A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

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Matthew Ellard
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: words have meaning.

Willard v. Tayloe, 75 U.S. (8 Wall.) 557 / ""The decision is also notable for being the only one of four major Supreme Court decisions on equity which invoked the English common law roots of American equity jurisprudence."
bobbo_the_Pragmatist previously lied and wrote:"2)There is no such thing as an appeal at Equity in the Supreme Court of the USA".
bobbo_the_Pragmatist previously lied and wrote: 3) The bottom line being that "basically" the US is a statutory code system with the common law relating to the stare decisis of US courts: NOT the English courts.
Tsk tsk tsk... Bad luck Bobbo. :lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:14 am

Willard v. Tayloe, 75 U.S. (8 Wall.) 557 (1869) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_v._Tayloe

matt: you really have to pull your head out of the 19th Century. check the thread for links to consolidation of law and equity courts. You really are starting to dissemble a bit.........being incompetent is still my second choice, but growing in evidence.

You can't fool me..............so who is your audience?
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A Monument to Stupidity.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:57 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Willard v. Tayloe, 75 U.S. (8 Wall.) 557(1869) matt: you really have to pull your head out of the 19th Century. check the thread for links to consolidation of law and equity courts. You really are starting to dissemble a bit.........being incompetent is still my second choice, but growing in evidence.
Bad luck Bobbo. I have just shown you the Supreme Court hearing an equity case AND confirming that US common law is based on English common law. Both which you denied. I then linked you to two paper showing how both common law and equity law are both heard in the modern Supreme Court of the USA.....which you lied and omitted a quote to hide your stupidity.

You lied and made up complete bull-{!#%@} and you got caught out over and over and over again.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote:You can't fool me.
bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote:"There is no such thing as an appeal at Equity in the Supreme Court of the USA".
I just did. Our bet is back on. The loser has to leave the forum forever. Do you continue to claim the modern Supreme Court of the USA cannot hear Equity cases? Yes or No?. :lol: :lol:

You're not really just a lying coward and troll are you Bobbo? :lol: :lol:

(I have two well known modern Supreme Court Equity cases, both from appeals, for you to read, before you leave the forum forever. :mrgreen:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:17 am

Q-18.
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A Monument to Stupidity.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:29 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Q-18.
No Bobbo. You can't change the topic after you were caught lying and hiding the evidence that proved you wrong. :lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=24767&start=480#p695249

We have a bet. The loser ( Bobbo) has to leave the forum forever.

You made up a story that the modern Supreme Court of the USA, cannot hear Equity law cases. I have supplied hard evidence in legal journals, and case law showing that is a complete lie and doesn't even make sense. You continue to make this bogus claim.

Are you running away from the bet?

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A Monument to Stupidity.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:32 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: What did I make up Matt?
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"1) In the USA at the beginning when there was no legislature, all the law was common".
A complete fabrication
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"2)There is no such thing as an appeal at Equity in the Supreme Court of the USA".
A complete fabrication
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: 3) The bottom line being that "basically" the US is a statutory code system with the common law relating to the stare decisis of US courts: NOT the English courts.
A complete fabrication
Three strikes.jpg
.

Why do you lie so much Bobbo? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:54 pm

Q18.
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A Monument to Stupidity

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:13 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Q-18: What example do you have of the High Court of Oz overturning the law of the case before it and yet is still bound by stare decisis?
You lied and faked evidence about the your claim concerning Supreme Court of the USA. Don't try hide by changing the topic to Australia.

Why do you lie so much Bobbo? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:16 am

Q18.
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Bobbo is lying again.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatis wrote: Q18.
No Bobbo. It's over. You lost and your lies have all been exposed.

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:23 am

Q18.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Bobbo is lying again.

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:35 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: What did I make up Matt?
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"1) In the USA at the beginning when there was no legislature, all the law was common".
A complete fabrication
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:"2)There is no such thing as an appeal at Equity in the Supreme Court of the USA".
A complete fabrication
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: 3) The bottom line being that "basically" the US is a statutory code system with the common law relating to the stare decisis of US courts: NOT the English courts.
A complete fabrication
Three strikes.jpg
.

Why do you lie so much Bobbo? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:43 am

Is that 3 strikes or now 6?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:18 am

landrew wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:32 am
Still never admitting to any mistake.//// Thumbs up by Matt. //////
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Landrew is talking about YOU matt. I'm even admitting error two posts up on the same page.

Just that self centered. It should be framed. "This is what happens when you never answer a direct question." or "Whats at the bottom of a really deep stupid hole?"
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Landrew is talking about YOU matt.
No he is not Bobbo. He saw your bogus claims and your pathetic attempt to forge evidence. :lol:

Here's another one....
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: "Or is it the case that in the Supreme Court of Australia in a case of common law equity...........
There is no such thing as the Supreme Court of Australia.

You simply make stuff up and don't have a clue what any of the words actually mean.
:lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:36 am

Without going back to the Link, you could well be right. There is no Supreme Court of Australia that I did write in jest referring to what does exist which is the local trial courts of various districts/states/ "areas" --whatever they are called in Oz. They would be the Supreme Court of Melbourne or various other courts of initial filing. The equivalent of what most states in the USA call "Superior Courts" as opposed to all the other kinds of court: Small Claims, Traffic, Bankruptcy and so forth.....but not "of" Oz.....just "in" Oz. Weird anyone would call any "first" court a Supreme Court. I wonder what the history is of that? Like: as oppossed to dueling, or what?....or maybe Church run dispute resolutions? Supreme vis a vis the Church........but not other courts. I'd like to know the answer to that. Hopefully, some day it will fall in my lap.

I'll credit you with that degree of precision.........not counting in you totally miff the joke. Ellard the Miff, so to speak.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:36 am
I'd like to know the answer to that. Hopefully, some day it will fall in my lap.
Generally not liking things that fall into my lap I found the answer: https://www.findlaw.com.au/faqs/1187/wh ... d-how.aspx

They are supreme to other courts in their State or Territory....just like the US as in Supreme Court of California. Some differences as apparently they also take on initial filings....again weird......... More reading because I don't want to forge any documents here: trial court for "serious indictable offences, such as murder". Too many murder trials in USA to have Supreme Courts doing that.

What a nice country.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:50 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Without going back to the Link, you could well be right. There is no Supreme Court of Australia
You are a complete idiot.

I am a a tax lawyer who writes commercial contracts and court briefs. I have to add common law ratios and obiter citations to my submission and I have to know, by heart, roughly 200 tax cases, decided by the High Court of Australia,

You are a troll who simply makes stuff up and hasn't got a clue what any legal terms mean. :lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:00 am

I'm an idiot /////////////I'm a complete idiot because I say the same thing you did?

I don't get it. Sounds like you have two different standards.......but that couldn't be true? Or is that the rule when practicing equity law in the Supreme Court of Coober Pedy? Underlining words makes them more true right?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:58 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I'm an idiot /////////////I'm a complete idiot
Agreed
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I don't get it.
You never did. That's why you made a a series of bogus claims and then forged your evidence to hide your lies. :lol: :lol:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: .......practicing equity law in the Supreme Court of Coober Pedy?
There isn't a Supreme Court in Coober Pedy, you complete idiot. You are lying again. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:17 am

Q18,
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:08 pm

Julian Assange was arrested due to disgusting US deep state neocons:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wi ... spartanntp
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by TJrandom » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:43 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:08 pm
Julian Assange was arrested due to disgusting US deep state neocons:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wi ... spartanntp
What? There were US deep state neocons hiding out in the London Ecuadorian embassy whom Assange disgusted? Geez - those deep state neocons are EVERYWHERE! :roll:

Having just finished reading the article - it is very clear that his cat was the final insult.

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:20 pm

Assange: well, that took awhile to play out. TV told me that Assange is seen as a stooge/tool of Russia "because" wikileaks has "never" reported on dictator, hard right, or Russian subjects. I don't even need to confirm what looks like "should be" an exaggeration there.........I mean......... even a stooge tool should make a few negative reports just as a cover?

But if not: I still don't care. WHAT MATTERS: Is the truth.

Assuming its true, that Assange was a stooge........why did he never escape to Russia? That would seem like a natural to me. but......if true, I wonder why USA/The West didn't set up some kind of wikileaks for our side...I mean besides the constant hacking and monitoring the USA does on its own and therefore doesn't need any leaks?.....and probably doesn't want any anti-Russian leaks published unless they agree, iow: wants to keep the leaks secret for their own nefarious dealings?

Where is John Le Carre when we need him?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by mpsmitty » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:19 am

Tom Palven wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:08 pm
Julian Assange was arrested due to disgusting US deep state neocons:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wi ... spartanntp
Yay! (I presume that's what you meant)

But on to what I am really interested about - In an attempt to quell the Bobbo/Matt fight. I think both of you are saying 90% of the same thing, but there is somewhat of a technical language barrier.

The Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) primarily has appeal jurisdiction of both state (when it involves a federal question) and federal appeals. It also has original jurisdiction per Article III of the United States Constitution over certain matters.

It relies upon Stare Decisis and considers itself 'bound' by it up until the point it overrules itself. Which it does, hence the consternation over whether Roe v. Wade will be overturned. Lawyers typically use caselaw (past decisions) in attempt analogize it their current fact pattern. American caselaw is indeed based upon English caselaw, but way back when. Modern decisions cite American caselaw. However, if you go back far enough, you'll find weird decisions citing English caselaw.

American Law is a mix of statutory and common law. All criminal law is statutory (with caselaw interpreting those statutes), common torts in both the state and federal system are... common law. You sue some property owner for a slip and fall based on... common law.

American law has combined the terms Equity and Common law in practice. Things sounding in 'Equity' can and are heard by SCOTUS, but the common parlance isn't typically used. Hence Bobbo's claim.

My authority is me (yes I know it's an appeal to authority). I practice in both State and Federal Court and have filed briefs and/or argued in state appellate and Supreme Courts and Federal District, Circuit, and SCOTUS (never argued, just filed briefs).

I hope that vaguely settles it?
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Re: A Moment of Courage is Needed

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:35 am

Aaaaaaaa, you're not gonna argue us, are ya? :worried:



:wave: Welcome to SSF, mpsmitty
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:01 am

Yeah welcome smitty: especially since Matt has not attended for a few weeks now. I assume he's on one of his fantastic vacations somewhere in the world and will rejoin us any day now to: disagree with both of us. Matt has to be agreed with in EVERY DETAIL, otherwise you are a complete idiot. Heh, heh: actually comical after the first wut?

I'm not a lawyer but I love words. So, let's quibble:

you say
Things sounding in 'Equity' can and are heard by SCOTUS, but the common parlance isn't typically used.
If the parlance is not typically used, how common is it? I would substitute" the common" with: "that".

you say
common torts in both the state and federal system are... common law. You sue some property owner for a slip and fall based on... common law.
I thought some states are common law while others are statutory? Hah, hah: ergo: does tort law in California "sound in" common law? .................rats...........I care enough to google: (California common law)==>and find what I always do, a bit of a muddle at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_California /// I think saying Ca is "founded" in common law is a politeness/nod/ceremonial statement that has near zero effect in common practice. In California, you argue statutes and cases. Can you think of a single issue where the argument would be "I found no authority on point, so based on English Common Law..............blah, blah???" I think its a "nicety" who's meaning has been far superseded. But, hey.........who am I to fight a generally accepted norm?

Love to hear your thoughts on Assange. Sounds like you are for enforcing National Security?..........over FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM? Tell me it ain't so?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:07 am

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:20 am

Woke up thinking about common law and why the notion unsettles me. Just being a contrarian in the main and always looking for "what exactly is meant." Example: gun control laws in the USA. Its constitutional law with no parallel in Common Law, so CL has nothing to say about it. Now...just because you slip on a bar of soap in the USA as easily as in the UK.........doesn't mean common law of UK has anything to do with a slip and fall in the US just because 250 years ago that is what we started with. Its kinda like saying Astro Physics is grounded in Astrology.

But that is not the real impetus for the Matt v bobbo discourse. No.....if you go back far enough its Matt saying that you could file a lawsuit and lose it and then file another law suit "grounded in Equity" and have another go at it. Confusing all that is whether or not Matt was thinking vs saying Supreme Court or "Highest Court" in Oz or the USA. Too many loose threads and with Matt never admitting to a single slight error/recall in reasoning, its impossible to get that 10% straightened out.

To assume a lot on my part, Matt did stop arguing about whether or not "the Supreme Court" could violate precedent or not. Perhaps he woke up to which country he was arguing about or some other very base term of confusion? I hope he returns and tells us all about it, as well as share some of his vacation photos. Both subjects would be fascinating.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by mpsmitty » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:18 am

Bobbo says, "Can you think of a single issue where the argument would be "I found no authority on point, so based on English Common Law..............blah, blah???"

http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/ ... -13-17.pdf This a Pennsylvania case were the Government (Commonwealth) was saying there is plenty of American Caselaw in favor of common law forfeiture, whereas the defendant was like, "Nope didn't exist at English Common Law, therefore doesn't exist at american common law. " The Commonwealth Court (an intermediate appellate court in PA) agreed with the defendant. Ultimately, the PA Supreme Court heard it and also agreed. Which kinda screwed law enforcement.
I have a day job and night time job (kids), therefore I might not immediately respond.

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:50 pm

smitty: well! THAT blows my mind: thanks.

Ha, ha........just give me time ...............You actually present the "opposite" argument to my own although that distinction was not the basis of my comment. IOW: English common law is specifically REJECTED by the court........which is basically or close enough to my appreciation of the law......TODAY: its almost all statutory and USA based common law/case law. You found an interesting case that mentions English common law but actually goes against the claim that such is in force. FTL: "Pennsylvania Constitution of 1790,1denounces and effectively abolishes any notion of common law forfeiture and that the predominate, if not unanimous, weight of the authority has determined that common law forfeiture never made it across the seas to America.

Its still interesting the common parlance lasted until 2016. Those Amish must be a drag on the entire society?
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:55 pm

I should add I find the whole area of "civil forfeiture" to be an unbelievable violation of any notion of FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM or even consistent with a lot of black letter law/Constitutional safeguards. If it weren't happening all over the place, Id think it was illegal. Too much of eminent domain not far behind. Its worse than the PA case where some bad idea becomes precedent. In PA...it looks like when the Supremes of that STate took a specific look, they struck the bad precedent down. When it come to civil forfeiture, I think (but don't positively know) that its being given a pass. Leading DIRECTLY, if not actually by design, to local police departments funding their slush funds with such immoral activities.

Its a real shame.............unless you're guilty of course, but we presume innocence!!
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sat May 11, 2019 7:43 am

Chelsea Manning released from prison:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/manni ... smsnnews11
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Tom Palven
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:18 am

Pamela Anderson regarding Julian Assange. Short and to the point:
https://www.pamelaandersonfoundation.or ... a-criminal
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:55 pm

Disagree with the first few paragraphs, have posted the same myself on the latter few.

So................who wrote this? I've never once heard Pamela utter anything cogent. Was it all drugs and fame??
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landrew
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by landrew » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:15 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:55 pm
Disagree with the first few paragraphs, have posted the same myself on the latter few.

So................who wrote this? I've never once heard Pamela utter anything cogent. Was it all drugs and fame??
So it's wrong when someone else writes it, but you posted the same yourself.... OK.

However, being born a 10 doesn't diminish the intelligence in any way to my understanding, but someone asked her opinion, and it seems quite cogent to me. Having a different opinion doesn't necessarily mean the person is less intelligent, even though such assertions are often par for the course in this forum.

I agree with the main point that you can't blame outcomes on lack of filtered information. Secrets can protect the guilty and the innocent alike, but it's usually best to bring all the information to light.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:49 am

Not to put too fine a point on it ..........but you are both: unfocused, as if you can't read past the first spasm of a negative idea crosses your visual cortex.

I split MY critique into two halves. I disagree with the first half of her message.....period. Then there is the second half that I do agree with "and I have posted the same myself." So: no confusion about hypocrisy or crepidarianism ultra or misplaced should be present to those who are not brain dead themselves. This is SO OBVIOUS....my first read took lamedude's response as a joke. Then, the second from TP. I considered the sources. Being entirely consistent with past failures, I have to take the comment at face value. Just a simple straightforward failure in comprehension.

I never mentioned PM goods looks nor did I score her. What I based my comments on was her past statements. This again is failure in comprehension plus a good load of projection.

I won't go back to the link to review whatever the heck "lack of filtered information" had to do with PM's opinion or if this is lamedude's further lack of comprehension.

I do see the appeal of such generalized blatherings. Sounds good: doesn't mean anything. Fodder for the foolish.
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:58 am

Ha, ha.........I see while posting that TP's support for lamedude has been deleted. thumb still up???? A few ways to take that, but I wait for express evidence.

I value dissection of my own work..........how come it so often boomerangs?

I often will advise that its not enough to disagree. That you have TO HAVE REASONS FOR IT. And then extra stars for showing what could have been a better critique.

Lamedude AS ALWAYS musters NO FACTS or arguments. Just boilerplate disagreement. Here is a better response: "Gee bobbo, you agree she is half right? That is very generous on your part given your universal negativity. I'll go back and read that last half....just to reinforce the message Pam put out there. BTW...can you identify where that last half begins? I don't want to misinterpret anyone."

................or is it just me??

.................................... and already I see a most excellent response to the substantive suggestion I made. But.....I can argue with myself on my own time.............. Yes. Its "chess."..........after you get past basic reading skills.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Tom Palven
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Re: A Monument to Courage is Being Planned

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:23 pm

Tom Palven wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:38 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:16 am
Tom Palven wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:42 am
The First Amendment in the Bill of Rights reads:
Congress shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging freedom of freedom of speech or of the press..."
As you are as stupid as Bobbo, you two forgot that the Supreme Court of the United States interprets the law under stare decisis.

Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919), is a United States Supreme Court case concerning enforcement of the Espionage Act of 1917 during World War I.
Justice Holmes : "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent"

The US Espionage Act (1917) specifically sets aside the first amendment if certain conditions exist.

I have no idea why you and Bobbo think Assange can't be charged under the USA Espionage Act 1917, when he has specifically been indicted under that Act.


Justice Holmes was a statist warmonger who employed fallacious logic in arguing that yelling “fire” in a crowded theatre is a free speech issue, a statement that has been quoted by authoritarians to limit free speech ever since.

People entering theatres have an implied contract not to interfere with the show. They have no right to yell “This is a great play! I love this
play!” either.

The 1917 Espionage Act, as stated in my previous comment about creeping authoritarianism, was a modern effort by the state to sabotage the Bill of Rights guarantees of free press and free speech.

Holmes used the “fire in a crowded theatre” argument in the Schenck case regarding enforcement of the Espionage Act that was used to convict and imprison Socialist Presidential candidate Eugene Debs for speaking out against US entry into WW I, and especially speaking out against the military draft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

Arguing against the military draft was not the equivalent of yelling “fire” in a crowded theatre, but Debs was sentenced to prison.
I'm currently reading Mind Fixers: Psychiatry's Troubled Search for the Biology of Mental Illness, by Anne Harrington, 2019, and am enjoying it very much although I'm only on page 53. It almost reads like a novel.

Anyway, lo and behold, on page 53 Oliver Wendell Holmes, the guy who legitimized the Espionage Act, popped up in discussing the history of government-forced sterilization.

His statement in support of the 8-1 majority opinion was:
"It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind."

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire