Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:15 pm

I started a long reply but then found this ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nes-brexit
... which explains it all very well. They bring a lot of work to down-at-heel areas.
So yes - the port itself is tariff-free but if the landed goods leave the designated free port area (other than by sea) then all tariffs apply.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:13 am

Brits calling the Trump regime "uniquely dysfunctional" seems like the washing machine calling the dryer "white."
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1U2081
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:03 am

Brit - singular, Tom. I'm sure that a lot of Brits think it, but only a complete idiot in that particular position would make such a comment. I suspect he may be recalled fairly quickly.

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:02 pm

Poodle wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:03 am
Brit - singular, Tom. I'm sure that a lot of Brits think it, but only a complete idiot in that particular position would make such a comment. I suspect he may be recalled fairly quickly.
Or someone who just can't hold it in anymore.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:31 pm

There is that.

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:21 pm

Those comments are rather helpful to Trump. Iran shot down a drone, and the response was muted. They could decide Trump is a paper tiger and they can do whatever they want. Having a hostile Brit ambassador saying Trump has no clear policy, could attack Iran at anytime, is useful.

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:08 pm

MikeN wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:21 pm
Those comments are rather helpful to Trump. Iran shot down a drone, and the response was muted. They could decide Trump is a paper tiger and they can do whatever they want. Having a hostile Brit ambassador saying Trump has no clear policy, could attack Iran at anytime, is useful.
I think we've already seen Trump's lack of control over his own forces. Some of his craziest requests have been ignored, such as increasing the US nuclear arsenal by 10X. There's no evidence that Trump has much ability to pull the strings of the "deep state."
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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:14 pm

Kim Darroch can say what he likes, its when he puts it in an email that can be read by those not privy to it that the problems start.
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:27 pm

Psychedelic Twitter...

Image
"We are still waiting for anyone to rebut the main theme of the article that the decode in question and the numbers it quoted perfectly match those in the Korherr report.

Until such a rebuttal comes to light and goes through peer review the article stands the test of time. And after 10 years since the article was published both Peter (Witte) and I have moved on to other research projects. "

AHF

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:28 am

The latest poll (and it IS only a poll) suggests that with Johnson as leader, the Conservatives would gain a 40-seat majority at the next general election, with zero seats going to the Brexit Party. With Hunt as leader, that projection changes to a defeat, the Labour Party becoming the largest party (although no overall majority) and some 30-odd seats for the Brexit Party.
That is being interpreted as Hunt not being believed about his ability or his will to take the UK out of the EU. I tend to agree with that interpretation.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:37 am

Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party and an oft-declared Leaver, has just announced that the Labour Party's official policy will now be to remain. He hasn't asked anyone ... he hasn't sent out any discussion documents ... he's just done it. And he's going to carry on being the leader, having now alienated and delighted every one of his party members in equal measure over the past year. His Deputy, Tom Watson (always a staunch Remainer) is looking extremely confused, but maybe this is his big chance (and he's a lot more astute and aware than is Corbyn and definitely NOT a fan of Momentum, the militant leftist group which ousted the old moderate lefties and installed the current shambles).

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 pm

If Boris finishes Brexit, then the Brexit Party won't be on the ballot in the next election.
If Brexit doesn't happen, then Tories are in trouble.

Are there any Remainers representing Brexit constituencies, or vice-versa?

Looking up, I see more than 400 of 650 constituencies supported Brexit, with a median of 54%.
Boris can use Brexit as leverage.

What I don't understand is how Tories are running the government with just 312 seats and 10 DUP.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:43 am

Yeah - it's strange ...
There are 650 seats in the House of Commons.
Sinn Fein (Irish Republicans) has 7 seats but does not attend Parliament, so those potential votes are dead, leaving 643 seats.
The Conservatives hold 318 seats, which is less than half of 643 so they do not hold an absolute majority,
The DUP holds 10 seats and has an agreement with the Conservatives to support them in Parliament in return for a "don't piss about with Northern Ireland" agreement,
So 643 - (318+10) = 315 ... so as long as the DUP supports the government, it cannot be defeated (but it really is 'only just').

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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:50 am

If they have 318 seats, then they have a majority with DUP. Wikipedia lists them at 312. Just checked Parliament lists them as well.
So the total is 322 out of 650, less than half.
You're telling me a couple Sinn Fein could show up in Parliament and bring down the government?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:07 pm

Theoretically, yes. But they'd have to take the oath of allegiance first, which would be a very difficult thing for a Sinn Fein politician to do.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:27 pm

Politicians would have a hard time lying huh? I think you've bought into one fairly obvious lie before any other subject comes up.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:19 pm

Here's the oath, bobbo ...
I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.
Sinn Fein is an Irish Republican organisation dedicated to Northern Irish secession from the UK and reunification with the Republic of Ireland. It's not simply a matter of lying - if they took the oath they would be absolute hypocrites and, of course, any anti-UK action after that would result immediately in expulsion from Parliament.
It's not as if a Sinn Fein member has too much choice in the matter, y'know?

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:21 am

Ha, ha Poodle. You keep arguing with Jokes. "Have you no decency ........ummm humor?"

My alternative was to quote the Quran where its righteous to lie to infidels. You know: good biblical underpinnings for the ends justify the means. Its actually a foundational element of existentialism that I think Sartre got wrong. aka: Of course I would lie, even under oath, to a Nazi.

((((I don't know/care if the Quran says that or if it is a corrupt teaching of some Imam. POINT IS: Many people feel totally justified in lying about certain issues. You Know: like Brexit............and then don't allow democracy to continue.)))))
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:53 am

I think you misunderstand, bobbo - it is not possible for a Sinn Fein member to lie about what Sinn Fein stands for because anyone who doesn't know that can simply look it up on Wikipedia. It's like a member of the Labour Party entering Parliament on a platform of screwing the working classes. It's Noddy Land.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:05 am

Tell a simple transparent lie that everyone who matters knows isn't the truth FOR THE PURPOSE of destroying Parliament? Are you saying Sinn Fein is that short sighted/unimaginative?

Ok........I'll admit its a close bet.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:27 pm

Oh dear! Here we go again. A number of EU officials, ably led by Michel Barnier, are presenting themselves as puzzled by the UK's approach. I mean - do they REALLY want to leave? I say this because, it appears, a number of UK officials are behaving as if said UK has already decided that it wants to leave the EU, and quickly.
This is a Groundhog Day nightmare.
HELLO, MICHEL!! **wave** **shout** **wave and shout at the same time whilst standing on one leg** **wave, shout, turn cartwheels, scream, write meaningful letters, get on telly, do absolutely anything to get through that particular pro-EU skull**. Yes? OK - we'd like to leave your cosy home for superannuated civil servants. Got it? Please? Pretty please!!
If nothing else, this continued brick wall approach to international agreements in the face of a rapidly decreasing feasibility window should demonstrate that a Remain position is not safe. In fact, it's f'ing stupid. It demonstrates perfectly how any negotiation with the EU would go. Take note, world - there are more logical ways to do your stuff.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:37 pm

Here's something which may interest you, M. Barnier ...

From the wonderful Wikipedia ...
US Nominal GDP: $19.39 trillion. US GDP (PPP): $19.39 trillion.
China Nominal GDP: $12.01 trillion. ...
Japan Nominal GDP: $4.87 trillion. ...
Germany Nominal GDP: $3.68 trillion. ...
UK Nominal GDP: $2.62 trillion. ...

... and France is two steps below that. Smell the coffee, M. Barnier. The EU, at one time a beautiful idea, has been completely devalued by eterrnal civil servants who think that procedure trumps common sense,

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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:41 pm

Poodle wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:37 pm
Here's something which may interest you, M. Barnier ...

From the wonderful Wikipedia ...
US Nominal GDP: $19.39 trillion. US GDP (PPP): $19.39 trillion.
China Nominal GDP: $12.01 trillion. ...
Japan Nominal GDP: $4.87 trillion. ...
Germany Nominal GDP: $3.68 trillion. ...
UK Nominal GDP: $2.62 trillion. ...

... and France is two steps below that. Smell the coffee, M. Barnier. The EU, at one time a beautiful idea, has been completely devalued by eterrnal civil servants who think that procedure trumps common sense,
Remember, if you will, when comparing the US with China, that government spending, even on counterproductive bureaucracy, is now counted as GDP.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:31 pm

Well, I wasn't doing that, Tom, but I take your point. However, China and the USA are both far and away larger than anything else. Thinking of Mr. Orwell's predictions for a tripartite world, we really don't want No. 3 on the horizon.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:38 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49001387

You will all, no doubt, note the ticket on which this woman is running. Green as green can be. Except the EU has, to date, been notoriously green-neutral.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:05 pm

Not long to go before it all starts again - the winner of the contest for the Conservative Party leadership will be announced on Tuesday.

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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:36 pm

Will It bring fish and ice packs?
.
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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:20 pm

Just in case you missed it.........tv said that the requirement for an ice pack with the smoked fish was a UK requirement......not an EU requirement and so after BREXIT.....the rule will be the same. Like Trump: lying in the most pernicious way...........................although, if it is a UK rule, it should be easier to change?

Always the missing piece: what was the rationale for icing smoked fish? Just a simple rule that easier to enforce given cheaters will cheat?
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Re: Brexit

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:13 am

Smoked and sealed. The cool packs are for the workers. :-P
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:38 am

Yes, he got that one totally wrong. The ice pack is for FRESH fish and it IS an EU regulation (although no-one in their right mind transports fresh fish without ice anyway). Smoked fish, being pretty well-preserved already, doesn't need an ice pack at all, even under EU diktat. Boris probably wouldn't know the difference between smoked and fresh fish. I can imagine he used the smoked version because it came wrapped in plastic so he didn't get smelly fingers.
It pales into insignificance in the face of the latest claim by Leo Varadkar that it is the UK which is insisting upon a hard border in Ireland. That's not just getting your info wrong - it's a calculated deceit. Tuesday approaches.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:44 pm

Yet more bare-faced lying. The UK and the EU agreed some time ago (I mentioned it in this thread somewhere) that EU citizens remaining in the UK and UK citizens remaining within the EU after Brexit would be retain their full rights, exactly as they were before Brexit. Michel Barnier, the Chief Liar for the EU Commission, has now decided that UK citizens remaining within the EU after Brexit will NOT retain their rights.
This is a charade which should be ended ASAP.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:14 am

Before it all erupts yet again under a new Prime Minister, just a reminder of the broad position ...
There has been no agreement whatsoever made between the EU and the UK. The so-called 'deal' to which the EU Commission keeps referring is not now nor ever has been a 'deal'. It was a discussion paper authored nominally by Theresa May to which the EU did not agree but to which they said they WOULD agree if it had the Irish backstop text included within it. Mrs May duly included the backstop arrangement as part of the text. That DOES NOT constitute an agreement in any shape or form - it was merely a textual amendment to a discussion document, and one which had to be approved by the EU Commission and by Parliament. It was approved by the EU Commission but was turned down flat THREE times in UK Parliamentary votes. There is, constitutionally, no way (short of the declaration of a State of Emergency) that a UK Prime Minister can accept such an agreement without the agreement of Parliament, and it was nothing but naive for Mrs May ever to think it would be acceptable to Parliament. It might become acceptable if the Commission was willing to put a strict time limit on such an arrangement, but they refuse to do so.
It is a matter of complete irrelevance how many times the Commission has since stated that there is an agreement to which they will not allow any further amendment - there is no such agreement. There is not even a slight odour of any such agreement.
There are two candidates for the Prime Ministerial contest due to end very shortly. Neither candidate will agree to the backstop arrangement described within what is still a discussion document. Either the backstop arrangement as currently described is removed from the discussion document or there will be no agreement at all and the UK will execute the default no-deal Brexit scenario on October 31st unless a very different proposal is received from the EU Commission.
Last edited by Poodle on Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:24 am

Poodle wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:44 pm
Yet more bare-faced lying...
This is a charade which should be ended ASAP.
Heaven forbid!

Why stop now?

The century is still young!
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:21 am

I still pin my hopes on October 31st, Tom.
To paraphrase Churchill ...
Now this is not the beginning. It is not even the end of the beginning. But it is, perhaps, the end of the end.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:21 pm

There is never an end. aka: Its unending.
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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:21 pm
There is never an end. aka: Its unending.
Such wisdom.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:14 pm

For those of you struggling with life's vicissitudes, here's a quotation from Boris Johnson ...
"My chances of being PM are about as good as the chances of finding Elvis on Mars, or my being reincarnated as an olive."
There's hope for us all.

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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:06 pm

Poodle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:14 pm
For those of you struggling with life's vicissitudes, here's a quotation from Boris Johnson ...
"My chances of being PM are about as good as the chances of finding Elvis on Mars, or my being reincarnated as an olive."
There's hope for us all.
I'd say both of those things happened in the multiverse.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Tom Palven » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:15 pm

Poodle wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:21 am
I still pin my hopes on October 31st, Tom.
Halloween?

Why not.

Seems as worthy a thing o pin one's hopes on as anything else, except maybe Guy Fawkes Day, Nov. 5.

Where the heck is an activist like Guy when you need him?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:38 am

Common sense is beginning to prevail. Boris Johnson's staff have been contacted by representatives of the German, French, Dutch, Belgian and Irish governments, reportedly to explore the possibilities of a deal between the UK and the EU. In particular, the Irish wish to explore the border/backstop arrangement. Note the absence of the EU Commission, who anyone would have thought would have been at the front of the queue.
Now why do such things, which absolutely had to be done, always take the full brinkmanship expression game before everyone does what everyone knew they had to do in the first place?