Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

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Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:07 am

Is David lying again?
David the dodging holocaust denier wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
The Problem
David has refused to provide any evidence for this claim. Therefore our aim is to do some research before accusing David of lying again.

The claim is rather extraordinary because Mi6 distributed propaganda to foreign nationals operating in wartime Britain, yet in 1943 Mi6 did not know the "tag" "Action Reinhardt" and this is why the Hofle Telegram ( confirming executions at Treblinka) was missed in 1943. ( Few people are aware that George Orwell was a Mi6 officer wrote the scripts for the BBC's foreign broadcasts from a room he shared with AJP Taylor, another Mi6 officer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


What other Holocaust deniers claim
Another holocaust denier, Thomas Kues, states that the only person being used by the British for propaganda was Thomas Mann who in September 1942 broadcast the claim that Goebbels had made the following statement It is our goal [...] to exterminate [auszurotten] the Jews. Regardless if we win or loose the war, we must, and will, reach this goal. Should the German army be forced to retreat, it would on its way back eliminate [vertilgen] the last Jews from the face of the earth.”
Obviously, this has nothing to do with Treblinka and does not match David's story.
http://www.revblog.codoh.com/2010/08/th ... legations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the CODOH holocaust denial forums, a member claims to hold a copy of the The Menorah Journal, vol.XXXI, no.3, Oct-Dec 1943, p.284-295 "There were 3,130,000 Jews in Poland before this war, or nearly 10% of the total population, according to the statistics compiled in 1938. Today it is estimated that less than 300,000 Polish Jews have survived. The secret Polish radio station Swit stated in June this year - after the final destruction of the Warsaw ghetto - that the Germans had exterminated 90% of the Jews in Poland, and that the remaining 10% were being systematically murdered in the gas chambers at Treblinka, the death-camp, about thirty miles north-east of Warsaw, which the Germans constructed in March-April, 1942.
This doesn't match David's story either as it is a year later and from a magazine from New York.

Checking other conventional Sources
I have double checked Film & radio propaganda in World War II By Kenneth R. M. Short and there is on mention of Radio Maria in any of the frequencies allocated to "black" or "grey" (proxy controlled) radio stations, however I accept that a military polish radio frequency may have been used to broadcast a military show called "Maria" but I cannot find any evidence.

On 8AUG43, the New York Times published an "authoritative eyewitness account" of the "steam chambers" of Treblinka. However this is neither a radio station and is a year late.

Can David back up his story?
Before accusing David of lying again I offer him the right to back up his story. Lets see what he does.......

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:12 am

David's claim is a complete fabrication. The Polish government in exile never ran any radio station called radio Maria or Maryja Mi6 has no record of radio Mariaor Maryja, The National Achives have no record of Radio Mariaor Maryja and the wartime "Ministry of information" has no record of Radio Maria or Maryja .

David has mixed up stories from the post war anti-communist POLISH radio station "Radio Mayja" and added stories about "steam gassings"

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:10 am

The worst thing is death in Treblinka. By now, all know of Treblinka. There they cook people alive. They know by now that Bigan has escaped from Treblinka. [...]

He [Bigan] will build halls like the ones in Treblinka. Everything will be modern: the boilers that are heated by current, the steam-gas in there, the floor movable and sloping. 'There I will drive in the Germans, all naked. Many, many Germans, so that every corner is made use of, every centimeter.' And from the boilers the gaseous steam is conducted through the pipes, the boilers are red, and the steam... a hellish boiling bath. Four minutes suffice, then the floor flap automatically drops down, and the slimy mass of red, curled bodies flows away into the cesspit. And finished, the pits are but filled with chlorine, and there is no more trace of what was once alive. 'All this lasts only seven minutes, you hear me?'"

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:David's claim is a complete fabrication. The Polish government in exile never ran any radio station called radio Maria or Maryja Mi6 has no record of radio Mariaor Maryja, The National "

Yawn- It was not the Polish government in exile- It was the
Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the
Aspidistra radio system.

The broadcasts were in Polish but pretended to be sent
from inside occupied Poland.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:40 am

More on British Radio propaganda-

At it's formation, the Political Warfare Executive inherited the various Research Units, which since the early months of the war had been producing and recording propaganda programmes to be broadcast as propaganda to Germany and the various occupied countries.

As distinct from the printed propaganda, the P.W.E. headquarters having, in 1942, moved to Bush House, the Executive still held possession of the Riding School at Woburn Abbey and here selected staff administered the small clandestine broadcasting teams, the Research Units. These operated from a number of houses in the immediate area and Peter Eckersley was the consultant radio engineer, both to the Government and the associated secret agencies.

P.W.E. policy defined that each R.U. should believe itself unique and thereby not only enjoy the British facilities but also decreed that there should be an individual status for each station, so as to remain untainted by the ideas of others. Staff of the different R.U.s were never allowed to meet and the cars transporting them made use of a complicated series of shuttles, to ensure that their paths never crossed. Even so the system was not infallible and at least on one occasion broadcasters of a certain nationality overheard broadcasters of another in adjoining studios!

Also contravening the secrecy, despite the governments in exile not being told about the black broadcast activities, the Norwegian delegation nevertheless found out and then demanded full control.

http://clutch.open.ac.uk/schools/emerso ... units.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:11 am

David Tells three lies in one post
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Yawn- It was not the Polish government in exile- It was the Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the
Aspidistra radio system.
David the lying holocaust denier last week ..... wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942.
Gosh David....so how did they broadcast in August 1942?
Aspidistra went into service on 8 November 1942, and was in operation throughout the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspidistra_(transmitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Gosh David, so you completely made up the story of "Radio Maria" "August 1942" and "steam chambers" being broadcast in "Polish". Lies just roll off your tongue like other people breathe air. You are the most stupid holocaust denier left.

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: The broadcasts were in Polish but pretended to be sent from inside occupied Poland.
Another complete fabrication as David tells little lies to make his stories seem real!
Aspidistra began reaching an enormous audience in France, operating on a frequency close to the German national "Deutschlandsender" home service.

David you are the worst liar ever....you just can't get anything right!
Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:55 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Treblinka was the major icon of Soviet and British propaganda. It was "where Jews were steamed to death.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: The whole diesel Tale at Treblinka started with British propaganda in August 1942. Now you are stuck with it.
So David, now that I have shown you lying, in the above post, will you now retract these statements or show Roberto and I your "evidence" where you got "August 1942" I am directly accusing you of making these statements up from start to finish.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Yawn- It was not the Polish government in exile- It was the Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the
Aspidistra radio system.
David the lying holocaust denier last week ..... wrote:
The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942.
It takes a twit to mix up "British propaganda radio station"
with Polish Free Government, Bubbles the Believer
Matthew Ellard wrote:Gosh David....even stranger..... how did the Poles listen to Aspidistra as it was broadcast in German!
You are one dumb Believer, matthews.
Aspidistra was the code name of the transmitter...built in the USA.
It was used to broadcast several different radio stations.
The British broadcast black propaganda in over 20 languages, not
just German. :roll: :roll:
Sefton Delmer was the specialist in propaganda directed at Germany,
and a major self-promoter. He has overshadowed the work of other
groups.
In fact, if you read my cite, there were many different national programs
of black propaganda.
There was a specific director of Polish propaganda. Originally it was merged with the Czech unit but separated in 1943.

The British Black propaganda radio broadcasts started before the
Political Warfare Executive was formed. When the Polish
Research Unit was integrated into the PWE is not clear
but it is clear that the RU were broadcasting by early 1942.

http://clutch.open.ac.uk/schools/emerso ... units.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was where the Treblinka propaganda started.
Treblinka was the big Holocaust icon in late 1942.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:12 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: It takes a twit to mix up "British propaganda radio station"
David, as I have pointed out Aspidistra went into service on 8 November 1942. Now let's look at your dates.....
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Yawn- It was not the Polish government in exile- It was the Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the
Aspidistra radio system.
David the lying holocaust denier last week ..... wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942.
So not only did you make up the date but you also made up the name "Maria"
Matthew Ellard wrote:Gosh David....even stranger..... how did the Poles listen to Aspidistra as it was broadcast in German!
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: You are one dumb Believer, matthews.
Poor David.....still not really getting plurals are you?
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: It was used to broadcast several different radio stations. The British broadcast black propaganda in over 20 languages, not
just German.
Most languages were Indian. written by George Orwell and not broadcast on Aspidistra. You are mixing up different facts to hide your silly lie
1) Where does it say Polish language was broadcast on Aspidistra
2) Where does the "polish broadcast" mention "steam chambers" in August 1942?
3) What is Radio Maria?


David the lying holocaust denier wrote: In fact, if you read my cite, there were many different national programs of black propaganda.
Not one of them called "Maria", nor broadcasting in August 1942 nor saying "steam chambers" because you made that story up.

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: There was a specific director of Polish propaganda.
Gosh David, thank you for explaining how the old section V of Mi6 works and avoiding answering my question about August 1942's broadcast.

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: That was where the Treblinka propaganda started. Treblinka was the big Holocaust icon in late 1942.
I see you have dropped "August 1942" as the "Polish" broadcast on "Radio Maria" for a brand new lie.
When was "steam chambers" broadcast on British run Polish radio station in 1942? You made this story up right?
David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Revisionism is an honest review of history which attempts to remove the propaganda and bias. It is not concerned with the effects of the the corrections.
Show me your new "evidence" concerning Polish/British "steam chambers" radio broadcasts in August 1942 ( You can't can you.....lying again......tsk, tsk, tsk)

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:59 am

Radio Maria is a Polish propaganda anti communist radio established in 1991.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Maryja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
now read on.......

David and his changing Story Initial Version
David the lying holocaust denier on July 14th 2008 wrote: The first tale of "extermination" of Jews was broadcast by British propaganda in August 1942. Broadcasting in Polish and pretending to be an Underground radio station based in Poland called Radio Maria a series of reports of Jews being steamed to death were broadcast.


David and his changing Story Version 1
David the lying holocaust denier two weeks ago wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Crap. Roberto and I asked you to produce your evidence of "Radio Maria" broadcasting propaganda in August 1942 and you ran away. Here you are repeating your previous lie although it has been debunked.
David and his changing Story Version 2
David the lying holocaust denier one week ago wrote: It was the Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the Aspidistra radio system.
Matthew Ellard wrote:How did they broadcast in August 1942?
Aspidistra went into service on 8 November 1942, and was in operation throughout the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspidistra_(transmitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
David and his changing Story Version 3
David who can't read the words August or November wrote: Groan....are being stupid to torment me or can't you help yourself? The broadcasts were in August and the tale became an icon after the broadcasts.
On the Aspidistra radio transmitter that didn't operate until November.....care to try again?


David actually reads Matthews Quote for the first time
David the dodging holocaust denier wrote:So, are you pretending that Treblinka was NOT a public issue in November 1942?
I am the person who quoted this date to you and linked you to the date and newspaper. You are the complete moron who lied about "Radio Maria" "August 1942" and Aspidistra broadcasting this before Aspidistra existed.

So David.....why can't you provide any link, citation or even another stupid holocaust denier's blog that mentioned "August 1942" radio broadcasts about Treblinka? Is it because you made it up on the spot like "transit camp" and "soviet munitions reprocessing".

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:48 pm

David who can't find any evidence to back up his claim wrote: The broadcasts were in August and the tale became an icon after the broadcasts.
On the Aspidistra radio transmitter that didn't operate until November.....care to try again?

David (the No Evidence) holocaust denier wrote: The British did have radios before November 1942, Matthew. The propaganda story was made up by the Polish-Czech Research Unit.
So you lied about "Radio Maria", then lied about "Aspidistra", then you lied about a British proxy radio broadcast in "August 1942" concerning Treblinka, you lied about "steam chambers" being part of this broadcast and now you are informing me that the British had radios before November 1942.

That's great David....Nigel West will be thrilled with your insight

So you can't find anything, not a citation nor a blog that backs up your story that Treblinka was mentioned in August 1942. So you are now left with the November 1942 broadcast concerning Treblinka on BBC Radio 1 in English which stated "unconfirmed" and didn't mention steam chambers.


David (the No Evidence) holocaust denier wrote: Rather than hiss and scream, why don't we trace when the Treblinka dieseling tales first appeared in English and American media?
I already have researched it you idiot....that's why I knew you were lying.

David (the No Evidence) holocaust denier wrote:Let's find some articles
I already have the articles and a book on this exact subject. Would you like to review your versions of these articles and tell me what date PRAVDA first published the word "steam chambers"? I already know.

While you are busy "researching" show me what you found to back up your lie that Treblinka was a "transit camp".....No?......can't find anything either......poor poor David, the lying holocaust denier.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:06 am

David's first claim
David the dodging holocaust denier wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish , Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
Matthew Ellard wrote: I already have the articles and a book on this exact subject. Would you like to review your versions of these articles and tell me what date PRAVDA first published the word "steam chambers"? I already know.
David provides his evidence which is completely unrelated to his claim
David, the lying holocaust denier wrote: Claims of "extermination" were being circulated by the British early 24 August 1941, in a radio broadcast, Winston Churchill said: "Whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands – literally scores of thousands – of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police-troops upon the Russian patriots who defend their native soil. "Churchill went on to say, "we are in the presence of a crime without a name."
I see....so in regards to your first three fabrications....
1) It wasn't in Polish ( Churchill didn't speak Polish)
2) Treblinka is not mentioned at all as it was about Belyarussia not Poland
3) Steam chambers are not mentioned at all
4) It has nothing to do with "Radio Maria" or "Aspidistra" but rather the normal home
broadcast of BBC1 for the local Poms.
5) It was about russians and not Jews and Churchill never mentioned Jews.
5) Churchill was paraphrasing GCHQ's intercept of a tranche of radio intercepts regarding SS Florian Geyer (cavalry) brigade's execution of 40,000 citizens in the Minsk oblast in August 1941 .....the signal was intercepted from a listening post in the Barent Sea (suggesting a boat) .....it has.nothing to do with Treblinka which is in Poland.

David the boring holocaust denier wrote: The "public date" of the Treblinka tale was no later than October 29, 1942 when a rally was held in Albert Hall...........
David, I already know all this.....I argue with more intelligent holocaust deniers on JREF on this matter. That's why I knew you were lying in your first three claims.

If you want to impress me go find your evidence that Treblinka was a "transit camp". you pretended you had the "cite" ....so where is it?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:David's first claim
David the dodging holocaust denier wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish , Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
Matthew Ellard wrote: I already have the articles and a book on this exact subject. Would you like to review your versions of these articles and tell me what date PRAVDA first published the word "steam chambers"? I already know.
David provides his evidence which is completely unrelated to his claim
David, the lying holocaust denier wrote: Claims of "extermination" were being circulated by the British early 24 August 1941, in a radio broadcast, Winston Churchill said: "Whole districts are being exterminated. Scores of thousands – literally scores of thousands – of executions in cold blood are being perpetrated by the German police-troops upon the Russian patriots who defend their native soil. "Churchill went on to say, "we are in the presence of a crime without a name."
I see....so in regards to your first three fabrications....
1) It wasn't in Polish ( Churchill didn't speak Polish)
2) Treblinka is not mentioned at all as it was about Belyarussia not Poland
3) Steam chambers are not mentioned at all
4) It has nothing to do with "Radio Maria" or "Aspidistra" but rather the normal home
broadcast of BBC1 for the local Poms.
5) It was about russians and not Jews and Churchill never mentioned Jews.
5) Churchill was paraphrasing GCHQ's intercept of a tranche of radio intercepts regarding SS Florian Geyer (cavalry) brigade's execution of 40,000 citizens in the Minsk oblast in August 1941 .....the signal was intercepted from a listening post in the Barent Sea (suggesting a boat) .....it has.nothing to do with Treblinka which is in Poland.

David the boring holocaust denier wrote: The "public date" of the Treblinka tale was no later than October 29, 1942 when a rally was held in Albert Hall...........
David, I already know all this.....I argue with more intelligent holocaust deniers on JREF on this matter. That's why I knew you were lying in your first three claims.

Snip Matthew's diversionary drivel
Matthew, stop screaming and waiving your arms.
You don't know anything...except after I have taken the time to
point it out to you in detail.

By August 1941 British politicians were looking for justifications for
declaring war and alleging "vast murders."
Within a few weeks British propaganda picked up on the theme and got to work.
As I have pointed out to you, the British did have a large Black Propaganda
system.

As you now admit, Treblinka Steaming and Diesel stories were widely circulating
by the end of 1942. Where do you think the tales came from?
That is within days of the alleged start of killing at Treblinka.

Obviously someone claimed to have SEEN the Steaming of hundreds of
thousands of Jews before November 1942.
Who? Where did the "reports" come from?

Thus, the creation of the Treblinka Steaming and Dieseling Tales follows
an obvious progression.
1. Political justifications (crimes and nameless horrors) for declaring war.
2. Propaganda organs creating the tales based on some information
of actual places,
3. The tale being picked up by the eager media.


Do you have a better explanation? Where do you claim the
"unconfirmed reports" of "steamings" came from?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:03 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Matthew, stop screaming and waiving your arms. You don't know anything...except after I have taken the time to point it out to you in detail.
David's Holocaust Denier Propaganda is debunked by Matthew
You have been spreading unsubstantiated holocaust propaganda on this forum for three years. (ie "Treblinka was a transit camp"). You recently made up a complete fabrication that "The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started and turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks."

I have completely destroyed you on this claim, so you then pretended that a radio speech by Winston Churchill in 1941, concerning Russian citizen executions in Minsk had something to do with Treblinka in Poland....which it didn't. You simply are too stupid to read the Churchill quote "Russian patriots who defend their native soil". Poland isn't in Russia David. Neither is Treblinka.

I enjoy the irony that you are spreading unsubstantiated holocaust denial propaganda but have to lie and pretend Churchill was talking "propaganda" about Treblinka when he wasn't. You are not very bright are you?


Here is the full Churchill quote and surrounding details that you lied about.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide ... taname.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


David makes up more crap
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: By August 1941 British politicians were looking for justifications for declaring war and alleging "vast murders." Within a few weeks British propaganda picked up on the theme and got to work.
No David, Churchill was paraphrasing specific information concerning GCHQ enigma intercepts concerning Minsk.

Lets us read the citation together........
Six weeks before on July 9 British cryptographers broke the "enigma" code used by Berlin to communicate with the Eastern Front. Regular reports from mobile killing squads (the Einsatzgruppen which Churchill called "Police-troops") gave detailed accounts and specific numbers of 'Jews' and 'Jewish Bolshevists' killed in mass at locations throughout the occupied territory of the Soviet Union.

Therefore when Churchill spoke of whole districts being exterminated and "methodical, merciless butchery," he had specific detailed knowledge of locations and magnitude of the ongoing crime being committed by Germany in Ukraine and Russia. Churchill could not reveal the extent of his detailed knowledge without undermining British intelligence, yet he had to say something about a crime being committed
.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide ... taname.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


David thinks Winston Churchill was a Mi6 "black operation"
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: As I have pointed out to you, the British did have a large Black Propaganda system.
Winston Churchill's weekly address, to the realm, in English, on BBC1 is not an Mi6 black propaganda broadcast.



Secret British Propaganda not actually used as propaganda in August 1942
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: As you now admit, Treblinka Steaming and Diesel stories were widely circulating by the end of 1942. Where do you think the tales came from? That is within days of the alleged start of killing at Treblinka.
No David, tsk tsk tsk Nice try. The reports were received by London's Polish Government in Exile in November 1942. If this story was used as British propaganda it must appear on British controlled radio or print doesn't it? Do you know the date this first appeared in press? I already know this date. It's not 1942 in Britain is it?

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Thus, the creation of the Treblinka Steaming and Dieseling Tales follows an obvious progression.
1. Political justifications (crimes and nameless horrors) for declaring war.
(WRONG: GCHQ gave Churchill SS radio intercepts that evidenced that the Germans were executing Russian civilians in Minsk. Churchill informed the public. The war was already ongoing since 1939....or did you forget that little fact)
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: 2. Propaganda organs creating the tales based on some information of actual places,
(WRONG: GCHQ gave Churchill SS radio intercepts that evidenced that the Germans were executing Russian civilians in Minsk. Churchill informed the public.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: 3. The tale being picked up by the eager media.
And what year did the eager media first mention "steam gas chambers David? ( I already know)

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Do you have a better explanation? Where do you claim the "unconfirmed reports" of "steamings" came from?
Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, a member of The London Government in exile, wrote on 14NOV42 in the Black Book of Polish Jewry"The methods applied in this mass extermination are, apart from executions, firing squads, electrocution and lethal gas-chambers. An electrocution station is installed at Belzec camp. and concerning Treblinka's early gas chambers" It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses in this American publication. .


David, you do realise you are mad as a hatter....you keep posting propaganda like "Treblinka was a transit camp" and "Soviet munitions were reprocessed in Treblinka" and "The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942" even though you made these fabrications up. You than claim the holocaust was British "propaganda" and offer a factual radio broadcast about Minsk.

How mad are you?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:"The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started and turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks."

I have completely destroyed you on this claim, so you then pretended that a radio speech by Winston Churchill in 1941, concerning Russian citizen executions in Minsk had something to do with Treblinka in Poland....which it didn't.
You are an odd duck, Matthew-

spending your time creating strawmen to joust with.

The obvious question is

Did the Black Propaganda machinery of the British and Soviets ever
exploit the public anti-Semitic policies of the National Socialists?

There is little on the web about the activities of the
Research Units of the British Black Propaganda except that:
1. a Polish-Czech unit existed,
2. it broadcast propaganda pretending to be an "underground station" in Poland,
3. that the RU's usually created their own propaganda.



So moving along to the other side of the propaganda tale
we are showing that the tales of Steamings and Dieselings
hit the news right after the August broadcasts and
far from being "secret," the tales of mass exterminations
were front page news with governmental proclamations.

As you now admit, Treblinka Steaming and Diesel stories were widely circulating by the end of 1942. Where do you think the tales came from? That is within days of the alleged start of killing at Treblinka.

No David, tsk tsk tsk Nice try. The reports were received by London's Polish Government in Exile in November 1942. If this story was used as British propaganda it must appear on British controlled radio or print doesn't it? Do you know the date this first appeared in press? I already know this date. It's not 1942 in Britain is it?


You are so bogus, Matthew.


Official British BBC propaganda was promoting the Ugly Myth
as early as June 1942.

The BBC reports that 700,000 Jews have been exterminated. Its
information comes from a report smuggled out of Poland by the Jewish Bund in Warsaw.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... _1942.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


In London on 29 October 1942, Christian and Jewish leaders led a public protest against the mass murders of Jews.

And in the New York Times-

HIMMLER PROGRAM KILLS POLISH JEWS; Slaughter of 250,000 in Plan to Wipe Out Half in Country This Year Is Reported REGIME IN LONDON ACTS Officials of Poland Publish Data -- Dr. Wise Gets Check Here by State Department


.By JAMES MacDONALDSpecial Cable to THE NEW YORK TIMES. ();
November 25, 1942,

So, again, where do you think the claims of Steamings and Dieselings
came from? Tales of Mass Electrocutions at Belzec?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:32 am

Since Believers now pretend that there was no Black Propaganda let's look at
some late 1942-1943 propaganda
regarding Steamings at Treblinka
-
-quote-
Now comes the last act of the Treblinka tragedy. The terrorized mass of men, women and children starts on its last road to death. At the head a group of women and children is driven, beaten by the accompanying Germans, whips in their hands. The group is driven ever quicker; ever heavier blows fall upon the heads of the women who are mad with fear and suffering. The cries and laments of the women together with the shouts and curses of the Germans interrupt the silence of the forest. The people finally realize that they are going to their death. At the entrance of death-house No. 1 the chief himself stands, a whip in his hand; beating them in cold blood, he drives the women together with the shouts and curses of the Germans interrupt the silence of the forest. The floors of the chambers are slippery. The victims slip and fall, and they cannot get up for new numbers of forcibly driven victims fall upon them. The chief throws small children into the chambers over the heads of the women. When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.

http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html#Report142" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also cited is the tales of Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, member of the Polish National Council, stated in London on November 15, 1942:

"The methods applied in this mass extermination are, apart from executions, firing squads, electrocution and lethal gas-chambers. An electrocution station is installed at Belzec camp.


So, there you have it....Steamings "reported" by fake Polish radio stations
in August 1942. Detailed tales of Steamings printed in the US
SPONSORED BY MRS. ELEANOR ROOSEVELT, no less, by 1943.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:41 am

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: You are an odd duck, Matthew-
This from the man who fabricates entire stories about Treblinka and then demands $10,000 to provide any evidence.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote:Did the Black Propaganda machinery of the British and Soviets ever exploit the public anti-Semitic policies of the National Socialists?
The British and Soviets openly exploited the anti-semitic policies of the Nazis by using it as evidence against then in court. The propaganda arms of the Ministry of Information, Mi6, and armed forces media services also used the evidence of Nazi atrocities against Nazis. And this is a problem because?.......

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote:There is little on the web about the activities of the Research Units of the British Black Propaganda except that:
There are books on this matter, the UK National archives at Kew Gardens, auto biographies by the actual blokes writing the propaganda and internal records at various UK agencies that are available under the FIO act. You are just lazy.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: So moving along to the other side of the propaganda tale we are showing that the tales of Steamings and Dieselings
hit the news right after the August broadcasts .
Absolute crap. The American newspaper article regarding jews in steam chambers was in November 1942. The August 17th broadcast by Churchill was about Russians in Minsk and nothing to do with Jews. You already know this but are feigning senility to repeat your debunked claims.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Official British BBC propaganda was promoting the Ugly Myth as early as June 1942.
The BBC was informing the public the truth that Germany was exterminating Jews. It did not mention Treblinka or Steam chambers as per your claim.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: So, again, where do you think the claims of Steamings and Dieselings came from?
I have already answered this for you before but one more time for the senile holocaust denier...
Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, a member of The London Government in exile, wrote on 14NOV42 in the Black Book of Polish Jewry"...
The methods applied in this mass extermination are, apart from executions, firing squads, electrocution and lethal gas-chambers. An electrocution station is installed at Belzec camp. and concerning Treblinka's early gas chambers" It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses in this American publication. .

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:45 am

David wrote:Since Believers now pretend that there was no Black Propaganda let's look at some late 1942-1943 propaganda regarding Steamings at Treblinka-
You are insane. I already have discussed this in detail in past posts and given the exact date of publication. READ IT!

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... rt#p232499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: You are an odd duck, Matthew-
This from the man who fabricates entire stories about Treblinka and then demands $10,000 to provide any evidence.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote:Did the Black Propaganda machinery of the British and Soviets ever exploit the public anti-Semitic policies of the National Socialists?
The British and Soviets openly exploited the anti-semitic policies of the Nazis by using it as evidence against then in court. The propaganda arms of the Ministry of Information, Mi6, and armed forces media services also used the evidence of Nazi atrocities against Nazis. And this is a problem because?.......

The problem is you are a Believer goof, Matthew.
So you are claiming that the Steaming tales are true? :roll: :roll:
But then you claim that the Soviets never told lies...and scream out your
faith in the Soap Factories. So you Believe that the Germans steamed
people just like in the Report?


David, the insane holocaust denier wrote:There is little on the web about the activities of the Research Units of the British Black Propaganda except that:

There are books on this matter, the UK National archives at Kew Gardens, auto biographies by the actual blokes writing the propaganda and internal records at various UK agencies that are available under the FIO act. You are just lazy.


Always there with a stupid insult, aren't you Matthew?
Here I am trying to lift you up from your sick diseased fantasies and you
snap at the hand that is educating you. Sorry I can't spend all my time
helping you with your issues.



David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: So moving along to the other side of the propaganda tale we are showing that the tales of Steamings and Dieselings
hit the news right after the August broadcasts .
Absolute crap. The American newspaper article regarding jews in steam chambers was in November 1942. The August 17th broadcast by Churchill was about Russians in Minsk and nothing to do with Jews. You already know this but are feigning senility to repeat your debunked claims.

You have trouble with dates as well as manners, Mat.
British fake radio report of Steamings of Jews in August 1942....
American newspaper article about Steamings of Jews in November 1942.
Are the dots still too far apart for your brain, Believer?

Churchill was frantically looking for excuses to justify Britain's declaration
of War on Germany, if you don't see why that is relevant then....you
are a Believer goof.



David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Official British BBC propaganda was promoting the Ugly Myth as early as June 1942.
The BBC was informing the public the truth that Germany was exterminating Jews. It did not mention Treblinka or Steam chambers as per your claim.

Groan...you really are stupid, Mat. The first propaganda tales were not specific,
just vague ugly tales. The first specific propaganda was in August 1942.
Get it, vague propaganda and ugly claims of "nameless horrors" by
British politicians first....then the gruesome "evidence" of Steamings.

As to your inane claim that , Our propaganda is always True.
Weapons of Mass destruction, vicious attacks by evil North Vietnamese torpedo boats, Remember the Maine.
Got your tin foil hat on, ready to Liberate Libya? :( :(




David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: So, again, where do you think the claims of Steamings and Dieselings came from?
I have already answered this for you before but one more time for the senile holocaust denier...
Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, a member of The London Government in exile, wrote on 14NOV42 in the Black Book of Polish Jewry"...
The methods applied in this mass extermination are, apart from executions, firing squads, electrocution and lethal gas-chambers. An electrocution station is installed at Belzec camp. and concerning Treblinka's early gas chambers" It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses in this American publication. .


And what about "Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses" are you trying to fob off as an answer?
I have been rubbing your face in the absurd impossible and detailed
sh*t of the Jewish Steaming tales of Treblinka circa 1942 and 1943; In the papers,
in government pronouncements, and in gruesome detail in
Eleanor R.'s report on the Black Book of Polish Jewry.

Not identifing the witness is not an answer..."secret reports" is not an answer...
"unconfirmed Reports" is not an answer.
The detailed tales of "electrocution rooms" and Steaming at Treblinka
were the first elaboration of the Ugly Myth. Of course, you Believers
are trying to sweep them under the rug now.


Where did the ugly, detailed, and impossible tales of Treblinka Steamings
come from?
-quote-
When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.


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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:41 am

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: You are an odd duck, Matthew-
Matthew Ellard wrote:This from the man who fabricates entire stories about Treblinka and then demands $10,000 to provide any evidence.
David, the very confused holocaust denier one day ago wrote:Did the Black Propaganda machinery of the British and Soviets ever exploit the public anti-Semitic policies of the National Socialists?
David, the very confused holocaust denier today wrote:So you are claiming that the Steaming tales are true?
David, you idiot. The Black Book of Polish Jewry is an American publication! It is not Russian or British.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: But then you claim that the Soviets never told lies...and scream out your faith in the Soap Factories. So you Believe that the Germans steamed people just like in the Report?
David, you idiot. The Black Book of Polish Jewry is an American publication! It is not Russian or British.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Always there with a stupid insult, aren't you Matthew?
To be frank you do such a good job of making yourself look like an idiot there is little left for me to do.

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Here I am trying to lift you up from your sick diseased fantasies and you snap at the hand that is educating you.
I see....does that mean you are finally going to provide evidence for your fabrication that Treblinka was a transit camp"? No?......so you are just lying again? Oh David....have I upset you by asking you to supply evidence you never had?

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: You have trouble with dates as well as manners, Mat. British fake radio report of Steamings of Jews in August 1942....
David, you are lying again. There was no fake British radio report of steaming Jews in August 1942! You never found the evidence remember? You tried to use a 1941 BBC1 broadcast of Churchill informing British citizens about Russian executions in Minsk. Churchill didn't use the word "Jew" "Treblinka" or "Steaming"

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Groan...you really are stupid, Mat. The first propaganda tales were not specific, just vague ugly tales.
David, the insane holocaust denier three weeks ago wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks
1) There was no Radio Maria (you fabricated this name of the radio station)
2) Churchill's addresses to the nation on BBC1 were not in Polish
3) You still have not produced any link for any British broadcast in August 1942 that mentions Treblinka or diesel engines. .



Matthew Ellard wrote: Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses in this American publication. .
David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: And what about "Schwarzbart does not identify the witnesses" are you trying to fob off as an answer?
Because that's the correct answer and your problem with that is......?

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: I have been rubbing your face in the absurd impossible and detailed sh*t of the Jewish Steaming tales of Treblinka circa 1942 and 1943
David, you made up a story about Radio Maria (debunked), then another story about Aspidistra (debunked), then another story about Churchill spreading lies about steam rooms at Treblinka (Debunked, it was Russians in Minsk), then another story.about Soviet & British propaganda (debunked the Black book of Polish Jewry is an American publication)...and another fabrication and another.fabrication.....your'e insane!

David, the insane holocaust denier wrote: Where did the ugly detailed impossible tales of Treblinka Steaming come from?
Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart in the American publication The Black Book of Polish Jewry on 14th November 1942. I have said this three times. I am obtaining a copy of IMT PS 3311 to see if the source/sources Schwarzbart used, is named. .

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 pm

David the insane holocaust denier wrote:Where did the ugly, detailed, and impossible tales of Treblinka Steamings come from?
OK. Let me get this straight.

You are saying that Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart has not provided evidence where he was informed about untrue stories concerning Treblinka steam rooms and electric floor at Belzec. Therefore he is....
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.

You are therefore saying that "David" has not provided evidence where he was informed that "Treblinka was a transit camp" and "Soviet munitions were reprocessed at Treblinka" ...Therefore David is
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.


So if I find Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart's source then only you will be, by your own definition...
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.

Is this your current working argument David?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the insane holocaust denier wrote:Where did the ugly, detailed, and impossible tales of Treblinka Steamings come from?
OK. Let me get this straight.

You are saying that Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart has not provided evidence where he was informed about untrue stories concerning Treblinka steam rooms and electric floor at Belzec. Therefore he is....
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.

You are therefore saying that "David" has not provided evidence where he was informed that "Treblinka was a transit camp" and "Soviet munitions were reprocessed at Treblinka" ...Therefore David is
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.


So if I find Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart's source then only you will be, by your own definition...
Lying scum making up stuff for propaganda purposes.

Is this your current working argument David?

Matthew, I am always amazed at how dishonest and nasty you are.
Add "off topic" to that....and convoluted.

No, you don't have it straight.

I don't classify anyone as "Lying scum" even if
they did make up propaganda. That is stupid. They are all dead
and they were at war. I don't even classify you as "Lying Scum"...
you are a Believer fanatic, which is different.

However that doesn't mean that we have to believe everything
that Pravda printed or the British Black Propaganda put out.

Why don't you frigg'n calm down and see where
the public announcements of Treblinka "Steamings" came from?


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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:05 am

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Matthew, I am always amazed at how dishonest and nasty you are...Add "off topic" to that....and convoluted.
So you still can't remember where you read "Treblinka was a transit camp" tsk tsk tsk...but you keep on spreading the propaganda that "Treblinka was a transit camp"....

Keep up the good work David. You are destroying the holocaust denial cult faster than my efforts. I just link students to your posts.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Matthew, I am always amazed at how dishonest and nasty you are...Add "off topic" to that....and convoluted.
So you still can't remember where you read "Treblinka was a transit camp" tsk tsk tsk...but you keep on spreading the propaganda that "Treblinka was a transit camp"....

Keep up the good work David. You are destroying the holocaust denial cult faster than my efforts. I just link students to your posts.

Off topic....and it was your own topic :roll: :roll:

Here is the story again-

When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.-


You believe it is basically true. so in 1942 someone must
have seen the horror...from inside the Steam chamber.

Who was this first witness to the killings?
You should be leaping to find out.

Of course, my explanation is simple.
The entire story was created in one fell swoop
by British black propaganda in August 1942...which is why it was
repeated from an "inside the steam chamber perspective" 90 days later by Ignacy Schwarzbart....or more accurately by the Black Book, which just cites
Ignacy.

So, do tell us when you have obtained "a copy of IMT PS 3311 to see if the source/sources Schwarzbart used, is named."

Not holding my breath.







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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:52 am

David the strawman arguing holocaust denier wrote: When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.- You believe it is basically true.
No I don't believe this story, so piss off and stop trying strawman arguments beyond your junior skill level.


David, the really stupid holocaust denier wrote:Of course, my explanation is simple. The entire story was created in one fell swoop by British black propaganda in August 1942...which is why it was repeated from an "inside the steam chamber perspective" 90 days later by Ignacy Schwarzbart....or more accurately by the Black Book, which just cites Ignacy.
You are really really really stupid
1) The Black Book of Polish Jewry is American not British published by THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR POLISH JEWS
2) The Black Book of Polish Jewry was published in 1943 not August 42
3) .Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, member of the Polish National Council, made his statement in London on November 15, 1942.

You lie without thinking.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the strawman arguing holocaust denier wrote: When the execution chambers are filled the doors are hermetically closed and the slow suffocation of living people begins, brought about by the steam issuing from the numerous vents in the pipes. At the beginning, stifled cries penetrate to the outside; gradually they quiet down and 15 minutes later the execution is complete.- You believe it is basically true.
No I don't believe this story, so piss off and stop trying strawman arguments beyond your junior skill level.


David, the really stupid holocaust denier wrote:Of course, my explanation is simple. The entire story was created in one fell swoop by British black propaganda in August 1942...which is why it was repeated from an "inside the steam chamber perspective" 90 days later by Ignacy Schwarzbart....or more accurately by the Black Book, which just cites Ignacy.
You are really really really stupid
1) The Black Book of Polish Jewry is American not British published by THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR POLISH JEWS
2) The Black Book of Polish Jewry was published in 1943 not August 42
3) .Dr. Ignacy Schwarzbart, member of the Polish National Council, made his statement in London on November 15, 1942.

You lie without thinking.
Strawman? funny....let's look at the propaganda tale and
compare it to the story you do Believe..

But first, let's follow the course of the ugly propaganda that
changed ever so slightly into the "official" history of today.

The propaganda story started over a British radio station pretending
to broadcast from Poland in August 1942 with a tale of Jews being
steamed to death at Treblinka II camp.

By November 1942 the tale had "gone public" and already been
published in England.
Then it became "official" with the sponsorship of
MRS. ELEANOR ROOSEVELT in 1943.

Let's post a more of the November 1942 tale so
that we can all compare what Mat claims is a "strawman"
with today's official history.
-begin-
The Germans began the construction of that building after the action started, probably in the middle of August, with the help of Jewish artisans picked out from among the Jews brought to Treblinka for slaughter. It is significant that the bricks for the construction had been brought from as far as Warsaw, in trucks attached to each transport. The bricks were loaded in the Warsaw Umschlagplatz by Jewish workers. According to the report of an eyewitness, the interior of the building is as follows: a corridor 3 meters wide runs through the middle; there are five chambers on each side; the height of each chamber is about 2 meters; the area about 35 square meters. The execution chambers are without windows, but they have doors opening on the corridor and a type of valve on the outside walls. Next to these valves there are large scoops (they remind one of large vessels). In the walls pipes were installed from which water-steam is supposed to pour into the chambers. This was to have been death-house No. 2.

A path skirts the building and runs along its western wall finally ending at the next building near death-house No. 1. This building is at right angles to the death-house No. 2. It is a brick construction much smaller than the other. It consists of only three chambers and a steam-room. Along the northern wall of this house runs a corridor from which there are doors to the chambers. The outside walls of the chambers
have valves (until recently doors which had been changed into valves for utility reasons). Also here a scoop in the shape of a shallow vessel is placed at the height of the valves. The steam-room is adjacent to the building. Inside the steam-room there is a large vat which produces the steam. The hot steam comes into the chambers through pipes installed there, each having the prescribed number of vents. While this machinery of death is in action, the doors and valves are hermetically closed. The floor in the chambers has a terra-cotta inlay which becomes very slippery when water is poured over it. There is a well next to the steam-room, the only well in the whole area of Treblinka B. Not far from the death-house, south of the barbed-wire and wooden fences, there is a grave-diggers' camp. The grave-diggers live in barracks next to which are the kitchen buildings. On both sides of the camp there are two guard-houses. The remaining area of Treblinka B is destined for the murdered victims. A part of that area is already a large cemetery. At first, Poles employed in the camps dug the graves; later, as the slaughter was intensified and the need for more ditches grew, special digging-machines (bulldozers) were brought, which run day and night at grave-digging. A Diesel-motor supplies the energy and its rattle is a characteristic sound at Treblinka B.
-end-
http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html#Sponsorsiii" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, Mat, you say that any comparison of THIS tale with your true and
obvious history is just a stupid "strawman?"

Nothing in the obviously baseless report by an alleged "eyewitness"
that sort of sounds like the tale YOU believe, huh?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:00 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:The propaganda story started over a British radio station pretending to broadcast from Poland in August 1942 with a tale of Jews being steamed to death at Treblinka II camp.
David, this is a direct lie. You have already failed to back this claim up. There was no British radio station broadcasting in Polish in August 1942 pretending it came from Poland that mentioned either steaming or treblinka.. You are simply repeating your earlier fabrication. The Treblinka steaming story comes from a public speech in London on 14th November 1942 that is reproduced in the Black Book of Polish Jewry in 1943.

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Then it became "official" with the sponsorship of MRS. ELEANOR ROOSEVELT in 1943.
The Black Book of Polish Jewry is published by THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR POLISH JEWS Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein are financial sponsors who do not sit on the publishing or editing boards clearly listed on the document. .

Here is the link
http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Let's post a more of the November 1942 tale so that we can all compare what Mat claims is a "strawman" with today's official history The Germans began the construction of that building after the action started, probably in the middle of August, .

You don't know your basic history. The first executions at Treblinka were on the 22nd of June 1942 under SS-Obersturmfuhrer Imfried Eberl. The "old gas" chambers already existed. SS-Obersturmfuhrer Franz Stangl replaced Eberl in August 1942 as a result of the limited capacity of the three chambers (600 people), complete chaos reigned at Treblinka during August 1942, as transports continued to arrive. Globocnik dismissed camp commander Eberl and appointed Stangl as the new commandant. Transports were suspended whilst order was re-established, and the clean-up could be commenced by Wirth, as thousands of bodies were not buried http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... linka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: According to the report of an eyewitness, the interior of the building is as follows.........:
Why waste time? Here is a schedule of all the eyewitness statements for both the old and the new gas chambers and reconstructions based on their exact words...(David hasn't read these)
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... ebcad.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Nothing in the obviously baseless report by an alleged "eyewitness"
David, the eye witnesses describe in great detail, with accuracy, the old and new gas chambers at Treblinka. You are still pretending these gas chambers never existed right or have you changed your mind?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:42 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the lying holocaust denier wrote:The propaganda story started over a British radio station pretending to broadcast from Poland in August 1942 with a tale of Jews being steamed to death at Treblinka II camp.
David, this is a direct lie. You have already failed to back this claim up. There was no British radio station broadcasting in Polish in August 1942 pretending it came from Poland that mentioned either steaming or treblinka.. You are simply repeating your earlier fabrication. The Treblinka steaming story comes from a public speech in London on 14th November 1942 that is reproduced in the Black Book of Polish Jewry in 1943.

It's not a lie but I admit I have not shown any specific references
to the operations of the Polish-czech Research Unit in first Broadcasting
the Steam Chambers of Treblinka B.
And, actually, what is interesting is that the first tales of Steaming were
"corrected" by a later broadcast to death by diesel exhaust.
But, the British did broadcast in Polish in August 1942.
And now you have the very detailed "Report from Inside a
Treblinka Steam Chamber" printed in London in 1942.
So, where do you think the Report came from?
Do you think that Dr. Schwarzbart MADE UP the report?








David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Then it became "official" with the sponsorship of MRS. ELEANOR ROOSEVELT in 1943.
The Black Book of Polish Jewry is published by THE AMERICAN FEDERATION FOR POLISH JEWS Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein are financial sponsors who do not sit on the publishing or editing boards clearly listed on the document. .
Do you know who Eleanor Roosevelt was, Mat?
Anyway, you can't pretend that the Treblinka steaming story was
unknown. It was officially embraced in various governmental
declarations in December 1942.



Here is the link
http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Let's post a more of the November 1942 tale so that we can all compare what Mat claims is a "strawman" with today's official history The Germans began the construction of that building after the action started, probably in the middle of August, .

You don't know your basic history. The first executions at Treblinka were on the 22nd of June 1942 under SS-Obersturmfuhrer Imfried Eberl. The "old gas" chambers already existed. SS-Obersturmfuhrer Franz Stangl replaced Eberl in August 1942 as a result of the limited capacity of the three chambers (600 people), complete chaos reigned at Treblinka during August 1942, as transports continued to arrive. Globocnik dismissed camp commander Eberl and appointed Stangl as the new commandant. Transports were suspended whilst order was re-established, and the clean-up could be commenced by Wirth, as thousands of bodies were not buried http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... linka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


June or July, you can pick whatever YOU want, Matthew.
Either way the Steaming Story of the anonymous eyewitness from inside the
Steam chambers was on the streets of London days later.



David the lying holocaust denier wrote: According to the report of an eyewitness, the interior of the building is as follows.........:
Why waste time? Here is a schedule of all the eyewitness statements for both the old and the new gas chambers and reconstructions based on their exact words...(David hasn't read these)
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... ebcad.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matthew, please stop trying to divert attention from the
story of Ignacy Schwarzbart. You started this post with the the assertion
that Treblinka/1942 British Propaganda/False.
"Before accusing David of lying again I offer him the right to back up his story."

Well, now you have Ignacy Schwarzbart's story of Treblinka Steaming
in your lap. Treblinka, Steaming, London, 1942.
Explain where it came from.



David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Nothing in the obviously baseless report by an alleged "eyewitness"
David, the eye witnesses describe in great detail, with accuracy, the old and new gas chambers at Treblinka. You are still pretending these gas chambers never existed right or have you changed your mind?
You are not dealing with Ignacy, Matthew.



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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: "Before accusing David of lying again I offer him the right to back up his story.
"
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: It's not a lie but I admit I have not shown any specific references
You never do...........because you make these stories up on the spot
"Treblinka was a transit camp"
"Soviet munitions were reprocessed at Treblinka"
"Radio Maria" & "Aspidistra' in August 1942
I have a list somewhere of all your fabrications.


David the lying holocaust denier wrote: And now you have the very detailed "Report from Inside a Treblinka Steam Chamber" printed in London in 1942.
Entertainingly you haven't read this report. In your previous post you said Treblinka II was established in August 1942 which was a lie. This report gives the correct date. "In March, 1942, the Germans began the construction of another camp, Treblinka B, in the vicinity

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: So, where do you think the Report came from?
Polish eyewitnesses who knew the correct date.....unlike yourself....
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Do you know who Eleanor Roosevelt was, Mat?
Gosh David.....I do know.....Do you know who Albert Einstein is, who was also a sponsor?......a Jewish liar who spreads propaganda?

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: According to the report of an eyewitness, the interior of the building is as follows.........:
Why waste time? Here is a schedule of all the eyewitness statements for both the old and the new gas chambers and reconstructions based on their exact words...(David hasn't read these)
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/ ... ebcad.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:19 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:David the lying holocaust denier wrote:
It's not a lie but I admit I have not shown any specific references
You never do...........because you make these stories up on the spot
Try not to be such a jerk, Mat.
Some references and evidence are on-line and some not. The
entire RU propaganda project is still very obscure. It would make
an interesting research project.

As to the point of when the ugly propaganda tale
regarding Treblinka was created, you have it on your lap.
London, 1942

All the elements of the story you believe are in the first story, in detail,
except that the agent of death is steam.
It is an interesting and important propaganda piece.
http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Matthew Ellard wrote:Entertainingly you haven't read this report. In your previous post you said Treblinka II was established in August 1942 which was a lie. This report gives the correct date. "In March, 1942, the Germans began the construction of another camp, Treblinka B, in the vicinity
No, Matthew. I didn't state the date construction began.
I did comment the time period between the alleged date of
the start of killings and the appearance of the Report from inside the
steam chambers in the streets of London. 60-90 days.

Yes, Matthew. The "Report" is accurate on many details of the
Treblinka camp layout and wrong on the "inside the steam chamber of death"
matter. Think about it.




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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:04 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:...........because you make these stories up on the spot
David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote:Try not to be such a jerk, Mat. Some references and evidence are on-line and some not.
I see..... so you don't read books and have no idea how to list a book citation. More to the point you can't identify what book you get your fabrications from further suggesting your statements are just fabrications.

David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote: The entire RU propaganda project is still very obscure.
There are endless books about it, many which I have been quoting.

David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote: As to the point of when the ugly propaganda tale regarding Treblinka was created, you have it on your lap.
London, 1942
Wrong, the steaming story is stated based on incorrect witnesses statements and is not created. The same witnesses got the "gassing" and commencement date, part of their story correct.

What you are trying to avoid saying is that witnesses had observed the exections at Treblinka which actually occured. The witnesses used the words gassing and steam chamber. Steam chamber was incorrect but gassing was exactly what was happening.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:...........because you make these stories up on the spot
David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote:Try not to be such a jerk, Mat. Some references and evidence are on-line and some not.
I see..... so you don't read books and have no idea how to list a book citation. More to the point you can't identify what book you get your fabrications from further suggesting your statements are just fabrications.

David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote: The entire RU propaganda project is still very obscure.
There are endless books about it, many which I have been quoting.

Endless?" You sound like Judge Lukaszkiewicz!
Anyway, given that you have the proof of the Treblinka/1942/Propaganda
on your lap, we can discuss British black propaganda somewhere else.

David the fabricating holocaust denier wrote: As to the point of when the ugly propaganda tale regarding Treblinka was created, you have it on your lap.
London, 1942
Wrong, the steaming story is stated based on incorrect witnesses statements and is not created. The same witnesses got the "gassing" and commencement date, part of their story correct.

What you are trying to avoid saying is that witnesses had observed the exections at Treblinka which actually occured. The witnesses used the words gassing and steam chamber. Steam chamber was incorrect but gassing was exactly what was happening.

Hmmm, I figured you would go for claiming
the "Report" was true...just a little bitsy bit mistaken

I guess it is your only gambit.

What do you think of the lines,
"The steam-room is adjacent to the building. Inside the steam-room there is a large vat which produces the steam. The hot steam comes into the chambers through pipes installed there, each having the prescribed number of vents."

Just an observation mistake too?

and

"Due to the steam all the bodies have become a homogeneous mass stuck together with the perspiration of the victims. In their death agonies, arms, legs, trunks are intertwined into a gigantic macabre entanglement. To make it possible for the grave-diggers to get out single bodies, cold water from the near-by well is poured over the mass. Then the bodies separate and may be taken out."

Another observation mistake?

Any idea why the eye witness could be so accurate on the details
like the START of the construction but so wrong on the steam?

And did you ever figure out who this "eye witness" was?

Must be a pretty amazing guy to have hung out around the
"steam chambers" and seen how it all worked down to following
the bodies to the mass graves.
How do you think he pulled off sneaking into the camp and
getting such detailed information, like the floor of the "death chamber"
and the need to pour cold water over the bodies, or the "Ein Mann — zwei Leichen"
observations? He even read the "chtung Warschauer" signs in the
main square.

This eye witness was really absolutely amazing, don't you think Matthew.
I am just all steamed up to hear how you think he moved so completely
through the Death Camp and then got the information out of the new
camp so soon.



Debate aside, Matt, you are a educated guy who has probably spent
more time reading various books on these matters than I have.
You are smart enough to know what you are looking at.
The REPORT OF DR. I. SCHWARZBART is probably the most important piece
of propaganda that has ever been written.

It is all a fascinating story.
Why there were diesel stories, why and who wrote
the original report. How and why the Treblinka tale changed.
And you were right about something you (sneeringly)
threw at me. I am happy to discuss with you.
So let me know when
you are finished tap dancing about the Report.
Regards.


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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:00 am

David the boring holocaust denier wrote: Anyway, given that you have the proof of the Treblinka/1942/Propaganda on your lap, we can discuss British black propaganda somewhere else.
I don't have any example of Treblinka propaganda on my lap. I have the dates and medias that the first stories of Nazi mass executions became known to the public.

David the boring holocaust denier wrote: Hmmm, I figured you would go for claiming
the "Report" was true...just a little bitsy bit mistaken
That's right David. Welcome to the world of wartime intelligence.

David the boring holocaust denier wrote: Debate aside, Matt, you are a educated guy who has probably spent more time reading various books on these matters than I have.
My cat has read more books on the holocaust than you have.

David the boring holocaust denier wrote:You are smart enough to know what you are looking at The REPORT OF DR. I. SCHWARZBART is probably the most important piece of propaganda that has ever been written.
It wasn't propaganda. 713,555 had been executed by the Nazis in Treblinka before the Black Book of Polish Jewry was even published.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:28 am

Radio Maria is a Polish propaganda anti communist radio established in 1991.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Maryja" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
now read on.......

David and his changing Story Initial Version
David the lying holocaust denier on July 14th 2008 wrote: The first tale of "extermination" of Jews was broadcast by British propaganda in August 1942. Broadcasting in Polish and pretending to be an Underground radio station based in Poland called Radio Maria a series of reports of Jews being steamed to death were broadcast.


David and his changing Story Version 1
David the lying holocaust denier two weeks ago wrote: The first Treblinka myth was generated by the British propaganda radio station broadcasting in Polish Radio Maria...in August 1942. That is where the "steaming tale" started: Turned into the diesel tale in a couple of weeks.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Crap. Roberto and I asked you to produce your evidence of "Radio Maria" broadcasting propaganda in August 1942 and you ran away. Here you are repeating your previous lie although it has been debunked.
David and his changing Story Version 2
David the lying holocaust denier one week ago wrote: It was the Political Warfare Executive broadcasting in Polish on the Aspidistra radio system.
Matthew Ellard wrote:How did they broadcast in August 1942?
Aspidistra went into service on 8 November 1942, and was in operation throughout the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspidistra_(transmitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
David and his changing Story Version 3
David who can't read the words August or November wrote: Groan....are being stupid to torment me or can't you help yourself? The broadcasts were in August and the tale became an icon after the broadcasts.
On the Aspidistra radio transmitter that didn't operate until November.....care to try again?


David actually reads Matthews Quote for the first time
David the dodging holocaust denier wrote:So, are you pretending that Treblinka was NOT a public issue in November 1942?
I am the person who quoted this date to you and linked you to the date and newspaper. You are the complete moron who lied about "Radio Maria" "August 1942" and Aspidistra broadcasting this before Aspidistra existed.

So David.....why can't you provide any link, citation or even another stupid holocaust denier's blog that mentioned "August 1942" radio broadcasts about Treblinka? Is it because you made it up on the spot like "transit camp" and "soviet munitions reprocessing".

How mad are you?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Nessie » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:31 am

David, do you know that witness testimony is more reliable when it fails to totally corroborate, when there are inconsistencies and plain old mistakes? Witness testimony which does not vary and contains no mistakes is more likely to have been fabricated.

I also feel that you are relying too much on a double standard of more evidence is required by Matthew than you require of yourself. From what I have been reading so far of Holocaust Denial and revisionists that is a common practice.
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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:36 am

Nessie wrote:David, do you know that witness testimony is more reliable when it fails to totally corroborate, when there are inconsistencies and plain old mistakes? Witness testimony which does not vary and contains no mistakes is more likely to have been fabricated.

I also feel that you are relying too much on a double standard of more evidence is required by Matthew than you require of yourself. From what I have been reading so far of Holocaust Denial and revisionists that is a common practice.
You ask two different questions.
Matt is wrong that "underground" radio broadcasting by the
Brits to Europe only started with the creation of the Aspidistra broadcasting station.
I don't have time to correct all of Matt's lies but just google
Political Warfare Executive It was founded around September 1941.
Spend 10 minutes on the subject and you will see exactly what I said,
supposedly "underground" radio stations were set up broadcasting "news"
from the occupied country. The various units were called "research units"
and the Czechs and the Poles were in the same research unit.


AS to level of evidence, Matt usually repeats some commonly accepted
tale....like the Jan Karski tale of bringing vital documents to Britain hidden in a key,
or King Christian X riding around wearing a Star of David, and even wacked out ones like the tales of human soap production.
But don't confuse the fact that a tale is widely repeated with a higher standard
of evidence. You need to think for yourself and weigh claims.

To respond to your first question.
Let's take my example of early Propaganda....the Treblinka Steaming Tale
http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The problem for you is that the tale is complete and very precise giving the
names of German officials, the details of inside the "steam chamber,"
the words on signs. All from an "eye witness" who has never been named.

How do you explain the Treblinka Steaming Tale as it was published?





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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Nessie » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:24 am

The Treblinka Steaming is not a problem for me, it is what it is a report that is not clear about its source. Beyond that I could not say how true it is or not.

My point is that if 20 people described what happened at Treblinka and their statements were the same, I would be more suspicious than if their statements contained different versions and even inconsistencies.
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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:45 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: You ask two different questions.
Nice try, my little lonely holocaust denier. You said the Brits "knew about Treblinka" before November 1942. I destroyed your lies in this very thread. You are now attempting to make a general claim to hide your debunked lies.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Matt is wrong that "underground" radio broadcasting by the Brits to Europe only started with the creation of the Aspidistra broadcasting station. I don't have time to correct all of Matt's lies but just google
Political Warfare Executive
Nice try, are you now saying that general anti-German propaganda pamphlets dropped into Poland had details about Treblinka? Show me the exact link or book from which you gather this new fabrication. You can't can you...tsk tsk tsk.
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: AS to level of evidence, Matt usually repeats some commonly accepted tale.... King Christian X riding around wearing a Star of David,
Crap. You started both posts on King Christian X and Pyrrho linked you to Queen Margrethe saying this was a myth in 1948! You then ran away as you looked more stupid than usual. Here are the threads where you were destroyed
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p255473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
David the lying holocaust denier wrote:and even wacked out ones like the tales of human soap production.
Again you are running away. Dr Spanner experimented and made human soap. It never went into production. You were destroyed on this thread....
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p187494" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Let's take my example of early Propaganda....the Treblinka Steaming Tale http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The problem for you is that the tale is complete and very precise giving the names of German officials, the details of inside the "steam chamber," the words on signs. All from an "eye witness" who has never been named.
David is trying to forget the eyewitnesses to Treblinka are all listed here. The actual German officers who ran Treblinka confessed to their crimes...but David has forgotten to mention this
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/treblinka.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David was destroyed for faking “facts” and lying on this thread

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... rt#p234735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So my little lonely holocaust denier....do you still deny Aktion Reinhard and the Polish holocaust?

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:58 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Nice try, my little lonely holocaust denier. You said the Brits "knew about Treblinka" before November 1942. I destroyed your lies in this very thread. You are now attempting to make a general claim to hide your debunked lies.
There's a laugh.
I forced you to admit that November 1942 was the very latest
the Brits could have known about the Steaming Chambers of Treblinka
since there were published reports in London by that date.

I pointed out that the Belzec story was published in April 1942 and that information
about it was certainly radioed to the British shortly thereafter.

This is when you "destroyed my lies" by claiming the Poles did not have
radios that could broadcast over 9 miles :roll: :roll:
Since they had shortwave radios that broadcast to England in
1936 and had a daily broadcast to England in December 1942,
your "explanation" that the Poles somehow could not use shortwave
radios in the Spring and Summer of 1942 is only the ranting of
a Believer loon.

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Re: Treblinka / 1942 British Propaganda / False

Post by David » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:03 am

David wrote: David the lying holocaust denier wrote: AS to level of evidence, Matt usually repeats some commonly accepted tale.... King Christian X riding around wearing a Star of David,

Crap. You started both posts on King Christian X and Pyrrho linked you to Queen Margrethe saying this was a myth in 1948! You then ran away as you looked more stupid than usual.
??? So I ran away because Pyrrho linked us to a quote that supported my
assertion? You are getting way to goofy, Matt.