Can you show me some proof/s?

Discussions
User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:44 pm

Total denialist then. OK thanks. Just checking to see if you did accept anything at all.

a) demographic data is out the window. No statistics can be proof. OK.
b) Policy documents, nazi practices and tons of corroborative accounts of nazis treating jews appalingly have no say either. Confessions are worthless as well. OK
c) Camps existed. You give me that at least. You disregard any evidence that they were not just prison camps. Excavations and archaeological methods does not count as proof. OK
d)OK

Which again brings back the question. Seeing that you disregard all the above mentioned types of proof, what kinds are left? What proof would you accept that would convince you that this really happened? You never specify this.

My hunch is that you refuse to, as it keeps you from being tied down to a position that you have to defend. Could you in a short paragraph outline what you think happened? Then we can compare how the various pieces of evidence fit with the respective explanations. But defending isn't your style, so you probably won't.

Anywho, I'm giving it one last shot to see if you have anything in your arsenal apart from being a contrarian relativist.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:58 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Total denialist then. OK thanks. Just checking to see if you did accept anything at all.

a) demographic data is out the window. No statistics can be proof. OK.
b) Policy documents, nazi practices and tons of corroborative accounts of nazis treating jews appalingly have no say either. Confessions are worthless as well. OK
c) Camps existed. You give me that at least. You disregard any evidence that they were not just prison camps. Excavations and archaeological methods does not count as proof. OK
d)OK

Which again brings back the question. Seeing that you disregard all the above mentioned types of proof, what kinds are left? What proof would you accept that would convince you that this really happened? You never specify this.

My hunch is that you refuse to, as it keeps you from being tied down to a position that you have to defend. Could you in a short paragraph outline what you think happened? Then we can compare how the various pieces of evidence fit with the respective explanations. But defending isn't your style, so you probably won't.

Anywho, I'm giving it one last shot to see if you have anything in your arsenal apart from being a contrarian relativist.

Peace
Dan
Sorry Dan, you have just killed all the credibility which you could had to have, I am shocked with this piece.

I already said what I consider as proof, I said it at least two or three times, you know it very well, and ignored it as everything what i write, see again.

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17588" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:08 pm

And you have killed all of yours a long time ago with your various dodges and detail fiddling, while ignoring evidence presented to you.

You have made clear that you are to have the privilege of leaning back and dismissing all kinds of proof presented. And have big demands as to what exactly is proof.

If we are going to pretend to be scientific about this, you must present what kind of evidence it would take to dismiss your hypothesis that the version currently believed by the field is wrong. If your theory is unfalsifiable, then it isn't scientific. I think it also would just show clearly how unreasonable your standard of proof is.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:34 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:And you have killed all of yours a long time ago with your various dodges and detail fiddling, while ignoring evidence presented to you.

You have made clear that you are to have the privilege of leaning back and dismissing all kinds of proof presented. And have big demands as to what exactly is proof.

If we are going to pretend to be scientific about this, you must present what kind of evidence it would take to dismiss your hypothesis that the version currently believed by the field is wrong. If your theory is unfalsifiable, then it isn't scientific. I think it also would just show clearly how unreasonable your standard of proof is.

Peace
Dan
Dodges, ignoring? Really? I adressed everything, you simply lie, i don´t understand why you are doing it when everything is written here.

Where is your problem to prove that poeples were gassed in gas chamber, what are you waiting for? Why no proof? Where is problem man? Write it here or just join my second thread and prove it to me, simple.

Are you at least as honest to answer at least this simple question when you spoke about my ignoring, lack of it and lack of this and etc.?

Matthew spoke about Zabecki´s records, Zabecki told, that he counted them and no doubt - 1,200,000, Matthew told me that they are stored somewhere in Warsawa and they exist.

Can you please tell me, how is possible that the current death toll varies from 200,000 (Pressac, 1995 pp. 640f.) to 870,000 (Gutman, EH, 1990, vol. 4, p. 1486) when Zabecki collected records which prove 1,200,000 according to his testimony and according to claims from Matthew and that they are real and exist?


I await your answer, I am really curious what you are going to say.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34971
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Gord » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:41 pm

Bob wrote:
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:No misplacing, it wasn´t prove that he found it, so I must use word alleged.
It's accepted beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore not "alleged."
Beyond a reasonable doubt, but you can´t prove it, that is what I call "beyond a reasonable doubt".
It's proven beyond a reasonable doubt. What you call it is irrelevant, since you misuse English words.
How many aliens abductions were proven beyond a reasonable doubt? I only wonder, propably thousands.
Your statement is a non sequitur. It does not follow that 2 hectares of human ash proves alien abductions.
Gord wrote:It was significant enough to mention, simple. Your desire for more information is your own problem, not his.
Hm, again, no need to further comment this one.
I agree. And yet, here we are.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:since in the case of thick layer he (Lukaszkiewcz) would write this to his report
He'd have to measure it to know it. I bet it would take a long time to dig up 2 hectares of land to see how deep the layer was. Then again, he might have been put off by the fact that it's against Jewish law to do so.
I didn´t say anything about digging up, he could measure thickness on several different places and make correct guess with these values, simple....
He would have to dig to determine the thickness of the layer, and would have to make multiple such digs to determine if the thickness is regular across the area or if there are concentrations of more in some spots, less in others.
No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
Multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.
I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
"Correct guess," very funny. Maybe his psychic powers will tell him, yes?

I'm the one doing the speaking here, so no strawman. I speak about what I speak about, and you try to twist it. That's how this works, remember?
You lied as i proved you with your own source Lukaszkiewicz who had no problem to dig alleged mass graves during his investigation.
I didn't lie, you simply don't know how to understand English.
This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie.
I'm not on anyone's side. The only lies I've seen are from you. You're repeatedly lied in your claims that others have lied.
Things he knew about. Your desire for him to have done other measurements is irrelevant to what he found worth mentioning. You can call them "unimportant" if you'd like, but your opinion is meaningless
As your opinion. My opinion is at least based on logic, you opinion is based only on "bob, your opinion is meaningless"
Mine is not an opinion, it's the obvious conclusion. Your demand is that more was done, and you dismiss as unimportant that which was done. You do not have the authority to ascertain what was and was not important to the investigator.
Gord wrote:You didn´t tell me about evidence
Yes I did.
what you have presented is not evidence
Yes it is.
you only considered it as an evidence and didn´t explained why and how can you back it up, you didn´t prove it
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence.
simple again, word alleged was correct again.
Your simplistic reasoning is, once again, false. It is not alleged evidence, it is evidence.
One can only wonder what you consider as faulty logic
One need not wonder at all, I consider your faulty logic faulty. The evidence is in your previous posts. You can, of course, deny it to your heart's content.
One can even more wonder what you consider as correct logic, let me guess - your logic or logic of orthodox historians, am I right?
I consider correct logic correct, and incorrect logic to be faulty logic. As you like to say, "simple."
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:45 pm

I am wondering if I'm going to bother going over the exact same ground as I did with David 6 months ago until i ignored him. The answer to that is no. You want to pick at details, I'll leave it to matthew. He can be bothered with it.

As for gassings, the evidence for them is compelling and in line with nazi modus operandi otherwise. Any unbiased look at it will yield that result.

As for differing estimates, I'll just say the obvious that different people counting in different ways will get different results. For a sound estimate they must all be taken into account and weighed according to validity and convergence with other knowledge we have.

With that I'm out. I have no interest being your research monkey for zero reward, and frankly can't be bothered trying to convince the last cranks on the subject. Nessie makes my case better than me, and matthew's good with the details. Speak with them as long as they bother. I don't anymore. Live long and prosper.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:13 pm

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:No misplacing, it wasn´t prove that he found it, so I must use word alleged.
It's accepted beyond a reasonable doubt, therefore not "alleged."
Beyond a reasonable doubt, but you can´t prove it, that is what I call "beyond a reasonable doubt".
It's proven beyond a reasonable doubt. What you call it is irrelevant, since you misuse English words.


You can´t prove it, this is only relevant thing.


Gord wrote:Your statement is a non sequitur. It does not follow that 2 hectares of human ash proves alien abductions.

Lukaszkiewicz - I saw two hectares of ashes mixture with sand. (funny, you still parrot Matthew false claim, it is mixture, not ash alone)

Victim of aliens - I saw alien ship, I was abducted.

Tell me please, where is difference?


Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
Multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.

You edited my response, really honest, here it is, you are wrong: No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness. I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you. Everything what is needed is to take a several drills to guess how thick is whole area. He had no problem to dig pits, so no problem to make several drills, especially when he was there to prove the biggest crime in human history. Did you ever see some investigation of only one murder site? Obviously not.

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
"Correct guess," very funny. Maybe his psychic powers will tell him, yes?

No just several simple drills in area to arrive to some guess about thickness of whole area. This is somewhat hard to understand for you, but it is quite simple, same technique was used by Andrzej Kola during his investigation, but tell me again how this is not possible.

Gord wrote:I'm the one doing the speaking here, so no strawman. I speak about what I speak about, and you try to twist it. That's how this works, remember?

I hope that at least you understand to this.

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You lied as i proved you with your own source Lukaszkiewicz who had no problem to dig alleged mass graves during his investigation.
I didn't lie, you simply don't know how to understand English.

You didn´t lie? Well let see:
Gord wrote:Then again, he might have been put off by the fact that it's against Jewish law to do so.
Here Lukaszkiewicz:
"The work was continued, with 36 workers who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone."

"At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the bottom of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel. By additional digging we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit."

Lukaszkiewicz
Clear, you are liar, no Jewish law as an excuse why not to excavate buried victims of crime. Lukaszkiewicz clearly spoke about digging. Your lie is even more absurd, becuase this would mean that every Jewish victim of some murderer which was buried, cannot be excavated, simply absurd and is hard to believe that someone can make such a nonsense claim, but you did.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie.
I'm not on anyone's side. The only lies I've seen are from you. You're repeatedly lied in your claims that others have lied.
Interesting, you automatically identified yourself as a member of orthodox side, but I don´t see your name. Surely you can quote one my lie, let see.
Gord wrote:Mine is not an opinion, it's the obvious conclusion. Your demand is that more was done, and you dismiss as unimportant that which was done. You do not have the authority to ascertain what was and was not important to the investigator.

You are not familiar with logic as I see. Is interesting that you know what he allegedly found and what he thought as you were here, yes, you obviously arrived to "conclusion"

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You didn´t tell me about evidence
Yes I did.
You did not present anything.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:what you have presented is not evidence
Yes it is.
You did not present anything.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:you only considered it as an evidence and didn´t explained why and how can you back it up, you didn´t prove it
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence.
Because? I am all ears...

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:simple again, word alleged was correct again.
Your simplistic reasoning is, once again, false. It is not alleged evidence, it is evidence.
Same as above. You still speak about something what isn´t here.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can only wonder what you consider as faulty logic
One need not wonder at all, I consider your faulty logic faulty. The evidence is in your previous posts. You can, of course, deny it to your heart's content.
You of course can quote one example of faulty logic, let see.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can even more wonder what you consider as correct logic, let me guess - your logic or logic of orthodox historians, am I right?
I consider correct logic correct, and incorrect logic to be faulty logic. As you like to say, "simple."
Well, let me guess, your logic and "believer" logic is correct, "denier" logic is false, correct? Or only your logic is correct? Or only your and logic of peoples who agree with you is correct? I only guess...

I like your dodging, this question makes big troubles to you as I see: how is possible to find 2 hectares of ashes and sand in 1,4 hectares area, which is the area of alleged extermination camp 2?

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:20 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:I am wondering if I'm going to bother going over the exact same ground as I did with David 6 months ago until i ignored him. The answer to that is no. You want to pick at details, I'll leave it to matthew. He can be bothered with it.

As for gassings, the evidence for them is compelling and in line with nazi modus operandi otherwise. Any unbiased look at it will yield that result.

As for differing estimates, I'll just say the obvious that different people counting in different ways will get different results. For a sound estimate they must all be taken into account and weighed according to validity and convergence with other knowledge we have.

With that I'm out. I have no interest being your research monkey for zero reward, and frankly can't be bothered trying to convince the last cranks on the subject. Nessie makes my case better than me, and matthew's good with the details. Speak with them as long as they bother. I don't anymore. Live long and prosper.

Peace
Dan
Hm, but I asked you one simple question and you completely dodged it, so here is again.

Matthew spoke about Zabecki´s records, Zabecki told, that he counted them and no doubt - 1,200,000, Matthew told me that they are stored somewhere in Warsawa and they exist.

Can you please tell me, how is possible that the current death toll varies from 200,000 (Pressac, 1995 pp. 640f.) to 870,000 (Gutman, EH, 1990, vol. 4, p. 1486) when Zabecki collected records which prove 1,200,000 according to his testimony and according to claims from Matthew and that they are real and exist?


Please tell me how is this possible, you had lot of wall of text which you aressed to me, but now you have lot of excuses. You had lot of strong words about me and now you cannot answer even only one question.

User avatar
OutOfBreath
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2301
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:38 pm
Custom Title: Persistent ponderer
Location: Norway

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by OutOfBreath » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:38 pm

I answered it, but you don't accept the answer, nor adress it. That's your problem.
Me, I'm taking a walk outside. Indefinitly in the case of this thread and frankly the whole subject.

Good day, sir.

Peace
Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:39 pm

Jewish tradition regards burial grounds as sacred sites which must never be disturbed
http://www.lo-tishkach.org/en/index.php?categoryid=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is forbidden to disturb the dead or to remove them for re-interment elsewhere

http://www.jewish-heritage-uk.org/codes/codebg.pdf-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The removal of bones from one gravesite to another . . . is a matter that our rabbis and decisors in all generations have treated with great severity for we find that Chazal were very insistent on the proper respect to be paid to the dead . . . [Rabbi Weinberg proceeds to cite a number of statements in Chazal which compare desecration or humiliation of the dead to a form of murder
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/heritage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

shall i go on? plenty more where these came from....

thanks

rich
Last edited by RICH-ENGLAND on Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:07 pm

Bob wrote: Hm, but I asked you one simple question and you completely dodged it, so here is again.
I have answered this question three times and Bob is pretending to forget the answer just like David does.....
Bob wrote: Matthew spoke about Zabecki´s records, Zabecki told, that he counted them and no doubt - 1,200,000, Matthew told me that they are stored somewhere in Warsawa and they exist.
WRONG. Zabecki also had telexes and train movement logs sent to him as he was station master at Treblinka. I gave you the location of these files in Seidlce in Poland. Zebecki said 1,200,000 people entered Treblinka. Zabecki was Station Master for the entire war.

The Hofle Telegram was recovered only in 2000. It is an internal SS German that confirms that 713,555 people were sent to Treblinka BEFORE 30th December 1942.

Watch Bob list historians, below, who wrote books before 2000, without the information contained in the Hofle telegram.....

Bob wrote:Can you please tell me, how is possible that the current death toll varies from 200,000 (Pressac, 1995 pp. 640f.) to 870,000 (Gutman, EH, 1990, vol. 4, p. 1486) when Zabecki collected records which prove 1,200,000 according to his testimony and according to claims from Matthew and that they are real and exist?[/b].
Bob is mixing up early reports and different cut off dates although I already informed him about this a day ago. Bob is simply trying it on again.....just like David, as they are holocaust deniers.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:14 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
Jewish tradition regards burial grounds as sacred sites which must never be disturbed
http://www.lo-tishkach.org/en/index.php?categoryid=8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is forbidden to disturb the dead or to remove them for re-interment elsewhere

http://www.jewish-heritage-uk.org/codes/codebg.pdf-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The removal of bones from one gravesite to another . . . is a matter that our rabbis and decisors in all generations have treated with great severity for we find that Chazal were very insistent on the proper respect to be paid to the dead . . . [Rabbi Weinberg proceeds to cite a number of statements in Chazal which compare desecration or humiliation of the dead to a form of murder
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/heritage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

shall i go on? plenty more where these came from....

thanks

rich
Nice, but apples and oranges Rich, can you provide me with information, that this apply to crime scenes? Provide me with source that even no murdered/killed Jews can be exhumed from their burial site. I am all ears Rich.

Why Lukaszkiewicz had no problems to dig alleged mass graves? How can you explain it?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:29 am

Bob wrote:Why Lukaszkiewicz had no problems to dig alleged mass graves? How can you explain it?
Because the Treblinka Memorial Trust did not exist when Lukaszkiewicz did his investigation. The Jewish victims of Treblinka now have an advocate as to their posthumous rights. Next question?

But the news gets worse for "Bob" and "David" and their silly cult. Caroline Colls said....
"I really hope this is the first stage in a long-term programme to seek out those hidden graves of the Holocaust." so there is more to come.

User avatar
Donnageddon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:07 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Donnageddon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:52 am

This whole thread has been fascinating. I've never followed a Halocaust Denier at his craft before.

I was wondering if Bob would ever use any other tool beyond the Gish Gallop and JAQing off, but no, it has been Gish Gallop and JAQing off the whole way.

It was interesting to see that Bob got self conscious about how obvious his JAQing off was, and quit numbering his JAQoffs. But the JAQ's kept coming, just no longer numbered.

Also Bob's deftness at quickly moving to another subject (usually an earlier non seqitor of his which was no longer under examination) when it was obvious he could no longer defend his tissue thin "counter evidence". And to no surprise his "counter evidence" was almost always just another JAQoff.

Really very educational stuff. Thanks to Matthew, Rich, and the others for having the patience to expose Bob's complete lack of rationality, and his blind determination to deny a tragic facet of history that he, for undetermined reasons (but one can geuss), refuses to accept.
My name is not Donna.

User avatar
Donnageddon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:07 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Donnageddon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:06 am

Also thanks to OutOfBreath for asking those 4 questions that finally got Bob to admit he is a Holocaust Denier.

That exposes the other technique Bob relied on. Always be on the offensive, never defense, by claiming that his countries laws prevent him from stating his beliefs.

Well, he finally stated that clearly enough. After that he was finished. He had no where to go, but into defense... and he of course has none. You can't JAQ off a defense.
My name is not Donna.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:11 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bob wrote:Why Lukaszkiewicz had no problems to dig alleged mass graves? How can you explain it?
Because the Treblinka Memorial Trust did not exist when Lukaszkiewicz did his investigation. The Jewish victims of Treblinka now have an advocate as to their posthumous rights. Next question?

But the news gets worse for "Bob" and "David" and their silly cult. Caroline Colls said....
"I really hope this is the first stage in a long-term programme to seek out those hidden graves of the Holocaust." so there is more to come.
The alleged jewish law was first accepted after the WW2 by Treblinka memorial trust? This is want you to tell me?
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Bob wrote: Hm, but I asked you one simple question and you completely dodged it, so here is again.
I have answered this question three times and Bob is pretending to forget the answer just like David does.....
Bob wrote: Matthew spoke about Zabecki´s records, Zabecki told, that he counted them and no doubt - 1,200,000, Matthew told me that they are stored somewhere in Warsawa and they exist.
WRONG. Zabecki also had telexes and train movement logs sent to him as he was station master at Treblinka. I gave you the location of these files in Seidlce in Poland. Zebecki said 1,200,000 people entered Treblinka. Zabecki was Station Master for the entire war.

The Hofle Telegram was recovered only in 2000. It is an internal SS German that confirms that 713,555 people were sent to Treblinka BEFORE 30th December 1942.

Watch Bob list historians, below, who wrote books before 2000, without the information contained in the Hofle telegram.....

Bob wrote:Can you please tell me, how is possible that the current death toll varies from 200,000 (Pressac, 1995 pp. 640f.) to 870,000 (Gutman, EH, 1990, vol. 4, p. 1486) when Zabecki collected records which prove 1,200,000 according to his testimony and according to claims from Matthew and that they are real and exist?[/b].
Bob is mixing up early reports and different cut off dates although I already informed him about this a day ago. Bob is simply trying it on again.....just like David, as they are holocaust deniers.
Still the same rant, adress my questions please.

Number of victims is still the same after reales of Hofle telegram, the peak is still 870,000 Hofle telegram didn´t play part in it, you are wrong again.

User avatar
Donnageddon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:07 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Donnageddon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:18 am

Bob, we're on to you buddy! You're finished here.

Go try another forum where people don't know you are just another run of the mill Holocaust Denier with a sad bag of HD tricks.
My name is not Donna.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:28 am

Donnageddon wrote:This whole thread has been fascinating. I've never followed a Halocaust Denier at his craft before.

I was wondering if Bob would ever use any other tool beyond the Gish Gallop and JAQing off, but no, it has been Gish Gallop and JAQing off the whole way.

It was interesting to see that Bob got self conscious about how obvious his JAQing off was, and quit numbering his JAQoffs. But the JAQ's kept coming, just no longer numbered.

Also Bob's deftness at quickly moving to another subject (usually an earlier non seqitor of his which was no longer under examination) when it was obvious he could no longer defend his tissue thin "counter evidence". And to no surprise his "counter evidence" was almost always just another JAQoff.

Really very educational stuff. Thanks to Matthew, Rich, and the others for having the patience to expose Bob's complete lack of rationality, and his blind determination to deny a tragic facet of history that he, for undetermined reasons (but one can geuss), refuses to accept.
thanks my friend, i really have no stake in holocaust ww2 stuff, i wasnt born, i dont know a great deal about it, its not really a subject ive ever bothered with before as its never really featured much on other boards ive been on, i usually just deal with ufo/paranormal claimants but just had a look on here out of curiosity and spotted what bob was up to.

anyone can play bobs game by setting themselves up in a position they know they cant lose, but it will never achieve anything but his own silly self satisfaction.

bobs already admitted in his own words that he wont accept evidence from local debaters, he also likes to use the "wall of text" excuse every time theres points he cant answer, funny because ive not seen a wall of text from anyone yet...

so my question is, if bob wont accept anything from local debaters then what the hell is he doing here and whats the point of all this?

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:33 am

A week passed, anybody want to present some evidence? Nobody was able to present even one single proof.

Still nothing.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:40 am

yes bob, you should feel extremely pleased with yourself that your kangaroo court achieved its goal... you can go now, safe in the knowledge that in your mind the holocaust never happened.

bye

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:43 am

Where I said that holocaust never happened? Another lie.

So this Rich comment means propably "no proof" ok, I thought it.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:53 am

i love the way you keep putting things into peoples mouths just to satisfy your own crackpot theories......

so ok then bob, if you accept the holocaust did happen then why are you here asking for evidence?

if you believed it then you wouldnt be doing such a thing.

what is your stance. did the holocaust happen or not? no dodging.


thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:31 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:i love the way you keep putting things into peoples mouths just to satisfy your own crackpot theories......

so ok then bob, if you accept the holocaust did happen then why are you here asking for evidence?

if you believed it then you wouldnt be doing such a thing.

what is your stance. did the holocaust happen or not? no dodging.


thanks

rich
You are hardly serious, ok here it is
that in your mind the holocaust never happened.
Yeah, is fantastic how could you know that in my mind holocaust never happend when I didn´t write anything like that. Can you tell me?

I did not ask for proof for holocaust, I asked about three simple question and they contain no "holocaust" word, after one week, you still don´t know what is subject of this thread.

I don´t believe in gassings, mass shootings or plan to exterminate, but even without it holocaust could happen, yes why not when someone want to call it holocaust anyway, why not, but isn´t propably cool enough without the things above.

Funny, I have no problem adress every your funny question, but you...not.

User avatar
Donnageddon
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1047
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:07 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Donnageddon » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:48 am

Bob wrote:A week passed, anybody want to present some evidence? Nobody was able to present even one single proof.

Still nothing.
It is fascinating the way Bob's mind works. Simply amazing.
Bob wrote:Where I said that holocaust never happened? Another lie.


Do you think he even knows what the title of this forum is?
My name is not Donna.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:49 am

lmao. this is hilarious, do you even know what the holocaust is?
The Holocaust(from the Greek ὁλόκαυστοςholókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[2]also known as the Shoah(Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churbenor Hurban,[3]from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, throughout Nazi-occupied territory

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so bob, holocaust is the plan to exterminate, you say in your own words that you dont believe in plan to exterminate therefore you dont believe in the holocaust.... duuuur, you arent very smart are you?
Bob wrote: I don´t believe in gassings, mass shootings or plan to exterminate, but even without it holocaust could happen, yes why not when someone want to call it holocaust anyway, why not, but isn´t propably cool enough without the things above.

you only avoid the word holocaust so as to not paint yourself into a corner....

so bob, simple question, no dodging, no strawmen. do you or do you not believe in the holocaust?

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:01 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:lmao. this is hilarious, do you even know what the holocaust is?
The Holocaust(from the Greek ὁλόκαυστοςholókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[2]also known as the Shoah(Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churbenor Hurban,[3]from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, throughout Nazi-occupied territory

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so bob, holocaust is the plan to exterminate, you say in your own words that you dont believe in plan to exterminate therefore you dont believe in the holocaust.... duuuur, you arent very smart are you?
No worry i know how is defined holocaust, but this is not my problem, sorry.
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:
Bob wrote: I don´t believe in gassings, mass shootings or plan to exterminate, but even without it holocaust could happen, yes why not when someone want to call it holocaust anyway, why not, but isn´t propably cool enough without the things above.


you only avoid the word holocaust so as to not paint yourself into a corner....

so bob, simple question, no dodging, no strawmen. do you or do you not believe in the holocaust?

thanks

rich
I did not avoid it, i just don´t simply care, I am interested only in these three points and in certain aspects, everything else is no problem for me.

Your question was answered Rich.

Funny when you speak about dodging or strawman and dodged your proved lie again.

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:05 am

bob, stop avoiding my question.
do you or do you not believe in the holocaust?

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:43 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:bob, stop avoiding my question.
do you or do you not believe in the holocaust?

thanks

rich
Pardon, in which holocaust? There is not only one jewish holocaust and your wiki is down temporarily, so I answer:

I don´t believe in Jewish holocaust after World War I in 1919.
http://balder.org/judea/billeder-judea/ ... illion.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Simple, you got your answer, now I will await your classic rant about how I dodged your question : D





Heh, ok, here is correct answer so will not gone mad.

If holocaust after WW2 can´t exist without these points:

1)that Jews were gassed in nazi gas chambers
2)that nazis had policy to physically exterminate all Jews
3)that nazis physically exterminated six million Jews and additional five or six million non-Jews

So I must say i don´t believe in it, simple

No dodging, what pity that you dodged everything, no wonder.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34971
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Gord » Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:52 am

Bob wrote:You can´t prove it, this is only relevant thing.
I don't need to prove it, it's the only relevant thing.
Gord wrote:Your statement is a non sequitur. It does not follow that 2 hectares of human ash proves alien abductions.
Lukaszkiewicz - I saw two hectares of ashes mixture with sand. (funny, you still parrot Matthew false claim, it is mixture, not ash alone)
It's not parroting, it's talking. Lukaszkiewicz saw two hecares of human ashes. Two hectares is 20,000 square meters, which means it is a two-dimensional measurement and does not take depth into account. That's all there is to it.
Victim of aliens - I saw alien ship, I was abducted.

Tell me please, where is difference?
Lukaszkiewicz saw two hectares of human ashes, not a space ship.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
Multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.
You edited my response, really honest
No I didn't, I have no way to edit your posts.
you are wrong: No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
You are wrong, multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.
I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
You speaking about guessing is a strawman. You brought it up, and now you're arguing about it as if I brought it up -- that is by definition a strawman argument, and you are the one making it.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
"Correct guess," very funny. Maybe his psychic powers will tell him, yes?
No just several simple drills in area to arrive to some guess about thickness of whole area.
You want proof, now you want guesses. I'm sorry, you don't seem to know what you want.
This is somewhat hard to understand for you
No no, I understood completely. You are trying to dismiss all evidence as "unproven," but you judge it yourself and grant yourself wide privileges when it comes to dismissing what you don't want to hear. Nobody wants to help you in your wanking pleasures.
Gord wrote:I'm the one doing the speaking here, so no strawman. I speak about what I speak about, and you try to twist it. That's how this works, remember?
I hope that at least you understand to this.
Of course I understand it, I'm the one who said it. I wish you understood it, though.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You lied as i proved you with your own source Lukaszkiewicz who had no problem to dig alleged mass graves during his investigation.
I didn't lie, you simply don't know how to understand English.
You didn´t lie?
Correct.
Gord wrote:Then again, he might have been put off by the fact that it's against Jewish law to do so.
Here Lukaszkiewicz:
"The work was continued, with 36 workers who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone."

"At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the bottom of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel. By additional digging we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit."

Lukaszkiewicz
Clear, you are liar
I am not a liar, you are a liar for calling me a liar. I offered one possibility. The word "might" is clearly present at the beginning of my statement. Or is it simply that you do not understand English very well? If that is the case, then I forgive you.

You will also note your own example has demonstrated your own lie that multiple digs would not be necessary to determine depths of layered materials.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie.
I'm not on anyone's side. The only lies I've seen are from you. You're repeatedly lied in your claims that others have lied.
Interesting, you automatically identified yourself as a member of orthodox side
I have not identified myself as a member of a side. Your assertation that I did is an outright lie.
Surely you can quote one my lie, let see.
I can quote several of your lies, watch:

"You are a liar."
"You automatically identified yourself as a member of orthodox side."
"This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie." [that one has MULTIPLE lies!]

I assume this will not satisfy you, because you will dismiss your own lies as if they are truths which need not be defended. Alas, logic does not work that way.
Gord wrote:Mine is not an opinion, it's the obvious conclusion. Your demand is that more was done, and you dismiss as unimportant that which was done. You do not have the authority to ascertain what was and was not important to the investigator.
You are not familiar with logic as I see.
I am very familiar with logic, but you are not, as I'm sure anyone reading this has seen.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You didn´t tell me about evidence
Yes I did.
You did not present anything.
I told you about evidence.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:what you have presented is not evidence
Yes it is.
You did not present anything.
I presented information.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:you only considered it as an evidence and didn´t explained why and how can you back it up, you didn´t prove it
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence.
Because? I am all ears...
I don't believe you.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:simple again, word alleged was correct again.
Your simplistic reasoning is, once again, false. It is not alleged evidence, it is evidence.
Same as above. You still speak about something what isn´t here.
No, I only speak about what is there. You are the one who wants it all to go away.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can only wonder what you consider as faulty logic
One need not wonder at all, I consider your faulty logic faulty. The evidence is in your previous posts. You can, of course, deny it to your heart's content.
You of course can quote one example of faulty logic....
Yes. You think you are in a court of law.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can even more wonder what you consider as correct logic, let me guess - your logic or logic of orthodox historians, am I right?
I consider correct logic correct, and incorrect logic to be faulty logic. As you like to say, "simple."
Well, let me guess, your logic and "believer" logic is correct, "denier" logic is false, correct?
If you are "believer" and I am "denier," then no. If I am "believer" and you are "denier," then yes.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:00 am

lol, make your mind up bob, one minute you say you dont deny the holocaust and it can happen without those things, then you say it cant happen without those things, are you having a mental breakdown? you appear to be struggling under pressure here mate.
Bob wrote: f holocaust after WW2 can´t exist without these points:

1)that Jews were gassed in nazi gas chambers
2)that nazis had policy to physically exterminate all Jews
3)that nazis physically exterminated six million Jews and additional five or six million non-Jews
So I must say i don´t believe in it,
simple
Bob wrote:Yeah, is fantastic how could you know that in my mind holocaust never happend when I didn´t write anything like that.
Can you tell me?

I did not ask for proof for holocaust, I asked about three simple question and they contain no "holocaust" word, after one week, you still don´t know what is subject of this thread.

I don´t believe in gassings, mass shootings or plan to exterminate, but even without it holocaust could happen, yes why not when someone want to call it holocaust anyway, why not, but isn´t propably cool enough without the things above.
Funny, I have no problem adress every your funny question, but you...not.Bob




what have i avoided? iive already told you many many many times that im neither a believer nor a denier, ive never ever stated my stance on the holocaust or ww2.

you just make things up as you go along....

thanks

rich

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:16 am

Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You can´t prove it, this is only relevant thing.
I don't need to prove it, it's the only relevant thing.
Gord wrote:Your statement is a non sequitur. It does not follow that 2 hectares of human ash proves alien abductions.
Lukaszkiewicz - I saw two hectares of ashes mixture with sand. (funny, you still parrot Matthew false claim, it is mixture, not ash alone)
It's not parroting, it's talking. Lukaszkiewicz saw two hecares of human ashes. Two hectares is 20,000 square meters, which means it is a two-dimensional measurement and does not take depth into account. That's all there is to it.
Victim of aliens - I saw alien ship, I was abducted.

Tell me please, where is difference?
Lukaszkiewicz saw two hectares of human ashes, not a space ship.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
Multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.
You edited my response, really honest
No I didn't, I have no way to edit your posts.
you are wrong: No digging of whole area needed you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine thickness.
You are wrong, multiple digs would be necessary, you obviously have no clue about what is needed to determine depths of layered materials.
I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
You speaking about guessing is a strawman. You brought it up, and now you're arguing about it as if I brought it up -- that is by definition a strawman argument, and you are the one making it.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:I also spoke about "correct guess" of thickness and not about exact thickness of whole area, so strawman from you.
"Correct guess," very funny. Maybe his psychic powers will tell him, yes?
No just several simple drills in area to arrive to some guess about thickness of whole area.
You want proof, now you want guesses. I'm sorry, you don't seem to know what you want.
This is somewhat hard to understand for you
No no, I understood completely. You are trying to dismiss all evidence as "unproven," but you judge it yourself and grant yourself wide privileges when it comes to dismissing what you don't want to hear. Nobody wants to help you in your wanking pleasures.
Gord wrote:I'm the one doing the speaking here, so no strawman. I speak about what I speak about, and you try to twist it. That's how this works, remember?
I hope that at least you understand to this.
Of course I understand it, I'm the one who said it. I wish you understood it, though.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You lied as i proved you with your own source Lukaszkiewicz who had no problem to dig alleged mass graves during his investigation.
I didn't lie, you simply don't know how to understand English.
You didn´t lie?
Correct.
Gord wrote:Then again, he might have been put off by the fact that it's against Jewish law to do so.
Here Lukaszkiewicz:
"The work was continued, with 36 workers who had been commandeered for roadwork. At a depth of 6 meters begins a layer which has never before been uncovered by anyone."

"At a depth of 7 meters, we reached the bottom of the pit – a layer of yellow sand which is not mixed with gravel. By additional digging we succeeded in determining the shape of the pit."

Lukaszkiewicz
Clear, you are liar
I am not a liar, you are a liar for calling me a liar. I offered one possibility. The word "might" is clearly present at the beginning of my statement. Or is it simply that you do not understand English very well? If that is the case, then I forgive you.

You will also note your own example has demonstrated your own lie that multiple digs would not be necessary to determine depths of layered materials.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie.
I'm not on anyone's side. The only lies I've seen are from you. You're repeatedly lied in your claims that others have lied.
Interesting, you automatically identified yourself as a member of orthodox side
I have not identified myself as a member of a side. Your assertation that I did is an outright lie.
Surely you can quote one my lie, let see.
I can quote several of your lies, watch:

"You are a liar."
"You automatically identified yourself as a member of orthodox side."
"This is insane, almost all peoples from orthodox side have lied here, some repeatedly, the only exception is Nessie." [that one has MULTIPLE lies!]

I assume this will not satisfy you, because you will dismiss your own lies as if they are truths which need not be defended. Alas, logic does not work that way.
Gord wrote:Mine is not an opinion, it's the obvious conclusion. Your demand is that more was done, and you dismiss as unimportant that which was done. You do not have the authority to ascertain what was and was not important to the investigator.
You are not familiar with logic as I see.
I am very familiar with logic, but you are not, as I'm sure anyone reading this has seen.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:You didn´t tell me about evidence
Yes I did.
You did not present anything.
I told you about evidence.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:what you have presented is not evidence
Yes it is.
You did not present anything.
I presented information.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:you only considered it as an evidence and didn´t explained why and how can you back it up, you didn´t prove it
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence.
Because? I am all ears...
I don't believe you.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:simple again, word alleged was correct again.
Your simplistic reasoning is, once again, false. It is not alleged evidence, it is evidence.
Same as above. You still speak about something what isn´t here.
No, I only speak about what is there. You are the one who wants it all to go away.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can only wonder what you consider as faulty logic
One need not wonder at all, I consider your faulty logic faulty. The evidence is in your previous posts. You can, of course, deny it to your heart's content.
You of course can quote one example of faulty logic....
Yes. You think you are in a court of law.
Gord wrote:
Bob wrote:One can even more wonder what you consider as correct logic, let me guess - your logic or logic of orthodox historians, am I right?
I consider correct logic correct, and incorrect logic to be faulty logic. As you like to say, "simple."
Well, let me guess, your logic and "believer" logic is correct, "denier" logic is false, correct?
If you are "believer" and I am "denier," then no. If I am "believer" and you are "denier," then yes.
I will adress only some of your gems:
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence
Because?
I don't believe you.
mmm.

saw two hecares of human ashes
Dear Gord, you are still off, he saw "mixture of sand and ash" as he wrote this in his report which is quoted in this thread.

At least, you did not spoke about not possible drillings and stopped your usual nonsenses about it and dodged questions again, 2 hecaters of ashes mixture with sand in 1,4 hectare area, this must be done with "germans method"

Anyway, thanks for your posts.

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:23 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:lol, make your mind up bob, one minute you say you dont deny the holocaust and it can happen without those things, then you say it cant happen without those things, are you having a mental breakdown? you appear to be struggling under pressure here mate.
Bob wrote: f holocaust after WW2 can´t exist without these points:

1)that Jews were gassed in nazi gas chambers
2)that nazis had policy to physically exterminate all Jews
3)that nazis physically exterminated six million Jews and additional five or six million non-Jews
So I must say i don´t believe in it,
simple
Bob wrote:Yeah, is fantastic how could you know that in my mind holocaust never happend when I didn´t write anything like that.
Can you tell me?

I did not ask for proof for holocaust, I asked about three simple question and they contain no "holocaust" word, after one week, you still don´t know what is subject of this thread.

I don´t believe in gassings, mass shootings or plan to exterminate, but even without it holocaust could happen, yes why not when someone want to call it holocaust anyway, why not, but isn´t propably cool enough without the things above.
Funny, I have no problem adress every your funny question, but you...not.Bob




what have i avoided? iive already told you many many many times that im neither a believer nor a denier, ive never ever stated my stance on the holocaust or ww2.

you just make things up as you go along....

thanks

rich
lol, make your mind up bob, one minute you say you dont deny the holocaust and it can happen without those things, then you say it cant happen without those things, are you having a mental breakdown? you appear to be struggling under pressure here mate.
Yeah, this is still truth, because I clearly answered from my point of view and not from point of view of orthodox definition of holocaust, I already said that I don´t care about definition. Sorry but you act like some kid.

I said something about believer or denier regarding your person in my last comments? What are you talking about? where did you see it man?

RICH-ENGLAND
Poster
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:20 pm

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:33 am

you said i avoided something, i havent avoided anything because i have no stance on the holocaust, im simply taking your disengenuous behaviour to task.

glad you have finally admitted that youre a holocaust denier. after all that bs that you was scared...

it now makes a mockery of a lot of your defence for avoiding answering certain questions, youre going to find it harder to avoid things now your position is clear.

thanks

rich

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34971
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Gord » Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:51 am

Bob wrote:
I didn't need to prove it, it's evidence
Because?
Because.
I don't believe you.
mmm.
What are you sucking on?
saw two hecares of human ashes
Dear Gord, you are still off, he saw "mixture of sand and ash" as he wrote this in his report which is quoted in this thread.
That's right, two hectares of human ashes.
At least, you did not spoke about not possible drillings
Actually, I did speak on it, and showed you once again how you were wrong. I guess you just didn't understand it.

Anyway, thanks for your posts.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:18 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:lol, make your mind up bob, one minute you say you don't deny the holocaust and it can happen without those things, then you say it cant happen without those things, are you having a mental breakdown? you appear to be struggling under pressure here mate.
Even more fun was Bob quoted and linked to CODOH, the holocaust deniers forum, for holocaust deniers. Our "Bob" is a 100% holocaust denier.

Bob gave a CODOH "citation" indicating that carbon monoxide victims are "cherry red". They are indeed, but only for four days. This is meant to disrupt the commandant of Treblinka, Stangl's, confession
"I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses"

Firstly, carbon monoxide gassing victims turn blue-black after four days. The CODOH citation leaves this information out for holocaust denial propaganda purposes. Secondly, we know the pits with bodies were left open from the testimony from a slave worker at Treblinka who put the bodies into the pits, called Abraham Krzepicki
The graves remained open through the night and the next day more bodies were piled into them. While I was in Treblinka, only the small ditch to the left, where I had worked on the first day, was closed. By the time we came out there in the morning, the excavator was already in operation, and digging out new giant graves

Our "Bob"s hypothesis needs that, the commanding officer of Treblinka and a Jewish slave worker made sure they had collaborating stories, that matched other SS officers and Jewish slave worker's testimonies, so as to fake the holocaust. This is clearly insane. This is why "Bob" won't ever set out his "alternative theory" in detail.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:14 am

Bob wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:Pardon me, Dan, for butting in on your list, but I would make it even easier for him.

1. Does he believe that at least hundreds of thousands of non-combatants died in concentration camps?
2. Does he believe that it was Nazi policy to kill them?

Just number 1. alone would imho constitute a Holocaust, and 2. indicates that it wasn't just a random act of God like a tsunami.

The other questions may just provide room for the insertion of red herrings and straw men to confuse the issue, even though I am personally convinced they are true.
1)Yes, hundreds of thousands of peoples died in the camps as the German records proved.

2)I don´t believe in this.

You aren´t propably able to show me some proof since you ask me instead of adressing the subject of this thread which isn´t about me, but could you be at least honest to answer these qustions?

1)Do you believe that hundreds of thousands non-combatants died in American, British or Soviet camps?

2)What is difference between dying of non-combatants in German, American, British and Soviet camps?

3)Do you believe in American, British or Soviet policy to kill them?
Okay, we disagree on my point #2, but none of your three points are germane to the issue at hand.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:17 am

RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you said i avoided something, i havent avoided anything because i have no stance on the holocaust, im simply taking your disengenuous behaviour to task.

glad you have finally admitted that youre a holocaust denier. after all that bs that you was scared...

it now makes a mockery of a lot of your defence for avoiding answering certain questions, youre going to find it harder to avoid things now your position is clear.

thanks

rich
Another strawman, according to you don´t believe = deny. I wasn´t scared, simply another strawman from you. Every questions were answered, you avoided every.

So try these please at least.

1)Do you believe that nazi homocidal gas chambers did exists?
2)Do you believe that nazi homicidal steam chambers did exist?
3)Do you believe that nazi homicidal diesel gas chambers did exist?

4)Do you believe that holocaust did happen?

Answer please, thanks.
Tom-Palven wrote:
Bob wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:Pardon me, Dan, for butting in on your list, but I would make it even easier for him.

1. Does he believe that at least hundreds of thousands of non-combatants died in concentration camps?
2. Does he believe that it was Nazi policy to kill them?

Just number 1. alone would imho constitute a Holocaust, and 2. indicates that it wasn't just a random act of God like a tsunami.

The other questions may just provide room for the insertion of red herrings and straw men to confuse the issue, even though I am personally convinced they are true.
1)Yes, hundreds of thousands of peoples died in the camps as the German records proved.

2)I don´t believe in this.

You aren´t propably able to show me some proof since you ask me instead of adressing the subject of this thread which isn´t about me, but could you be at least honest to answer these qustions?

1)Do you believe that hundreds of thousands non-combatants died in American, British or Soviet camps?

2)What is difference between dying of non-combatants in German, American, British and Soviet camps?

3)Do you believe in American, British or Soviet policy to kill them?
Okay, we disagree on my point #2, but none of your three points are germane to the issue at hand.
You refuse to answer, ok, I expected it.


Matthew, another fasle claims, again and again.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:44 am

Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you said i avoided something, i havent avoided anything because i have no stance on the holocaust, im simply taking your disengenuous behaviour to task.

glad you have finally admitted that youre a holocaust denier. after all that bs that you was scared...

it now makes a mockery of a lot of your defence for avoiding answering certain questions, youre going to find it harder to avoid things now your position is clear.

thanks

rich
Another strawman, according to you don´t believe = deny. I wasn´t scared, simply another strawman from you. Every questions were answered, you avoided every.

So try these please at least.

1)Do you believe that nazi homocidal gas chambers did exists?
2)Do you believe that nazi homicidal steam chambers did exist?
3)Do you believe that nazi homicidal diesel gas chambers did exist?

4)Do you believe that holocaust did happen?

Answer please, thanks.
Tom-Palven wrote:
Bob wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:Pardon me, Dan, for butting in on your list, but I would make it even easier for him.

1. Does he believe that at least hundreds of thousands of non-combatants died in concentration camps?
2. Does he believe that it was Nazi policy to kill them?

Just number 1. alone would imho constitute a Holocaust, and 2. indicates that it wasn't just a random act of God like a tsunami.

The other questions may just provide room for the insertion of red herrings and straw men to confuse the issue, even though I am personally convinced they are true.
1)Yes, hundreds of thousands of peoples died in the camps as the German records proved.

2)I don´t believe in this.

You aren´t propably able to show me some proof since you ask me instead of adressing the subject of this thread which isn´t about me, but could you be at least honest to answer these qustions?

1)Do you believe that hundreds of thousands non-combatants died in American, British or Soviet camps?

2)What is difference between dying of non-combatants in German, American, British and Soviet camps?

3)Do you believe in American, British or Soviet policy to kill them?
Okay, we disagree on my point #2, but none of your three points are germane to the issue at hand.
You refuse to answer, ok, I expected it.


Matthew, another fasle claims, again and again.
From Dictionary.com in case you don't know the meaning of "germane:"

ger·mane   /dʒərˈmeɪn/ Show Spelled[jer-meyn] Show IPA
adjective
1. closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent: Please keep your statements germane to the issue.
2. Obsolete . closely related.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot

Bob
Regular Poster
Posts: 666
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:41 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Bob » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:05 pm

Tom-Palven wrote:
Bob wrote:
RICH-ENGLAND wrote:you said i avoided something, i havent avoided anything because i have no stance on the holocaust, im simply taking your disengenuous behaviour to task.

glad you have finally admitted that youre a holocaust denier. after all that bs that you was scared...

it now makes a mockery of a lot of your defence for avoiding answering certain questions, youre going to find it harder to avoid things now your position is clear.

thanks

rich
Another strawman, according to you don´t believe = deny. I wasn´t scared, simply another strawman from you. Every questions were answered, you avoided every.

So try these please at least.

1)Do you believe that nazi homocidal gas chambers did exists?
2)Do you believe that nazi homicidal steam chambers did exist?
3)Do you believe that nazi homicidal diesel gas chambers did exist?

4)Do you believe that holocaust did happen?

Answer please, thanks.
Tom-Palven wrote:
Bob wrote:
Tom-Palven wrote:Pardon me, Dan, for butting in on your list, but I would make it even easier for him.

1. Does he believe that at least hundreds of thousands of non-combatants died in concentration camps?
2. Does he believe that it was Nazi policy to kill them?

Just number 1. alone would imho constitute a Holocaust, and 2. indicates that it wasn't just a random act of God like a tsunami.

The other questions may just provide room for the insertion of red herrings and straw men to confuse the issue, even though I am personally convinced they are true.
1)Yes, hundreds of thousands of peoples died in the camps as the German records proved.

2)I don´t believe in this.

You aren´t propably able to show me some proof since you ask me instead of adressing the subject of this thread which isn´t about me, but could you be at least honest to answer these qustions?

1)Do you believe that hundreds of thousands non-combatants died in American, British or Soviet camps?

2)What is difference between dying of non-combatants in German, American, British and Soviet camps?

3)Do you believe in American, British or Soviet policy to kill them?
Okay, we disagree on my point #2, but none of your three points are germane to the issue at hand.
You refuse to answer, ok, I expected it.


Matthew, another fasle claims, again and again.
From Dictionary.com in case you don't know the meaning of "germane:"

ger·mane   /dʒərˈmeɪn/ Show Spelled[jer-meyn] Show IPA
adjective
1. closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent: Please keep your statements germane to the issue.
2. Obsolete . closely related.
Tom, no need to use excuse why not to answer, I have understanding for it, is obvious why don´t want to answer, no need to make excuses.

Tom Palven
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Can you show me some proof/s?

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:16 pm

[/quote]
From Dictionary.com in case you don't know the meaning of "germane:"

ger·mane   /dʒərˈmeɪn/ Show Spelled[jer-meyn] Show IPA
adjective
1. closely or significantly related; relevant; pertinent: Please keep your statements germane to the issue.
2. Obsolete . closely related.[/quote]

Tom, no need to use excuse why not to answer, I have understanding for it, is obvious why don´t want to answer, no need to make excuses.[/quote]

Whew! I'm off the hook. Thanks, Bob. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire
I may not agree with the what you say, but I will defend your right to say it. --Voltaire
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. --Denis Diderot
I haven't abandoned my vices. My vices have abandoned me. --Denis Diderot