Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

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Bob
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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:45 pm

Pyrrho wrote:one might speculate that Wiesel feels too deeply about what happened in the gas chambers to write of it directly, out of respect for the dead. Is respect for the dead too much to ask?
Your explanation why he did not mention anything about gas chambers is "respect for the dead"? I don´t understand at all what are you trying to say with this. He mentioned burning peoples alive, he mentioned geysers of blood spourting from the ground in connection with Babi Yar etc. but for some reason not speaking about gas chamber is demonstration of the respect for dead?

He later began to mention gas chambers as showed here, this means that he stopped to respect the dead? Correct?

Your explanation does not make sense, sorry.
Who knows why the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau decided to give medical attention to some prisoners while sending others to die in gas chambers. Don't expect me to make sense of Nazi insanity. You should ask the Nazis why they did what they did, not those of us who weren't there. All we can discover is what they did and how they did it, as history clearly already shows.
In the other words you have no explanation simply because this is total nonsense which contradicts official narrative about extermination policy and you are afraid to explicitly say it.
All we can discover is what they did and how they did it, as history clearly already shows.
You are correct here, we have real proofs that they did it, they really treated prisoners in hospitals and provided them with medical care.

Maybe you can explain me at least the fact for what purpose they registered peoples under age of 10 or above age of 80 in this alleged extermination camp and why they wasted sources to keep them alive? According to narrative, childrens, old, sick, unable to work and etc. were gassed. Your explanation please?

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Pyrrho
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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:06 am

Bob wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:one might speculate that Wiesel feels too deeply about what happened in the gas chambers to write of it directly, out of respect for the dead. Is respect for the dead too much to ask?
Your explanation why he did not mention anything about gas chambers is "respect for the dead"? I don´t understand at all what are you trying to say with this.
Why am I not surprised that you are unable to grasp the concept. Elie Wiesel explains it clearly enough.
He mentioned burning peoples alive, he mentioned geysers of blood spourting from the ground in connection with Babi Yar etc. but for some reason not speaking about gas chamber is demonstration of the respect for dead?

He later began to mention gas chambers as showed here, this means that he stopped to respect the dead? Correct?

Your explanation does not make sense, sorry.
Disabuse yourself of the notion that it is possible for any explanation to make sense to you. You aren't here for explanations or honest discussion anyway. You're here to repeat standard-issue holocaust denier fallacies.
Who knows why the Nazis at Auschwitz-Birkenau decided to give medical attention to some prisoners while sending others to die in gas chambers. Don't expect me to make sense of Nazi insanity. You should ask the Nazis why they did what they did, not those of us who weren't there. All we can discover is what they did and how they did it, as history clearly already shows.
In the other words you have no explanation simply because this is total nonsense which contradicts official narrative about extermination policy and you are afraid to explicitly say it.
No, you're simply repeating the standard rhetorical tactics of holocaust deniers. Besides, I don't believe the myth of Nazi efficiency. That's the game here, isn't it? To believe that the Nazis wouldn't keep a Jewish prisoner alive while they were murdering others at Birkenau is to believe in the myth of Nazi efficiency, when in fact they were bumblers who applied brute force as a solution to everything.
All we can discover is what they did and how they did it, as history clearly already shows.
You are correct here, we have real proofs that they did it, they really treated prisoners in hospitals and provided them with medical care.

Maybe you can explain me at least the fact for what purpose they registered peoples under age of 10 or above age of 80 in this alleged extermination camp and why they wasted sources to keep them alive? According to narrative, childrens, old, sick, unable to work and etc. were gassed. Your explanation please?
What's to explain? They murdered millions while keeping a vast slave labor force alive to keep their disastrous war economy operating. They treated human beings like cattle: kill many to sell for food, keep the rest of the herd alive. They robbed them of their belongings--even pulled the teeth out of their heads--and packed it up for shipment to supply the economy they themselves had ruined.

Now, you explain to us why the Nazis imprisoned innocent people in the concentration camps, and why the Nazis built so many crematoria with such abundant capacity. Go on, tell us.
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Pyrrho
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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Pyrrho » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:15 am

David wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
David wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Chester wrote:A couple quick questions.

i.
In his autobiographical adventures at Auschwitz, Elie Wiesel said: “Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to imagination” (All Rivers Run to the Sea, Memoirs, New York, Random, 1995, p. 74).
Why would he say such a thing?
Respect for the dead? Here is the sentence in context:
Elie Wiesel wrote: Meanwhile, our world contracted steadily. The country became a city, the city a street, the street a house, the house a room, the room a sealed cattle car, the cattle car a concrete cellar where...

No, let us go no further. Decency and custom forbid it. I said it earlier, when speaking of my grandfather: In Jewish tradition a man's death belongs to him alone. Let the gas chambers remain closed to prying eyes, and to the imagination. We will never know all that happened behind those doors of steel. They say the victims fought among themselves for a breath of air, for one more second of life, that they climbed on the shoulders of the weakest in the so called Todeskampf, the final struggle among the dying. Much has been said when silence ought to have prevailed. Let the dead speak for themselves, if they so choose. If not, may they be left in peace.
Why did you take that single sentence out of context, in which it has a completely different meaning?
David wrote: Chester quoted Wiesel spot on, Pyrrho. Or do you think that
"the Dead" will choose to speak up and let us all know unknown details
without some scientific investigation?

Clearly Wiesel doesn't want "prying eyes" and has come up with all sorts of reasons for Believers to keep their heads bowed in deepest respect for his goofy ugly inaccurate tales.
As an example, the doors of the Auschwitz morgues (alleged gas chambers) were not steel but wood. And the morgues themselves had only a single door.


Wiesel himself may or may not be little more than a fraud but he advocates harsh criminal penalties for blasphemers like me. He also advocates attacking Iran.

I prefer honest scientific research, free speech and peace.
A prime example of why folks like you are rightly labeled as deniers, for you cherrypick things out of context and deny that the rest has any significance. Over the years here you've made it quite clear that you wouldn't know evidence if it bit you in the ass, much less legitimate scientific investigation.

But denial isn't your primary purpose; that's just the smoke screen.

Also, don't insult my intelligence. Your juvenile games are wasted on me, David. The difference between you and me is that I can actually think.
I wouldn't call personal insults and off-topic rants "actual thinking," Pyrrho. Nor is making lame excuses. Chester asked a good question.
You flubbed an answer. Please don't take it out on me.
No, you and Chester flubbed your responses, and you made the critical error of assuming that I could possibly fall for the cheap old holocaust denier trick of picking isolated elements out of a tremendous body of work and history and acting as if your own fake incredulity invalidates everything you don't like. Elie Wiesel is a living eyewitness, and it would suit your purposes to discredit him, a task at which you and other holocaust deniers have failed at miserably. At the last, one of you resorted to violence against him, and you have still failed.

You paid for the ticket, don't walk out on the show.
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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by David » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:23 am

Pyrrho wrote:
David wrote:
I wouldn't call personal insults and off-topic rants "actual thinking," Pyrrho. Nor is making lame excuses. Chester asked a good question.
You flubbed an answer. Please don't take it out on me.
No, you and Chester flubbed your responses, and you made the critical error of assuming that I could possibly fall for the cheap old holocaust denier trick of picking isolated elements out of a tremendous body of work and history and acting as if your own fake incredulity invalidates everything you don't like. Elie Wiesel is a living eyewitness, and it would suit your purposes to discredit him, a task at which you and other holocaust deniers have failed at miserably. At the last, one of you resorted to violence against him, and you have still failed.

You paid for the ticket, don't walk out on the show.
??? What are you talking about??

Anyway, Chester asked you another very good question- Want to keep pitching
your Believer Certified flubbed Explanations?


Your explanation why he did not mention anything about gas chambers is "respect for the dead"? I don´t understand at all what are you trying to say with this. He mentioned burning peoples alive, he mentioned geysers of blood spourting from the ground in connection with Babi Yar etc. but for some reason not speaking about gas chamber is demonstration of the respect for dead?

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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Chester » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:17 pm

Pyrrho asks:
". . . and why the Nazis built so many crematoria with such abundant capacity. Go on, tell us."


That's an easy one. The conditions at the camp caused annual typhus losses to exceed the capacity of the existing retorts. They tried burial. That didn't work because of water contamination. They tried burning pits.The pits didn't work because of water intrusion. They tried above ground pyres, then decided to calculate the expected deaths. These figures dictated the number of retorts. The Germans purchased crematory equipment already used in cities, towns and villages all over Europe. The death rate was of great importance. Their workforce needed to be healthy enough to work for the war effort. Additionally, J.C. Pressac was able to account for 95% of the Zyklon B as being used for healthful reasons. I understand the Germans also had traveling microwave delousing trucks. Could this fact be related to the stories of mobile gas vans?

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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:25 pm

Pyrrho wrote: Why am I not surprised that you are unable to grasp the concept. Elie Wiesel explains it clearly enough.
No as shown above.
Disabuse yourself of the notion that it is possible for any explanation to make sense to you. You aren't here for explanations or honest discussion anyway. You're here to repeat standard-issue holocaust denier fallacies.
You cant explain it, ok, I expected it.
No, you're simply repeating the standard rhetorical tactics of holocaust deniers. Besides, I don't believe the myth of Nazi efficiency. That's the game here, isn't it? To believe that the Nazis wouldn't keep a Jewish prisoner alive while they were murdering others at Birkenau is to believe in the myth of Nazi efficiency, when in fact they were bumblers who applied brute force as a solution to everything.
You cant explain it, ok, I expected it.
What's to explain?
This:

"for what purpose they registered peoples under age of 10 or above age of 80 in this alleged extermination camp and why they wasted sources to keep them alive?"

Dont miss it again please.
Now, you explain to us why the Nazis imprisoned innocent people in the concentration camps, and why the Nazis built so many crematoria with such abundant capacity. Go on, tell us.
For the same reason why for example USA imprisoned innocent peoples after attack on Peral Harbor? I think that they still do this, or not? They just imprisone everyone who is considered as danger without proofs or trial, correct?

Jews were simply danger to Germany and they considered them as enemy, do some basic reserach I also pointed out this many times here in forum. You also ignore that they imprisoned also criminals in these camps and not only "innocent peoples", this is simple trick and untrue to make an impression that camps were full of innocent peoples.

Do I agree with this? No I can only try to somehow understand it in context of that time and evidence, but all sides of conflict did this, there is no logical explanation why only Germans should be blamed for this, or do you have some explanation at least for this?

Same for Crematoria, they built them because of high mortality rate mainly during the worst epidemics, again do basic research. You also missed that propably not even one official exterminationist now claim that they planned Crematoria because of murdering, so your allusions that they built them for killing is refuted even by orthodox sources.

Can you tell what was the capacity of Crematoria when you used words "such abundant capacity"?

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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:34 pm

Here is one of the many examples which itself can be used to demonstrate how liars themselves exposed this lie about gassing.

Here is plan from Pressac, alleged gas chamber in Krema I
http://www.imagebam.com/image/7e7c6e178771724" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Red - marks the chamber used for gassings
Green - marks chamber after alteration when the Soviets or Poles demolished wall into the washroom and when they enlarged alleged chamber.
Blue - locations of alleged introduction openings for Zyklon B.
Purple - line dividing left and right half of gas chamber.

As can be seen in original condition used for alleged gassings, the openings are all located in total absurd position near the wall on the left. One of the openings is even located directly between the doors to oven room and washroom, no need to say how ridiculous this nonsense is. There are three openings in left half of the room, and one opening in the left part of the right half of the room and is almost in the middle of the room, simple nonsense and completely absurd placing. But because openings never existed in this alleged chamber as well, and they wrongly enlarged alleged chamber, they of course falsely chiseled alleged openings in locations which corresponds with their false dimensions of the room not used during alleged gassings, so they placed openings in this absurd order and they even claim that are in original locations based on original traces and as told by testimonies. :roll: They are false because are based on false dimensions, evidently not known in 1945-47 during these alterations.

What is more absurd, these false holes are confirmed as original and correct by Mazal team and their flawed report.

Of course, nobody is able to explain it.

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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Nessie » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:36 pm

With regards to the camps having such large crematoriums, why is it when you look at the internment camps built to house Japanese after Pearl Harbour do you find no crematoriums? Why was the death rate during internment much lower than at the Nazi camps? I can only find reports of deaths during internments with no figures, such were they so isolated.

The reason is that the Americans had no intention of killing off the Japanese and they respected them more as people than the Nazis ever did about the Jews. The Japanese could attack the US and had a mighty army to wage war across large parts of teh globe. The Jews had nothing like that, yet apparently they posed a great danger to Nazis. Rubbish, the Nazis hated the Jews and did not care about them or gypsies or the disabled or mentally ill and treated them far worse than the Americans treated the Japanese.
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Bob
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Re: Can you show me Nazi homicidal gas chamber?

Post by Bob » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:57 pm

Nessie wrote:With regards to the camps having such large crematoriums, why is it when you look at the internment camps built to house Japanese after Pearl Harbour do you find no crematoriums? Why was the death rate during internment much lower than at the Nazi camps? I can only find reports of deaths during internments with no figures, such were they so isolated.
Provide here figures, number of deaths in US camps for Japanese and so on because I am not skilled as you in this, thanks.

Note - you are again ridiculous in your claims, there was WW2 in USA? There were WW2 refugees trying to escape ongoing war? There were conditions resulted from ongoing WW2? You have incredible talent to compare incomparable and use it as "arugment". You do it again and again.

Why dont you compare comparable? For example US camps for Germans and the others after the war?

The rest is again nonsensical, and too much even for me.