, edited it in his opening post. You haven't actually said why you have a problem with him burning the bodies of victims.

Are you pretending there were no Kremas? Are you a Krema denier?
:lol:

"You haven't actually said why you have a problem with him burning the bodies of victims. "

No.But I have a lot of problems with burning the bodies "Tauber way" :mrgreen:
"Are you pretending there were no Kremas? Are you a Krema denier? "

I'm Taubers Crema denier.YES :)

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:28 am

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: What do you think about his statement?

You seem to have a problem reading this thread. It is Tauber's statement of what he did. That's why I posted Tauber's full quote in the second post as Chester the holocaust denier, edited it in his opening post. You haven't actually said why you have a problem with him burning the bodies of victims.

Are you pretending there were no Kremas? Are you a Krema denier?
:lol:

"You haven't actually said why you have a problem with him burning the bodies of victims. "

No.But I have a lot of problems with burning the bodies "Tauber way" :mrgreen:
"Are you pretending there were no Kremas? Are you a Krema denier? "

I'm Taubers Crema denier.YES :)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
You still haven't said what wrong with the quote. Are you simply denying it because another holocaust denier told to you to ignore it?

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:30 am

"You still haven't said what wrong with the quote"

"The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nothing wrong mate.Quote is quote :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:25 am

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Nothing wrong mate.Quote is quote :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
So let me get this right. You don't actually think there is anything wrong with the quote so you keep posting it? Is this the depth of your confused debating skills?

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Nothing wrong mate.Quote is quote :lol: :lol: :lol:
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
So let me get this right. You don't actually think there is anything wrong with the quote so you keep posting it? Is this the depth of your confused debating skills?
It looks that you have a problem with understanding so let's me do it easy:
"You don't actually think there is anything wrong with the quote"

No.Not with the quote as a quote itself. I copy/paste it word for word:)

I say that Tauber is a liar and his words are just mega-nonsense.
Clear enough?
Now YOU have to prove that his nonsense is possible.
Not the other way around:)
If you claim that you can walk on water its up to you to prove it :)
Is that clear? :)

Don't waste my time :)



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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:06 am

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: It looks that you have a problem with understanding so let's me do it easy:
Well if you don't write any comment there is nothing to understand. Do you get that yet?
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:I say that Tauber is a liar and his words are just mega-nonsense. Clear enough?
You admit to be a jew hating holocaust denier who edits out evidence to promote holocaust denial. Tauber is giving first hand evidence of what he actually did. Are you claiming the opening for the muffle is too small? Can you be more specific at all or are you just hand waving?

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:40 am

Image

"The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

..................


The 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988

Ivan Lagacé

[Ivan Lagacé was the fourteenth witness called by the defence. He testified on Tuesday, April 5 and Wednesday, April 6, 1988.]

Ivan Lagacé was tendered as an expert in the practical aspects of crematorium practices. Lagacé worked as a professional embalmer-funeral director, and crematory manager and operator at the Bow Valley Crematorium in Calgary, Alberta. He had completed the two and a half year Funeral Services programme at Humber College in Ontario and in 1979 obtained his diploma and Ontario license. In 1983 he obtained his Alberta license. (27-7383, 7393; qualified to give opinion evidence at 27-7394))

Lagacé testified that while a crematoria business required licensing, the personnel themselves required no licence or certification. This applied to Canada, the United States and Mexico. Crematorium operators were trained by factory representatives in the operation of the equipment. Most operators were members of the Cremationists Association of North America, a self-governing association which sets voluntary standards for crematorium operation. (27-7384, 7385)

In the course of his career, Lagacé had dealt with over 10,000 bodies in his work and had cremated over 1,000 bodies. The work involved bodies in a variety of physical conditions, from accident and fire victims to people who died of highly contagious diseases. (27-7385, 7386)

Cremation Process

With the use of a flow schematic drawing, Lagacé explained the three basic processes of cremation which applied to any crematorium built from 1800 onwards. In the first stage, the human remains (referred to by crematory operators as the "fuel") were placed in the main ignition chamber. The body could be in a container such as a casket or not, but it was definitely easier to burn the body without a container because there was less fuel to burn. Although it depended on the design of the unit, the body would usually be placed through the loading door feet first. (27- 7396, 7397, 7398)

At that point, the heat source was employed, most modern crematories using gas fired or oil-fired burners. The fuel (human remains) was ignited. Temperatures became extremely hot, normally reaching 2,000 degrees, and depending upon the fuel, could go as high as 2,250 degrees Fahrenheit. (27-7399)

From the main ignition chamber, the gasses were sucked at a high velocity into a mixing chamber and thereafter through a series of baffles until the gasses were finally expelled outside through a tall stack. The main purpose of the mixing chamber and baffles was the elimination of any smoke or odour emissions. The baffles achieved this by forcing the escaping gasses through a series of twists and turns, creating turbulence or mixture. A secondary burner could be employed at this point to burn off any remaining gasses and smoke particles, but, Lagacé explained, it was not usually necessary. Because of the high temperatures, all that was needed to be introduced was more oxygen. This induced a secondary burn within the after-burner portion of the crematory unit. (27-7399, 7400)

Cremation reduced the human remains to calcium. These particles were sucked from the cremation chamber into a space called the settling chamber. Because of the larger size of the settling chamber, the vacuum pressure dropped, causing the calcium particulates to fall down. Lagacé explained that the settling chamber filled rather quickly and, depending on the number of cremations, had to be checked regularly and cleaned at least once a month. Most crematoria usually maintained a log of clean-ups. As a result of these processes, nothing but clean hot air escaped up the stack. (27-7400 to 7402)

Lagacé testified that because of Bow Valley Crematorium's extremely high stack, 45 feet versus the normal 15 feet, a high velocity draft was created drawing very large volumes of oxygen into the cremation chamber. The more oxygen that was provided, the higher the temperatures would go. As a result, crematory temperatures were passing 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit, exceeding the tolerance level of the bricks. This caused Bow Valley's refractory to fail, requiring re-bricking of the entire machine besides the stack itself. (27-7402, 7403)

Nevertheless, because of its high stack, the Bow Valley Crematorium was the hottest, and therefore, the fastest crematory in operation in North America, with the capacity to cremate one adult human body in a minimum time of an hour and a half under optimum circumstances. Children took much less time to cremate simply because of their smaller size. Bodies with a moderate amount of fat were easier to cremate than skinny people. Fat was a good fuel which ignited instantly upon exposure to the flame. A tremendous surge of heat would result, actually aiding in the cremation process. A person with no fat on their body was very "stubborn" fuel to burn because it consisted mainly of wet tissues. (27-7405, 7406, 7407) The torso was the most difficult part of the human body to cremate because of its bulk and thickness. (27-7426)

After the initial surge of heat from the ignition of body fat, the temperature in the retort would drop to around 1,900 degrees and would remain at that level until the cremation was at least 80 percent complete. Thereafter, the temperature further declined to about 1,600 degrees until the end of the cremation cycle. (27-7425, 7426)

Lagacé next took the jury through the Operations of Cremation Equipment Manual which set out operating procedures for crematories. The manual warned the operator, for the first case of the day, to "check and see that the ash tray is installed in the ash pit" and warned that "failure to have the ash tray installed can cause/or result in fire outside the Retort!" (27-7407: Manual filed as Exhibit 105 at 27-7422) )

Lagacé explained the importance of this procedure, especially in the case of obese cases, where incomplete combustion of body fats occurred. In such an event, the burning body fats dripped into the waterproof ash pan and continued to burn there. If the ash pan wasn't there, however, the fluid would leak outside of the retort and cause a fire outside the crematory. (27- 7407, 7408)

After checking for the ash pan, an operator started the preheat cycle for the afterburn chamber. This chamber was heated to create or establish the draft in the stack. The preheat cycle took approximately twenty minutes to reach 800 degrees Fahrenheit. After the preheating, the fuel (human remains) was introduced into the ignition chamber on rollers, the main burner ignited and the cremation process commenced. (27-7408, 7409, 7410)

Lagacé pointed out that the Manual contained the warning that: "Use of any metal type roller will cause excessive wear on the floor tile and shorten the life period of the floor tile." He explained that the refractory tiles used on the floor of the ignition chamber tended to wear out very quickly because of the wear and tear of the rollers and because this was where the fuel ignited and burned. Lagacé himself had worn out floor titles after only 250 cremations by using metal rollers. Once the wear started it was extremely difficult to stop. (27-7410, 7411)

To repair the unit in such circumstances the operator had to cease operation of the retort, allow the machine 48 hours of cooling down time with the door fully open, and preferably with a fan flowing through the machine. The bricks or tiling then had to be removed and new ones cemented. The average life expectancy of floor refractory was 1,500 cremations. The bricks of the retort's walls and ceilings were rated for 3,000 cremations while the bricks of the afterburn chamber were rated for roughly 2,000 cremations. (27-7411)

The time to cremate a human being (the cremation cycle) took an average of two hours. After the first cremation of the day was completed, the operator must let the retort cool-down for a minimum of one hour before beginning the second case. After the second cremation, a cool- down period of at least two hours was required. Even with cool-down times, Lagacé testified that cremations could not be done "24 hours a day, round the clock, day after day...the refractory will not tolerate it." Factory recommendation for normal operation was a maximum of three cases per day in a normal eight hour work day. No more than 50 -- 60 cases should be processed in any month so that the refractory life was prolonged. That was an average of 2 cases a day. (27-7412 to 7415; 7427, 7428)

There was no way to speed up this process, Lagacé testified, without effecting the refractory brick and endangering the life of the operator. If no cool-down period was allowed between cremations, the temperature would go out of control and probably exceed the 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit rated for the bricks. This would cause excessive spalling, or flaking, of the bricks. Secondly, the operator could not safely open a retort having an internal temperature of 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. "I have to allow for cool-down time, for my safety," said Lagacé, "and to bring the temperature in the retort to a point where there is safe loading of the next case." (27- 7412, 7413)

Lagacé testified that he had "burned my hair and my face often enough to learn that I don't attempt to open the door when the temperatures are excessive. It just can't be done, unless perhaps you are wearing a full asbestos suit. From my experience with asbestos garment, they prevent flame from contacting you, but they still get very hot." (27-7414)

Lagacé emphasized the real dangers involved if the cool-down periods were not followed. If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort when temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" could occur whereby the body would ignite before it was fully introduced into the retort. In such a case, the operator would be engulfed in flames from the burning body and would be unable to close the door to the retort. To put it simply, he said, "you can basically walk away and watch your building burn down." (27-7415, 7416)

Lagacé introduced a sample brick into evidence which the jury was allowed to handle. The brick was extremely light and brittle making it an extremely good insulator, but also very delicate: "I could take an ordinary handsaw and cut it in half." The brick was able to withstand 2,600 degrees Fahrenheit, and was therefore a little better than the average firebrick. (27-7422, 7423, 7424; brick entered as Exh. 106 at 27-7423)

In a new crematory, the new refractory brick had to be cured or dried out during a break- in cycle of one cremation per day for 25 days. If this number was exceeded, refractory failure would certainly be caused. (27-7428)

During normal cremations, there was some flaking of brick, wearing it from the inside to the outside. If the brick was overheated, however, it would simply crack along its length to about one half of its depth, thereby causing premature failure. In such a case, the fire would not be contained within the retort and the metal superstructure, which supported the retort, would buckle. Eventually, testified Lagacé, the retort would collapse and a fire would occur outside the cremation chamber. (27-7424, 7425)

During cool-down, Lagacé shut down the natural gas burner used to fire the crematory and pumped air through the chamber. Older furnaces, he said, had been coal-fired, and had been difficult to cool down simply because the operators could not shut the heat off: "Once coal is burning, unless you remove it, the heat is still being produced." Coal-fired furnaces thus prevented any quick cool-down to occur and in fact required "enormous amounts" of time to cool. (27-7426)

Birkenau Crematories

Lagacé testified that the plans for the Birkenau crematory indicated that it had been built to almost the exact specifications of the Bow Valley Crematorium. Using an overhead of the Birkenau plan, Lagacé pointed out the crematory's cremation chamber, the flame port, the smoke channel and settling chamber and the afterburner. He testified that it was obvious that the Germans were concerned with environmental effects. (27-7430)

Lagacé found the most amazing and unique part of the Birkenau crematory to be the stack, calculated to be 45 feet high, and therefore very similar to Bow Valley Crematorium's stack. In Lagacé's opinion, the rate of burn of the Birkenau unit would be as efficient but not more than his own unit in Calgary. (27-7432)

The only technology difference that Lagacé could see between his own crematory and those of Birkenau was the burner section. Lagacé's crematory used a natural gas burner while Birkenau used a stoking system with coal or something of a similar nature. The technology of Lagacé's crematory allowed him to shut the gas off for cooling. Coal was very cumbersome in that regard and this would affect the time limit since the operator could not go through a cooling cycle as quickly. (27-7450)

Lagacé was shown a photograph of one of the Birkenau crematories taken during the war and asked if the units looked familiar to his own crematory. Lagacé agreed that they were. He indicated, however, that the Birkenau retorts had been built in units of three with common walls between them. This would have eliminated the need for extra bricks and been much easier and quicker to construct. However, he noted, "should one of these need to be maintained or need any repairs, it would necessitate the shutdown of the other two [retorts]...attached to it, because you can't have temperatures of 2,000 degrees radiating into an area where you're working on another retort."

Lagacé believed that this design would never be used in a modern crematory simply because, as a business, it could not afford to have a shutdown of three units if one broke down. (27-7438, 7439)

Holocaust Claims of Numbers of Cremations at Auschwitz-Birkenau

Lagacé was asked to comment on the claims made by Raul Hilberg in The Destruction of the European Jews (2nd ed., page 978) with respect to the capacities of the 46 retorts in the four crematories at Birkenau. Hilberg claimed:

The theoretical daily capacity of the four Birkenau crematoria was somewhat over 4,400, but, with breakdowns and slowdowns, the practical limit was almost always lower.

Lagacé stated that this claim was "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality." To claim that 46 retorts could cremate over 4,400 bodies in a day was "ludicrous." Based on his own experience, Lagacé testified that it would only have been possible to cremate a maximum of 184 bodies a day at Birkenau. (27-7436, 7437, 7438)

Lagacé was referred to page 17 of Did Six Million Really Die? where Harwood stated:

Although Reitlinger's 6,000 a day would mean a total by October 1944 of over 5 million, all such estimates pale before the wild fantasies of Olga Lengyel in her book Five Chimneys (London, 1959). Claiming to be a former inmate of Auschwitz, she asserts that the camp cremated no less than "720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per twenty-four hour shift." She also alleges that, in addition, 8,000 people were burned every day in the "death-pits", and that therefore "In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled every day" (p. 80- 1). This, of course, would mean a yearly rate of over 8-1/2 million. Thus between March 1942 and October 1944 Auschwitz would finally have disposed of over 21 million people, six million more than the entire world Jewish population. Comment is superfluous.

Lagacé testified that from his own experience in cremating approximately 1,000 bodies, the figures cited by Reitlinger and Lengyel were not realistic. The person citing such figures, he said, was, "irresponsible... with his facts because this doesn't even begin to enter reality at all. It's just physically unrealistic." Lagacé said that even with present disaster plans, which provide for massive mobilization and the handling of large numbers of human remains, it would be "unimaginable" to cremate such numbers. (27-7447)

Under the disaster plans of Lagacé's association, bodies would be transported from a disaster scene to a local temporary morgue, which usually would be the nearest arena and the bodies placed on the ice. The person orchestrating the actions of the crematory managers would be the medical examiner. At his instructions, after he had completed any investigations, the bodies would be removed from the temporary facilities and normal funeralization would proceed. If all corpses were to be cremated, the bodies would have to be placed in refrigerated storage to allow time to cremate. (27-7448, 7449)

Lagacé referred to the 1985 issue of a statistical sheet compiled yearly by the Cremation Association of North America, showing the numbers of retorts located on the continent and the number of cremations done annually. The statistics indicated that in 1985, there were a total of 338,370 bodies cremated in 931 crematories in North America. In Canada alone, a total of 49,216 cremations were performed in 94 crematories. (27-7432, 7433, 7434)

Open Air Burning

Lagacé testified that he had observed the results of burning people in the open in a case involving a homicide where the murderer had attempted to burn the remains of his victim with gasoline in an open area in the woods of northern Ontario. He had been unable to do so. Human bodies did not burn completely in open spaces. In 90 percent of the cases, it would be the epidermis or the skin that would be charred; maybe perhaps the limbs would be burnt, but the torso was very difficult to cremate. It took high temperatures over a prolonged period of time in order to fully cremate a human being. (27-7441)

Moreover, an open air burning would require far more fuel. In a retort there was a controlled optimum atmosphere. In open air, heat constantly escaped so that it was very difficult to concentrate all the heat into one area. (27-7446)

Decomposition of Corpses and Handling of Typhus Infected Corpses

Lagacé testified that there would be a problem with decomposition if bodies were left for a period of one to two days. Upon death, the body's defence systems shut down, leaving any bacteria or viruses in the body "a free rein to wreak their havoc." There was a rise in the body temperature and gasses began to be produced. Within hours to a day, bloating caused by tissue gas would cause, for example, a leg to quadruple in its size. It would be an extremely unpleasant and dangerous situation if contagious diseases were involved. Tissue gas was highly contagious and adhered to any equipment such as the floor, the tables, any instruments used on the bodies. (27-7443, 7444)

Lagacé described the procedures enforced by the Alberta government in the case of corpses infected with typhus. At his discretion, the medical officer of health may step in before the body is even removed from the hospital and specify and order the funeral home to follow certain procedures in dealing with the body. These included the wearing of protective clothing when handling the remains, the destruction of that clothing and the containers that the body was placed in. In a case of typhus, the medical officer would likely order a direct cremation as this was the most effective way of dealing with something that volatile. If the body was buried, it had to be encased in a hermetically sealed container which would last over a prolonged period of time and only when the soil conditions allowed this, in order to avoid contamination of the water-table or underground streams. (27-7444, 7445)

Cross-Examination

In response to a question by Judge Thomas, Lagacé testified that there were six retorts in Calgary, a city with a population of about 650,000; the ratio thus being roughly one retort for every 100,000 persons. Crown counsel Pearson asked Lagacé that if this ratio was applied to the 46 retorts at Birkenau, the number would be 4.6 million. Lagacé agreed. (27-7452 to 7454)

Crown counsel suggested to Lagacé that when he ran his crematory he did so in conformity with Alberta law, conscious of ecology, operating the facility with the safety of employees as a paramount consideration with a view to maximizing profit and minimizing costs, and maximizing the life of the equipment by minimizing wear and tear. Lagacé agreed. He also agreed that he had no experience operating in a system that placed no legal restrictions on how many bodies could be cremated, that had as its goal, not profit, but simply disposing of as many bodies as possible. (27-7454 to 7456)

Wasn't it true, asked Pearson, that many facilities such as municipal garbage disposal facilities or blast furnaces had furnaces that ran continually? Lagacé replied that he was not familiar with blast furnaces or other such facilities and had not enquired into their operation.

As to his knowledge of ceramics, he testified that the thermocouple, a giant thermometer used in the crematory to record temperatures, was encased in ceramic but had to be changed about every 1,000 cremations because the ceramic would burn out. (27-7456, 7457)

Lagacé agreed that he was very surprised that the Birkenau crematory was a facility which rivalled the Calgary operation as far as efficiency and design were concerned. He agreed that Auschwitz was forty years ahead of its time when it came to cremating. (27-7458)

On re-examination, Lagacé testified that there had not been any typhus epidemics in Calgary recently. He agreed that any economic motivation he might have did not affect his capacity to complete cremations. (27-7458, 7459)

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/26lagace.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:52 am

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/26lagace.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
So you have copied an entire article from a holocaust denial website that doesn't answer the question. Let's try again. What are you saying is impossible in the Tauber quote? Try to use your own words unless you haven't got a clue what you are reading and you don't understand what you are posting

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:21 am

What are you saying is impossible in the Tauber quote?

EVERYTHING :)
Don't waste my time:)

Read:

HOLOCAUST MYTH
http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewforum.php?f=36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and don't back until you finish :)


............

Jewish Rabbi Openly Threatens To Kill Us For Learning About The Conspiracy
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jerzy

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: What are you saying is impossible in the Tauber quote?[/b]
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Everything. Don't waste my time
So you can't actually string a paragraph together in your owns words because you don't understand what's being discussed. I already knew you couldn't do it.
Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Read: HOLOCAUST MYTH
and don't back until you finish :)
Well Jerzy, this is your own personal forum, "www.polskawalczaca" as you are the only person who has posted there and haven't got any replies concerning your hate for Jews. However I was interested in your forums chats about underage girls. You seem very interested. Do you sell these photos over the internet from "www.polskawalczaca"?
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=jerzy ... x=52&ty=73" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote: Jewish Rabbi Openly Threatens To Kill Us For Learning About The Conspiracy
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fantastic. This video talks about David Cole. Obviously you are unaware that David Cole recanted and now says the Holocaust is real. Funny, so did David Irving. In fact most holocaust deniers have recanted leaving only lunatics running the last dregs of the old dead cult. That's why most holocaust deniers write such great comedy....they are mad as hatters

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:47 am

http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic ... 37ebd3a6dd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:lol:

.......

My dear friend:)
I'm immune to holo-fanatics slander:)
Don't waste you time on me but concentrate on the crap provided by mr.Tauber" What do you say?
What do you think about his statement?
Let me refresh your memory:
""The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion."

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek"

Now.Do your best and try to stick to ONE single topic.
What do you think about this garbage produced by "tauber" ? :)

Jerzy

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:04 pm

"Don't waste my time" he says, all the time he's wasting ours. No wonder most people have stopped bothering to reply to deniers. They haven't actually noticed this yet but their drivel and gambits and repetitive ignorant recycling can only be addressed for a certain amount of times before most intelligent people realise that engaging with them is an utter waste of time.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:10 pm

http://wnlibrary.com/Portabel%20Documen ... Porter.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jerzy

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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:03 pm

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:Image

"The procedure was to put the first body with the feet towards the muffle, back down and face up. Then a second body was placed on top, again face up, but head towards the muffle. . . . We had to work fast, for the bodies put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second part of bodies . . . We burned the bodies of children with those of adults. First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as five or six. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin. Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a woman's body to accelerate the combustion."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

..................


The 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988

Ivan Lagacé

[Ivan Lagacé was the fourteenth witness called by the defence. He testified on Tuesday, April 5 and Wednesday, April 6, 1988.]

......
What I get from that quote (mainly deleted so as to make this clearer) is that if Lagace was at Birkenau and used the procedures he uses now at Calgary, he would have cremated far fewer people. By multiple burnings, not stopping between cremations and use of ovens and pits, it is easy to see how the numbers cremated at Birkenau would be far greater than what Lagace would think possible.

I have often wondered why Birkenau needed so many retorts

"In response to a question by Judge Thomas, Lagacé testified that there were six retorts in Calgary, a city with a population of about 650,000; the ratio thus being roughly one retort for every 100,000 persons. Crown counsel Pearson asked Lagacé that if this ratio was applied to the 46 retorts at Birkenau, the number would be 4.6 million. Lagacé agreed"

if it was not designed as a centre for mass killing.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:09 pm

A study of falsehoods, lies and propaganda surrounding the Holocaust. Another attempt at the tactic of that because some are wrong, all are wrong.

I would be amazed and very suspicious, especially since the Soviets are heavily involved, if there were no falsehoods, lies and propaganda surrounding the Holocaust.
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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by David » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:03 pm

Chester wrote: from the chimney.[/u]”[/i] http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0489.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

.
Hello Chester- Thank you for the quote.
The fantastic tales require fantastic claims.
Stuffing bodies amazing numbers of bodies into the small retorts is one of them-

Some of the tales are too fantastic even for modern Believers.
Pressac writes "
But, when a witness such as Alter Fajnzylberg, alias Stanislas Jankowski, states in a deposition of April 1945 concerning his stay in Krematorium I: “In one of these openings (muffles) there was room for TWELVE corpses, but we put no more than five because that way they burned more rapidly(!) ”, one is justified in denouncing a figure that is pure propaganda.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0483.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pressac is sketchy regarding how many bodies could be stuffed in the
small retort-
it would be difficult to charge more than two or three at a time.
ibid-
two or three...Just a mere 50% difference! Nothing to a Believer.
So, for Pressac, 12 is "pure propaganda," 2-3 is acceptable.

Reality was one body at a time.







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Re: Tauber's Tall Tail #1

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:22 pm

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Hello Chester- Thank you for the quote.
Actually David, I supplied the full quote in the second post. Chester edited out Tauber's explanation of how he fitted the bodies in the muffle.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: The fantastic tales require fantastic claims.
No holocaust denier have sloppy editing techniques to hide evidence. You forgot to read the entire page you linked.....you idiot........
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0483.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At the time when I was working them, the incineration of such a charge [5 corpses in one muffle] took up to an hour and a half, because they were the bodies of very thin people, real skeletons, which burned very slowly