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Balmoral95
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Re: Websites

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:40 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:54 am
Great, another place for the loony bin to post their crap videos.
Seems to me it's replacement, as sites like this, Rodoh,Codoh, AHF stumble and struggle along at a glacial pace... The latter probably has the best chance for survival. It's kinda like the early days of the shift from broadcast to cable TV: You can stick with 3 channels that are crap or you can go tech and pay for 47 that show crap.....

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:50 pm

Christopher Webb has a new website, maybe he’ll get it right this time:

https://www.holocausthistoricalsociety. ... hcamp.html
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:27 pm

The About Us statement is dated 2014, and most of the site seems to consist of apparently dead links.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:44 pm

Let’s hope for the “worst”. I pray it goes down in a few months.


He hardly deserves any platform.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:27 pm
The About Us statement is dated 2014, and most of the site seems to consist of apparently dead links.
He just posted it on a Facebook group I belong to (which frankly I pay little attention).

I tried clicking around in it and found the same thing. The post shows pictures of Treblinka that I’ve seen before and he says are new.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:54 pm

He's worse than an idiot. Looks like a lot of recycling from HEART and from his books, where the links are live. Lisciotto probably still involved.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:54 pm
He's worse than an idiot. Looks like a lot of recycling from HEART and from his books, where the links are live. Lisciotto probably still involved.
Back when I got into this I went hunting for books on the subject I came across Webb’s books on Treblinka and Belzec. I went looking to buy them but found them way out of my price range. Now, that wouldn’t necessarily discourage me, I can generally make that work out. But the reviews were so bad I dropped them.

This is before I ran across the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful. I’m very wary of HEART and only post things from it when I confirm from other sources the information it provides.

So, no, this will not be one I will visit.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 pm
. . . the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful.
There's no controversy: Deathcamps.org/HEART people made defamatory charges against certain individuals, some associated now with HC, and Lisciotto undertook a campaign of digital harassment of those individuals. Fence-sitting or neutrality on this is not feasible, IMO.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:21 pm
I’m very wary of HEART and only post things from it when I confirm from other sources the information it provides.
HEART doesn't make clear what their material is sourced from. I've found enough odd stuff there that I stay away entirely. If I can confirm something on HEART somewhere else, why not just use the somewhere else?
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 pm
the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful.
There's no controversy: Deathcamps.org/HEART people made defamatory charges against certain individuals, some associated now with HC, and Lisciotto undertook a campaign of digital harassment of those individuals. Fence-sitting on this is not feasible, IMO.
I don’t get into it because bringing it up here is not worth it. There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not. If they ask about it I will give them the link for it and leave it at that. I wasn’t a part of any of that and only learned about it afterwards.

I’ve had deniers bring it up in an effort to denigrate the HC posters. I won’t argue that point with them and neither should anyone else (IMO).
HEART doesn't make clear what their material is sourced from. I've found enough odd stuff there that I stay away entirely. If I can confirm something on HEART somewhere else, why not just use the somewhere else?
Point taken. The only thing I’ve posted from there in awhile is survivor testimony that I couldn’t track down from somewhere else. It’s on one of Montgomery’s old threads and he brought it up.

I always qualify it and I’ve cautioned others from using it exclusively.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:47 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 pm
the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful.
There's no controversy: Deathcamps.org/HEART people made defamatory charges against certain individuals, some associated now with HC, and Lisciotto undertook a campaign of digital harassment of those individuals. Fence-sitting on this is not feasible, IMO.
I don’t get into it because bringing it up here is not worth it. There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not.
I'm not saying to bring it up - I just don't see how to be neutral.

But there's also a reason to raise the history in that it makes clear some of what is behind HEART and explains some of the views on it.
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
The only thing I’ve posted from there in awhile is survivor testimony that I couldn’t track down from somewhere else.
LOL I had top of mind how HEART presented Dawid Sierakowiak's diary, excerpting it and transcribing it incompetently.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:01 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:47 pm
LOL I had top of mind how HEART presented Dawid Sierakowiak's diary, excerpting it and transcribing it incompetently.
I wasn’t all that comfortable using what I found but it’s the only place I found it.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Denying-History » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:07 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not. . .
No offense, but there is reason to bring it up. Someone was circulating fabricated documents and photographs (as being authentic) which is actually important. Perhaps this isn't the best location for this discussion, but its not one we should avoid. It should be imho actively stated that HEART as a resouce is crap and that their likely best left in a corner to rot.
Last edited by Denying-History on Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:12 am

Agree. That's a good point, they tried to pin their own BS on people who had nothing to do with it.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:16 am

Denying-History wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:07 am
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not. . .
No offense, but there is reason to bring it up. Someone was circulating fabricated documents and photographs (as being authentic) which is actually important. Perhaps this isn't the best location for this discussion, but its not one we should avoid. It should be imho actively stated that HEART as a resouce is crap and that their likely best left in a corner to rot.
This is why I said if they wanted to know about it I would give them the necessary links to find out for themselves.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Denying-History » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:22 am

Chris also probably hid the fact he was the one that created these fabrications with this "Andy" figure as a fallback. I'm going to make this my last comment on the matter because as I said "[p]erhaps this isn't the best location for this discussion". HOWEVER 1 confirmed fake photograph, 2 confirmed fake documents, 3 sketchy documents, 1 sketchy photograph and not to mention Webb's "The Treblinka Death Camp" giving me vibes of faked interviews as well is probably all enough to warrant a thread of its own.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Websites

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:26 am

two last (piling on) comments: one of the faked documents has fooled people posting here even long after it was exposed; and I wrote that Webb and Lisciotto "tried to pin their own BS on people who had nothing to do with it" but actually some of those attacked were the ones who discovered the problem and tried to head off the problem . . .
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:26 am
two last (piling on) comments: one of the faked documents has fooled people posting here even long after it was exposed;
This is why I always verify photos before posting. That episode (among others) taught me best to verify photos before posting them. The same with any documents I provide.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:15 am

I have a Twitter post but I don’t want to find it.

HC is getting some good press:
https://mobile.twitter.com/waitmanb/sta ... 8068346880
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:15 pm

Video of the Treblinka museum, saving it here. For some reason I couldn’t view it so I’m going to check it again.

“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21

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Re: Websites

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:28 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 pm
the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful.
There's no controversy: Deathcamps.org/HEART people made defamatory charges against certain individuals, some associated now with HC, and Lisciotto undertook a campaign of digital harassment of those individuals. Fence-sitting on this is not feasible, IMO.
I don’t get into it because bringing it up here is not worth it. There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not. If they ask about it I will give them the link for it and leave it at that. I wasn’t a part of any of that and only learned about it afterwards.

I’ve had deniers bring it up in an effort to denigrate the HC posters. I won’t argue that point with them and neither should anyone else (IMO).
HEART doesn't make clear what their material is sourced from. I've found enough odd stuff there that I stay away entirely. If I can confirm something on HEART somewhere else, why not just use the somewhere else?
Point taken. The only thing I’ve posted from there in awhile is survivor testimony that I couldn’t track down from somewhere else. It’s on one of Montgomery’s old threads and he brought it up.

I always qualify it and I’ve cautioned others from using it exclusively.
Thanks. In fact, I don't know about HEART. But right now, I'm reading three other Holocaust-oriented things, and plan to post about them in a day or so. So, no need to send me the link right now.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Re: Websites

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:45 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:28 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:38 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 pm
the controversy (I’m not going to stray into that). I’m a neutral observer , I’ve found useful things on the old ARC site but HC is much more up-to-date and useful.
There's no controversy: Deathcamps.org/HEART people made defamatory charges against certain individuals, some associated now with HC, and Lisciotto undertook a campaign of digital harassment of those individuals. Fence-sitting on this is not feasible, IMO.
I don’t get into it because bringing it up here is not worth it. There’s no point in bringing it up to members here who don’t know about it. Most of us know about it but newer members like Goody or Upton may not. If they ask about it I will give them the link for it and leave it at that. I wasn’t a part of any of that and only learned about it afterwards.

I’ve had deniers bring it up in an effort to denigrate the HC posters. I won’t argue that point with them and neither should anyone else (IMO).
HEART doesn't make clear what their material is sourced from. I've found enough odd stuff there that I stay away entirely. If I can confirm something on HEART somewhere else, why not just use the somewhere else?
Point taken. The only thing I’ve posted from there in awhile is survivor testimony that I couldn’t track down from somewhere else. It’s on one of Montgomery’s old threads and he brought it up.

I always qualify it and I’ve cautioned others from using it exclusively.
Thanks. In fact, I don't know about HEART. But right now, I'm reading three other Holocaust-oriented things, and plan to post about them in a day or so. So, no need to send me the link right now.
Let me know if you want to know more. I will give you the links.

Naturally I believe those that post at Holocaust Controversies. My issue is with deniers that bring it up in an attempt to disparage those that post there.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

https://twitter.com/jonronson/status/10 ... 24832?s=21