Whitefish neo-nazi march

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:38 pm

That's probably a life worthy of saving for him. Kids crossing borders in hopes of better lives - not so much. Those who aren't dying of exhaustion and dehydration on transports are interred in camps and others outfitted with snappy black (permanent marker) numbers on their forearms. Where have I heard that before...
.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:48 pm

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm

Anyone else think that the withdrawal from Syria is the worst and most damaging action of the Trump administration so far?

I'm serious. This will empower Russia and Turkey at the expense of natural American proxies like the SDF. I am absolutely disgusted. Many brave men and women will suffer and die because of this choice. The fact that he made this decision after a conversation with Erdogan is worse than any Russian collusion.

This is nothing short of the return of the Republican Party of Robert Taft and Charles Lindburgh.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:17 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm
Anyone else think that the withdrawal from Syria is the worst and most damaging action of the Trump administration so far?
Not me.
Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm
This will empower Russia and
Iran.

I think that these horses left the barn some time ago. Russia and Iran were willing to make the commitment to keep Assad in power and put in the resources to do it. In that sense, whether you favor their policy or not, it succeeded in 2015, not this week.
Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm
natural American proxies like the SDF.
I think reducing the SDF to an American tool is mistaken. An article I read earlier today addressed this, "Syrian Kurds [the dominant group in the SFD] aren’t fighting as a favor to the United States. They seek to establish an autonomous Kurdish enclave in Northeast Syria . . ." This is not a US goal.
Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:56 pm
I am absolutely disgusted. Many brave men and women will suffer and die because of this choice. The fact that he made this decision after a conversation with Erdogan is worse than any Russian collusion.

This is nothing short of the return of the Republican Party of Robert Taft and Charles Lindburgh.
I will agree with only this much: the way Trump arrived at his decision and then did this, without consulting with other countries which the US drew in, deserves criticism. The US intervention in Syria, since the start under Obama, has IMO been illegal. It needed authorization, which neither Obama nor Trump wished to get, and the intervention is dubious in international law. Most important, there has been no focused or coherent national debate/discussion on US strategy and goals in Syria and the region. Convoluted legalistic arguments stretching the 9/11 AUMF to Syria do not cut it.

The usual suspects - Rubio, Graham, et al - will say the usual things about this, but their old arguments don't change how the situation in Syria has changed since 2015.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Balmoral95 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:06 am

Well, no, because there's more yet to come... :mrgreen:

Politically, yes, it probably stands as one of the worst. From a security pov, who knows as the publicly available data to assess that remains scant and elusive.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:49 am

>> Politically, yes ...

Making this decision in a phone call with Erdogan, at Erdogan's request and surprising even Erdogan, would be startling if it weren't Trump. Could he have agreed to this with Putin in Helsinki?

Also, given the recent political swirl - Mueller's progress along with that of the SDNY and the sentencing of Trump associates, NY state's legal action against the Trump Foundation, the market meltdown, China's trade-related economic slowdown and global economic warning signs, the Wall-funding muck, Kashoggi's murder and the Senate resolution, the '18 midterms, WH staffing problems, and so on - this action (including the way it was done) surely becomes part of an explosive mix.

On the security question, there is one oddity, contributing to the elusiveness of the situation: I've read those close to the Kurds making what seem to me to be contradictory appraisals: the 2000 US troops have been key, on the one hand, and the Kurds (with 10,000 casualties) have been key, on the other. Given Russian advances since 2015, I somehow doubt that the US stake is key.

Personally, I would have preferred that Trump cut off support for the Saudi military effort in Yemen first.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:42 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:17 am
I think reducing the SDF to an American tool is mistaken. An article I read earlier today addressed this, "Syrian Kurds [the dominant group in the SFD] aren’t fighting as a favor to the United States. They seek to establish an autonomous Kurdish enclave in Northeast Syria . . ." This is not a US goal.
I was not reducing them to a mere tool - I stated that they were a "natural proxy" - i.e that they could be turned into a proxy in the future. I support the creation of a Kurdish autonomous province in Northeastern Syria, and I applaud the sincere efforts at multi-confessional federalism by the PYD and it's partners. It would be sad, IMO to see this state destroyed - especially since they can be groomed into a future American partner. It is dishonorable, in my opinion, to abandon them after they have served as a valuable ally to coalition forces. JSOFCOM reportedly greatly preferred to operate with the SDF as opposed to the FSA.

Further to the heart of the matter - ISIL is not yet defeated, and they have been reportedly been reorganizing as an insurgency in the Syria/Iraq border provinces as well as in Raqqa itself. The inevitable and necessary redirecting of resources by the SDF to combat a future Turkish onslaught will create a vacuum for the resurgence of ISIL in Northeastern Syria. Trump, as I predicted in 2016, has become the caliphate's President.

The most shocking aspect of this whole debacle, as I stated earlier, the Trump's positioning of himself as a hitman for Erdogan. Is he not aware of what occurred in Afrin last year? Is he not enlightened to the fact that Turkey is the acknowledged patron of Jabat-Al-Nusra and Fatah-Al-Islam, two groups that even the Saudis wouldn't touch? Is he not clued in to the multiple reports of collusion between MIT (Turkish Intelligence) and ISIL in 2014/15?

I see Turkey as a more serious threat than either Iran or KSA. Trump is proving to be just as much a lackey for Erdogan as he is for Putin.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:16 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:42 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:17 am
I think reducing the SDF to an American tool is mistaken. An article I read earlier today addressed this, "Syrian Kurds [the dominant group in the SFD] aren’t fighting as a favor to the United States. They seek to establish an autonomous Kurdish enclave in Northeast Syria . . ." This is not a US goal.
I was not reducing them to a mere tool - I stated that they were a "natural proxy" - i.e that they could be turned into a proxy in the future. I support the creation of a Kurdish autonomous province in Northeastern Syria, and I applaud the sincere efforts at multi-confessional federalism by the PYD and it's partners. It would be sad, IMO to see this state destroyed - especially since they can be groomed into a future American partner. It is dishonorable, in my opinion, to abandon them after they have served as a valuable ally to coalition forces. JSOFCOM reportedly greatly preferred to operate with the SDF as opposed to the FSA.
But a proxy doesn't have potentially differing goals from its principal -and what you (or I) support is not the issue: there's been almost no public debate of such prospects in the US, including what support for a Kurdish autonomous enclave would mean for relations with Turkey and Russia. Kurdish ambitions don't necessarily mesh with US strategy. Anyway, there was a long article in the NY Times in January in which Russia's fait accompli was detailed and in which a former US ambassador to Turkey (under Bush and Obama) and Iraq (under Obama) was quoted on US relations with the Kurdish fighters, as described to Turkey: “We told the Turks that the Kurds were temporary, tactical, and transactional to defeat ISIS. Now we need them to contain Iran.”
Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:42 am
The most shocking aspect of this whole debacle, as I stated earlier, the Trump's positioning of himself as a hitman for Erdogan.
More shocking than Helsinki?

I think that the political fallout from Mattis' departure is potentially one of Trump's biggest problems in this, at least now, along with the reactions of allies. Predicting the fallout in Syria and the region is really difficult. But, to my mind, much of this and the Russian position were secured two-three years ago, not with this pullout.

Again, most important, the American military involvement in Syria has gone on without legal authorization from Congress and in the absence of anything approaching the kind of discourse that should have occurred in a democratic republic. That goes for Obama too.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:09 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:16 am
Anyway, there was a long article in the NY Times in January in which Russia's fait accompli was detailed and in which a former US ambassador to Turkey (under Bush and Obama) and Iraq (under Obama) was quoted on US relations with the Kurdish fighters, as described to Turkey: “We told the Turks that the Kurds were temporary, tactical, and transactional to defeat ISIS. Now we need them to contain Iran.”
This is a terrible idea for a number of reasons, not the least of which is Turkey's increasing hostility towards the west, it's more or less open support for Al-Qaeda-linked rebel groups in Syria, and it's ambiguous stance vis a vis ISIS. You could not pick a worse ally. At least the Saudis, vile as they are, have not been credibly accused of collusion with Daesh.

At this juncture any policy that harms Turkish interests is desirable for just that reason. We are witnessing a three-way race for regional dominance between KSA, Iran, and Turkey, and I would rate Turkey as the worst option of the three.

They cooperated with Al-Qaeda proxies to commit war crimes in Afrin last year, and now Trump wants to gain their acquaintance - ludicrous. Made all the more absurd by the fact that Erdogan has been hot-and-cold with the Iranian regime at times. He is not a consistent opponent by any means.

More shocking than Helsinki?
Absolutely. Putin is a master manipulator - it can be attributed to his background in intelligence. The way he utilized religion to manipulate GWB is a classic example of this. Someone like Trump - whose IQ likely doesn't top 80 - is a prime target. It was entirely predictable that he would fall hook, line, and sinker.

Erdogan, on the other hand, essentially wears his heart on his sleeve. He is a caricature of a petty, spiteful religious zealot who plainly hates America. He fools no one.

I think that the political fallout from Mattis' departure is potentially one of Trump's biggest problems in this, at least now, along with the reactions of allies.


He;s going to have a hard time finding a new Defense Secretary.
Predicting the fallout in Syria and the region is really difficult. But, to my mind, much of this and the Russian position were secured two-three years ago, not with this pullout.
I agree with you there. It's not Russia that I fear here - their dominance in Syria was assured a while back. I'm worried about Turkish designs on northeastern Syria, and the possibility of wholesale slaughter by their troops akin to what we saw last year.

In my opinion we will shortly see a split between Iran and Russia over who will get to be the undisputed master of Syria. It is no secret that Assad prefers to be Moscow's servant rather than Tehran's. I discussed this exact subject with a diplomat from an ME state at a reception a few months back and he agreed with me.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:22 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:09 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:16 am
Anyway, there was a long article in the NY Times in January in which Russia's fait accompli was detailed and in which a former US ambassador to Turkey (under Bush and Obama) and Iraq (under Obama) was quoted on US relations with the Kurdish fighters, as described to Turkey: “We told the Turks that the Kurds were temporary, tactical, and transactional to defeat ISIS. Now we need them to contain Iran.”
This is a terrible idea for a number of reasons, not the least of which is Turkey's increasing hostility towards the west, it's more or less open support for Al-Qaeda-linked rebel groups in Syria, and it's ambiguous stance vis a vis ISIS. You could not pick a worse ally. At least the Saudis, vile as they are, have not been credibly accused of collusion with Daesh.

At this juncture any policy that harms Turkish interests is desirable for just that reason. We are witnessing a three-way race for regional dominance between KSA, Iran, and Turkey, and I would rate Turkey as the worst option of the three.

They cooperated with Al-Qaeda proxies to commit war crimes in Afrin last year, and now Trump wants to gain their acquaintance - ludicrous. Made all the more absurd by the fact that Erdogan has been hot-and-cold with the Iranian regime at times. He is not a consistent opponent by any means.
Two points: first, the NYT piece makes clear that the policy of "using" the Kurds, short-term, was being instituted well over a year ago, making the announcement of the troop withdrawal part of an overall US approach - the Kurds have not been long-term allies of the US; second, under both Obama and Trump, US military involvement in Syria has been unauthorized and has had little apparent public support. So the troop withdrawal isn't the most significant moment in all this.

My point about Putin is a little different to how you took it: Trump's "America First" foreign policy has certainly gravitated toward authoritarian, "strong man" leaders - and includes "outsourcing" to select strong men (e.g., Putin, MBS). I also have to believe that a number of markers were put down in the secret discussions in Helsinki. In the context, I don't see Trump's "outsourcing" to Erdogan as being so shocking (surprising) or representing something new or crossing a line.

What I wonder is whether Trump will fire Jerome Powell . . .
Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 5:09 am
He;s going to have a hard time finding a new Defense Secretary.
Ronny Jackson is available. So, too, is Tom Cotton.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:52 pm

This is kind of our mini-Trump thread so I wanted to share with you a shirt I really need to get:

Image
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:22 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:27 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:19 am
Ojeda struck me as kind of ridiculous.
He really seemed to care a lot about his constituents - more than can be said for Carol Miller. He has a Truman-esque outspokenness about him that would contrast favorably when juxtaposed against slimy K-street types in DC. His advocacy for medical cannabis users is something that I fully support.

He would also be good for the Democratic Party nationwide. At a time when many consider the Democrats to be effeminate and out of touch with the working class, having a hardscrabble, salt-of-the-earth, Afghanistan vet as a spokesperson would turn heads and go a long way towards changing minds. The guy is basically a throwback to the FDR coalition.
{!#%@} joke hero of the "WWC"/heartland strategy:



This is not caring a lot about his constituents. It is not a white-wing New Deal revival. It is buffoonery and incompetence.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:52 pm
This is kind of our mini-Trump thread so I wanted to share with you a shirt I really need to get:
Some pundit noted that Trump got his wall and it is named Pelosi.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 am
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Police forces tend to be ex-military, tough guys who enjoy the paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi. Visit Chicago sometime. Go to the west or south side. Watch.
Ok so three things

1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. The mentality was summed up to me once as "I'm not looking for a fight, but if he wants to fight, I aint running away." I happen to think the courts/media are far too tough on police and it hurts me. . . .
Last year, I was afraid of the Nazis. This year, I’m afraid of the police,” Woolfork said. “This is not making anyone that I know feel safe.”
If you fear the police I assume that you have something to hide. What has Lisa done I wonder? ;) . . . .
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... protesters
Two interesting stories in The Guardian today suggesting the sort of ideological biases that circulate amongst the policing personnel in the US:

directly relevant to this old discussion: "How a California officer protected neo-Nazis and targeted their victims: Court hearings reveal investigator in stabbings of leftwing protesters pursued criminal cases against anti-fascists but advocated no charges for armed white supremacists"

indirectly relevant: "The sheriffs resisting Washington's new gun laws: 'I'm not going to enforce that' - Newly implemented ballot initiative and upcoming bills could produce some of the strictest gun laws in the US"
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:22 pm
Jeff_36 wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:27 am
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:19 am
Ojeda struck me as kind of ridiculous.
He really seemed to care a lot about his constituents - more than can be said for Carol Miller. He has a Truman-esque outspokenness about him that would contrast favorably when juxtaposed against slimy K-street types in DC. His advocacy for medical cannabis users is something that I fully support.

He would also be good for the Democratic Party nationwide. At a time when many consider the Democrats to be effeminate and out of touch with the working class, having a hardscrabble, salt-of-the-earth, Afghanistan vet as a spokesperson would turn heads and go a long way towards changing minds. The guy is basically a throwback to the FDR coalition.
{!#%@} joke hero of the "WWC"/heartland strategy:



This is not caring a lot about his constituents. It is not a white-wing New Deal revival. It is buffoonery and incompetence.
Maybe not the best decision that someone has ever made.......

Oh well. Let's just forget that I'd ever mentioned the guy.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:43 pm

LOL, fair enough!
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:01 am

Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:55 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 am
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Police forces tend to be ex-military, tough guys who enjoy the paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi. Visit Chicago sometime. Go to the west or south side. Watch.
Ok so three things

1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. The mentality was summed up to me once as "I'm not looking for a fight, but if he wants to fight, I aint running away." I happen to think the courts/media are far too tough on police and it hurts me. . . .
Last year, I was afraid of the Nazis. This year, I’m afraid of the police,” Woolfork said. “This is not making anyone that I know feel safe.”
If you fear the police I assume that you have something to hide. What has Lisa done I wonder? ;) . . . .
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... protesters
Two interesting stories in The Guardian today suggesting the sort of ideological biases that circulate amongst the policing personnel in the US:

directly relevant to this old discussion: "How a California officer protected neo-Nazis and targeted their victims: Court hearings reveal investigator in stabbings of leftwing protesters pursued criminal cases against anti-fascists but advocated no charges for armed white supremacists"

indirectly relevant: "The sheriffs resisting Washington's new gun laws: 'I'm not going to enforce that' - Newly implemented ballot initiative and upcoming bills could produce some of the strictest gun laws in the US"
more, this time involving federal security forces:

"Revealed: FBI investigated civil rights group as 'terrorism' threat and viewed KKK as victims: Bureau spied on California activists, citing potential ‘conspiracy’ against the ‘rights’ of neo-Nazis"
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:12 pm

Just sayin’, need to be more aware of who your audience is:

Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:28 pm

Ass.
Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:48 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Ok so three things

1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, .........
I stopped reading right there. I post because my brother in law is a cop. Total authoritarian scum bag. They enjoy putting on the uniform and busting heads to exercise their authority. Have I met exceptions? Of course. None of them happy campers....just waiting for their retirement.

There is BIAS in the selection, training, retention, promotion, disciplining of cops to get people who will do as they are told.

Simple conditioning.

Lets not deny reality.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:49 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:28 pm
Ass.
He's not even white...... What the {!#%@}? Dumb troll.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:54 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:55 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 am
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Police forces tend to be ex-military, tough guys who enjoy the paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi. Visit Chicago sometime. Go to the west or south side. Watch.
Ok so three things

1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. The mentality was summed up to me once as "I'm not looking for a fight, but if he wants to fight, I aint running away." I happen to think the courts/media are far too tough on police and it hurts me. . . .
Last year, I was afraid of the Nazis. This year, I’m afraid of the police,” Woolfork said. “This is not making anyone that I know feel safe.”
If you fear the police I assume that you have something to hide. What has Lisa done I wonder? ;) . . . .
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... protesters
Two interesting stories in The Guardian today suggesting the sort of ideological biases that circulate amongst the policing personnel in the US:

directly relevant to this old discussion: "How a California officer protected neo-Nazis and targeted their victims: Court hearings reveal investigator in stabbings of leftwing protesters pursued criminal cases against anti-fascists but advocated no charges for armed white supremacists"

indirectly relevant: "The sheriffs resisting Washington's new gun laws: 'I'm not going to enforce that' - Newly implemented ballot initiative and upcoming bills could produce some of the strictest gun laws in the US"
"Texts Between Portland Police and Patriot Prayer Ringleader Joey Gibson Show Warm Exchange: The texts show that Lt. Jeff Niiya had a friendly rapport with far-right organizer Joey Gibson."

"Portland Mayor Calls For Investigation of Police After WW Reports Text Messages With Right-Wing Organizer. Read All the Texts Here. "In my opinion, these text messages appear to cross several boundaries," Mayor Ted Wheeler said."
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:30 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:54 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:55 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:35 am
Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: Police forces tend to be ex-military, tough guys who enjoy the paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi. Visit Chicago sometime. Go to the west or south side. Watch.
Ok so three things

1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. The mentality was summed up to me once as "I'm not looking for a fight, but if he wants to fight, I aint running away." I happen to think the courts/media are far too tough on police and it hurts me. . . .
Last year, I was afraid of the Nazis. This year, I’m afraid of the police,” Woolfork said. “This is not making anyone that I know feel safe.”
If you fear the police I assume that you have something to hide. What has Lisa done I wonder? ;) . . . .
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... protesters
Two interesting stories in The Guardian today suggesting the sort of ideological biases that circulate amongst the policing personnel in the US:

directly relevant to this old discussion: "How a California officer protected neo-Nazis and targeted their victims: Court hearings reveal investigator in stabbings of leftwing protesters pursued criminal cases against anti-fascists but advocated no charges for armed white supremacists"

indirectly relevant: "The sheriffs resisting Washington's new gun laws: 'I'm not going to enforce that' - Newly implemented ballot initiative and upcoming bills could produce some of the strictest gun laws in the US"
"Texts Between Portland Police and Patriot Prayer Ringleader Joey Gibson Show Warm Exchange: The texts show that Lt. Jeff Niiya had a friendly rapport with far-right organizer Joey Gibson."

"Portland Mayor Calls For Investigation of Police After WW Reports Text Messages With Right-Wing Organizer. Read All the Texts Here. "In my opinion, these text messages appear to cross several boundaries," Mayor Ted Wheeler said."
Well in that case he should be fired. This individual clearly put the needs of Mr. Gibson ahead of those of the city or Portland. In doing so he functioned as a dupe of Patriot Prayer.

.......But this was a single episode of corruption. If police, generally speaking, acted in cahoots with Neo-nazi protesters nationwide, there would be far more civil unrest and street violence in the US than there is now, because the likes of Patriot Prayer would essentially have a Green Light to terrorize and incite at will. We must also take into account the fact that Alt-Right demonstrators have a track record of staying well clear of the police so as to avoid attracting negative attention - It's all very underhanded and cowardly on their part.

............I still can't help but recall the episode where Richard Spencer was grounded and (allegedly) roughed up by Virginia staties at Charlottsville. I {!#%@} loved that. In essence, there needs to be more cops like that and less cops like Niiya.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:32 am

The point is (a) that there are more like Niiya and (b) as far as counterterrorism policy and action go, high on the list are some things, low on the list are others. Just sayin'.

Point (a) has been going on since dinosaurs walked Earth. In the late 1960s, in my little town, about 20 or so local professors, some factory workers' kids from a nearby mill town, a motley array of Quakers and pacifists, and some church people assembled each Saturday morning in front of the federal building to protest, peacefully and quietly, against the war in Vietnam. They were joined - I should say we were joined - every Saturday by an agent from a nearby FBI field office who would stand across the street from the respectful protest taking photographs of those exercising their first amendment rights. On political matters, law enforcement in the US has historically not been even-handed. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:17 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:54 pm
1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. . . . 4. None of this is to say that there arent issues, but these relate (usually) to incompitance rather than willful douchbaggery.
"Exclusive: video shows Portland officers made deal with far-right group leader: Footage obtained by the Guardian shows the officers had probable cause to arrest members of the Patriot Prayer group"

I believe that the investigative reporting on Portland's PD shows an example of systemic "willful douch[e]baggery."
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:04 pm

. . . all right we are two nations . . .

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:14 pm

This vile Andrew Anglin has his vile publication Der Sturmer, after is expansion to Hispanic and Italian, now in Greek as well. He hired Greek writers with their own 'byline' and the same nasty style and content.

http://web.archive.org/web/201901130643 ... rmer.name/

Totally disgusting but this kind of stuff is illegal in Greece. Anglin was honorable guest of Golden Dawn in Greece in 2013. My team covered it.

https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/2013 ... -synagogi/

And again
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/2017 ... st-denial/

Now, we called the DA to take action and filed an official complaint
https://www.facebook.com/xyzcontagion/p ... 5951462330
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html
XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:27 pm

This {!#%@} keeps going on and on . . .

MLS "soccer":



ICE "tracking" demonstrations favoring immigration, including one against Identity Evropa: https://www.thenation.com/article/ice-i ... -tracking/
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:43 pm

law enforcement targeting not just the left but also journalists
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:30 pm

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:28 pm

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:12 am

Also, Donald Trump is a clownfraud who only got involved in this for the attention.

Deadspin, 2014:
https://deadspin.com/there-are-just-two ... 1613879544

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:51 pm

Adam Serwer on Madison Grant, Hitler, nativism and immigration to the US, white supremacy, and Trump - a good read if only to reiterate some important points
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:21 pm

LOL - ICE are a bunch of cowards who chase down grannies. They strike me as wannabe tough guys who couldn't make the cut elsewhere and who got dumped into the shitter that is immigration enforcement. This article dose not surprise me in the least.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:27 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:21 pm
LOL - ICE are a bunch of cowards who chase down grannies. They strike me as wannabe tough guys who couldn't make the cut elsewhere and who got dumped into the shitter that is immigration enforcement. This article dose not surprise me in the least.
Not funny if you're being rounded up by them . . . they are part of the law-enforcement apparatus, no matter where you place them in the hierarchy . . .
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:17 pm
Jeff_36 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:54 pm
1. I know cops. My father and uncle were cops, all of my fathers freinds were cops, and one of my cousins is a cop. They are basically normal people, and are broadly representitive of society as a whole. What you say may be true in Russia or Saudi Arabia, but not in a civilized democratic state. . . . 4. None of this is to say that there arent issues, but these relate (usually) to incompetence rather than willful douchbaggery.
"Exclusive: video shows Portland officers made deal with far-right group leader: Footage obtained by the Guardian shows the officers had probable cause to arrest members of the Patriot Prayer group"

I believe that the investigative reporting on Portland's PD shows an example of systemic "willful douch[e]baggery."
I actually had the shooting pf Philando Castille in mind when I made the post that you quote here. The cop in question was an imbecile who completely mishandled the situation - I got the strong impression that the man had no business being a cop and that he was in way over his head. I almost felt sorry for him - he clearly lacked the mental capacity to do the job and the result was predictable, it was almost akin to Lenny from Of Mice and Men. My point is that police incompetence is a serious problem in many US jurisdictions. My father (referred to above) - a retired cop with more than 30 years of experience - shares this view and has expounded on it at some length - with the caveat that his experience is entirely Canadian. He could not for the life of him understand why someone so deficient as the Minneapolis Moron could have made the cut at all. I think that screening and intake of recruits should be adjusted - but I maintain that the very popular image of cops as a gang of killers hungry for African-American blood is ludicrous and absurd.

I tend to group police shootings into five categories:

Justified: Totally clean, nothing to see here. Alton Stering and Michael Brown are the first examples that come to mind.

Understandable Error: The officer has very good reason to think that he is justified in using deadly force, but the appearances - with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight - are deceiving. I specifically have cases like Stephon Clark, Tamir Rice and Amadou Diallo in mind here. It's unfortunate but it happens and life sucks. There was a case like that many years ago up here in a small town not far from where I grew up - police go in to a known trap house, dude comes out of the basement holding a {!#%@}' hockey stick, holding it like a rifle, it's dark and they can't tell the difference, the cops tell him to drop what they think is a gun, buddy is high as a {!#%@} kite and says {!#%@} you, they ask him again, same response, and so on and so on until they finally shoot him dead. They were deeply upset to find out that he has holding a hockey stick instead of a gun. There are no real winners in a situation like that but there is no wrongdoing either.

Tragic Accident: Accidental discharge of a weapon, accidental use of what they think is a taser, injuries sustained from something other than active force - I have Oscar Grant III and Freddy Gray in mind here. Nothing more can be said.

Gross Negligence: Like the Minneapolis shooting. Or Laquan MacDonald. The police in cases like these {!#%@} up immeasurably, commit egregious errors and should be terminated.

Criminal Intent: The only case that I can think of that fits into this category is the shooting of Walter Scott. In cases like these, criminal charges are warranted.

The problem is that BLM groups ALL incidents into the final category, rather than assessing them on a case by case basis. It makes it very hard for an impartial observer to view them as anything but a pack of liars and cretins. \

Now, ahem, to your point: I think that Lt. Niiya allowed his personal relationships with members of Patriot Prayer to influence his actions. I would classify this as corruption and I think that Niiya should be fired. However, a part of the blame lies with Patriot Prayer for deliberately cultivating willing patsies from the ranks of Law enforcement. I think that police departments across the US should keep an eye out for similar efforts.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:55 pm
I actually had the shooting pf Philando Castille in mind when I made the post . . . I tend to group police shootings into five categories . . .
Not sure why, because we weren't discussing police shootings . . . but were discussing your theory that the DC cops would attack the alt-right marchers in DC and my view that cops like paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi.
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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Jeff_36 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:38 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:11 pm
Jeff_36 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:55 pm
I actually had the shooting pf Philando Castille in mind when I made the post . . . I tend to group police shootings into five categories . . .
Not sure why, because we weren't discussing police shootings . . . but were discussing your theory that the DC cops would attack the alt-right marchers in DC and my view that cops like paramilitary cosplay as much as any red-blooded street fighting' neo-Nazi.
I held that opinion because the DC police is dominated by Black democrats, who would likely react violently to what I imagined would be unceasing racial provocations by the demonstrators.

.......I also really wanted to see Nazis get punched in the face. Like, a lot.

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Re: Whitefish neo-nazi march

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:06 pm

but they didn't, they actually protected the Nazis - and that is what we were discussing, police attitudes and reflexes, not police shootings . . . :)
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