Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

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Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:11 am

In 1943, the British decrypted a telecommunication from german SS officer Hofle to Adolf Eichmann concerning the number of executions at concentration camps in Operation Reinhard. This includes Treblinka, accumulated up to the period ended 31/Dec/1942. The decrypt was filed back then, as the British did not know what Operation Reinherd was or what the figure meant. It was read again in 2000 when these decrypts were made public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

The executions up until 31/Dec/1942 at Treblinka had reached 713,555 people which is very close to the number that was previously put forward by normal historians. This is an internal SS document. It is the "smoking gun". If anyone doubts the death count at Treblinka please direct them to this document first before supplying train movements, confessions and other supporting documents.









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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:57 am

Here are some photos from either the Polish investigation into Treblinka. Note the body parts mixed in with ash.
.http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp41.jpg

Here is the Polsh investigation team standing in a mass grave for cremated victims.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg

Would any of our holocaust deniers like to make a comment?

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:04 pm

Hello Matthew-
I see the bones of maybe 2 individuals.
Uh...where are the bones of the other 898,000 people?

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:35 am

David wrote:Hello Matthew- I see the bones of maybe 2 individuals.
Uh...where are the bones of the other 898,000 people?


Your idols, the Nazis, were simple criminals who wanted to hide evidence that they executed almost a million people at Treblinka. For this reason they cremated the bodies of executed victims from an earlier period and as new executions were made. The ash mixed in with these bones may contain the remains of another 10,000 victims.

Didn't you know anything about this? ( Why would you? You are a holocaust denier who will pretend Treblinka was a transit camp but never say to where. Evidence just isn't your "thing")

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote:Hello Matthew- I see the bones of maybe 2 individuals.
Uh...where are the bones of the other 898,000 people?


Your idols, the Nazis, were simple criminals who wanted to hide evidence that they executed almost a million people at Treblinka. For this reason they cremated the bodies of executed victims from an earlier period and as new executions were made. The ash mixed in with these bones may contain the remains of another 10,000 victims.

Didn't you know anything about this? ( Why would you? You are a holocaust denier who will pretend Treblinka was a transit camp but never say to where. Evidence just isn't your "thing")


Hello Matthew- Please don't be rude. I am just looking at the
evidence you cited.
I understand your claim that criminals wanted to hide evidence but leaving the bodies/bones of the victims around is not a very good way of hiding evidence.

I also understand the Believer theory of a complex and as yet
not understood German system of totally destroying all remains
of hundreds of thousands of human bodies.

But the pictures you have cited show only the bones of two
or three individuals. You are claiming that "The ash mixed in with these
bones may contain the remains of another 10,000 victims."

Are you claiming that the Germans made "ash piles" of 10,000
bodies and then MARKED these sites with human bones?
Something in your strident assertions does not make sense.



In fact, several hundred uncremated bodies were found at Treblinka in
1944: A fact that casts doubt on the theory of an organized program
of "hiding evidence."

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:36 am

David wrote: I understand your claim that criminals wanted to hide evidence but leaving the bodies/bones of the victims around is not a very good way of hiding evidence.

The Red Army was coming and they ran out of time to hide their crimes.

David wrote: I also understand the Believer theory of a complex and as yet
not understood German system of totally destroying all remains
of hundreds of thousands of human bodies.

They cremated the bodies that they had previously just left there. It is very simple.

David wrote: But the pictures you have cited show only the bones of two
or three individuals. You are claiming that "The ash mixed in with these
bones may contain the remains of another 10,000 victims."
Are you claiming that the Germans made "ash piles" of 10,000
bodies and then MARKED these sites with human bones?
Something in your strident assertions does not make sense.


Complete crap. You are lying again. You are very aware the locals starrted digging up Treblinka when the Germans left. It is all described in detail in the Polish report which you refuse to read.

Now let us put a holocaust denier to the test. Do you deny that over 700,000 were executed at Treblinka after reading the internal Nazi documents that state numbers, clothing taken from victims, eye witness reports and the Polish investigation? If so explain why using ALL THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE and not by picking and choosing little details from the CODOH website. If you can't do this I suggest you stop posting here.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:00 pm

If Treblinka was a "transit camp", why were several hundred bodies discovered there?

If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no mass graves were discovered at Treblinka?

If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no human remains were discovered at Treblinka?

If Treblinka was a transit camp, why does the Polish investigation report specifically mention the discovery of countless human bones and ash identified as being of human origin to depths of several meters in locations where eyewitnesses had claimed that mass graves existed?

If Treblinka was a transit camp, why were local people constantly digging for valuables?
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:50 am

[quote="Pyrrho"]If Treblinka was a "transit camp", why were several hundred bodies discovered there?
There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho.
Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry.
Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were
processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.



If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no mass graves were discovered at Treblinka?
Depends on how you define "mass." Among
normal people a mass grave would have 20 - 200 bodies in it.
But remember that we are discussing the amazing tales of Holocaust
Belief. When you are claiming 900,000 victims were killed at Treblinka
you better come up with "mass graves" with 50,000 - 100,000 bodies
in them.
In fact, the number bodies that were found are entirely consistent with the
"normal" operation of a camp with an average population of 5,000 detainees
operating for 2 1/2 years.



If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no human remains were discovered at Treblinka?
No one educated does. The story of "all bodies having been
destroyed" is a fiction created by Latter Day Believers to "explain" the lack of
any "Holocaust level" mass graves.



If Treblinka was a transit camp, why does the Polish investigation report specifically mention the discovery of countless human bones and ash identified as being of human origin to depths of several meters in locations where eyewitnesses had claimed that mass graves existed?
The real question is "are any of the countless human bones there now?" If they are not (and they are not there) then the Polish report is just a
propaganda exaggeration of the few "normal" graves which were left by the
Germans.

The two Believer tales are:
1. The Germans left rotting flesh and bones all over;
2. The Germans cleverly destroyed all traces of their crime. :roll:

In fact, the "investigation" of the Poles simply found the several hundreds
of bodies of the "normal" operation of the two Treblinka camps and
exaggerated what they found.


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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:35 am

Pyrrho wrote: If Treblinka was a "transit camp", why were several hundred bodies discovered there?

David wrote: There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho.
Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry.
Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were
processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.

We already know this however you have lied again The Russian 76.2mm quick fire round was not reprocessed as the waffenamt used captured 76.2mm guns captured from the Russian on the Marder1 and Marder 2. Standard Rhinemetal 75mm L48s were rechambered in Germany and CMK/Skoda factories for the Marder 3 onwards until supplies of soviet ordinance drained. No such equipment to do this ever existed at Treblinka. You made that fact up.

Pyrrho wrote: If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no mass graves were discovered at Treblinka?

David wrote: Depends on how you define "mass." Among
normal people a mass grave would have 20 - 200 bodies in it.
But remember that we are discussing the amazing tales of Holocaust
Belief. When you are claiming 900,000 victims were killed at Treblinka
you better come up with "mass graves" with 50,000 - 100,000 bodies
in them.

"Ash" David how many times can you forget this without looking like you have brain damage?


David wrote: In fact, the number bodies that were found are entirely consistent with the "normal" operation of a camp with an average population of 5,000 detainees
operating for 2 1/2 years.

You are pretending you can't read again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram
State secret! To the Reich Security Main Office, for the attention of SS Obersturmbannführer EICHMANN, BERLIN
T (Treblinka) Sum total as of 31 December, 1942, 713 555
Gosh David and you say, based on your holocaust denier imagination, that you think only 5,000 people worked at both camps. That's because you are lying again!

David wrote:No one educated does. The story of "all bodies having been
destroyed" is a fiction created by Latter Day Believers to "explain" the lack of
any "Holocaust level" mass graves.

You have lied again! Here is a photo of a mass grave at Treblinka. I posted it four posts again....did you forget? are you senile? http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bigp51.jpg

PS, I love the way you are trying to give your lies authority by imitating my blue script. Although imitation is a form of flattery I would prefer if you imitated me by reading a book or two (or having a doctor look at your loss of memory problem). If you are more of the sexual persuassion of your fellow Nazis like Röhm then I suggest a nice pink waffenfabre as used by Waffen SS Panzergrenadiers.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:08 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Pyrrho wrote: I

Pyrrho wrote: If several hundred bodies were discovered there, why do people claim that no mass graves were discovered at Treblinka?

David wrote: Depends on how you define "mass." Among
normal people a mass grave would have 20 - 200 bodies in it.
But remember that we are discussing the amazing tales of Holocaust
Belief. When you are claiming 900,000 victims were killed at Treblinka
you better come up with "mass graves" with 50,000 - 100,000 bodies
in them.

"Ash" David how many times can you forget this without looking like you have brain damage?


Hello Matthew- I understand your screaming about "ash."
It is inconsistant with the Polish claims of "Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition."


As I said, Believers are inconsistent.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:15 am

David wrote: Hello Matthew- I understand your screaming about "ash."
It is inconsistant with the Polish claims of "Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition." As I said, Believers are inconsistent.


No, you obviously don't understand why there is a mix of ash and tissue. This is because you refuse to read the Polish report. You refuse to read the Polish report because you are a holocaust denier and holocaust deniers do not believe in reviewing all the evidence. It is that simple. In about 20 years you will be on display at a museum as "the last living holocaust denier" with a sign explaining your inability to read evidence.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:32 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David wrote: Hello Matthew- I understand your screaming about "ash."
It is inconsistant with the Polish claims of "Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition." As I said, Believers are inconsistent.


No, you obviously don't understand why there is a mix of ash and tissue. This is because you refuse to read the Polish report.


What I do understand is that if a body still has its flesh then it was
not cremated very thoroughly...which means that you Believers are
about 899,800 bodies short from your Treblinka tales.
I also noticed that the acres of "countless human bones"
have all disappeared.
Reports by Soviet and Polish investigations from the 1940's tend to greatly exaggerate and distort facts and are not reliable.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:08 am

David wrote: What I do understand is that if a body still has its flesh then it was
not cremated very thoroughly...

and?
David wrote: which means that you Believers are
about 899,800 bodies short from your Treblinka tales.

Are you really that thick? The Polish investigation found both human tissue and ash. Not all bodies were completely cremated and you can see the the body parts in the photos I have posted. What do you think all the ash surrounding the body parts is? Why are you too frightened to read the Polish report?

David wrote: Reports by Soviet and Polish investigations from the 1940's tend to greatly exaggerate and distort facts and are not reliable.

CRAP. You made that up on the spot. You have never read a Polish or Soviet report and still refuse to do so today. You are just a lying holocaust denier promoting nazi ideology.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:16 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: Not all bodies were completely cremated [/color]
Then they should still be there. Howabout a current picture?

David wrote: Reports by Soviet and Polish investigations from the 1940's tend to greatly exaggerate and distort facts and are not reliable.

CRAP. You made that up on the spot. You have never read a Polish or Soviet report and still refuse to do so today. You are just a lying holocaust denier promoting nazi ideology.


Ever heard of the "COMMUNIQUE OF THE POLISH-SOVIET EXTRAORDINARY COMMISSION FOR INVESTIGATING THE CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE GERMANS IN THE MAJDANEK EXTERMINATION CAMP IN LUBLIN"?
It was even "evidence" in the Nuremberg Trial.
Said that 1.400,000 people were murdered at Majdanek.
http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps ... eport.html

That is your problem, Matthew. You keep returning to the unreliable Soviet
propaganda. As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool returns to his foolishness
Proverbs 26:11

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:19 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:If Treblinka was a "transit camp", why were several hundred bodies discovered there?

There were two Treblinka Camps, Pyrrho.
Treblinka I was a labor camp which ran a huge gravel quarry.
Treblinka II was also a camp where captured Soviet munitions were
processed. Both camps together had about 5,000 inmates on the average.


Hi David,

Can you show many any link, reference or cite any book that even suggests that munitions were reprocessed at Treblinka II? I'm discussing complete fabrications by holocaust deniers on another forum and I just want to double check with you that this was a complete lie you made up on the spot.

Thanks!

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:17 pm

The thing that gets me about holocaust denial is that whilst we can argue about number of deaths, means of death and what the camps were used for, for evermore, does that mean what the deniers say happened somehow make it OK?
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:26 pm

Nessie wrote:The thing that gets me about holocaust denial is that whilst we can argue about number of deaths, means of death and what the camps were used for, for evermore, does that mean what the deniers say happened somehow make it OK?


Who is saying it is "ok?" Not us Revisionists-

What is going on is that all scholars are recognizing that Soviet and British
propaganda took REAL tragedies and exploited and exaggerated them for
their purposes. The Nuremberg Tribunal was a disgraceful farce where
death tolls of camps were inflated by Millions, where faked human soap, and
a shrunken head were paraded around, and tales of a human fertilizer factory
were presented.
So,
1. If we all are really concerned with learning from the Holocaust, it makes sense
to understand what actually happened.

2. It is also a concern to see the extent that our own governments will lie to us.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm

Thanks for that David. I was wondering because the way holcaust denial is often presented in the press, it is as if nothing happened at all or that somehow what happened was not so bad.

What were the UK trying to achive when you say "British propaganda took REAL tragedies and exploited and exaggerated them for their purposes"? Can you evidence that?

What was the UK lying about? Can you evidence that?

How could the UK government do anything with reports such as this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/holocaust/5115.shtml
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:20 pm

David the lying holcaust denier wrote:Who is saying it is "ok?" Not us Revisionists-


Who is this "us Revisionists" There is only one of you. There hasn't been a holocaust revisionist "paper" for a decade and never one that has undergone university peer review. David Irving recanted four years ago. Jurgen Graf works for Ahmadinejad in Iran. The three remaining holocaust deniers on the JREF forum are also 9/11 conspiracy nuts.

You are "it" buddy, and you lie through your teeth in very post

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:24 am

Nessie wrote:Thanks for that David. I was wondering because the way holcaust denial is often presented in the press, it is as if nothing happened at all or that somehow what happened was not so bad.

What were the UK trying to achive when you say "British propaganda took REAL tragedies and exploited and exaggerated them for their purposes"? Can you evidence that?

What was the UK lying about? Can you evidence that?
Sure-
Take the findings of the Nuremberg Tribunal-
Start with the Majdanek death toll...given as 1,400,000 at Nuremberg
Guess what the new figures announced by the Auschwitz State Museum
are? Majdanek Victims Enumerated. Changes in the history textbooks?

http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php? ... 4&Itemid=8

Look at the creation of the "Ax Handle" Confession of Hoess...
Start with the first figures created during Hoess' First torture session.
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitz ... stics.html
Then read http://www.codoh.com/trials/trihoess.html

Look at the propaganda from 1942...from inside the Treblinka Steam Chambers

http://www.xoxol.org/dem/blackbook01.html Where do you think the
story of 2,000,000 people steamed to death and buried came from
?




Nessie wrote: How could the UK government do anything with reports such as this?


Ignore those inmates that were well treated and imply that the tragedy
was an intentional plan.


Take a look at some survivor testimony which is surprising

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CQFy3HJf3A

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:28 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the lying holcaust denier wrote:Who is saying it is "ok?" Not us Revisionists-


Who is this "us Revisionists" There is only one of you. There hasn't been a holocaust revisionist "paper" for a decade and never one that has undergone university peer review. David Irving recanted four years ago. Jurgen Graf works for Ahmadinejad in Iran. The three remaining holocaust deniers on the JREF forum are also 9/11 conspiracy nuts.

You are "it" buddy, and you lie through your teeth in very post


If I am the only surviving Revisionist still out of jail then you have
just verified my authority to speak for Revisionists. Thank you, Matt.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:42 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote:If I am the only surviving Revisionist still out of jail then you have just verified my authority to speak for Revisionists. Thank you, Matt.
No David, a "revisionist" reads history. You fabricate entire stories and get caught lying and changing historical dates in your posts. No banana for you my lonely little holocaust denier.....

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:11 am

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Look at the creation of the "Ax Handle" Confession of Hoess...Start with the first figures created during Hoess' First torture session.
Still lying my little lonely holocaust denier......tsk tsk tsk....

Mr. Ken Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein. "They brought Hoess to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activities during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Höss in his cell to help break him down for interrogation. "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,". said Mr. Jones.

Gosh David, they kept poor Mr Hoess awake! What torture! Look at all the bruises on his face.....
http://www.jewishmag.com/112mag/evillurks/hoess.jpg

And the amazing evidence the Nuremberg Trials got from Hoess in the dock
DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

Any other crap fabrications for us this week David?


Excessive lying is a common symptom of several mental illnesses. For instance, people who suffer from antisocial personality disorder, use lying to benefit from others. Some individuals with Borderline personality disorder, lie for attention by claiming they've been treated poorly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologi ... ical_liars

Can you give us your little speech about how "revisionists" are poorly treated again?

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Look at the creation of the "Ax Handle" Confession of Hoess...Start with the first figures created during Hoess' First torture session.
Still lying my little lonely holocaust denier......tsk tsk tsk....

Mr. Ken Jones was then a private with the Fifth Royal Horse Artillery stationed at Heid in Schleswig-Holstein. "They brought Hoess to us when he refused to cooperate over questioning about his activities during the war. He came in the winter of 1945/6 and was put in a small jail cell in the barracks," recalls Mr. Jones. Two other soldiers were detailed with Mr. Jones to join Höss in his cell to help break him down for interrogation. "We sat in the cell with him, night and day, armed with axe handles. Our job was to prod him every time he fell asleep to help break down his resistance,". said Mr. Jones.

Gosh David, they kept poor Mr Hoess awake! What torture! Look at all the bruises on his face.....
http://www.jewishmag.com/112mag/evillurks/hoess.jpg

Hello Matt- You left out the part about the beating, the threats to his children, the alcohol and the being dragged in the cold. You did get the "Ax-Handle" part right... 20% right! That's way better than your average!
And why try the transparent trick of taking a picture from Hoess trial in
Poland and claiming it was during the torture session months earlier? You just look lying a sneaky prevaricator...again.


And the amazing evidence the Nuremberg Trials got from Hoess in the dock
DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

Any other crap fabrications for us this week David?

Oh, and I thought Mr. Hoess was in charge of planning Aushcwitz. ;)
I guess being two or three million people off is what
you consider not "exact notes!" :roll: :roll:



Can you give us your little speech about how "revisionists" are poorly treated again?


I think not....it seems to get you excited in
inappropriate ways. Like when we discuss National Socialist
policy toward gays...hmmmm.
Since we are talking about how the British have distorted history shouldn't
you bring up Churchill's Great Famine aka the Great Bengal Famine.
3 to 4 million dead and so little "notice" among British historians.
I wonder if Nessie has even heard of it.
Nessie, do you know about the Bengal Famine of 1943?


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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:42 am

David the homophobic holocaust denier wrote: I think not....it seems to get you excited in inappropriate ways. Like when we discuss National Socialist
policy toward gays...hmmmm.
So that's all you've got? The best retort you can think of is to suggest that I'm gay? That's pretty pathetic David.....even for a lonely neo nazi......

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the homophobic holocaust denier wrote: I think not....it seems to get you excited in inappropriate ways. Like when we discuss National Socialist
policy toward gays...hmmmm.
So that's all you've got? The best retort you can think of is to suggest that I'm gay? That's pretty pathetic David.....even for a lonely neo nazi......


Whoa Partner, I don't care if you are gay.
I am suggesting that you get excited by thinking of other people's suffering, ie. you are a sicko who believes in human soap and shrunken heads.
Right? You do envision people actually washing with human soap. Correct
me if I don't understand your position.

Now you are pissed at me because I have better things to do than describe
poorly treated Revisionists in jail. Get your cookies somewhere else, buddy!

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:22 am

David, the holocaust denier, who is getting a bit weird wrote: Whoa Partner, I don't care if you are gay.


So why did you bring it up in a post if I'm not gay?

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Gord » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:36 am

David wrote:Whoa Partner, I don't care if you are gay.

I'm skeptical.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:36 am

Gord wrote:
David wrote:Whoa Partner, I don't care if you are gay.

I'm skeptical.
If David was alive in Germany 70 years ago he'd be the first person putting the boot into gays, Jews, Gypsies...any one who was brighter than, or didn't agree with David.....in fact pretty well everyone.
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:43 pm

David, where yu see a Soviet and UK conspiracy, I see the camps being found, the chaos that ensued, the reports of destroyed documents, unreliable and/or contradictory witness testimony and palin bloody anger and horror at what had been found, which could cloud anyone's judgement.

That people are going to argue about the numbers does, in my mind no way diminsh the horror and disgust at what took place. It also does not somehow mean there was no Holocaust or it was not as bad a Holcaust as first thought.

Even if the war had ended when the camps and arrangements for Jewish people to go to the work camps and to execute many of them were only at the planning stage, that in itself would be enough to make the Nazi's guilty of a crime against humanity.

It seems to me, like the numbers of deaths, reports of torture of witnesses such as Hoess are conflicting. To what extent that causes doubt about his confessions, I am not sure. But what appears to be in no doubt is that he was in charge and terrible things happened. I do not like it when those in charge weasel their way out of responsibilities or have the likes of yourself try and do it for them.

I do know about the Bengal Famine, but it is not relevant to the discussion here. Suffice it to say the Nazis stooped so slow in their determination to wage war, destroy and kill that sadly others resourted to extreme measures to try and defend themselves and then fight back to remove the Nazis.

I can of course also use an argument you have, that some prisoners at the camps were not treated so badly and point out that many Indians did not suffer from famine and many did economcally and politically well out of the war.

Sadly that is the nature of war.
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:29 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David, the holocaust denier, who is getting a bit weird wrote: Whoa Partner, I don't care if you are gay.


So why did you bring it up in a post if I'm not gay?


Me thinks you doth protest too much, Matt-
The conversation was, " Can you give us your little speech about how "revisionists" are poorly treated again?

I think not....it seems to get you excited in
inappropriate ways...
Why does that make you "gay?"

You are a sicko, Matt, because you love sick tales of human soap.
You also snicker at the jailing of Revisionists.

Now that you have brought it up, You have your own issues about gays, dude...remember your rage at having your posts separated from my blue posts
by the innocuous coloring? Now, I post in green
just to avoid your issues with the color pink. :shock: :D

Remember your trash rants about sodomizing Nazis?


So, don't so defensive about your sexuality, Dude. I would bet that
most of your amusement is by yourself anyway.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:47 pm

Nessie wrote:David, where yu see a Soviet and UK conspiracy, I see the camps being found, the chaos that ensued, the reports of destroyed documents, unreliable and/or contradictory witness testimony and palin bloody anger and horror at what had been found, which could cloud anyone's judgement.
What are you babbling about? The Germans left tons
of documents- The Brits and Soviets kept them hidden...for years.
You are trying to justify the bullsh** of the Nuremberg Tribunal.
The prosecution spend thousands of hours going over records, looking
for any little sign of Hitler's alleged Order. They didn't find anything
so they extracted a error riddled "Confession" from Hoess
Guess what, dumba** the prosecution also had the defendants.
Ever think WHY the defendants did not contest the claim that 1.4 million
people were killed at Majdanek?

And, yes. At the end of the War the camps were in chaos, as was Germany.
It was a horrible tragedy and the Brits. exploited it as a "justifcation"
of having Declared war on Germany.


That people are going to argue about the numbers does, in my mind no way diminsh the horror and disgust at what took place. It also does not somehow mean there was no Holocaust or it was not as bad a Holcaust as first thought.
Oh? So 78,000 people dying of disease is the
same as 1,400,000 people being gassed and turned into fertilizer?
Maybe, but if it doesn't make a difference, why are you getting your
undies in a knot when scholars finally get the right figure?




Even if the war had ended when the camps and arrangements for Jewish people to go to the work camps and to execute many of them were only at the planning stage, that in itself would be enough to make the Nazi's guilty of a crime against humanity.

It seems to me, like the numbers of deaths, reports of torture of witnesses such as Hoess are conflicting. To what extent that causes doubt about his confessions, I am not sure. But what appears to be in no doubt is that he was in charge and terrible things happened. I do not like it when those in charge weasel their way out of responsibilities or have the likes of yourself try and do it for them.
Ah, dude, Hoess was hanged. He ain't going anywhere.
At this point the issue is the honesty of our own government...as in using tortured
confessions and how propaganda contaminates honest history.



I do know about the Bengal Famine, but it is not relevant to the discussion here.
Funny, that is what you Brits always say. Yes it is relevant.
Suffice it to say the Nazis stooped so slow in their determination to wage war, destroy and kill that sadly others resourted to extreme measures to try and defend themselves and then fight back to remove the Nazis.
Oh? The Germans were invading India?

I can of course also use an argument you have, that some prisoners at the camps were not treated so badly and point out that many Indians did not suffer from famine and many did economcally and politically well out of the war.

Sadly that is the nature of war.
War? How about a callous Imperial government?
The Bengalis starved because the British took their rice. But only
4,000,000 of them


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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Austin Harper » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:50 pm

David wrote:Me thinks you doth protest too much, Matt

The quote you are trying to use is "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." Methinks is one word. Also, it goes at the end of the phrase in this quote. The correct conjugation of "to do" for "you" is "do." Or you could have been going for "thou dost." Also, "protest" in this case means "insist" not "object." It comes from the Latin pro- + testis.

In fact, regarding most of David's Holocaust garbage, he doth protest too much, methinks.
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Nessie » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:14 pm

I understand that documents, particularly from the former USSR are still appearing and I have no issue with revisting them to learn more. So long as that approach is to find out if we can get more accurate figures, not if we can just revise them down. There are no knot tying undies going on here! (What a strange rant :? )

There we executions as well as starvation in the camps. A starvation camp is still a death camp, think of the UK POWs in the Far East.

This I find intreguing when you say "the Brits. exploited it as a "justifcation" of having Declared war on Germany." Can you confirm if you are a Nazi sympathiser or not for me please?

I agree with you on the unreliablity of tortured confessions, but see there is conflicting evidence as to to what extent torture was used on Hoess. It still syands that the camp he was in charge of was horrific and he has to be responsible for that.

The Bengal Famine is irrelevant to a discussion about evidence of executions at a death camp. India was under threat of invasion from Japan. You will get no argument from me that much of the British Empire was callous.
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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:14 pm

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Me thinks you doth protest too much, Matt- The conversation was, " .......
Tsk tsk tsk ..wrong David. Look above, at your post 24# before you try to edit it.....

David the holocaust denier in Post24# wrote: "I think not....it seems to get you excited in inappropriate ways. Like when we discuss National Socialist policy toward gays...hmmmm."
So out of nowhere you introduced the word "gay"

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: You are a sicko, Matt, because you love sick tales of human soap.You also snicker at the jailing of Revisionists.
David, you are a nutty holocaust denier, who posts rubbish on the Skeptic Society's forum. I am a skeptic member who simply destroys all your fabrications with equal ease!

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Now that you have brought it up, You have your own issues about gays,
Tsk tsk tsk.. Read "Post 24#" Who brought it up? You did. Amusingly, you can't read your own posts let alone read history. You simply fabricate entire stories! .

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Remember your trash rants about sodomizing Nazis?
No and I noticed you are also unable to show any such link either. Is this another of your fabrications?

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: So, don't so defensive about your sexuality, Dude. I would bet that most of your amusement is by yourself anyway.
Err David, most of the members of this forum know about my girlfriend from my post about breaking my arm at Christmas by missing our bed....

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Re David's reply to Nessie

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:37 pm

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: What are you babbling about? The Germans left tons of documents- The Brits and Soviets kept them hidden...for years.
Note how David doesn't actually list any such documents

David the lying holocaust denier wrote: They didn't find anything so they extracted a error riddled "Confession" from Hoess
Note how David can't actually state how or provide any evidence that Hoess was tortured. Nor can he explain why Hoess testimony was dismissed at the Nuremberg trials anyway.

DR. KAUTFFMANN: Is it true that you, yourself, have made no exact notes regarding the figures of the number of those victims because you were forbidden to make them?
HOESS: Yes, that is correct.

Nessie wrote: I do know about the Bengal Famine
Neither does David
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: Oh? The Germans were invading India?
No David, the Japanese had invaded Burma and cut off the rice supplies. The rice was sent to Calcutta.

David is quite senile and every fabrication he brings up in this post has been thoroughly destroyed earlier.

"The Bengal Rice Famine" Thread
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=16092

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:52 pm

Nessie wrote:I understand that documents, particularly from the former USSR are still appearing and I have no issue with revisting them to learn more. So long as that approach is to find out if we can get more accurate figures, not if we can just revise them down. There are no knot tying undies going on here! (What a strange rant :? )
Why don't you want to revise the figures down?
Don't you like good news? As far as I know the figures have all gone down
from the post-War period.
At Auschwitz, Majdanek, Dachau. All down.



There we executions as well as starvation in the camps. A starvation camp is still a death camp, think of the UK POWs in the Far East.
??? ok.


This I find intreguing when you say "the Brits. exploited it as a "justifcation" of having Declared war on Germany." Can you confirm if you are a Nazi sympathiser or not for me please?

??? You do know that it was the British who declared
war on Germany in 1939. A.J.P Taylor's Origins of the Second World War.
It was over the City of Danzig....or does knowing a bit of history make me
a Nazi sympathiser?



I agree with you on the unreliablity of tortured confessions, but see there is conflicting evidence as to to what extent torture was used on Hoess. It still syands that the camp he was in charge of was horrific and he has to be responsible for that.

Hoess' confession is unreliable because it is riddled with
impossibilities on all the key issues. The fact that the Nuremberg Tribunal
allowed a confession obtained by torture into court is a separate disgrace
to the Tribunal. As to responsibility...Mr. Hoess was hanged. Maybe other people who got away also deserved to hang.
But also remember that in the course of justice, none of us
Should see salvation: So, it pays to win wars.


The Bengal Famine is irrelevant to a discussion about evidence of executions at a death camp. India was under threat of invasion from Japan. You will get no argument from me that much of the British Empire was callous.


Excuse me but I don't think so. There was a reason
that the Soviets, the British, and the Americans all had vast propaganda
machines: To convince their own people that the War was worth the
huge sacrifices....and to divert attention away from their own "crimes"
and mistakes. Churchill's Famine in Bengal being a crime, in my book.

The point of Revisionism has very little to do with rehabilitating long hanged
Germans but to understand how our own government(s) influence opinion.
It is still an important issue....like the Weapons of Mass Destruction
propaganda that got us into Iraq.







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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:13 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the holocaust denier in Post24# wrote: "I think not....it seems to get you excited in inappropriate ways. Like when we discuss National Socialist policy toward gays...hmmmm."
So out of nowhere you introduced the word "gay"

"out of nowhere?" Why don't you go look up the discussion regarding the German persecution of gays in this forum?

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: You are a sicko, Matt, because you love sick tales of human soap.You also snicker at the jailing of Revisionists.
David, you are a nutty holocaust denier, who posts rubbish on the Skeptic Society's forum. I am a skeptic member who simply destroys all your fabrications with equal ease!
I would rather be nutty than be a Fascist Pig who
condones throwing people in jail for writing books.



David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Now that you have brought it up, You have your own issues about gays,
Tsk tsk tsk.. Read "Post 24#" Who brought it up? You did. Amusingly, you can't read your own posts let alone read history. You simply fabricate entire stories! .

David the insane holocaust denier wrote: Remember your trash rants about sodomizing Nazis?
No and I noticed you are also unable to show any such link either. Is this another of your fabrications?

Gawd, Matt, it is bad enough trying to read your garbage
once.


David the insane holocaust denier wrote: So, don't so defensive about your sexuality, Dude. I would bet that most of your amusement is by yourself anyway.
Err David, most of the members of this forum know about my girlfriend from my post about breaking my arm at Christmas by missing our bed....


I am sorry but I hear you do have to careful with those
inflatable dolls...they will spring a leak, fly around the room, and you broke
your arm trying to catch it.

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Re: Höfle Telegram / Evidence of 715,000 /Treblinka

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:32 pm

Re: The Non-Jewish Holocaust

Post #26 Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:11 am

The Nazi authorities were probably sucking dick in the Ernst Julius Röhm attic room and too busy to do anything.

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Re: Re David's reply to Nessie

Post by David » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:57 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
David the lying holocaust denier wrote: What are you babbling about? The Germans left tons of documents- The Brits and Soviets kept them hidden...for years.
Note how David doesn't actually list any such documents


Matt, you are such a lying dumba**
Take just the Bad Arolsen Holocaust Archive

"After 60 years of being hidden away from the public, Nazi records about the 17.5 million people - Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, mental patients, handicapped, political prisoners and other undesirables – they persecuted during the regime's 12 years in power will be open to the public.



"The archives contain 50 million pages, housed in thousands of filing cabinets in 6 buildings. Overall, there are 16 miles of shelves holding information about the victims of the Nazis."



The National Socialist regime was a repressive police state.
It kept vast and accurate records which show the complete workings
of the German institutions of oppression.
And not one document which supports the claim of a Hitler Order
to exterminate all (or any) Jews....or gypsies, or gays.

In light of this mass of documentation Believers have some explaining to do.