Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Where no two people are likely to agree.
User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Austin Harper » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:45 pm

Of course I find some of those things alarming, namely any of them in which people are condoning actions that infringe on the rights of others (ie, terrorist acts). I don't have a problem with people who think men should be able to have more than one wife, because I don't think the state should have a say in who has which partners, but I do disagree with the 39% of people polled that those wives should always obey their husbands. I also disagree with the 52% that do not believe that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, or that a teacher's sexual orientation matters.

I would like to reframe some of those statistics:
  • 66% would inform the police if they thought somebody they knew was getting involved with people who support terrorism in Syria
  • 96% do not sympathize with people who take part in suicide bombings
  • 96% do not sympathize with people who commit terrorist actions as a form of political protest.
  • 77% do not support the introduction of Sharia Law.
  • 68% condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet
Also, I don't think "sympathize with" is a good question for a poll because it could mean either "feel or express sympathy for" or "agree with a sentiment or opinion", which are very different.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Yes........very different in some aspects.......but VERY SUPPORTIVE of others. Thats the issue.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 am

Goody67 wrote:Do you think that a lot of Muslims in the countries of Europe, America, Australia, Canada, etc, want to just live peacefully and adhere to the values of those countries? You have got to be kidding me!
Yes. There are lots of Muslims, atheists, Hindus and Christians who want to live peacefully in western countries. Otherwise every Muslim, atheist, Hindu and Christian would be continuously rioting and blowing things up.

That's not happening is it


///////////

Goody67 are you the "Venerable Quantum Woo"? He was a member here and he also ran a website called "Citizen Warrior" that was anti-Islamic and wanted Muslims deported. He was American but pretended to be Australian.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

Where exactly in London did you live and where are these "magical no go zones"?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:53 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 am
Goody67 wrote:Do you think that a lot of Muslims in the countries of Europe, America, Australia, Canada, etc, want to just live peacefully and adhere to the values of those countries? You have got to be kidding me!
Yes. There are lots of Muslims, atheists, Hindus and Christians who want to live peacefully in western countries. Otherwise every Muslim, atheist, Hindu and Christian would be continuously rioting and blowing things up.

That's not happening is it


///////////

Goody67 are you the "Venerable Quantum Woo"? He was a member here and he also ran a website called "Citizen Warrior" that was anti-Islamic and wanted Muslims deported. He was American but pretended to be Australian.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

Where exactly in London did you live and where are these "magical no go zones"?
Cultural/Religious clashes occur quite apart from what "individual members" of the contesting groups think/desire/or even want to do. an example of the principle: I doubt that any first white immigrants to the Americas wanted to kill every Indian or wipe out their culture. But....how else could it have come out? same with about EVERY culture clash: get the numbers up high enough and what do you think is going to happen?

When any group is small enough, of course it wants peace so that it can grow to a size reasonably expected to be able to force its ways on the others. Hard to find any exceptions at all...never when there is an outside agitator that has some kind of affinity for the selected group and it wants more power.

Its the way of man.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Austin Harper » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:11 pm

This is what happens when people fall into Islamophobia.
The New York Times wrote:
Forty-nine people were killed in shootings at two mosques in central Christchurch, New Zealand, on Friday, in a terrorist attack that Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern described as “an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence.”
...
Before the shooting, someone appearing to be the gunman posted links to a white-nationalist manifesto on Twitter and 8chan, an online forum known for extremist right-wing discussions. The 8chan post included a link to what appeared to be the gunman’s Facebook page, where he said he would also broadcast live video of the attack.

The Twitter posts showed weapons covered in the names of past military generals and men who have recently carried out mass shootings.

In his manifesto, he identified himself as a 28-year-old man born in Australia and listed his white nationalist heroes.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:20 pm

My own quick read of his manifesto: not about Islam at all but rather an action against anyone "not white" which is rather ironic as an invader himself. But ain't that usually the case?

I read 3 pages, skimmed the rest in one minute.

Not covered I assume: where did this guy actually get his white superiority concern? Taught it in some skin head madrassas I assume. Let the contest of purity and fidelity wage on.

[Link removed by Pyrrho]
Last edited by Pyrrho on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed link to terrorist manifesto.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10695
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by landrew » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:10 pm

This headline would constitute hate-speech in some jurisdictions. There's no rational argument for disrespect.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:15 pm

The rational argument is the values espoused by Sharia Law. You know what is even more disrespectful?..................Wasting an education.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Goody67
Poster
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Goody67 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 am
Yes. There are lots of Muslims, atheists, Hindus and Christians who want to live peacefully in western countries. Otherwise every Muslim, atheist, Hindu and Christian would be continuously rioting and blowing things up.

That's not happening is it


///////////

Goody67 are you the "Venerable Quantum Woo"? He was a member here and he also ran a website called "Citizen Warrior" that was anti-Islamic and wanted Muslims deported. He was American but pretended to be Australian.
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

Where exactly in London did you live and where are these "magical no go zones"?
As usual, you take what I posted out of context.

Now you're ranting like a paranoid madman.

I don't need to tell you where I used to live in London (or if I ever did), my personal life is none of your business.

The no-go areas have already been discussed. If you have any doubts, Google will help you.
Last edited by Goody67 on Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:32 pm

given this is a forum for discussion of ideas, perhaps a better question to you landrew is in various forms:

1. Do you think the headline constitutes hate-speech?

2. If so, should any such discussions take place or be banned??

3. Is respect or disrespect even a subject that is open to rational argument or are those concepts centered on different issues?

4. Have you included any of the discussion points/facts brought forth earlier in this thread in your consideration for your non-specific whine or are you just going by the headline in a vacuum of context?

5. Or.......is the context the shooting that just took place in New Zealand .......that as I posted had almost nothing to do with being Muslim/Islamist per se which is about religion but rather was about establishing white racial superiority which is a race issue..........or do details like that make any difference when "respect" is thrown down on the table?

Hmmmmmm?
Last edited by bobbo_the_Pragmatist on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:33 pm

Goody = quibbling.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:51 am

Goody67 wrote: As usual, you take what I posted out of context.
No. You must have been distracted writting historical battles with Muslims, in white paint, on your hand guns.

It seems pretty obvious that the only no go area, is a "no-go" area for Muslims around your house. :lol: :lol:

Goody67 wrote: The no-go areas have already been discussed. If you have any doubts, Google will help you.
There aren't any. The Royal Post gets delivered to all areas in London, the gas meter man goes to all areas in London, the Police go to all areas in London.

You should stop taking notes listening to Anders Breivik and Brenton Tarrant :lol: :lol:

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:14 am

"Goody67" would have enjoyed the company of "Venerable Kwan Tom Woo", who shares his anti islamic claims and "No Go area" propaganda. VKTW voluntarily left the forum in 2017 out of embarrassment.. However he snuck back and changed his posting name to "Fab Yolis" on all his posts sometime in 2018 when I was overseas. VKTW left after I pointed out he was an American pretending to be an Australian on other forums, using the same VKTW name, while claiming "Make America Great Again" on our forum.

Re: The “Far-Right” fallacy /" Venerable Kwan Tom Woo" AKA "Fab Yolis"
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=27894&p=585360&hilit=islam#p585360

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27135
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by scrmbldggs » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 am

...There are lots of Muslims, atheists, Hindus and Christians who want to live peacefully in western countries...
And here's an article that mentions some.
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:15 am

Eggs: good supporting link for my main complaint against Muslims: they are no different than everyone else.

Aint that a boot to the head?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9890
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:52 am

Please do not post links to the New Zealand terrorists's videos, manifestos, or other content of his making. I will remove it immediately. I will not allow this forum to be used to amplify that atrocity by providing a channel for it.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:54 am

Fair enough. Just note: I rebuked it and assume most would. The guy is totally nuts and for me it was good to see what kind of nut he is. He really has nothing to offer. Pros and cons to all we do.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 9890
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:55 am

I don't care what your opinion was. I won't have that garbage here. I won't allow people like that to benefit from their atrocities by having their hatred spread even wider.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:56 am

Yes.......I support your position........as you say: not that it matters,
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10695
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by landrew » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:47 pm

One of the foundations of a free society is tolerance for other beliefs. The alternative is divisiveness and even violent conflict. History is full of that, but positive change does not come from violent conflict; it only breeds resentment and more violence. The civil war ended slavery, but it didn't end racism. The civil rights movement was mostly a peaceful one; there was no race war. Protestants and Catholics don't slaughter each other, as they once did for centuries. We've learned to tolerate each others' beliefs, and over time, we've started to think more alike.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:09 pm

thats a nice general platitude. Now: apply it to Sharia practicing/demanding Muslims.

Sharia: Sharia covers all aspects of human life. Classical Sharia manuals are often divided into four parts: laws relating to personal acts of worship, laws relating to commercial dealings, laws relating to marriage and divorce, and penal laws. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... ia_1.shtml

The Pew organization did a world wide study/poll on the attitude of Muslims and their support for IMPOSING their religion onto non-believers. The numbers are presented in many and various ways..........and to be honest........are hard to nail down. Page Two of this thread showed a chart that surprised many people as to the strength of this desire to subjugate non-believers but the link no longer displays. The Pew report is an interesting read and still available at http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... -overview/ There is a small paragraph of "How Do American Muslims Compare?" Right now: 63 % say there is no tension between being religiously devout and living in a modern society. Its only an implication that 37% believe the opposite.....and I don't know what tension means. I'd expect the first number to rise and the second to fall as American Muslims find the benefits of a free society? Thats our dream/what we tell ourselves.........and I think its true as long as radicals are not let in to corrupt the reasonable. EG: and this is funny/sad/indicative that people of a group tend to believe the most conservative/fundamentalist of any group: American Muslims are more likely than world wide Muslims to not believe in evolution. The American Fundy influence. Science and Liberty.....a combo plate not accepted by Fundy Religious types.

The point to emphasize once again is that while everyone should be free to "believe" whatever they want to....Sharia believers more than others also believe their religious beliefs should be forced on non-believers. That is a POLITICAL Act, more than a religious act. Sharia believing Muslims should not be invited into any non Sharia Country and think they are performing a liberal service: they are not. They are inviting in a belief system that seeks to destroy individual liberty............aka: Constitutional forms of government that separate government from religion, something all good Americans are supposed to support.

Amusing: everything comes down to how you define it.............and we rarely define our terms and concepts, and then even when we do, we continue to think and emote with little rigor given to those definitions.

HAH!===>I just saw one of our feral kitty cats pounce on a friendly cute gray tree squirrel. You see: all pets deserve an equal right to be loved by their owners, but once they are set free to exercise their more primal nature: they are a danger. Don't kid yourself that all kitty cats are the same.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Goody67
Poster
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Goody67 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:57 pm

Matthew Ellard has no argument so he just resorts to name calling. Pathetic.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:04 pm

Ha, ha..........no...........Matt doesn't resort to name calling. He starts with it. Stick around...............ignore the childish manner and he will sharpen your position.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:04 am

Goody67 wrote: Matthew Ellard has no argument so he just resorts to name calling. Pathetic.
No Goody67. You are a very upset white supremacist, who I caught lying three times in one day.

1) "Slade" is not an "original skinhead" band. It was a glam band who did a publicity stunt. ( I really laughed at you for that)
2) You cannot name one "no go" area for police in London. You simply spammed anti-Muslim propaganda.
3) You don't know what "economics" or "socialism" is, and you magically think WWII armies were raised by the free market.



Go back to Storm front. Even better go join the "Citizen Warrior" anti-Muslim forum. :lol: :lol:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27135
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:26 am

Matthew, it's a little tricky figuring him/her out, but Goody has been quite active in the (former) HD subforum. Positively. You might wanna check out the user's posts there. :)
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:36 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:26 am
Matthew, it's a little tricky figuring him/her out, but Goody has been quite active in the (former) HD subforum. Positively. You might wanna check out the user's posts there. :)
I already knew that and I had read them all. I think he's forgotten that I posted in that sub-forum when he recently posted his anti-Islam propaganda. I know he's a liar. :D

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 27135
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Location: sometimes

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:44 am

. :dil:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 pm

I thought I would search back for what the brass tacks of Matt v Goody might be. I'm thinking: are there no go zones in London? And my own thought was that such a concept is often heard and never true? So I made a google https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... eas+london and the first two hits out of 3 Billion agreed with me and I almost stopped.....but then the next couple of hits described the no go zones that delivery drivers were concerned about.

Then it hit me.

Same as it always is: how do you define a "no go zone."

Pick your definition, and you pick your answer. .............. LIKE ALWAYS.

Next issue.............
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Goody67
Poster
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Goody67 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:05 pm

No Goody67. You are a very upset white supremacist,
Provide evidence for that absurd accusation.
who I caught lying three times in one day.

1) "Slade" is not an "original skinhead" band. It was a glam band who did a publicity stunt. ( I really laughed at you for that
I was referring to a famous band who adopted the skinhead image and were not Nazis.
2) You cannot name one "no go" area for police in London. You simply spammed anti-Muslim propaganda.
Learn to read. I have posted areas.

I have not spammed any "anti-Muslim propaganda".

You are in no position to accuse someone of lying when you have made lies about that person several times.

For example, you posted in the Brexit thread:
Yes I hate Nazis in the anti-holocaust denial forum. You stick up for skinheads and hate all Muslims.
I questioned you about the claim:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29850&start=760#p702379

No surprise that you have not responded to it.
3) You don't know what "economics" or "socialism" is, and you magically think WWII armies were raised by the free market.
I do and that is why I laugh at tossers like you who claim to be socialists.

I never even said that, I asked you to tell me how WWII is an example of the alleged failures of a free market. However, since you're such a shady person, you have tried to turn it around and have made up some BS story.
]Go back to Storm front. Even better go join the "Citizen Warrior" anti-Muslim forum. :lol: :lol:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/
Do you always behave like that towards anyone who doesn't agree with your views?

It says quite a bit about your character. In simple terms, you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:00 pm

OK, so the tack is (no go zones for police london).

Even Snopes weights in on that one:

FACT CHECK: Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones? - Snopes.com
https://www.snopes.com › Fact Check › Politics

Claim: A number of localities in the United States, France, and Britain are considered Muslim "no-go zones" (operating under Sharia Law) where local laws are not...
Fact check by Snopes.com: False

............................................................. Let's not quibble over the authority of Snopes?
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Matthew Ellard
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 30516
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am
Custom Title: Big Beautiful Bouncy Skeptic

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:36 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:No Goody67. You are a very upset white supremacist,
Goody67 wrote:Provide evidence for that absurd accusation.
You are spamming the anti-Muslim propaganda that there are "no go" areas in London...........but can't name one of them.

//////////////////////////////////
Matthew Ellard wrote: "Slade" is not an "original skinhead" band. It was a glam band who did a publicity stunt. ( I really laughed at you for that
Goody67 wrote:I was referring to a famous band who adopted the skinhead image and were not Nazis.
Slade dressed up as skins as a publicity stunt. They were a glam band. You haven't got a clue who Slade is do you? :lol: :lol:

///////////////////////////
Matthew Ellard wrote:2) You cannot name one "no go" area for police in London. You simply spammed anti-Muslim propaganda.
Goody67 wrote: Learn to read. I have posted areas.
You wrote France and London and the police go to France and London, you complete moron. :lol: :lol:

////////////////////////////
Matthew Ellard wrote:3) You don't know what "economics" or "socialism" is, and you magically think WWII armies were raised by the free market.
Goody67 wrote: I do and that is why I laugh at tossers like you who claim to be socialists.
Nope. You didn't even know progressive taxation scales are a form of socialism. You don't know anything. You are just another right wing idiot like Tom Palven. :lol: :lol:

mack_10
Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:30 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by mack_10 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:23 am

Islam

Once upon a time..
I met a man who told me he stopped being a muslim when he was nine, the day he had to watch his mother being stoned to death for the crime of being raped by the man who lived next door. She made the mistake of reporting it, the shariah court asked her to produce four male witnesses, unrelated to her, who would testify on her behalf that she had been raped, as requuired by shariah law. The court asked the rapist if he had raped her, he said "no she was willing" they asked him if he knew she was married, he said "no", they told him he could go, he had committed no sin.
She, on the hand, was married and had sex with a man who was not her husband, they had no choice they sentenced her to be stoned to death as required by the quran/koran.

I did not know what islam was, I thought it was just another ridiculous religion.
I downloaded a copy of the quran/koran and read it, it is a short book, 50 pages
I could not believe it, I thought it was a fake posted on-line to discredit islam
I got another copy from a muslim website, it was the same
It is the single most horrific thing I have ever read, pure xenophobia
Over and over "non-muslims are the worst of criminals, lower then animals, that deserve to burn"
Moderated muslims say that means "burn in hell forever" not nice; jihadists say it means "burn alive"

So I wondered "who was muhammad"?
I went to wikipedia
Historically muhammad was a 7th century warlord
He killed men by cutting their throats while they slept
He raped women
He enslaved children
He stole all their stuff and lied about it
He was a sadist, cut men's throats, beheaded others, burnt people alive, drowned people in cages
When captive women refused to have sex with him, he had them tied to camels and torn apart
This is islam's perfect human being

Doubt me please, download the quran/koran and read it, go to wikipedia and read the historical account of his life ( be quick the muslims are demanding the right to "edit" the page)
But before you defend islam again find out what you are defending

In every population, regardless of race or gender, approximately 5% of that population are sociopaths.

Sociopaths do not see other people as people.
Sociopaths see people as objects, to be used, to be abused and to be discarded.

The trouble with Islam is that the Quran is interpretted by sociopaths as justification for behaving the way they want to behave.

Again the quran literally states that non-muslims are the worst of criminals, the lowest form of life, who deserve to burn. Moderates interpret "burn" as "burn in hell forever", sociopaths interpret it as "burn alive"

For 1400 years, sociopaths have been using Islam as justification for killing non-muslim men, raping non-muslim women, enslaving non-muslim children and stealing all their possessions. It is not a religion, it is the philosophy of a 7th century warlord - look it up

User avatar
Goody67
Poster
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Goody67 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:36 am
]You are spamming the anti-Muslim propaganda that there are "no go" areas in London...........but can't name one of them.

//////////////////////////////////
I did name the places.

Since when was Muslim a race? Since when did criticising Islam and the Islamification of areas equate to white supremacy?

As per usual, you are full of nonsense.
Matthew Ellard wrote:"Slade" is not an "original skinhead" band. It was a glam band who did a publicity stunt. ( I really laughed at you for that ]Slade dressed up as skins as a publicity stunt. They were a glam band. You haven't got a clue who Slade is do you? :lol: :lol:

///////////////////////////
I've answered that false allegation several times.

viewtopic.php?p=702826#p702844

I never even referred to Slade as an "original skinhead" band.

My first post about Slade was:
I was referring to traditional skinheads, you know like the members of Slade were once upon a time.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=29850&start=760

Do you have reading comprehension problems? I was quite clearly making reference to a group who had adopted the skinhead image and were not Nazis. However, like most of my posts which you quote me, you deliberately take things out of context and make up lies about me.

So stop repeating yourself and try to understand that I was referring to skinheads from back in the day who were not interested in politics.
Matthew Ellard wrote:You wrote France and London and the police go to France and London, you complete moron. :lol: :lol:

////////////////////////////
Define a "no-go area".
Matthew Ellard wrote:3) You don't know what "economics" or "socialism" is, and you magically think WWII armies were raised by the free market.Nope. You didn't even know progressive taxation scales are a form of socialism. You don't know anything. You are just another right wing idiot like Tom Palven. :lol: :lol:
Rinse, repeat.

Do you have autism? You are constantly repeating yourself.

You were the one who mentioned WWII. I am still waiting for you to explain how WWII or an army is a failure of a free market.

You referenced a proposed temporary policy which included capitalism and free market, hence why private property and profit were allowed to exist.

As the Encyclopædia Britannica states:
New Economic Policy (NEP), the economic policy of the government of the Soviet Union from 1921 to 1928, representing a temporary retreat from its previous policy of extreme centralization and doctrinaire socialism. The policy of War Communism, in effect since 1918, had by 1921 brought the national economy to the point of total breakdown. The Kronshtadt Rebellion of March 1921 convinced the Communist Party and its leader, Vladimir Lenin, of the need to retreat from socialist policies in order to maintain the party’s hold on power.
Thus, what you referenced was not even about implementing socialism.

You trying to claim that someone doesn't know anything is like the pot calling the kettle black! You are just another left-wing tosspot who claims to be a "socialist", when in fact you don't know what you're talking about at all.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:16 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:23 am
Define a "no-go area".
Why don't you define it, since you're the one claiming they exist?
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

User avatar
landrew
True Skeptic
Posts: 10695
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:51 am

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by landrew » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:19 pm

There are no official "no-go" areas, only de facto ones.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

User avatar
Goody67
Poster
Posts: 446
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Goody67 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:16 pm
Why don't you define it, since you're the one claiming they exist?
Because it appears that a few people on here are claiming that the claim is just "propaganda", so I want to know the definition of a "no-go area" those people are using to dismiss the claim that such places exist.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:53 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:16 pm
Why don't you define it, since you're the one claiming they exist?
Because it appears that a few people on here are claiming that the claim is just "propaganda", so I want to know the definition of a "no-go area" those people are using to dismiss the claim that such places exist.
Total hogwash. YOU made the claim. Back it Up.====>No SNIPE HUNTS allowed.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 34746
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: prostrate spurge
Location: Transcona

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Gord » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:58 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:23 am
Since when was Muslim a race?
Since racists starting hating Muslims.

People can't agree on what makes a group of people a race. Generally it comes down to how they appear, behave socially, and congregate together. When we perceive one group as different, we can claim they are a race. That's why in the past there have been people who spoke about the blue-eyed race, the left-handed race, and even the American race. If you hate a group of people who all fall into a category that can be defined as a race under such vague definitions, then you can be called a racist. Even a cult of people who shave their heads and wear robes can be and has been called a race; when outsiders investigated more closely, they even differentiated the members into other races.

Don't hate groups of people based on how they look, behave socially, and congregate together.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 18590
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: After being pimped comes-----

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:10 pm

While I assume I agree with what you "mean": certainly the best reason, if not the only reason, to hate a group of people is how they behave socially? Lets see: yes...........I hate soccer fans. Totally based on their behavior. or litterbugs too.
Real Name: bobbo the contrarian existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Austin Harper
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5503
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit

Re: Islam Does Not Deserve Respect-Muslims a closer question

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:36 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:48 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:16 pm
Why don't you define it, since you're the one claiming they exist?
Because it appears that a few people on here are claiming that the claim is just "propaganda", so I want to know the definition of a "no-go area" those people are using to dismiss the claim that such places exist.
We're assuming you meant the commonly understood definition that it's areas where the police won't go to enforce laws. Those areas clearly don't exist, since you can't give any examples of them. I was trying to give you the opportunity to give a different definition if you're using one, but you refused and instead asked me to provide one.

In the latest episode of The Thinking Atheist, host Seth Andrews tells the story of British ex-Muslim Jimmy Bangash, and then in the second half of the episode, they have a discussion. Here is a relevant part of the conversation runinng from 57:53 to 1:06:33.
The Thinking Atheist wrote:
What They Don’t Know Won’t Kill Me: One Man’s Secret in the Shadow of Islam
Seth: Jimmy, can I ask you about the rise of the Muslim faith and Muslim communities in the UK? One of the major criticims that we hear, and I'd like somebody on the inside to validate it or refute it if it's wrong, but these microcosms exist and they wish to exist under their own set of laws, Sharia law or whatever, meaning that they almost operate as an independent nation within the UK or they at least seek to do so, to not have to operate by the rules of the rest of society. Is that accurate?
Jimmy: So, I think there's been some, over in the States and across the world, there's some perceptions that there are classified no-go zones where the police can't go into and non-Muslims can't go into and I do think that's hyperbolic. So, there's not really anywhere I would say to any of my atheist or non-Muslim friends, "Oh, don't go to that area, you'll get in trouble or you'll get beaten up" or anything like that. Within the UK I don't know where, within the UK I can speak for, there is no such area that I would suggest is like that you would get attacked or accosted for being a non-Muslim.
Seth: Are you seeing a of Islam in the UK?
Jimmy: Yes, so I am really pleased you asked this question, actually, Seth, because something has happened over the last few days over here. As much as I said that there's not no-go areas, there's a couple of things to remember: so, Muslims, just like any group of people are not a monolithic community, so you have gay Muslims, you have progressive Muslims, you have Quranist Muslims who reject hadith as they actually, a lot of that stuff in the hadith which is very archaic isn't accurate, but then you do have more conservative Muslims and I would suggest that they make up the bulk of the community within the UK so Channel 4, which is one of our television network providers, they did quite a robust and thorough poll across the UK and it was called What British Muslims Really Think [note: this is the poll you already cited] and it was organized through employing a statistician company to go out and do the field research and go into these communities and, you know, ask questions to a fixed number of questions and established answers, and some really interesting and appalling results came out of that poll, so one of those was the viewpoint of the Muslim community toward homosexuality. So 52% of British Muslims said that homosexuality should be criminalized. And you know, that's a really strong position to take, that it should be illegal, that people should face some sort of state punishment for being gay. And in addition to that, equally as alarming is 47% said that gay people shouldn't be allowed to be teachers in schools. So you know, you can imagine what that says about the Muslim community's perspective on gay individuals. To take this point back to your question, and this is why I highlight it, you asked about microcosms and this culture of multiculturalism where each culture is equitable and all of the ideas of each culture are equally valid, you know kind of that's the ethos of multiculturalism that we shouldn't tell people that their culture is wrong, so more lately we've had a school in Birmingham where the assistant head teacher is a gay man, a white gay man, and the community is predominantly Muslim, significantly so, right, not just by a small majority but significantly Muslim, and the gentleman, Mr. Moffat, the assistant head teacher, has introduced this program, I guess you could call it, which is called No One Is an Outsider, no one left behind, and the idea is that nobody is an outsider to the community, whether you're Muslim or Sikh, whether you're trans or whether you're bi or whether you're gay, whether you're black or whether you're white or whether you're South Asian, no one gets left behind nobody is an outsider within the community, and schools have started taking this program and using it to teach children in primary schools about tolerance and acceptance of others in the community. So what has happened now, we've seen this over the last couple of weeks start taking off, is there is a school in Birmingham where this assistant head teacher teaches, and Muslim parents are outraged by the teachings around LGBT in this program, and so what they're saying is actually "you're confusing our children". They've actually said this is a Muslim community and these teachings are against our faith. First 100 parents went and protested at the school. I think at the next protest there was 300 parents outside the school, including children that they brought with them. And you know, they said things like "you're spoiling our children's innocence, you're confusing our children". Some parents who were interviewed said they'd rather go back to Pakistan than have their children exposed to these messages, there were some allegations that teaching about LGBT was an infringement on the rights of their religious freedom. So in this way, we can see this microcosm that has developed which is trying to assert its own cultural norms above the culture norms of the UK. So there was another recent study that came out that said 68% of the UK population is ok with gay people, so it's almost 70%, Seth. If you had taken that measurement 20 years ago, when I was about 20 years old, that poll would have been the other way around, right. So 30% of people probably would have said it's ok to be gay, 70% would have said "no way". Now we've got to a point in society, in British society, which has been hard won by activists all across the UK, but within Muslim communities they are saying "actually, it's not ok to teach this". And it's important to understand what the No One Left Behind program does, it doesn't say "come and be gay", you know, because they're making accusations that there's some recruiting or prioritizing or drafting in of people to make children be gay. That's not what it's about. It's literally about gay people exist, some men have a husband and they might have a child, some women might have a wife and they might have a child who is in that family, so if you meet a kid in school who's got two moms or got two dads, this is not something to ostracize your fellow children about. If you meet somebody who's disabled, then that's not something to ostracize that person about, because no one should be left behind and there are no outsiders in our program. And the whole program is designed based on the UK's Equality Act, so in 2010 we had an Equality Act which feeds into employment law and it kind of gathered the different threads of employment discrimination, so disability, gender, religion, race, sexuality, and all of them and it brought them together into one act which we call the Equality Act. So the school program is based on that and it addresses race, religion, all these different facets that are enmeshed within UK law and seen as areas where people should not be discriminated against and it is decided to start instilling tolerance and this nondiscrimination at a very young age in children, so that when they grow up in to adults they don't go to undertake discriminatory practice, and also they are able to assert themselves. If you teach somebody that, you know, you're black but you shouldn't be treated as an outsider from when they are young, then when they suffer racism they are able to assert themselves because they understand that it's not the ethos of the society that they live in. But we see the Muslim community trying to push back at this and say "this isn't ok, it's infringing on our religious beliefs and you're promoting homosexuality and homosexual beliefs in our community and one of the ladies who's chief in organizing it, you know she's actually on camera saying, she's quoted as saying "this is a Muslim community." The idea that this is a Muslim community is just, it's almost irrelevant because actually you're living in a secular society. The wider society of the UK is secular, our laws are secular, whether you're Muslim community or not, or whether you're a Christian community or a Jewish community or Hindu community. It doesn't give you scope to inhibit the nation's ethos of tolerance.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.