QUOTES about America and Americans

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QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:59 pm

'
Why should the synthetic patriotism of the Mass Media and the self-glorification of school textbooks and Fourth of July speeches be all that is said about America?

I propose a thread where people may post quotes that demonstrate what thoughtful people noted about America---both good and bad!

Here is a modest contribution to start the ball rolling:

"Nothing is more embarrasssing in the ordinary intercourse of life than this irritable patriotism of the Americans. A stranger may be well inclined to praise many of the institutions of their country, but he begs permission to blame some things in it, a permission that is inexorably refused. America is therefore a free country in which, lest anybody should be hurt by your remarks, you are not allowed to speak freely..."
---Alexis de Toqueville, Democracy in America, 1835

.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:24 am

“If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it.”----Norman Thomas (1884 - 1968)



"Chingase los pinches Americanos----My great-great-great-uncle Jesus "Chuy" de los Santos Pardon de la Rosa Guadalupe Dolorosa Sanchez Lopez, (1830 - 1847) Mexican-American War, moments before he was shot in the head and killed.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:27 am

ruben lopez wrote:“If you want a symbolic gesture, don't burn the flag; wash it.”----Norman Thomas (1884 - 1968)



"Chingase los pinches Americanos----My great-great-great-uncle Jesus "Chuy" de los Santos Pardon de la Rosa Guadalupe Dolorosa Sanchez Lopez, (1830 - 1847) Mexican-American War, moments before he was shot in the head and killed.

And Porfirio Diaz: "Pobre Mexico: tan lejos de dios, tan cerca a los Estados Unidos..."
And that was in the late 19th Century BEOFRE we stopped being subtle about our bad intentions, our stealing of resources, and our contempt for Mexicans while we exploited their labor.

But among my own favorites really, is from the Black American poet Countee Cullen,: "I love this cultured hell that tests my youth"
And i'm kinda partial to the words of a sappy (and all but unknown) American poet Sam Walter Foss, whom my ninth grade hsitory teacher used to declaim dolefully when someone responded stupidly to what he thought was a significant REAL (rather than fantasied ) question of history:

"Bring me men to match my mountains,
Bring me men to match my plains;
Men to chart a starry empire,
Men to make celestial claims.
Bring me men to match my prairies,
Men to match my inland seas;
Men to sail beyond my oceans,
Reaching for the galaxies.
These are men to build a nation,
Join the mountains to the sky;
Men of faith and inspiration,
Bring me men, bring me men, bring me men!
Bring me men to match my forests,
Bring me men to match my shore;
Men to guard the mighty ramparts,
Men to stand at freedom's door.
Bring me men to match my mountains,
Men to match their majesty;
Men to climb beyond their summits,
Searching for their destiny.
These are men to build a nation,
Join the mountains to the sky,
Men of faith and inspiration,
Bring me men, bring me men, bring me men!s."
( "The Coming American" by Samuel Walter Foss)

So far it hasn't happened... there are no men to match our mountains. or at least no men to keep our mountains of aspirationfrom being whittled down into mole hills of disappointment and inconsequence.

And oddly enough this poem had apparently been carved on a wall at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Co., but was removed in 2003.....but I don't know if that were before or after that sad, ludicrous, comically tragic afternoon on the US aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, when George W. Bush, playing Air Force Officer as well as Commander in Chief, of the American Armed Forces, announced "Mission Accomplished," and the effective end of the war against Iraq.... the date being May 3, 2003..


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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:02 am

from NMBs poem above:
"Bring me men, bring me men, bring me men"
hmmm and they don't want homosexuals in the military?

Don't get me wrong, I love America. I criticize her as much as anyone. I hate some of the things we have done in our past, I hate some of the people running it and most of those who want to run it, but I don't hate the land. I think the concept of a free country is as beautiful as the mountains, rivers, plains and all the landscapes in between in this nation. I don't have the animosity that numan has toward her. I have in the past, but I now have better, more important things to worry about than let my disappointing disillusionment of how it is get the better of me. I don't care what numan or anyone says about this country. If you love it or hate it or have no opinion, I don't care. So feel free to love her, defend her, hate her, be indifferent toward her, knock her, slap her, or use her. She does it to you.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:24 am

There is a difference between constructive criticism and ridicule. I don't know of any American that objects to the former, or any person who does not object to the latter.


And then there are low life scumb sucking liars. Like this one.
when George W. Bush, playing Air Force Officer as well as Commander in Chief, of the American Armed Forces, announced "Mission Accomplished," and the effective end of the war against Iraq.... the date being May 3, 2003..
That don't care about facts or reality, but use any lie they can dream up to further their cause.

Why is the above statement a lie? Only the abjectly ignorant who have no respect for truth, would not know.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who spreads such lies has no honor, no decency, and is the reason the world is headed for pain and misery. Lies do not lead to peace or prosperity, their intent is destruction.

They are the scum of humanity, not much higher on the evolutionary pole than a cock roach.

That sign was not put up there by President Bush. It was put up by the crew of the ship as their mission had been accomplished and they were headed home, a job well done.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:35 am

rrichar you don't have to resort to calling her a low life scumb [sic] sucking liar.
The date was May 2, 2003. He stood proudly in front of a huge freakin banner that said MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. While he didn't say it, he knew what it said and the message it was intended to send.

She may have misstated that, but you are sorry for calling her those names.

And yes, George W. Bush is a &%^%#$!#@
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:48 am

ruben lopez wrote:rrichar you don't have to resort to calling her a low life scumb [sic] sucking liar.
The date was May 2, 2003. He stood proudly in front of a huge freakin banner that said MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. While he didn't say it, he knew what it said and the message it was intended to send.

She may have misstated that, but you are sorry for calling her those names.

And yes, George W. Bush is a &%^%#$!#@
Well then you fall into the same category, a spreader of lies.

The message that the sign sent is a true message. That ships mission was accomplished, which is why it was headed home.

That crew had every right to feel proud of the job they accomplished. To lie about the intent and meaning of that sign is to spit in their face. It is unjust, and disrespectful of their service.

When people offer up their lives in defense of freedom and are spit on, those doing the spitting are low life scum, with no honor, no decency, no respect for truth.

You don't spit on young men who offer up their life in defense of their country to serve your political agenda. That is despicable.

Calling the job these soldiers did ,
sad, ludicrous, comically tragic afternoon on the US aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln,


is a horrible thing to do even if you don't agree with the war.

I served during Viet Nam, good men died and and those who survived were spit on and called all kinds of vile names. These are our sons and daughters, who offered up their lives in our service. Whether you agree with the powers in charge or not, you honor the kids who offer their lives for you.

Anyone who calls their service ludicrous , comical , etc in my book does not deserve the air they breath.

Those kids put up that sign, to pat themselves on the back for the job they did. Ridicule that, and your lower than dirt.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:58 am

Bro, I drive my dad to his VA appointments. I don't have to spit on those good men and women, our government was and is doing a good job of it on their own. I agree with you that our veterans deserve our respect and thanks. I give it to them when I can. But someone in your position can't accuse someone else of politicizing the war or our veterans, living or dead. It happens every day. They fight and sometimes die for our right to do so, don't they?

Thank you for your service. I mean it.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:10 am

ruben lopez wrote:Bro, I drive my dad to his VA appointments. I don't have to spit on those good men and women, our government was and is doing a good job of it on their own. I agree with you that our veterans deserve our respect and thanks. I give it to them when I can. But someone in your position can't accuse someone else of politicizing the war or our veterans, living or dead. It happens every day. They fight and sometimes die for our right to do so, don't they?

Thank you for your service. I mean it.
Your welcome.

Those kids put up that sign, its message was about the job done by the soldiers on that ship. It was about their mission which they did accomplish.

When the truth does not serve our cause, we are not allowed to spit on soldiers to further our political agenda.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons why America is not all that popular in the world today. To many people would rather spread lies than truth. Doing that is not going to lead anywhere good.

I am quite sure that nmblum has absolutely no clue that what she said is wrong. She believes the lie, and bases her opinions on it. The reason she believes the lie, is because the lie was spread far and wide by the media.

It is not just an individual person who spits on these soldiers and the job they accomplished, it is everyone in the press who fill peoples heads with these lies.

Exactly where are we going when lies are our companion? Is that the road to peace among men, and prosperity?

If you are anyone else did not like Bush, and your reasons are sound, then shoot him down with the truth. If you do you will not find me defending him. You will not alienate everyone who has respect for truth. They will agree with you.

But to do it with lies, separates and divides people from people. It leads to strife and conflict. It is lies such as this one that has divided our country and the people in it from each other. It is lies that are dividing the world, and leading to war. Peace and good will are not going to be the product of lies.

If we do not stand for truth together, we will end up killing each other.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:22 am

Don't forget that the reason those boys were there in the first place was because Bush sent them to remove the weapons of mass destruction Sadam Hussein had.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:32 am

ruben lopez wrote:Don't forget that the reason those boys were there in the first place was because Bush sent them to remove the weapons of mass destruction Sadam Hussein had.
I do not want to leave the point at hand and jump off into a lengthy distraction from the simple point.

Those troops put up that sign, to congratulate them selves on the job they did.

It is a fact, it is the truth. To turn it into something it was not, is ignoring the truth, and is spitting in their face.

The truth cannot be argued with and should not be misrepresented.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:39 am

My point is that the war and unfortunately our soldiers have always been politicized for gain. I don't like it when either side does it, but I have to be my own filter and separate what I see and read for myself. I may see or read things I don't like or agree with, but ultimately, I decide what stays and what goes. That concept is what many people in this country seem to not understand.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:45 am

ruben lopez wrote:My point is that the war and unfortunately our soldiers have always been politicized for gain. I don't like it when either side does it, but I have to be my own filter and separate what I see and read for myself. I may see or read things I don't like or agree with, but ultimately, I decide what stays and what goes. That concept is what many people in this country seem to not understand.

There is an old saying: The truth is not known until all have spoken. Sometimes we discover the truth because people speak lies, as we then know the truth about them.

My observation is this. When a lie such as this one, can grow legs and run all over the world, making its way into peoples conscious belief system, were in big trouble.

I cannot find any logic with which to conclude that when people believe lies in mass, this will lead to peace and good will among men.

Man kind moves forward and into the land of success because he is able to discern reality and act accordingly.

People who say they are against war and are promoting peace, while spreading lies, are delusional. They are only fooling themselves.

They might as well tell themselves that they can grow a plush garden by dumping toxic waste on it.

Truth / reality is not just another option that we can afford to ignore. Not unless we want to end up miserable in poverty and conflict.

The art of creating perceptions may be entertaining, and it may gain us power in the short term, but in the long term we still cannot afford to ignore reality.

To me it is the simplest thing in the world. You can't build anything by applying lies. Not people, not a car, not a bridge, a nation, or a world. Absolutly nothing can be done by applying beliefs that are false.

Not having respect for truth, is in fact saying , I want to self destruct, I want to destroy, I want hate, I want war, but they will not be able to put up a sign saying mission accomplished. There will be nothing left this time around.

Man as moved past the stage of affording himself the luxury of being bigoted as he has the capacity to destroy himself. If we keep on with the lies, it is only a matter of time.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:28 am

You said:
To me it is the simplest thing in the world. You can't build anything by applying lies. Not people, not a car, not a bridge, a nation, or a world. Absolutly nothing can be done by applying beliefs that are false.
You can build a war. You can build opposition to your enemy. You can build a fortune. You can build a future in politics. You can build Gods and create religions. You can create fear. You can do lots of things.

We will always agree that the truth needs to be given a voice. We will always agree that people distort the truth. We will always agree it is sad. So we seek our own.Then we differ on opinions over what is true.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:49 am

'

Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.

.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:57 am

'
--"Why, I was a-thinking, sir, returned Mark, "that if I was a painter, and was called upon to paint the American Eagle how should I do it?"

--"Paint it as like an Eagle as you could, I suppose."

--"No," said Mark. That wouldn't do for me, sir. I should want to draw it like a Bat, for its short-sightedness; like a Bantam, for its bragging; like a Magpie, for its honesty; like a Peacock, for its vanity; like an Ostrich, for its putting its head in the mud, and thinking nobody sees it--"

--"And like a Phoenix, for its power of springing from the ashes of its faults and vices, and soaring up anew into the sky!" said Martin. "Well, Mark, let us hope so."

---Charles Dickens, Martin Chuzzlewit, 1844

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:13 pm

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/ ... FORM=VIRE3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:17 pm

numan wrote:'

Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.

.
A quote is someones opinion.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:30 pm

What makes the new arrival (in America) devoted to this country is the democratic trait among the people. No one humbles himself before another person or class. . .
Albert Einstein
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:09 pm

rrichar911 wrote:There is a difference between constructive criticism and ridicule. I don't know of any American that objects to the former, or any person who does not object to the latter.


And then there are low life scumb sucking liars. Like this one.
when George W. Bush, playing Air Force Officer as well as Commander in Chief, of the American Armed Forces, announced "Mission Accomplished," and the effective end of the war against Iraq.... the date being May 3, 2003..
That don't care about facts or reality, but use any lie they can dream up to further their cause.

Why is the above statement a lie? Only the abjectly ignorant who have no respect for truth, would not know.

As far as I am concerned, anyone who spreads such lies has no honor, no decency, and is the reason the world is headed for pain and misery. Lies do not lead to peace or prosperity, their intent is destruction.

They are the scum of humanity, not much higher on the evolutionary pole than a cock roach.

That sign was not put up there by President Bush. It was put up by the crew of the ship as their mission had been accomplished and they were headed home, a job well done.
Well now.. rrichar911 that was, a most colorful tirade!!!
Although next time, please don't hesitate to actually mention my name because, I think, it tells readers much more about you than it does about me... especially those readers who might have been on earth, AND sober, AND watching television, on May 3, 2003 to see George W. Bush dressed in the costume of a leader of men, put an "end" to the war against Iraq... "Mission (whatever it was and is) Accomplished."

But may I remind you that although your own opinions so forthrightly and without embarrassment put forth here are not quite up there with the musings of Thomas Jefferson, (although it is easy to see the emotional and geographical connection with George W. Bush) I have refrained from calling you names that would call any attention to any possible connection with vermin... in fact it has never occurred to me
to do so.
And I hope it never does... I am aware that the lamina of what we think of as civilization is thin enough on all of us.
Your opinions are your opinions and your manner of presenting them is yours as well: it is not, nor has it ever been my intention to stymie your creativity.

AND if it is your considered judgment, as with all your other judgments that I am the scum of the earth.... then I accept that.
From whence it comes.
But three things do occur, and although it might ignite your further tendency to burn with (questionably) righteous indignation when I share them with you, what the hell, in for "scumb" in for "worse scumb" whatever that is;
1) Under normal circumstances, Presidents of these United States, (and that includes George Washington in his time ) normally would not and do not themselves climb up on scaffolding to put up banners extolling their "missions accomplished."

Just as Presidents who make destructive AND feckless, pointless wars, do not actually themselves face the wrath of the enemy, real or imagined, OTHERS ALWAYS DO IT FOR THEM.

(Neither Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson nor Nixon, ever set foot in Vietnam. OR for that matter in Laos or Cambodia either...)

If a student is asked by a teacher to put up a banner reading "George W. Bush was responsible for the sullying of America" that student is not responsible for either the act OR the words: the teacher is, and should bear the brunt of any recriminations, no matter who makes them.
None of the above is in any way intended to deflect your admirable if misplaced defense of the George W. Bush who is obviously in your mind an equally admirable, even perhaps heroic figures.
A boy should always have heroes.

2) Cockroach is one word, but I appreciate your intended kindness: the charming, voluable, but poor typist, "archy" of Don Marquis is one of my favorite characters in literature.
(Although I have always suspected, even before this epistolary moment that you would step on me without a moment's hesitation IF YOU COULD.)

But those frivolities aside, and most important as well as serious:
3) I do believe, and always have, that given the service and sacrifices of those who actually bear the brunt of military service, that the government (in this case represented by the Veterans Administration) MUST do all it should and could have on your... all veterans' ... behalf and if special taxes have to be required to cover such costs, so be it...
Many of you, who are the real victims of societal inequities, need much more, in fact ALL that can be given before any other considerations.
Veterans (and I don't know a single critic or vociferous demonstrator against the Vietnam War, that thinks differently) should have been rewarded with the best in medical, physical and mental, treatment that the world affords, with state-of-the-art hospitals, the finest practitioners, unquestioned chronic care, and generous pensions...
For in the end, and tragically enough to melt the hardest heart and send blood curdling cries of anguish to the heavens, I doubt that there is anything that can or ever will make up for the terrible damage done in the process of creating death and destruction, to all of us as it turns out , but especially to you..

Norma Manna Blum
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:18 pm

numan wrote:'

Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.

.
LOL..
That's your opinion.. and although it is elegantly expressed, it could be polished up to make a bit more sense.
A Forum like this, after all, is not designed to be a compendium of quotes from elsewhere, but for people to express themselves... Occasionally perhaps using quotations to do so.. but for the most part to refer to their own responses to ideas... and ... AND the opinions of others.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:21 pm

rrichar911 wrote:
numan wrote: Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.
A quote is someones opinion.
~Me
Then please get it published in a book before bringing it up here. There are plenty of other threads on which you can express your own cleverly crafted thoughts.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Blacksamwell » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:26 pm

numan wrote:
rrichar911 wrote:
numan wrote: Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.
A quote is someones opinion.
~Me
Then please get it published in a book before bringing it up here. There are plenty of other threads on which you can express your own cleverly crafted thoughts.
.
Does posting my statement here qualify it as "published"?

Are utterances of fictional characters allowable?

Exactly what are the requirements?

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Blacksamwell » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:30 pm

numan wrote:There are plenty of other threads on which you can express your own cleverly crafted thoughts.
So this thread is only for regurgitating other people's thoughts?

Isn't that what you've been doing here all along? How is your participation in this thread any different?

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:31 pm

numan wrote:
rrichar911 wrote:
numan wrote: Please try to confine yourself to quotations, rather than stating your own opinions---no matter how cogent and elegantly expressed they may be.
A quote is someones opinion.
~Me
Then please get it published in a book before bringing it up here. There are plenty of other threads on which you can express your own cleverly crafted thoughts.
.
If you wish to curtail the freedom of speech of others, please start your own forum and moderate it yourself.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:34 pm

Blacksamwell wrote:Are utterances of fictional characters allowable?
"The Force is strong with this one" ~~ Darth Vader

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:41 pm

ruben lopez wrote:You said:
To me it is the simplest thing in the world. You can't build anything by applying lies. Not people, not a car, not a bridge, a nation, or a world. Absolutly nothing can be done by applying beliefs that are false.
You can build a war. You can build opposition to your enemy. You can build a fortune. You can build a future in politics. You can build Gods and create religions. You can create fear. You can do lots of things.

We will always agree that the truth needs to be given a voice. We will always agree that people distort the truth. We will always agree it is sad. So we seek our own.Then we differ on opinions over what is true.

Yeah... but in the matter of George W. Bush... and the pathetic and tragic for all of us moment of "Mission Accomplished" the fact remains, simple, unadorned, inarguable, TRUE.
There are still... now... more than 7 years later, simply too many living witnesses, too many reels of film, too many feet of newsprint, too many still photographs, and the memories of too many school children treated to that grand and glorious, and unforgettable moment of pseudo-history in the making.

If the best that poor rrichar911 can come up with is that George himself did not with his own hands attach the banner "Mission Accomplished " to the side of the aircraft carrier, that is in itself a kind of admission of the shame of the moment.
And it stands here in his own words.

I'm not sure what excuse he has come up with for the actual words uttered by George W. on that humiliating, shamefully dishonest day.... rrichar911 never has referred to the fantastical and unworthy of American speech, which is, by the way, available for anyone (including rrichar911) interested in actually reading for themselves:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/ ... 1946.shtml

Odd, how it hurts and embarrasses even now, more than 7 years later...as if the shame, the arrogance, the dishonesty of it will, like the biblical mark of Cain for the religious, go on forever.


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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:00 pm

'
rrichar911 wrote:
What makes the new arrival (in America) devoted to this country is the democratic trait among the people. No one humbles himself before another person or class. . .
Albert Einstein
In reply, I would quote the grandson of a well-known US Senator:

"Americans are very, very cringing before the authority and publicity of big money."
---Gore Vidal

Also, you have quoted Einstein very much out of context. The line occurs in an essay entitled, "The Negro Question."

Needless to say, the tenor of the essay is hardly complimentary.

Einstein's mature views about America may be represented by these quotes:

"I hardly ever felt as alienated from people as I do right now.... the worst is that nowhere is there anything with which one can identify. Brutality and lies are everywhere."
---Letter, 15 July 1950, about the McCarthy era

"I have become a kind of enfant terrible in my new homeland because of my inability to keep silent and swallow everything that happens here."
---Letter to Queen Elizabeth of Belgium, 28 March 1954

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Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:04 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote: If you wish to curtail the freedom of speech of others, please start your own forum and moderate it yourself.
I cannot force others to respect the topic of a thread, but a gentleman and a scholar would do so.

.
Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Aztexan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:10 pm

"Can we falsely attribute sayings and just flat-out make {!#%@} up or do we limit that to threads about 9/11?"--ruben lopez
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:32 pm

What has turned out to be more interesting about Einstein, surpassing even the fact of his role as "father" of modern physics by virtue of the seminal paper that won for him the Nobel Prize in physics, and the fame and prestige that allowed him to come to America and become of fixture and symbol of American generosity when so many others, anonymous and less fortunate failed to make the cut with fatal results ... is that he has become all things to all people: anyone and everyone, here, there and everywhere will quote him with apparent admiration (that challenges everything else they seem to stand for) at the drop of a need for a defense of whatever they are selling.
His words as likely to appear in an NRA fund raising brochure (or, who knows ???... maybe even a KKK recruiting broadside) as they were to appear in justifications for dropping the A-bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Certainly it has now been established by a number of respectable biographers (Walter Isaacson with "Einstein: His Life and Universe" being the latest) that personally (as in his domestic relationships) Einstein was certainly no "Mr. Nice Guy," and not exactly the avuncular figure with the wild hair, sandals and shabby sweater, playing Schubert on his violin.
You know, the one that is his current image beneath the banner of "God does not play dice with the Universe..." that favorite of the anti-Darwin Creationists, who have no idea of who Einstein was or what he was talking about..
But doesn't mean that he wasn't entitled to his opinions... AND, more to the point... to defending his point of view as well as his own vision of what the country should be... as a citizen (which he was) of the United States of America...
And certainly he is not, especially now in death, responsible for who chooses to use his words as a scientist, philosopher or noted citizen for their own purposes, or to conform their own misunderstandings of the way the world works, societally or by the laws of physics.
The thoughtless, the ill-informed, the manipulative, the crazies, abound..as they always have.
Einstein isn't responsible for any of them or the now industry of taking his words out of context to defend sometimes less than admirable points of view.


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" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:36 pm

'
Isn't it interesting that no one as yet (except myself), has posted an accurate quotation that contains praise for Americans and their country?

Is it because everyone here is illiterate and does not know anything, good or bad, which has been written about America?

.
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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:41 pm

numan wrote:'
rrichar911 wrote:
What makes the new arrival (in America) devoted to this country is the democratic trait among the people. No one humbles himself before another person or class. . .
Albert Einstein
In reply, I would quote the grandson of a well-known US Senator:

"Americans are very, very cringing before the authority and publicity of big money."
---Gore Vidal

Also, you have quoted Einstein very much out of context. The line occurs in an essay entitled, "The Negro Question."

Needless to say, the tenor of the essay is hardly complimentary.

Einstein's mature views about America may be represented by these quotes:

"I hardly ever felt as alienated from people as I do right now.... the worst is that nowhere is there anything with which one can identify. Brutality and lies are everywhere."
---Letter, 15 July 1950, about the McCarthy era

"I have become a kind of enfant terrible in my new homeland because of my inability to keep silent and swallow everything that happens here."
---Letter to Queen Elizabeth of Belgium, 28 March 1954

.
The thing about a huge (and rich and incredibly heterogenous ) country is that like the elephant in the parable of the blind men, one can say anything about it and still hit the mark.... more or less closely.
America has warts... there is no doubt.. and saying so doesn't make anyone less patriotic than either the mindless jingoists that pop up in Congress (to make us blush with shame as well as endanger our lives) or celebrants who wallow in their too many beers at Fourth of July picnics.
Where does it say. ... even in the Bible that tries to instill in us unquestioning obedience to bad ideas... that there is a virtue in being blind?
Blindness is a debility, worthy of compassion, of empathy, not the object of desire, of imitation....
As is defiant ignorance.

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Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:47 pm

numan the troll™ wrote:Isn't it interesting that no one as yet (except myself), has posted an accurate quotation that contains praise for Americans and their country?

Is it because everyone here is illiterate and does not know anything, good or bad, which has been written about America?
Nope. But thanks for tipping your hand about your agenda in starting this thread.

In another thread, I posted a youtube speech from a famous Canadian broadcaster in praise of America. Do I need to repost it here to satisfy some lame requirement by you to avoid being falsely accused of illiteracy?

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by nmblum88 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:49 pm

numan wrote:'
Isn't it interesting that no one as yet (except myself), has posted an accurate quotation that contains praise for Americans and their country?

Is it because everyone here is illiterate and does not know anything, good or bad, which has been written about America?

.
No... it's not interesting...but be aware: in your role as leader of men, you might find even your own words quoted on behalf of an idea that is anathema to you.
That DOES happen.

But while I may indeed be illiterate (literacy, as with so much in America has become measured as relative , as with you versus other posters here ) and may have missed some responses, I don't think everyone agreed to post quotations.

I didn't.
Although I might avail myself of the right to do so, with or without your remonstrance , as in that oft heard quotation of quotations " IT'S A FREE COUNTRY!!..."

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Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:08 pm

Just for numan:

"It's a great day for America, everybody!"
~~Craig Ferguson, famous TV personality originally from Scotland and who is now an American citizen.

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by numan » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:33 pm

'
Thank you, Xouper, that is quite acceptable.

Though it would far better if there were some context for it, and if it were a quotation from a person who is more universally known as a thoughtful, educated commentator.

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Neither man nor woman can be worth anything until they have discovered that they are fools. This is the first step toward becoming either estimable or agreeable---and until it is taken, there is no hope.

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by xouper » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:03 pm

numan wrote:Though it would far better if there were some context for it, and if it were a quotation from a person who is more universally known as a thoughtful, educated commentator.
Quit moving the goalposts, numan.

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Blacksamwell » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:21 pm

numan wrote:'
Thank you, Xouper, that is quite acceptable.

Though it would far better if there were some context for it, and if it were a quotation from a person who is more universally known as a thoughtful, educated commentator.

.
Wait... I thought the quote had to be published in a "book".

If someone is looking over my shoulder at this thread and they exclaim "That numan sure is a f**k-tard!"... Would that be an acceptable quote?

Oh, I see... They'd need to be universally known as thoughtful and educated.

So if any of the top 100 living geniuses happens to look over my shoulder and exclaim "That numan sure is a f**k-tard!"... Then THAT would be an acceptable quote?

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Re: QUOTES about America and Americans

Post by Jeff D » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:28 pm

"The United States is a nation of laws . . . badly written and randomly enforced."
-- Frank Zappa

"Is this a great country or what?"
-- Michael Keaton's character Bill Blazejowski in Ron Howard's 1982 film Night Shift
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