Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:14 am

Nessie wrote:Please prove that the photos linked to are of Treblinka II, particularly the one with the supposed zoo.
Good question. I am mainly relying on Believer claims.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:27 pm

David wrote:
Nessie wrote:Please prove that the photos linked to are of Treblinka II, particularly the one with the supposed zoo.
Good question. I am mainly relying on Believer claims.
It is also off topic and you ahve failed to prove that Treblink II was a transit camp as far more people arrived than left. That sounds more like an extermination camp to me as your evidence does not back up your claim,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_ ... ation_camp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so people were sent there in their thousands to be murdered by the Nazis.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:06 am

Nessie wrote:
David wrote:
Nessie wrote:Please prove that the photos linked to are of Treblinka II, particularly the one with the supposed zoo.
Good question. I am mainly relying on Believer claims.
It is also off topic and you ahve failed to prove that Treblink II was a transit camp as far more people arrived than left. That sounds more like an extermination camp to me as your evidence does not back up your claim,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_ ... ation_camp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so people were sent there in their thousands to be murdered by the Nazis.
You are starting the discussion accepting the Believer claim that
1 or 2 million people were sent to "Treblinka II," were killed,
and then their bodies were hidden.
So, sure, if you Believe that 1,000,000 went somewhere and
never came out...

There are no records of any trains to Treblinka II.
There never were any mass graves found
despite extensive searches by Soviets, Poles and Revisionists.
(a new Believer claim just popped up Jan, 2012)

There are records of the labor camp at Treblinka I.
There was also a huge quarry.
So there was "normal" train traffic of the quarry spur.

From the records not many people were sent to Treblinka II.

What was found at the site was the normal garbage that
we would expect to be found at a temporary holding area
prior to going to Malkinia Camp.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:31 am

I'm going to address all the arguments in one post, as I am working for a couple weeks, but David's memory is just getting riduculous.....
David wrote:There are no records of any trains to Treblinka II.
Malkinia was located on the main Warsaw-Bialystok rail line. Treblinka I and Treblinka II were spurs off from Malkinia. David is forgetting (on purpose) that the Germans built the railway line from Treblinka I to Treblinka II. David is also forgetting (on purpose)that Zabecki was at Treblinka I and not Malkiinia and his records of trains going to Treblinka II are stored in Seildce in Poland where he can go look at them. Not only that, but the eyewitnesses at Treblinka II on the trains sent Treblinka II such as Stanislaw Kon and Abraham Goldfarb.
"When we arrived in Treblinka and the Germans opened the freight cars we beheld a horrible sight........On the way to the gas chambers Germans with dogs stood along the fence on both sides......"
David wrote:There never were any mass graves found despite extensive searches by Soviets, Poles and Revisionists.
David is forgetting (on purpose) that not only did Justice Lukaszkiewicz photograph himself in a mass grave he excavated at Treblinka but we have the eyewitnesses who dug the actual graves at Treblinka such as Abraham Krzepicki.
"The graves remained open through the night and the next day more bodies were piled into them"
David is pretending to forget (on purpose) that the bodies were removed from mass graves and cremated to hide the evidence under Sonder Aktion 1005. Yankel Wienik, was an eyewitness slave worker who actually burnt the bodies with his team and gave evidence.
Here is the commander of Treblinka confirming this, Kurt Franz
"It was during that period that the original camp was demolished. Everything was leveled off and lupins were planted..."
David wrote:From the records not many people were sent to Treblinka II.
Not only does the Hofle telegram specifically say “Treblinka” as part of the Aktion Reinhardt camps but it identifies 713,555 people (including children). David is pretending (on purpose) that 713,555 people, including children) were sent to Treblinka I labour camp (3,000 workers).

Last year David said Treblinka II was a camp where soviet munitions were reprocessed as David just makes stuff up on the spot.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:41 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I'm going to address all the arguments in one post, as I am working for a couple weeks, but David's memory is just getting riduculous.....
David wrote:There are no records of any trains to Treblinka II.
Malkinia was located on the main Warsaw-Bialystok rail line. Treblinka I and Treblinka II were spurs off from Malkinia. David is forgetting (on purpose) that the Germans built the railway line from Treblinka I to Treblinka II. David is also forgetting (on purpose)that Zabecki was at Treblinka I and not Malkiinia and his records of trains going to Treblinka II are stored in Seildce in Poland where he can go look at them. Not only that, but the eyewitnesses at Treblinka II on the trains sent Treblinka II such as Stanislaw Kon and Abraham Goldfarb.
"When we arrived in Treblinka and the Germans opened the freight cars we beheld a horrible sight........On the way to the gas chambers Germans with dogs stood along the fence on both sides......" [/color]


No, Treblinka I and Treblinka II were on the SAME spur, along
with the huge Quarry. It is the Quarry spur. About 10,000 people weretransported to Treblinka I. It was a labor camp.
The Quarry Spur was not "off of Malkinia." The Quarry Spur was a few
km.s south of Malkinia.

Trains would have been routed to Malkinia.
Trains would have been routed to Treblinka labor camp
Trains would have been routed to and from the Quarry.

There are no records of trains going to Treblinka II.

And, yes, there is a handful of "eye witnesses" who claim that
thousands of unregistered trains arrived at Treblinka II


David wrote:There never were any mass graves found despite extensive searches by Soviets, Poles and Revisionists.
David is forgetting (on purpose) that not only did Justice Lukaszkiewicz photograph himself in a mass grave he excavated at Treblinka .

Oh? And what does Lukaszkiewicz write?
""During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned,"http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html


Yes, there are people who claim there were vast mass graves.
But Polish and Soviet investigators have never been able to find one.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:24 am

David wrote:And, yes, there is a handful of "eye witnesses" who claim that
thousands of unregistered trains arrived at Treblinka II
Thank you David. so you agree with me about the 70 Treblinka eyewitnesses. However you forgot that Zabecki kept the notifications of the registered trains arriving. (You pretended to forget that didn't you?)
David wrote:"During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned,"http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html
That's right David. The Polish investigation found the empty mass graves and excavated one and photographed it. The bodies were removed in 1943 by the Germans. The graves were empty exactly as the eyewitnesses said they would be. Did you forget this on purpose again?

Bad luck. Caroline Colls found a huge 17m x 26m empty mass grave and five very large pits in a row. So much for your "transit camp" theory. Go away.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:37 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:And, yes, there is a handful of "eye witnesses" who claim that
thousands of unregistered trains arrived at Treblinka II
Thank you David. so you agree with me about the 70 Treblinka eyewitnesses. However you forgot that Zabecki kept the notifications of the registered trains arriving. (You pretended to forget that didn't you?)
?? so your source of 1,000,000 people going
to Treblinka II is " '10,000 on a Train' Zabecki?"
But didn't Zabecki claim,
"The number of people killed in Treblinka was 1,200.000, and there is no doubt about it whatsoever?"
So, how many people do YOU claim were shipped to Treblinka II?


Looks like you have dropped your claim of train records.
And you lie that Treblinka II was on a separate spur.


David wrote:"During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned,"http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html

That's right David. The Polish investigation found the empty mass graves and excavated one and photographed it. The bodies were removed in 1943 by the Germans. The graves were empty exactly as the eyewitnesses said they would be. Did you forget this on purpose again?

Oh...EMPTY mass graves...I see. If that is the best you can do...
And, you are "confused" about " exactly as the eyewitnesses said they would be."
To quote The Polish Report...
The excavations began at the location described by the witness Rajzman on November 6, where the so-called ‘camp hospital’ had stood and where, according to the witness, a mass grave is supposed to exist....
At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gee, another Lie exposed.



Bad luck. Caroline Colls found a huge 17m x 26m empty mass grave and five very large pits in a row. So much for your "transit camp" theory. Go away
.


Another "empty mass grave?" What is that supposed to mean?

If Ms. Colls might have found evidence of a mass grave
as announced January 2012 then there is a new and different bit of evidence
which contradicts all your Gruppen 1005 BS.

Right now there were no records of people being shipped to Treblinka II.
This makes sense because there was no Treblinka II destination.

Malkenia was the transit camp where people were shipped.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:45 am

That does not match in with evidence given by Bob in post #4

“From August 6, 1942, until further notice, a special train with resettlers is running from Warsaw Danz BF [Danzig railway station] to Treblinka and running empty as follows […]”The departure of one train per day was scheduled: “1/. P Kr 9085 / 9.30 / Warsaw Danz Bf – Malkinia – Treblinka,” with departure at 12:25 PM, arrival at 4:20 PM, and return “2/. Ln Kr 9086 / 11.30 / Treblinka – Malkinia – Warsaw Danz Bf” with departure at 7:00 PM and arrival at 11:19 PM."

Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz, Dumjahn, Munich 1981, pp. 178f.

Albert Ganzenmüller, Secretary of State in the Reichsverkehrsministerium (Ministry of Transport) and Deputy General Director of the German Reichsbahn (National Railway), report to SS-Gruppenführer Wolff on July 28, 1942:

“Since July 22, a train with 5,000 Jews makes a daily trip from Warsaw to Treblinka via Makinia, in addition to a train with 5,000 Jews traveling twice a week from Przemysl to Belzec.”

Ibid., p. 177.

August 13 1942, Wolff to Ganzenmüller:

“I have noted with especial pleasure your report that a train with 5,000 members of the Chosen People has already been running for 14 days to Treblinka every day, and we are thus indeed in a position to carry out this movement of population at an accelerated tempo.”

Ibid., p. 181.

April 11, 1962, Wolff for the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial.

“At the time I did not connect the notion of a mass extermination camp with the name of Treblinka. I assumed it was a Jewish reservation [sic], as Himmler had explained it to me.”

State Office of Prosecution at the Frankfurt (Main) District Court criminal proceedings against Baer and others at the Frankfurt Court of Assizes, Ref. 4 Js 444/59 vol. 65, pp. 12, 100."
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:37 am

Nessie wrote:That does not match in with evidence given by Bob in post #4

“From August 6, 1942, until further notice, a special train with resettlers is running from Warsaw Danz BF [Danzig railway station] to Treblinka and running empty as follows […]”The departure of one train per day was scheduled: “1/. P Kr 9085 / 9.30 / Warsaw Danz Bf – Malkinia – Treblinka,” with departure at 12:25 PM, arrival at 4:20 PM, and return “2/. Ln Kr 9086 / 11.30 / Treblinka – Malkinia – Warsaw Danz Bf” with departure at 7:00 PM and arrival at 11:19 PM."

Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz, Dumjahn, Munich 1981, pp. 178f.

Albert Ganzenmüller, Secretary of State in the Reichsverkehrsministerium (Ministry of Transport) and Deputy General Director of the German Reichsbahn (National Railway), report to SS-Gruppenführer Wolff on July 28, 1942:

Hello Nessie- I am sorry if I were unclear. By document, I meant normal
railway records, not letters or court transcripts. One document which
has a train shuttling back and forth between Warsaw, through Malkinia
to Treblinka does not distinguish between Treblinka labor camp, the town of Treblinka,
and Treblinka II.
Nizkor writes- There are very few railway documents in the archives or institutes, and the copy below comes from the Reich Traffic Directorate in Minsk
which noted on it in ink: "We are not involved." Soviet authorities
found the document and transmitted a copy, with several other finds
from Minsk station, to West Germany.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/ftp. ... -0143-0243" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, what the Soviets produced is a "big picture document" which lists a
string of transports.
What is missing are the actual records relating to the operation of the
rail system. That would be timetables, records of engines, box cars, crews,
signals of changes in schedules, breakdowns, etc.
Not one such document has been found.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:18 am

David wrote:Hello Nessie- I am sorry if I were unclear. By document, I meant normal railway records,
You know like the telexes and notices Zabecki received as Station Master at Treblinka, that he handed to the Polish authorities after the war, that David is pretending don't exist.
David wrote:Not one such document has been found.
Apart from the thousands of train records that have been found, filed, kept and used as evidence and are ready for David to view at Seildce!

David, stop making stuff up. You are pretending that trains never went to Treblinka II although the Station Master at Treblinka both saw them and kept the documentation.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:47 pm

I am still waiting for the answers to the following questions

"I am not convinced Treblinka is a transit camp as all you can show is a far larger number of people arriving, for example the Hofle Telegram 713,555 arrivals by the end of 1942, but people leaving only 308, 356, 180 and some individual cases in 1943 and after the war in 1965 a vague report of several thousand said to have left Treblinka.

- How many hospitals were at Treblinka?

- If there were hospitals there, how many Jews were cared for there?

- How many Jews died at Treblinka?

- Of those deaths, what did they die from?

- Although there are reports of Jews being asked to bring food and some food being provided, is it enough to feed, say 713,555 people?"

Note we have 713,555 arrivals in by 1942 and approximately 850 leaving to other camps in 1943. So the big smoking gun question - where are the others to prove Treblinka II was a transit camp?
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:25 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Hello Nessie- I am sorry if I were unclear. By document, I meant normal railway records,
You know like the telexes and notices Zabecki received as Station Master at Treblinka, that he handed to the Polish authorities after the war, that David is pretending don't exist.
David wrote:Not one such document has been found.
Apart from the thousands of train records that have been found, filed, kept and used as evidence and are ready for David to view at Seildce!

David, stop making stuff up. You are pretending that trains never went to Treblinka II although the Station Master at Treblinka both saw them and kept the documentation.

You are as giddy as usual, Matt.
I am quoting Nizkor which writes,
"Nizkor writes- There are very few railway documents in the archives or institutes,
Now you are claiming that there are thousands of of train records
relating to Treblinka "used as evidence" in "Seildce" [sic]
No other Believer seems to know about them.
Which is typical of most of your "evidence."
So, you are claiming that Nizkor is wrong about Treblinka II train records?

As for your faith in Zabecki: it has already been shown that he
was a mere 500,000 victims off at best....Nothing for a fanatic Believer to overlook. And his claims of trains with 10,000 people in them are absurd.


But it is even better since:

"The nearest railway station Treblinka (after which the camp was named) is 4 km. away. p.96 http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpoltreb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zabecki was 4 km away from the camp while he was counting the
10s of thousand's of victims.
Some witness you've got their Matt. :lol: :lol:

So, trains coming from the Main Line to the North would have never
been near Zabecki





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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:50 am

Nessie wrote:I am still waiting for the answers to the following questions

"I am not convinced Treblinka is a transit camp as all you can show is a far larger number of people arriving, for example the Hofle Telegram 713,555 arrivals by the end of 1942, but people leaving only 308, 356, 180 and some individual cases in 1943 and after the war in 1965 a vague report of several thousand said to have left Treblinka.

The point is that 713,555 people did NOT arrive arrived at Treblinka
II. I am coming from the direction that the remains of "only" a few thousand
people were found, including the deaths at the Treblinka I camp.

I have been to Treblinka I and II and the huge quarry. I know that the tales
of acres of human bones or shoes is totally bogus.

I think that Matt is not correct with his unusual claim that there ARE
thousands of train records relating to Treblinka II.
I think that the evidence of mass arrivals is almost exclusively
"testimony " like
"During the last 11 months of its existence the Treblinka camp administration recorded the exact number of deportees brought in and the exact amount of goods sent out. The number of Jews were: From Germany, about 120,000; from Austria, 40,000; from Poland, 1,500,000; from Czechoslovakia, 100,000; from Bulgaria, 14,000; from Russia, 1,000,000; total, 2,774,000.

Samuel Rajzman is one of the very few survivors of the Treblinka death camp - he was lucky enough to escape. The testimony he gave, more than 60 years ago, is still important to understand the enormity of the crimes committed in that death camp and in the Final Solution.
http://www.holocaust-history.org/operat ... inka.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quite simply, there is a huge exaggeration of numbers.





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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:52 am

David wrote: I am quoting Nizkor which writes,
"Nizkor writes- There are very few railway documents in the archives or institutes,
So what? I was quoting Zabecki who handed the Treblinka rail documents and his own logs to the Polish Commission. He was the station master at Treblinka.
David wrote:As for your faith in Zabecki: it has already been shown that he
was a mere 500,000 victims off at best
You idiot! The Hofle Telegram (713,555 people) is only up to 30Dec42. Zabecki was station master to the end of the war. (Nice attempt at mixing up dates David, but no banana for you). Bob tried this when he said Kurt Franz only saw two trains arriving at Treblinka II at once compared to other eyewitnesses. Bob left out the bit that Kurt Franz was only commanding officer near the end of Treblinka II and not there when the high volume executions were happening.
David wrote: "The nearest railway station Treblinka (after which the camp was named) is 4 km. away. p.96 http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpoltreb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Zabecki was 4 km away from the camp while he was counting the
10s of thousand's of victims.
You idiot. Zebecki confirms other eyewitnesses that the trains stopped at Treblinka staton, where Zabecki worked and were shunted in groups of twenty into Treblinka II.

Twenty wagons were uncoupled from the train, and a shunting engine began to push them along the spur-line into the camp. A short while later it returned empty. This procedure was repeated twice more, until all sixty wagons had been shunted into the camp, and out again

Can you please at least try and read some real history before making stuff up.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: I am quoting Nizkor which writes,
"Nizkor writes- There are very few railway documents in the archives or institutes,
So what? I was quoting Zabecki who handed the Treblinka rail documents and his own logs to the Polish Commission. He was the station master at Treblinka.


David wrote:As for your faith in Zabecki: it has already been shown that he
was a mere 500,000 victims off at best
You idiot! The Hofle Telegram (713,555 people) is only up to 30Dec42. Zabecki was station master to the end of the war. (Nice attempt at mixing up dates David, but no banana for you). Bob tried this when he said Kurt Franz only saw two trains arriving at Treblinka II at once compared to other eyewitnesses. Bob left out the bit that Kurt Franz was only commanding officer near the end of Treblinka II and not there when the high volume executions were happening.

What are you babbling about?
Why don't you just tell us how many people you claim were killed
at Treblinka II. I had assumed you believed in the 800,000 figure.



David wrote: "The nearest railway station Treblinka (after which the camp was named) is 4 km. away. p.96 http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpoltreb1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Zabecki was 4 km away from the camp while he was counting the
10s of thousand's of victims.
You idiot. Zebecki confirms other eyewitnesses that the trains stopped at Treblinka staton, where Zabecki worked and were shunted in groups of twenty into Treblinka II.

Oh, I see. Your tale is based on the idea that all those trains coming from the north went past the Quarry/Treblinka I and II Spur and went on another 4 km. Of Course, that makes lots of sense. The
Germans wanted to make sure the Top Secret Trains stopped in a few towns
first. :lol: :lol:

Rather than parrot 2 or 3 absurd and contradictory tales.
Look at the map.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most of the overflow transports would come from Malkinia from the
right. You are claiming that they went on another 4 km.s to the town of Treblinka
and uncoupled groups of 20 cars (leaving 40 cars where?) and then
went back north to the Quarry Spur.
Why? Care to think about your stupid tale in light of reality?




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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:23 am

Lots of argument over arrivals, but what about people leaving? To prove Treblinka II was a transit camp, I want to see the people who arrived leave again. So far, that has not been evidenced in anything like significant numbers.

Why spend so much time and effort trying to remove the site of a transit camp from the face of the earth?

How long did people stay at the camp before they were moved on?

This report http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in its chapter on deportations is mixing up the camps and not fully differentiating between them

"The generally-accepted story is that Treblinka II was a "pure" extermination center, from which no Jew was permitted to leave alive. (note 44) However, credible reports of deportations of Jews from Treblinka refute the allegation that all Jews sent there were destined for extermination, and indicate instead that the camp functioned as a transit center."

So workers were moved on from Treblinka the work camp and not Treblinka II the death camp. That deliberate mixing of the two camps happens again in the next paragraph

"In the aftermath of the April 1943 Warsaw ghetto uprising, for example, Jews were transported from Warsaw to Treblinka II. As some of the deportees later confirmed, after a "selection" in the camp, trainloads of hundreds of Jews were taken from Treblinka to Lublin (Majdanek), and possibly other camps. (note 45) Several thousand Jews (at least) were transferred by German authorities from Treblinka to other camps, a postwar German court determined."

So prove any Jew left Treblinka II and do not try and mix that up with Treblinka I.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:20 pm

[quote="Nessie"]Lots of argument over arrivals, but what about people leaving? To prove Treblinka II was a transit camp, I want to see the people who arrived leave again. So far, that has not been evidenced in anything like significant numbers.

Fair question but if the area at Treblinka II were only an
overflow area when the facilities at Malkinia were full there would not be any
record. Or, the record would be tied in with activities at Malkinia.


Why spend so much time and effort trying to remove the site of a transit camp from the face of the earth?
The Germans actually did not spend much time trying to
remove "evidence." as an example-
-Quote-
Photo of ruined bakery also shows stables - taken by Russian forces summer 1944
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... lfing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See also The railroad gate at Treblinka ibid.

The photographs also show fences, remains of various other buildings,
and the Poles later found large garbage pits...

"In the course of this work numerous Polish, as well as Russian, German, Austrian, and Czech coins as well as broken pieces of various kinds of containers were discovered. At the end of the work, at approximately 3 pm, at a depth of 6 meters, we encountered a layer which had not been reached previously. There were no human remains found."
and
The work was continued, with 36 workers assigned who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone. It consists partly of all sorts of kitchen utensils and different kinds of household objects; there are also pieces of clothing.
and
During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins: Polish, German, Russian, Belgian, and even American. After we had made certain that this pit, filled with broken pieces of the containers mentioned, ran in a north-south direction on the grounds of the camp area.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Germans also left cremated human remains of about 1,300 people.

And, of course, the left the rail spur and the roads entirely intact.

In short, the commonly promoted Tale that the Germans tried to totally obliterate "Treblinka II" is obviously false.




How long did people stay at the camp before they were moved on?

hours

This report http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in its chapter on deportations is mixing up the camps and not fully differentiating between them

"The generally-accepted story is that Treblinka II was a "pure" extermination center, from which no Jew was permitted to leave alive. (note 44) However, credible reports of deportations of Jews from Treblinka refute the allegation that all Jews sent there were destined for extermination, and indicate instead that the camp functioned as a transit center."

So workers were moved on from Treblinka the work camp and not Treblinka II the death camp. That deliberate mixing of the two camps happens again in the next paragraph
|I would tend to agree. About 10,000 detainees were
released or transfered out of Treblinka I. And 20,000 were shipped in by the way.The Museum of Struggle and Martyrdom at Treblinka website the source for this
information.

So rail traffic to and from Treblinka I was significant.
There was also significant traffic from the Quarry operation.

All this traffic went right by the site called Treblinka II.


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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:09 pm

Please evidence this claim. " ...if the area at Treblinka II were only an overflow area when the facilities at Malkinia were full there would not be any record. Or, the record would be tied in with activities at Malkinia." and explain your justification for making such an assumption that Treblinka II was an overflow area.

Regarding removing signs of the camp, what you describe is what I would still call an attempt to obliterate the camp. Inoccuous buildings like a bakery were left, human remains wer carefull disposed of as we are still missing many thousands who are recorded as arriving and no evidence that they left. Bear in mind in October 1943 when the camp stopped, only one month earlier, having correctly blamed the Katyn Massacre on the Soviets the Nazis were faced with this.....

"When, in September 1943, Goebbels was informed that the German army had to withdraw from the Katyn area, he wrote a prediction in his diary. His entry for 29 September 1943 reads: "Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us."[46]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Goebbles was correct. So there was huge incentive to at least get rid of the bodies as best as possible. Coins and such could be written off to a transit camp, but best try and hide that as well.

Please evidence your claim people only stayed hours at the camp before they were moved on. And I mean Treblinka II, not one, so lets be clear on that.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:04 am

Nessie wrote:Please evidence this claim. " ...if the area at Treblinka II were only an overflow area when the facilities at Malkinia were full there would not be any record. Or, the record would be tied in with activities at Malkinia." and explain your justification for making such an assumption that Treblinka II was an overflow area.

Malkinia was at the junction of the Polish and Russian railways. It seems to have been a major transit stop.
However, it was ignored by Soviet investigators and is ignored by Believers...all thrown into the Memory Hole.

What is call Treblinka II was mainly a large field with a small fence around it,
a well, a little display of animals, and some minor buildings.
What was found there by the Poles in 1945 was consistent with
a minor stop...a collection of garbage, containers, and one
personal identity card. One card! Was it saved? Were the Polish
documents saved?
What the Poles avoid mentioning is the amount of garbage found.
They avoid giving any specific figures for anything...the number
of bomb craters, the amount of documents, the number of skulls (seems
to be 12 or less all of adults) Why NOT?
The Polish Report is probably the worst investigation every written.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. ... linka.html

Read the Report.







Regarding removing signs of the camp, what you describe is what I would still call an attempt to obliterate the camp. Inoccuous buildings like a bakery were left, human remains wer carefull disposed of as we are still missing many thousands who are recorded as arriving and no evidence that they left.
Oh, and their bodies magically disappeared?
You are missing the fact that lots of human remains were found
by the Russians and the Poles....hard to tell from the vague reports
but around 1,300. Shy leave 1,300 bodies but carefully and
totally dispose of 800,000?
As the Soviet photos show...the location, gate, paths, roads, rail siding,
fences, and buildings are all left.
What was "missing" and what was NOT found were the mass graves
and the alleged Stone Temple like "Steam Chambers."
The tale that 800,000 - 2,000,000 people were killed at Treblinka II
is only supported by stories. It is contradicted by all the physical evidence at
the site. Except now, in January 2012 we have the new BBC report
claiming to have finally found a mass grave.






Bear in mind in October 1943 when the camp stopped, only one month earlier, having correctly blamed the Katyn Massacre on the Soviets the Nazis were faced with this.....

"When, in September 1943, Goebbels was informed that the German army had to withdraw from the Katyn area, he wrote a prediction in his diary. His entry for 29 September 1943 reads: "Unfortunately we have had to give up Katyn. The Bolsheviks undoubtedly will soon 'find' that we shot 12,000 Polish officers. That episode is one that is going to cause us quite a little trouble in the future. The Soviets are undoubtedly going to make it their business to discover as many mass graves as possible and then blame it on us."[46]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Goebbles was correct. So there was huge incentive to at least get rid of the bodies as best as possible. Coins and such could be written off to a transit camp, but best try and hide that as well.

Please evidence your claim people only stayed hours at the camp before they were moved on. And I mean Treblinka II, not one, so lets be clear on that.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:22 am

You have made this claim of Treblinka II being an innocent place with a small fence and a zoo and even shown some random pictures, but I need a lot more evidence to show that to be true. The link is broken.

What about your claim that people only stayed for a hour?

Show me what Malkinia has to do with the reported deaths of tens of thousands in gas chambers at Treblinka II.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:42 am

Nessie wrote:You have made this claim of Treblinka II being an innocent place with a small fence and a zoo and even shown some random pictures, but I need a lot more evidence to show that to be true. The link is broken.

What about your claim that people only stayed for a hour?

Show me what Malkinia has to do with the reported deaths of tens of thousands in gas chambers at Treblinka II.
There was lots of physical evidence left at the Stop of the Quarry Spur.
However the Soviets and the Poles did their best to obfuscate what
was really at the scene in August 1944. What we do know seems to
contradict much of the "eye witness" testimony.
All the building that were at the site in August 1944 have been destroyed, along
with fences, paths and roadways. The standard story is that
the Germans obliterated the camp to "hide" their crime. In fact, it was the Soviets and the Poles who destroy huge amounts of evidence after Liberation.



Likewise, the role of Malkinia is in opposition to the alleged role of Treblinka II.
It seems Malkinia was a transit camp. The more active it was, the less there
was a need for an extermination camp 6 miles to the south.
I am not sure when the "understudied" camp of Malkinia was built by the
Germans and how the date ties in to the construction of the siding off the
Quarry Spur. No one has bothered to do research.

So, yes, my explanations are not complete but there are many holes in
the standard story which are contradicted by real physical evidnce

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:27 pm

Please show me evidence that people only remaied at Treblinka II for an hour as you claimed.

Please show evidence that the Poles and Soviets destroyed huge amounts of evidence as you claim.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:43 pm

Nessie wrote:
Please show evidence that the Poles and Soviets destroyed huge amounts of evidence as you claim.

??? You agree that the rail spur, the siding, the roads, paths, fences, Bakery building,
the Stable building, the pits with garbage, and one or two pits with human remains
mixed with sand were all THERE in August 1944. Right?

And they are not there now. Right?


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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:53 pm

Please cite evidence the Poles and Soviets are responsible rather than making an assumption.

For the third time, pleasee cite evidence people were only at Treblinka II for an hour as you claim.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:44 am

Nessie wrote:Please cite evidence the Poles and Soviets are responsible rather than making an assumption.
res ipsa loquitur.
Can you think of any other people in control of the area after August 1944?
It is a solid enough conjecture to merit an idea as to why the Soviets
destroyed the evidence.


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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:48 pm

So no evidence for your claim about people only being at Treblink II for a hour and conjecture as opposed to evidence about who destroyed evidence.

That is a poor show from you and quite a drop in the standards that you demand of others here.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:21 am

Nessie wrote:So no evidence for your claim about people only being at Treblink II for a hour and conjecture as opposed to evidence about who destroyed evidence.

That is a poor show from you and quite a drop in the standards that you demand of others here.

Considering that hundreds of millions have been spent trying to prove
the Ugly Myth and have failed in anything other than a propaganda victory,
I don't feel too bad, Nessie. Slowly we Revisionist are uncovering the
facts that Believers have hidden...like the importance of Malkinia Transit Camp.

But, what is more interesting is how you can ignore the fact
that all that evidence that the Germans left was obliterated by the Soviets and
Poles. It happened. Why?

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:21 am

Nessie wrote:So no evidence for your claim about people only being at Treblink II for a hour and conjecture as opposed to evidence about who destroyed evidence.

That is a poor show from you and quite a drop in the standards that you demand of others here.
Quoting myself David so you have another chance to evidence your claims about how long people were at Treblinka II and that the Soviets and Poles destroyed evidence.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Holocaust denial websites are sure Treblinka II was only a transit camp. But they can only do that by skirting around the issue of where did many Jews end up once they had left Treblinka II.

An Inconvenient History in this article about disposal of bodies by burning

http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/arch ... blinka.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"There only remains the conclusion that a small percentage of the Jewish deportees died en route to the camp and that the remainder where sent somewhere else, most of them likely to occupied USSR territory"

The IHR in this article about Treblinka II

http://ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"However, credible reports of deportations of Jews from Treblinka refute the allegation that all Jews sent there were destined for extermination, and indicate instead that the camp functioned as a transit center." But it offers no evidence nor numbers that that happened, it is only a conclusion.

In the aftermath of the April 1943 Warsaw ghetto uprising, for example, Jews were transported from Warsaw to Treblinka II. As some of the deportees later confirmed, after a "selection" in the camp, trainloads of hundreds of Jews were taken from Treblinka to Lublin (Majdanek), and possibly other camps. (note 45) Several thousand Jews (at least) were transferred by German authorities from Treblinka to other camps, a postwar German court determined."

But which camps exactly are we talking about, Treblinka I or II. That article mixes them up and gives not numbers or evidence of people transferred.

An article in CODOH about Treblinka and Malkinia

http://www.codoh.com/found/fndtreb.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claims "The Malkinia camp was probably a transit camp for further transport to Eastern settlements." but offers no evidence to back that up.

The report by Carlo Mattogno and Jürgen Graf

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/08-t.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chapter IX Transit Camp Treblinka, like the IHR, it is not clear which camp it is referring to. It also fails to show anything other than limited transfers from Treblinka, again failing to say exactly which camp it refers to.

It also opens its conclusion on page 293 with "The fate of the Jews deported to the east is one of those questions for which there is no sure answer, due to the lack of documents".

All of these reports still expect us to believe Treblinka II was a transit camp. But they confuse Treblinka I with II. They admit they cannot prove for certain people left Treblinka II. They happily state Malkinia was a transit camp, but provide little to no evidence of that. So was Treblinka II a transit camp next to another transit camp at Malkinia? If so why? It all seems very odd.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:34 pm

Nessie wrote:Holocaust denial websites are sure Treblinka II was only a transit camp. But they can only do that by skirting around the issue of where did many Jews end up once they had left Treblinka II.

[snip]
It also opens its conclusion on page 293 with "The fate of the Jews deported to the east is one of those questions for which there is no sure answer, due to the lack of documents".

All of these reports still expect us to believe Treblinka II was a transit camp. But they confuse Treblinka I with II. They admit they cannot prove for certain people left Treblinka II. They happily state Malkinia was a transit camp, but provide little to no evidence of that. So was Treblinka II a transit camp next to another transit camp at Malkinia? If so why? It all seems very odd.
Hello Nessie-
The are quite a few very odd things going on, the least of which is
our incomplete understanding of the relationship between Malkinia and
what is now called Treblinka II.

There has been no research done on Malkinia by Believers. It's existence has been thrown into the Memory Hole

"If one consults the Informator enzycklopedyczny of the 'Main Commission for the Investigation of the Hitler Crimes in Poland,' in which all camps and prisons on Polish soil during the German occupation are listed, one finds no camp of either kind under the heading of Malkinia.[890] But on the air photo of May 15, one clearly recognizes a camp there, along the road to Ostroleka, which quite remarkably runs through this camp and about 5 km from Treblinka. Its function is not known.[891]
http://www.codoh.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 15&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


However it seems to have been fairly important.-
"Malkinia Junction was the end of the line for the eastern railway line (Ostbahn) because there were no railroad bridges across the Bug river into the Polish territory that had been a part of Russia between 1772 and 1917. If the Nazis had been planning to get rid of the Jews with a program of “transportation to the East,” as they claimed, they would need to stop at the Bug river before continuing on to the East.

When train tracks were built in Russia in 1842, they were “broad gauge” or 1524 mm. (5 feet wide). Train tracks in Western Europe were based on the “standard gauge” or 4 ft. 8 1/2 inches. Western railroad cars could not run on the broad gauge tracks on the eastern side of the Bug river."
http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/ ... a-stopped/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And we have records of large groups of Jews comming from Malkinia

"According to Danuta Czech, on December 10, 1942, a transport with 2,500 persons, from which 524 men were registered with the numbers 81,400 to 81,923, arrived in Auschwitz from the transit camp Malkinia. The remaining 1,976 are supposed to have been gassed. On December 12 of the same year, again according to Danuta Czech, a transport from the transit camp Malkinia also arrived in Auschwitz with 2,000 Polish Jews, of whom 416 men, with the numbers 82,047 to 82,462, and six women, with the numbers 26,800 to 26,805, became part of the regular camp population; this time, too, Danuta Czech claims that the rest were gassed.

See discussion and pictures at
http://www.codoh.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 15&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So at least 4, 500 Polish Jews were transported from Malkinia to Auschwitz...
allegedly to be murdered....hmm. Malkinia is 6 km. from Treblinka II?
That's an Odd story, Nessie!

So, what also seems odd is
1. The Soviet/|Polish destruction of evidence at the Treblinka II site-
2. The consignment of a significant transit camp to the Memory Hole.

My belief is that what is called Treblinka II was an overflow location
for Malkinia.
That means that there would not be any records of trains to or from
Treblinka II except as it relates to overflow from Malkinia.
What do I base my theory on?
1. A good piece of evidence is the design of the Quarry Spur.

It obviously was meant to allow trains from Malkinia to back onto the Spur.
See
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Malkinia is to the right off of the photograph

2. From the German and Soviet photographs we know that Treblinka II was mainly
a large field surrounded by a small unelectrified wire fence There was a small
display of animals and a well and a few small buildings.

See- http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/photos.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. What we are to make of the collection of garbage and containers found by Soviet and Polish investigators in three or four pits?
Really depends on the amount found. Since neither the garbage nor the "documents"
were preserved by the Soviets and neither the Soviets nor the Poles give an idea of the volumn in their respective "reports"
Seems to have been part of a pit of documents and two or three others of
garbage. Not a vast amount particularly if the nearby Camp was included.

So, I guestifigure that a small amount of garbage was found.
4. And, as mention no records either to or from Treblinka II

All this indicates an overflow location, not a destination..

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:48 am

I dont see why you are so annoyed about Malkinia. No one appears to have said it was a death camp. It was most likely a transit camp or according to the post at CODOH maybe a POW camp.

The thread is about proving Treblinka II was a transit camp and from your post David and the other revisionist sites I have linked to there is no evidence to support that, only assumptions from people who have decided it was not a death camp so it must be a transit camp instead.

The admission is clearly that there is no proof it was a tranist camp.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:53 pm

Nessie wrote:I dont see why you are so annoyed about Malkinia. No one appears to have said it was a death camp. It was most likely a transit camp or according to the post at CODOH maybe a POW camp.

The thread is about proving Treblinka II was a transit camp and from your post David and the other revisionist sites I have linked to there is no evidence to support that, only assumptions from people who have decided it was not a death camp so it must be a transit camp instead.

The admission is clearly that there is no proof it was a tranist camp.
I am not annoyed about Malkinia. I do think that it was an important
transit camp and its existence has been thrown into the Memory Hole.

And I agree with you that I don't have any proof (yet) that Treblinka II
was a transit location other than the "strong indications" listed above.
Obviously a quantification of the amount of garbage found by the Soviets
or Poles would give us a good idea of what happened at the spot.

If you understand my point, you will see that "camp" is too strong a word
for what Treblinka II was. I think it was an "Overflow waiting area."

That is also why there is no evidence of what the camp really was.
It was not much.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:25 pm

I took your annoyance from the Memory Hole phrase you use, as in the believers try to ignore it? As with Malkinia there does appear to be a number of transit camps and no one denies Jews and others were transited from roundups in places such as France (I was watching a TV programme about Kurt Lischka last night) or ghettos or even camps to other camps or ghettos.

If Malkinia was a transit camp that could not cope with the numbers (which needs proving) then why not make it bigger? There was plenty of space to do that.

With regards to the items the Poles and Soviets found at Treblinka II, that also fits in with people arriving being stripped of all their possessions and the valuable stuff being taken away by the Nazis, especially when the camp was to be cleared. That to me suggests the end of the line, or else is there evidence transit camps were places where property was taken, such as at Malkinia?
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:41 pm

Nessie wrote:I took your annoyance from the Memory Hole phrase you use, as in the believers try to ignore it? As with Malkinia there does appear to be a number of transit camps and no one denies Jews and others were transited from roundups in places such as France (I was watching a TV programme about Kurt Lischka last night) or ghettos or even camps to other camps or ghettos.
Except that Malkinia was a transfer point for moving people East and it was connected with Treblinka


If Malkinia was a transit camp that could not cope with the numbers (which needs proving) then why not make it bigger? There was plenty of space to do that.

I am not sure how much space there was around Malkinia.
nor how often it was backed up.

With regards to the items the Poles and Soviets found at Treblinka II, that also fits in with people arriving being stripped of all their possessions and the valuable stuff being taken away by the Nazis, especially when the camp was to be cleared. That to me suggests the end of the line, or else is there evidence transit camps were places where property was taken, such as at Malkinia?
Pretty much depends on how much garbage was found.
I am particularly thinking of identity cards. Not needed if the people
were scragged.
During the course of the excavations, numerous more or less badly damaged Polish documents were discovered, further a badly damaged personal identity card of a German Jew, as well as several more coins
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... linka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But the Poles reported finding 1 One Uno identity card when (if Treblinka II were really the end of the line) there should have been hundreds of thousands.

What happened to the documents the Soviets and Poles found?
Were and where were they saved?
Why report the finding of one card?

Would you agree that there are a few hundred thousand "missing" Id. documents?


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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Of course a potential reason why only one ID card was found at Treblinka II is because all perosn who got there were stripped killed and their property destroyed, as was much of the camp itself.

I have been looking but cannot find much as so often when Treblinka id referred to you do not know which one, but it struck me if Treblinka II is a death camp and Malkinia a transit camp, then that could be evidenced by the presence of human remains. I cannot find any evidence of graves at Malkinia, but there is evidence of such at Treblinka II. So why have two transit camps and only one where there are human remains?
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:33 am

Nessie wrote:Of course a potential reason why only one ID card was found at Treblinka II is because all perosn who got there were stripped killed and their property destroyed, as was much of the camp itself.
Except some large amount of documents was easily found
and there was no mention of burnt documents.

Doesn't it interest you that the documents were NOT preserved either by the
Soviets or the Poles?



I have been looking but cannot find much as so often when Treblinka id referred to you do not know which one, but it struck me if Treblinka II is a death camp and Malkinia a transit camp, then that could be evidenced by the presence of human remains. I cannot find any evidence of graves at Malkinia, but there is evidence of such at Treblinka II. So why have two transit camps and only one where there are human remains?
Malkinia was on a major route and at the connection between the Russian and
German track system. It seems to have been a significant transit stop.
It was in a town.

Treblinka II was 6 miles south of Malkinia right off a minor rail line.
On the Quarry Spur there was the labor camp of Treblinka. People died at
the labor camp.

Look at the aerial photograph.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the pictures of SS personal riding horses and jogging I would guess that there
was facility in the area for R&R.

Also from the photographs we know the Treblinka II area was an open area, surrounded by a non-electrified fence, surrounded by scattered woods.
That all means it was very low security.

So, to answer your question. Bodies would not have been buried in a town.
They would have been transported to a nearby area out of town.
They would probably been buried with the dead of the nearby labor camp.

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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:25 pm

Right, so no bodies at Malkinia, further showing it was a transit camp. But bodies at both Treblinka camps I and II, but to what extent and in what condition?

Did the work camp have bodies buried in marked grave areas that were left undisturbed, as you would expect if there had be epidiemic or period of starvation especially towards the end of the war?
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:15 pm

Nessie wrote:Right, so no bodies at Malkinia, further showing it was a transit camp. But bodies at both Treblinka camps I and II, but to what extent and in what condition?

Did the work camp have bodies buried in marked grave areas that were left undisturbed, as you would expect if there had be epidiemic or period of starvation especially towards the end of the war?
I am not sure that lack of bodies shows it was a transit camp.
It is more a result of being in an urban area.

The best and worst of reports on bodies at Treblinka I and II was the Soviet
Report. It seems accurate in finding and exhuming 12 -14 graves with a
few hundred bodies in them....It is the worst with its finding that 100,000's bodies were converted into "cinders" and the "cinders" were used to pave the roads...
Which was the Report's explanation for the lack of mass graves.
I have to run but I will try to get you the cites.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:20 pm

I am talking about relative numbers of bodies. At a transit camp there will be deaths, especially as it was people died on the trains. But there will be fewer deaths than say at work camps with disease etc, hence the need for mortuaries and crematoriums at the work camps. Then the alleged death camps, used purely to kill will have logically the most bodies to dispose of.

So prove Treblinka II had less human remains at its site than Malkinia or even Treblinka II and you have very good evidence it was not a death camp.

I can see the big problem here though, which is the actual destruction of remains. If only the Nazis had given people decent burials in marked graves they could have shown how many died and what of.
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Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:04 pm

Nessie wrote:I am talking about relative numbers of bodies. At a transit camp there will be deaths, especially as it was people died on the trains. But there will be fewer deaths than say at work camps with disease etc, hence the need for mortuaries and crematoriums at the work camps. Then the alleged death camps, used purely to kill will have logically the most bodies to dispose of.

So prove Treblinka II had less human remains at its site than Malkinia or even Treblinka II and you have very good evidence it was not a death camp.

I can see the big problem here though, which is the actual destruction of remains. If only the Nazis had given people decent burials in marked graves they could have shown how many died and what of.
Hello Nessie- The original propaganda story was that the Germans buried millions
of people in mass graves at Treblinka II, or Auschwitz, or Majdanek.
As an example, at the Liberation of Majdanek, the press was told that
at least 400,000 bodies were buried around the Camp.
Same with Treblinka.
But then the Soviet investigators could only find the remains of a couple of
thousand bodies. That is when the Story were invented to
"explain" the missing millions of bodies.
That is when the story of a fertilizer factory at Majdanek was created and
the tales of using cremated Jews to pave roads at Treblinka was floated.

In fact, the Germans did have very complete records showing the number of
dead and the cause of death. An example is the Death Books of Auschwitz
released a few years ago.

See http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p265_Weber.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;