Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Where no two people are likely to agree.
User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3110
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm
Custom Title: Yes that one.
Location: Chicago

Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:30 pm

Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories
NY Post
I was born into a nation of conspiracy-mongers. For all their many admirable qualities, Iranians have a penchant for explaining the world through conspiracy theories, a talent for discovering a hidden hand — usually a Jewish or American one — behind every national setback and personal mishap.

Now I’m afraid that the West has succumbed to the same fever.

Only in the West these days, the hidden hand is usually a Russian one. And unlike in the Muslim world, where it’s typically the man on the street who suspects elites of serving nefarious foreigners, in the West, it’s the reverse: Many elites imagine that the common people, vast swaths of their own populations, are Kremlin agents.

...
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27010
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:40 pm

Everyone on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube... you name it - is a Kremlin agent. :roll:



(Except this guy.)
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4916
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: The Baby-eating Bishop

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:00 pm

Conspiracy Theories are the result of a dissonance between what you see is happening and what you think should be happening, given your level of information.
Because we are able to get ever more information about what is happening, but because of the rise in complexity understand less and less why it is happening, it is no wonder that CTs are on the rise, especially among people who think they know enough to understand exactly what is going on - but don't.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:17 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:30 pm
...Only in the West these days, the hidden hand is usually a Russian one. And unlike in the Muslim world, where it’s typically the man on the street who suspects elites of serving nefarious foreigners, in the West, it’s the reverse: Many elites imagine that the common people, vast swaths of their own populations, are Kremlin agents.

...
These days?? Dafuq?? Did this guy not live during any of the 20th century???
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by gorgeous » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:01 pm

Crazy Conspiracy Theories That Turned Out to Be True | Reader's Digest


https://www.rd.com/culture/conspiracy-t ... o-be-true/



Sep 18, 2017 - They say the truth is stranger than fiction. That's no lie: All of these so-called "crazy conspiracy theories" turned out to be legit.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by gorgeous » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:03 pm

7 government conspiracy theories that are true - Big Think


https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/7-cons ... ually-true


Apr 26, 2018 - Are conspiracy theories ever true? Here are a few occasions when the government really did what the conspiracy theories claimed.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5493
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Austin Harper » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:06 pm

Gord wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:17 am
These days?? Dafuq?? Did this guy not live during any of the 20th century???
It's a weird thought, but I do know lots of people who did not live during any of the 20th century.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by gorgeous » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:11 pm

^^^^^^Conspiracy: The Dalai Lama is a CIA agent.

The truth: Perhaps the reason the Dalai Lama is smiling in all those photos has something to do with the six-figure salary he pulled down from the U.S. government during the 1960s. According to declassified intelligence documents, he earned $180,000 in connection with the CIA’s funding of the Tibetan Resistance to the tune of $1.7 million per year. The idea was to disrupt and hamper China’s infrastructure. ------------wiki---The approval and subsequent endorsement of the program was carried out by the Special Group of the United States National Security Council. The program consisted of several clandestine operations with the following code names:
ST CIRCUS—Cover name for the training of Tibetan guerillas in the island of Saipan, and at Camp Hale in Colorado[8][9][10]
ST BARNUM—Cover name for the airlifting of CIA agents, military supplies, and support equipment into Tibet.[11][12]
ST BAILEY—Cover name for a classified propaganda campaign[ ------In 1959, the CIA opened a secret facility to train Tibetan recruits at Camp Hale near Leadville, Colorado
Last edited by gorgeous on Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
gorgeous
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5351
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by gorgeous » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:44 pm

soo...we're agreed there are actual conspiracies...right? who knew the Lama was so greedy?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:46 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:06 pm
Gord wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:17 am
These days?? Dafuq?? Did this guy not live during any of the 20th century???
It's a weird thought, but I do know lots of people who did not live during any of the 20th century.
Impossible! Surely such people would still be in diapers, drooling their bottles across the carpet as they trundle awkwardly about on all fours!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:49 pm

I know people who did not live during any of the 19th Century.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:45 am

One thing I know is that gorgeous is a sucker for conspiracy theories. I actually looked at his/her/its reference, which simply shows that the American government/military is made up of idiots.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:06 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:45 am
One thing I know is that gorgeous is a sucker for conspiracy theories. I actually looked at his/her/its reference, which simply shows that the American government/military is made up of idiots.
And the American public is made of sweeping generalizers.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Morgan de Veldt
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:10 pm

Let's go back a couple of generations, to the early 1960s, when the Red Scare (the second major one in the twentieth century) was still formidable. In a surprising place, namely an address to a chapter of American Legion, you'll find the poem "Song of a Modern Vigilante" on pp. 17--18. I remember my roommate reciting it to me back in 1962. It's a priceless (and funny) send-up of conspiracy theories.
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:15 pm

.The Song Of A
Modern Vigilante

A poem:

I sometimes fancy, as I spy

That I excel the F.B.I.

Right now I'm making little lists

Of folks I think are Communists ;

I have no proof on anyone

And yet the list.? are lots of fun.

All friends of foreign aid, I think

Must be set down as rather pink.

A little pinker, not far off

I list perforce the college prof.

And pinker yet the student crowd

That lauds the Bill of Rights out loud.

U.N. supporters, as I've said,

Are always ipso facto red.

And redder still on my red list

Are all the integrationists.

Just for measure, in my labors,

I add a few of my close neighbors;

Thus I rejoice that loyalty

Resides alone in j-ou and me.

Although before my work is through

You may, good friend, be listed too.

https://archive.org/stream/dailytarheel ... 3_djvu.txt
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Morgan de Veldt
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 12:15 pm
.The Song Of A
Modern Vigilante

A poem:

I sometimes fancy, as I spy

That I excel the F.B.I.

Right now I'm making little lists

Of folks I think are Communists ;

I have no proof on anyone

And yet the list.? are lots of fun.

All friends of foreign aid, I think

Must be set down as rather pink.

A little pinker, not far off

I list perforce the college prof.

And pinker yet the student crowd

That lauds the Bill of Rights out loud.

U.N. supporters, as I've said,

Are always ipso facto red.

And redder still on my red list

Are all the integrationists.

Just for measure, in my labors,

I add a few of my close neighbors;

Thus I rejoice that loyalty

Resides alone in j-ou and me.

Although before my work is through

You may, good friend, be listed too.

https://archive.org/stream/dailytarheel ... 3_djvu.txt
Ya beat me to it!! I was about to edit my post to include the actual poem. The link I provided says it appeared first in Catholic News, a publication of the Archdiocese of New York and was later reproduced in "America".
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23399
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:03 pm

The "Daily Tar Heel" is a uni publication in South Carolina.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has No Life
Posts: 12764
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:43 pm

Nice to see it published.
Though I am very, very cynical about the USA ( mostly the government to be honest), I do have a sneaking admiration for your freedom of speech values, in which you can say whatever you like, no matter how cutting, about those in power.

Here in NZ, and in Britain, there is a bit of restraint due to libel laws. I am unsure whether those laws are a net good or evil.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by TJrandom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:19 am

Conspiracy: Gorgeous is nutty as a fruitcake.
The Truth: This is true – the evidence is that ‘it’ referenced Readers Digest ffs… yawn…


(Surely this the first time that any skeptic has referenced RD. By first, I do mean me - in the line above. Gorgeous is no skeptic.) :roll:

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5102
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Morgan de Veldt
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:57 am

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:19 am
Conspiracy: Gorgeous is nutty as a fruitcake.
The Truth: This is true – the evidence is that ‘it’ referenced Readers Digest ffs… yawn…


(Surely this the first time that any skeptic has referenced RD. By first, I do mean me - in the line above. Gorgeous is no skeptic.) :roll:
Absolutely. I don't trust Reader's Digest. I get solid information from TV Guide.
“It is certainly sad and regrettable that so many innocent people died…Stalin was absolutely adamant on making doubly sure: spare no one…I don’t deny that I supported that view. I was simply not able to study every individual case…It was hard to draw a precise line where to stop.”

Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Skryabin (“Molotov”)

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34656
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:39 pm

I used to read Reader's Digest until they refused to publish my joke about the priest and the three nuns.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

User avatar
TJrandom
Has No Life
Posts: 11528
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Custom Title: Salt of the earth
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.

Re: Why Western elites now can’t resist conspiracy theories

Post by TJrandom » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:26 pm

I am surprised that it is still around - though I shouldn't be, given all of the asleep at the wheel Trump supporters there apparently are. Zombies, really...