Embyrology

Creationism, Intelligent Design, and Evolution.
ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:13 pm

Someone said this: "In any case, the NCSE critique is mistaken: Darwin actually embraced Haeckel's original idea that modern embryos resemble the adults of their ancestors. The NCSE critique appeals to the authority of some "prominent Darwin scholars," but Darwin's actual words contradict those scholars:

"With some animals the successive variations may have supervened at a very early period of life, or the steps may have been inherited at an earlier age than that at which they first occurred. In either of these cases, the young or embryo will closely resemble the mature parent-form." (The Origin of Species, 6th edition, p. 393)
"It is highly probable that with many animals the embryonic or larval stages show us, more or less completely, the condition of the progenitor of the whole group in its adult state." (op. cit., p. 395)
"As the embryo often shows us more or less plainly the structure of the less modified and ancient progenitor of the group, we can see why ancient and extinct forms so often resemble in their adult state the embryos of existing species of the same class." (op. cit., p. 396)
"Embryology rises greatly in interest, when we look at the embryo as a picture, more or less obscured, of the progenitor, either in its adult or larval state, of all the members of the same great class." (op. cit., p. 396) [6]"

Explanation please?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4463
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Embyrology

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:33 pm

What explanation do you need?
In early human development, you'd be hard pressed to tell an embryo part from Branchiostoma.

Since all living things have a single origin, our blueprints are necessarily based on one another. Specifically, different animals differ in how many times the blastocycte folds in onto itself (once and you just get a stomach, twice you get a spinal chord, simply put).

ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:34 pm

I mean can these quotes be used to sho that Darwin believed in recapulation.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4463
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Embyrology

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:35 pm

why would that be important?

ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:02 pm

Because it recapulation doesn't happen in nature so if Darwin used it...

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Embyrology

Post by Poodle » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:29 pm

... and so what? Darwin died in 1882. Everything has come on a long way since then. Searching for errors in the thoughts of 19th-century scientists is a pointless exercise. Even if Darwin had said that the Abominable Smowman existed, it wouldn't detract one iota from the work he did.

ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:32 pm

...you know you could say things like"this shows that Darwin didn't support recapulation" and give examples.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 33786
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: Embyrology

Post by Gord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:49 pm

But maybe we don't know the answer. If you do, you could tell us, and show us evidence. 8-)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:28 pm

Why? I am asking you. Is it really that hard to answer?

User avatar
Poodle
True Skeptic
Posts: 10170
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Embyrology

Post by Poodle » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:22 pm

OK.

The anwer is no - you cannot show that Darwin believed in recapitulation. If you read what he says a little more carefully, you will see that Darwin's statements on this subject are couched in 'ifs', 'buts' and 'maybes'. It's a hypothesis he's putting forward, not a claim to absolute certainty.

ryu238
Regular Poster
Posts: 562
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:04 pm

Re: Embyrology

Post by ryu238 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:53 pm