Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Discussions
User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:31 pm

"I gave you all needed details, you dodged it again, ok. "

OK so you cannot/will not give me more details about this room

http://housing.uiowa.edu/departments/fa ... a-2-lr.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But her is an answer anyway.

To make it into a gas chamber you brick up the gap into another room, which is where you would have the gas supply. I would run pipes along the ceiling with small holes in them so bring in the gas under pressure from that room. There would be too many pipes with too many holes to stop all of the being covered. I think there is a cupboard with sliding doors, so you brick that up as well. The door into the room could be reinforced with a metal sheet, but it is probably secure on its own as it appears to be solid wood with three hinges, so if it is 44mm thick and along with the hinges complies with PASS 22, a UK crime prevention standard for secure doors, all you need to do is remove the handle from the inside. You could either brick up the window or put in reinforced glass behind a reinforced metal security grill which has holes too small to get fingers through it, such as Sitex, another commonly used UK security product. Once the gassing has finished I would use the heater liek appliance at the window to be made into an extractor to remove the gas and vent it outside. I would remove the electrical sockets and the gray thing in the ceiling on the right of the photo. One homicidal gas chamber.

"But delousing chambers and not adapted for killing of peoples! Could they adapt them and use them for killing? Of course, but did they adapt them? No as proven by physical evidence!"

Good, you admit the Nazis are capable of adapting chambers for homicidal use. Please show me this physical evidence that no delousing chamber was adapted to for homicidal use. Indeed please show me physical evidence no homicidal gas chamber was adapted to be used as delousing.

"You speak about thousands, but you dont know how many, but you somehow know that they gassed thousands. Nevermind, you said thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands, so according to you, all chambers gassed thousands, let say 7 thousands, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno, and other alleged gassing sites, (fast calculation about number of chambers) - it looks like that in every single chamber, they gassed maybe 100 peoples during the whole period of about three years and they built chambers exclusively for some 100 peoples. You just cant be serious, you are not serious, what you write is really case for sanity and you proved it again together with rest of your comment."

No by thousands I include tens and hundreds of them.

"I really feel like somebody who is trying to explain to kid why this shuttle just will not fly to space and this kid screams again and again: "you denier, I dont believe you, this somehow works!", but how? The kid responds - "No idea"

But I have got a very good idea of how a gas chamber would work. So do you. So did the Nazis as they even built them for trains. The difference is that you say all of them were for delousing, whereas I say some were also used for people.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:36 pm

Nessie wrote:PASS 22, a UK crime prevention standard for secure doors
The Nazis had some PASS 22, UK crime prevention standard? I guess not. Try it again. You also did not said what gas, so I will choose it instead of you, Zyklon B/HCN. I repeat, I gave you all detail needed for this room.
Please show me this physical evidence that no delousing chamber was adapted to for homicidal use.
I already showed you Majdanek, read it again.
Indeed please show me physical evidence no homicidal gas chamber was adapted to be used as delousing.
I cannot show you homicidal gas chamber not adapted as delousing since no homicidal chamber ever existed. Nice try, better luck next time.
No by thousands I include tens and hundreds of them.
Interesting, only one day later and boom, not thousands, but tens or hundreds of thousands, Nessie propably discovered new evidence.
But I have got a very good idea of how a gas chamber would work. So do you. So did the Nazis as they even built them for trains. The difference is that you say all of them were for delousing, whereas I say some were also used for people.
Nessie has idea? Here are my questions, two absolute basic question about every homicidal gas chamber:

-How they introduced gas to chamber?
-How they ventilated gas from chamber?

Nessie´s answer:

No idea
The difference is that you say all of them were for delousing
Did i already said that you are liar? You are really incredible liar, here are my quotes:
Problem - you must specify gas chamber, because as I said, in some places nobody claims that gassing took place in delousing chambers and no revisionist say that were used for delousing cloths, for example, in Dachau, the only one alleged homicidal gas chamber is explained by revisionist as shower room and it is shower room and not delousing chamber for cloth. In Mauthausen, again, shower not delousing.

You are still confused that "deniers" all alleged gas chambers explains as delousing chambers for cloth, but this is not true.

Jan 19, 2012 10:44 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly, that is why you are completely off with Dachau, the alleged gas chamber is located in shower room and shower room is revisionist explanation, not delousing cyanide chamber.

Jan 20, 2012 5:26 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your question cannot be answered in general, revisionists say - somewhere delousing chamber, somewhere shower, somewhere just ordinary room, somewhere the room even didn´t exist.

Jan 20, 2012 7:43 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:01 pm

Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:PASS 22, a UK crime prevention standard for secure doors
The Nazis had some PASS 22, UK crime prevention standard? I guess not. Try it again. You also did not said what gas, so I will choose it instead of you, Zyklon B/HCN. I repeat, I gave you all detail needed for this room.

Such doors also pass fire regulations, so will keep fire and smoke at bay, fine for a gas chamber. I would add some sort of plastic beeding round the edges to make sure no gas leaks from it. If you want it to be used with Zyklon B I need to know what is above the room. I told you you had not given me enough detail.
Please show me this physical evidence that no delousing chamber was adapted to for homicidal use.
I already showed you Majdanek, read it again.

I disagree, you failed to show that. It is not impossible all the chambers at Majdanek were only used for delousing.
Indeed please show me physical evidence no homicidal gas chamber was adapted to be used as delousing.
I cannot show you homicidal gas chamber not adapted as delousing since no homicidal chamber ever existed. Nice try, better luck next time.

Fine can you show any chamber or room that was subsequently adapted to be a delousing chamber.

No by thousands I include tens and hundreds of them.
Interesting, only one day later and boom, not thousands, but tens or hundreds of thousands, Nessie propably discovered new evidence.

You are attaching way too much significance to this matter and look like you are trying to create a strawman out of it.
But I have got a very good idea of how a gas chamber would work. So do you. So did the Nazis as they even built them for trains. The difference is that you say all of them were for delousing, whereas I say some were also used for people.
Nessie has idea? Here are my questions, two absolute basic question about every homicidal gas chamber:

-How they introduced gas to chamber?
-How they ventilated gas from chamber?

Nessie´s answer:

No idea

That was in relation to one past question. The subject has moved on now. For exhaust fumes pump the gas in by running the engine and vent it out by opening vents. With carbon monoxide either pump the gas in with a pump or release it under pressure and then vent with vents. With Zyklon B drop or throw tablets in through slots/holes/gaps, close and then open again to vent. With the latter that is how it worked with delousing chambers, according to you anyway.
The difference is that you say all of them were for delousing
Did i already said that you are liar? You are really incredible liar, here are my quotes:
Problem - you must specify gas chamber, because as I said, in some places nobody claims that gassing took place in delousing chambers and no revisionist say that were used for delousing cloths, for example, in Dachau, the only one alleged homicidal gas chamber is explained by revisionist as shower room and it is shower room and not delousing chamber for cloth. In Mauthausen, again, shower not delousing.

You are still confused that "deniers" all alleged gas chambers explains as delousing chambers for cloth, but this is not true.

Jan 19, 2012 10:44 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly, that is why you are completely off with Dachau, the alleged gas chamber is located in shower room and shower room is revisionist explanation, not delousing cyanide chamber.

Jan 20, 2012 5:26 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268374" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your question cannot be answered in general, revisionists say - somewhere delousing chamber, somewhere shower, somewhere just ordinary room, somewhere the room even didn´t exist.

Jan 20, 2012 7:43 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 96#p268386" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No lies, your misunderstanding. I am referring to gas chambers, not showers etc. Did you think I meant delousing took place in showers :?
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:29 am

Nessie wrote:Such doors also pass fire regulations, so will keep fire and smoke at bay, fine for a gas chamber. I would add some sort of plastic beeding round the edges to make sure no gas leaks from it. If you want it to be used with Zyklon B I need to know what is above the room. I told you you had not given me enough detail.
Imagine what you want, roof, another room, I don´t care.
I disagree, you failed to show that. It is not impossible all the chambers at Majdanek were only used for delousing.
I did not fail, but you failed, see situation with kid again.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p273693" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fine can you show any chamber or room that was subsequently adapted to be a delousing chamber.
I never saw or hear anything about room which was adapted as delousing chamber.
You are attaching way too much significance to this matter and look like you are trying to create a strawman out of it.
You said, that thousands were gassed, now tens or hundreds of thousands, these are your words, they are here and you accused me of strawman. Is not my problem that you are making such an incredible nonsenses. You even don´t know what is strawman.
That was in relation to one past question. The subject has moved on now. For exhaust fumes pump the gas in by running the engine and vent it out by opening vents. With carbon monoxide either pump the gas in with a pump or release it under pressure and then vent with vents. With Zyklon B drop or throw tablets in through slots/holes/gaps, close and then open again to vent. With the latter that is how it worked with delousing chambers, according to you anyway.
That was in relation to your Bernburg "gas chamber". Very vague description without value, but ridiculous especially in connection with Zyklon B - "drop or throw tablets in through slots/holes/gaps", but thanks, I knew that I am correct about you.
No lies, your misunderstanding.
You lied, deal with it.

It looks like I can´t expect answer, no problem, I came to see alleged gas chamber and how was gassing possible, I saw technical and logical nonsenses without explanation how these "gas chambers" could work as alleged, I expected it.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:56 am

My prediction was correct, no matter what I come up with, you will not accept it as a functionable homicidal gas chamber. There really is no debate here.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:34 am

You are right, what you have said or showed is not functional, only nonsense. For "some" reason, you are not able to understand it.

But thanks for effort anyway.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:40 am

I asked before and you did not answer, but what are your qualifications to say that how I would covert that room to a gas chamber would not work? Indeed how would my description of how to make that room a gas chamber not work?
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:27 am

Nessie wrote:I asked before and you did not answer, but what are your qualifications to say that how I would covert that room to a gas chamber would not work? Indeed how would my description of how to make that room a gas chamber not work?
My qualifications are similar to qualifications which allow me to say that this will not fly to space.
Image
I also know arguments of experts, I also know how the only known cyanide gas chambers works in USA.

You description is useless since you did not specify what gas and you forgot that the chambers should have to be built from material available in 1941+, so your description is without value and vague.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:32 pm

Ah! that is why when I kept on asking for more detail. You claimed I had enough information, but now you come out with new requirements. Please specify all requirements and conditions first and not waste my time, then I will show you how to build a gas chamber.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:48 pm

Nessie wrote:Ah! that is why when I kept on asking for more detail. You claimed I had enough information, but now you come out with new requirements. Please specify all requirements and conditions first and not waste my time, then I will show you how to build a gas chamber.
This is of course lie as usual, here are my quotes.

tell me what is needed to change in this room below to be able to gas peoples as Nazis as Holocaust narrative claims...Choose Zyklon B or CO...

Mar 02, 2012 11:23 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p273599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


With your previous comment you only proved that you care about messenger and not about message. So what are your qualifications to say what is homicidal gas chamber, or what are qualifications of your sources which claims that some room is Nazi homicidal gas chamber? If you dont have qualifications, you cant show what is homicidal gas chamber, so everything from you is false even without my arguments, correct?

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:48 pm

Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:Ah! that is why when I kept on asking for more detail. You claimed I had enough information, but now you come out with new requirements. Please specify all requirements and conditions first and not waste my time, then I will show you how to build a gas chamber.
This is of course lie as usual, here are my quotes.

No lie, I wanted more details so as to stop this from happening, me describing something and then you adding in more and more. You are so attached to accusations of lying that such has become meaning less and I expect it now for pretty much anything. Why is asking you for more detail lying?

tell me what is needed to change in this room below to be able to gas peoples as Nazis as Holocaust narrative claims...Choose Zyklon B or CO...

Mar 02, 2012 11:23 pm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p273599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


With your previous comment you only proved that you care about messenger and not about message. So what are your qualifications to say what is homicidal gas chamber, or what are qualifications of your sources which claims that some room is Nazi homicidal gas chamber? If you dont have qualifications, you cant show what is homicidal gas chamber, so everything from you is false even without my arguments, correct?

No qualifications from me either, so in your own words " If you dont have qualifications, you cant show what is homicidal gas chamber" then you, without qualifications cannot show what is not one, correct? But we both know a gas chamber is not exactly rocket science. The Nazis made plenty. I have shown you how lethal gassing can take place in domestic rooms, so it is not hard to understand how to make one and how it would work.
Using Nazi gas chambers, here is how you would gas people

Tell people they are going for delousing and cleaning, so they have to strip, making getting their clothing and property easy and it is time consuming to strip dead bodies.

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/museum/memorial ... G_0206.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Herd them into a room with a means of getting the Zyklon B into the chamber and then for venting it

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/museum/memorial ... G_0207.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No chance of escape

http://www.deathcamps.org/lublin/pic/bigdoor.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With regards to the modern room you linked to, use a metal door as above instead of the modern fire door I described, use a metal grill similar to Sitex for the window, put a petrol engine in the room you can see off the main room, run it to introduce carbon monoxide and have vents put into the ceiling and fans into the wall below the window to blow into the room to create airflow for venting.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:00 pm

Nessie wrote:No lie, I wanted more details so as to stop this from happening, me describing something and then you adding in more and more. You are so attached to accusations of lying that such has become meaning less and I expect it now for pretty much anything. Why is asking you for more detail lying?
You lied about that I add more and more, I proved with my quotes that I claimed it from the beginning.
No qualifications from me either, so in your own words " If you dont have qualifications, you cant show what is homicidal gas chamber" then you, without qualifications cannot show what is not one, correct?
Not correct, I am not the one who care about qualifications, I care about message, I only pointed out that you are the one who want qualifications, so if you do not use double standards you clearly can´t show gas chamber since you don´t have qualifications and you contradicted yourself, simple.

Is logical fallacy to demand qualifications from me to prove that room which you presented is not gas chamber when you lack qualifications to present room which is gas chamber, simple.
But we both know a gas chamber is not exactly rocket science. The Nazis made plenty. I have shown you how lethal gassing can take place in domestic rooms, so it is not hard to understand how to make one and how it would work.
For you this is really hard as you proved.
This is Majdanek real shower room where now nobody claims that gassing took place.
Majdanek chamber IV, without mechanical ventilation capable of venting room as alleged, but sufficient to vent only delousing chamber since delousing of cloths avoid problems connected with homicidal gassings as alleged. Finally, there is a glass window, door which open inward and which can be closed and opened from inside and have no locks, both doors in the room are simple wooden. I already said this about this chamber about a month ago.

You also dont care about disrupting the whole process by victims, which can prevent introduction of pellets, they can recollect them, or they can block pellets by dead bodies and etc., of course is logical to install introduction mechanism which introduce HCN without need to throw pellets in to the room.
No chance of escape
The door from Majdanek chamber III, from completely different chamber, which lacks alleged introduction holes in the ceiling and is again nonsensical as I already said month ago.

You just picked "something" from many places, connected it together and voilá - invented nazi homicidal gas chamber, and what is more absurd, this invented chamber is the same nonsense again.

As I said, case for sanity, you really insult my intelligence.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:36 pm

Bob, all I did was ask you for more details than what you had already given me. No lies there, but you claim lies at the drop of a hat such that I no longer think you know what is a lie and what is not.

I asked about qualifications as I was curious how you would judge what is an acceptable answer or not. Arguably as neither of us have relevant qualifications we cannot reach a conclusion. I was just pointing that out.
If you are going to ask questions, you need to be able to properly assess the answers.

Why have you ignored my description of turning the modern room into a gas chamber?

I have used the component parts of Majdanek's chambers to show you how to make a gas chamber with what the Nazi's had at their disposal at the time of the camps.

By doing that I can show it is entirely possible for the Nazis to have built and run homicidal gas chambers.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:24 pm

Nessie wrote:Bob, all I did was ask you for more details than what you had already given me. No lies there, but you claim lies at the drop of a hat such that I no longer think you know what is a lie and what is not.
My last response about this lie:

Bob - You description is useless since you did not specify what gas and you forgot that the chambers should have to be built from material available in 1941+

Nessie - (from Mar 04, 2012 1:32 pm )You claimed I had enough information, but now you come out with new requirements.

Bob - This is of course lie as usual, here are my quotes (from Mar 02, 2012 11:23 pm) - tell me what is needed to change in this room below to be able to gas peoples as Nazis as Holocaust narrative claims...Choose Zyklon B or CO...(from Mar 03, 2012 8:36 pm ) You also did not said what gas, so I will choose it instead of you, Zyklon B/HCN.

Again, is proven that I did not come with NEW requirements as you claimed, I said it in my first opening reaction, that chambers must be as Nazis allegedly had and capable of what Holocaust narrative claims, and that killing agent will be Zyklon B/HCN or CO, so no new requirements, you lied.
I asked about qualifications as I was curious how you would judge what is an acceptable answer or not. Arguably as neither of us have relevant qualifications we cannot reach a conclusion. I was just pointing that out.
If you are going to ask questions, you need to be able to properly assess the answers.
I have no problem with asking for qualifications, but this of course mean, that you must leave this thread with saying "I cant show chamber I dont have qualifictaion" and I will wait for someone else who do not need qualifications and who dont care about messenger. Logically, you must refuse propably every holocaust literature and movies since Pressac, Pelt, Hilberg and the others are not engineers, some are not even historians. So if you really need qualifications, then bye bye, I do not know what are you doing here and why are you interested in this topic, propably everything what you know and what you believe is from peoples without qualifications.

I really wonder, what exactly I need as qualifications to be able to say

-"Door opening inward to gas chamber is nonsense because of bodies blocking them from inside"
-"Door without locks and which could be opened by victims from inside is total nonsense again"
-"Glass window in homicidal gas chamber is again total nonsense because victims would break it" -"De-aeration duct and openings near the floor is nonsense because dead bodies would block them or in better case, they would disrupt de-aeration"
-"Installing a better ventilation to rooms where nobody claims that gassing took place instead of installing better ventilation to gas chamber is nonsense again"

and much more., tell me, which diploma I need to be able to make these statements? From nursery school?

If you are not able to show gas chamber to ordinary dude like me...you are hardly able to show it to someone with qualifications.
Why have you ignored my description of turning the modern room into a gas chamber?
I did not ignore it, again lie, I adressed it in comments above.
I have used the component parts of Majdanek's chambers to show you how to make a gas chamber with what the Nazi's had at their disposal at the time of the camps.
Hm, but this is absolutely irrelevant, you must show all of these component parts in one chamber, but you can´t, is obvious why so you invented own non-existing chamber with using components from different places, but your chamber is still nonsense anyway.
By doing that I can show it is entirely possible for the Nazis to have built and run homicidal gas chambers
To be able to do something is diametrically opposite to actually DO something, so did they build somewhere such a chamber, where? Show it!

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:08 pm

OK, I follow now, you wanted me to make the modern room you posted an image of into a Nazi gas chamber as it was back in WWII and what I did was make it into a modern representation. Again, no lie, just the usual difficulties trying to follow what you are after. Further more you specified the use of Zyklon B after you had just said gas, so you did give new details. There is an important difference between the two as carbon monoxide needs a totally different means of introduction that Zyklon B. Again, no lies.

So we will continue without either of use having any qualifications as to what would really work and what does not, OK.

This raises some interesting questions

-"Door opening inward to gas chamber is nonsense because of bodies blocking them from inside"
-"Door without locks and which could be opened by victims from inside is total nonsense again"
-"Glass window in homicidal gas chamber is again total nonsense because victims would break it" -"De-aeration duct and openings near the floor is nonsense because dead bodies would block them or in better case, they would disrupt de-aeration"
-"Installing a better ventilation to rooms where nobody claims that gassing took place instead of installing better ventilation to gas chamber is nonsense again"

Firstly, even if a door opens inwards now, did it then? Same with a no lock and a glass window. As for deaeration near the floor, is the gas from Zyklon B heavier than air? If so, there would need to be vents at floor level. As for better ventilation in a room not for gassing than one for gassing, that could be explained by a rooms original purpose being changed.

Do you think the description I gave of the modern room as a gas chamber

"With regards to the modern room you linked to, use a metal door as above instead of the modern fire door I described, use a metal grill similar to Sitex for the window, put a petrol engine in the room you can see off the main room, run it to introduce carbon monoxide and have vents put into the ceiling and fans into the wall below the window to blow into the room to create airflow for venting"

would work or not? If not why not?

Since the homicidal gas chambers have all been destroyed or altered, at least as far as we know, the best means I have of showing you a homicidal gas chamber and how it would work is to take the most intact at Majdanek and Bernburg and alter them. It is not as if I have had to alter very much either.

You asked "Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber and tell me how was possible to gas peoples as holocaust narrative claims?"

The best I can do is show you where one was and how it was possible. With what we have now, I cannot.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:48 pm

Nessie wrote:Further more you specified the use of Zyklon B after you had just said gas, so you did give new details. There is an important difference between the two as carbon monoxide needs a totally different means of introduction that Zyklon B. Again, no lies.
You have good talent to provoke me to react even when I didnt want. First, is not my problem that you cant follow what I write, I dont have this problem with the others even when their english is bad.

Second, you lied again, I specified Zyklon B/CO in the first opening post here and I even quoted it twice as proof of your lie, but you have no problem to say again, that I did not specify it, just unbelieveable.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p273599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No NEW details, this has been specified from the beginning, so you lied and you added another lie. This whole issue and your comment thus look like trolling to me.
So we will continue without either of use having any qualifications as to what would really work and what does not, OK.
For me not problem, I care about message, not about messenger. Is interesting to see how you dropped your qualifications demands because this would mean disaster for you and for your belief in holocaust.
Firstly, even if a door opens inwards now, did it then? Same with a no lock and a glass window. As for deaeration near the floor, is the gas from Zyklon B heavier than air? If so, there would need to be vents at floor level. As for better ventilation in a room not for gassing than one for gassing, that could be explained by a rooms original purpose being changed.
Nobody ever claimed that door direction is not original, is nonsense to change direction of one door, but not of the second door which remained opened outside, so according to you - in original condition. Of course such an alteration would be easily visible, you can try it yourself to change opening direction of your door. (where is your evidence for changing direction of the door?)

Lock - these doors dont use locks, they use simple levers, no locking mechanism, you propably don´t know how these doors works. (where is your evidence for some locks?)

Glass window is genuine, is colored from using of Zyklon B, ther is no traces of any protective grid, nobody from officials claimed that window is not orginial. (at least to my knowledge). (where is your evidence that something is wrong with the window?)

De-aeration - HCN is slightly lighter than air and highly mobile as chemist Germar Rudolf said in his report. Heavier than air - total nonsense and I only wonder how could you make this claim, then it would be really useless to use it for gassings of anything and ventilation would be really risky with the gas everywhere which refuse to move up to dissolve in the air, common Nessie, use your brain!. :idea: Even if this claim would be correct, is still nonsense to place de-aeration near floor, the ventilation openings would be blocked no matter if the gas is lighter or heavier than air. (no need to ask for evidence for this nonsense)

Better ventilation - according to Holocaust narrative, they build new Kremas to be able to kill more peoples, so purpose is clear, correct? Original purpose of room don´t explain why they didn´t bother to alter ventilation to make ventilation of gas possible after they allegedly decided to use it as a gas chamber. (to clarify your position, they built Kremas for gassings? If the answer is no, for what purpose they built these new Kremas if not for purpose mentioned above?) I am really curious.

I think you are refuted.
Do you think the description I gave of the modern room as a gas chamber

"With regards to the modern room you linked to, use a metal door as above instead of the modern fire door I described, use a metal grill similar to Sitex for the window, put a petrol engine in the room you can see off the main room, run it to introduce carbon monoxide and have vents put into the ceiling and fans into the wall below the window to blow into the room to create airflow for venting"

would work or not? If not why not?
Metal doors are correct, but you did not change direction because I clearly said, that one door opens inside, so nonsense and you did not bother to change it, so bodies block your door.

Protecting grill in window is nonsense, since this window is useless in the room for gassing purpose, is of course safe to to fill it completely and not only protect it with some grill when there is still possible that peoples fighting for ther lives could damage protection, so why to risk it? Is better to fill up the useless window.

Petrol engine is nonsense, I consider as the best solution to simply lock peoples in small room with low ceiling and let them suffocate instead of building such a complicated, expensive and dangerous device, simple, correct? If you don´t agree tell me why this solution is bad. Petrol engine is also technical nonsense, there are much more better solutions and cheaper since is nonsense to wast fuel which is needed for your vehicles during war, is better to use for example Wood Gas Generators, much more lethal. But there you are correct, petrol engine is lethal and could be used for killing, but nonsensical, Germans were not dumb to use it.

The rest is very vague to adress it.

So far you presented again technical and logical nonsense, exactly as i said earlier.
Since the homicidal gas chambers have all been destroyed or altered, at least as far as we know
Wrong, you are the one who claims that chambers have been altered (by who?) to avoid admitting, that they are not capable of gassings as they claims, you are using this ridiculous excuse to dodge every problem, but you have no evidence for your alteration, when you are asked about alteration, you are silent. This excuse could be hardly taken seriously. This is the same nonsense as to answer this question "where is proof of gassings?" with this answer "there are not any proofs, because they destroyed them" so according to you again - alleged non-existing alteration prove that chambers existed in some magical original condition capable of gassings as alleged, correct?

And I repeat again, show how they looked like in original condition if they are allegedly altered from their original working condition, where is your problem?
The best I can do is show you where one was and how it was possible. With what we have now, I cannot.
Sorry, you did not show any chamber, you showed true opposite, rooms of not capable of what they claims, and why? Because science, material evidence, logic and documents.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:18 am

In my first response I used CO, you then asked for another with Zyklon B. I have been answering your questions, no lies and if you think asking for more detail is a lie, you are making this insult up like you have done with making up quotes. If I ask for more detail or confirmation please just provide it or else if I do not answer to your statisfaction it is your fault and not a lie.

I made no demands about qualifications, I just raised it as a potential issue in this instance where you are judging whether my suggestions will work or not.

With regards to doors etc and alterations I am talking about gas chambers in general and agin repeat, is there a gas chamber still in existence that was supposedly used for homicidal purposes that is in exactly the same condition now as it was back in WWII? Are you now saying Majdanek is as it was?

With regards to locks, I was responding to your use of the word. The levers on the metal doors at Majdanek will work to secure a door from being opened on the inside.

With regards the window at Majdanek, has it been blocked up, then fitted and then staind with gassing for clothes after that? Can you rule that out?

With regards to HCN I asked if it was heavier than air or not, I made no claims, I asked a question.

I agree having vents low down does seem to not be the best way to vent a room. Whhich chamber are you talking about with such?

As for Krema II and how it was made, I think there are more matters to deal with, such as holes in the roof, before you can claim victory on the subject.

With regards to the modern room, I did say the window could also be bricked up, I also bricked up one door, I left the other door to open out not in and I say a petrol engine is a simple readily available device that would be far more effective than your suffocation method. For you to suggest that would not work is a nonsense and is just what I expected from you. With no real justification or case, you will reject what I say.

Regarding alterations, I have shown examples, Krema II blown up, Treblinka II destroyed, Auschwitz I altered to air raid shelter.

You are dodging the issue that you say chambers as they are now could not be used for homicidal gassing, but I ask for evidence as to they could not have been used as they back under Nazi control during WWII. Please show me the chambers as they were and how then they could not have been used to kill people.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:47 am

Nessie wrote:In my first response I used CO, you then asked for another with Zyklon B. I have been answering your questions, no lies and if you think asking for more detail is a lie, you are making this insult up like you have done with making up quotes. If I ask for more detail or confirmation please just provide it or else if I do not answer to your statisfaction it is your fault and not a lie.
Another lie, you did not say anything about CO, you said "gas". You only later began to speak about different agents when I pointed out your error, but not in your description mentioned in link.
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 80#p273709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With regards to doors etc and alterations I am talking about gas chambers in general and again repeat, is there a gas chamber still in existence that was supposedly used for homicidal purposes that is in exactly the same condition now as it was back in WWII? Are you now saying Majdanek is as it was?
I am not aware of any officials who claims that chambers are altered and not in condition used for gassings. The only exception is alleged chamber in Krematorium build up by Soviets.
With regards to locks, I was responding to your use of the word. The levers on the metal doors at Majdanek will work to secure a door from being opened on the inside.
These doors look the same as doors in Mauthausen, same mechanism, here it is, there is even the door handle from inside to make it easier for victims (laugh)
http://faculty.berea.edu/gowlers/rememb ... hamber.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mauthausen
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only here are long iron latches and not in other doors which are different and wooden in chamber IV.
http://vho.org/D/rga2/Image329.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You also still jumping from subject to subject, you are demolished about chamber IV, so you jump to chamber III with metal doors and then again and again, but these doors have nothing to do with the doors in chamber IV.
With regards the window at Majdanek, has it been blocked up, then fitted and then staind with gassing for clothes after that? Can you rule that out?
I am not aware of any officials who claim that window is not from gassing period. Is also nonsense to add window after gassing, there is simply no reason. Finally, this alteration would be of course visible on stained wall because in this case, the Prussian blue on the wall would be interrupted.
I agree having vents low down does seem to not be the best way to vent a room. Whhich chamber are you talking about with such?
Krema II and III. "not be the best way" - in better words, this is completely wrong way.
As for Krema II and how it was made, I think there are more matters to deal with, such as holes in the roof, before you can claim victory on the subject.
Funny, when I discuss holes, you accuse me of "rely totally on the holes", now I showed another argument, and now you say "there are more matters to deal with, such as holes". I already dealt with the holes, there are no holes for Zyklon B as alleged.
With regards to the modern room, I did say the window could also be bricked up
Yes, you are correct.
and I say a petrol engine is a simple readily available device that would be far more effective than your suffocation method.
Readily available yes, but nonsense, because there are better possibilities like Wood gas generators, thus nonsense.

Tell me more about effectiveness, I am curious.
For you to suggest that would not work is a nonsense and is just what I expected from you. With no real justification or case, you will reject what I say.
I already expressed your approach with kid example mentioned above, you did it again.
Regarding alterations, I have shown examples, Krema II blown up, Treblinka II destroyed, Auschwitz I altered to air raid shelter.
Blown Krema II does not mean that we are not able to see how the chamber looked like, because we can see it.

I am only curious,
Who blown up Krema II and why?
Who destroyed Treblinka II and why?
You are dodging the issue that you say chambers as they are now could not be used for homicidal gassing, but I ask for evidence as to they could not have been used as they back under Nazi control during WWII. Please show me the chambers as they were and how then they could not have been used to kill people.
Lie again, you are the one who dodge, you dodge again some of my points. I already said that they could use homicidal gas chambers, they could build them, for them this would not be problem, but they obviously didnt do it, and why? Because there is not even one single homicidal gas chamber, sketch, blueprint, document, budget, order, anything what can show nazi homicidal gas chamber. Everything what you have showed so far is insult to human intelligence, you are not able to answer even the basic simple questions about them and tell how they worked as alleged, simple - no chambers, no holocaust.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:13 pm

"Another lie, you did not say anything about CO, you said "gas". You only later began to speak about different agents when I pointed out your error, but not in your description mentioned in link.
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17691&start=80#p273709"

Sorry, I did say gas only. I had it in mind to use CO as there was the room off to be used for the engine. That is why when you later said about Zyklon B I asked about what was above the room.

"I am not aware of any officials who claims that chambers are altered and not in condition used for gassings. The only exception is alleged chamber in Krematorium build up by Soviets."

So you don't know. More research needed then.

"These doors look the same as doors in Mauthausen, same mechanism, here it is, there is even the door handle from inside to make it easier for victims (laugh)
http://faculty.berea.edu/gowlers/rememb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... hamber.jpg

Mauthausen
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Only here are long iron latches and not in other doors which are different and wooden in chamber IV.
http://vho.org/D/rga2/Image329.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Those doors have been made to be able to open outwards, but withstand attack from the inside. The three hinges and the pivoting latch into a catch in the metal frame are because the door does not have the same level of resistence to force pushing against a door that opens inwards and has its frame to help secure it. Then there is the metal bar across the middle of the door.

Why have a metal door that opens out and is secure against attack from the inside for a delousing chamber for clothes? That door is to stop people forcing their way out, but stopping the problem of people falling and blocking the door from being opened. The handle on the inside is so the door can still be closed over by someone inside. But it has to be secured from the outside.

"You also still jumping from subject to subject, you are demolished about chamber IV, so you jump to chamber III with metal doors and then again and again, but these doors have nothing to do with the doors in chamber IV."

Name one chamber then. But in any case, since you do not know if any chamber is as it was back when it was in use by the Nazis, why deal with a chamber as it is now? Why not show how, with minimal alterations a chamber can be used for homicidal purposes?

"I am not aware of any officials who claim that window is not from gassing period. Is also nonsense to add window after gassing, there is simply no reason. Finally, this alteration would be of course visible on stained wall because in this case, the Prussian blue on the wall would be interrupted."

The chamber could have been used for homicidal purposes at first and the glass was not there, instead it was a frame with solid wood or metal. Less Zyklon B is used to kill people than for delousing, so there is less staining. Then the chamber is converted for use delousing clothes, a window is put in so people inside can see better. Far more Zyklon B is now used than before, so the staining becomes more apparent.

"Krema II and III. "not be the best way" - in better words, this is completely wrong way."

No, not in other words. You are making things up again about what I have really said.

"Funny, when I discuss holes, you accuse me of "rely totally on the holes", now I showed another argument, and now you say "there are more matters to deal with, such as holes". I already dealt with the holes, there are no holes for Zyklon B as alleged."

No holes, no holocaust as they say. But with a roof with holes in it now, you need to show there were no holes at the time the chamber was in use under the Nazis. But this is not for this thread now as there is the new thread on the holes, or lack of them.

"Readily available yes, but nonsense, because there are better possibilities like Wood gas generators, thus nonsense.

Tell me more about effectiveness, I am curious."

So show me how a wood gas generator would be so much more effective at producing CO to render the use of a petrol engine nonsense. Introducing CO or other poisonous gas is quicker than waiting for people to suffocate through lack of oxygen.

"I already expressed your approach with kid example mentioned above, you did it again"

I don't follow what you are saying there.

"Blown Krema II does not mean that we are not able to see how the chamber looked like, because we can see it."

I do not really follow that either. I have been pointing out the difficulties that you have in relying on physical evidence when that physical evidence is not as it was at the time in question. We can see holes in what is left of Krema II's roof. What is important is how they got there.

"I am only curious,
Who blown up Krema II and why?
Who destroyed Treblinka II and why?"

Already answered elsewhere, but again I believe the Nazis did it to dispose of incriminating evidence. That makes sense especially after finding themselves blamed for something they did not do at Katyn.

"Lie again, you are the one who dodge, you dodge again some of my points..."

Don't dodge this then "Please show me the chambers as they were and how then they could not have been used to kill people."

"..... I already said that they could use homicidal gas chambers, they could build them, for them this would not be problem, but they obviously didnt do it, and why? Because there is not even one single homicidal gas chamber, sketch, blueprint, document, budget, order, anything what can show nazi homicidal gas chamber."

Non sequitur.

"Everything what you have showed so far is insult to human intelligence, you are not able to answer even the basic simple questions about them and tell how they worked as alleged, simple - no chambers, no holocaust."

I have shown you examples of how easy it is to die in a room by gas poisoning. Indeed just today someone killed themselves by turning their car into a lethal gas chamber with a portable BBQ. You agree the Nazis could easily build lethal gas chambers. I can show you how to turn a modern room into a lethal gas chamber using material we have now and material available to the Nazis. I can show you how to turn rooms from WWII into lethal gas chambers. You are the one who is insulting human intelligence by closing your mind to any inconveient evidence.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:09 pm

Nessie wrote:So you don't know. More research needed then.
Good twist, I did not say I don´t know, I said that I am not aware of any officials who claim this, I saw lots of citations from officials, but they did not say anything about such an alteration. But anyway, good try to twist my comment.
Those doors have been made to be able to open outwards, but withstand attack from the inside. The three hinges and the pivoting latch into a catch in the metal frame are because the door does not have the same level of resistence to force pushing against a door that opens inwards and has its frame to help secure it. Then there is the metal bar across the middle of the door.

Why have a metal door that opens out and is secure against attack from the inside for a delousing chamber for clothes? That door is to stop people forcing their way out, but stopping the problem of people falling and blocking the door from being opened. The handle on the inside is so the door can still be closed over by someone inside. But it has to be secured from the outside.
Pardon, but this is too much.
Name one chamber then. But in any case, since you do not know if any chamber is as it was back when it was in use by the Nazis, why deal with a chamber as it is now? Why not show how, with minimal alterations a chamber can be used for homicidal purposes?
Name what? You twisted my comment, so this is irrelevant.
The chamber could have been used for homicidal purposes at first and the glass was not there, instead it was a frame with solid wood or metal. Less Zyklon B is used to kill people than for delousing, so there is less staining. Then the chamber is converted for use delousing clothes, a window is put in so people inside can see better. Far more Zyklon B is now used than before, so the staining becomes more apparent.
Pardon, this is again too much.
No, not in other words. You are making things up again about what I have really said.
Did I claimed you said it? No, this my sentence, because your attempt of damage control is obvious, the truth is that this is completely wrong and not only "not the best way" - euphemism.
No holes, no holocaust as they say. But with a roof with holes in it now, you need to show there were no holes at the time the chamber was in use under the Nazis. But this is not for this thread now as there is the new thread on the holes, or lack of them.
But revisionists mean introduction holes, not some holes, do basic research.
So show me how a wood gas generator would be so much more effective at producing CO to render the use of a petrol engine nonsense.
Article from engineer Friedrich Paul Berg.
http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschamber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Introducing CO or other poisonous gas is quicker than waiting for people to suffocate through lack of oxygen.
Really? Show it.
I don't follow what you are saying there.
I see.
I do not really follow that either.
I see again.
"I am only curious,
Who blown up Krema II and why?
Who destroyed Treblinka II and why?"

Already answered elsewhere, but again I believe the Nazis did it to dispose of incriminating evidence. That makes sense especially after finding themselves blamed for something they did not do at Katyn.


Yeah, I only wanted confirmation of your nonsense statement, that destroyed evidence proves crime.

What is your evidence for destroying of this evidence by the Germans? Do you have something? At least logic?
Don't dodge this then "Please show me the chambers as they were and how then they could not have been used to kill people."
Reverse burden of proof? No, thanks, you must show how they worked, I do not believe them.
Non sequitur.
Dodging, ok.
I have shown you examples of how easy it is to die in a room by gas poisoning. Indeed just today someone killed themselves by turning their car into a lethal gas chamber with a portable BBQ. You agree the Nazis could easily build lethal gas chambers. I can show you how to turn a modern room into a lethal gas chamber using material we have now and material available to the Nazis. I can show you how to turn rooms from WWII into lethal gas chambers. You are the one who is insulting human intelligence by closing your mind to any inconveient evidence.
Your comments are more and more absurd and you simply ingore what I write.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:44 pm

Bob wrote:
Those doors have been made to be able to open outwards, but withstand attack from the inside. The three hinges and the pivoting latch into a catch in the metal frame are because the door does not have the same level of resistence to force pushing against a door that opens inwards and has its frame to help secure it. Then there is the metal bar across the middle of the door.

Why have a metal door that opens out and is secure against attack from the inside for a delousing chamber for clothes? That door is to stop people forcing their way out, but stopping the problem of people falling and blocking the door from being opened. The handle on the inside is so the door can still be closed over by someone inside. But it has to be secured from the outside.
Pardon, but this is too much.

.....
Go to any door in your house. If you are on the 'outside', where the door will open away from you, it is easier to force it open than if you stand on the 'inside', where the door opens towards you. That is because the strength of the frame as well as the hinges and any latch and or lock is with the door. From the 'outside' you only have the strength of the hinges and latch and or lock.

A gas chamber's doors need to open towards people outside the chamber or else bodies inside could block the door and prevent it from being opened.

They need to be reinforced to prevent attack from the inside and being forced open.

They need to be secured from the outside so they cannot be opened from the inside.

That is what has been done with those doors. You need to deal with that, not dodge it.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:51 pm

"Yeah, I only wanted confirmation of your nonsense statement, that destroyed evidence proves crime."

That is such a complete lie. It was a lie the first time you said it and it is a lie now. DESTROYED EVIDENCE DOES NOT PROVE CRIME YOU LIAR

"Article from engineer Friedrich Paul Berg.
http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschamber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

You cannot read, I said petrol engine, that is about diesel engines.

"..... I already said that they could use homicidal gas chambers, they could build them, for them this would not be problem, but they obviously didnt do it, and why? Because there is not even one single homicidal gas chamber, sketch, blueprint, document, budget, order, anything what can show nazi homicidal gas chamber."

Non sequitur.

"Dodging, ok."

No it is a non sequitur, show me you know what that even means


"Your comments are more and more absurd and you simply ingore what I write."

That applies to you far more than it applies to me.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:20 pm

No dodging, your claims are too absurd to be adressed, it looks like trolling to me, you just make these absurd claims to provoke me to react, that is how your absurd comments looks and you still repeat them again and again even when I refuted you month ago.
That is such a complete lie. It was a lie the first time you said it and it is a lie now. DESTROYED EVIDENCE DOES NOT PROVE CRIME YOU LIAR
Capslock and red letters could not change the fact that you said this agian, a several minutes ago. According to you, Treblinka II or Krema II evidence has been destroyed by nazis to hide crime, and because we dont have this evidence, is proven that nazis destroyed it to hide their crime - just absurd logic of Nessie. You don´t have even logic which contradict this nonsense.
You cannot read, I said petrol engine, that is about diesel engines.
No dear Sir, you cannot read, he discuss wood gas generators and their toxicity and he discuss petrol engines as well. This prove that you saw only name of the article and didn read it, really absurd case of ignorance and hate.
No it is a non sequitur, show me you know what that even means
If you don´t know what it means, just use google, I know it, you simple used it to dodge subject.
That applies to you far more than it applies to me.
Logically, you self admited that your comments are really more and more absurd and you only used damage control with stating that my comments are allegedly far more absurd, good, thanks for honest confirmation.

I have no reason to admit such nonsense in connection with my own comments because this is not true, you are demolished, no chambers, no holocaust, simple an proven by science, material evidence, documents and logic and your absurd refuted claims could not change it. Peoples did not die, great, but these news are somehow unwelcomed by peoples like Nessie.

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by David » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:43 am

Bob wrote:No dodging, your claims are too absurd to be adressed, it looks like trolling to me, you just make these absurd claims to provoke me to react, that is how your absurd comments looks and you still repeat them again and again even when I refuted you month ago.
That is such a complete lie. It was a lie the first time you said it and it is a lie now. DESTROYED EVIDENCE DOES NOT PROVE CRIME YOU LIAR
Capslock and red letters could not change the fact that you said this agian, a several minutes ago. According to you, Treblinka II or Krema II evidence has been destroyed by nazis to hide crime, and because we dont have this evidence, is proven that nazis destroyed it to hide their crime - just absurd logic of Nessie. You don´t have even logic which contradict this nonsense.
You cannot read, I said petrol engine, that is about diesel engines.
Hey Guys- I enjoy reading your discussion but it is a complex subject. The discussion ranges over numerous alleged "gas chambers" and
numerous different tales regarding each "gas chamber."
For example, the various gas chambers at Treblinka have witnesses which
claim use of steam, vacuum chambers, diesel engines, gasoline engines,
and zyklon D. Then we have numerous tales of how the "death chambers"
worked and how they were destroyed.
And then we have a fair amount of evidence which shows that
the Treblinka II area was not obliterated, that significant physical remains
of buildings, documents, garbage, rail spur, fences, etc. were left by the Germans
and destroy under the Soviets/Poles.
In short, it is frigg'n confusing. Let our discussions create more light and less heat. We are in it for the Truth!


User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:15 am

Bob wrote:No dodging, your claims are too absurd to be adressed, it looks like trolling to me, you just make these absurd claims to provoke me to react, that is how your absurd comments looks and you still repeat them again and again even when I refuted you month ago.

Deal with the doors please, no dodging
That is such a complete lie. It was a lie the first time you said it and it is a lie now. DESTROYED EVIDENCE DOES NOT PROVE CRIME YOU LIAR
Capslock and red letters could not change the fact that you said this agian, a several minutes ago. According to you, Treblinka II or Krema II evidence has been destroyed by nazis to hide crime, and because we dont have this evidence, is proven that nazis destroyed it to hide their crime - just absurd logic of Nessie. You don´t have even logic which contradict this nonsense.

At last you appear to understand, the Nazis destroyed evidence to hide their crimes and that in its self does not prove the crime. Destruction or hiding of evidence is called attempting to pervert the course of justice, it is different from the original crime. You do not ven need an original crime to attempt pervert. You really need to stop your repeated lie that destruction of evidence proves a crime.
You cannot read, I said petrol engine, that is about diesel engines.
No dear Sir, you cannot read, he discuss wood gas generators and their toxicity and he discuss petrol engines as well. This prove that you saw only name of the article and didn read it, really absurd case of ignorance and hate.

I used petrol engines in my case. You are dodging that by going off on a tangent.
No it is a non sequitur, show me you know what that even means
If you don´t know what it means, just use google, I know it, you simple used it to dodge subject.

The subject does not make sense, it is a non sequitur. Make sense and I will deal with it.
That applies to you far more than it applies to me.
Logically, you self admited that your comments are really more and more absurd and you only used damage control with stating that my comments are allegedly far more absurd, good, thanks for honest confirmation.

Your logic is weird and wonderful and not based in reality.

I have no reason to admit such nonsense in connection with my own comments because this is not true, you are demolished, no chambers, no holocaust, simple an proven by science, material evidence, documents and logic and your absurd refuted claims could not change it. Peoples did not die, great, but these news are somehow unwelcomed by peoples like Nessie.

It is you who has been demolished, mainly because when evidence is there that does not suit your denier claims, you ignore it or just claim it is nonsense without proper critical analysis. I have proved that the Nazis can make gas chambers and that gas chambers can be used homicidally.

I have repeatedly said that fewer people died than official reports originally said. Yet you criticised me for that. Now you are criticising me for finding that somehow unwelcome
.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:57 pm

Nessie wrote:Deal with the doors please, no dodging
Call it dodgning I don´t care, but i will not adress such an absurd claims, thanks. What is worse, I adressed it some month ago in different thread, your posts are not only absurd but also repetitive.
At last you appear to understand, the Nazis destroyed evidence to hide their crimes and that in its self does not prove the crime.


You did it again, evidence of crime which don´t exist prove crime because it has been destroyed by criminals, you again confirmed this nonsense. This of course mean that evidence not destroyed by criminals is not evidence of crime, because criminals did´nt destroy it, correct?

Nessie murdered millions of peoples in his home, do I have evidence? No, evidence don´t exist of course, because Nessie destroyed evidence to hide his crime and because this evidence dont´exist, this prove that he murdered them, because he destroyed evidence it to hide this crime and that is why we don´t see this evidence.

This is Nessie´s logic.

I used petrol engines in my case. You are dodging that by going off on a tangent.
What? Here is your question - "So show me how a wood gas generator would be so much more effective at producing CO to render the use of a petrol engine nonsense."

You got response Here, for some reason you don´t want to read it.

Ok, here is little summary from revisionist Treblinka book
Had the SS men wished to carry out mass gassings with engine exhaust gases, Berg argues, they would surely have resorted to a gasoline engine, the exhaust gases of which normally contain 7% by volume of carbon monoxide and 1% by volume of oxygen. With proper adjustment of the carburetor, the carbon monoxide content can be increased up to 12%. But that would have by no means been the ‘best’ source of CO available during World War II: due to a lack of gasoline, the German government passed laws that made it compulsory to equip all diesel-driven vehicles with producer gas generators, which generate a gas with up to 35% of CO from wood or coke. Hundreds of thousands of these truly poisonous generators operated in wartime Germany and in the occupied territories, and this technology was well-known to all major German politicians at that time, as Berg shows.
Nessie wrote:
Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:That applies to you far more than it applies to me.
Logically, you self admited that your comments are really more and more absurd and you only used damage control with stating that my comments are allegedly far more absurd, good, thanks for honest confirmation.
Your logic is weird and wonderful and not based in reality.
My logic is of course absolutely correct.
It is you who has been demolished, mainly because when evidence is there that does not suit your denier claims, you ignore it or just claim it is nonsense without proper critical analysis. I have proved that the Nazis can make gas chambers and that gas chambers can be used homicidally.


You are right, I ignored a few points from you, because you really insult my intelligence with saying such a absurditties, and i will not play your game with adressing these nonsenses, see example with kid and space shuttle above, I really don´t enjoy such a debate, it looks like trolling.

Otherwise I adressed everything, you just failed to show at least one gas chamber one of many which killed millions of peoples, no gas chamber, no holocaust.

I have proved that the Nazis can make gas chambers and that gas chambers can be used homicidally.


Here again, another absolutely nonsense from Nessie. First you did not prove anything like that only that you are not able to construct chamber. I proved it myself with showing real huge gas chambers which were not used for gassings and nobody claims it.

Second, did somebody dispute this? Did somebody deny this? Of ocurse not, the subjects is about where they actually built such a device, show it to me finally! I don´t care if they could because I know they could do it, but I want to see where they did it! Are abou blind or you can´t read?

Name of this topic is not: Can you show me if the Nazis could build gas camber and were capable of building gas chamber? Correct name of this thread and opening question is:

1)Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber and tell me how was possible to gas peoples as holocaust narrative claims?

Do you finally see what is topic of this thread started month ago or do I need to use bigger letters?

You believe that you are able to construct gas chamber, that you can make it, you said it, this means that you actually built some homicidal chamber? Where? Show it.

I have repeatedly said that fewer people died than official reports originally said. Yet you criticised me for that. Now you are criticising me for finding that somehow unwelcome.


Yes, I know, you said that they gassed thousands, when I pointed out this nonsense, you changed it to tens and hundreds of thousands, you said these things, but without evidence. In my country you would be prosecuted and sentenced for this.

Where do I criticise? Again invention, I only said that this fact is somehow unwelcomed by peoples like you, that´s all.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:50 pm

You are dodging the issue of the doors. Why make doors that are secure from the inside and easily opened from the outside for delousing clothes? It would be cheaper and easier to make a standard door, which so long as it is pretty much airtight would work finr for delousing. Fact is those doors are a perfect design for use in a homicidal gas chamber as people inside cannot get out.

Regarding your supposed logic, your response to "At last you appear to understand, the Nazis destroyed evidence to hide their crimes and that in its self does not prove the crime." results in this utter nonsense

"You did it again, evidence of crime which don´t exist prove crime because it has been destroyed by criminals, you again confirmed this nonsense. This of course mean that evidence not destroyed by criminals is not evidence of crime, because criminals did´nt destroy it, correct?"

I really do not think that you understand how evidence and proof works if you are coming out with such rubbish. I mean, can you not see how "evidence not destroyed ....is not evidence" and how evidence destroyed proves a crime is complete drivel? Have you ever seen any criminal enquiry take place at all?

Then you give this example

"Nessie murdered millions of peoples in his home, do I have evidence? No, evidence don´t exist of course, because Nessie destroyed evidence to hide his crime and because this evidence dont´exist, this prove that he murdered them, because he destroyed evidence it to hide this crime and that is why we don´t see this evidence."

But this is how it really works. Say you murder someone and you then go to hide the body, but you are caught hiding the body. That you have hidden the body is not proof you committed the murder. It does make you a suspect in the subsequent murder enquiry and if there is other evidence to show it was you who committed the murder, the hiding of the body can also be used as evidence as well. But say there is no evidence you did the murder, or it is found out that someone else did the murder and you only hid the body. You have still commited a crime, attempting to pervert the course of justice. Say you are not caught hiding the body and there is no trace of the body, but there is suspicion that you have murder someone. Evidence from the body is no longer possible as it is not there. The evidence of the murder has to come from elsewhere. If there is no other evidence and no body, you will go free as there is no evidence, let alone proof you commited murder. If you were only involved in hiding the body, the same applies. With no body that cannot be used as evidence, the vidence has to come from elsewhere. If there is sufficient evidence that you have hidden a body, you will be charged with attempting to pervert the course of justice. If there is not sufficient evidence you will go free.

That is exactly how a criminal enquiry works with regards to evidence and proof. I really hope you can follow that and stop your complete misinterpretation of how evidence and proof works.

I gave an example with a petrol engine. You say a wood burner would be better. OK so it would be better as shown by "What? Here is your question - "So show me how a wood gas generator would be so much more effective at producing CO to render the use of a petrol engine nonsense." I conceed that a wood burner would be better than a petrol engine. But a petrol engine would still work.

"My logic is of course absolutely correct." Saying it, even being convinced yourself by it, does not necessarily make it so. That terrible attitude continues here "You are right, I ignored a few points from you, because you really insult my intelligence with saying such a absurditties, and i will not play your game with adressing these nonsenses, see example with kid and space shuttle above, I really don´t enjoy such a debate, it looks like trolling." It come over that points or evidence which you do not like or contradict you will be ignored or rubbished with no counter evidence or constructive argument.

You then go on with the standard denier claim of "Otherwise I adressed everything, you just failed to show at least one gas chamber one of many which killed millions of peoples, no gas chamber, no holocaust."

You do not properly address everything. If something does not fit your version of events, it is dismissed as a lie or ignored. That is very poor evidence gathering technique. If evidence is contraray to your position, you should see how that would alter your position. I do not think one gas chamber killed millions, let alone at least one, so no failure there. "No gas chamber, no holocaust" is nonsense because there were gas chambers, you even accept that. What you really mean is that no gas chamber was to kill and so we are going to say that therefore no holocaust. But of course that is a non sequitur. You can have a homicidal gassing and no holocaust or no gassing and still have a holocaust.

You then quote me "I have proved that the Nazis can make gas chambers and that gas chambers can be used homicidally." but go to say "Here again, another absolutely nonsense from Nessie. First you did not prove anything like that only that you are not able to construct chamber. I proved it myself with showing real huge gas chambers which were not used for gassings and nobody claims it." That barely makes any sense. I have proven that lethal gassing can happen in any enclosed space with minimal equipment and effort (indeed in accidents no effort at all). I have shown and you agree Nazis are able and did make gas chambers. I have also shown you how to convert the room you linked to into a gas chamber. I have also shown you how what is left at Majdenak can be easily made into a homicidal gas chamber. Deny that all you want, it is all I can expect from a denier. But you dening it does not make it not true. Now if you could show evidence of how homicidal gassing in an enclosed space is not possibe and how the Nazis did not have the technology to do such I will listen.

The crux of the matter;

"1)Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber and tell me how was possible to gas peoples as holocaust narrative claims?"

There are two questions there. Firstly, no I cannot show you a Nazi homicidal gas chamber. But there is a very good reason for that. It is because there are none left which are as they were back when under Nazi control and in use during WWII. What that means is, it is wrong to then claim there were no homicidal gas chambers. That would be a non sequitur. What it means is other evidence is required to show if the Nazis did use gas for homicidal purposes. You go on to say "You believe that you are able to construct gas chamber, that you can make it, you said it, this means that you actually built some homicidal chamber? Where? Show it." So saying I can make a homicidal chamber means I have actually made one? Are you sure that is what you mean to say? It is of course nonsense and another non sequitur.

Secondly of course it was possible to gas people as Holocaust narrative claims. That is dealt with in a thread you have ignored here http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17778" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It shows how you prove that the Nazis did do what tge narrative claims as they had the motive, ability, guilty knowledge, intent, conduct after the crime, opportunity and preparation to commit the Holocaust.

Holocaust narrative claims people were rounded up, taken to camps, stripped of their possessions, gassed or shot and their remains disposed of by cremation. I know you deny the gassing, but do you deny the rounding up, the camps, the taking of possessions, the shootings and cremations? Do you see how this alone can be described as a Holocaust.

You said "Yes, I know, you said that they gassed thousands, when I pointed out this nonsense, you changed it to tens and hundreds of thousands, you said these things, but without evidence. In my country you would be prosecuted and sentenced for this." Yet I have read that the official figure for Majdanek has dropped from the initial Soviet claim of 1.5 million of which 400,000 were Jewish to 78,000 of which 59,000 were Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majdanek_c ... ation_camp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hence saying thousands rather than millions.

Finally, you said "Where do I criticise? Again invention, I only said that this fact is somehow unwelcomed by peoples like you, that´s all." But this looks very like criticism to me when you say "Peoples did not die, great, but these news are somehow unwelcomed by peoples like Nessie." It is also utter rubbish and no where can you show how me finding out fewer peopled died is unwelcome.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:12 pm

Another wave of absurdities adressed long time ago plus some new. Call it dodging if it help you to feel like "winner", no problem, but this is too much even for me, just neverending absurd story.
no I cannot show you a Nazi homicidal gas chamber.
You cant show it in any form, ok, good, I knew it.
Secondly of course it was possible to gas people as Holocaust narrative claims...
...In chamber you never saw and you are not able to show or describe, ridiculous absurdity and logical fallacy. I also guess you have no clue about what holocaust narrative claims.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:23 pm

Bob wrote:Another wave of absurdities adressed long time ago plus some new. Call it dodging if it help you to feel like "winner", no problem, but this is too much even for me, just neverending absurd story.

Are you going to produce any evidence or proper critique?
no I cannot show you a Nazi homicidal gas chamber.
You cant show it in any form, ok, good, I knew it.

But you cannot deal with explanation as to why that is or can you?
Secondly of course it was possible to gas people as Holocaust narrative claims...
...In chamber you never saw and you are not able to show or describe, ridiculous absurdity and logical fallacy. I also guess you have no clue about what holocaust narrative claims.

You reach that absurd conclusion by ignoring the images I have posted and what I have shown and described to you as to how a homicidal gas chamber can be made and would work.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:06 pm

Nessie wrote:Are you going to produce any evidence or proper critique?
Evidence for? Critique of what?
But you cannot deal with explanation as to why that is or can you?
I am dealing with the fact, that you can´t show it.
images I have posted and what I have shown and described to you as to how a homicidal gas chamber can be made and would work.
What images? I am not here to see how chamber can be made, I want to see chambers used for homicidal gassings by Nazis as holocaust narrative claims.

Chester
Account Locked
Posts: 347
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:08 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Chester » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:29 pm

A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?

ii.
In the massive volumes of WWII experts, no mention is made about Homicidal Gas Chambers, genocide or six million victims.
Why would Eisenhower, Churchill and de Gaulle neglect to mention these topics in over 7,000 pages?

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9950
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:09 am

Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?
Respect for the dead? Here is the sentence in context:
Elie Wiesel wrote: Meanwhile, our world contracted steadily. The country became a city, the city a street, the street a house, the house a room, the room a sealed cattle car, the cattle car a concrete cellar where...

No, let us go no further. Decency and custom forbid it. I said it earlier, when speaking of my grandfather: In Jewish tradition a man's death belongs to him alone. Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to the imagination. We will never know all that happened behind those doors of steel. They say the victims fought among themselves for a breath of air, for one more second of life, that they climbed on the shoulders of the weakest in the so called Todeskampf, the final struggle among the dying. Much has been said when silence ought to have prevailed. Let the dead speak for themselves, if they so choose. If not, may they be left in peace.
Why did you take that single sentence out of context, in which it has a completely different meaning?
Chester wrote: ii.
In the massive volumes of WWII experts, no mention is made about Homicidal Gas Chambers, genocide or six million victims.
Why would Eisenhower, Churchill and de Gaulle neglect to mention these topics in over 7,000 pages?
They didn't need to. They were writing their memoirs, not a history of the Holocaust.

Anyone who feels like doing an Internet search for those phrases should not be surprised to discover that they have been quoted at numerous sites. You'll figure it out for yourselves.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by David » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:31 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?
Respect for the dead? Here is the sentence in context:
Elie Wiesel wrote: Meanwhile, our world contracted steadily. The country became a city, the city a street, the street a house, the house a room, the room a sealed cattle car, the cattle car a concrete cellar where...

No, let us go no further. Decency and custom forbid it. I said it earlier, when speaking of my grandfather: In Jewish tradition a man's death belongs to him alone. Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to the imagination. We will never know all that happened behind those doors of steel. They say the victims fought among themselves for a breath of air, for one more second of life, that they climbed on the shoulders of the weakest in the so called Todeskampf, the final struggle among the dying. Much has been said when silence ought to have prevailed. Let the dead speak for themselves, if they so choose. If not, may they be left in peace.
Why did you take that single sentence out of context, in which it has a completely different meaning?

Chester quoted Wiesel spot on, Pyrrho. Or do you think that
"the Dead" will choose to speak up and let us all know unknown details
without some scientific investigation?

Clearly Wiesel doesn't want "prying eyes" and has come up with all sorts of reasons for Believers to keep their heads bowed in deepest respect for his goofy ugly inaccurate tales.
As an example, the doors of the Auschwitz morgues (alleged gas chambers) were not steel but wood. And the morgues themselves had only a single door.


Wiesel himself may or may not be little more than a fraud but he advocates harsh criminal penalties for blasphemers like me. He also advocates attacking Iran.

I prefer honest scientific research, free speech and peace.



David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by David » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:37 am

Pyrrho wrote:
Chester wrote: ii.
In the massive volumes of WWII experts, no mention is made about Homicidal Gas Chambers, genocide or six million victims.
Why would Eisenhower, Churchill and de Gaulle neglect to mention these topics in over 7,000 pages?
They didn't need to. They were writing their memoirs, not a history of the Holocaust.

Anyone who feels like doing an Internet search for those phrases should not be surprised to discover that they have been quoted at numerous sites. You'll figure it out for yourselves.

Good question Chester- One of the major justifications of the British declaration
of war on Germany became "the gas chambers." It is actually pretty amazing
that it was not mentioned by Churchill. In fact, I find it hard to believe.
Are you sure?

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:20 am

Pyrrho wrote:...
Do you have some explanation why Elie Wiesel, alleged survivor from Auschwitz-Birkenau, did not mention anything about gas chambers in his book Night (where he desribed experiences from Auschwitz-Birkenau) and why Germans treated him in hospital in this "extermination" camp where they operated his leg as he described?

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:13 pm

Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?

ii.
In the massive volumes of WWII experts, no mention is made about Homicidal Gas Chambers, genocide or six million victims.
Why would Eisenhower, Churchill and de Gaulle neglect to mention these topics in over 7,000 pages?

Having now read the quote in context thanks to Pyrrho, I read it as let us not dwell on the horror that happened in the gas chambers for the victims. I do not read it as lets not investigate what went on in general. I think that you have quoted out of context.

Regarding mentions of the Holocaust in war leader's memoirs, I think there was a degree of shame and hopelessness that they found difficult to deal with. The war leaders, as news of the Holocaust filtered back to them, decided that the baets way to liberate the victims of the camps was to win the war. No resources were diverted from the general war effort to specifically liberate the camps. That would be a horrible decision to make and one they would be understandably reluctant to dwell on. Remember Churchill hardly mentions the bombing by bomber command and Arthur Harris during WWII and he was not happy about the bombing to destruction of German cities. Indeed the pilots and aircrew were generally ignored after the war. So much so their memorial in Park Green in London is still not due to be completed until later this year. I would say that the Holocaust and the bombing of civilians were the two most terrible actions of WWII.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9950
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:36 pm

Bob wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:...
Do you have some explanation why Elie Wiesel, alleged survivor from Auschwitz-Birkenau, did not mention anything about gas chambers in his book Night (where he desribed experiences from Auschwitz-Birkenau) and why Germans treated him in hospital in this "extermination" camp where they operated his leg as he described?
He does refer to them, but not literally, when he describes the infamous selection of prisoners to the "left" and "right", the purpose of which was already well known, and describes the separation of himself from his mother and sisters. If the passage I quoted previously is any indication, one might speculate that Wiesel feels too deeply about what happened in the gas chambers to write of it directly, out of respect for the dead. Is respect for the dead too much to ask?

Who knows why the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau decided to give medical attention to some prisoners while sending others to die in gas chambers. Don't expect me to make sense of Nazi insanity. You should ask the Nazis why they did what they did, not those of us who weren't there. All we can discover is what they did and how they did it, as history clearly already shows.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9950
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:40 pm

David wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?
Respect for the dead? Here is the sentence in context:
Elie Wiesel wrote: Meanwhile, our world contracted steadily. The country became a city, the city a street, the street a house, the house a room, the room a sealed cattle car, the cattle car a concrete cellar where...

No, let us go no further. Decency and custom forbid it. I said it earlier, when speaking of my grandfather: In Jewish tradition a man's death belongs to him alone. Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to the imagination. We will never know all that happened behind those doors of steel. They say the victims fought among themselves for a breath of air, for one more second of life, that they climbed on the shoulders of the weakest in the so called Todeskampf, the final struggle among the dying. Much has been said when silence ought to have prevailed. Let the dead speak for themselves, if they so choose. If not, may they be left in peace.
Why did you take that single sentence out of context, in which it has a completely different meaning?
David wrote: Chester quoted Wiesel spot on, Pyrrho. Or do you think that
"the Dead" will choose to speak up and let us all know unknown details
without some scientific investigation?

Clearly Wiesel doesn't want "prying eyes" and has come up with all sorts of reasons for Believers to keep their heads bowed in deepest respect for his goofy ugly inaccurate tales.
As an example, the doors of the Auschwitz morgues (alleged gas chambers) were not steel but wood. And the morgues themselves had only a single door.


Wiesel himself may or may not be little more than a fraud but he advocates harsh criminal penalties for blasphemers like me. He also advocates attacking Iran.

I prefer honest scientific research, free speech and peace.
A prime example of why folks like you are rightly labeled as deniers, for you cherrypick things out of context and deny that the rest has any significance. Over the years here you've made it quite clear that you wouldn't know evidence if it bit you in the ass, much less legitimate scientific investigation.

But denial isn't your primary purpose; that's just the smoke screen.

Also, don't insult my intelligence. Your juvenile games are wasted on me, David. The difference between you and me is that I can actually think.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3074
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:42 pm

Auschwitz, as a general site with varous camps and sub camps on it fully explains how the Nazis were operating. Some were there to work, others were in prison and others there to die. As you say Pyrrho when quoting Wiesel, 'left' or 'right'.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by David » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:58 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
David wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?
Respect for the dead? Here is the sentence in context:
Elie Wiesel wrote: Meanwhile, our world contracted steadily. The country became a city, the city a street, the street a house, the house a room, the room a sealed cattle car, the cattle car a concrete cellar where...

No, let us go no further. Decency and custom forbid it. I said it earlier, when speaking of my grandfather: In Jewish tradition a man's death belongs to him alone. Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to the imagination. We will never know all that happened behind those doors of steel. They say the victims fought among themselves for a breath of air, for one more second of life, that they climbed on the shoulders of the weakest in the so called Todeskampf, the final struggle among the dying. Much has been said when silence ought to have prevailed. Let the dead speak for themselves, if they so choose. If not, may they be left in peace.
Why did you take that single sentence out of context, in which it has a completely different meaning?
David wrote: Chester quoted Wiesel spot on, Pyrrho. Or do you think that
"the Dead" will choose to speak up and let us all know unknown details
without some scientific investigation?

Clearly Wiesel doesn't want "prying eyes" and has come up with all sorts of reasons for Believers to keep their heads bowed in deepest respect for his goofy ugly inaccurate tales.
As an example, the doors of the Auschwitz morgues (alleged gas chambers) were not steel but wood. And the morgues themselves had only a single door.


Wiesel himself may or may not be little more than a fraud but he advocates harsh criminal penalties for blasphemers like me. He also advocates attacking Iran.

I prefer honest scientific research, free speech and peace.
A prime example of why folks like you are rightly labeled as deniers, for you cherrypick things out of context and deny that the rest has any significance. Over the years here you've made it quite clear that you wouldn't know evidence if it bit you in the ass, much less legitimate scientific investigation.

But denial isn't your primary purpose; that's just the smoke screen.

Also, don't insult my intelligence. Your juvenile games are wasted on me, David. The difference between you and me is that I can actually think.
I wouldn't call personal insults and off-topic rants "actual thinking," Pyrrho. Nor is making lame excuses. Chester asked a good question.
You flubbed an answer. Please don't take it out on me.