Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Discussions
ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:27 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, what the check! Good job on yours, ryu. :-P
Welcome...I can't believe he missed that...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:32 am

ryu wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Yeah, what the check! Good job on yours, ryu. :-P
Welcome...I can't believe he missed that...
Typos happen all the time - and even overlooking them by those who know what is meant... :pardon:



(You barley got your pimples in check, eh? :-P)
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:35 am

But what about the SS Mädels of Treblinka II?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:39 am

Bob wrote:Checked this forum after long time, and this recent exchange is worth of comments on this board again.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: How did they get the gravel into the sliding side doors and keep from falling out of the cattle cars during loading?


Remember this is Eric Hunt's "insane fabrication". The same Eric Hunt who claims the gas chambers at Treblinka were dual purpose air-raid shelters and showers, despite there being no water for showers and that they had wooden roofs.

I think David and Eric must of swapped medication in the psych home to see who would end up the most crazy and they both won first prize.

:D
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the amazingly insane holocaust denier wrote:The question becomes how many of these trains were carrying gravel from the huge quarry and how many were carrying deportees.
So you and Eric think gravel can be loaded into and carried in a box car with a side opening door?

Were you both in the same psychiatric hospital?
1942 Reichsbahn

Hopper.jpgWorst attempt at lying by a holocaust denier.jpg
I somewhat apologize for making a serious reply to this clown, who is begging not to be taken seriously. But still . . .
It looks like that acc. to local exterminationists, passenger or box cars were used for transports, ok. Here we have a claim of a certain "clown" as "Statistical Mechanic" would put it, who regarding the issue of soil removed from alleged mass graves invoked the Soviet Report (MGK critique, p. 1264):

“The removal of sand from the camp by train is mentioned in the Soviet 65th Army report from August 1944: ‘Dozens of witnesses attest to have seen how up to three transports of Jews, with 60 cars each, arrived in the camp on a daily basis. The trains left the camp either loaded with sand or empty.’[142] Mattogno quotes this report in Treblinka, including this excerpt.[ 143] So Mattogno’s removed soil ‘problem’ comes across as rather artificial and even self-contradictory.”

A)Does such "clown" belongs to a psychiatric hospital and needs medication as suggested in this thread?

B)"Clown" made this claim in 2011, is thus true he was probably the first and only one (after Soviet comrades and their so called "dozens of witnesses") who suggested that passenger or box cars were somehow loaded with sand?

C)Do so called witnesses belong to the same psychiatric hospital, were they lying or were they mistaken and they actually saw freight cars loaded with sand from quarry whose existence and function is not disputed by anybody? (For instance, we have document for receiving freight cars loaded with sand MGK critique, p. 1264)

Simple questions, simple answers expected.
Matthew Ellard wrote:The same Eric Hunt who claims the gas chambers at Treblinka were dual purpose air-raid shelters and showers, despite there being no water for showers and that they had wooden roofs.
No water? Leaving aside that there must have been water to maintain function of the camp as is even logical, then AFAIK is an accepted fact, there was water in the form of underground water and wells. So false assertion.

Then we have Pressac who, basing his position on testimonies, proposed hypothesis which support revisionists and explain descriptions of equipment and activities incompatible with gassing theory (Treblinka..., p. 289):
“Only one Polish witness, Stanisaw Kosak,[896] has described the construction of the extermination camp Belzec from November 1941. There were three barracks built next to one another: the first served as a waiting room for the Jews, in the second they bathed and in the third they were gassed in three rooms. Railway cars making a circuit on a narrow-gauge track took care of transporting the bodies to a pit located at the edge of the camp. Kosak adds that three ovens connected with the water supply system were installed in the gas chambers.

In this homicidal installation two elements do not make sense: the baths (why should the deportees have been allowed to bathe before their gassing?) and the three ovens connected to water pipes (carbon monoxide of course was used for the killing).

For Treblinka, the witnesses described in different words exactly the same sequence: entry into the undressing room, then into the bath, after that into a room for testing asphyxiation gases, which was next to a furnace room, from whence the tracks led to a ‘cemetery.’ They mention the use of steam in the gas chambers. This ‘death-house’ has more bizarre aspects than that of Belzec: bath, steam, and ovens, whose purpose cannot have been that of incinerating the bodies, since these of course were buried in the ‘cemetery.’ A report of November 1942, which was sent to London, confirms that the suffocation chambers consisted of three rooms 4 × 4 m in dimension with a heating room, where there was a boiler for the production of steam, which was then conducted into the three chambers. These contradictions prove that the statements of the witnesses have not been ‘arranged,’ but rather correctly represent the words of the witnesses.

Instead of starting with the assumption of a facility for killing people, the hypothesis must be accepted that from the end of 1941 until mid-1942, three delousing facilities were established in Belzec, Sobibór, and Treblinka. The fact that places were chosen for this at a border, which had become obsolete, can be explained if one recalls the concepts of prophylactic hygiene and the battle against typhus by means of killing the insects carrying it, the lice, and if one considers that the Germans had typhus more or less under control in their zone of occupation, but not in the conquered Soviet territories. Thus, the program for the deportation of the Jews to the east, as decided upon at the Wannsee Conference of January 20, 1942, was adhered to by processing the deportees through these three hygiene facilities. That Belzec was established prior to the Wannsee Conference can be explained by the postponement of this conference or also by the possibility that the witness Kosak has given a false date for the establishment of the delousing facility.”
S much for "no water."
Ignoring Bob on how he confuses freight and passenger cars from a revisionist source...what hell do we do about debunking the water thing?

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:43 am

Nothing to debunk. There was water - but not enough to accommodate the showering etc. of the number of people who entered the camp.


AFAIK, there's also no evidence that any supplies to support an operation of such magnitude ever were sent or made it to Treblinka II or any of the other camps.
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:51 am

That was the exchange that led to some more posts, which prompted Bob finally to flee from the forum to the safety and comfort of Rodoh.
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:53 am

Thanks, I was just about to advise ryu to keep reading the responses to the posts he questions... :-P
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27639
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:53 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks, I was just about to advise ryu to keep reading the responses... :-P
Yeah, he should. It didn't go well for ole Bob . . .
. . . all right we are two nations . . .

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 28645
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks, I was just about to advise ryu to keep reading the responses... :-P
Yeah, he should. It didn't go well for ole Bob . . .
Seems he's joined a club or something. :-P
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Denying-History
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2170
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Denying-History » Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:26 am

ryu wrote:Ignoring Bob on how he confuses freight and passenger cars from a revisionist source...what hell do we do about debunking the water thing?
I'll give you a quick hint, it would be best to understand there things.

1) The T4 program uses water pipes as a tunnel for CO to enter a room... So don't let the name of the piping fool you.

2) The HC white paper covered the issue of the water source quite well... You can find it quite easily by clicking on PDF then doing control+F and typing in water piping.

3) keep reading the thread.

https://archive.org/details/BelzecSobib ... .ACritique
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks, I was just about to advise ryu to keep reading the responses... :-P
Yeah, he should. It didn't go well for ole Bob . . .
:lol: Bob... There really isn't much to say about him.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

User avatar
Jeff_36
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5226
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm
Location: At the hundredth meridian, where the great plains begin

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Jeff_36 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:54 am

ryu wrote:
Bob wrote:Checked this forum after long time, and this recent exchange is worth of comments on this board again.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote: How did they get the gravel into the sliding side doors and keep from falling out of the cattle cars during loading?


Remember this is Eric Hunt's "insane fabrication". The same Eric Hunt who claims the gas chambers at Treblinka were dual purpose air-raid shelters and showers, despite there being no water for showers and that they had wooden roofs.

I think David and Eric must of swapped medication in the psych home to see who would end up the most crazy and they both won first prize.

:D
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the amazingly insane holocaust denier wrote:The question becomes how many of these trains were carrying gravel from the huge quarry and how many were carrying deportees.
So you and Eric think gravel can be loaded into and carried in a box car with a side opening door?

Were you both in the same psychiatric hospital?
1942 Reichsbahn

Hopper.jpgWorst attempt at lying by a holocaust denier.jpg
I somewhat apologize for making a serious reply to this clown, who is begging not to be taken seriously. But still . . .
It looks like that acc. to local exterminationists, passenger or box cars were used for transports, ok. Here we have a claim of a certain "clown" as "Statistical Mechanic" would put it, who regarding the issue of soil removed from alleged mass graves invoked the Soviet Report (MGK critique, p. 1264):

“The removal of sand from the camp by train is mentioned in the Soviet 65th Army report from August 1944: ‘Dozens of witnesses attest to have seen how up to three transports of Jews, with 60 cars each, arrived in the camp on a daily basis. The trains left the camp either loaded with sand or empty.’[142] Mattogno quotes this report in Treblinka, including this excerpt.[ 143] So Mattogno’s removed soil ‘problem’ comes across as rather artificial and even self-contradictory.”

A)Does such "clown" belongs to a psychiatric hospital and needs medication as suggested in this thread?

B)"Clown" made this claim in 2011, is thus true he was probably the first and only one (after Soviet comrades and their so called "dozens of witnesses") who suggested that passenger or box cars were somehow loaded with sand?

C)Do so called witnesses belong to the same psychiatric hospital, were they lying or were they mistaken and they actually saw freight cars loaded with sand from quarry whose existence and function is not disputed by anybody? (For instance, we have document for receiving freight cars loaded with sand MGK critique, p. 1264)

Simple questions, simple answers expected.
Matthew Ellard wrote:The same Eric Hunt who claims the gas chambers at Treblinka were dual purpose air-raid shelters and showers, despite there being no water for showers and that they had wooden roofs.
No water? Leaving aside that there must have been water to maintain function of the camp as is even logical, then AFAIK is an accepted fact, there was water in the form of underground water and wells. So false assertion.

Then we have Pressac who, basing his position on testimonies, proposed hypothesis which support revisionists and explain descriptions of equipment and activities incompatible with gassing theory (Treblinka..., p. 289):
“Only one Polish witness, Stanisaw Kosak,[896] has described the construction of the extermination camp Belzec from November 1941. There were three barracks built next to one another: the first served as a waiting room for the Jews, in the second they bathed and in the third they were gassed in three rooms. Railway cars making a circuit on a narrow-gauge track took care of transporting the bodies to a pit located at the edge of the camp. Kosak adds that three ovens connected with the water supply system were installed in the gas chambers.

In this homicidal installation two elements do not make sense: the baths (why should the deportees have been allowed to bathe before their gassing?) and the three ovens connected to water pipes (carbon monoxide of course was used for the killing).

For Treblinka, the witnesses described in different words exactly the same sequence: entry into the undressing room, then into the bath, after that into a room for testing asphyxiation gases, which was next to a furnace room, from whence the tracks led to a ‘cemetery.’ They mention the use of steam in the gas chambers. This ‘death-house’ has more bizarre aspects than that of Belzec: bath, steam, and ovens, whose purpose cannot have been that of incinerating the bodies, since these of course were buried in the ‘cemetery.’ A report of November 1942, which was sent to London, confirms that the suffocation chambers consisted of three rooms 4 × 4 m in dimension with a heating room, where there was a boiler for the production of steam, which was then conducted into the three chambers. These contradictions prove that the statements of the witnesses have not been ‘arranged,’ but rather correctly represent the words of the witnesses.

Instead of starting with the assumption of a facility for killing people, the hypothesis must be accepted that from the end of 1941 until mid-1942, three delousing facilities were established in Belzec, Sobibór, and Treblinka. The fact that places were chosen for this at a border, which had become obsolete, can be explained if one recalls the concepts of prophylactic hygiene and the battle against typhus by means of killing the insects carrying it, the lice, and if one considers that the Germans had typhus more or less under control in their zone of occupation, but not in the conquered Soviet territories. Thus, the program for the deportation of the Jews to the east, as decided upon at the Wannsee Conference of January 20, 1942, was adhered to by processing the deportees through these three hygiene facilities. That Belzec was established prior to the Wannsee Conference can be explained by the postponement of this conference or also by the possibility that the witness Kosak has given a false date for the establishment of the delousing facility.”
S much for "no water."
Ignoring Bob on how he confuses freight and passenger cars from a revisionist source...what hell do we do about debunking the water thing?
Ryu, read my thread on Stanislaw Kozak. It is shocking how little that infantile pea-brained coward "Bob" actually knows.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:57 am

Ok. But next time please put a link.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:30 am

phpBB [video]
Bob wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bob the really stupid holocaust denier wrote:Ellard has no argument, so is limited to wannabe insults.
So "Bob". You can't explain where 180,000 litres came from to give a minimum of 6,000 victims showers.
As i said, yawn. You cannot expect that you will be taken seriously by your opponents when you are producing such rubbish in addition to your lying. Just look at it.

minimum of 6,000 victims - in reality, 713,555 deportees in 162 days (between July 23 - December 31 1942) means roughly 4,400 people on average.

15 litres per minute - Ellard´s strawman, nowhere I stated this and where our dilettante got his data is again a mystery. I clearly said "just a basic short wartime shower", hence no luxury as is obvious, it was just a transit camp, a middle point on their journey before reaching their destination where one can expect better hygienic procedures. If people showered for some 15 seconds, then using Ellard´s 15 liters we have 3,75 liters per deportee.

180,000 litres - again false, the number is 16,500 litres (4,400 x 3 ,75).

How many people died during the transport or stay in the camp is not known, but is logical that the numbers above should be lower taking this into account.

Your bad math and fictional numbers can impress your similarly incompetent fellows from your team, but not a serious person. Is of no surprise you have always dodged my comments.

Is it really amusing to see band of people arguing that extermination, extraction of gold, transport, burial/cremation of "6,000" victims was easily possible including large amount of water allegedly used for washing the chambers for every batch or for pouring up water on corpses to make them slippery and easier to drag, yet just simple shower of people was oh so impossible. :lol:

You guys cannot get your nonsenses straight, this is easy to understand, lies and nonsenses will never make sense.
No one really explained why these figures were wrong.

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:36 am

Hold on I am in error...you guys just took your sweet time while Bob mocked you. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17590&start=480#p425247

ryu
Poster
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:50 am

Re: The Treblinka Quarry--Missing!

Post by ryu » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:27 am

David wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Matthew, FYI, until David answers the questions asked of him, I'm not replying to his repetitious posts.

As to David's now admitting he's got nothing, David wrote earlier, telling us that he is working on faith,

Hello SM- You Believers are pretty funny...babbling about "Faith." :lol: :lol: You have it bassackwards!
You believe that 900,000 bodies magically disappeared!
You believe that the huge Quarry isn't there.

I don't have the train records but I have the facts.
the huge Treblinka Quarry exists
The Treblinka Labor Camp was set up to excavate building material and ship
it out from what became the huge Treblinka Quarry.
Here is a picture of part of the huge pit
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigpit.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Rail Spur was built to serve the Quarry
A rail spur was built to the huge Quarry and lots and lots of trains
and lots and lots of rail cars must have come and gone on the spur.
On the same spur a a short siding was added. That is where the Memorial
was placed.
All this can be seen in the aerial photographs and survey.
Aerial photograph of Treblinka Labor Camp
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic ... ourair.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Survey of rail spur and siding
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Aerial Photograph showing part of rail spur and the short siding.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap8.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, as far as I can make sense of the various babbling Believers here,
they are claiming that trains sent to the Treblinka Quarry siding had some
other way of being recorded in the rail records. What about detainees
being sent to the Labor Camp? How do they show up?

Anyway, back to the obvious question (for normal people)
How many train loads of building material were shipped from the Treblinka
Quarry? It must have been a very large number.


The obvious ques


I am left so confused at this...what is he talking about.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: The train tracks stopped at the Quarry

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:20 am

ryu wrote: I think Matt made a typo here and never fixed it
"That gravel was loaded into hoppers at Treblinka I labour camp, has nothing to do with boxcars and passenger trains sent to Treblinka I, a totally separate camp." Dude what the check.
Now let's review your complaint. You have made error, after error, after error and keep making those same exact errors, no matter how many time people inform you.

I made one typo and accidentally posted Treblinka "I" for Treblinka "II", although clearly stating it is the other camp to Treblinka I where the gravel was loaded up.

Instead of understanding my point, you have bogged down on my typo, You are as trivial in your complaints, as the holocaust deniers, themselves. :lol:

Go away