Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

What you think about how you think.
Matthew Ellard
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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:10 am

Yet another debunk of the Inter Mind fairy tale
Matthew Ellard wrote: 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals process terabytes of colour information every second. Under your fantasy belief system, all this raw data is sucked out of the animals physical brains by a mythical non-physical consciousness "thingy" in another dimension. This mythical non-physical consciouness "thingy", in another dimension, then converts this data into colour and then the revised colour data is sent back to 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals in our dimension.

Yet scientists have not observed any information being sucked out of any physical brain. Nor have scientist observed any time gap in physical brains while this information is being processed in another dimension. Nor have scientists observed terabytes of data being sent back into physical brains.

QED the neurons are producing the colour representations themselves.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
SteveKlinko wrote:Scientist don't in fact know how to observe Consciousness yet.
Science does know how to measure the electrons moving through the neurons. What did you think an MRI scan scanned, you complete idiot? ( Magnetic resonance imaging )
Your fairy tale has been debunked yet again.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(This is getting too easy)

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:26 pm
Gord wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:45 pm
Oh my glob, this is ridiculous. You keep posting that you think they are different things! I'm asking you HOW WE CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT! I'm not asking you to DO any experiments, I'm asking HOW CAN WE FIND OUT!

This is not a "negative proof" requirement. At all. Showing a difference is a "positive proof" result.

Now quit belching out BS and suggest a way we can find out if your claims are correct.
But you are ignoring what I said. I said my justification for saying that they are different is because of the lack of any Explanation of How such different Phenomena like Neural Activity and Conscious Activity could be the same thing.
Don't care.
It is a Self Evident reality of the Universe that they are different Categories of Phenomena.
Please demonstrate this "self evident reality".
Saying that they are Different is the only Logical and Coherent starting point.
It's begging the question.
So then, exactly How is it that Neural Activity and Conscious activity are the same thing? It is a Preposterous thing to say in view of the obvious Difference that is Self Evident.
Your claim that they are different is not "self evident". I'm asking you how I can demonstrate to myself that your claim is correct.
You will have to find an Explanation or develop one that recognizes the Difference between the two Phenomena first, and then shows how the synthesis of the two can be Explained.
I would very much like to discover that the two are different, but you have not shown me any way in which I can do so. Claiming it is "self evident" does nothing to demonstrate your claims are true.
It has been recognized before that this Physicalist Oneness of the Neural Activity and the Conscious Activity is similar to the New Age Oneness where they say that there is only Consciousness and there is no real Material Universe.
I understand that you have "recognised" this, but I want to know how I can recognise it.
The Physicalists say you must just Believe what they say.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. I'm also pretty true that's exactly what you yourself are doing.
Watching the Physcialists try to defend the Oneness Claim is humorous and ultimately pathetic. The Physicalists are at the end of their rope and can only sputter out things like "everyone else must prove their Belief to be wrong". If they had any kind of Explanation then we could study that Explanation to see if it was Coherent or incoherent. Instead we get "you must Believe or you are just ignorant of their Truth". Sounds quite a bit like the New Agers.
But that's exactly what you're doing with your claims here!

For glob's sake, stop belching out BS and show your work!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:55 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:10 am
Yet another debunk of the Inter Mind fairy tale
Matthew Ellard wrote: 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals process terabytes of colour information every second. Under your fantasy belief system, all this raw data is sucked out of the animals physical brains by a mythical non-physical consciousness "thingy" in another dimension. This mythical non-physical consciouness "thingy", in another dimension, then converts this data into colour and then the revised colour data is sent back to 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals in our dimension.

Yet scientists have not observed any information being sucked out of any physical brain. Nor have scientist observed any time gap in physical brains while this information is being processed in another dimension. Nor have scientists observed terabytes of data being sent back into physical brains.

QED the neurons are producing the colour representations themselves.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
SteveKlinko wrote:Scientist don't in fact know how to observe Consciousness yet.
Science does know how to measure the electrons moving through the neurons. What did you think an MRI scan scanned, you complete idiot? ( Magnetic resonance imaging )
Your fairy tale has been debunked yet again.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

(This is getting too easy)
Yes Science does know how to Measure Neural Activity. Neural Activity seems to produce Conscious Activity, but Science knows nothing about how Neural Activity produces Conscious Activity.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Gord wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:26 pm
Gord wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:45 pm
Oh my glob, this is ridiculous. You keep posting that you think they are different things! I'm asking you HOW WE CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT! I'm not asking you to DO any experiments, I'm asking HOW CAN WE FIND OUT!

This is not a "negative proof" requirement. At all. Showing a difference is a "positive proof" result.

Now quit belching out BS and suggest a way we can find out if your claims are correct.
But you are ignoring what I said. I said my justification for saying that they are different is because of the lack of any Explanation of How such different Phenomena like Neural Activity and Conscious Activity could be the same thing.
Don't care.
It is a Self Evident reality of the Universe that they are different Categories of Phenomena.
Please demonstrate this "self evident reality".
Saying that they are Different is the only Logical and Coherent starting point.
It's begging the question.
So then, exactly How is it that Neural Activity and Conscious activity are the same thing? It is a Preposterous thing to say in view of the obvious Difference that is Self Evident.
Your claim that they are different is not "self evident". I'm asking you how I can demonstrate to myself that your claim is correct.
You will have to find an Explanation or develop one that recognizes the Difference between the two Phenomena first, and then shows how the synthesis of the two can be Explained.
I would very much like to discover that the two are different, but you have not shown me any way in which I can do so. Claiming it is "self evident" does nothing to demonstrate your claims are true.
It has been recognized before that this Physicalist Oneness of the Neural Activity and the Conscious Activity is similar to the New Age Oneness where they say that there is only Consciousness and there is no real Material Universe.
I understand that you have "recognised" this, but I want to know how I can recognise it.
The Physicalists say you must just Believe what they say.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. I'm also pretty true that's exactly what you yourself are doing.
Watching the Physcialists try to defend the Oneness Claim is humorous and ultimately pathetic. The Physicalists are at the end of their rope and can only sputter out things like "everyone else must prove their Belief to be wrong". If they had any kind of Explanation then we could study that Explanation to see if it was Coherent or incoherent. Instead we get "you must Believe or you are just ignorant of their Truth". Sounds quite a bit like the New Agers.
But that's exactly what you're doing with your claims here!

For glob's sake, stop belching out BS and show your work!
The fact is that Conscious Experience is in a Category of Phenomena that is not to be found in any known Category of Phenomena. I have continuously tried to give justification for this on this forum. The Inter Mind Website is devoted to providing the justification for this. If you have read the website, with the intention of understanding, and have read my justifications on this forum, with the intension of understanding then I guess I have failed to convince you. I'll just have suggest that you are not giving the Phenomenon of Conscious Experience enough importance. Think a little more Deeply about Conscious Experience and eventually you will see the independent Reality of it. When you realize this independent Reality you will also demand that Science do more to Explain it.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:57 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:05 pm
... The fact is that Conscious Experience is in a Category of Phenomena that is not to be found in any known Category of Phenomena ...
That's one hell of a mind boggler, Steve. Are you SURE about that 'fact'?

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Re: Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals process terabytes of colour information every second. Under your fantasy belief system, all this raw data is sucked out of the animals physical brains by a mythical non-physical consciousness "thingy" in another dimension. This mythical non-physical consciouness "thingy", in another dimension, then converts this data into colour and then the revised colour data is sent back to 10,000,000,000,000 colour seeing animals in our dimension.

Yet scientists have not observed any information being sucked out of any physical brain. Nor have scientist observed any time gap in physical brains while this information is being processed in another dimension. Nor have scientists observed terabytes of data being sent back into physical brains.

QED the neurons are producing the colour representations themselves.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
SteveKlinko wrote: Yes Science does know how to Measure Neural Activity. Neural Activity seems to produce Conscious Activity, but Science knows nothing about how Neural Activity produces Conscious Activity.


You are a complete idiot. It is electrons jumping between synapses. You are claiming that a magical non-physical consciosness in another dimension is taking away neuron data, converting into colour data and adding it back to our physical brains in our dimension. Why has no scientist seen these new electrons "pop in"? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:56 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:05 pm
Gord wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 am
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:26 pm
Gord wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:45 pm
Oh my glob, this is ridiculous. You keep posting that you think they are different things! I'm asking you HOW WE CAN DEMONSTRATE THAT! I'm not asking you to DO any experiments, I'm asking HOW CAN WE FIND OUT!

This is not a "negative proof" requirement. At all. Showing a difference is a "positive proof" result.

Now quit belching out BS and suggest a way we can find out if your claims are correct.
But you are ignoring what I said. I said my justification for saying that they are different is because of the lack of any Explanation of How such different Phenomena like Neural Activity and Conscious Activity could be the same thing.
Don't care.
It is a Self Evident reality of the Universe that they are different Categories of Phenomena.
Please demonstrate this "self evident reality".
Saying that they are Different is the only Logical and Coherent starting point.
It's begging the question.
So then, exactly How is it that Neural Activity and Conscious activity are the same thing? It is a Preposterous thing to say in view of the obvious Difference that is Self Evident.
Your claim that they are different is not "self evident". I'm asking you how I can demonstrate to myself that your claim is correct.
You will have to find an Explanation or develop one that recognizes the Difference between the two Phenomena first, and then shows how the synthesis of the two can be Explained.
I would very much like to discover that the two are different, but you have not shown me any way in which I can do so. Claiming it is "self evident" does nothing to demonstrate your claims are true.
It has been recognized before that this Physicalist Oneness of the Neural Activity and the Conscious Activity is similar to the New Age Oneness where they say that there is only Consciousness and there is no real Material Universe.
I understand that you have "recognised" this, but I want to know how I can recognise it.
The Physicalists say you must just Believe what they say.
I'm pretty sure that's not true. I'm also pretty true that's exactly what you yourself are doing.
Watching the Physcialists try to defend the Oneness Claim is humorous and ultimately pathetic. The Physicalists are at the end of their rope and can only sputter out things like "everyone else must prove their Belief to be wrong". If they had any kind of Explanation then we could study that Explanation to see if it was Coherent or incoherent. Instead we get "you must Believe or you are just ignorant of their Truth". Sounds quite a bit like the New Agers.
But that's exactly what you're doing with your claims here!

For glob's sake, stop belching out BS and show your work!
The fact is that Conscious Experience is in a Category of Phenomena that is not to be found in any known Category of Phenomena. I have continuously tried to give justification for this on this forum. The Inter Mind Website is devoted to providing the justification for this. If you have read the website, with the intention of understanding, and have read my justifications on this forum, with the intension of understanding then I guess I have failed to convince you. I'll just have suggest that you are not giving the Phenomenon of Conscious Experience enough importance. Think a little more Deeply about Conscious Experience and eventually you will see the independent Reality of it. When you realize this independent Reality you will also demand that Science do more to Explain it.
So I guess you can't think of any way to demonstrate that the two things are different. Thinking deeply until I just spontaneously convert to your way of thinking is not my cup of tea.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:55 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:57 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:05 pm
... The fact is that Conscious Experience is in a Category of Phenomena that is not to be found in any known Category of Phenomena ...
That's one hell of a mind boggler, Steve. Are you SURE about that 'fact'?
It is a Self Evident Reality of the Universe. What Category of known Phenomena of Science does Conscious experience fall into?

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:03 pm

No, Steve - it wasn't a comment on what you posted. It was a comment on a self-contradictory and totally illogical statement. What you have said is that (Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP). So how would you know? Logic, see?

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:06 pm

Gord wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:56 am
So I guess you can't think of any way to demonstrate that the two things are different. Thinking deeply until I just spontaneously convert to your way of thinking is not my cup of tea.
You are still ignoring what I said. I said my justification for saying that they are different is because of the lack of any Explanation of How such different Phenomena like Neural Activity and Conscious Activity could be the same thing. Lack of any Explanation for how they are the same thing completely Demonstrates that they are not the same thing, at least for now. Maybe someday there will be a good Explanation of this and then my observation will be disproven. It makes no Logical or Coherent sense to start with the assumption that they are the same. It makes more sense to start with the assumption that they are Different, simply because they plainly are so completely different.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:17 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:03 pm
No, Steve - it wasn't a comment on what you posted. It was a comment on a self-contradictory and totally illogical statement. What you have said is that (Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP). So how would you know? Logic, see?
I don't know what you are talking about. Conscious Activity either is, or is not, in any known Category of Scientific Phenomena. Science does not know anything about Consciousness so Science obviously has no Category of Phenomena called the Category of Conscious Activity. It is a failing of Science that there is not even a Category devoted to Conscious Activity. Science has tried to sweep Conscious Activity under the carpet by saying that Conscious Activity IS Neural Activity. So then they can say that Conscious Activity is in the Neural Activity Category of Phenomena. This is clearly a disingenuous and rhetorical cover up of the scandal that Science does not know anything about Conscious Activity.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:43 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:17 pm
Poodle wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:03 pm
No, Steve - it wasn't a comment on what you posted. It was a comment on a self-contradictory and totally illogical statement. What you have said is that (Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP). So how would you know? Logic, see?
I don't know what you are talking about ...
Indeed. And there lies a part of your problem.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:43 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:17 pm
Poodle wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:03 pm
No, Steve - it wasn't a comment on what you posted. It was a comment on a self-contradictory and totally illogical statement. What you have said is that (Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP). So how would you know? Logic, see?
I don't know what you are talking about ...
Indeed. And there lies a part of your problem.
But do you know what you are talking about ...

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:48 am

Well, Steve - who's to say? But then I'm not the one running a thread here which claims certain knowledge of extra-reality stuff, am I? However, '(Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP)' remains a silly thing to say, and you haven't responded to that yet. I assume your attack dog method means that you haven't the foggiest notion why your statement is wrong. Would that be anywhere near the truth?
Last edited by Poodle on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:48 am

SteveKlinko wrote: I don't know what you are talking about. Conscious Activity either is, or is not, in any known Category of Scientific Phenomena.
We have been through this ten times now and you still can't grasp it.

DNA carries all definition of brain physiology and its activities. DNA can only produce protein chains as it is normal physics. Therefore, as you failed to explain any alternative evolutionary method for your magical "non-physical dimension" we can conclude consciousness is a normal physical activity of the physical brain.

QED

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:50 am

SteveKlinko wrote: But do you know what you are talking about ...
That would be you. You still do not know what evolution is or how it works .
Evolution for dummies.jpg
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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:50 pm

Poodle wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:48 am
Well, Steve - who's to say? But then I'm not the one running a thread here which claims certain knowledge of extra-reality stuff, am I? However, '(Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP)' remains a silly thing to say, and you haven't responded to that yet. I assume your attack dog method means that you haven't the foggiest notion why your statement is wrong. Would that be anywhere near the truth?
You cannot argue against the statement itself so you just say it's Silly. That's not an argument, that's a surrender. The fact remains that Conscious Experience is a Category of Phenomena that is not in any other Category of known Scientific Phenomena. Conscious Experience is not understood by Science. Science does not even have the first inkling of How to study Consciousness.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:49 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:50 pm
You cannot argue against the statement itself so you just say it's Silly. That's not an argument, that's a surrender. The fact remains that Conscious Experience is a Category of Phenomena that is not in any other Category of known Scientific Phenomena. Conscious Experience is not understood by Science. Science does not even have the first inkling of How to study Consciousness.
Every sentence above is a negative statement. Negative claims generally can't be proved. So what's your point?
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm

I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:37 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:06 pm
Lack of any Explanation for how they are the same thing completely Demonstrates that they are not the same thing, at least for now.
No it doesn't. For one thing, to make that claim would be to ignore all the evidence linking them. For another thing, failing to demonstrate one thing is true does not demonstrate another thing is true.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:45 am

Here's a video wherein BionicDance gives some of her thoughts on death. (She's had brain surgery this year to treat her epilepsy.) Some of the things she says are similar to some of the things I'm trying to say:



It's only 8 minutes long, so I hope y'all have time to watch it. (I find the opening and closing animations a bit annoying.)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am

Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with. If you are implying that maybe someday that Conscious experience will be found to be in one of the existing Categories then that is what I have also been saying. But as of this point in time Science does not know how to deal with Conscious Experience as a Phenomenon.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by landrew » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:40 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:50 pm
Poodle wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:48 am
Well, Steve - who's to say? But then I'm not the one running a thread here which claims certain knowledge of extra-reality stuff, am I? However, '(Thing A) belongs to (CoP) which cannot be found in (known CoP)' remains a silly thing to say, and you haven't responded to that yet. I assume your attack dog method means that you haven't the foggiest notion why your statement is wrong. Would that be anywhere near the truth?
You cannot argue against the statement itself so you just say it's Silly. That's not an argument, that's a surrender. The fact remains that Conscious Experience is a Category of Phenomena that is not in any other Category of known Scientific Phenomena. Conscious Experience is not understood by Science. Science does not even have the first inkling of How to study Consciousness.
I think at this point, it's safe to say that you're getting no traction on your idea.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with ...
That may well be true, Steve. It's just not what you said. If you are going to insist upon using pseudo-logic to make your claims, make sure you get the logic right. You didn't.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 am

Poodle wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with ...
That may well be true, Steve. It's just not what you said. If you are going to insist upon using pseudo-logic to make your claims, make sure you get the logic right. You didn't.
I'm pretty sure that the science of conscious awareness is a part of the mysterious thing we call "psychology": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... 2699161602

Not positive, though. Just pretty sure.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:47 pm

Poodle wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with ...
That may well be true, Steve. It's just not what you said. If you are going to insist upon using pseudo-logic to make your claims, make sure you get the logic right. You didn't.
There you go again, arguing semantics. Do you think Science has any inkling about what actual Conscious Experience is?

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:50 pm

Gord wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 am
Poodle wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with ...
That may well be true, Steve. It's just not what you said. If you are going to insist upon using pseudo-logic to make your claims, make sure you get the logic right. You didn't.
I'm pretty sure that the science of conscious awareness is a part of the mysterious thing we call "psychology": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... 2699161602

Not positive, though. Just pretty sure.
You are living in a Fantasy Land if you think that Psychology can actually explain what Consciousness is.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:57 pm

Steve ... will you PLEASE read what is posted before responding. That isn't in any way what Gord claimed. He provided an example (an article from the British Journal of Psychology) to show that some psychologists think your statements may not be correct. I'm sure that if you contact that journal and point out the error of their ways they'll be eternally grateful.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 am

SteveKlinko wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:50 pm
Gord wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 am
Poodle wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:27 pm
SteveKlinko wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:54 am
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:57 pm
I'm not arguing against your statement, Steve. I'm pointing out that it is nonsense. Allow me to simplify - you have stated that A belongs to a category which cannot be found in the group of known categories. So tell, me, Einstein - how would you know? The logic is completely invalid. it's the same as "my mother belongs to a group of people who cannot be found in any known group of people". See?
Everyone else on the planet can see that Conscious Experience is not in any Category of Phenomena that Science can deal with ...
That may well be true, Steve. It's just not what you said. If you are going to insist upon using pseudo-logic to make your claims, make sure you get the logic right. You didn't.
I'm pretty sure that the science of conscious awareness is a part of the mysterious thing we call "psychology": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... 2699161602

Not positive, though. Just pretty sure.
You are living in a Fantasy Land if you think that Psychology can actually explain what Consciousness is.
Why? Because you already know?

Pardon me for not believing your claims. You haven't been able to back up a single thing yet. All you do is say that other people -- whose works you haven't even heard of, let alone read -- are wrong.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:35 am

Gord, to Steve Klinko wrote: Pardon me for not believing your claims. You haven't been able to back up a single thing yet. All you do is say that other people -- whose works you haven't even heard of, let alone read -- are wrong.
Steve Klinko is going out of his way not to read any science books that would explain to him, his errors. He wrote his "Inter mind" essay in 2012, six years ago and never checked any of his science claims for six years.

I think he is in shock that skeptics have pointed out so many errors in his claim, in his first attempt to seek public opinion.
:D

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:35 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:57 pm
Steve ... will you PLEASE read what is posted before responding. That isn't in any way what Gord claimed. He provided an example (an article from the British Journal of Psychology) to show that some psychologists think your statements may not be correct. I'm sure that if you contact that journal and point out the error of their ways they'll be eternally grateful.
I always try to read the articles people post, but when I went to this one I got a message that I had to purchase a subscription before I could read the article. I'm not doing that.

Besides Gord said:
I'm pretty sure that the science of conscious awareness is a part of the mysterious thing we call "psychology":

Makes it sound like he is claiming the article will show that Psychology knows what Consciousness is.

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The Ellard Delirium Constinues

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:42 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:35 am
Gord, to Steve Klinko wrote: Pardon me for not believing your claims. You haven't been able to back up a single thing yet. All you do is say that other people -- whose works you haven't even heard of, let alone read -- are wrong.
Steve Klinko is going out of his way not to read any science books that would explain to him, his errors. He wrote his "Inter mind" essay in 2012, six years ago and never checked any of his science claims for six years.

I think he is in shock that skeptics have pointed out so many errors in his claim, in his first attempt to seek public opinion.
:D
You are stuck in a Delirious Loop on this Evolution thing. I say that it is very likely that the Experience of Pain has an influence in Evolutionary Outcomes. You say it does not. If Pain does not have any affect on Evolutionary Outcomes then why would Pain ever Evolve? You have offered no Explanations of how Pain does not affect Evolutionary Outcomes.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:10 pm

You're still not getting this skeptic thing, Steve. If YOU make a claim (which you have several times) then it's up to you to provide the evidence. It is NOT up to anyone else on this forum to provide evidence to the contrary. You have made a lot of claims - or so the language you used makes it appear. I don't think you've ever said "I think this is true ...", preferring "This is so ...". As you have absolutely no evidence for any of your claims, you're being challenged at every turn.
In a nutshell, you have said nothing at all for which you have any evidence. It's all wishful thinking on your part. Your post above this one illustrates this perfectly - you say "I say it is very likely ..." but you provide nothing to support it. That's your OPINION, Steve, not evidence. To cap it all, you then demand explanations from the members of this forum, which is pure hypocrisy. Anyone can write blurb introducing the outlandish as fact - you've heard of Erik von Daniken, I assume.
Naturally, if you have no evidence for your claims, you are certainly in no position to demand it of anyone else.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Cadmusteeth » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:58 pm

The fact that Steve made this thread -Addressing the Physicalist Delirium- is a blatant attempt to smear critics of his claims. This basically says, "if people disagree, there's something wrong with them."
That is hardly a valid argument. In fact, all of his arguments seem to be geared towards selling merchandise and taking advantage of people who don't know any better. With everything that's been going on, I don't see this as unreasonable to assume.

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Re: The Ellard Delirium Constinues

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:39 pm

SteveKlinko wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:42 pm
If Pain does not have any affect on Evolutionary Outcomes then why would Pain ever Evolve? You have offered no Explanations of how Pain does not affect Evolutionary Outcomes.
It simply doesn't. You are asking someone to disprove your assertion, when the burden of proof was on you in the first place. It's your assertion.

If you had been reading, you'd have seen your absurd assertion that "pain directs evolution" refuted nine ways from Sunday.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:43 pm

Sorry - wrong thread :oops:

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Gord » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:30 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:43 pm
Sorry - wrong thread :oops:
Whatever happened to the right thread? I can find the Stalingrad thread and the snarling thread and the paranoia thread and the not allowed thread, but where'd the right thread go?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:37 pm

Gord wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:30 pm
Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:43 pm
Sorry - wrong thread :oops:
Whatever happened to the right thread? I can find the Stalingrad thread and the snarling thread and the paranoia thread and the not allowed thread, but where'd the right thread go?
That's what we ALL want to know!
RELEASE THE RIGHT THREAD!

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Debunk / Inter Mind Religion

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:05 am

SteveKlinko wrote:. If Pain does not have any affect on Evolutionary Outcomes then why would Pain ever Evolve?
That was hilarious and shows your absolute idiocy!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

According to your logic.......

"toe nails must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve toe nails"

"Brown hair must direct and guide evolution otherwise why did we evolve brown hair?"

Can you see how amazingly stupid and ignorant you are concerning evolution? Are you really this stupid all the time?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Addressing the Physicalist Delirium

Post by SteveKlinko » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:02 pm

Poodle wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:10 pm
You're still not getting this skeptic thing, Steve. If YOU make a claim (which you have several times) then it's up to you to provide the evidence. It is NOT up to anyone else on this forum to provide evidence to the contrary. You have made a lot of claims - or so the language you used makes it appear. I don't think you've ever said "I think this is true ...", preferring "This is so ...". As you have absolutely no evidence for any of your claims, you're being challenged at every turn.
In a nutshell, you have said nothing at all for which you have any evidence. It's all wishful thinking on your part. Your post above this one illustrates this perfectly - you say "I say it is very likely ..." but you provide nothing to support it. That's your OPINION, Steve, not evidence. To cap it all, you then demand explanations from the members of this forum, which is pure hypocrisy. Anyone can write blurb introducing the outlandish as fact - you've heard of Erik von Daniken, I assume.
Naturally, if you have no evidence for your claims, you are certainly in no position to demand it of anyone else.
I gave a Logical chain of reasoning that you have not understood or have just ignored.