General Books/Reading Discussion

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:33 pm

Ian Hazard wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:19 pm
An excellent book which should be in every serious Holocaust researchers collection.


Image

https://www.waterstones.com/book/9781591481270
I stopped reading Holocaust Handbooks when I realized I had better things to do with my time.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:23 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:33 pm
Ian Hazard wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:19 pm
An excellent book which should be in every serious Holocaust researchers collection.


Image

https://www.waterstones.com/book/9781591481270
I stopped reading Holocaust Handbooks when I realized I had better things to do with my time.
HC gave a similar response:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... 9281707071
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:47 pm

The Antoniou & Moses collection on Greece is excellent. Have taken another detour, to Matthaüs' Predicting the Holocaust: Jewish Organizations from Geneva on the Emergence of the "Final Solution", which, like other books in the Documenting Life and Destruction: Holocaust Sources in Context series, has a valuable (so far!) introductory essay and a collection of documents. Picking up this book reminds me how wonderful the 13-book series is (I seem to have read 10 of the titles so far, one I've not read appears to be a selection from the 6 volumes on Jewish Responses, the other a collection on children in the Holocaust).

So far I've learned a lot, including that the crafty Jews who plotted the hoaxing of "6 million" were writing in 1939 about "2,000,000 Jews [who] will be annihilated in not less a cruel way" than 1m Armenians were and in 1942 of Hitler's plot that "THREEANDHALF TO FOUR MILLIONS" were to be "EXTERMINATED IN ORDER TO RESOLVE ONCE FOR ALL JEWISH QUESTION IN EUROPE." Ah, the canonical 6 million.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:36 am

Ordered the German Army and Genocide and Hitler’s Police Battalions.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:08 am

Alright, so, just to recap with new books:
The German Army and Genocide: Crimes Against War Prisoners, Jews and other Civilians in the East, 1939-1944
Hitler’s Police Battalions: Enforcing Racial War in the East
Documents on the Holocaust
The Operation Reinhard Camps, Revised and Expanded Edition: Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka
The Evacuation, Dismantling and Liberation of KL Auschwitz
Routlidge Library Edition: Nazi Germany and the Holocaust: the Policies of Genocide: Jews and Soviet Prisoners of War in Nazi Germany
I also got the Kindle version of A Specter Hainting Europe: the Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism.

Edited to correct a horrible spelling mistake.
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:33 pm

now reading English translation published in late 2018 of Erno Munkácsi's 1947 book Hogyan történt?, on Holocaust in Hungary . . . it looks very interesting, Munkácsi was a successful Budapest attorney and prominent member of Budapest's Neolog community who served as secretary on the Judenrat during 1944
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:49 pm

After finishing Munkásci (almost done), I plan to read an article on one district in the General Gouvernement and then turn to Semelin, The Survival of the Jews in France 1940-44, which arrived yesterday. After that, finally, back to two more books on Croatia and three or four titles on Romania (one suggested by D-H months ago!).
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:37 pm

Reading got disrupted so I’m having to reset.

I was doing a re-read of Kershaw’s Hitler because I didn’t have anything new. I started glancing through Policies of Genocide: Jews and Soviet Prisoners of War in Nazi Germany last night. It’s relatively short so that may be next. OTOH while at the gym I started reading my Kindle version of A Specter Hainting Europe: the Myth of Judeo-Bolshevism. It looks interesting.

So, trying to decide between the two. I’m home for the next couple of days so I’ll figure it out and get started.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:34 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:49 pm
After finishing Munkásci (almost done), I plan to read an article on one district in the General Gouvernement and then turn to Semelin, The Survival of the Jews in France 1940-44, which arrived yesterday. After that, finally, back to two more books on Croatia and three or four titles on Romania (one suggested by D-H months ago!).
My reading list has been dead as of late, so take your time. We all do it.

Anyway got in a few books on the Congo under Leopold:

- King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild

- The Congo State is Not a Slave State by Demetrius C. Boulger

- The Truth about the Congo: The Chicago Tribune Articles by Frederick Starr

- King Leopold's Congo and the "Scramble for Africa": A Short History with Documents by Michael A. Rutz

Also recently got my hands on:

- https://twitter.com/denying_history/sta ... 11969?s=21

And Im planning to order Jan Plampers
“The Stalin Cult: A Study in the Alchemy of Power”, as well as Timothy Snyder’s
“Sketches from a Secret War”.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:08 pm

Semelin's book is really good so far. It is built around the question how it was that 75% of French Jews survived.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:59 am

“Hitler’s Police Battalions” arrived today.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:36 pm

And I keep getting further behind. A whole bunch of books came in over the holidays and pushed Primo Levi's "Saved and Drowned" back a few days.

On a less serious note, I just read the second mystery in the Monkeewrench series by P.J. Tracy (pen name of a mother-daughter writing team, now continued by the daughter after her mother's death). This one, "Live Bait," from 2004, has a Holocaust theme. I won't spoil any of the mystery by saying any more than that, but it does delve into several issues, the main one being, What action is NOW called for in the light of the Holocaust? How do we deal with the still-lingering effects of that catastrophe on its victims, perpetrators, and bystanders?

Of course, I want to make my own knowledge of the Holocaust as complete as possible, and I would like the main facts to be universally known and recognized, for the very practical reason that I want people to recognize the early warning signs of a genocide. I don't think the Holocaust will ever be repeated in detail, and certain features will always be unique to it, such as isolating and scapegoating a portion of the population and declaring them enemies of the nation. But there are some ominous echoes of it among my neighbors, who refuse to believe that Muslims can be American citizens and will say that Muslims are always and everywhere enemies of the United States.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:11 pm

I am amused by the statements of Senator King paraphrased as "....we can't maintain our civilization by using other people's babies.........." not exact, but close enough to the point of: THAT IS exactly what civilization does...........unless you start requiring people to live in cultural ghettos. But .... raise people with liberty.....and they grow up thinking there is no other way. Whatelse does King think civilization means? ((Yes I know........code words.....but still.))

With the above as the premise, let me modify the proffered sentiment to make it accurate: "........devout Sharia adhering Muslims are always and everywhere enemies of the United States, as well as to other sects of Islam as well as less than absolute devout Sharias." Has nothing to do with Islam "per se" but rather any firmly held anti-democratic anti-Freedom belief system that has a goal to subject anyone who disagrees.........................................just ask them.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:31 pm

Why are you posting this in a section about books?
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm

Why are you posting about Donald Trump in the Holocaust forum???

I am responding to what Upton posted. Its like two dots........as close together as you can get. The "ideas" that books contain.

.............................what a concept???????
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm
Why are you posting about Donald Trump in the Holocaust forum???
Because we can.
I am responding to what Upton posted. Its like two dots........as close together as you can get. The "ideas" that books contain.
Then you should quote Upton’s statement and add what what you think is relevant. That would make more sense than randomly alluding to it.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:01 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm
Why are you posting about Donald Trump in the Holocaust forum???
Because we can.
There is a schism in your value system in that what you understand for yourself you challenge others to defend for themselves. Any different explanation?


Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:33 pm
I am responding to what Upton posted. Its like two dots........as close together as you can get. The "ideas" that books contain.
Then you should quote Upton’s statement and add what what you think is relevant. That would make more sense than randomly alluding to it.
The immediately following post is not random. Its immediately responsive: aka: just the opposite. I'm sure Upton sees it, and will respond or give honor to his other more valuable pursuits. Plus....I fear I am monopolizing his time...........gadfly that I am. I agree, pulling a quote can be quite helpful....................just checking. I see that I did put words in quote. So, .....................deleted.............you know: keeping everything friendly.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:32 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:01 pm

Why are you posting about Donald Trump in the Holocaust forum???


Because we can.

There is a schism in your value system in that what you understand for yourself you challenge others to defend for themselves. Any different explanation?
No. What I am saying is to make it easier for those who read your comment to quote the relevant parts of Upton’s statement and then addres them in your own words. It would also help if.....you....would stop....putting all...these moronic...dots between your sentences and words.


I am responding to what Upton posted.
Then quote the relevant parts of what Upton said and then give your thoughts on it. That’s what I’m saying to make it easier on those who read what you write.

The immediately following post is not random.
You commented on it a day after he made his statement. I could understand that if you made it right he made his statement but you made it the following day. This is why I say to quote Upton.
I will comment right after someone and not quote them. But any intervening comments cause logic problems so I will sometimes correct and quote so that it makes sense.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:39 pm

Jeff: you have a lot of rules. On another thread outside of the HoloCaustic Zone, Upton and others are discussing the collapse of time and space and the instant creation of reality.

All these forums are but a dream.
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:03 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:39 pm
Jeff: you have a lot of rules.
Not rules but simple ways of making communication easier.
On another thread outside of the HoloCaustic Zone,
You know, that was clever. I like that, HoloCaustic Zone. Maybe I should suggest another name change.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:22 am

Denying-History wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:34 pm


- King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild
This showed up in my Overdrive App, the one that links to my library. I put it on hold but I shoved it way down the road.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:45 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:08 am
Alright, so, just to recap with new books:
The German Army and Genocide: Crimes Against War Prisoners, Jews and other Civilians in the East, 1939-1944
This came in today, it was not what I expected.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:05 am

Is it the book that was published as an accompaniment to the crimes of the Wehrmacht exhibition?
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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:05 am
Is it the book that was published as an accompaniment to the crimes of the Wehrmacht exhibition?
Yes, I realized that when I glanced through it. It looks interesting just not something I’d regularly buy.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Denying-History » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:22 am
Denying-History wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:34 pm


- King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild
This showed up in my Overdrive App, the one that links to my library. I put it on hold but I shoved it way down the road.

I cannot find many errors in it, but that’s probably due to my inexperience on the topic, though one Ik about is on page 238 where he claims the first census was taken in 1924 (it was really done in 1921). And his population figures seem too much. He claims the population declined by approximately half implying a population of around 20 million, which is probably too high.
Last edited by Denying-History on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: General Books/Reading Discussion

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:29 pm

Picked up a copy of “The Bombing of Auschwitz: Should the Allies Have Attempted it?” I also found a used copy of “Ordinary Men” with the new afterword.
“They say..that in Slonim they gathered in the town square 14,000 people...and all were machine-gunned. I ask you, is it possible to believe such a thing?...How can the world remain silent? It is probably not true.”
Calel Perechodnik, Polish Jew, 1942