Is the pope Catholic?

[David Ben-Ariel]

Why all the fuss about the Bavarian Pope stating his beliefs? At least he is telling the plain truth about official Roman Catholic teaching -- even if he's in grave error and spewing religious lies, according to the Bible. Those drunk on the ecumenical spirits, who are in a state of shock or confusion, staggering over his statements, expose they've either been misled by the Vatican or in a stupored state of denial, having fooled themselves that reconciliation between the...

Is the pope Catholic?

[Aztexan]

Don't you mean does he {!#%@} in the woods? :P

[snooziums]

*sigh* David, you say that the Catholic Church is not the "true church of God," and you say that the Protestant denominations are also not the "true church of God."

So again, I ask you, in your opinion, what "true church" existed in 1600 or 1700?

[Chachacha]

I don't care what the Pope says, but I got a good laugh at his bitch-slapping all the spin-offs that are always dissing the Catholic Church like a bunch of ungrateful kids. :lol:

[Articulett]

I don't care what the Pope says, but I got a good laugh at his bitch-slapping all the spin-offs that are always dissing the Catholic Church like a bunch of ungrateful kids. :lol:

My woo is the true woo--no mine is! We're the real Christians. No we are. We're the saved ones. Nope, you're damned. If the christians would just get their story straight it would give the whole thing a bit more credibility, don't you think. It's not very god like to create such ambiguity and in-fighting, is it? I think their savior is slacking big time.

[Chachacha]

I don't care what the Pope says, but I got a good laugh at his bitch-slapping all the spin-offs that are always dissing the Catholic Church like a bunch of ungrateful kids. :lol:

My woo is the true woo--no mine is! We're the real Christians. No we are. We're the saved ones. Nope, you're damned. If the christians would just get their story straight it would give the whole thing a bit more credibility, don't you think. It's not very god like to create such ambiguity and in-fighting, is it? I think their savior is slacking big time.

Oh ye of no faith, this is his PLAN. And we mere mortals can't understand why he wants a bunch of bickering groups laying claim to his dead son. Maybe it makes him proud, you know like when a lot of girls are after your son??? I have no idea. I'm only guessing.

[Major Malfunction]

Toddlers fighting over their action figures.

[Mathew Scott Fitsgarrett]

Is this thread some sort of advertisement or something?

[Major Malfunction]

No. It's an infomercial...

For the one-and-only, patent-pending, Jesus Action Figure! For the low price of Reason! (plus 10% tithe)

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[brooklyn44]

Chacha.
I have tried to understand what your analogy means. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't get it.
cheers
b44

[Jay Hoover]

Don't you mean does he {!#%@} in the woods? :P

Laugh
Out
Loud

[Jay Hoover]

Chacha.
I have tried to understand what your analogy means. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I don't get it.
cheers
b44

If I may use your post to springboard a biblical answer? I don't mean to speak for Cha3 but venture a reply of my own:

Certain Christians believe, based on Scripture, that God purposely obscures the truth from those who don't believe in Christianity. Here's the relevant quotes:

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (Corinthians 1:19-31)

Why would God do this? Isn't this at odds with his oft-cited "love" for humanity, and his desire to save all souls? Yet here we discover he is purposely deceiving people by not letting them understand with wisdom (as the twue believers have.)

Of course, look what such thinking has wrought:

Various sects interpret differently, and thus are at odds with one another.

The first problem with this is it immediately sets up believers with the belief that they are superior because they believe rightly, and others believe wrongly. "God has given us the wisdom, not you!" It doesn't take much to see David Ben-Ariel suffers from this amazing level of arrogance, pride, and utter self-righteousness, but then, most Christians suffer from it, even moderates, because that is the nature of this mental, emotional, psychological and social virus. without any need to support its claims, it makes for utter confidence in the "truth" of its assertions, and no one need lift a finger to support the belief (indeed, attempting to prove the claims is in and of itself, a deadly sin. One must believe, simply because).

Second, when one group believes it has the superior belief when it comes to eternal bliss and/or damnation, all sorts of behavior swiftly becomes justifiable. What is it to torture and burn and murder some people who are destined for Hell and eternal torture anyway? What is it to baptize people -- adults, children and even babies alike, and smash their heads against rocks sending them to heaven? What is it to make war on nonbelievers and force them to believe, or kill them, or do both? After all, God has chosen us, not you!

This, then, has been the history of the world and religion thanks to these three Abrahamic sects, each of which makes the same claim to a "superior wisdom" (all of which have a delusional perspective of reality).

But note, that whatever argument you mount against such beliefs, the mechanism of the virus, and what makes it so damnably successful, is that God is diametrically opposite to what you see and experience in your life. What is death to God? It's eternal life. What is physicality on Earth? It's the obscuring of the real reality, i.e., spiritual. What is wisdom of the world? Foolishness to God. Everything is opposite of what it is. What is rationality, where existence follows laws? Irrationality, where the dead rise, and mules speak, and men walk upon water. What is reason? Reason is obliteration, and only faith abides.

But this should lead anyone with a speck of self respect to ask themselves, "What am I doing worshiping a being who is PURPOSELY DECEIVING US?" The leap to this salient question is hardly ever made. Frankly, I don't see what the Christian is bargaining for, particularly the fundamentalist. After all, all the evidence leads us to believe that Yahweh is deceitful, so why should they expect his promise of heaven to hold any water? Why isn't he just as deceiving when it comes to that part of his "plan"?

We see a universe where the stars are far away, and massive amounts of evidence that the earth is billions of years old, but the Bible says differently, so that means god is deceptively placing "clues" to misdirect us (you'll find this argument on a few creationist website. Not ID websites though -- they skirt the issue). The bible itself admits that god is deceptive. And think a moment about the Old Testament, and we know he's cruel, and capricious, and even willing to murder everyone, using pleasant things like drowning all in a massive flood (when did Satan ever kill so many people? Never?)

So why buy into the "Jesus Saves" routine? Isn't he just as likely to be deceiving you there as well? Or is he suddenly truthful when it comes to this specialized redemption?

Guys like David bank on the idea that the god whom they know is deceptive, isn't deceiving them. And so they create their "new interpretation", because frankly, anyone can do just that and lay equal claim to the idea that you aren't being given the true vision, only we have the true vision. And when someone like me comes along and shows them the inherent flaws in their (lack of) thinking, they fall back on the magical loophole that I'm the one in darkness, because god says he gives the real wisdom to whomever he chooses. This is a spiraling argument that collapses upon itself because if the premise is true, then you can never really argue that what you know is true, because you could be deceived as well.

David and his cult insist they know the twue bible, and everyone else before them was wrong. (But atheists are arrogant! :lol: )

So we come around to why would god do this? Well, either he's evil, or crazy, or sadistic, because his plan is to have us slay one another and endlessly bicker over Jesus like boys fighting over a girl at the sock hop (Cha's analogy). Or he's all three, or, he's an inherently flawed human mythology and it's all imagery and shouldn't be taken as real at all.

I opt for that last one, because I'm not about to worship a being who a) shows no sign of existing, and b) if he does exist, he's indistinguishable from a devil.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Certain Christians believe, based on Scripture, that God purposely obscures the truth from those who don't believe in Christianity. Here's the relevant quotes:

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. (Corinthians 1:19-31)

Nowhere does that Scripture say God purposely obscures the truth from those who have no faith. The Bible teaches that the proof of God is everywhere and that those who reject it are in denial.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Although I'm sure I have some disagreements with Mr. Jack Chick, as he is a Protestant and Protestantsare still part of the Babylonian Mystery religion, a la carte Catholics to me, at least we are in agreement about the documented atrocities and outrageous errors and whitewashed paganism the Roman Catholic Cult have used to misled the masses. We both do what we can to help expose such Roman wolves in sheep's clothing that folks can be set free by the truth.

History of the Papacy

Hislop's Two Babylons - zipped

[David Ben-Ariel]

David and his cult insist they know the twue bible, and everyone else before them was wrong.

The true Church of God continues to keep the same biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws that Yeshua, the apostles and the early Church of God (both converted Jews, Israelites and Gentiles) faithfully observed against growing demonic opposition (now known as the RCC - the Babylonian Mystery religion grown great).

The true Church of God, representatives and keepers of the faith once delivered, not having been corrupted by the pagan Roman traditions of men, trust Yeshua will return soon and teach and enforce our God-given pioneer ways over the entire world, based upon THE BIBLE - not baptized paganism pretending to be Christian!

Born Again and Heaven and Hell

The Plain Truth about Herbert W. Armstrong & the Worldwide Church of God

[David Ben-Ariel]

Don't you mean does he {!#%@} in the woods? :P

Wasn't that the Bavarian bear that was on the loose and made international news?

[HghrSymmetry]

Edit: Removed double post.

[HghrSymmetry]

DBA,
Looks like you've been following the wrong paganized Jewish desert religion after all. Not to worry though, a pagan religion is a pagan religion.

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy (AP) -- Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.
.......
The commentary repeated church teaching that says the Catholic Church "has the fullness of the means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," said the document released as the pope vacations at a villa in Lorenzago di Cadore, in Italy's Dolomite mountains.

The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession - the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles - and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/ ... TE=DEFAULT

[Ion]

David and his cult insist they know the twue bible, and everyone else before them was wrong.

The true Church of God continues to keep the same biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws that Yeshua, the apostles and the early Church of God (both converted Jews, Israelites and Gentiles) faithfully observed against growing demonic opposition (now known as the RCC - the Babylonian Mystery religion grown great).

Sounds like Jews For Jesus on steroids...
:roll:

[Jay Hoover]

David and his cult insist they know the twue bible, and everyone else before them was wrong.

The true Church of God continues to keep the same biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws that Yeshua, the apostles and the early Church of God (both converted Jews, Israelites and Gentiles) faithfully observed against growing demonic opposition (now known as the RCC - the Babylonian Mystery religion grown great).

David, why is your god so obsessed with such inconsequential issues? "Special days"? Diet? Why would he care? Doesn't he have anything more important to do? Anything at all?

It's just such a pathetic little god you worship. Creates existence and then creates characters who rebel agianst him, and then gets all upset about it when he's the sole author in any event. Then he actually cares whether or not we recognize him, even though he's made it impossible to know anything for sure.

Ah, well, why argue with you? you seem to have about the same level of things to do as does your god... i.e., obssess over inconsequentials.

[Chachacha]

One believer dissing the beliefs of another believer is mind-numbingly inane. The argument always ends up to be who is the "true" whatever, or who knows the "truth" or who has the "higher truth" or the "truer truth", causing the "My dog's better than your dog" ditty to play in my head.

[Jay Hoover]

One believer dissing the beliefs of another believer is mind-numbingly inane. The argument always ends up to be who is the "true" whatever, or who knows the "truth" or who has the "higher truth" or the "truer truth", causing the "My dog's better than your dog" ditty to play in my head.

The ditty I've been hearing goes like this:

"My baloney has a first name, it's J-E-S-U-S

My baloney has a second name it's C-H-R-I-S..."

[Chachacha]

One believer dissing the beliefs of another believer is mind-numbingly inane. The argument always ends up to be who is the "true" whatever, or who knows the "truth" or who has the "higher truth" or the "truer truth", causing the "My dog's better than your dog" ditty to play in my head.

The ditty I've been hearing goes like this:

"My baloney has a first name, it's J-E-S-U-S

My baloney has a second name it's C-H-R-I-S..."

Well, actually, mine is "My god's better than your god, my god's better than yours! My god's better because ... um .....er .... because I said he is! My god's better than yours!"

And, oh great, now I'll have Dueling Ditties in my head! :roll: Thank you very not, Jay!!! :P :D

[Articulett]

would it be too much a digression to comment that when a song is stuck in one's head, in Australia, it's referred to as an "ear worm".

One day we'll all share the same idioms thanks to the powers of the web.

[HghrSymmetry]

would it be too much a digression to comment that when a song is stuck in one's head, in Australia, it's referred to as an "ear worm".

One day we'll all share the same idioms thanks to the powers of the web.

Hmm, I wonder if that's related to Earwig bugs.

[snooziums]

...as he is a Protestant and Protestants are still part of the Babylonian Mystery religion, a la carte Catholics to me...

So yet again, I ask you, in your opinion, what "true church" existed in 1600 or 1700?

(And you cannot say the WCG since it did not exist then, it is too new to be considered relevant to anything).

[Aztexan]

Don't you mean does he {!#%@} in the woods? :P

Wasn't that the Bavarian bear that was on the loose and made international news?

What does killing a fellow inhabitant of the earth have to do with the catholic church, David? Oh, sorry, never mind.

I see that we can reach common ground; a dislike of the catholic church. But for wildly different reasons.

I have an aunt who receives her mail at her church and she asked me to help her move some furniture into the offices and elsewhere about five years ago. Surprisingly, my skin didn't start melting and smoking when I entered the building :wink: . At one point, not knowing she was within earshot, I referred to the altar as the gay bar. :wink: :wink: ( I knew you'd appreciate that one). She looked at me as if my skin had started melting and smoking.

I hatism the catholic church because of how they raped those children and then covered it up. Before that, I just disagreed with it and lived with it. But don't get me wrong, in my opinion, yours is just as out-dated and based on mythologically, lying, false BS. :D

[Anchor of Life]

The first problem with this is it immediately sets up believers with the belief that they are superior because they believe rightly, and others believe wrongly.

The entire purpose Paul wrote this particular letter to the Corinthians was to correct this problem and bring unity to this young Church. Paul founded the Church at Corinth, so obviously he had some investment in teaching them the Word of God and making sure the Faith was planted correctly. During the years that Paul was at Ephesus he received news that some of the Corinthians were drifting back into their former vices. The accounts which he received caused him great anxiety. Abuses, bickerings, and party strife had grown up amongst them. The Greeks were an intellectual culture and most were educated. They thought THIS was true wisdom. The Greeks dearly loved to belong to some particular school of philosophy. Paul was not the only preacher of the Gospel to have contact with the Corinthians. The people of Corinth heard Peter preach, Cephas "the Prince of the Apostles", and an Alexandrian preacher named Apollo [Apollos]. The Corinthians began to make invidious comparisons between the preachers. The admirers of Apollo laid claim to a deeper perception of wisdom and boasted that they belonged to the Christian school of that preacher. The majority, on the other hand, prided themselves on their intimate connection with their Apostle. The ones that heard Peter preach regarded the others as their spiritual inferiors. It was not zeal for the honour of their teachers that really prompted either of these parties, but a spirit of pride which made them seek to put themselves above their fellows, and prevented them from humbly thanking God for the grace of being Christians. There were hot disputes and many breaches of fraternal charity. Each group or party boasted that they were above the others and implied that the others were not Christians in the genuine and perfect sense of the word. So, Paul wrote these letters and frequently visited the people of Corinth to put things in order and to bring unity to the party strife. This is evident if you continue to read the entire first chapter of this Epistle. "As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD." (1 Corinthians 1:29-31)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04364a.htm

[Paul Anthony]

The entire purpose Paul wrote this particular letter to the Corinthians was to correct this problem and bring unity to this young Church. Paul founded the Church at Corinth, so obviously he had some investment in teaching them the Word of God and making sure the Faith was planted correctly.

You are correct. Paul founded the Church, based on his interpretation. Actually, Paul was probably responsible for much of the disinformation that eventually became known as Christianity.

Paul was not the only preacher of the Gospel to have contact with the Corinthians. The people of Corinth heard Peter preach, Cephas "the Prince of the Apostles", and an Alexandrian preacher named Apollo [Apollos]. The Corinthians began to make invidious comparisons between the preachers. The admirers of Apollo laid claim to a deeper perception of wisdom and boasted that they belonged to the Christian school of that preacher. The majority, on the other hand, prided themselves on their intimate connection with their Apostle. The ones that heard Peter preach regarded the others as their spiritual inferiors.....Each group or party boasted that they were above the others and implied that the others were not Christians in the genuine and perfect sense of the word.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. :wink:

[David Ben-Ariel]

...as he is a Protestant and Protestants are still part of the Babylonian Mystery religion, a la carte Catholics to me...

So yet again, I ask you, in your opinion, what "true church" existed in 1600 or 1700?

(And you cannot say the WCG since it did not exist then, it is too new to be considered relevant to anything).

The Sabbath-keeping Church of God has continued from the biblical festival of Shavuot/Pentecost in Jerusalem when we were founded until today, known by various names throughout history, leading up to the Church of God, Seventh Day, then Radio Church of God, Worldwide Church of God, and now United Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, etc. Always the Church of God and keeping the same biblical Sabbath and rejecting papal bull.

[David Ben-Ariel]

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY

Yes, Satan, knowing the prophecies of the Son of God's birth, death and resurrection, created many counterfeits for folks like you to get all confused about and fail to recognize you're falling for his scheme. Christians see through the scam and praise God for Yeshua - the real Thing.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Can Catholics and Protestants Walk Together?

Jack Chick versus Catholicism

"We must warn with judicious boldness those who are inclined towards the errors of Rome; we must instruct the young in gospel truth, and tell them of the black doings of Popery in the olden times. We must aid in spreading the light more thoroughly through the land, for priests, like owls, hate daylight. Are we doing all we can for Jesus and the gospel? If not, our negligence plays into the hands of priestcraft. What are we doing to spread the Bible, which is the Pope's bane and poison? Are we casting abroad good, sound gospel writings?"

Read what Charles Spurgeon said about Roman Catholicism

And therefore we abhor and detest all contrary religion and doctrine; but chiefly all kind of Papistry in general and particular heads, even as they are now damned and confuted by the word of God and Kirk of Scotland. But, in special, we detest and refuse the usurped authority of that Roman Antichrist upon the scriptures of God

-The National Covenant. [Scotland]

[izittrue]

Don't you mean does he {!#%@} in the woods? :P

he may {!#%@} in the woods but he doesnt lie:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/?GT1=10150

[David Ben-Ariel]

David and his cult insist they know the twue bible, and everyone else before them was wrong.

The true Church of God continues to keep the same biblical Sabbath, biblical festivals and biblical dietary laws that Yeshua, the apostles and the early Church of God (both converted Jews, Israelites and Gentiles) faithfully observed against growing demonic opposition (now known as the RCC - the Babylonian Mystery religion grown great).

David, why is your god so obsessed with such inconsequential issues? "Special days"? Diet? Why would he care?

A juvenile delinquent just doesn't understand his parent's concern, rules and regulations and tough love, as necessary.

The biblical festivals all contain great purpose and meaning, revealing various aspects of God's Plan of Salvation, His Grand Design for mankind - God is reproducing Himself! Mankind is to be born again after the Godkind at the resurrection/transformation/change.

[David Ben-Ariel]

Actually, Paul was probably responsible for much of the disinformation that eventually became known as Christianity.

More vile disinformation about Paul, a mantra some mindlessly repeat.

Bible believers know and understand and agree that Paul was specially trained and prepared for his mission from God by the resurrected Jesus Christ. Paul was an apostle - sent forth like an ambassador for Christ - with divine authority to proclaim the good news of the Kingdom of God and reveal its king, Yeshua.

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul

[xouper]

Sheik Palazzi and the Apostle Paul

Are you the author of Beyond Babylon or just someone with the same name?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/1413750575/

[sciwoman]

The first problem with this is it immediately sets up believers with the belief that they are superior because they believe rightly, and others believe wrongly.

The entire purpose Paul wrote this particular letter to the Corinthians was to correct this problem and bring unity to this young Church. Paul founded the Church at Corinth, so obviously he had some investment in teaching them the Word of God and making sure the Faith was planted correctly. During the years that Paul was at Ephesus he received news that some of the Corinthians were drifting back into their former vices. The accounts which he received caused him great anxiety. Abuses, bickerings, and party strife had grown up amongst them. The Greeks were an intellectual culture and most were educated. They thought THIS was true wisdom. The Greeks dearly loved to belong to some particular school of philosophy. Paul was not the only preacher of the Gospel to have contact with the Corinthians. The people of Corinth heard Peter preach, Cephas "the Prince of the Apostles", and an Alexandrian preacher named Apollo [Apollos]. The Corinthians began to make invidious comparisons between the preachers. The admirers of Apollo laid claim to a deeper perception of wisdom and boasted that they belonged to the Christian school of that preacher. The majority, on the other hand, prided themselves on their intimate connection with their Apostle. The ones that heard Peter preach regarded the others as their spiritual inferiors. It was not zeal for the honour of their teachers that really prompted either of these parties, but a spirit of pride which made them seek to put themselves above their fellows, and prevented them from humbly thanking God for the grace of being Christians. There were hot disputes and many breaches of fraternal charity. Each group or party boasted that they were above the others and implied that the others were not Christians in the genuine and perfect sense of the word. So, Paul wrote these letters and frequently visited the people of Corinth to put things in order and to bring unity to the party strife. This is evident if you continue to read the entire first chapter of this Epistle. "As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD." (1 Corinthians 1:29-31)

So how is this any different from today. Ask a church about the church across the street and they will tell you that "those aren't really christians" or "they don't have the whole truth." Every demonination thinks they have the corner on the truth and that the others, at best, are "ill-informed."

You yourself, AOL, have shown a remarkable propensity to C & P from the websites of pastors and theologians who agree with you. Have you studied any theological viewpoint other than your own? Have you looked at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or read the ,Dhammapada, or any of the Koran, or the Tao Te Ching? There is a vast world of religious thought out there and very, very little of it agrees with yours.

Oh, by the way, I've read the above except for the Koran, that is my next project.

[HghrSymmetry]

And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.

JUSTIN MARTYR -- THE FIRST APOLOGY

Yes, Satan, knowing the prophecies of the Son of God's birth, death and resurrection, created many counterfeits for folks like you to get all confused about and fail to recognize you're falling for his scheme. Christians see through the scam and praise God for Yeshua - the real Thing.

That's the stock canned answer the apologists have used for two millennia. The "pagan" dieing and rising god motif was ancient before Junior was even born.
This wasn't some obscure mystery, this was common. That these death/rebirth myths influenced the people writing about an obscure Jewish preacher should come as no surprise.
Selecting one out of many earlier versions is simply a case of special pleading.

From the wall of a Mithraic temple in Rome:

"And thou hast saved us by shedding the eternal blood."

New religions were influenced and built from earlier versions before them. Of course, many of the ancients believed in the literal interpretation of the myths, but many also understood these myths as metaphorical, hence the similarities.
Life was brutal, hard and short. Birth, salvation, resurrection, baptism, etc, echoed the cycle of nature and the seasons.
Taking allegorical tales and interpreting them as literal fact is simply a distortion and misunderstanding.

[Anchor of Life]

The first problem with this is it immediately sets up believers with the belief that they are superior because they believe rightly, and others believe wrongly.

The entire purpose Paul wrote this particular letter to the Corinthians was to correct this problem and bring unity to this young Church. Paul founded the Church at Corinth, so obviously he had some investment in teaching them the Word of God and making sure the Faith was planted correctly. During the years that Paul was at Ephesus he received news that some of the Corinthians were drifting back into their former vices. The accounts which he received caused him great anxiety. Abuses, bickerings, and party strife had grown up amongst them. The Greeks were an intellectual culture and most were educated. They thought THIS was true wisdom. The Greeks dearly loved to belong to some particular school of philosophy. Paul was not the only preacher of the Gospel to have contact with the Corinthians. The people of Corinth heard Peter preach, Cephas "the Prince of the Apostles", and an Alexandrian preacher named Apollo [Apollos]. The Corinthians began to make invidious comparisons between the preachers. The admirers of Apollo laid claim to a deeper perception of wisdom and boasted that they belonged to the Christian school of that preacher. The majority, on the other hand, prided themselves on their intimate connection with their Apostle. The ones that heard Peter preach regarded the others as their spiritual inferiors. It was not zeal for the honour of their teachers that really prompted either of these parties, but a spirit of pride which made them seek to put themselves above their fellows, and prevented them from humbly thanking God for the grace of being Christians. There were hot disputes and many breaches of fraternal charity. Each group or party boasted that they were above the others and implied that the others were not Christians in the genuine and perfect sense of the word. So, Paul wrote these letters and frequently visited the people of Corinth to put things in order and to bring unity to the party strife. This is evident if you continue to read the entire first chapter of this Epistle. "As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God. God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; he made us pure and holy, and he freed us from sin. Therefore, as the Scriptures say, "If you want to boast, boast only about the LORD." (1 Corinthians 1:29-31)

So how is this any different from today. Ask a church about the church across the street and they will tell you that "those aren't really christians" or "they don't have the whole truth." Every demonination thinks they have the corner on the truth and that the others, at best, are "ill-informed."

You yourself, AOL, have shown a remarkable propensity to C & P from the websites of pastors and theologians who agree with you. Have you studied any theological viewpoint other than your own? Have you looked at the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or read the ,Dhammapada, or any of the Koran, or the Tao Te Ching? There is a vast world of religious thought out there and very, very little of it agrees with yours.

Oh, by the way, I've read the above except for the Koran, that is my next project.

Christianity is a supernatural religion and the only absolute one. Christianity is independent of all other religious systems. The Divine founder meant Christianity to be a universal religion, a perfect religion, a visibly organized religion. All other great religious teachers subordinated themselves to their message. They pointed away from themselves to their teachings. For instance, Buddha said, “Look not to me, look to my dharma (doctrine, teaching)". Moses and Muhammad claimed only to
be prophets of God; Jesus claimed to be God. Any other religion could survive the loss of its founder. If Muhammad or Buddha or Abraham or Confucius were proved to be mythical and not historical figures, the religions that stem from them might still survive. But Christianity could never survive without Christ. For other religious founders only claimed to teach the truth; Christ claimed to be the Truth.
Christianity is intended for the whole world. Christianity is a perfect religion. We should expect that a religious system which was revealed and instituted, not by a prophet or even an angel, but by the personal action of God Himself, and was designed to supplant an imperfect and provisional form of religion, would lack nothing of possible perfection in end or means. Christ's own teaching satisfied this expectation, and precludes the notion entertained by some early heretics, and still alive in the minds of men, of a fuller and more perfect revelation to come. So, Jesus, being God, had all the knowledge and all the power requisite to establish a perfect religion. He promised His Apostles the abiding presence of the Spirit of Truth, who should teach them all truth.
Christianity offers to all, who are sincere in seeking, the solution of all the world's problems. The problem is not all obey the Gospel. The Jews rejected Christ in spite of the evidence of prophecy and miracle; the world rejects the Church of Christ and persecutes believers. It only makes evident how real is human liberty and how grave human responsibility. Christianity is furnished with all the necessary evidence to create conviction of its truth.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03712a.htm
http://www.kofc.org/rc/en/publications/ ... CIS105.pdf

[Jay Hoover]

A juvenile delinquent just doesn't understand his parent's concern, rules and regulations and tough love, as necessary.

You simply don't get the irony of this comment, do you?

A "juvenile delinquent" applies to everybody who doesn't believe as you do, right?

Everyone in the Catholic church is wrong, David -- right? But you're not wrong, are you? You have the twue woo, don't you? And everyone else says the same of you -- that you're wrong, and they have the "twue woo".

Meanwhile, again,you are trusting in a god who purposely allowed humans to be deceived. What were Adam and Eve tested on? the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. What were they denied to have? The FRUIT OF THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

This is purposeful deception. This is defined in this manner:

"I will keep from you the information you need to make a certain decision. Then I will allow events to force you into making a decision based specifically on the information I am denying you to have. If you guess wrong, I will curse you, forever."

This is what the god of the Old Testament did. This is what you worship, and this is what you rely on. Deceit and mendacity.

Then you come here and tell those of us who have dismissed this all as the clunky fairy tale that it is, that you have the "right answer", and among those reasons you count as to why you have the "right answer" is to paint a god that cares if our penises or buttocks show, on how we treat our slaves he so highly endorses and recommends, that we bow in the right way at the correct time, and that we don't eat certain foods.

Step outside of yourself for a second, and stand in the shoes of someone who has never heard this message. Have you any idea how ridiculous this sounds? and that it's an embarrassment coming from what is ostensibly a grown adult? And that it's terrifying that this adult, who has impact on the world around him, champions its death and destruction?

Why aren't you to be charged with being an accomplice to genocide, if not specicide? Who are you to work towards the slaughter of me and my loved ones? What gives you the right to activism towards destruction?

You present such a huge problem. What to do with you and those like you? You wish us our deaths, and you work towards it. By doing so, you are a murderer by choice, and we can't murder you in defense because we value life-- even when it's gone so darkly wrong. We can't imprison you or take away from you your right to believe insanity-- like it or not, you are free to embrace a deeply destructive and insane worldview, which you happily seem to do with little or no reservations. If you are these things I see you champion, then you are the personification of evil. You are death, you are plague, you are utter sheer hopelessness, you are a blight on humanity and the living embodiment of dark, intransigent pestilence.

All we can do is try to break through this infection that rots deep in your bones and try to convince you to see the worth of humanity. People who you'd be happy to see die in order to make your fairy tale come true, appeal to you with reason instead of treat you as you hope to see them treated. Is there no value to humanity that you can see? Is your only hopefulness in life that of death? I call upon you as a fellow human being to free yourself from this disease and stop being the engine that continues to make us less than we can be.

What if you're wrong, David? Are you willing to let the world be a consumed cinder without a savior coming from beyond to save us? Are you that much of a gambler that you'd roll the dice and cheerlead for the destruction of all that is known to man? Isn't it even slightly possible you may be wrong, and that it's a myth you've banked your estate upon?

Your worldview only embraces mankind's fall. You are a man as well. Let go of this loathing for yourself and your own kind, and try actively working towards making things better and brighter. We all die, David. We all lose everything we treasure. It all goes away and becomes silent. Given our short span in existence, why would you actively wish harm on anyone? We all deserve to live lives free of oppression and suffering, as much as is humanly possible. Create justice here. Create balance here. Focus on life, and if you do that, then what have you got to fear? you will either face nothingness -- in which case there is nothing you can do to change it - or you will face a god that must value your efforts rather than your beliefs; and if not -- if it is true that the god of the bible is really the god we'll meet, then we are doomed to be slaves anyway -- either tormented in eternity and a slave to beg forgiveness, or slaves to endless worship.

Either of those ways, if the bible be true, for mankind, is hell.