Brexit

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scrmbldggs
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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:19 am

MikeN wrote: Whose seat did they take?
Seat?
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:19 am
MikeN wrote: Whose seat did they take?
Seat?
Some people will do ANYTHING to get ahead in politics :lol:
Oh - I shouldn't have said ahead :oops:

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:17 am

The case against Boris Johnson has been thrown out of court. No reasons were given, as far as I can see, but playing silly buggers with the court's time may have something to do with it.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:26 pm

I had a dream he had died the other night, drove into the river and disappeared. Weird that.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:55 pm

Nice piece on loony Brexit. This time, its that person Raab getting a mench in a general satirical Graun Observer piece on the contending to be Tory captain of the Good Ship business. What a business!
'Claim of the week
The contest’s self-proclaimed Brexiter-in-chief, Dominic Raab, identified the next phase of Brexit meltdown by refusing to rule out suspending parliament in order to secure a no-deal Brexit. It is part of a wider effort by Brexiters to find the most absurd irony possible in their quest to set British democracy free from the shackles of European servitude. It is not yet clear how temporarily parking parliament, having become prime minister after a vote among 120,000-odd Tory members, hands power back to British democracy. I’m sure all will become clear.'
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nd-turkeys

Whatever democracy is, that ain't it baby.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:13 am

Nor is Dominic Raab the leader of the Conservative Party and, therefore, not the Prime Minister. He's in a competition for the post, but that's about it. If he wins (which is unlikely, but I've said that kind of thing before) then he'll be in a position to explain why what he said in the 'posturing' stages of the contest is just the normal electioneering BS and wasn't meant in any 'real' kind of way.
Par for the course for politicians, in other words.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Gord » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:46 am

Poodle wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:17 am
The case against Boris Johnson has been thrown out of court. No reasons were given, as far as I can see, but playing silly buggers with the court's time may have something to do with it.
Apparently, Lady Justice Rafferty and Mr Justice Supperstone agreed with Johnson's barrister, Adrian Darbishire QC, that the case was politically motivated and vexatious.

I mean...yes? But if the charges are also true, then so what? :heh:
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:09 pm

Depends what you mean by true ... the argument is over whether or not Boris should have used the gross figure or the net figure. In terms of gross, Boris was telling the truth.
In the meantime, here are the declared support figures (Conservative Party only) for the candidates for PM who actually stand a chance ...
Boris Johnson ... 42
Michael Gove ... 29
Jeremy Hunt ... 28
Dominic Raab ... 21
Michael Gove has just shot himself well and truly in the foot by declaring that he used cocaine when he was younger (sounds like he's telling us before someone else does).

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:20 pm

I was under the impression that was par for the course in UK politics, with one person admitting to a bastard child, another of buggery, and so on.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:03 pm

I think it's compulsory rather than par for the course.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:08 pm

Unforgettable posture.

Image

There are no wet Tories. That era has been and gone.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:54 am

MikeN wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:20 pm
I was under the impression that was par for the course in UK politics, with one person admitting to a bastard child, another of buggery, and so on.
Back in Mrs. Thatcher's day the Tory's seem to own auto-erotic asphyxiation gone horribly wrong.... make of that what you will...

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:40 am

In the meantime, the UK has signed an in-principle trade deal with South Korea which will seamlessly duplicate the present EU/S. Korea arrangements. This is the first UK/Asia agreement.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:03 am

I thought our markets were here, Europe, not in South Korea...Maybe they can have the NHS now.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:34 am

Steven Milligan, he was the auto asphyxiation Tory. Liked to cross dress whilst doing it.

LOL. In terms of 'Tory leaders' and Prime Sinisters. Ah the faded vision of Thatcherites in thrall to a political dominatrix in the cabinet, It still overwheens the poor sodlings. Then we had Major grey underpants and his affair with the lady Egg woman not exactly a bodice ripper. He was almost an acceptable PS after the Snatcher was finally knifed by her own party and after all she had done for them. Then was little boy Vague followed by the 'caring sharing' Catholic Tory quiet man. He devised Universal Credit and turned Social Security into the Free Market after they got rid of him. Then we had the joke coward Eton pig fornicator who was reliably considered the worst prime minister we ever had. He did a bunk after the Referendum... Followed by the Maybot, she was a remainer, now shes a leaver, now shes in purple, next she's wearing Frieda Kahno.

What next I wonder, what on earth next? We want to know who is being foisted on us next by the mother of democracies, Westmonster. Could it be the albino Boris the bear shitting in the woods, or Pob himself who said teachers should 'lose their jobs,' for using Charlie - but then had to somewhat freely admit to it himself and he wants to be PS? Huh. The other candidates were trying to shaft him and now, well now they can't wait to get shot of him. Er Drugs are baaaad.

There are twelve tanaise righ or tanaise ban rig. See Tanistry. Lets make it thirteen candidates and have a last supper. Leadsom says that whoever gets to wear the purple and goes for a No Deal will trigger a GE. 12 of them. I dunno who they all are. Of course it will be a GE in which either the Labour or the Tories or the Snake eyes Fascist with zero policies gets in - because that's FPP democracy folks. And none of them in the political parties high on the power have any vested interest in changing it...Remote interest.

'Posturer,' Raab. Its like Maggie's farm all over again. Only this time its obvious what a con it all is.

Howe, 'the dead sheep.'

Image
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:23 pm

Don't beat about the bush, Darren - tell us what you REALLY think.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:44 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:54 am
MikeN wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:20 pm
I was under the impression that was par for the course in UK politics, with one person admitting to a bastard child, another of buggery, and so on.
Back in Mrs. Thatcher's day the Tory's seem to own auto-erotic asphyxiation gone horribly wrong.... make of that what you will...
Seems I erred, this occurred during Mr. Major's time....

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:23 am

Well, that's when it hit the news. I suspect it already had a long history.

Meanwhile, It's competition time for the next PM. There are 10 candidates left in the race and the first vote is on Thursday. The candidate with the least number of votes drops out, then it's rinse and repeat until only one is left standing. The whole process should take a month. There is at least one Remainer in the race.

EDIT: And more meanwhile, it appears that the EU Commission has finally realised that there is no legal basis whatsoever to claim that the UK will owe the EU £39 billion in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Not knowing that and making a lot of noise about the huge commitment smacks of incompetence to me. Or, possibly, bare-faced lying.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:42 am

Would US neocons "pushing back" constitute interference in British elections?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... sh-leaders
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 pm

In my opinion, antisemitism is now enshrined in the UK Labour Party, and particularly in its leader, Jeremy Corbyn. The more people in the world who push back against this abomination the better. Antisemitism should be allowed no part in UK life in general, let alone UK elections. Push to your heart's content, world.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:38 am

Poodle wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:30 pm
In my opinion, antisemitism is now enshrined in the UK Labour Party, and particularly in its leader, Jeremy Corbyn. The more people in the world who push back against this abomination the better. Antisemitism should be allowed no part in UK life in general, let alone UK elections. Push to your heart's content, world.
What, do you suppose, is their anti-Semitic agenda?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:00 am

That's a discussion for elsewhere, Tom.
In the meantime, tomorrow sees the first of the Conservative Party Leader election votes which will begin the process of weeding out the no-hopers. It will be a surprise if Rory Stewart is not the first casualty.
EDIT: To give you an idea of which way the wind is blowing, a recent survey suggests that the ONLY candidate for the leadership who would command an overall majority in a General Election is Boris Johnson. Some of the other candidates, suggests the same survey, would win the most Parliamentary seats but NOT with an overall majority in Parliament.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:40 am

Political stupidity is becoming the new chic.
As things stands (and as a result of terrible choices by Theresa May) we are leaving the EU on October 31st. Boris Johnson is, at present, being roundly criticised for stating that we will leave the EU on that date with or without a deal.
On the other hand, we have the Speaker of the House of Commons (who should be - MUST be - neutral) shouting for a deal, we have the majority of the Prime Ministerial candidates saying there must NOT be a no-deal scenario, and we have the Labour Party attempting to introduce a Bill into Parliament which, if passed, would make a no-deal scenario illegal.
It must be obvious (mustn't it?) that whether you actually want a deal or no-deal you do NOT tell your opposite numbers that. It is obvious, isn't it? Yes?
EDIT: Forget I said any of that. Almost all of the messages from the candidates were changing as I typed. Now there is only ONE candidate who has completely ruled out a no-deal solution. There you go - a minute is a long time in politics.

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:52 am

At this point - as a member in good standing in the EU, maybe the UK could suggest that the EU simply disband, so that the UK doesn’t have to leave. :mrgreen:

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:15 pm

Parliament has, in the last few minutes, voted by a majority of only 11 not to outlaw the possibility of a no-deal Brexit. Now we know that there are less lunatics than non-lunatics in Parliament, if only just. No-deal coming off the table would have been a gift to the EU Commission.

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:25 pm

What was the language used? I was under the impression that it is EU's default position(as well as UK's) that Brexit happens end of October. Was Parliament mandating a cancellation?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:32 am

That IS the default position, MikeN. What a lot of our Parliamentarians of a Remain mentality were trying to do was change that to make it impossible for the UK to leave without a trade deal in place - in other words, only on terms dictated by the EU. That can't happen now. It was the last throw of the dice for the Remainers in Parliament (a minority, even if only just a minority).
The no-deal situation is a big bargaining chip as far as the UK is concerned - as things stand, it is the fallback solution. That is NOT in any way advantageous for the EU - at the very least, it will cost them £39 billion.

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:46 am

Suppose Parliament passes their rule(my understanding of UK law is they will have many chances to try this again).
Then suppose EU sticks to the same deal as before, which Parliament doesn't pass.
What then happens in Nov? My understanding is the EU's position is Brexit happens then by default.
What Parliament has said on the matter cannot change what EU has already ruled.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:25 am

It is not permissible to return the same subject matter to Parliament after a vote unless there has been substantial change in the conditions pertaining (this was why repeated voting on May's Brexit proposal was questionable). Effectively, then, yesterday's vote cannot be overturned and no-deal can no longer be ruled out. A no-deal outcome is not a declaration - it IS that default position you mention, and it will now happen on October 31st unless a formal deal is struck in the meantime. Had the vote gone the other way, it would have trapped the UK within the EU until a formal agreement was hammered out - which could have been never. All the EU would have had to do to keep the UK within the EU was to constantly say no. Yes, some of our politicians really are bloody stupid.
The rulings of Parliament and the EU are independent of one another. As things stand, the UK leaves the EU at midnight on 31st October and all EU rulings immediately become null and void as far as the UK is concerned. If the EU wants to prevent that, then they must come up with an offer which would be attractive to all parties in the UK - and that is hugely unlikely if not impossible.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:47 am

The first elimination vote (for the new Prime Minister) begins at 10 am today (for Conservative MPs only). Any candidate receiving less than 10 votes will be immediately eliminated. Four candidates stand a good chance of being chucked out of the competition today (Mark Harper, Andrea Leadsom, Esther McVey and Rory Stewart).

EDIT: First round over. As expected, Mark Harper, Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey were all eliminated. Boris Johnson led with 114 votes and his nearest rival, Jeremy Hunt, was 71 votes behind him.

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:06 pm

>All the EU would have had to do to keep the UK within the EU was to constantly say no.

I don't think this is correct, because the EU's default position is also Brexit in Oct. Under their own rules, there would have to be an official request from UK to reverse this, either deal, postponement, or cancellation. Simply ruling out no-deal by Parliament is not enough.

I assume since May did not call for the vote, that yesterday was an amendment of some sort, and not the actual vote on banning no-deal, similar to how they got the extension demand in April. If this is the case, then repeated attempts should be OK, right?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:24 pm

I see what you mean, MikeN.
But the EU do not want a no-deal Brexit (they would lose a lot of money) so if the UK had made a no-deal Brexit illegal then it would be in the best interests of the EU to unilaterally declare the UK's membership extended until a deal was struck. Our own laws would prevent us from doing anything about it other than agreeing an exit deal.
EDIT: One of the leadership candidates has withdrawn, so we're down to six already.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:23 am

An interesting situation is developing ...
Boris Johnson, the odds-on favourite to become the next Prime Minister, has stated that he is determined to leave on October 31st, the Brexit date determined by the EU Commission. The EU Commission is now saying that some EU members and/or organisations will not have completed their Brexit preparations by October 31st and there should, therefore, be a further delay.
As the Commission has a clear record of a) lying b) game-playing c) bullying and d) moving the goalposts, should the UK now insist upon the October 31st date or help the EU out of its difficulties and allow a further delay?
It's a difficult one ...

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:02 am

Did the EU give a warning like this 4.5 months prior to March 29, the original Brexit date?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:25 am

If they did, MikeN, I don't remember it. The Commission and, notably, Macron, have been the ones complaining because the UK wasn't ready on March 31st. The Commission and, notably, Macron are now the ones complaining because the EU won't be ready by October 31st. To be fair, nor will the UK, but hypocrisy is hypocrisy wherever it occurs.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:49 am

Another round of votes today. Up until a couple of days ago, I knew that Rory Stewart (yes, I can hear the "Who?") was next to be voted out. Suddenly, however, he's second favourite. I have no idea why. So, Dominic Raab or Savid Javid is likely to be going home by this evening.
I know you're all sitting on the edge of your seat.

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:39 am

Poodle wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:49 am
... I know you're all sitting on the edge of your seat.
I was learnt that as a child - never slouch and never lean against the back of a chair. ;) I had a girlfriend that commented - that was what attracted her when she compared me to others. While I don't slouch even now, I do sometimes use the backs of chairs, but then I am not in the market for a girlfriend. :lol:

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Re: Brexit

Post by OutOfBreath » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:31 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:49 am
Another round of votes today. Up until a couple of days ago, I knew that Rory Stewart (yes, I can hear the "Who?") was next to be voted out. Suddenly, however, he's second favourite. I have no idea why. So, Dominic Raab or Savid Javid is likely to be going home by this evening.
I know you're all sitting on the edge of your seat.
He was endorsed by the economist last week. Maybe he's becoming the "liberal champion" in this contest.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:18 pm

Results are in, and it is, indeed Dominic Raab who drops out. Sajid Javid got 33 votes - the absolute minimum needed to stay in the contest. Rory Stewart did NOT do so well as he was threatening to do. The Boris got a moderate increase in numbers - nothing overwhelming, but enough to remain way out in front.

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:27 am

Poodle, Bercow claimed he and Parliament would prevent no-deal Brexit. Nowhere is he saying anything about overruling a default position.
What is his plan here?