Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am

Goody67 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:06 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:56 am
I hate to say this in a BREXIT thread - but how one feels is ones own problem and definately NOT the problem of others. If you don't want to feel a certain way, change yourself or in this case, move along.
How one feels is "definitely NOT the problem of others"? :? How one feels is down to both their own actions and other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - Brexiteers feel angry because of the way Remainers are behaving and the Remainers feel angry because of the way Brexiteers are behaving.
Are you a nematode only able to react to external stimulation? If human, then control your emotions. Simple. An exception might be physical pain, but even then many can block that too.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:03 pm

Feelings?===>No one cares.

but..................Feelings get tranmuted into thoughts and thoughts into ACTIONS. Then===>everyone cares.

Where to put that stitch?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:01 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:27 am
I enjoyed fighting the National Front and skinheads. They caused the violence. That's why I was arguing against you in the anti holocaust denial subforum.
Well I think that goes to say a lot about your character. You sound like a thug and no better than the NF skinheads.

Both the so-called anti-fascists and the NF skinheads caused the violence.
Yes it did. You weren't there. I was.
What did it solve?

You don't know anything about me. How do you know I was not there or witnessed any of it?
No. Tell us all about "poor skinheads suffering in their bover boots and braces" (Are you suggesting they are sad emotional people who went to SHAM69 gigs to hand out flowers?). :lol:

You are a rather old 52 year old, right wing skin head aren't you? :lol: :lol:

Ah, it didn't take you long to personally attack me - again, this speaks volumes about your character. I'm right-wing, but I've never been a skinhead.

I suspect you deliberately took what I said out of context. I was referring to traditional skinheads who get labeled as "Nazis" or "fascists" because the likes of the NF hijacked the skinhead image and when people see someone dressed as a skinhead then he or she is stereotyped like the pejoratives I mentioned.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am
Are you a nematode only able to react to external stimulation? If human, then control your emotions. Simple. An exception might be physical pain, but even then many can block that too.
You misunderstood my counter-argument.
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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:01 pm
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:27 am
I enjoyed fighting the National Front and skinheads. They caused the violence. That's why I was arguing against you in the anti holocaust denial subforum.
Well I think that goes to say a lot about your character. You sound like a thug and no better than the NF skinheads.

Both the so-called anti-fascists and the NF skinheads caused the violence.

That really nails it. Pure, mindless tribalism. Fighting for the sake of a fight.

Nothing good ever comes from street-fighting, left to fester long and far enough, nations fall apart, balkanize or fail. Cooler heads need to prevail, disarm and detain, get people talking to each other. We have the skills and the means to resolve conflicts; the evidence is the much smaller number of conflicts around the world.

Some people lose perspective and become embroiled in conflicts online that might otherwise land them in a jail cell or a psych ward.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:20 pm
That really nails it. Pure, mindless tribalism. Fighting for the sake of a fight.

Nothing good ever comes from street-fighting, left to fester long and far enough, nations fall apart, balkanize or fail. Cooler heads need to prevail, disarm and detain, get people talking to each other. We have the skills and the means to resolve conflicts; the evidence is the much smaller number of conflicts around the world.

Some people lose perspective and become embroiled in conflicts online that might otherwise land them in a jail cell or a psych ward.
I am looking forward to reading his response as to why the violence was justified, why he enjoyed it and in the end what it solved.

Quite often the self-proclaimed "anti-fascists" behave in a much more fascist way and are often more violent.

Whatever happened to a good debate?
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Re: Brexit

Post by landrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:59 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:56 pm
landrew wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:20 pm
That really nails it. Pure, mindless tribalism. Fighting for the sake of a fight.

Nothing good ever comes from street-fighting, left to fester long and far enough, nations fall apart, balkanize or fail. Cooler heads need to prevail, disarm and detain, get people talking to each other. We have the skills and the means to resolve conflicts; the evidence is the much smaller number of conflicts around the world.

Some people lose perspective and become embroiled in conflicts online that might otherwise land them in a jail cell or a psych ward.
I am looking forward to reading his response as to why the violence was justified, why he enjoyed it and in the end what it solved.

Quite often the self-proclaimed "anti-fascists" behave in a much more fascist way and are often more violent.

Whatever happened to a good debate?
I think mental illness can sneak up on some people. Sometimes it gets overlooked because they are often still capable of making quite lucid comments. Unfortunately it usually gets worse before it gets better.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:11 pm

Yet another vote in Parliament today (and more to come, I think). This time, the motion was to wrest day-to-day control of Brexit from Mrs May and give it to Parliament as a whole. The motion was voted down by only two votes. This is a GOOD THING - the nightmare of Parliament forming innumerable subcommittees to determine the make-up of consultative committees each of which would pull in a different direction to any other has been avoided. On the other hand, it would have taken them months to get anywhere, by which time Brexit would have happened regardless.

EDIT: Quickly following that one, Jeremy Corbyn's motion calling for an extension of Article 50 (i.e. the bit under which the UK leaves) has been defeated with a majority of 16. That would appear to do away with anything going beyond March 29th.

EDIT2: Except it doesn't!!!! A third vote was carried with a large majority for Mrs May to ask for an extension to Article 50.
Last edited by Poodle on Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm

Also voted to prevent another referendum.
Why?
It's not like Parliament is able to make a decision.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:33 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 pm
Also voted to prevent another referendum.
Why?
It's not like Parliament is able to make a decision.
You'll have to tell me which motion that was, EM. I thought there was no question of another referendum in any case.

EDIT: No - I found it. There's so much stuff going through at the moment it's hard to keep up.

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:46 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am
Are you a nematode only able to react to external stimulation? If human, then control your emotions. Simple. An exception might be physical pain, but even then many can block that too.
You misunderstood my counter-argument.
Nope. You wrote...
How one feels is "definitely NOT the problem of others"? :? How one feels is down to both their own actions and other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - Brexiteers feel angry because of the way Remainers are behaving and the Remainers feel angry because of the way Brexiteers are behaving.
To correct that to my way of thinking, I would write...

How one feels is definitely NOT the problem of others. How one feels is down to both their own actions and is not dependant upon other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - (Some) Brexiteers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Remainers are behaving and the (some) Remainers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Brexiteers are behaving. Each can both interpret diferently and use their brains to think, overcoming their emotional response, and control the way they feel.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:01 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:46 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am
Are you a nematode only able to react to external stimulation? If human, then control your emotions. Simple. An exception might be physical pain, but even then many can block that too.
You misunderstood my counter-argument.
Nope. You wrote...
How one feels is "definitely NOT the problem of others"? :? How one feels is down to both their own actions and other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - Brexiteers feel angry because of the way Remainers are behaving and the Remainers feel angry because of the way Brexiteers are behaving.
To correct that to my way of thinking, I would write...

How one feels is definitely NOT the problem of others. How one feels is down to both their own actions and is not dependant upon other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - (Some) Brexiteers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Remainers are behaving and the (some) Remainers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Brexiteers are behaving. Each can both interpret diferently and use their brains to think, overcoming their emotional response, and control the way they feel.
Of course it can be the "problem" of others and more often than not is. If someone were holding a knife to my throat and I felt uncomfortable, would that have nothing to do with what that person was doing to me?

If you think that someone's feelings is only down to how he or she feels then you are sadly mistaken.
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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:28 pm

Under May's deal, UK would continue to pay EU tens of billions of pounds every year, while continuing to follow various EU rules, over which UK would no longer have a vote.

No-deal immediately takes away these tens of billions from EU. No wonder Boris Johnson recommended to May that she have Trump handle the Brexit negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:42 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:01 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:46 pm
Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:02 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:14 am
Are you a nematode only able to react to external stimulation? If human, then control your emotions. Simple. An exception might be physical pain, but even then many can block that too.
You misunderstood my counter-argument.
Nope. You wrote...
How one feels is "definitely NOT the problem of others"? :? How one feels is down to both their own actions and other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - Brexiteers feel angry because of the way Remainers are behaving and the Remainers feel angry because of the way Brexiteers are behaving.
To correct that to my way of thinking, I would write...

How one feels is definitely NOT the problem of others. How one feels is down to both their own actions and is not dependant upon other people's actions.

We can use Brexit as an example - (Some) Brexiteers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Remainers are behaving and the (some) Remainers feel angry because of the way they interpret how Brexiteers are behaving. Each can both interpret diferently and use their brains to think, overcoming their emotional response, and control the way they feel.
Of course it can be the "problem" of others and more often than not is. If someone were holding a knife to my throat and I felt uncomfortable, would that have nothing to do with what that person was doing to me?

If you think that someone's feelings is only down to how he or she feels then you are sadly mistaken.
That would fall into that thin exception that I mentioned - physical pain. But if just inches away, and thus no pain - then yes, by all means, control your emotions and use your brain, since your life may depend upon it.

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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:43 pm

MikeN wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:28 pm
Under May's deal, UK would continue to pay EU tens of billions of pounds every year, while continuing to follow various EU rules, over which UK would no longer have a vote.

No-deal immediately takes away these tens of billions from EU. No wonder Boris Johnson recommended to May that she have Trump handle the Brexit negotiations.
That might result in the UK paying those millions to Trump. ;)

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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:46 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:42 pm
That would fall into that thin exception that I mentioned - physical pain. But if just inches away, and thus no pain - then yes, by all means, control your emotions and use your brain, since your life may depend upon it.
Ah, an exception. Right... :roll:

The idea one's feelings are simply based on one's own perceptions and nothing else is absurd.
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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:46 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:42 pm
That would fall into that thin exception that I mentioned - physical pain. But if just inches away, and thus no pain - then yes, by all means, control your emotions and use your brain, since your life may depend upon it.
Ah, an exception. Right... :roll:

The idea one's feelings are simply based on one's own perceptions and nothing else is absurd.
Erm... the idea that one's feelings are the responsibility of others is absurd. BTW - I was distinguishing between physical pain and emotions.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:56 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Erm... the idea that one's feelings are the responsibility of others is absurd. BTW - I was distinguishing between physical pain and emotions.
If in area there are Muslims who wish to implement Sharia Law and the natives of that area feel uncomfortable about it, are the Muslims at any fault?
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Re: Brexit

Post by TJrandom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:13 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:56 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:48 pm
Erm... the idea that one's feelings are the responsibility of others is absurd. BTW - I was distinguishing between physical pain and emotions.
If in area there are Muslims who wish to implement Sharia Law and the natives of that area feel uncomfortable about it, are the Muslims at any fault?
Nope - not at all. These 'natives' can take non-emotional action to use the law, and if in the majority can block the wishes of the miniority. Thowing in 'feel uncomfortable' is simply an appeal to emotion.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:03 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:13 pm
Nope - not at all. These 'natives' can take non-emotional action to use the law, and if in the majority can block the wishes of the miniority. Thowing in 'feel uncomfortable' is simply an appeal to emotion.
You used the appeal to emotion as an excuse, yet at the same time you used the appeal to the majority.

Book an appointment with your local doctor.
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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:28 pm

MikeN wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:28 pm
Under May's deal, UK would continue to pay EU tens of billions of pounds every year, while continuing to follow various EU rules, over which UK would no longer have a vote.

No-deal immediately takes away these tens of billions from EU. No wonder Boris Johnson recommended to May that she have Trump handle the Brexit negotiations.
Sorry, but you have obviously no clue.
The UK made certain financial long-term commitments it will have keep even in a no-deal Brexit.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:31 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:28 pm
Sorry, but you have obviously no clue.
The UK made certain financial long-term commitments it will have keep even in a no-deal Brexit.
Such as?

No-deal is the best option, the UK owes nothing to the EU.
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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:33 pm

No deal Brexit, means no deal. Why would there be long-term commitments? That sounds like a deal.

The third vote might not happen. The speaker can rule the vote is not allowed, if he thinks it's a repeat of something already voted on.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: I enjoyed fighting the National Front and skinheads. They caused the violence. That's why I was arguing against you in the anti holocaust denial subforum.
Goody67 wrote:Well I think that goes to say a lot about your character.
Yes I hate Nazis in the anti-holocaust denial forum. You stick up for skinheads and hate all Muslims.
Goody67 wrote:Both the so-called anti-fascists and the NF skinheads caused the violence.
Really? Name an anti-Fascist rock against racism event that caused violence and explain why skinheads wear steel capped cherry red docs. :lol: :lol:
Skinheads.jpg

Matthew Ellard wrote:Yes it did. You weren't there. I was.
Goody67 wrote:What did it solve?
We got rid of the National Front Skinheads. Did that upset you a lot? :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote:You don't know anything about me. How do you know I was not there or witnessed any of it?
.....because you don't know anything that happened then and you didn't live in London.

Goody67 wrote: I'm right-wing, but I've never been a skinhead.
I was thinking you are the former member Venerable Quantum Woo who was an American, pretending to be an Australian, who spammed his anti-Muslim website, "Citizen Warrior" onto our forum. I now think you are from Cardiff in the UK
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/

Goody67 wrote: I was referring to traditional skinheads who get labeled as "Nazis" or "fascists" because the likes of the NF hijacked the skinhead image
Do you mean skinheads with steel capped cherry red docs, who really love handing out flowers at concerts were "tricked" into joining the National Front. You really are an idiot. :lol: :lol:
Skinheads 2.jpg
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Last edited by Matthew Ellard on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:31 am

landrew wrote: Nothing good ever comes from street-fighting, left to fester long and far enough, nations fall apart,
I will tell the Americans they no longer need their hand guns and the US revolution failed. I will tell the rioting French that their revolution was a failure, I will tell the socialists that fought against the Nazi brownshirts to give up on your advice. [/quote]

You really don't have a clue about history do you?
:lol:

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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:11 am

Whilst in the EU, the UK agreed to funding plans up to 2020. Just quitting doesn't free it of its obligations.
You think that just because a partner quits a firm unilaterally, he/she is free of commitments?

Here is a bit of an explanation:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... vorce-bill

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:47 am

I think the argument is now moot. There's very little chance of NOT being in the EU immediately after March 29th and, if we're still members, then the £39 billion is owed.
In any case, it's merely a Brexiteer argument. The UK government has never actually contested that the £39 billion is owed. But if the UK is to be obliged to pay up as agreed, the EU are surely obliged to provide any benefits accruing up until the same date?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:46 pm

Today, everyone has been talking to someone and everyone else has been talking to someone else. As usual, UK Brexiteers and EU officials are contradicting each other on the legality of this or that, and Donald Tusk (who should REALLY be keeping his mouth tight closed) is asking for an extension of years in the proceedings. UK Remainers have been strangely quiet all day.
Mrs May is working steadily towards another of her Parliamentary votes, this time talking closely with the DUP of Northern Ireland. Something akin to bribery may be involved in those talks, not that I'd know anything about political skullduggery.
There will be no further voting over the weekend, but I see that the Donald Orange has offered us Nirvana on a plate as food for weekend thought.

As nothing is happening at the moment, some of you may be interested in this Wikipedia article which I regard as broadly accurate ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of ... _of_Brexit

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:25 pm

FTL: "Elements of the Leave campaign have been identified as exemplifying "post-truth politics", in which debate is framed largely by appeals to emotion rather than the details of policy or objective factual analysis." //// Thing is, over time the emotions cool off and then still have to deal with the "facts." The link itself is mostly about emotions........like the immigration issues. 95% emotions/5% facts.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:53 pm

Glad you read it, bobbo.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:02 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:01 pm
... If you think that someone's feelings is only down to how he or she feels then you are sadly mistaken.
That is worth saving for posterity.

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Re: Brexit

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 pm

What are Remainers supposed to say?
Like Trump and Republicans in the first 2 years, Brexiteers had all the power, but not really the united will to get Brexit done.
Now they are split, and there is zero reason to assume that further delay will change anything.

There is an obvious solution: call off Brexit, and work within the EU on clearer rules about how leaving the EU would work in practice.
THEN have another referendum - if you feel the need.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 pm

YaButt: You are leaving out all the Feelings:

".....♫...Feelings, nothing more than feelings,
................
Feelings, wo-o-o feelings,
Wo-o-o, feel you again in my arms."

Feelings. The bad ones are worse than the good ones....................ha, ha.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Goody67 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:42 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:23 am
Yes I hate Nazis in the anti-holocaust denial forum. You stick up for skinheads and hate all Muslims.
Who is a Nazi in the anti-holocaust denial forum?

I said that I think it's a shame that the NF hijacked the skinhead image and that traditional skinheads are often stereotyped as things they are not.

Quote me when I said that I hate all Muslims.
Really? Name an anti-Fascist rock against racism event that caused violence and explain why skinheads wear steel capped cherry red docs. :lol: :lol:
Skinheads.jpg
Yeah, really. Both were as bad as each other.

I don't need to name anything. By the way, the violence between "anti-fascists" and the NF skinheads was not just simply restricted to an event by Rock Against Racism, it happened all of the time. The Battle of Lewisham is an example of when both used violence.
We got rid of the National Front Skinheads. Did that upset you a lot? :lol: :lol:
I don't give a monkey's about the NF skinheads. But, clearly "you" did not get rid of the NF skinheads because the BNP and Combat 18 were later formed.

So again, what did the violence solve?
.....because you don't know anything that happened then and you didn't live in London.
How do you know?
I was thinking you are the former member Venerable Quantum Woo who was an American, pretending to be an Australian, who spammed his anti-Muslim website, "Citizen Warrior" onto our forum. I now think you are from Cardiff in the UK
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/
The ramblings of a paranoid madman.
Do you mean skinheads with steel capped cherry red docs, who really love handing out flowers at concerts were "tricked" into joining the National Front. You really are an idiot. :lol: :lol:
Skinheads 2.jpg
I was referring to traditional skinheads, you know like the members of Slade were once upon a time.

You've already exposed that the so-called "anti-fascists" back in the day were not exactly peaceful members of society either. The violence of the left has been well established for a long time. The left-wing mobs and the right-wing mobs were and are as bad as each other.

Feel free to continue name calling me, you are just letting everyone reading the thread see what you are like as a person.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:10 pm
What are Remainers supposed to say? ...
To be frank, EM, they're supposed to say "Oh - we lost a referendum on the very subject".
Democracy has its downs and its ups. It's still democracy. It was a perfectly legal ask of the general public and the result was leave. Now, according to every democratic principle I know, we should be leaving.
Democracy and all that means is a hundred times more important than EU membership.
Last edited by Poodle on Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:02 pm

What about the democratic principle of changing your mind?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm

Which democratic principle is that, Bobbo? Last I looked, democracy was about the known expression of the members of that democracy. Are you proposing that democracies should hold referenda every day? Or general elections every day? Or Presidential elections?

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:10 pm

No Poodle.....just its rather silly to pose that "democracy" demands that referendums settle an issue. As stated before right on point: whatever the referendum system/procedures is, it can be used again whenever according to its terms.

Thats an entirely different issue from the "fact"/ (impluse???) that when a REF is passed with an excess of misinformation, fraud, ignorance, Russian Money, racist inciters and the voting public finally wakes up to that fact, maybe the REF should be seen as ineffective on its face and even voided? THEN....a second REF is just a second shot at whatever your own fully matured position would be.

You voted Remain, but have become Brexit. How would you rate the strength/commitment to either position?.............so.........your animus to a second REF lacks foundation.

Good thing, life goes on regardless? I wonder what a REF would hold re "Is Life worth Living?"=====>and give it a vote, to what end????
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Re: Brexit

Post by MikeN » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:25 pm

Bobbo, if they changed their mind, then they should first leave, then hold a referendum if they want to join the EU.
It shouldn't be, 'The referendum vote matters if we agree with the result, otherwise we will have another referendum.'

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Re: Brexit

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:28 pm

Mike: if a REF can be held whenever a petition for it signed by X number of whatever is submitted to the House of Commons ((whatever the procedure is)).....then THAT IS THE RULE. anything after that is manipulation for a desired outcome.
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