Brexit

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OutOfBreath
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Re: Brexit

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am

We have small ideological parties due to rules of representation and large electoral districts with multiple elected. If they clear 4% nationally they are due "evening out mandates" as well. Thus we have no true regional parties, although support for the parties vary across regions. The uk parliament has a bunch of small region parties that noone cares about, and usually a bloated conservative or labour party due to "first past the post". The libdems have suffered perhaps the most in this system as they are often third with a sizable chunk of the vote and few mps. In my opinion that system also prevented ukip from being the annoying 10% party it would have been elsewhere in europe, and instead made the conservatives so freaked out they gave them their victory. There is a problem in effective 2party 1man pr district systems that the major parties are more threatened by their fringe than the centre, as districts tend to be securely slanted one way or the other. Anywho

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:24 am

Possibly a telling tidbit of news ... Mrs May has instructed her cabinet to begin preparation for a no-deal exit. It may be nothing - merely a shot across the bows to force the EU back to the negotiating table - or it may be that she's coming to her senses. We'll find out very soon, I think.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:12 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:24 am
Possibly a telling tidbit of news ... Mrs May has instructed her cabinet to begin preparation for a no-deal exit. It may be nothing - merely a shot across the bows to force the EU back to the negotiating table - or it may be that she's coming to her senses. We'll find out very soon, I think.
When John Foster Dulles was US Secretary of State, we called this "brinkmanship."
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:54 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-46591920
Even the fish are voting with their feet fins.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:03 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am
We have small ideological parties due to rules of representation ...
Do you guys ever have the problem Israel does of a few crazies holding the balance of power?
Aldous Huxley wrote:A government with a comprehensive plan for the betterment of society is a government that uses torture.

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Re: Brexit

Post by OlegTheBatty » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:23 pm

No-Deal Brexit plans include military preparedness.

Are they planning to retake Calais? Are 3500 troops enough to do it? Wouldn't that open another back door to the EU? . . . :| . . .
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:03 pm

3500 troops may be enough to hold Grimsby if a foreign fish lands there. Apart from that, it's an excuse to have lots of drills for the ORs whilst the junior officers practice pointing, shouting and stamping.
It's turning into a party.

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Re: Brexit

Post by OlegTheBatty » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:09 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:03 pm
3500 troops may be enough to hold Grimsby if a foreign fish lands there. Apart from that, it's an excuse to have lots of drills for the ORs whilst the junior officers practice pointing, shouting and stamping.
It's turning into a party.
Yabbut, Calais is only defended by French people atm.

OTOH, a 9ft tuna was caught of Guernsey recently, so the fish defence may be necessary.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:55 pm

A forecast ...
Years ago, lots of Brits were envious of the fish markets in France and Spain on the grounds of their fish being more colourful and interesting than ours. Now that more exotic species are moving into UK waters, those same people or their offspring will be moaning that we don't see enough cod, haddock and plaice any more.
Keep your eyes open, Dan - they're headed in your direction.

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Re: Brexit

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:07 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:03 pm
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am
We have small ideological parties due to rules of representation ...
Do you guys ever have the problem Israel does of a few crazies holding the balance of power?
Not really, although the small parties in the center get big inflence at times. But those are the liberals, greens, christian democrats most times. Relatively sensible all of them. Even our right-wing loonies border on reasonable most of the time. But dont mention the eu or membership in it. Then all bets are off, and all major parties divided.

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Re: Brexit

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:08 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:55 pm
A forecast ...
Years ago, lots of Brits were envious of the fish markets in France and Spain on the grounds of their fish being more colourful and interesting than ours. Now that more exotic species are moving into UK waters, those same people or their offspring will be moaning that we don't see enough cod, haddock and plaice any more.
Keep your eyes open, Dan - they're headed in your direction.
More fish for us! But then our stocks go further north as well so who knows...

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Dan
What is perceived as real becomes real in its consequences.

"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:03 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:08 pm

More fish for us! But then our stocks go further north as well so who knows...

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Dan
As fish stocks continue to disappear, technology rakes out more and more from the ocean. It's a train-wreck until countries learn to work together to restore sustainability to the fisheries.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:47 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:03 pm
OutOfBreath wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:11 am
We have small ideological parties due to rules of representation ...
Do you guys ever have the problem Israel does of a few crazies holding the balance of power?
Compared to America's present administration, even Netenyahu and the Likud are models of sanity. They may not be pursuing security in the wisest way (I wouldn't judge, since I don't live there), but there is no question they need to be concerned about security.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:43 pm

The EU Commission has begun to implement its no-deal Contingency Action Plan. Whether they've done this as a 'pile the pressure on' ploy or as a direct response to the UK doing the same thing in the last couple of days or even that they've given up the game altogether is not known.
MP Anna Soubry has threatened to resign if a second referendum is not held. That, like nothing else, ensures that there won't be one.
EDIT: But it's not all doom and gloom. While Theresa May was on her feet (in the House of Commons) delivering the latest whatever, the TV camera was watching Jeremy Corbyn, and he clearly mouthed the words "Stupid woman".
Hell has been let loose. The Speaker of the House was not watching the telly at the time (as he shouldn't be) but has told the House that he will review the recording and take appropriate action.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:11 pm

Interestingly, if stupidly, the EU Commission's Contingency Action Plan has excluded Gibraltar. Someone has made a massive error of judgement or a serious mistake. Trying to wrest Gibraltar from the UK (and, presumably, award it to Spain) will result in the transportation of several regiments of the Army plus a sizeable part of the Royal Navy Fleet to the mouth of the Mediterranean with instructions to repel all boarders.
On second thought, maybe it's the Commission telling the Spanish to lay off. Not mentioning Gibraltar could equally be a tacit acceptance of its current status.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:19 pm

Small independent Nation States = Endless Conflict making WAR hardly avoidable.

Large Federated States = Irritation that local fraud no longer controls leading to Larger Frauds.

Pick your poison.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:43 pm

Poodle wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:43 pm
MP Anna Soubry has threatened to resign if a second referendum is not held. That, like nothing else, ensures that there won't be one.
You'll vote again, you hear!! And you'll KEEP ON voting. Until you GET IT RIGHT!!
Poodle wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 12:43 pm
EDIT: But it's not all doom and gloom. While Theresa May was on her feet (in the House of Commons) delivering the latest whatever, the TV camera was watching Jeremy Corbyn, and he clearly mouthed the words "Stupid woman".
Hell has been let loose. The Speaker of the House was not watching the telly at the time (as he shouldn't be) but has told the House that he will review the recording and take appropriate action.
Stop it!! I can't even keep up with the snowballing absurdities of Trump, Giuliani, and company. Now I've got to get a split-screen so I can watch Parliament simultaneously. If any other country goes this haywire, my brain will overload and short-circuit like Buridan's Ass.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:46 pm

Poodle wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:11 pm
Interestingly, if stupidly, the EU Commission's Contingency Action Plan has excluded Gibraltar. Someone has made a massive error of judgement or a serious mistake. Trying to wrest Gibraltar from the UK (and, presumably, award it to Spain) will result in the transportation of several regiments of the Army plus a sizeable part of the Royal Navy Fleet to the mouth of the Mediterranean with instructions to repel all boarders.
On second thought, maybe it's the Commission telling the Spanish to lay off. Not mentioning Gibraltar could equally be a tacit acceptance of its current status.
I think the EU must be aware that Gibraltar is non-negotiable. The possibility of conflict arising there between the EU and the UK is alarming. I'm telling myself it couldn't happen.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:12 pm

https://www.forces.net/news/why-gibralt ... h-military
No, I can't see any conflict either. But a document concerning the withdrawal of the UK from the EU really should not be issued with no mention of Gibraltar, given the noises Spain regularly makes about it. It leaves the issue very open as far as Spain is concerned.

Further to Corbyn's silent remarks, every lip-reader and their dogs have had a go - the runaway opinion is that he really did say "stupid woman". As 45% of Labour MPs are women. it may not have been his finest hour.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:35 pm

As Brexit is about as important as it's possible to be (other than World War 3), everyone's gone home for Christmas. Parliament is now in recess until 7th January. I hope the rest of the world knows this and also goes into suspended animation.

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:18 pm

My first poli-sci professor said to understand politics, "just follow the money." Doing that, I predict that Brexit will never come to be, because there are too many commercial and industrial interests on the other side.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:33 pm

Poodle wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:35 pm
As Brexit is about as important as it's possible to be (other than World War 3), everyone's gone home for Christmas. Parliament is now in recess until 7th January. I hope the rest of the world knows this and also goes into suspended animation.
And there's no one willing to call them into special session? Hurry, Epiphany!

I'm always in suspended animation (I call it hibernation) from December 1 through March 1.
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Re: Brexit

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:18 pm
My first poli-sci professor said to understand politics, "just follow the money." Doing that, I predict that Brexit will never come to be, because there are too many commercial and industrial interests on the other side.
Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution right now, but we are talking about politicians and governments here. Pragmatism is not on the table.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:11 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm
... Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution right now, but we are talking about politicians and governments here. Pragmatism is not on the table.
No, indeed. There are ways to stay in, and ways to exit, which are logical in terms of damage limitation for both sides. But rather than exploring those, we have a competition between a British PM who is seeking a memorial and a dedicated bureaucrat who is befuddled for most of his waking hours. All the signs are that neither of them will budge and, therefore, we have a no-deal situation. In the face of this two-person confrontation, we still have diehards who believe that another referendum will provide direction and certainty.
I'm simply going to enjoy Christmas in the hope that no one tries to regulate that into a boring fart of a festival.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:52 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution right now, but we are talking about politicians and governments here. Pragmatism is not on the table.
Pragmatism: 1. (philosophy) the doctrine that practical consequences are the criteria of knowledge and meaning and value
2. The attribute of accepting the facts of life and favoring practicality and literal truth

Well.......its not in either of those definitions, .......but.....in my view pragmatism can only be evaluated in what the goal of a situation/problem is. Weighing the pros and cons of alternative plans of actions according to what you want to achieve.

In my mind...the pros of being part of a larger entity generally outweigh the pros of being on your own. Most complicated problems actually have different pros and cons, different pragmatic solutions, for various interests groups involved in the problem. As landrew stated, quite a few moneyed interests are benefited by staying in. Need it be said that other moneyed interests in fact do benefit by Brexit?.....EG: last I caught the tail end of, certain local/UK fishing interests want Brexit? Probably the same for local farming interests?==>ie, lack of cheaper imports as a general rule?

We are all more the same than different. Raising artificial "political" fences between us should be seen as generally bad.......depending on what you want to achieve..........

So...........what is the problem you identify that Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution to right now?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:52 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:44 pm
Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution right now, but we are talking about politicians and governments here. Pragmatism is not on the table.
Pragmatism: 1. (philosophy) the doctrine that practical consequences are the criteria of knowledge and meaning and value
2. The attribute of accepting the facts of life and favoring practicality and literal truth

Well.......its not in either of those definitions, .......but.....in my view pragmatism can only be evaluated in what the goal of a situation/problem is. Weighing the pros and cons of alternative plans of actions according to what you want to achieve.

In my mind...the pros of being part of a larger entity generally outweigh the pros of being on your own. Most complicated problems actually have different pros and cons, different pragmatic solutions, for various interests groups involved in the problem. As landrew stated, quite a few moneyed interests are benefited by staying in. Need it be said that other moneyed interests in fact do benefit by Brexit?.....EG: last I caught the tail end of, certain local/UK fishing interests want Brexit? Probably the same for local farming interests?==>ie, lack of cheaper imports as a general rule?

We are all more the same than different. Raising artificial "political" fences between us should be seen as generally bad.......depending on what you want to achieve..........

So...........what is the problem you identify that Exitbrexit would be the most pragmatic solution to right now?
The most famous pragmatist was William James, who found a pragmatic reason for being a theist in the practical consequence that this belief gave him comfort. A famous, sainted skeptic, namely Martin Gardner, near the end of his life, called himself a fideist, because he subscribed to the motto credo quia consolans (I believe because it is comforting [to me].)

The trouble is (and this was pointed out by Bertrand Russell), that nobody is a thoroughgoing pragmatist. A pragmatist on the jury at a trial for murder will weigh the evidence just like all the non-pragmatists, whereas if he were a committed pragmatist, he would try to see whom it would be most advantageous to hang; that person would, by the pragmatic definition, be guilty of the crime. And that's the fallacy at the heart of pragmatism. It's a double whammy: (1) How do you determine what the consequences of a belief are? (That is, if you are a pragmatist. To conclude that B is a consequence of A when you are trying to decide whether to believe A, you have to look at the consequences of B. And then to decide whether C is a consequence of B, you need to look at the consequences of C....). (2) But if you say the consequences also have to take account of non-pragmatic analysis and cannot oppose its conclusions, then pragmatism becomes a superfluous superstructure on ordinary methods of reasoning. Obviously, if any system of reasoning leads to conclusions that are at variance with observation, then there is a flaw in that system. In that sense, all science is "pragmatic" (although the label adds nothing to what science already is), and what pragmatism contributes is merely the truism that we can't be confident that a thing is true until it has stood repeated experimental tests.
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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:48 pm

Like every other philosophy, in every field of endeavor, pragmatism is only a goal itself. We are Not xyz, we only "try" to be xyz as best we can. Everything is interactive and needs to be balanced for its and others pros and cons. Nothing is pure....except maybe BS?

I was struck by how much your examples were primarily existential choices......but a minute longer, no, its as posted before you don't know what pragmatism mean/is/should be until you state what the goal is. Pragmatism is a method to achieve some stated goal, its not a goal in itself.

If you define your life goal "to be happy" then yes, pragmatically you choose whatever it is that gives you that feeling. Immediately....my pragmatism rises up and asks: "Is that long term or short term?"......................and.................again pragmatically: "How happy am I short term enjoying something that is long term BS."

Pragmatism, Existentialism, Choices, Pros and Cons, Long term, Short term, Balancing........how many more?..........ALWAYS A MIX OF THINGS. The goal of any book seller is to write one simple thing, and sell the {!#%@} out of it.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:28 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:48 pm
The goal of any book seller is to write one simple thing, and sell the {!#%@} out of it.
:lol: :lol:

If "book seller" includes the author (as you imply), then you've got me dead to rights. I sure as hell want to sell books. However, pragmatically, my goal cannot be said to have been realized, up to now, and I have made a decision not to write any more, so....

One thing I'm sure of: The purpose of fire is combustion and the purpose of rust is oxidation.
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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:50 pm

Like evolution? I think most properly fire is the result (aka purpose of) combustion? So much for certainty.

I too have a writers bent, but it is countered by a damnable recognition of brevity. I can summarize every great idea I have in about 3 sentences. Why describe the waves of wheat ripening in the field?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:40 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:28 pm
... and I have made a decision not to write any more, so....

One thing I'm sure of: The purpose of fire is combustion and the purpose of rust is oxidation.
Don't! Keep writing and sod the publication. Anyway, there's reams of material to be had in whether fire is the purpose or the result of combustion, and whether rust is the purpose or the result of oxidation. See? - there's miles of material still around.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:25 am

Poodle wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:40 pm
Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:28 pm
... and I have made a decision not to write any more, so....

One thing I'm sure of: The purpose of fire is combustion and the purpose of rust is oxidation.
Don't! Keep writing and sod the publication. Anyway, there's reams of material to be had in whether fire is the purpose or the result of combustion, and whether rust is the purpose or the result of oxidation. See? - there's miles of material still around.
I doubt that any of us on this board---You and I and bobbo and Gord and TJRandom and JO and Electric Monk and Matthew Ellard….---even COULD stop writing if we wanted to. As long as our fingers can move across a keyboard, we'll keep on writing. As you say, sod the publication. I couldn't wait to see my first book in print back in 1984. By the time the seventh was published (in 2017), the whole publishing thing was a colossal bore. Even before I decided to write any books, of course, there were scholarly papers to be written, unless I wanted to give up my cushy academic position and put hamburgers together at McDonald's. When my first paper was rejected in 1966, I was crushed for weeks. Now, I've got one final paper in the pipeline, and no matter how much my colleagues (who grow fewer every year!) beg me, I won't dance.

But if I had to give up writing, I'd give up on life. This board is my anchor to sanity (or insanity---whichever, it is my comfort zone).
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Poodle
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:11 pm

I've always thought that the alternative to writing is talking to people. That's too slow. With writing, THEY have to spend the time thinking as, hopefully, the author has already done that bit.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:56 pm

The Hurdy Gurdy Man. If you don't publish, you can always go to a bar and get beat up if you need to suffer.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:40 pm

:nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw:



:nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw: :nsfw:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm

Now Safe For Work?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gord » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:52 am

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Now Safe For Work?
No it is not. Frankie Boyle likes to be politically incorrect, to swear a lot, and to make dead baby jokes.

He did a minor monologue about a dead Christian in this video. Remember the one who went to the island to proselytise all over the natives, who then killed him? Yeah. That dead Christian.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:12 am

Gord wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:52 am
TJrandom wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Now Safe For Work?
No it is not. Frankie Boyle likes to be politically incorrect, to swear a lot, and to make dead baby jokes.

He did a minor monologue about a dead Christian in this video. Remember the one who went to the island to proselytise all over the natives, who then killed him? Yeah. That dead Christian.
Ah... those were the good old days... Good to know that cultural tradition still counts fer sumtim these days. A good cleansing of the gene pool that was. May he Rest In Peace on that beach.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:38 am

Not too long now before play resumes with Parliament opening up again after a well-earned holiday (but tantamount to calling a break halfway through D-Day). The only thing which has changed (apparently) is that there are some noises coming from Brussels along the lines of "maybe she wasn't bluffing after all". Normal service will be resumed on 7th January, when all really bad hangovers will have receded.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:20 am

TJrandom wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:12 am
Gord wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:52 am
TJrandom wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm
Now Safe For Work?
No it is not. Frankie Boyle likes to be politically incorrect, to swear a lot, and to make dead baby jokes.

He did a minor monologue about a dead Christian in this video. Remember the one who went to the island to proselytise all over the natives, who then killed him? Yeah. That dead Christian.
Ah... those were the good old days... Good to know that cultural tradition still counts fer sumtim these days. A good cleansing of the gene pool that was. May he Rest In Peace on that beach.
Amen, bro! I sure as {!#%@} ain't goin' in there to bring the body back home for burial.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Re: Brexit

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:56 pm

Hey Poodle, I've missed the BBC the last couple of days. When will Parliament be well and truly open? And what's first on the agenda, that is, after the Queen's speech?
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist