Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Discussions
User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:21 pm

Prove to me that Treblinka II was a transit camp please.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:30 pm

lol. i was going to make a thread something like this, i see what youre up to. i really doubt bob will play when the rules aren't in his favour...

thanks

rich

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:32 pm

Quick Overview.
Most holocaust deniers will assume Treblinka II is a transit camp based on this paper.
Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The paper is worthless, does not include facts like the hofle telegram and shoots itself in the foot with this hilarious conclusion "Above all, it is entirely unclear where the Jews deported to Treblinka ultimately wound up"

The authors stopped writing. One of the authors, Jurgen Graf then went on the run from Swiss authorities and worked for the Ahmadinejad government in Iran translating propaganda.

The only academic and most famous holocaust denier, David Irving, recanted in 2003 and now agrees that the Action Reinhard camps (ie Treblinka) were indeed mass execution camps.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:44 am

This is very easy, here one of the major document, Korherr report.
“The evacuation, at least as far as the Reich territory is concerned, replaced the emigration of the Jews. It was prepared on a large scale after the prohibition of Jewish emigration in the autumn of 1941 and largely implemented in the total Reich territory in 1942. In the balance of the Jewish presence it appears as ‘migration.’ According to the figures of RSHA, the migrations were as follows up to 1 Jan. 1943:

From the Altreich including Sudetenland: 100,516 Jews
from Ostmark 47,555 Jews
from the Protectorate 69,677 Jews
Total 217,748 Jews

These figures comprise also the Jews evacuated to the old-age ghetto at Theresienstadt. All moves combined, the following figures apply to the Reich territory including the eastern territories, as well as the German sphere of power and influence in Europe for the period between October 1939 and 31 Dec. 1942:

1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden and Palatinate [regions] to France: 6,504 Jews
2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich territory including the Protectorate and Bialystok district to the east: 170,642 Jews
3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich territory and the Protectorate to Theresienstadt: 87,193 Jews
4. Transport of Jews from the Eastern provinces to the Russian East: 1,449,692 Jews
Processed through the camps in the General Government area: 1,274,166 Jews
Through the camps in the Warthegau: 145,302 Jews.
5. Evacuations of Jews from other countries, viz.:
France (occupied before 10. Nov. 1942) 41,911 Jews
Netherlands 38,571 Jews
Belgium 16,886 Jews
Norway 532 Jews
Slovakia 56,691 Jews
Croatia 4,927 Jews
Evacuation, total (incl. Theresienstadt and incl. special treatment) 1,873,549 Jews
without Theresienstadt 1,786,356 Jews

According to information from RSHA, the evacuation of 633,300 Jews from the Russian territories including the former Baltic states since the beginning of the eastern campaign must be taken into account. Not included in the above figures are the detainees in the ghettos and the concentration camps.”

NO-5194, pp. 9f.
More from report
http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/korherr_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Report use Hofle Telegram figures, Jews were processed through camps in General Gouvernment - Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec, all camps near border of General Gouvernment.

http://www.worldwar02.com/wp-content/up ... ps-map.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Report also speak about releases from camps and from alleged extermination or gassing camps, some 36,943 releases.
“From August 6, 1942, until further notice, a special train with resettlers is running from Warsaw Danz BF [Danzig railway station] to Treblinka and running empty as follows […]”The departure of one train per day was scheduled: “1/. P Kr 9085 / 9.30 / Warsaw Danz Bf – Malkinia – Treblinka,” with departure at 12:25 PM, arrival at 4:20 PM, and return “2/. Ln Kr 9086 / 11.30 / Treblinka – Malkinia – Warsaw Danz Bf” with departure at 7:00 PM and arrival at 11:19 PM."

Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz, Dumjahn, Munich 1981, pp. 178f.

Albert Ganzenmüller, Secretary of State in the Reichsverkehrsministerium (Ministry of Transport) and Deputy General Director of the German Reichsbahn (National Railway), report to SS-Gruppenführer Wolff on July 28, 1942:

“Since July 22, a train with 5,000 Jews makes a daily trip from Warsaw to Treblinka via Makinia, in addition to a train with 5,000 Jews traveling twice a week from Przemysl to Belzec.”


Ibid., p. 177.

August 13 1942, Wolff to Ganzenmüller:

“I have noted with especial pleasure your report that a train with 5,000 members of the Chosen People has already been running for 14 days to Treblinka every day, and we are thus indeed in a position to carry out this movement of population at an accelerated tempo.”

Ibid., p. 181.

April 11, 1962, Wolff for the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial.

“At the time I did not connect the notion of a mass extermination camp with the name of Treblinka. I assumed it was a Jewish reservation [sic], as Himmler had explained it to me.”

State Office of Prosecution at the Frankfurt (Main) District Court criminal proceedings against Baer and others at the Frankfurt Court of Assizes, Ref. 4 Js 444/59 vol. 65, pp. 12, 100.
Yes, even high ranking officer didn´t know anything about some extermination and considered it as resettlement.
“The first large resettlement action took place in the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942. In this action 310,322 Jews were removed.”

Stroop Report PS-1061. IMT, vol. XXVI, pp. 634f.
“Disclosures and Conditions for the Jewish Council July 22, 1943”:
“All Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”

“[…] all Jewish persons who, on the first day of the evacuation, are in one of the Jewish hospitals and unable to be discharged. Whether a patient is able to be released is to be determined by a physician to be selected by the Jewish Council.”

“Each Jewish resettler is allowed to bring along 15 kg of his property as baggage for the trip. All valuables: gold, jewelry, money, etc., can be taken along. A food supply for 3 days should be brought along.”

Faschismus – Getto – Massenmord. Dokumentation über Ausrottung und Widerstand der Juden in Polen während des zweiten Weltkriegs, Röderberg Verlag, Frankfurt/Main 1960, p. 305.
Jewish Council July 22, 1942
“By order of the German authorities all Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”

Ibid., p. 110.

Jewish Council July 24, 1942

“As a result of incorrect information, which is circulating in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw in connection with the evacuation, the Jewish Council in Warsaw was given permission by the authorities to announce that the evacuation of the populace not productively active in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw will, in fact, occur.”

Ibid., p. 115.

July 29, 1942, the director of the Jewish Ordnungsdienst(constabulary):

“I am hereby announcing that all persons who will be resettled according to the instruction of the authorities will voluntarily report for the journey on the 29th, 30th, and 31st of July of this year, will receive 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam. Place of assembly for distribution of the products – Stawikiplatz at the Wildstraße corner.”

Ibid., p. 309.

The German authorities were providing 180,000 kg of bread and 36,000 kg of jam for the volunteers.

“Likwidacja Zydowskiej Warszawy,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego, Warsaw, January-June 1951, no. 1, pp. 59-126. p. 80.

“For the Polish ghettos are not the last stage in the forced eastward migration of the Jewish people. On 20 November 1941, the Governor General, Hans Frank, broadcast the information that the Polish Jews would ultimatelybe transferred further east. Since the summer of 1942 the ghettos and labour camps in the German-occupied Eastern Territories have become the destination of deportees both from Poland and from western and central Europe; in particular, a new large-scale transfer from the Warsaw ghetto has been reported. Many of the deportees have been sent to the labour camps on the Russian front; others to work in the marshes of Pinsk, or to the ghettos of the Baltic countries, Bielorussia and Ukraine.”

Eugene M. Kulischer, The Displacement of Population in Europe, International Labour Office, Montreal 1943. pp. 110f.
Some examples of deported from alleged extermination camp:
Samuel Zylbersztajn transferred to Majdanek April 30, 1943 in transport together with 308 Jews.

Samuel Zylbersztajn, “Pamietnik wi eznia dziesieciu obozów,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu
Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. April 30, 1943, the date of deportation to Treblinka.

Accordin to his memoirs “The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps.” he survived extermination camp Majdanek, Treblinka and eight concentration camps.
356 Jews were transferred from Treblinka to Majdanek on May 13, 1943.

T. Mencel (ed.), Majdanek 1941-1944, Wydawnictwo Lubelskie, Lublin 1991, p. 448.

“Some of the transports from Warsaw reached Lublin by way of Treblinka, where the selection of the deportees took place.”

Tatiana Berenstein, Adam Rutkowski, “Zydzi w obozie koncentracijnym Majdanek (1941-
1944),” Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, No. 58, 1966, p. 16.
Interrogations from Demjanjuk files
December 12, 1979: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka. On the next day he was transferred to Majdanek, where he spent 6-7 days; afterward he went to Budzyn for approximately a year. From Budzyn he was sent to Wieliczka (in the vicinity of Krakow), from there to Flossenbürg in mid-1944, and finally to Leitmeritz.

December 17, 1979: the witness was deported from Krakow to Plaszów, and from there to Auschwitz. After that he went to Oranienburg and finally to Flossenbürg. He stated that he spent a single day in Treblinka without giving details.

March 7, 1980: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka, where he stayed for only one day; then he was transferred along with 180 other prisoners to Majdanek. After two days his trip continued to Budzyn, where he spent two years. He was liberated by the Soviets from an unnamed German concentration camp.

March 11, 1980: the witness was sent to Treblinka in April 1943, where he spent only a day. Transfer to Majdanek, thence to Budzyn, where he was interned for about a year. Liberated on May 5, 1945, from Mauthausen.

U.S. Department of Justice. Criminal Division. Office of Investigation. Report of Investigation. Subject “Demjanjuk Ivan, Fedorenko Feodor.” These protocols were enclosed with the documents in the Jerusalem Demjanjuk Trial (State of Israel vs. Ivan [John] Demjanjuk. Criminal Case No. 373/86 in the Jerusalem District Court; cf. Chapter V).


Court of Assizes of Düsseldorf on September 3, 1965
[
i]
“several thousand people from Treblinka are said to have arrived at other camps.”[/i]

Adalbert Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager im Spiegel deutscher Strafprozesse, German version, Frankfurt 1977., p. 198.
Düsseldorf Court of Assizes of 1965, Germans told this to Jews
“Attention Warsaw Jews! You are in transit camp here, from which further transport to a labor camp will occur. For the prevention of epidemics, clothing as well as articles of baggage are to be handed over for disinfection. Gold, money, foreign currency, and jewelry are to be surrendered in exchange for a receipt at the counter. They will be returned later, upon presentation of the receipt. All those arriving have to bathe for bodily cleanliness before traveling
on.”


Ibid., p. 219.

Informacja biezaca of August 17, 1942:

“the camp was at a strength of 40,000 Jews on August 5"

Krystyna Marczewska, Wladyslaw Wazniewski, “Treblinka w swietle Akt Delegatury Rzadu RP na Kraji” (Treblinka in Light of the Documents of the Home Government Delegation of the Polish Republic) in: Biuletyn Glównej Komisji Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce, vol. XIX, Warsaw 1968, pp. 129-164., pp. 136f.
So 40,000 Jews were accomodated in camp according to this source, but this same source of course later state, that they were gassed in "the gas-and oven chambers”, but how they arrive to this is not known, no gas ovens according to narrative.

Another evidence inderectly associated with Treblinka since Treblinka was part of Aktion Reindhard(t) so it means that is associated with Belzec and Sobibor too, I will show only some thing, there is lof of it.

Talk between Fritz Reuter and Hans Hofle (Hoffle telegram) from March 16 and written to note on March 17, 1942
“I arranged for a talk with Hstuf. Höfle for Monday, the 16th of March 1942, namely at 17:30 hours. In the course of the discussion the following was explained by Hstuf. Höfle: It would be expedient to divide the transports of Jews to the Lublin district into employable and unemployable Jews at the station of origin. If it is not possible to make this distinction at the station of origin, it will be necessary for the division of the transport into unemployables and unemployables to be done at Lublin. Unemployable Jews are all to come to Bezec [Belzec], the outermost border station in the Zamosz district. Hstuf. Höfle is thinking of building a large camp, in which the employable Jews can be registered in a file system according to their occupations and requested from there. Piaski is being made Jew-free and will be the collection point for the Jews coming out of the Reich. Trawnicki [Trawniki] for the present time is quartering no Jews. H. asks where on the Dblin-Trawnicki route 60,000 Jews can be unloaded. Informed about the Jewish transports now running as far as we are concerned, H. explained that of the 500 Jews arriving in Susiec, those who were unemployable could be sorted out and sent to Bezec. According to a teletype of the government of March 4, 1942, a Jewish transport, whose destination was the Trawnicki station, is rolling out of the Protectorate. These Jews are not unloaded in Trawnicki, but have been brought to Izbica. An inquiry of the Zamosz district, asking to be able to request 200 Jews from there for work, was answered in the affirmative by H. In conclusion he stated that he could accept 4-5 transports daily, of 1,000 Jews with the destination station of Bezec. These Jews would go across the border and would never come back into the General Gouvernement.”

Józef Kermisz, Dokumenty i Materialy do dziejów okupacji niemieckiej w Polsce, Tom II, “Akce” i “Wysiedlenia,” Warsaw-Lodz-Krakow 1946, p. 10.pp. 32f.
Parisian Jews deported to Eastern territories and not to extermination camps according to orthodox narrative.


“Thank you! A news item that will delight all Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Which of us does not have a brother, a sister, or relatives among those deported from Paris? And who will not feel profound joy when he thinks about the fact that 8,000 Parisian Jews have been rescued from death by the glorious Red Army! One of them told Radio Moscow how he had been saved from death, and likewise 8,000 other Parisian Jews. They were all in the Ukraine when the last Soviet offensive began, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country. But since they knew what fate was in store for them and since they had"

La presse antiraciste sous l’occupation hitlérienne. Foreword by A. Raisky, Paris 1950, p. 179.
Another document which prove that Treblinka was transit camp as Sobibor or Belzec since all of them are part of one operation, Aktion Reinhard(t)
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”

Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
Of course, there are mentions of killing, for example Stroop report of Warsaw ghetto uprising which mention liquidation of local combatants and bandits, but nothing is camouflaged, he plainly speak about killings which were
supposedly done in T II.

So everything speaks about evacuations, resettlements, resettlers, moved, processed through Durchgangslager, moved East, Germans even provide resettlers with thousands of tons of food and supply. They clearly stated that ill Jews hospitalised in hospitals will not be resettled at this time (logical, they are ill), we have Jews which were documented and transfered using alleged extermination camp, they survived extermination camp and were transfered between them and etc. Mentions of killings of combatants and bandits from Warsaw ghetto uprising in Stroop report are clear and not camouflaged at all.

This is only small fragment, if you are interested in more see Mattogno and Graf and other revisionist literature, all credit goes to them.

Official document speaks clearly about transits and evacuation and this is only mostly associated with Treblinka, same situation is with other alleged extermination camps. Yes, I have no reason to not believe in transit camps, documents are clear, policy is clear, proofs are clear, transfers are documented and clear, provided sources are clear, why tens of thousands tons of food and supply to Jews which are determined to be exterminated? Why the Jews were in hospitals and they did not evacuate them and let them to be hospitalised? Oh my God, use logic.

What you have dear Rich or Nessie, Matthew and the others to present, that transit camp thesis is false? Let me guess, eyewitnesses and confessions, correct?

Simple.

Rich and Nessie, you both uses false logic, you must prove extermination thesis, burden of proof is one you, not on accusators.

Yeah, Rich don´t like "rules", no wonder.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:53 am

sorry, dont see any proof that the jews that went to treblinka "transited" anywhere.

and no, burden of proof is on you in this one.

i love rules bob, when theyre applied fair and not in a ridiculous way where the questionnaire is using confirmation bias and denial to make sure they cant lose.

you go on about courts, well newsflash bob, some nazis were tried and found guilty of the holocaust attrocities... FACT...

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:06 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Quick Overview.
Most holocaust deniers will assume Treblinka II is a transit camp based on this paper.
Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The paper is worthless, does not include facts like the hofle telegram and shoots itself in the foot with this hilarious conclusion "Above all, it is entirely unclear where the Jews deported to Treblinka ultimately wound up"

The authors stopped writing. One of the authors, Jurgen Graf then went on the run from Swiss authorities and worked for the Ahmadinejad government in Iran translating propaganda.

The only academic and most famous holocaust denier, David Irving, recanted in 2003 and now agrees that the Action Reinhard camps (ie Treblinka) were indeed mass execution camps.
Interesting, what are your proofs of extermination? Eyewtinesses? How can you refute transit camp documented thesis which is based on documents from top nazis and Jewish organisations or Soviet sources?

Lie again, they mention Hans Hofle clearly five times in Treblinka book. You must read all of their publications, Hofle telegram and Korherr report are presented in Sobibor book, all books present one complete picture of AR camps. You again lie.

Another Lie, they did not stop writing, they are of course active, Mattogno published for example books about Chelmno or about Auschwitz, they published articles in inconvenient history blog and etc.

David Irving isn´t academic, he has no degree in history according to my knowledge, this is known and he was blamed for not to being a historian after he exposed his doubts eventhough he was well respected expert before his doubts.

His profile on ADL, no history degree
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/irving. ... tem=irving" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same here, no degree
http://www.holocaust-history.org/irving ... tent.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep Matthew, you lied again, directly through your teeths and your own orthodox sources proved this.

Irving has his opinions, revisionists are not represented by Irving, he never published anything about Holocaust, he even said that he don´t know much about it, I don´t care about Irving I don´t behave according to other peoples.

He admited AR camps, he presented proof which were the reason why he admited, here:

http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/da ... camps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His alleged proofs why he believe in AR extermination camps were refuted long time ago as you can see in article.

Is incredible how can you plainly lie like this, you are really pathological liar as I proved several times.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:31 am

bob, prove to me that no jews were gassed at treblinka?.

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:48 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:sorry, dont see any proof that the jews that went to treblinka "transited" anywhere.

and no, burden of proof is on you in this one.

i love rules bob, when theyre applied fair and not in a ridiculous way where the questionnaire is using confirmation bias and denial to make sure they cant lose.
That´s not my problem, I presented you lot of proofs you can´t refute anything.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you go on about courts, well newsflash bob, some nazis were tried and found guilty of the holocaust attrocities... FACT...
Yes, of course, tell this to Arno Diere Rich.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:bob, prove to me that no jews were gassed at treblinka?.

thanks

rich
False logic, I cannot prove something which I don´t believe that it did happen, isn´t possible to prove negative, learn some basic of logic, thanks. Burden of proof is on accusator, rule accepted by courts and system, sorry. This is as stupid as want from you proof that you didn´t murder someone. The rule is, that accuser must prove crime.

Rich, you clearly proved to me that you really don´t know nothing about the subject, at least something was proved.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:51 am

1 name one Jew who was at Treblinka who was resettled and for whom their location aftre leaving is known and they did not just get moved to another camp.

2 what happened to the people who arrived at Treblinka but for whom there is no recordof them having left.

3 if Jews were being resettled name one town, village or other place where they went to after leaving Treblinka.

THanks.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:01 am

Bob wrote:Lie again, they mention Hans Hofle clearly five times in Treblinka book. You must read all of their publications, Hofle telegram and Korherr report are presented in Sobibor book, all books present one complete picture of AR camps. You again lie.
You idiot! They released this book before the Hofle Telegram was recovered. They mention Hofle the individual not the telegram Are you looking at their revised Internet version?
Bob wrote: Another Lie, they did not stop writing, they are of course active, Mattogno published for example books about Chelmno or about Auschwitz, they published articles in inconvenient history blog and etc.
Graf is still in Iran working for Ahmadinejad and hasn't published for more than 10 years. Mattogno's last publication was 2004 then he stopped.
Bob wrote: David Irving isn´t academic, he has no degree in history according to my knowledge,
David Irving studied history at London University.
Bob wrote:He admited AR camps, he presented proof which were the reason why he admited, here:
http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/da ... camps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good one Bob! You linked us to Jugen Graf's blog slagging off Irving for recanting and agreeing that AR camps were extermination camps. You do realise that Graf wrote this in Iran while working for Ahmadinejad during Ahmadinejad's anti-holocaust period? Gosh, you holocaust denier just love Iranian propaganda!

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:10 am

Nessie wrote:1 name one Jew who was at Treblinka who was resettled and for whom their location aftre leaving is known and they did not just get moved to another camp.

2 what happened to the people who arrived at Treblinka but for whom there is no recordof them having left.

3 if Jews were being resettled name one town, village or other place where they went to after leaving Treblinka.

THanks.
See again:
Samuel Zylbersztajn transferred to Majdanek April 30, 1943 in transport together with 308 Jews.

Samuel Zylbersztajn, “Pamietnik wi eznia dziesieciu obozów,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu
Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. April 30, 1943, the date of deportation to Treblinka.

Accordin to his memoirs “The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps.” he survived extermination camp Majdanek, Treblinka and eight concentration camps.
2. There is nothing like "no record of left" they were moved through the camps, see documents again. For more records is needed to open Moscow archives, they captured tons of documents. What is important, transit camp thesis is proved, extermination thesis not.

3. See my post again, radio Moscow, they captured 8000 Jews deported from Paris to Ukraine. Or Soviets lie about capturing of alleged exterminated Jews?

Simple, where are your proof of murder? Nobody.

Matthew, read article and read alleged proof of Irving, than come back.

David Irving studied history at London University, nice Matthew, but he never finished it and dropped, see provided link, this is ridiculous.

Treblinka -First edition January 2004 - you lie again, Hofle Telegram was already released.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:16 am

Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:sorry, dont see any proof that the jews that went to treblinka "transited" anywhere.

and no, burden of proof is on you in this one.

i love rules bob, when theyre applied fair and not in a ridiculous way where the questionnaire is using confirmation bias and denial to make sure they cant lose.
That´s not my problem, I presented you lot of proofs you can´t refute anything.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you go on about courts, well newsflash bob, some nazis were tried and found guilty of the holocaust attrocities... FACT...
Yes, of course, tell this to Arno Diere Rich.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:bob, prove to me that no jews were gassed at treblinka?.

thanks

rich
False logic, I cannot prove something which I don´t believe that it did happen, isn´t possible to prove negative, learn some basic of logic, thanks. Burden of proof is on accusator, rule accepted by courts and system, sorry. This is as stupid as want from you proof that you didn´t murder someone. The rule is, that accuser must prove crime.

Rich, you clearly proved to me that you really don´t know nothing about the subject, at least something was proved.
funny stuff bob, exactly the kind of response expected when the rules arent in your favour and the boots on the other foot, i dont need to refute anything because you offered me no proof that any jews transited anywhere from treblinka.
where did i claim anyone murdered anyone?.

prove to me that 10 jews moved on from trblinka and re settled somewhere, i want photos or video, records from the camp and where they went after, and dna evidence? shouldnt be that hard if you claim that it was a transit camp and they werent executed....
there must be thousands of people that transited to new places (not other camps) if it was just a transit camp.

where did i claim that i knew anything about ww2?, i didnt, im just addressing your false logic and disengenuous behaviour.

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:25 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:sorry, dont see any proof that the jews that went to treblinka "transited" anywhere.

and no, burden of proof is on you in this one.

i love rules bob, when theyre applied fair and not in a ridiculous way where the questionnaire is using confirmation bias and denial to make sure they cant lose.
That´s not my problem, I presented you lot of proofs you can´t refute anything.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you go on about courts, well newsflash bob, some nazis were tried and found guilty of the holocaust attrocities... FACT...
Yes, of course, tell this to Arno Diere Rich.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:bob, prove to me that no jews were gassed at treblinka?.

thanks

rich
False logic, I cannot prove something which I don´t believe that it did happen, isn´t possible to prove negative, learn some basic of logic, thanks. Burden of proof is on accusator, rule accepted by courts and system, sorry. This is as stupid as want from you proof that you didn´t murder someone. The rule is, that accuser must prove crime.

Rich, you clearly proved to me that you really don´t know nothing about the subject, at least something was proved.
funny stuff bob, exactly the kind of response expected when the rules arent in your favour and the boots on the other foot, i dont need to refute anything because you offered me no proof that any jews transited anywhere from treblinka.
where did i claim anyone murdered anyone?.

prove to me that 10 jews moved on from trblinka and re settled somewhere, i want photos or video, records from the camp and where they went after, and dna evidence? shouldnt be that hard if you claim that it was a transit camp and they werent executed....
there must be thousands of people that transited to new places (not other camps) if it was just a transit camp.

where did i claim that i knew anything about ww2?, i didnt, im just addressing your false logic and disengenuous behaviour.

thanks

rich
Wrong Rich, Nessie wanted to prove transit camp, documents are presented and names too, numbers of deported and etc.

Is funny when you got names and documents, you realized that you failed and now want more and more to find some point which will be in your favor. If I get you 10 names, you will want to have 100 names, then 1000 and etc. real fun : )

Yeah, i proved your false claims and logic and you just accuse me of the same thing but without proofs.

I have nothing to add, transit camps is the only explanation based on documents and facts which you can´t refute, nobody prove extermination view.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:35 am

those documents dont prove anything whatsoever, theyre just claims until theyre backed up with evidence, i dont accept them on their own.

simple.

where did you prove anything? you didnt prove any false claims or false logic except your own, again, as you keep mentioning courts, nazis have been convicted of holocaust attrocities in a court of law...

im just doing exactly what youre doing in your thread, now would you care to answer my questions and not dodge them or make strawmen arguments, thanks


thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:41 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:those documents dont prove anything whatsoever, theyre just claims until theyre backed up with evidence, i dont accept them on their own.

simple.

where did you prove anything? you didnt prove any false claims or false logic except your own, again, as you keep mentioning courts, nazis have been convicted of holocaust attrocities in a court of law...

im just doing exactly what youre doing in your thread, now would you care to answer my questions and not dodge them or make strawmen arguments, thanks


thanks

rich
No Rich, you are not doing what I am doing, you did not present even one argument why these examples are false, you dismissed them all because of unknown reason, but I see that reason is Bob and revisionist cannot be right, this is propably your argument.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Yes, of course, they were convicted from steam killing and from Katyn massacre or from human soap production, you must be joking with those trials.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:45 am

Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:those documents dont prove anything whatsoever, theyre just claims until theyre backed up with evidence, i dont accept them on their own.

simple.

where did you prove anything? you didnt prove any false claims or false logic except your own, again, as you keep mentioning courts, nazis have been convicted of holocaust attrocities in a court of law...

im just doing exactly what youre doing in your thread, now would you care to answer my questions and not dodge them or make strawmen arguments, thanks


thanks

rich
No Rich, you are not doing what I am doing, you did not present even one argument why these examples are false, you dismissed them all because of unknown reason, but I see that reason is Bob and revisionist cannot be right, this is propably your argument.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Yes, of course, they were convicted from steam killing and from Katyn massacre or from human soap production, you must be joking with those trials.
joking? are you saying those trials didnt take place?... hmm

my examples arent false, you just dont want to answer when the odds arent in your favour, funny how in your thread you kept asking more and more questions yet it appears to be against the rules for me to do so...

funny that in your thread you refuse to accept documents and claims without evidence to back them up, you wont accept them even with back up, yet when i ask for you to provide evidence to back up those documents it appears to be an unreasonable request....

now would you care to address the questions i asked please?

thanks

rich

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:49 am

i didnt say they were false, where did i say that? i said i wont accept them without evidence to back them up, those documents could be fake for all i know just like what you said about the photos offered....

thanks

rich

User avatar
Blacksamwell
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1954
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:21 am
Custom Title: Buckfutter
Location: Columbia, Missouri, U.S.A.

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Blacksamwell » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:06 am

Best. Holocaust Denial. Thread. Ever.

:wgrin:

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:17 am

bob doesn't appear to be as bothered about what constitutes as proof in this thread, for some strange reason he now feels that just a few documents and claims are enough! weird...

thanks

rich

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:19 am

i like how bob feels that a telegram about a totally different camp constitutes as proof! lol

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:22 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
joking? are you saying those trials didnt take place?... hmm

my examples arent false, you just dont want to answer when the odds arent in your favour, funny how in your thread you kept asking more and more questions yet it appears to be against the rules for me to do so...

funny that in your thread you refuse to accept documents and claims without evidence to back them up, you wont accept them even with back up, yet when i ask for you to provide evidence to back up those documents it appears to be an unreasonable request....

now would you care to address the questions i asked please?

thanks

rich
I didn´t refute documents since no document was presented. Hofle telegram was accepted, but nothing sinister.

Trials did take place, where are claimed that they didn´t? Interesting. I adressed their "quality".

Only your false logic was exposed.

Yes, of course, you can claim that all these documents are fabricated, but you are the only one, even orthodox sources which reproduced them have no problem with them, me too, so your problem Rich, is it your fight, sorry.

Documents were backed up even with documented transports, names and etc. You ingore it so I can´t help you more, problem is in you, sorry.
i like how bob feels that a telegram about a totally different camp constitutes as proof! lol
What telegram?

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:38 am

where did i claim the documenst were fake?.... you justt keep making things up as you go along and twisting peoples words.

i will ask again.

prove to me that 10 jews moved on from trblinka and re settled somewhere, i want photos or video, records from the camp and where they went after, and dna evidence?

shouldnt be that hard if you claim that it was a transit camp and they werent executed....

there must be thousands of people that transited to new places (not other camps) if it was just a transit camp.

no doging and no strawmen, answer the questions.

thanks

rich

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:41 am

this telegram or document whatever it is, you used it as evidence for treblinka when it clearly states sobibor...
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
how is this evidence for treblinka?

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:49 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:this telegram or document whatever it is, you used it as evidence for treblinka when it clearly states sobibor...
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
how is this evidence for treblinka?

thanks

rich
Maybe you should read text more carefuly?:
Another document which prove that Treblinka was transit camp as Sobibor or Belzec since all of them are part of one operation, Aktion Reinhard(t)
Rich, this is too much ridiculous, sorry.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:56 am

Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:this telegram or document whatever it is, you used it as evidence for treblinka when it clearly states sobibor...
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
how is this evidence for treblinka?

thanks

rich
Maybe you should read text more carefuly?:
Another document which prove that Treblinka was transit camp as Sobibor or Belzec since all of them are part of one operation, Aktion Reinhard(t)
Rich, this is too much ridiculous, sorry.
oh i totally agree bob, it was ridiculous, so why the hell did you post it as evidence for a camp it doesnt mention?....

now answer my questions please, stop dodging them...

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:04 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:this telegram or document whatever it is, you used it as evidence for treblinka when it clearly states sobibor...
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
how is this evidence for treblinka?

thanks

rich
Maybe you should read text more carefuly?:
Another document which prove that Treblinka was transit camp as Sobibor or Belzec since all of them are part of one operation, Aktion Reinhard(t)
Rich, this is too much ridiculous, sorry.
oh i totally agree bob, it was ridiculous, so why the hell did you post it as evidence for a camp it doesnt mention?....

now answer my questions please, stop dodging them...

thanks

rich
Did you actually read it? I doubt, All three camps are part of one operation, is not possible to drop one camp as an extermination camp and still instist that the others are still extemrination camps.

Read it again and try to think about it, finally.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:10 am

why is it not possible?.

ford motors have many factorys on this earth, many of them make ford focus cars, now for example, if ford made a statement to say the german factory is to stop making ford focuses does that automatically mean all the factories that make that car will stop too? er no

your logic is flawed....

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:14 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:why is it not possible?.

ford motors have many factorys on this earth, many of them make ford focus cars, now for example, if ford made a statement to say the german factory is to stop making ford focuses does that automatically mean all the factories that make that car will stop too? er no

your logic is flawed....

thanks

rich
Yes Rich, your comparison is correct and you made my logic flawed again. (sarkasm off)

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:14 am

Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:1 name one Jew who was at Treblinka who was resettled and for whom their location aftre leaving is known and they did not just get moved to another camp.

2 what happened to the people who arrived at Treblinka but for whom there is no recordof them having left.

3 if Jews were being resettled name one town, village or other place where they went to after leaving Treblinka.

THanks.
See again:
Samuel Zylbersztajn transferred to Majdanek April 30, 1943 in transport together with 308 Jews.

Samuel Zylbersztajn, “Pamietnik wi eznia dziesieciu obozów,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu
Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. April 30, 1943, the date of deportation to Treblinka.

Accordin to his memoirs “The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps.” he survived extermination camp Majdanek, Treblinka and eight concentration camps.
2. There is nothing like "no record of left" they were moved through the camps, see documents again. For more records is needed to open Moscow archives, they captured tons of documents. What is important, transit camp thesis is proved, extermination thesis not.

3. See my post again, radio Moscow, they captured 8000 Jews deported from Paris to Ukraine. Or Soviets lie about capturing of alleged exterminated Jews?

Simple, where are your proof of murder? Nobody.

Matthew, read article and read alleged proof of Irving, than come back.

David Irving studied history at London University, nice Matthew, but he never finished it and dropped, see provided link, this is ridiculous.

Treblinka -First edition January 2004 - you lie again, Hofle Telegram was already released.
4 - the evidence provided to question 1 is of some Jews being transported from camp to camp.

Is that all transit means?

If so where are all the Jews who were sent to Treblinka then sent to other camps?

6 - Please provide proof Jews left Treblinka to be resettled other than at other camps.

7- Please explain the discrepancies between the figures of Jews arriving at Treblinka and the number of Jews leaving Treblinka.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:31 am

Nessie wrote:
Bob wrote:
Nessie wrote:1 name one Jew who was at Treblinka who was resettled and for whom their location aftre leaving is known and they did not just get moved to another camp.

2 what happened to the people who arrived at Treblinka but for whom there is no recordof them having left.

3 if Jews were being resettled name one town, village or other place where they went to after leaving Treblinka.

THanks.
See again:
Samuel Zylbersztajn transferred to Majdanek April 30, 1943 in transport together with 308 Jews.

Samuel Zylbersztajn, “Pamietnik wi eznia dziesieciu obozów,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu
Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. April 30, 1943, the date of deportation to Treblinka.

Accordin to his memoirs “The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps.” he survived extermination camp Majdanek, Treblinka and eight concentration camps.
2. There is nothing like "no record of left" they were moved through the camps, see documents again. For more records is needed to open Moscow archives, they captured tons of documents. What is important, transit camp thesis is proved, extermination thesis not.

3. See my post again, radio Moscow, they captured 8000 Jews deported from Paris to Ukraine. Or Soviets lie about capturing of alleged exterminated Jews?

Simple, where are your proof of murder? Nobody.

Matthew, read article and read alleged proof of Irving, than come back.

David Irving studied history at London University, nice Matthew, but he never finished it and dropped, see provided link, this is ridiculous.

Treblinka -First edition January 2004 - you lie again, Hofle Telegram was already released.
4 - the evidence provided to question 1 is of some Jews being transported from camp to camp.

Is that all transit means?

If so where are all the Jews who were sent to Treblinka then sent to other camps?

6 - Please provide proof Jews left Treblinka to be resettled other than at other camps.

7- Please explain the discrepancies between the figures of Jews arriving at Treblinka and the number of Jews leaving Treblinka.
4 - Jew who was transfered throuh camps, inluding Majdanek and Treblinka. See integorration from Demjanjuk files, these are next exmaples, don´t ignore it.

Transit means transit, so?

See documents, they were transited to various camps and assinged to work, see for example:
Himmler, end of 1942

"Prepare to accept 100,000 male Jews and up to 50,000 female Jews in the concentration camp in the next 4 weeks. Great economic tasks will arise in the concentration camps in the coming weeks."

Nuremberg Document NO-500.

Himmler 9 March 1944

The Fuehrer has ordered the transfer of 10,000 men, with officers and non-commissioned officers, to supervise the 200,000 Jews being transferred to the concentration camps of the Reich in order to put them to work on large construction projects for the OT [Organization Todt] and other projects of importance to the war.

Nuremberg document NO-5689.

WVHA report about delivery of 612,000 persons 15 August 1944 to the work camps.
Nuremberg document NO-1990
6 -Proof provided, see 8000 Jews from Paris delivered to Ukraine and captured by Soviet army, I already wrote this.

Edit - sorry I missed, that you spoke about Treblinka, so these 8000 aren´t proved to go through Treblinka, they could be transfered using other transit/alleged extermination camps.

For exmaples of this, see interrogation from Demjanjuk case.

7 - simple, we have no all documents, most of them are still in archives and not released we must wait to discover more, you want something what the orthodox side don´t want to provide to us, I only wonder why. Complain to them, historians must work with what is released. If you want to know more, travel to Moscow for example and blame them why they don´t want to provide us with more, that is what revisionist say all the time, no reason to hide documents.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2318
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by OutOfBreath » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:46 am

Thought he was smart enough not to walk straight into this one and show how unreasonable his own approach is.
Brilliant thread. :)

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:38 am

Out of breath is wrong again, you are not able to prove exterminationist view, this is important, transit camp is backed up by documents, facts, with specific proofs which don´t depend on witnesses and finally with logic of course. Local believers aren´t able to refute even one plain fact which was presented here. Believers logic is flawed again, over 200 000 tons of food provided to resettlers in specific period of time and don´t counting other periods and they provided it to resettlers which were allegedly determined to exterminated.

Exteminationist view is supported only by witnesses and confessions which are contradicting or speak about nonsenses against science and logic, so you have two worst types of evidence.

I did not expect that some local believer will accept transit thesis, dogmatic view is just dogmatic view. Burden of proof is one accusers and those aren´t even able to show what was the murder weapon, is clear that exterminationist story is untenable.

Ok, no more to add.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:54 pm

lol. this gets funnier by the minute!.

so by bobs logic, if they transit to another camp that makes it all go away and means they weren't murdered ! hahahaha, keep it up bob, this is comedy gold.

thanks

rich

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:45 pm

ill ask these questions again as bob appears to be avoiding them like the plague....

prove to me that 10 jews moved on from trblinka and re settled somewhere, i want photos or video, records from the camp and where they went after, and dna evidence?

shouldnt be that hard if you claim that it was a transit camp and they werent executed....

there must be thousands of people that transited to new places (not other camps) if it was just a transit camp.

no doging and no strawmen, answer the questions.

thanks

rich

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:22 pm

Note - last nights post were on my new mobile phone which I failed to get a grip with, hence the delay in the reply to this post.
Bob wrote:This is very easy, here one of the major document, Korherr report.
“The evacuation, at least as far as the Reich territory is concerned, replaced the emigration of the Jews. It was prepared on a large scale after the prohibition of Jewish emigration in the autumn of 1941 and largely implemented in the total Reich territory in 1942. In the balance of the Jewish presence it appears as ‘migration.’ According to the figures of RSHA, the migrations were as follows up to 1 Jan. 1943:

From the Altreich including Sudetenland: 100,516 Jews
from Ostmark 47,555 Jews
from the Protectorate 69,677 Jews
Total 217,748 Jews

These figures comprise also the Jews evacuated to the old-age ghetto at Theresienstadt. All moves combined, the following figures apply to the Reich territory including the eastern territories, as well as the German sphere of power and influence in Europe for the period between October 1939 and 31 Dec. 1942:

1. Evacuation of Jews from Baden and Palatinate [regions] to France: 6,504 Jews
2. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich territory including the Protectorate and Bialystok district to the east: 170,642 Jews
3. Evacuation of Jews from the Reich territory and the Protectorate to Theresienstadt: 87,193 Jews
4. Transport of Jews from the Eastern provinces to the Russian East: 1,449,692 Jews
Processed through the camps in the General Government area: 1,274,166 Jews
Through the camps in the Warthegau: 145,302 Jews.
5. Evacuations of Jews from other countries, viz.:
France (occupied before 10. Nov. 1942) 41,911 Jews
Netherlands 38,571 Jews
Belgium 16,886 Jews
Norway 532 Jews
Slovakia 56,691 Jews
Croatia 4,927 Jews
Evacuation, total (incl. Theresienstadt and incl. special treatment) 1,873,549 Jews
without Theresienstadt 1,786,356 Jews

According to information from RSHA, the evacuation of 633,300 Jews from the Russian territories including the former Baltic states since the beginning of the eastern campaign must be taken into account. Not included in the above figures are the detainees in the ghettos and the concentration camps.”

NO-5194, pp. 9f.
So evacuation of people from their homes to camps or gettos/camps such as Theresienstadt which also sent many to Auchwitz-Birkenau. So we have evidence of transit from camp to camp, nothing more.

More from report
http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/korherr_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Report use Hofle Telegram figures, Jews were processed through camps in General Gouvernment - Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec, all camps near border of General Gouvernment.

http://www.worldwar02.com/wp-content/up ... ps-map.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Report also speak about releases from camps and from alleged extermination or gassing camps, some 36,943 releases.
“From August 6, 1942, until further notice, a special train with resettlers is running from Warsaw Danz BF [Danzig railway station] to Treblinka and running empty as follows […]”The departure of one train per day was scheduled: “1/. P Kr 9085 / 9.30 / Warsaw Danz Bf – Malkinia – Treblinka,” with departure at 12:25 PM, arrival at 4:20 PM, and return “2/. Ln Kr 9086 / 11.30 / Treblinka – Malkinia – Warsaw Danz Bf” with departure at 7:00 PM and arrival at 11:19 PM."

Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz, Dumjahn, Munich 1981, pp. 178f.

Albert Ganzenmüller, Secretary of State in the Reichsverkehrsministerium (Ministry of Transport) and Deputy General Director of the German Reichsbahn (National Railway), report to SS-Gruppenführer Wolff on July 28, 1942:

“Since July 22, a train with 5,000 Jews makes a daily trip from Warsaw to Treblinka via Makinia, in addition to a train with 5,000 Jews traveling twice a week from Przemysl to Belzec.”


Ibid., p. 177.

August 13 1942, Wolff to Ganzenmüller:

“I have noted with especial pleasure your report that a train with 5,000 members of the Chosen People has already been running for 14 days to Treblinka every day, and we are thus indeed in a position to carry out this movement of population at an accelerated tempo.”

Ibid., p. 181.

April 11, 1962, Wolff for the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial.

“At the time I did not connect the notion of a mass extermination camp with the name of Treblinka. I assumed it was a Jewish reservation [sic], as Himmler had explained it to me.”

State Office of Prosecution at the Frankfurt (Main) District Court criminal proceedings against Baer and others at the Frankfurt Court of Assizes, Ref. 4 Js 444/59 vol. 65, pp. 12, 100.
Yes, even high ranking officer didn´t know anything about some extermination and considered it as resettlement.

Resettlement to what?
“The first large resettlement action took place in the period from 22 July to 3 October 1942. In this action 310,322 Jews were removed.”

Stroop Report PS-1061. IMT, vol. XXVI, pp. 634f.
“Disclosures and Conditions for the Jewish Council July 22, 1943”:
“All Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”

“[…] all Jewish persons who, on the first day of the evacuation, are in one of the Jewish hospitals and unable to be discharged. Whether a patient is able to be released is to be determined by a physician to be selected by the Jewish Council.”

“Each Jewish resettler is allowed to bring along 15 kg of his property as baggage for the trip. All valuables: gold, jewelry, money, etc., can be taken along. A food supply for 3 days should be brought along.”

Faschismus – Getto – Massenmord. Dokumentation über Ausrottung und Widerstand der Juden in Polen während des zweiten Weltkriegs, Röderberg Verlag, Frankfurt/Main 1960, p. 305.
Jewish Council July 22, 1942

So transit from ghetto to camp, and bring valuables and food supplies.
“By order of the German authorities all Jewish persons who live in Warsaw, of whatever age and sex, are to be resettled to the east.”

Ibid., p. 110.

Jewish Council July 24, 1942

“As a result of incorrect information, which is circulating in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw in connection with the evacuation, the Jewish Council in Warsaw was given permission by the authorities to announce that the evacuation of the populace not productively active in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw will, in fact, occur.”

Ibid., p. 115.

July 29, 1942, the director of the Jewish Ordnungsdienst(constabulary):

“I am hereby announcing that all persons who will be resettled according to the instruction of the authorities will voluntarily report for the journey on the 29th, 30th, and 31st of July of this year, will receive 3 kg of bread and 1 kg of jam. Place of assembly for distribution of the products – Stawikiplatz at the Wildstraße corner.”

Ibid., p. 309.

The German authorities were providing 180,000 kg of bread and 36,000 kg of jam for the volunteers.

“Likwidacja Zydowskiej Warszawy,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego, Warsaw, January-June 1951, no. 1, pp. 59-126. p. 80.

“For the Polish ghettos are not the last stage in the forced eastward migration of the Jewish people. On 20 November 1941, the Governor General, Hans Frank, broadcast the information that the Polish Jews would ultimatelybe transferred further east. Since the summer of 1942 the ghettos and labour camps in the German-occupied Eastern Territories have become the destination of deportees both from Poland and from western and central Europe; in particular, a new large-scale transfer from the Warsaw ghetto has been reported. Many of the deportees have been sent to the labour camps on the Russian front; others to work in the marshes of Pinsk, or to the ghettos of the Baltic countries, Bielorussia and Ukraine.”

Eugene M. Kulischer, The Displacement of Population in Europe, International Labour Office, Montreal 1943. pp. 110f.
So clear evidence that the evacuations were to other camps and ghettos.

Some examples of deported from alleged extermination camp:
Samuel Zylbersztajn transferred to Majdanek April 30, 1943 in transport together with 308 Jews.

Samuel Zylbersztajn, “Pamietnik wi eznia dziesieciu obozów,” in: Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu
Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. April 30, 1943, the date of deportation to Treblinka.

Accordin to his memoirs “The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps.” he survived extermination camp Majdanek, Treblinka and eight concentration camps.
356 Jews were transferred from Treblinka to Majdanek on May 13, 1943.

T. Mencel (ed.), Majdanek 1941-1944, Wydawnictwo Lubelskie, Lublin 1991, p. 448.

“Some of the transports from Warsaw reached Lublin by way of Treblinka, where the selection of the deportees took place.”

Tatiana Berenstein, Adam Rutkowski, “Zydzi w obozie koncentracijnym Majdanek (1941-
1944),” Biuletyn Zydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, No. 58, 1966, p. 16.
Interrogations from Demjanjuk files
December 12, 1979: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka. On the next day he was transferred to Majdanek, where he spent 6-7 days; afterward he went to Budzyn for approximately a year. From Budzyn he was sent to Wieliczka (in the vicinity of Krakow), from there to Flossenbürg in mid-1944, and finally to Leitmeritz.

December 17, 1979: the witness was deported from Krakow to Plaszów, and from there to Auschwitz. After that he went to Oranienburg and finally to Flossenbürg. He stated that he spent a single day in Treblinka without giving details.

March 7, 1980: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka, where he stayed for only one day; then he was transferred along with 180 other prisoners to Majdanek. After two days his trip continued to Budzyn, where he spent two years. He was liberated by the Soviets from an unnamed German concentration camp.

March 11, 1980: the witness was sent to Treblinka in April 1943, where he spent only a day. Transfer to Majdanek, thence to Budzyn, where he was interned for about a year. Liberated on May 5, 1945, from Mauthausen.

U.S. Department of Justice. Criminal Division. Office of Investigation. Report of Investigation. Subject “Demjanjuk Ivan, Fedorenko Feodor.” These protocols were enclosed with the documents in the Jerusalem Demjanjuk Trial (State of Israel vs. Ivan [John] Demjanjuk. Criminal Case No. 373/86 in the Jerusalem District Court; cf. Chapter V).


Again only transit between camps, of a limited number of people.

Court of Assizes of Düsseldorf on September 3, 1965
[
i]
“several thousand people from Treblinka are said to have arrived at other camps.”[/i]

Adalbert Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager im Spiegel deutscher Strafprozesse, German version, Frankfurt 1977., p. 198.
Düsseldorf Court of Assizes of 1965, Germans told this to Jews
“Attention Warsaw Jews! You are in transit camp here, from which further transport to a labor camp will occur. For the prevention of epidemics, clothing as well as articles of baggage are to be handed over for disinfection. Gold, money, foreign currency, and jewelry are to be surrendered in exchange for a receipt at the counter. They will be returned later, upon presentation of the receipt. All those arriving have to bathe for bodily cleanliness before traveling
on.”


Ibid., p. 219.

Informacja biezaca of August 17, 1942:

“the camp was at a strength of 40,000 Jews on August 5"

Krystyna Marczewska, Wladyslaw Wazniewski, “Treblinka w swietle Akt Delegatury Rzadu RP na Kraji” (Treblinka in Light of the Documents of the Home Government Delegation of the Polish Republic) in: Biuletyn Glównej Komisji Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce, vol. XIX, Warsaw 1968, pp. 129-164., pp. 136f.
So 40,000 Jews were accomodated in camp according to this source, but this same source of course later state, that they were gassed in "the gas-and oven chambers”, but how they arrive to this is not known, no gas ovens according to narrative.

This is about whether Treblinka is a transit camp and so far the evidence is only in a very limited sense as so many more people arrived there than left.

Another evidence inderectly associated with Treblinka since Treblinka was part of Aktion Reindhard(t) so it means that is associated with Belzec and Sobibor too, I will show only some thing, there is lof of it.

Talk between Fritz Reuter and Hans Hofle (Hoffle telegram) from March 16 and written to note on March 17, 1942
“I arranged for a talk with Hstuf. Höfle for Monday, the 16th of March 1942, namely at 17:30 hours. In the course of the discussion the following was explained by Hstuf. Höfle: It would be expedient to divide the transports of Jews to the Lublin district into employable and unemployable Jews at the station of origin. If it is not possible to make this distinction at the station of origin, it will be necessary for the division of the transport into unemployables and unemployables to be done at Lublin. Unemployable Jews are all to come to Bezec [Belzec], the outermost border station in the Zamosz district. Hstuf. Höfle is thinking of building a large camp, in which the employable Jews can be registered in a file system according to their occupations and requested from there. Piaski is being made Jew-free and will be the collection point for the Jews coming out of the Reich. Trawnicki [Trawniki] for the present time is quartering no Jews. H. asks where on the Dblin-Trawnicki route 60,000 Jews can be unloaded. Informed about the Jewish transports now running as far as we are concerned, H. explained that of the 500 Jews arriving in Susiec, those who were unemployable could be sorted out and sent to Bezec. According to a teletype of the government of March 4, 1942, a Jewish transport, whose destination was the Trawnicki station, is rolling out of the Protectorate. These Jews are not unloaded in Trawnicki, but have been brought to Izbica. An inquiry of the Zamosz district, asking to be able to request 200 Jews from there for work, was answered in the affirmative by H. In conclusion he stated that he could accept 4-5 transports daily, of 1,000 Jews with the destination station of Bezec. These Jews would go across the border and would never come back into the General Gouvernement.”

Józef Kermisz, Dokumenty i Materialy do dziejów okupacji niemieckiej w Polsce, Tom II, “Akce” i “Wysiedlenia,” Warsaw-Lodz-Krakow 1946, p. 10.pp. 32f.
So we have a reason why sometimes Jews were moved from camp to camp, it was about the need for a workforce.

Parisian Jews deported to Eastern territories and not to extermination camps according to orthodox narrative.


“Thank you! A news item that will delight all Jews of France was broadcast by Radio Moscow. Which of us does not have a brother, a sister, or relatives among those deported from Paris? And who will not feel profound joy when he thinks about the fact that 8,000 Parisian Jews have been rescued from death by the glorious Red Army! One of them told Radio Moscow how he had been saved from death, and likewise 8,000 other Parisian Jews. They were all in the Ukraine when the last Soviet offensive began, and the SS bandits wanted to shoot them before they left the country. But since they knew what fate was in store for them and since they had"

La presse antiraciste sous l’occupation hitlérienne. Foreword by A. Raisky, Paris 1950, p. 179.
What date does the above apply to and where did the rescue of Jews from the 'SS bandits' take place? That does not read like an evacuation of 8,000 Jews, it is a rescue.

Another document which prove that Treblinka was transit camp as Sobibor or Belzec since all of them are part of one operation, Aktion Reinhard(t)
“The transit camp Sobibór is to be converted into a concentration camp. In the concentration camp a plant for the repair of captured munitions is to be established.”

Top secret, Heinrich Himmler to officers, Reproduction of the document in: Thomas (Tovi) Blatt: Sobibor. The Forgotten Revolt. A Survivor’s Report. H.E.P., Issaquah, 1998, documentation without pagination. Cf. also Pohl’s letter to Himmler of July 15 and the reply of the Office of the Reichsführer-SS of July 24, 1943, both on the subject “Transit Camp Sobibór”.
Of course, there are mentions of killing, for example Stroop report of Warsaw ghetto uprising which mention liquidation of local combatants and bandits, but nothing is camouflaged, he plainly speak about killings which were
supposedly done in T II.

So everything speaks about evacuations, resettlements, resettlers, moved, processed through Durchgangslager, moved East, Germans even provide resettlers with thousands of tons of food and supply. They clearly stated that ill Jews hospitalised in hospitals will not be resettled at this time (logical, they are ill), we have Jews which were documented and transfered using alleged extermination camp, they survived extermination camp and were transfered between them and etc. Mentions of killings of combatants and bandits from Warsaw ghetto uprising in Stroop report are clear and not camouflaged at all.

This is only small fragment, if you are interested in more see Mattogno and Graf and other revisionist literature, all credit goes to them.

Official document speaks clearly about transits and evacuation and this is only mostly associated with Treblinka, same situation is with other alleged extermination camps. Yes, I have no reason to not believe in transit camps, documents are clear, policy is clear, proofs are clear, transfers are documented and clear, provided sources are clear, why tens of thousands tons of food and supply to Jews which are determined to be exterminated? Why the Jews were in hospitals and they did not evacuate them and let them to be hospitalised? Oh my God, use logic.

Sticking to the issue of Treblinka as a transit camp, most of your evidence has been about the general nature of transit and evacuation and it is from ghetto or camp to camp or ghetto. But...........

What you have dear Rich or Nessie, Matthew and the others to present, that transit camp thesis is false? Let me guess, eyewitnesses and confessions, correct?

Simple.

Rich and Nessie, you both uses false logic, you must prove extermination thesis, burden of proof is one you, not on accusators.

Yeah, Rich don´t like "rules", no wonder.

I am not convinced Treblinka is a transit camp as all you can show is a far larger number of people arriving, for example the Hofle Telegram 713,555 arrivals by the end of 1942, but people leaving only 308, 356, 180 and some individual cases in 1943 and after the war in 1965 a vague report of several thousand said to have left Treblinka.

- How many hospitals were at Treblinka?

- If there were hospitals there, how many Jews were cared for there?

- How many Jews died at Treblinka?

- Of those deaths, what did they die from?

- Although there are reports of Jews being asked to bring food and some food being provided, is it enough to feed, say 713,555 people?
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:27 pm

Bob wrote:Out of breath is wrong again, you are not able to prove exterminationist view, this is important, transit camp is backed up by documents, facts, with specific proofs which don´t depend on witnesses and finally with logic of course. Local believers aren´t able to refute even one plain fact which was presented here. Believers logic is flawed again, over 200 000 tons of food provided to resettlers in specific period of time and don´t counting other periods and they provided it to resettlers which were allegedly determined to exterminated.

Exteminationist view is supported only by witnesses and confessions which are contradicting or speak about nonsenses against science and logic, so you have two worst types of evidence.

I did not expect that some local believer will accept transit thesis, dogmatic view is just dogmatic view. Burden of proof is one accusers and those aren´t even able to show what was the murder weapon, is clear that exterminationist story is untenable.

Ok, no more to add.
- How many people was that food for?

- Over what time scale?

- Which camps did the food go to?
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:21 am

The transit camp was the "forgotten camp" of Malkinia.
It was a major stop.
This was because
"Malkinia Junction was the end of the line for the eastern railway line (Ostbahn) because there were no railroad bridges across the Bug river into the Polish territory that had been a part of Russia between 1772 and 1917. If the Nazis had been planning to get rid of the Jews with a program of “transportation to the East,” as they claimed, they would need to stop at the Bug river before continuing on to the East."

And they did.

Because there was a large traffic at Malkinia due to the deportation to the
East, Treblinka II was created as a waiting area right off the connecting line.

Malkinia was a very important camp but it has been consigned to the
Memory Hole by Believers.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:53 am

So Treblinka was a waiting area to go on to a transit camp at Malkinia.

Can you name one Jew who waited at Treblinka before going on to Malkinia?
Evidence that as well please.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.

David
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5006
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:04 am

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by David » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:03 am

Nessie wrote:So Treblinka was a waiting area to go on to a transit camp at Malkinia.

Can you name one Jew who waited at Treblinka before going on to Malkinia?
Evidence that as well please.
Not quite right. Malkinia was the processing camp for transport further east.
Treblinka II as merely a side spur on the track that went to Treblinka I
and to the huge quarry. When Malkinia was to full trains were
shunted to Treblinka a few miles south.
This is obvious from the aerial photographs of the spur layout
and the fact that the trains were backed into the spur.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigarie.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Malkinia is up the rail line to the left. Which was the main
rail line to the East.

The train records from the operation of the huge quarry and the
existence of the large Malkinia Camp have all "disappeared."
They are hard for Believers to explain!


I am taking off to go cross country skiing tomorrow,
but there are newly "unhiddened" reports of exactly what you are
asking for.

Treblinka II was simply a large field surrounded by a single strand
of wire. There was a well, a small area with amusing animals

See http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/photos.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was not a specific destination.

User avatar
Nessie
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3079
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Re: Treblinka II - was it a transit camp?

Post by Nessie » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:29 am

Please prove that the photos linked to are of Treblinka II, particularly the one with the supposed zoo.
Audiophile, motorbiker and sceptic.